Does Wonder Woman secretly hate Superman?

[MichaelCoughlin]

OK, I preface this by saying I barely no shit about Wonder Woman. Pretty much I know that she's all about woman power, and believes in women not being victimized, etc...

So, I figure that at her worst, Wonder Woman believes that women are better than men. But I'll give her the benefit of the doubt (hey, she has saved the world a few times) and say that she believes no man is better than a woman, and that all men and women are equal.

Then there's Superman. Is Superman a constant reminder to Wonder Woman that no matter how good she is, there will ALWAYS be a man who is better than she (and every woman)? I mean, no matter what, she can't beat Supes. No one can. He's freaking Superman!

note: I know the logical retort is, "No, Superman isn't a man, he's an alien." I don't think that matters. Wonder Woman isn't a human being really, she's a clone or something of an island inhabited only by women. If she's a woman, he's a man.

So, in a weird way, does Wonder Woman secretly resent the fact that there will always be a man who's superior to her?

btw, PLEASE don't turn this into a "men are better than women" thread or anything.

[JK Parkin]

Originally posted by MichaelCoughlin
note: I know the logical retort is, "No, Superman isn't a man, he's an alien." I don't think that matters. Wonder Woman isn't a human being really, she's a clone or something of an island inhabited only by women. If she's a woman, he's a man.

Dude, you have no freakin' idea who Wonder Woman is, do you? A clone? WTF?

You're making a lot of assumptions about how Wonder Woman views the world, like she's got some kind of hang-up about men and Superman in general. She faces down gods on a daily basis; I doubt she even thinks of Superman like that. Besides, he doesn't do magic, and she's a magical being ... I'm sure there's some kind of loophole a writer could exploit to have her take him down.

[JK Parkin]

Here's some info on Wonder Woman, Michael, and where she came from, from seanbaby.com:

Origin: Her mother, Hippolyta, made her out of clay, and begged the goddess Aphrodite to make her a real girl. If you've read or seen Pinnochio, it's the same puppet shit. I don't have any trouble believing a clay girl can come to life; I've seen Mannequin 218 times, and I still get presumptuous enough afterwards to make out with my Rock 'em Sock 'em Robots. What I have trouble believing is Wonder Woman's mom. I don't buy that any girl whose name starts with "Hippo" could make it through childhood without ending up in prison.

More here: http://www.seanbaby.com/superfriends/wonderwoman.htm

[tralfaz]

Wonder Woman secretly loves Superman

[Elithraldor]

What is the deal with Superman being weak against magic? I thought the only thing that could take him down was kryptonite?

[The_Adventurer]

Originally posted by Elithraldor
What is the deal with Superman being weak against magic? I thought the only thing that could take him down was kryptonite?

Magic affects all orgainic creatures the same way. Superman isn't Weak to magic like he is weak to Kryptonite, he just affected the same way the rest of us are.

Ex: If Superman gets wacked in the head by Thor's Magic Hammer, if feel just like if you or I got wacked in the head by Thor's Hammer

[tralfaz]

Originally posted by Elithraldor
What is the deal with Superman being weak against magic? I thought the only thing that could take him down was kryptonite?

writers suck so bad these days that they needed to make him weaker to make him interesting. when it really comes down to it, everyone is weak to magic to a certain degree

[YDLM]

I think Mike has a point, I think there should always be a competitive streak between the two. In the cartoon, they do kind of play on that. I still think she should be able to take him down simply because she should be a far better fighter.

[Caramuru]

Michael, I'm assuming - and correct me if I'm wrong - that you might be equating WW with being a feminist icon and therefore arriving at that conclusion, right? The problem with that the way I see it is that, appart from that not being necessarily what the character is about, is that you seem to have an idea of feminism that is both fringe and outdated. Yes, there are those groups that consider themselves feminists and go so far as to have ritual penis degradation rituals. However, that is a "faction" of feminism that once was loud enough to create an impression of the movement that unfortunately became cliche. I would say that they are even less representative of what feminism is nowadays than, say, Liberation Theology in the American Catholic community. Feminism is not about hating men or the condemnation of overt female sexuality. If that sounds like an idea of feminism you're familiar with, I'd recomend reading Camille Paglia. You'd be surprised.

[MichaelCoughlin]

Originally posted by Caramuru
Michael, I'm assuming - and correct me if I'm wrong - that you might be equating WW with being a feminist icon and therefore arriving at that conclusion, right? The problem with that the way I see it is that, appart from that not being necessarily what the character is about, is that you seem to have an idea of feminism that is both fringe and outdated. Yes, there are those groups that consider themselves feminists and go so far as to have ritual penis degradation rituals. However, that is a "faction" of feminism that once was loud enough to create an impression of the movement that unfortunately became cliche. I would say that they are even less representative of what feminism is nowadays than, say, Liberation Theology in the American Catholic community. Feminism is not about hating men or the condemnation of overt female sexuality. If that sounds like an idea of feminism you're familiar with, I'd recomend reading Camille Paglia. You'd be surprised.

I said at her worst, that's what she'd be like, but i gave her the benefit of the doubt (because of the world saving thing) and figured she'd be a modern feminist who believes that all men and women are equal. I don't mean that she hates all men, just that deep deep down she's got some resentment towards him. I'd say that there might be a little of the "old school feminism" in her. Just a bit. a TINY TINY bit. TINIEST bit possible.

[Lukather]

I think that it's an interesting teory.

[cncoyle]

Diana, like any of the Amazons, is a warrior first and foremost. She respects Superman for his sheer power as a warrior, because she knows he is slightly more powerful than her. So, as a warrior, she has admiration for him.

As a diplomat, she admires Superman's strength of character that shows strength, leadership and compassion.

It is the combination of respect for his power and her admiration of his character that makes her love Superman. (I also feel there's a small part of her that likes him even more because he slighted her for Lois, but that's just me.)

[flutegirlrockz]

Originally posted by The_Adventurer
Magic affects all orgainic creatures the same way. Superman isn't Weak to magic like he is weak to Kryptonite, he just affected the same way the rest of us are.

Ex: If Superman gets wacked in the head by Thor's Magic Hammer, if feel just like if you or I got wacked in the head by Thor's Hammer

What if Wonderman hit Superman, getting hit by Wonderman is like getting by Thor's hammer but Wondermans powers are science based. Anyway regarding the Superman Wonder Woman question Superman may be physically superior but so is a normal man compared to a normal woman, this dosn't mean that men are superior to women.

[flutegirlrockz]

Originally posted by The_Adventurer
Magic affects all orgainic creatures the same way. Superman isn't Weak to magic like he is weak to Kryptonite, he just affected the same way the rest of us are.

Ex: If Superman gets wacked in the head by Thor's Magic Hammer, if feel just like if you or I got wacked in the head by Thor's Hammer

If you or I get hit in the head by Thor's hammer we die.

[Aquaboy]

Wonder Woman is all about the love! her mission is to spread peace even though she has to use her fists sometimes. BTW Miss Diana has a thing for black guys. look at her last boyfriend who lasted all of 6 or 7 issues i think trevor barnes

[Caramuru]

You know something weird? Of all the Paul Dini/Alex Ross works on the DC icons (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and Captain Marvel), the WW GN was the only one in which one of these characters had to look for inspiration outside of their own "mythologies." At one point in the book, Diana is at a loss as to how to work more effectively and carry out her message so she calls Superman for advice. I think that paid WW a disservice to present her as the only one of those heroes who needed help with fundamental questions about her mission, and it's kind of ironic that Dini has her advice come from Superman, of all people, who's the biggest male super-hero icon.

[cncoyle]

Originally posted by Aquaboy
Wonder Woman is all about the love! her mission is to spread peace even though she has to use her fists sometimes. BTW Miss Diana has a thing for black guys. look at her last boyfriend who lasted all of 6 or 7 issues i think trevor barnes

Nah, he was around for maybe 12 issues.

Y'know, I really liked Trevor. It's too bad that DC is afraid to tie Diana up with somebody. I would have liked to see more of their relationship. Would Trevor have been jealous of Superman the way Lois is jealous of Diana? Did you see the episode of Frasier where he's dating a celebrity lawyer and ends up hanging around with the trophy wives? That would be a similar situation for Trevor:
"Sorry, Trev, but the JLA beacon is going off. Can you finish dinner without me? I'll be back right after we defeat Starro. Love ya!"

[MichaelCoughlin]

Originally posted by cncoyle
Diana, like any of the Amazons, is a warrior first and foremost. She respects Superman for his sheer power as a warrior, because she knows he is slightly more powerful than her. So, as a warrior, she has admiration for him.

This right here is all the proof I need. A fighter (or warrior in this case) may have a great deal of respect for someone more powerful than them, or someone who can beat them, I fully admit this. However, there is no true fighter (and I say this from 100% personal experience, and can say that every fighter, yes, EVERY fighter, I've known feels the same way) who doesn't deep down think, "I'm better, I KNOW I can beat him." It's part of being a fighter, the little ego that says, "I'm the best." No one gets into a fight (sanctioned fight, not some dumbass street fight) unless they think they can win.

[Anaximander]

Originally posted by flutegirlrockz
If you or I get hit in the head by Thor's hammer we die.

Thor's not real. Nor is his hammer. We would be just fine.

[Skyldt]

Originally posted by tralfaz
Wonder Woman secretly loves Superman

well, they did get married or something in Kingdom Come...

[Caramuru]

Originally posted by MichaelCoughlin
This right here is all the proof I need. A fighter (or warrior in this case) may have a great deal of respect for someone more powerful than them, or someone who can beat them, I fully admit this. However, there is no true fighter (and I say this from 100% personal experience, and can say that every fighter, yes, EVERY fighter, I've known feels the same way) who doesn't deep down think, "I'm better, I KNOW I can beat him." It's part of being a fighter, the little ego that says, "I'm the best." No one gets into a fight (sanctioned fight, not some dumbass street fight) unless they think they can win.

I would make a little semantic differentiation between "warrior" and "fighter" on this one. I think that maybe you're right about how a fighter thinks because they fight for competition. Warriors, however, must know how to fight with their allies in cooperation. If we think of soldiers, for example, I don't think most of them are thinking about being better than their brothers-in-arms. I also don't think most of them are in it for personal glory.

[NewFun#6]

Originally posted by Anaximander
Thor's not real.

Where did you hear this?

[drdash]

ww doesn't hate superman. i think she's in love with supes. i mean look at alot of the recent stories. like OWAW and that issue where they're stuck together for 1,000 years. if kal-el had given the word she'd have been mounting him quicker than an avalanche.

ciao
drdash

[cncoyle]

Originally posted by drdash
if kal-el had given the word she'd have been mounting him quicker than an avalanche.

While I agree with you, I think this analogy would have been effective if you had used either "Cootie Brown", "witch's tit", "whore in church on Sunday" or "rat's ass".

[IvCNuB4]

She's just mad at him because he got Lois before she did !