REAL STUFF WITH DENNIS EICHHORN

[MattBrady]

by Daniel Robert Epstein

One of the most significant autobiographical comic books writers is back. Dennis Eichhorn’s Real Stuff has finally been collected into a trade paperback. Even though in the 1980’s it was first published in serial form by Fantagraphics, now a new company, Swifty Morales Press, is releasing the first collection of his work.

His stories aren’t autobiographical like Joe Matt, Harvey Pekar or Jason Marcy. They are more like the stories you hear if you stay at the bar until closing time. Most of the stories in the first volume of Real Stuff are quite violent. You can read about the time Eichhorn kicked a guy so hard in the head that his eyeball fell out and many more stories even crazier than that. Eichhorn’s stories are illustrated by comic legends like Peter Kuper, Peter Bagge, Jim Woodring, David Collier, Dave Cooper and many more.

Eichhorn has been called the Ken Kesey of Idaho and after talking to him I know why. He’s a great story teller. Over 30 years separate us but this is a guy I could imagine sitting down and drinking a beer with.

Newsarama: Despite the violence inherent in many of the Real Stuff stories, I saw that you did children’s books for a long time.

Dennis Eichhorn: Yeah, for about 15 years I wrote children’s books and wrote for a kid’s magazine. They used the magazine in schools for remedial reading classes. It was a good job and it kept me going.

NRAMA: You weren’t doing it freelance though?

DE: No, this publisher discovered me. I was working at The Rocket, which was a monthly entertainment tabloid in Seattle. They just happened to call while I was there, looking for someone who could write at a fourth grade level. I said, “Yeah - that’s the American median reading age.” I made twenty to thirty thousand bucks a year off of it for 15 years. I could do other stuff because it didn’t take off a whole lot of my time.

NRAMA: When did that stop?

DE: The early ‘90s. The guy sold the company to someone in New York. They wanted someone they could browbeat in person, so I was out.

NRAMA: So is what is in the new trade paperback all of the Real Stuff stories – it’s not all of them, right?

DE: No they’re about a fifth of them.

NRAMA: When did you get started in comics as a whole?

DE: I started doing the comics in 1980’s by accident and I’ve been doing them on and off ever since.

NRAMA: Did you self publish them at first?

DE: No when I was working at The Rocket, we had an art contest and the winners of the contest came to Seattle. I got to talking with them, telling them stories and one of them illustrated a story. That’s how it got started. It was totally by accident. I had no intention of doing that kind of stuff. I just had these stories I tell people.

NRAMA: So you’re just a guy who tells good stories and someone decided to illustrate them?

DE: That’s exactly it. We were just swapping lies and somebody just said “That would be a great cartoon.”

NRAMA: But it’s not exactly flattering though – I mean, in the trade paperback you come off like a sociopath.

DE: That book is heavily weighted towards the violence end of the spectrum.

NRAMA: Is there a special reason for that?

DE: I didn’t pick the stories that appeared in it. The publisher did. I had a little bit to say about them. I didn’t pick up on how many of them were the violent ones. After it came out I realized that the average person would think I’m a violent guy.

NRAMA: You do seem really psychotic if all one had to go on was your stories from Real Stuff.

DE: If I’m psychotic I have to beg ignorance [laughs].

NRAMA: It probably doesn’t help with your portrayal in Real Stuff that you’re a big guy…

DE: Well they drew kind of big too. I’m only six feet tall but I played football so I weighed 240 pounds.

NRAMA: People always want to fight a big guy…

DE: I know. It used to be that I would go into a bar, a fight would start and I would be in it. I wouldn’t even pick a fight. It would happen a lot because I was drinking too. But you get to a certain age and that kind of quits. I guess you stop going to that kind of bar.

NRAMA: How did you start getting published by Fantagraphics?

DE: Fantagraphics relocated to Seattle from California and several of the artists went – guys like like Peter Bagge, Jim Woodring and Roberta Gregory. I met them socially and Jim Woodring saw a couple of my stories that were illustrated so he told me to pitch it to Fantagraphics. I met the guys that ran Fantagraphics and they liked it. They assigned some more stories, and Bagge did a cover. After we got the idea for the comic book I started asking those guys. By the time we did two or three issues I had people contacting me all the time offering to do stories. Some were fledging and others were well known. It got to where whenever I would meet somebody that was a cartoonist the subject would come up and about half the time they’d say they would want to do it.

NRAMA: It was weird seeing Gary Dumm illustrate your stories because he’s worked so much with Harvey Pekar. So to see him do your violent autobiographical stuff is such a change…

Did you know of autobiographical comics when you started?

DE: Not really. I’d read Robert Crumb and Frank Stack. There weren’t a lot. I also read Crumb’s Pekar stories. We used to run Pekar’s stuff in The Rocket. There weren’t a lot of people doing it then especially compared to now.

NRAMA: Speaking of your relationships in the early days of Real Stuff, why isn’t the new trade paperback being published by Fantagraphics?

DE: After I did 20 issues of Real Stuff over two years we got tired of working with each other.

NRAMA: What does that mean?

DE: Well, at one point we got into an argument over censorship. One of my stories had a reference in it to McDonald’s hamburgers and they wanted it taken out. It pissed me off and we got into a stupid argument which kind of soured our relationship. I came to find out years later that Fantagraphics had been sued twice by other people and it was really expensive for them. So one thing they didn’t want is another lawsuit.

I did find out later on that National Lampoon had ridiculed McDonald’s and used their logo even and nothing had ever come of it. So I don’t think they would have done anything with regards to my comic. I had to go along with Fantagraphics but it was the only time they censored me and I got pissed off about.

NRAMA: Is that something you regret now?

DE: In a way. I wish now I would have known about National Lampoon because I could have pointed it out. There were other things too though. I’m beginning to think I’m just an asshole because I quarreled with Fantagraphics then I went to work with Loompanics and quarreled with them. I think there is a pattern developing here [laughs]. Censorship really pisses me off even if it isn’t worth getting pissed off about.

NRAMA: How’d you get hooked up with Swifty Morales Press?

DE: Well the guy that owns it, Caleb Wright, contacted me and he’s very nice. He wanted to start a comic imprint and knew my work. He went to Fantagraphics and they agreed to sell him the original negatives of all the artwork.

NRAMA: Don’t you own your work?

DE: That’s different than the negatives. By allowing him to use the negatives he didn’t have to round up the original artwork. Shooting it from the comics would degrade it even more. Caleb did a hell of a job of reshooting it. For him it’s a good way to meet a lot of artists because he’s dealt with almost four dozen artists in the process. Plus the book he put out is a nice quality book with high production values. One thing I like about it is that it’s sewn like a cookbook so you can leave it open and it doesn’t break the binding. That’s the kind of thing no other comic maker I know would do.

NRAMA: One of the artists you work with so well is Peter Bagge. It almost seems like you were writing for him at times.

DE: At the time we were good friends and he has a good sense of humor.

NRAMA: Are you and him not in contact anymore?

DE: I haven’t talked to him for quite a while.

NRAMA: Was there any bad blood?

DE: I think we got into an argument once but I think he’s a nice guy. I can’t even remember what we got into an argument about. Some of the cartoonists are a little bit sensitive. I’m not saying this about Bagge but some of them are really socially maladjusted. You go to a cartoonists party and about half of them are sitting there reading comic books, not even talking and it’s perfectly acceptable. It’s perfectly acceptable to be withdrawn. It’s a different world. They’re not drinking cocktails and making small talk. A lot of them are not getting paid what their worth and it takes its toll on them.

NRAMA: Have you ever met Harvey Pekar?

DE: I’ve met and socialized with him.

NRAMA: Does his wife think you stole his style?

DE: I hope not.

NRAMA: I’ve read she can be sensitive about that.

DE: She can really be something else. To me it’s more like he’s one kind of a writer and I’m another. The only thing we got in common is that we use the medium of comics. It’s kind of like being filmmakers in a real primitive way. His stuff is more introspective because he’s a real intellectual. That’s one thing the movie didn’t really point out.

NRAMA: I actually talked about that with Paul Giamatti that the movie left out the fact that he is an intellectual. Giamatti said that if your character is reading a book in a movie that makes him an intellectual.

DE: That’s right. Harvey’s idea of good time is being able to read a book for a couple of hours. He used to write articles about books for this paper I published called The Northwest Extra. He’s one of the most knowledgeable writers I’ve ever met and that’s one aspect the movie doesn’t show. If Joyce [Brabner] was ever pissed off about that then she has no reason to be pissed off now. They’ve made more dough off the genre than anyone.

NRAMA: There have been articles saying that he regrets not selling the property to Rob Schneider [to play Harvey] for more money.

DE: [laughs] Fuck. I can’t believe that. I bet he made half a million off that movie.

NRAMA: Well, he’ll never be happy no matter what.

DE: I was kind of worried about that because many of his stories deal with him not being appreciated. Now he is.

NRAMA: Have you thought about sending the new trade paperback to Hollywood people?

DE: I don’t have an agent and I don’t really know many Hollywood people. That’s a good idea - maybe I’ll go get an agent.

NRAMA: They’re reading them in Hollywood…or at least looking at the pictures.

DE: That’s all I can ask.

Eve Gilbert’s book, Tits, Ass and Real Estate, would be a good movie. It’s fucking incredible. She had a real sordid life and real dark sense of humor. She’s not the greatest cartoonist in the world but she gets her point across.

NRAMA: True. Stream of consciousness time - here’s some stuff I found about you. Were you the ringmaster of the Blue Mountain Festivals?

DE: Yeah it was in Northern Idaho and every year in Idaho they would have a free outdoor music festival in their arboretum. I was kind of the promoter and operator of it. After a year or two it got a format to it and we’d get bands to play for free and get money for a sound system and all that shit. It went on for about four or five years then I moved away and it died.

NRAMA: How old are you?

DE: I’m going to be 58 this year.

NRAMA: I read your life really changed when you found acid…

DE: It actually did. Like a lot of other people it mellowed me out and made me think more. I didn’t want to be violent. I think it gives you a little more empathy.

NRAMA: What was it like looking over the stories?

DE: It was like rediscovering them. Most of these were stories I would tell people from time to time. Once I would put it in cartoon form I would forget about it. It’s like I flushed it.

NRAMA: Did you ever tell the story again and look at the comic and find you told it wrong?

DE: Yeah a little bit. You forget details as you age as well. As a writer you want to write things down as soon as you can because even if a few days go by you can forget things. I’ll read some of these stories and be amazed at what I was able to remember.

NRAMA: I read you went to prison for a short time.

DE: Yeah that story didn’t make it into the book but I got busted for delivery of a controlled substance, LSD and marijuana. I had to go to prison for four months. It was a three year sentence but in Idaho back then you would go in for 120 days then they would reevaluate you. So I was on probation for a couple of years. I wish the prison stories got in there.

NRAMA: What’s prison like?

DE: My very first day there I was standing on the dinner line and this guy walked up and knifed the guy in front of me and killed him. It was like five fucking feet away and of course nobody saw a thing. I was in for a week, then there was a riot and the National Guard came in. I was glad to get the hell out of there. I didn’t belong there but about 75 percent of the people didn’t deserve to be in there.

NRAMA: Someone called you Idaho’s Ken Kesey.

DE: Yeah I’ve been called that because of the LSD and the festivals thing.

NRAMA: That’s a great compliment though.

DE: Definitely! There was a time when Charles Bukowski came across my comics and he sent me a letter saying it was good. Then he sent me some poetry and I published that. We corresponded for a bit. I got a postcard from him saying “Welcome to the club.” I published 20 of his poems and whenever that happened I sent him $20 cash. He said he would go to the racetrack and bet it.

NRAMA: Is it true you were adopted?

DE: Yes I was born in a women’s prison in Deer Lodge Montana.

NRAMA: Did you ever meet your mom?

DE: No I was adopted when I was just a few days old then I was reared in Boise Idaho. But I didn’t know I was adopted until I was in my 30’s.

NRAMA: Do you still have stories, or are you tapped out of your own Real Stuff?

DE: Still have them. Here’s a story that I want David Collier to illustrate. One day I took some LSD with my wife and we were sitting around the house. We were just starting to get off when the phone rang. It was my adopted mom and she says “I’ve wanted to tell you this for years. You were born in a women’s prison in Deer Lodge Montana and we adopted you.” She told me what my real name was. I told her thanks and we should talk about it sometime. My wife comes back into the room and I said, “That is good LSD. I just hallucinated that my mother called and said I was adopted.”

Get the trade paperback for Real Stuff at: http://www.swiftymorales.com/

[Raphe Cheli]

Boy, I really loved Eichhorn's stuff (both Real Stuff and Real Smut). I know some people compared his work to Harvey Pekar, but I've always found Pekar's stuff to be very static -- a lot of thinking and talking -- and Eichhorn's stuff was very active -- moving, running, singing, etc. Since I have all the comics, I'm debating on whether or not to get the book, but I'm glad to see that this stuff is coming back into print.

I would've expected more out of an interview with him, though, considering the stories that he's told and the ones that he probably hasn't. (Oh, and it needs a good proofreading, too.)

[gOgIver]

Charles Bukowski reading comics. COOL!

[Rockin' Rich]

Too bad Jemas isn't with Marvel any more. I could easily see Eichhorn doing a Wolverine mini.... Oh well.

[scram]

Thanks to our pal Caleb from Swifty Morales Press, for a limited time we have free copies of Dennis P. Eichhorn's beautifully printed anthology REAL STUFF as a premium for new or renewing subscribers to Scram, a journal of unpopular culture.

REAL STUFF is a collection of true life adventures from the bigger-than-life reality of longtime Scram contributor Dennis Eichhorn, in collaboration with Triangle Slash, Rick Altergott, Peter Bagge, Jim Blanchard, Ariel Bordeaux, Rupert Bottenberg, Chester Brown, Ivan Brunetti, Charles Burns, Howard Chackowicz, David Chelsea, Dan Clowes, David Collier, Dave Cooper, Robert L. Crabb, Lloyd Dangle, Julie Doucet, Michael Dougan, Gary Dumm, B.N. Duncan, Gene Fama, Mary Fleener, Drew Friedman, Renee French, Roberta Gregory, Sam Henderson, Jaime Hernandez, Gilbert Hernandez, Sean M. Hurley, Gerald Jablonski, Peter Kuper, Carol Lay, Jason Lutes, Kent Myers, Bernard Edward Mireault, Carel Moiseiwitsch, Terry Moore, Pat Moriarty, Joe Sacco, Seth, Leslie Sternbergh, Carol Swain, Holly Tuttle, Colin Upton, J.R. Williams, Jim Woodring, Joe Zabel and Mark Zingarelli.

Coming soon: Scram #21, the Swamp Issue, cover by Lark Pien. Past cover artists include Andrice Arp, Bartley Johnson, Tom Neely, Daniel Clowes, Steven Weissman, Gene Sculatti, Doug Allen, Mari Kono, Dave Cooper, Christine Shields, Tim Hensley and Peter Bagge.

For info about Scram and subscription rates, please visit http://www.scrammagazine.com