VENOM GETS ULTIMATIZED

[Alex Segura Jr.]

<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/Marvel/ULT_SM_36.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/Marvel/ULT_SM_36_t.jpg" width="175" height="262" border="0" alt="ULtimate Spider-Man no. 36" align="right"></a>The words themselves were enough to make fanboys cringe. The idea seemed farfetched and comical. But the unthinkable just might be happening over at Marvel Comics' Ultimate line. That's right folks, say it with us: Ultimate Venom. Now, what could possess critical darling Brian Michael Bendis to re-create one of Spidey's most dangerous and oftentimes maligned rogues? Is there going to be an Ultimate Secret War? Newsarama sat down with the Ultimate Spider-Man scribe to get some answers.

Like many other, Bendis felt there was no place for Venom in the more streamlined Ultimate universe.

"I think I was quite clear in my desire not to do Venom. But what I should have said is I was not interested in doing a cosmic secret wars gobbity goo nonsense story," Bendis said. "Spidey shouldn't be anywhere near stories like that, in my book. Ultimate Spider-Man is a down-to-earth, real world teen drama superhero book, our Venom spawns from that."

But when the idea to revamp Venom arose, Bendis knew the only way to handle the character would be by making him grow out of the world of Ultimate Spider-Man, as opposed to being a byproduct of a company-wide crossover involving alien worlds, symbiotes and hundreds of other characters.

"Well, this Venom origin will pour right out of the tone and world that we have established in the ultimate version of Spider-Man and that will make it very different from the original on almost every level," Bendis said.

Although for all intents and purposes the Eddie Brock Venom creature has become a parody of himself (Lethal Protector, anyone?), during his early appearances some would argue he was Spider-Man's deadliest foe. His opposite number. While not shooting for that, Bendis hopes that by making the character more interesting, he can give him a bit more lasting power.

"I am not interested in making him 'the deadliest foe' but I am going to make him an interesting, maybe the most interesting foe," Bendis explained. "The idea here is to create something that is both physically and psychologically threatening, I think we got it with this interpretation."

As for what went wrong with the original Venom, Bendis says the character was more a product of his time. Namely, the overly gimmick-y nineties.

"I could write a book with that I think is wrong with some comics characters," Bendis said. "But in this case, I think its just a casualty of what I like to call the shallow nineties. The nineties will probably go down as the shallowest period for mainstream comics. Not all mainstream comics, but the pond got pretty shallow there for awhile."

While details are scarce, Bendis notes that Ultimate Venom will have a big impact on Ultimate Spidey's life.

"It's hard to answer without giving stuff away., but as the marvel preview of Ultimate Spider-Man #33 hints, Venom's creation will be tied to who Peter's family was and where they are now," Bendis said. "This is a young man's journey to discover who his father is."

When it comes to recreating old characters for the Ultimate Universe, Bendis can't get enough.

"It's a pretty fun part of the job, its gleefully fanboyish," Bendis said. "You take the parts you like, discard the things that you think suck, or the things that convolute the core idea of the character, and you build from there."

As with any new character, the point is to tell a good story, Bendis said.

"I think the interesting thing about the story, is it is about peter the frustrated teenage orphan looking for a connection to something he thought he lost forever," Bendis said.

Ultimate Venom will debut in Ultimate Spider-Man #33 which will be the first part of a six issue story and include a seventh 'aftermath' issue. All issues will ship bi-weekly.

[paulski]

Pretty good assessment by Bendis of the deterioration of mainstream Venom over time.

When he first appeared in Amazing Spider-Man #298-300, he was a genuinely fascinating character. He beat the sh!t out of Black cat, scared Mary Jane half to death and probably should have knocked off Spidey then and there. But it only took about 2 or 3 years to turn one of the best new characters into a wasted opportunity. And of course, making him an anti-hero was just plain dumb.

Hmmm. I haven't picked up an Ultimate Spidey for a while but I might have a look at the trade when it comes out. This could be interesting.

And yeah, first post. :p

[BuRn]

Hey, if bendis is writing it, I'll buy it. He hasn't done any wrong to the spider-man mythos so far, and I don't see him doing it anytime soon. Just wished he wasn't gonna touch on his parent's past and vemon so fast on in his book, I just feel that he's been been pressured into putting vemon in the book just because Joe Q and Bill Jemas told him to anyway... but then again...... it's just me
:rolleyes:

and yea, second post~

[Olsmobile]

I grew up reading comics in the early nineties and I thought all the Venom stuff was pretty cool. I think it somwhere around the mid 90's where everything went to shit, and got pretty moronic.

[AllAboutMe]

Just don't make this Venom into the ridiculous giant-tongued, slobbering viilain who always was ten times stronger than Spidey but could never beat him. What a pile of dung he turned into.

[fournwah]

I agree with Bendis' thoughts on comics in the nineties. 90% of them were pure crap. A few of them like Incredible Hulk and Flash were good, but titles like Avengers, X-Men, Spider-man, Superman will filled with complete garbage. It wasn't until the late 90's that these books actually became readable again.

[PopCultureKid]

There was a while in the mid 90's that I read NO Marvel and just a couple DC. It was to the point that I didn't even think I'd miss them. The improvement has been amazing.

Other characters that were as one dimentional and exploited as Venom during the 90's were (with apologies to fans of these characters): Ghost Rider, Lobo, Wolverine, Punisher, All Youngblood (actually all Liefeld), Bane, Azreal, pre-Moore and Ellis WildC.A.T.S and Stormwatch and that just starts the list.

[Beyerstein]

When they were first introducing Ultimate, Marvel said something like "new readers will become curios about the real Marvel Universe and villains like Venom"

[Hunter]

[quote]Originally posted by AllAboutMe:
<strong>Just don't make this Venom into the ridiculous giant-tongued, slobbering viilain who always was ten times stronger than Spidey but could never beat him. What a pile of dung he turned into.</strong><hr></blockquote>

heh -- I sometimes think I'm the only one who ever realizes that Todd McFarlane never drew him with the big freaking tongue hanging out of his mouth (and ALWAYS hanging out of his mouth -- doesn't he bite it on a regular basis?). Glad to see that someone else is annoyed by that.

[KingStalin]

Cheers for the beginning of more and more Venom, Jenkins apparently is doing a 5 part story with himn when Spectacular gets launched. Good writers like bendis and him are probablly the only ones who can get him right and make the vman scary again. But you guys bring up a good question. When did he start sticking that bloody tongue around all the time? Was it an artisy or writer who started it?

[Aaron]

God almighty, does it REALLY take seven months to tell a good Venom story? COME ON! Six months of final splash pages where Venom hovers over the near lifeless body of Peter making you wonder (not) if he'll live to see the next issue.

I love USM, but Bendis has got to be the most glacial storyteller out there.

Aaron

[SpaceDog]

The preview pages on Marvel.com intrigue me. I've been running hot and cold on Ultimate Spider-man lately. Hopefully the book will be as good as everyone says it is.

[Starsky_Hutch76]

[quote]Originally posted by Hunter:
<strong>

heh -- I sometimes think I'm the only one who ever realizes that Todd McFarlane never drew him with the big freaking tongue hanging out of his mouth (and ALWAYS hanging out of his mouth -- doesn't he bite it on a regular basis?). Glad to see that someone else is annoyed by that.</strong><hr></blockquote>


You know, I bet he sounded pretty goofy when he talked!
:eek: :D

[BriRi]

If Bendis treats Venom even half as well as he treated Kraven then I am most definitely there.

[Brian Garside]

[quote]Originally posted by AllAboutMe:
<strong>Just don't make this Venom into the ridiculous giant-tongued, slobbering viilain who always was ten times stronger than Spidey but could never beat him. What a pile of dung he turned into.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I've always thought that Spidey's villians should be stronger than him, they can be smarter than him, they can even be funnier than him, the thing that sperates Peter Parker from any of his bad guys is that he's sane.

I think Will Graham said it best to Hannibal Lechter in Red Dragon. When Lechter challenged Graham, saying that Graham thought he was smarter than Lechter, Graham's explanation as to why he was able to catch him was a simple; "You had disadvantages...you're insane."

[chubbyp]

[quote]Originally posted by Aaron:
<strong>God almighty, does it REALLY take seven months to tell a good Venom story? COME ON! </strong><hr></blockquote>

I take it you missed the part where it says all the issues will come out bi-weekly? And it does take 7 issues to nicely fill a rounded graphic novel which is what Bendis designs his arcs for.

Nice to see yet again fanboys judge stories without even reading a single issue! :rolleyes:

[Aaron Weisbrod]

I trust Bendis enough to remain optimistic about the "new" Venom...

Bring it on!

Curious,
Aaron Weisbrod

[Grendel Prime]

Don't get me wrong: I think Bendis is the shiznit. I bow down at the alter of Bendis. If he writes it, then I read it. And 99 times out of 100, I end up loving it.

But I just want to take a moment to give some respect where respect is due. Mark Bagley. Since he jumped from New Warriors to Amazing (how many years ago was that?), Bagley has become the definitive Spider-Man artist. That's a longevity you don't see almost anywhere these days. And yet his work doesn't show the slightest tedium or routine. If anything it is more dynamic and fresh than ever.

All without a line of a gazillion toys, a crappy film, or million-dollar baseballs.

[disrespectfultodirt]

The exaggerated, tongue hanging, crazy eyes Venom started during Erik Larsen's run on ASM. In the 90's, I remember reading a bit on how he thought the character was ridiculous, so he portrayed him as such. However, the general populous digged it, and it caught on.

[Aaron]

[quote]Originally posted by chubbyp:
<strong>

I take it you missed the part where it says all the issues will come out bi-weekly? And it does take 7 issues to nicely fill a rounded graphic novel which is what Bendis designs his arcs for.

Nice to see yet again fanboys judge stories without even reading a single issue! :rolleyes: </strong><hr></blockquote>


Yeah, the whole "fanboys" jab is really unique. Get a new line.

I don't care if it comes out biweekly (we'll see) or every 2 days. It doesn't take 7 issues to tell this kind of story. And one need not be a psychic to know this; Bendis' run on USM has been rife with unnecessarily long multi-part arcs.

And, hey, wow, you think they might be marketing toward TPBs? Gee, that NEVER occurred to me. [/sarcasm] That's the WORST reason for stretching out a story, in my opinion.

Aaron

[Beyerstein]

yeah, Bendis takes forever for the status quo of the story to change.

Do we really need a smart Venom? Why can't he just be a ridiculous giant-tongued, slobbering monster.

[jasinmartin]

USM continues to be one of the best books out there. I'm sure the Venom arc will bring in even more readers, and I have faith in BMB's ability to make it a solid tale.

As to the other post praising Bagely's work on the character and the title, I'd like to second that. I think Bendis ends up getting most the credit, which would be fine cause he definitely deserves it, but Bagely is really doing great stuff here, especially considering he stepped up to pencilling 2 books a month!

Keep 'em coming guys!

[Starpilot]

Guess I'll be taking 7 months off of ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN. Great title, but I have never liked the Venom character. Stupid concept, IMHO. Well, it'll save me a bit of money so I can go buy some better comics from other publishers.

I'll be back once the Venom arc is over.

[American Caesar]

Uh, maybe I'm confusing things here, but I thought it was Dave Michelinie and Bagley himself who did more to overexpose and mis-render Venom than anyone else. Bagley penciled the "Lethal Protector" mini, after all, with Ronnie Lim.

Is this redemption for Bags?

[chubbyp]

[MY-CHILDISH-RESPONSE]

Originally posted by Aaron:
<strong>
I don't care if it comes out biweekly (we'll see) or every 2 days. It doesn't take 7 issues to tell this kind of story.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Define "This kind of story". Please tell be the full plot and structure of what will happen in the next 7 issues.

[quote]Originally posted by Aaron:
<strong>
And one need not be a psychic to know this; Bendis' run on USM has been rife with unnecessarily long multi-part arcs.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Stating opinion as facts. That is your opinion. I'm sure not everyone agrees.

[quote]Originally posted by Aaron:
<strong>
And, hey, wow, you think they might be marketing toward TPBs? Gee, that NEVER occurred to me. [/sarcasm]
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Quoting my factual statement (Bendis has stated many times that he writes for trades) as an opinion. I think you need a lesson in debating.
[/QB]

[/MY-CHILDISH-RESPONSE]


[MY-MATURE-RESPONSE]

[quote]Originally posted by Aaron:
<strong>
Yeah, the whole "fanboys" jab is really unique. Get a new line.
</strong><hr></blockquote>
Yeah, that was out of line. Sorry!

[quote]Originally posted by Aaron:
<strong>
... you think they might be marketing toward TPBs? ... That's the WORST reason for stretching out a story, in my opinion.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

What do you have against Graphic Novels? They're doing the industry a lot of good. Not having a dig just wondering why you think that way?

[/MY-MATURE-RESPONSE]

[gOgIver]

Ever since ULTIMATE Spider-Man's last fight with Green Goblin on the Bridge, I've been noticing a BLACK inky substance following Peter Parker around like in school and other places. It happened right after S.H.I.E.L.D. unloaded on GG. ULTIMATE Venom should kick @$$!

[Jerry Fell]

[quote]Guess I'll be taking 7 months off of ULTIMATE SPIDER-MAN. Great title, but I have never liked the Venom character. Stupid concept, IMHO. Well, it'll save me a bit of money so I can go buy some better comics from other publishers.
I'll be back once the Venom arc is over.
<hr></blockquote>

Well, I'm sure we all feel bad now.

[sorry about dresden]

[quote]Originally posted by Aaron:
<strong>


Yeah, the whole "fanboys" jab is really unique. Get a new line.

I don't care if it comes out biweekly (we'll see) or every 2 days. It doesn't take 7 issues to tell this kind of story. And one need not be a psychic to know this; Bendis' run on USM has been rife with unnecessarily long multi-part arcs.

And, hey, wow, you think they might be marketing toward TPBs? Gee, that NEVER occurred to me. [/sarcasm] That's the WORST reason for stretching out a story, in my opinion.

Aaron</strong><hr></blockquote>


hahahaha...this guy.

[Reaper]

Great! Now I just can't wait for Ultimate Carnage!!!

Just joking. Honest. ;)

-Tim

[quote]Originally posted by gOgIver:
<strong>Ever since ULTIMATE Spider-Man's last fight with Green Goblin on the Bridge, I've been noticing a BLACK inky substance following Peter Parker around like in school and other places. It happened right after S.H.I.E.L.D. unloaded on GG. ULTIMATE Venom should kick @$$!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Can you point to any particular panels? Guess I missed it.

[Chris Hunter]

[quote]Originally posted by ManofTheAtom:
<strong>

Can you point to any particular panels? Guess I missed it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes, please. This observation is veeeeeeeeeery interesting. Share, so that we may all enjoy.

[Joker's_Venom]

Whoever said venom sucks is a moron, Venom is easily one of the most popular villains in spidey's history. I mean he's no kraven. Who is the worst villian next to the rocket racer. Marvel just made mistakes in expanding his character as much as I dislike Bendis' remarks about Venom. I trust in him to make Ultimate Venom into the best spidey character next to spidey himself. All you dickheads who talk crap about when was the last time you created a comic book phenomenon. NEVER!!!! By the wayhave you ever danced with the devil in the pale of moonlight

[jalamere]

chubbyp wrote:
What do you have against Graphic Novels? They're doing the industry a lot of good. Not having a dig just wondering why you think that way?

I am not defending your debate partner or anything, but I have to chime in on this. I am all for the way TPB's are helping expose more readers to this wonderful medium, but forcing all comic stories to fit within the 4-6 chapter story arc, will eventually cause the writers to develop a formulaic way of telling their tales. While some writers need guidlines to prevent them from rambling, I would not want to see this medium become so limited in scope. Comics can accomplish things that other mediums cannot. Lets not turn them into a cheap copy of movies and their subsequent sequels. That's just my opinion. That said, I don't think BMB is entirely guilty of this trend. After all, he still has stand alone day-in-the-life issues of this title. And I look forward to the venom storyline.

[Grendel Prime]

[quote]Originally posted by jalamere:
<strong>I am all for the way TPB's are helping expose more readers to this wonderful medium, but forcing all comic stories to fit within the 4-6 chapter story arc, will eventually cause the writers to develop a formulaic way of telling their tales.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I definitely understand where you're coming from. I fear the same thing at times. But the same argument could be made about the standard 22-page comic book issue format.

I recently read the first Alias TPB and after finishing it I could easily tell that, although the story was reasonably self-contained, there was a larger narrative that would continue on into the future.

My opinion is that it is not the form, it's what is done within the form.

[BlakSun]

I still think, in my humble opinion that it is far too early to introduce Venom into the USM canon. We'll see. Venom started out cool ( one of the coolest costumes in comics, particularly when Peter wore it) but, just like the Punisher ( another cool costume) was waaay overexposed to the point of parody.

P.S. Bendis is a talented writer (understatement) but I feel he does drag out storylines a bit. :cool:

[KingStalin]

All I know is i did not enjoy the recent ultimate spidey sotories. First they read way to quick. Maybe I'm a fast reader but I know bendis can make a good long comic, Powers is always a wonderufl read. Also nothing seems to happen. Last issue we saw the after affects of spidey getting shot. Great concept, great story, but I flet cheated. Maybe I expect too much. who knows. I prefer the high school scenes and the gwen-mj-peter triangle forming. Ultimate Venom might be good and might not. I hope Bendis focuses on making Brock the real threat and not venom. I always thought the villian worked best when brock kept putting himself in peter's life and letting him know any moment he could destroy his life.

[LostAndFoundFan]

[quote]Originally posted by Aaron:
<strong>God almighty, does it REALLY take seven months to tell a good Venom story? COME ON! Six months of final splash pages where Venom hovers over the near lifeless body of Peter making you wonder (not) if he'll live to see the next issue.

I love USM, but Bendis has got to be the most glacial storyteller out there.

Aaron</strong><hr></blockquote>
You were probably one of the few who compained when it took Bendis six issues to retell the origin that Stan did in one. When you consider that Venom, as originally created, is an evil version of Spider-Man, it gives Pete quite a bit to think about, which is where Bendis excels. Of course, if you haven't liked USM yet, you probably won't like this, either.

-Tony!

[hiphophead]

Everyone knows Bendis is the bomb, he is partly responsible for the resurrection of Marvel with the Ultimate Spider-Man.

Question: Does he have a contract that will pay him 10% of the profits for his redesigns? :D

Follow-up Question: Will he be bitching in 40 years if he doesn't have that contract?

[gOgIver]

[quote]Originally posted by ManofTheAtom:
<strong>

Can you point to any particular panels? Guess I missed it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Right after the fight with GG on the bridge the was an explosion and ULTIMATE Spider-Man is under the bridge and there is a dark murky shadow on the background. Then there are panels where Peter parker is in school and there are dark shadows following him. I'd say check issues from 24 or 25 to issue 29.

The whole 90's "comic crap" was true for me because from '92 to '98 I only bought independents and Vertigo. Zero Marvel except for Man without fear by FM and JRjr. And no DC until JLA with Morrison.

[quote]Originally posted by gOgIver:
<strong>

Right after the fight with GG on the bridge the was an explosion and ULTIMATE Spider-Man is under the bridge and there is a dark murky shadow on the background. Then there are panels where Peter parker is in school and there are dark shadows following him. I'd say check issues from 24 or 25 to issue 29.

The whole 90's "comic crap" was true for me because from '92 to '98 I only bought independents and Vertigo. Zero Marvel except for Man without fear by FM and JRjr. And no DC until JLA with Morrison.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ok, I have issue 28 in my hands right now. There's a scene with Pete and May talking and there's a wavely shadow on the floor.

Your guess is that that might be the symbiote?

Interestingly enough the wavely shadow appears again a few pages later when Pete is rushing towards the door, but three panels later it's gone.

There IS an interesting use of light and shadow in some panels, so it IS possible that your hypothesis might be correct in regards to the shadows.

[grendel x]

2 words, Ultimate YAWN

[gOgIver]

[quote]Originally posted by ManofTheAtom:
<strong>

Ok, I have issue 28 in my hands right now. There's a scene with Pete and May talking and there's a wavely shadow on the floor.

Your guess is that that might be the symbiote?

Interestingly enough the wavely shadow appears again a few pages later when Pete is rushing towards the door, but three panels later it's gone.

There IS an interesting use of light and shadow in some panels, so it IS possible that your hypothesis might be correct in regards to the shadows.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah, that's my guess. With Bendis you never know. I'm getting use to turning to the last page of his comics and saying "HOLY $#!T!

:)

[Combat Chuck]

I'm going to have to chime in and agree with everybody that has been giving props to Bagley. The man is a workhorse....he hasn't missed a single issue of Ultimate Spider-man, even when the format switched to bi-weekly. Mad props for Bagley. Mad props.

One thing that has me really excited for the run is the excellent cover art that we've been given. I know that they're all versions of a Venom that we've all seen, but they've really hooked me, and I can't wait for this arc.

And I'm going to have to check out these panels with the shadow-ey 'may be Venom, may just be an oil leak' black form. Hurm.

[Korimyr the Rat]

I've always liked Venom-- though a lot of this is because, when he was gimmicky, goofy, and stupid, I wasn't really mature enough to tell the difference.

But, there's always been a lot of potential for him to be an interesting character-- as long as that ridiculous tongue isn't quite as ridiculous and he maintains the air of menace-- which requires him to be intelligent as well as powerful.

He also works pretty well as an anti-hero, as opposed to, say, Sabretooth, because his entire reason for attacking Spider-Man is that he hates Spider-Man. He can do pretty much anything he wants with anyone who isn't Spider-Man, and his behavior will make sense, as long as the writer gives him some kind of reason.

Some time later, after we've seen what this new Venom will be like, I wouldn't mind seeing an Ultimate Carnage, as long as he's treated with the plausibility and grace that Bendis has shown for other Spider-Man characters.

[Venom]

I'm a really big Venom fan as you can probably guess. He(or should I say 'they')has been my favorite Spider-Man villian ever since I picked up a Spider-Man comic. I'm really excited about reading the Venom issues in Ultimate Spider-Man and I can hardly wait for Ultimate Venom. I gotta tell my friends about it.

[Speak]

[quote]Originally posted by Grendel Prime:
<strong>Don't get me wrong: I think Bendis is the shiznit. I bow down at the alter of Bendis. If he writes it, then I read it. And 99 times out of 100, I end up loving it.

But I just want to take a moment to give some respect where respect is due. Mark Bagley. Since he jumped from New Warriors to Amazing (how many years ago was that?), Bagley has become the definitive Spider-Man artist. That's a longevity you don't see almost anywhere these days. And yet his work doesn't show the slightest tedium or routine. If anything it is more dynamic and fresh than ever.

All without a line of a gazillion toys, a crappy film, or million-dollar baseballs.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm so glad to see somebody else singing the praises of Bagley. I've loved his work since New Warriors, and he really has just shown consistent improvement in fresh, clean style over the past decade. Am I the only one who picked up the Ultimate Spidey special with all those other artists and thought this isn't ultimate spidey? Bagley's distinctive style has become so closely associated with the title in my mind (perhaps because it works so well...there's a noticeable age difference between the Peter and MJ that he draws in Ultimate and the ones he drew in ASM, but they shockingly enough still look like the same person over time) that I really have a hard time wrapping my head around any other artist on the book. Here's hoping that Bendis and Bagley (and Thibert! He adds so much to Bagley's work! Must not forget Thibert!) stick with the title for many years to come.

-Speak

[ryuguy01]

Couldn't agree more on the Bagley thing. The guy is great and this comic just wouldn't be the same without him. I thought I was depressed when Bags left Amazing....I'll be really upset when Mark moves on from Ultimate, his stle has set the foundation for this mag and I don't know if anyone else can do what he has done. In all seriousness, I hope Mr. Bagley And Brian (Can't forget about one of the greatest comic writers ever now can we???) stay on for a long time to come.

Oh, and just to stay on subject, I am looking forward to the Venom story line....I was kind of hopeing to see some of the classic villians (Sandman, Lizard, Vulture, Mysterio, ect...) before I saw ol Eddie but hey, I'll take it when I can get it.