MattBrady
11-04-2002, 12:24 PM
<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/Image/RM_01_01.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/Image/RM_01_01_t.jpg" align="right" alt="Rex Mundi #1, page 1" width="175" height="269" border="0"></a>In Latin, it means “King of the World,” for its creators, Arvid Nelson and Eric Johnson, it means…well, kinda the same thing. Kicking its way to life with a #0 issue in August, Rex Mundi, published by Image, sold out of it’s original printing within two weeks. Image went back to press, and signed the creators to an ongoing series deal, with Rex Mundi #1 shipping in December.
Set in 1933 Paris, the story is one of conspiracies, the supernatural, power, and murder. The introductory issue reads like a movie, unfolding just enough of the setting and characters to hold the attention, while Johnson’s detailed art brings Paris, both above and below ground to life – and grisly death. The story begins with Father Marin knocks on the door of his friend, Dr. Sauniere at one in the morning with a story that, at one time, the good doctor would have merely regarded as one of the old priest’s fantasies, except this one was firstly rooted in reality.
The priest was the guardian of a repository of official church documents dating back hundreds and thousands of years – secret documents, the existence of which were not even known to the clergy at large, nor those in power in the secular world. If revealed, the secrets contained within the documents could undermine the church’s authority, or otherwise result in a shift in the world’s geo-political power structure unlike anything ever seen.
Newsarama sat down with the co-creators for a chat about the series and its success, as well as to take a look at some of the upcoming pages of issue #1.
Newsarama: First off, for folks who might not have picked up the #0 issue, can you give the broad-strokes picture of Rex Mundi for the uninitiated?
Arvid Nelson : Rex Mundi is set in Paris in 1933, but things are slightly different from our world. It looks like a 30s-era detective movie, but underneath social conditions are still medieval. Magic is real, although it’s not your pointy-hatted-wizard-throwing-lightningbolts variety of magic; it’s more subtle, based on occult Jewish and Christian traditions. Also, in this world the Protestant Reformation never happened. I think it’s most important to remember that Rex Mundi is, at its core, a murder mystery, a murder mystery with a medieval twist.
Eric Johnson: Rex starts as a murder mystery, and like Arvid says, that's its core, but it really is much more epic than, say, a Chandler novel. Rex is going to grow and evolve over the course of the series and will include elements of political intrigue, an impending war, some very cool locales, a dash of action/adventure. Really, every time Arvid and I talk about the story and he tells me what he's got planned I just think of, like, a really cool old Sunday serial, but much, much deeper.
NRAMA: As you mention, Arvid, the story has some interesting twists on history – things that may have never been more than a question on a history test for your audience, perhaps. What were the things that influenced you in the creation of Rex Mundi, in particular, the historical events that you tweaked to produce your unique world?
AN: This is actually a really difficult question for me to answer. Rex is an expression of a shared interest Eric and I have in the occult, in “real” magic, and in conspiracy theories. Rex Mundi is a place where all the terrifying and titillating legends of secret societies and “shadow” history are real. What could be more fun than that?
EJ: I always say that if I weren't drawing comics I'd be an archaeologist. I've also always had a deep fascination with religions and myth, the stranger the better, so when Arvid first came to me with the beginning idea for Rex I was in! What can I say, religion, secret societies… if something is a secret, why is it a secret? Why can't everyone know? And if you can discover the secret, what a mad rush that is. If something's lost there's an undeniable urge to try to find it.
Human history is filled with examples of people going to great lengths to discover/ recover knowledge. Ultimately, I think that's what drives Rex Mundi, every character is searching for questions they really shouldn't be asking, and we get to play in the sandbox of all of those things that are whispered about and subject to rumor and innuendo because of the secrecy that surrounds them. So, from Arvid's initial idea we've been able to just, sort of, go nuts with an array of things that pique each of our interests, and that ultimately extends beyond the weird stuff and into more mundane things like, for me, architecture, fashion, stonework, ancient design motifs, etc., etc…you know, good fun stuff!
NRAMA: Looking both at the website and the “newspaper” page in the back of issue #0, you’ve done a copious amount of research for this series. How long were you researching prior to writing and drawing?
<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/Image/RM_01_03.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/Image/RM_01_03_t.jpg" align="left" alt="Rex Mundi #1, page 3" width="175" height="269" border="0"></a>AN: I’ve logged about three years of research, and I’m not even close to done. But I approach Rex Mundi as a story, not a history lesson. I want it to be fun an enjoyable, action-packed comic book before everything else. I only did the huge amount of research I did because I thought it would make the story more interesting.
EN: We've both been knee deep in research right from the very beginning, like Arvid said, about three years now. Actually, it's a little more than three years at this point. It really is a never ending process. At this point I'm a staple in my local Barnes and Nobles and a few other local used books shops just looking for anything and everything that I think I might be able to use at some point. And it really is that bad, too, because I've got a ton of books that are going to be great, like, twenty issues in, you know, way down the line. Some of those were purchased over two years ago. Arvid's also sent me a ton of books that he thought might help. It's interesting when you really start researching a project like Rex, because you go in thinking that you've got a pretty decent grasp of the things that will go into your little world, and then, fairly quickly, you see either just how wrong you were, or, at least, how little you actually knew.
NRAMA: Speaking of research and locations, why France? Was this something that you researched heavily, as in looking at France as one of the main repositories of Church documents after the fall of Rome, or did you just want to…set a story in France?
AN: France is really interesting in a lot of ways. It was the most powerful kingdom of Middle Ages, and the earliest stories of the Holy Grail are actually set in France, not England. It was right on the front lines of Christianity’s struggle with Islam, and Southern France is the location of some very, very strange legends and mysteries. It just seems like the perfect setting.
EJ: From a visual standpoint, France, in general, but Paris in particular is everything you could want. You have very old parts of the city that look very old, sitting next to older parts that are amazingly well preserved. The mix of ancient and new is incredible. We can go from gothic, dark and dank, to 30's modern in a page turn and it becomes a very real visual representation of the themes and plot of the story. Paris is flat out a beautiful city, beyond that. This from a guy that's never been there, but that's really part of the point. You get all of that from photo references, movies, and personal accounts. I think we're really going to feel as if we've accomplished something if we can get some of that across in the comic while at the same time creating a place that is utterly unique with a life of its own.
NRAMA: Given that, and what you said earlier about research, how much research did writing and drawing the story entail? What kind of references did you have to pull out for the various parts of the story?
<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/Image/RM_01_05.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/Image/RM_01_05_t.jpg" align="right" alt="Rex Mundi #1, page 5" width="175" height="269" border="0"></a>AN: From a writer’s standpoint, the central mystery behind Rex Mundi spans about 2,000 years of history, everything from the Roman Empire to the Crusades to World War I. So writing the story involved a massive amount of research. Probably the hardest thing for me emotionally is streamlining the details so the story is fun and well-paced.
EJ: I have literally stacks of books setting next to my drawing table covering everything from period and earlier cars, hairstyles and fashion, architecture, etc. In fact I have more picture books about France, Paris, Gothic styles, Romantic style, Islamic style, etc., etc. ad nauseam than I ever thought I have.
I have books on different ancient and medieval design motifs. Books about military uniforms, weapons, and equipment. I've gone so far as to buy a fedora, because they're damned hard to draw if you don't have one to see in this position or that. I use my Polaroid a lot, especially for tricky body and hand positions, and if I can't find a reference in any of the books I have I'll jump online. In some instances the research for a page can take longer than the actual drawing, but it's totally worth it in my opinion.
NRAMA: Okay – research aside for a while, let’s talk about the characters. Can you give a character sketch of Dr. Sauniere – he comes to seems like a medical doctor in the mold of other famous investigators in literature, a doctor who dabbles in many other interests…
AN: Sauniere is, in fact, a practicing medical doctor. Medicine itself doesn’t play into Rex Mundi very much—occasionally Sauniere’s knowledge will help him interpret something, but he’s mostly going to rely on sort of tough-talking detective work.
There’s a huge void in Sauniere’s life because he’s an alcoholic. He barely got through medical school, and he’s never really lived up to his potential. He has many reasons for investigating the mystery, but mainly he’s looking for a way to redeem himself and his life, although he would never admit that.
NRAMA: Why a doctor, rather than a detective or private investigator, as this is, a murder mystery?
At the very earliest stages of Rex Mundi’s development I knew I wanted it to be a mystery but I really didn’t want to make the main character a PI or a cop. That seems so boring. By forcing myself to write a character who isn’t a professional detective, I was forced to write a more interesting character.
NRAMA: Father Marin – a good priest, a bad one? Why was he guarding the manuscripts in the first place?
AN: He’s a bit of both. I think characters who are wholly “good” are really boring. Marin is very devoted to the church, but he has a history of allowing his hormones to get him into some very serious trouble. He was assigned the manuscripts because his superiors thought he was a good choice, and they covered their eyes when there were transgressions. As I think we’ve seen over the past year, the Roman Church is very slow to change its mind, and this often causes problems…
NRAMA: Okay – again, without giving away too much, Father Marin comes to Sauniere immediately when he discoveres the vault has been breached. What kind of history do the two share?
AN: Marin and Julien have a symbiotic relationship. They have been friends for a long time. Marin has always helped Julien when he was in the midst of alcoholic binges, and Marin appreciates the fact that Julien will care for poor people without pay, even though it’s illegal in Rex Mundi. Marin also knows Julien is extremely intelligent, and when the scroll is stolen, Julien is basically the only person Marin can confide in.
NRAMA: So – the first issue is already set up through the #0 issue and the webisode which started in the #0 as well. Given it’s seemingly closed-ended nature of the story, that is, recovery of what was stolen, is Rex Mundi an ongoing, open-ended series?
AN: Rex Mundi is definitely a limited series. All told, it will be 36 issues. I actually don’t read many comic books, at least not as many as I should, so I had no idea 36 issues is considered very, very long.
But the story demands that many issues. I have a very clear idea of where I want Rex Mundi to go—in fact, the final scene is perfectly crystallized in my head. But I want to retain a degree of flexibility in the narrative to accommodate interesting ideas as they come up. And they keep coming up!
<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/Image/RM_01_06.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/Image/RM_01_06_t.jpg" align="left" alt="Rex Mundi #1, page 6" width="175" height="269" border="0"></a>EJ: Right - in the next couple of issues we're going to see a little more of Sauniere's life as we see him at work a little and meet an old flame, Genevieve who has an interesting connection to the mystery as we'll find out. She'll be entering the story in issue #2. In issue #1 we're going to meet another friend of Dr. Sauniere's, Rabbi Albert Maiselles, who will hopefully be able to help Sauniere get pointed in the right direction with regard to an aspect of the mystery. The Rabbi's situation will also shed a little more light on some of the nastier social conditions that occur in the world of Rex Mundi.
Also in issue #1 we're going to see more of the mysterious Man in White from the end of issue #0. Issue #2 and 3 will feature the Inquisition more prominently, and will; in issue #3 introduce the Duke of Lorraine who's going to be very important to the story as a whole.
I'm really looking forward to these first three issues because we really get our first really good tastes of the Man in White and Brother Moricaud from the inquisition, two of my favorite characters to draw in the book, and things start to ratchet up a little as we get further into the meat of it. Basically the fun is just starting.
NRAMA: Putting the series aside for a moment, from what you said, it seems that the two of you mesh very well as creators and are able to share a single vision with one clear outcome. How long have the two of you been working together, and how did you both get started and meet?
AN: Eric and I met at the ’99 San Diego Comicon. It was utter synchronicity. I had the vaguest idea for an alternate history comic, but I knew next-to-nothing about comics. So I went with some friends to San Diego without really knowing what to expect. I saw Eric walking around with a portfolio and I ambushed him. As soon as I saw his art - he had drawn these gorgeous Batman pages - I knew that he would be perfect. I emailed him the day after I returned from the con, and it turned out he was as into conspiracy theories and the occult as I. It’s been about three-and-a-half years of toil for us, and it’s just starting to pay off. I couldn’t ask for a better partner, and he definitely makes up for my lack of knowledge about comics.
EJ: Aw! I love you too, man!
Anyway, '99 was the first year that I was really serious about getting work at the Con. I mean, in the years prior I was much more focused on not really knowing what I wanted to do other than sing in my band. But then the band broke up, I was getting old, had a girlfriend that was incredibly supportive, but not real keen on going out with a bum, and I had to rethink my position. I'd always thought I'd be a comic book artist, but all I ever really did about it was draw a few pages every, I don't know, six months or so, send them off to a publisher or two, get rejected and then go to the con - I live in San Diego - with, like two pages of art, and then be bummed when I walked out with no work. I mean, it was bad, I was taking; seriously, two pages a couple of years, in a plastic bag, with, maybe two other pages that weren't done. Basically, even though in my mind I was dead serious about getting work, my actions weren't serious.
So, in '99 I got a nice portfolio, took, I think it was 15 complete pages, and some extra stuff like a couple of album covers I'd drawn for local bands and more or less ignored the big publishers, well, except DC, who gave me a really positive review, but no immediate work, and went around to the smaller cats. Arvid was at a table in among those smaller cats, and said he was interested in my work and that he'd e-mail me. I was down, but frankly didn't expect to hear from him, but, sure enough, the day after the con he e-mailed me the bare bones of what was then titled "sixhundredandsixtysix" and became Rex Mundi. I was floored, it was right up my alley, utterly unique and I e-mailed him to tell him I thought so and that we were on. We started developing it right then and three and a half years , many, many e-mails, and thousands of dollars in phone bills here we are… at the beginning.
It's really cool, because we both still had so much work to do personally learning the aspects of our craft, that we developed such a good, strong bond that we did so early. I think that relationship and support we provided each other allowed us to develop a truly unique collaborative style as well as allowing us to each personally develop our work in ways that I don't think would have been possible without it.
NRAMA: Given the strength of both the story and art, why did you choose Image, rather than say, Vertigo?
<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/Image/RM_01_07.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/Image/RM_01_07_t.jpg" align="right" alt="Rex Mundi #1, page 7" width="175" height="269" border="0"></a>AN: We were very proactive about Image. Initially we were very gung-ho about self-publishing, but it occurred to us we’d have a much larger audience with Image. Also, we really appreciate the fact that Image doesn’t tell us what to do editorially. In fact, Image basically is self-publishing with all the benefits of a big house backing you up. Who could say no?
EJ: Right - we definitely weighed our options, but from the beginning Image was the place that we thought we'd fit best. At the time that we were looking the books that we saw coming out from Image were Violent Messiahs, The Red Star, Powers, The Bronze Age, etc. I mean they were putting out some seriously good books that were intelligently written and well illustrated, which was not always the case in the past.
Frankly, we were excited to see a "major" putting so much behind such good, offbeat, non-traditional books. I'm a big proponent of diversity in comics and seeing a major publisher putting out a really solid line up of books that, if they included cats in spandex at all, did so in the fringe. Interestingly, at the time that we were actively seeking Image out we were told by several sources that they weren't looking for books like Rex anymore, but wanted to focus mainly on superheroes. Thankfully those reports were wrong, and I'm really happy to see that they're continuing to nicely support their, sort of, "alternative" books as they roll out their new superhero line. I hope that continues, and I've a good feeling it will with the support they've given us, Paradigm, Hawaiian Dick, Liberty Meadows, Stupid Comics, and continue to give to Powers and Violent Messiahs.
It's an interesting time in comics right now because there are more and more options to creators that want to do their own thing. In the beginning with Rex, we were going to do it in black and white, and for a black and white book there are really a number of good publishers to choose from, but when we decided to do Rex in color, really, Image became the only choice so far as we were concerned. Ultimately, Image was always my first choice, if from no more than a fanboy's point of view. I mean, I think you have to be stoked if the third largest publisher in comics is publishing your first work, but beyond that, Image offered the largest potential audience, as well as the most autonomy and full ownership of our title. Like Arvid said, who'd say no to that?
NRAMA: Something that struck me as interesting is that you mention the website in the comic, have a story in the comic that continues on it, and it obviously is…well, not essential to reading the story, it certainly is valuable. Why devote so much time and energy to it, though?
AN: One of the things I love most about science fiction epics like Dune is the glossary at the back. Before the web, you really couldn’t do that with a comic book in serial format. When Eric, Asa, the designer, and I made rexmundi.net, we didn’t just want an online advertisement for our comic—we wanted something that would elevate Rex Mundi above “just” a serial comic, and something that would raise the bar for comics in general. To that end, rexmundi.net is a compendium in the tradition of Dune, but it’s also much more because it’s interactive, it’s graphic, and best of all, best of all, it’s free. We’ve got a huge online dictionary, a Rex Mundi web comic called Brother Matthew, and so much more. I really hope people will take advantage of rexmundi.net. It was a labor of love for Eric, Asa and me, and it’s one of the ways we’re trying to give back to the comics reading community.
EJ: It's definitely about creating as complete an experience as possible. As Arvid said, sometimes the best part of really detailed stories and series like Dune, The Lord of the Rings, Star Trek, Star Wars, etc. is that there's so much for the reader to get caught up in, and to help make the world and story feel more real, which is the point, if only for brief periods of time.
Beyond that, Arvid and I are both strong believers in creating as detailed a world as possible to increase believability. That means that there are parts of the world that we know about, that inform our decisions on how to tell this part of the story or that, but that, without a resource other than the story itself, you, the reader, would never know about. With a resource other than the story that can inform you of these sort of ancillary, even extraneous in some cases, details your enjoyment of the story can be increased, and, hopefully instead of just reading the story you can come closer to experiencing it. And let's be really honest, we've put a lot of hard work into creating a world that's as detailed and "real" as possible, and a lot of that won't be directly used. Some of it's pretty cool, you know? And we'd like to use it, and or let people know about it, just because.
But, seriously, readers that have been following Rex Mundi: Brother Matthew on the web, even though it's not essential to the main story, are going to get a richer experience reading the main story because they'll already be somewhat familiar with the Inquisition, for instance. And, ultimately it's our way of trying to give our readers as much as we possibly can to enjoy Rex Mundi and it's spin-offs as much as possible. It's the same idea behind the newspaper in the back of the book, which we've done since the first black and white version back in 2000, before we even had a website, and will continue to include in every issue. The trick is to include that information to increase enjoyment, but not be essential to it, and I think as long as we're conscious of the distinction we'll be able to avoid getting so caught up in the extra details that it makes the story impenetrable for the less vigorous reader.
NRAMA: Finally, not to throw cold water on the comics, but, to put it bluntly, why take Rex Mundi to comics? The story is solid enough that it could be easily seen as a film, where it would undoubtedly reach a much wider audience. Why go for the print edition, rather than pitch it as a movie or television series?
AN: Comics are just about the only medium that really allow us the creative freedom we need to make this story the way we want it to be. Rex Mundi is as long as a two-season television miniseries, but it also requires the creative mobility of an independent film and the budget of a gargantuan Hollywood blockbuster. Comics, for me, combine the best parts of independent film, Hollywood and television. At the end of the day, it’s the only way to do Rex Mundi right.
EJ: You know, hopefully down the road there will be a movie based on Rex Mundi, and hopefully Arvid, Jeromy Cox, our uber-talented colorist, and I will be intimately involved with it and it will be wonderful and blah, blah, blah.
But the comic is the fruit of three people and three people only, whereas any film will be the product of literally hundreds. By definition it would be watered down and not nearly as pure as it is now. Each set of hands that the story goes through creatively leaves an imprint, the Rex Mundi that you hold in your hands and read is not Arvid's purest vision because of me, it is not our purest vision because of Jeromy, but that's where it ends with the comic, not too far from the beginning. In film, in most cases, the beginning is a dot on the horizon in the distance, and the end product bears, sometimes not even a passing resemblance to what you started with. And that encompasses budgetary concerns, scheduling and conflicts with same, egos, etc., etc. Then there's the fact that if you have a visual representation of a story, something a film producer can see, not just read, like a pitch, or a screenplay, it makes it that much easier to visualize the film, which hopefully makes it a little more possible to keep any film that might be made relatively close to the source.
Thing is, for me, I love film, I want to act someday, Arvid wants to write and direct, Jeromy just got back from filming in Mexico on a new Russel Crow movie that he's going to be in. All three of us, basically, want to make films, so we definitely have aspirations in that direction, but comics will always be the first choice. Well, at least for me. There're no two ways around it, in comics we have both the ability to show our readers the amazing sets, costuming, acting and so on that we'd be looking for in a film based on Rex Mundi, without regard to the budgetary concerns that would be so restricting in film. You know, I'm a hell of a lot cheaper than a handful of medium to large stars, location permits, cranes, sets, film, cameras, planes and helicopters, travel and accommodations for a crew of hundreds, explosives, editors and equipment, etc., etc. We also have the flexibility and leisure in terms of length to explore so many nuances in the story that would probably be white washed for time considerations in a film. And let's not forget that we can do things in comics, thematically, that in film would be changed, subdued, or otherwise watered down in most cases because the powers that be might see them as risky or dangerous due to the money that's being invested and the necessity to reach as large an audience as possible. We get the best of all worlds.
Like I said, Arvid and I definitely love film, and hope to make films, even a Rex Mundi film someday, but comics are definitely the superior medium in my estimation.
Set in 1933 Paris, the story is one of conspiracies, the supernatural, power, and murder. The introductory issue reads like a movie, unfolding just enough of the setting and characters to hold the attention, while Johnson’s detailed art brings Paris, both above and below ground to life – and grisly death. The story begins with Father Marin knocks on the door of his friend, Dr. Sauniere at one in the morning with a story that, at one time, the good doctor would have merely regarded as one of the old priest’s fantasies, except this one was firstly rooted in reality.
The priest was the guardian of a repository of official church documents dating back hundreds and thousands of years – secret documents, the existence of which were not even known to the clergy at large, nor those in power in the secular world. If revealed, the secrets contained within the documents could undermine the church’s authority, or otherwise result in a shift in the world’s geo-political power structure unlike anything ever seen.
Newsarama sat down with the co-creators for a chat about the series and its success, as well as to take a look at some of the upcoming pages of issue #1.
Newsarama: First off, for folks who might not have picked up the #0 issue, can you give the broad-strokes picture of Rex Mundi for the uninitiated?
Arvid Nelson : Rex Mundi is set in Paris in 1933, but things are slightly different from our world. It looks like a 30s-era detective movie, but underneath social conditions are still medieval. Magic is real, although it’s not your pointy-hatted-wizard-throwing-lightningbolts variety of magic; it’s more subtle, based on occult Jewish and Christian traditions. Also, in this world the Protestant Reformation never happened. I think it’s most important to remember that Rex Mundi is, at its core, a murder mystery, a murder mystery with a medieval twist.
Eric Johnson: Rex starts as a murder mystery, and like Arvid says, that's its core, but it really is much more epic than, say, a Chandler novel. Rex is going to grow and evolve over the course of the series and will include elements of political intrigue, an impending war, some very cool locales, a dash of action/adventure. Really, every time Arvid and I talk about the story and he tells me what he's got planned I just think of, like, a really cool old Sunday serial, but much, much deeper.
NRAMA: As you mention, Arvid, the story has some interesting twists on history – things that may have never been more than a question on a history test for your audience, perhaps. What were the things that influenced you in the creation of Rex Mundi, in particular, the historical events that you tweaked to produce your unique world?
AN: This is actually a really difficult question for me to answer. Rex is an expression of a shared interest Eric and I have in the occult, in “real” magic, and in conspiracy theories. Rex Mundi is a place where all the terrifying and titillating legends of secret societies and “shadow” history are real. What could be more fun than that?
EJ: I always say that if I weren't drawing comics I'd be an archaeologist. I've also always had a deep fascination with religions and myth, the stranger the better, so when Arvid first came to me with the beginning idea for Rex I was in! What can I say, religion, secret societies… if something is a secret, why is it a secret? Why can't everyone know? And if you can discover the secret, what a mad rush that is. If something's lost there's an undeniable urge to try to find it.
Human history is filled with examples of people going to great lengths to discover/ recover knowledge. Ultimately, I think that's what drives Rex Mundi, every character is searching for questions they really shouldn't be asking, and we get to play in the sandbox of all of those things that are whispered about and subject to rumor and innuendo because of the secrecy that surrounds them. So, from Arvid's initial idea we've been able to just, sort of, go nuts with an array of things that pique each of our interests, and that ultimately extends beyond the weird stuff and into more mundane things like, for me, architecture, fashion, stonework, ancient design motifs, etc., etc…you know, good fun stuff!
NRAMA: Looking both at the website and the “newspaper” page in the back of issue #0, you’ve done a copious amount of research for this series. How long were you researching prior to writing and drawing?
<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/Image/RM_01_03.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/Image/RM_01_03_t.jpg" align="left" alt="Rex Mundi #1, page 3" width="175" height="269" border="0"></a>AN: I’ve logged about three years of research, and I’m not even close to done. But I approach Rex Mundi as a story, not a history lesson. I want it to be fun an enjoyable, action-packed comic book before everything else. I only did the huge amount of research I did because I thought it would make the story more interesting.
EN: We've both been knee deep in research right from the very beginning, like Arvid said, about three years now. Actually, it's a little more than three years at this point. It really is a never ending process. At this point I'm a staple in my local Barnes and Nobles and a few other local used books shops just looking for anything and everything that I think I might be able to use at some point. And it really is that bad, too, because I've got a ton of books that are going to be great, like, twenty issues in, you know, way down the line. Some of those were purchased over two years ago. Arvid's also sent me a ton of books that he thought might help. It's interesting when you really start researching a project like Rex, because you go in thinking that you've got a pretty decent grasp of the things that will go into your little world, and then, fairly quickly, you see either just how wrong you were, or, at least, how little you actually knew.
NRAMA: Speaking of research and locations, why France? Was this something that you researched heavily, as in looking at France as one of the main repositories of Church documents after the fall of Rome, or did you just want to…set a story in France?
AN: France is really interesting in a lot of ways. It was the most powerful kingdom of Middle Ages, and the earliest stories of the Holy Grail are actually set in France, not England. It was right on the front lines of Christianity’s struggle with Islam, and Southern France is the location of some very, very strange legends and mysteries. It just seems like the perfect setting.
EJ: From a visual standpoint, France, in general, but Paris in particular is everything you could want. You have very old parts of the city that look very old, sitting next to older parts that are amazingly well preserved. The mix of ancient and new is incredible. We can go from gothic, dark and dank, to 30's modern in a page turn and it becomes a very real visual representation of the themes and plot of the story. Paris is flat out a beautiful city, beyond that. This from a guy that's never been there, but that's really part of the point. You get all of that from photo references, movies, and personal accounts. I think we're really going to feel as if we've accomplished something if we can get some of that across in the comic while at the same time creating a place that is utterly unique with a life of its own.
NRAMA: Given that, and what you said earlier about research, how much research did writing and drawing the story entail? What kind of references did you have to pull out for the various parts of the story?
<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/Image/RM_01_05.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/Image/RM_01_05_t.jpg" align="right" alt="Rex Mundi #1, page 5" width="175" height="269" border="0"></a>AN: From a writer’s standpoint, the central mystery behind Rex Mundi spans about 2,000 years of history, everything from the Roman Empire to the Crusades to World War I. So writing the story involved a massive amount of research. Probably the hardest thing for me emotionally is streamlining the details so the story is fun and well-paced.
EJ: I have literally stacks of books setting next to my drawing table covering everything from period and earlier cars, hairstyles and fashion, architecture, etc. In fact I have more picture books about France, Paris, Gothic styles, Romantic style, Islamic style, etc., etc. ad nauseam than I ever thought I have.
I have books on different ancient and medieval design motifs. Books about military uniforms, weapons, and equipment. I've gone so far as to buy a fedora, because they're damned hard to draw if you don't have one to see in this position or that. I use my Polaroid a lot, especially for tricky body and hand positions, and if I can't find a reference in any of the books I have I'll jump online. In some instances the research for a page can take longer than the actual drawing, but it's totally worth it in my opinion.
NRAMA: Okay – research aside for a while, let’s talk about the characters. Can you give a character sketch of Dr. Sauniere – he comes to seems like a medical doctor in the mold of other famous investigators in literature, a doctor who dabbles in many other interests…
AN: Sauniere is, in fact, a practicing medical doctor. Medicine itself doesn’t play into Rex Mundi very much—occasionally Sauniere’s knowledge will help him interpret something, but he’s mostly going to rely on sort of tough-talking detective work.
There’s a huge void in Sauniere’s life because he’s an alcoholic. He barely got through medical school, and he’s never really lived up to his potential. He has many reasons for investigating the mystery, but mainly he’s looking for a way to redeem himself and his life, although he would never admit that.
NRAMA: Why a doctor, rather than a detective or private investigator, as this is, a murder mystery?
At the very earliest stages of Rex Mundi’s development I knew I wanted it to be a mystery but I really didn’t want to make the main character a PI or a cop. That seems so boring. By forcing myself to write a character who isn’t a professional detective, I was forced to write a more interesting character.
NRAMA: Father Marin – a good priest, a bad one? Why was he guarding the manuscripts in the first place?
AN: He’s a bit of both. I think characters who are wholly “good” are really boring. Marin is very devoted to the church, but he has a history of allowing his hormones to get him into some very serious trouble. He was assigned the manuscripts because his superiors thought he was a good choice, and they covered their eyes when there were transgressions. As I think we’ve seen over the past year, the Roman Church is very slow to change its mind, and this often causes problems…
NRAMA: Okay – again, without giving away too much, Father Marin comes to Sauniere immediately when he discoveres the vault has been breached. What kind of history do the two share?
AN: Marin and Julien have a symbiotic relationship. They have been friends for a long time. Marin has always helped Julien when he was in the midst of alcoholic binges, and Marin appreciates the fact that Julien will care for poor people without pay, even though it’s illegal in Rex Mundi. Marin also knows Julien is extremely intelligent, and when the scroll is stolen, Julien is basically the only person Marin can confide in.
NRAMA: So – the first issue is already set up through the #0 issue and the webisode which started in the #0 as well. Given it’s seemingly closed-ended nature of the story, that is, recovery of what was stolen, is Rex Mundi an ongoing, open-ended series?
AN: Rex Mundi is definitely a limited series. All told, it will be 36 issues. I actually don’t read many comic books, at least not as many as I should, so I had no idea 36 issues is considered very, very long.
But the story demands that many issues. I have a very clear idea of where I want Rex Mundi to go—in fact, the final scene is perfectly crystallized in my head. But I want to retain a degree of flexibility in the narrative to accommodate interesting ideas as they come up. And they keep coming up!
<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/Image/RM_01_06.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/Image/RM_01_06_t.jpg" align="left" alt="Rex Mundi #1, page 6" width="175" height="269" border="0"></a>EJ: Right - in the next couple of issues we're going to see a little more of Sauniere's life as we see him at work a little and meet an old flame, Genevieve who has an interesting connection to the mystery as we'll find out. She'll be entering the story in issue #2. In issue #1 we're going to meet another friend of Dr. Sauniere's, Rabbi Albert Maiselles, who will hopefully be able to help Sauniere get pointed in the right direction with regard to an aspect of the mystery. The Rabbi's situation will also shed a little more light on some of the nastier social conditions that occur in the world of Rex Mundi.
Also in issue #1 we're going to see more of the mysterious Man in White from the end of issue #0. Issue #2 and 3 will feature the Inquisition more prominently, and will; in issue #3 introduce the Duke of Lorraine who's going to be very important to the story as a whole.
I'm really looking forward to these first three issues because we really get our first really good tastes of the Man in White and Brother Moricaud from the inquisition, two of my favorite characters to draw in the book, and things start to ratchet up a little as we get further into the meat of it. Basically the fun is just starting.
NRAMA: Putting the series aside for a moment, from what you said, it seems that the two of you mesh very well as creators and are able to share a single vision with one clear outcome. How long have the two of you been working together, and how did you both get started and meet?
AN: Eric and I met at the ’99 San Diego Comicon. It was utter synchronicity. I had the vaguest idea for an alternate history comic, but I knew next-to-nothing about comics. So I went with some friends to San Diego without really knowing what to expect. I saw Eric walking around with a portfolio and I ambushed him. As soon as I saw his art - he had drawn these gorgeous Batman pages - I knew that he would be perfect. I emailed him the day after I returned from the con, and it turned out he was as into conspiracy theories and the occult as I. It’s been about three-and-a-half years of toil for us, and it’s just starting to pay off. I couldn’t ask for a better partner, and he definitely makes up for my lack of knowledge about comics.
EJ: Aw! I love you too, man!
Anyway, '99 was the first year that I was really serious about getting work at the Con. I mean, in the years prior I was much more focused on not really knowing what I wanted to do other than sing in my band. But then the band broke up, I was getting old, had a girlfriend that was incredibly supportive, but not real keen on going out with a bum, and I had to rethink my position. I'd always thought I'd be a comic book artist, but all I ever really did about it was draw a few pages every, I don't know, six months or so, send them off to a publisher or two, get rejected and then go to the con - I live in San Diego - with, like two pages of art, and then be bummed when I walked out with no work. I mean, it was bad, I was taking; seriously, two pages a couple of years, in a plastic bag, with, maybe two other pages that weren't done. Basically, even though in my mind I was dead serious about getting work, my actions weren't serious.
So, in '99 I got a nice portfolio, took, I think it was 15 complete pages, and some extra stuff like a couple of album covers I'd drawn for local bands and more or less ignored the big publishers, well, except DC, who gave me a really positive review, but no immediate work, and went around to the smaller cats. Arvid was at a table in among those smaller cats, and said he was interested in my work and that he'd e-mail me. I was down, but frankly didn't expect to hear from him, but, sure enough, the day after the con he e-mailed me the bare bones of what was then titled "sixhundredandsixtysix" and became Rex Mundi. I was floored, it was right up my alley, utterly unique and I e-mailed him to tell him I thought so and that we were on. We started developing it right then and three and a half years , many, many e-mails, and thousands of dollars in phone bills here we are… at the beginning.
It's really cool, because we both still had so much work to do personally learning the aspects of our craft, that we developed such a good, strong bond that we did so early. I think that relationship and support we provided each other allowed us to develop a truly unique collaborative style as well as allowing us to each personally develop our work in ways that I don't think would have been possible without it.
NRAMA: Given the strength of both the story and art, why did you choose Image, rather than say, Vertigo?
<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/Image/RM_01_07.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/Image/RM_01_07_t.jpg" align="right" alt="Rex Mundi #1, page 7" width="175" height="269" border="0"></a>AN: We were very proactive about Image. Initially we were very gung-ho about self-publishing, but it occurred to us we’d have a much larger audience with Image. Also, we really appreciate the fact that Image doesn’t tell us what to do editorially. In fact, Image basically is self-publishing with all the benefits of a big house backing you up. Who could say no?
EJ: Right - we definitely weighed our options, but from the beginning Image was the place that we thought we'd fit best. At the time that we were looking the books that we saw coming out from Image were Violent Messiahs, The Red Star, Powers, The Bronze Age, etc. I mean they were putting out some seriously good books that were intelligently written and well illustrated, which was not always the case in the past.
Frankly, we were excited to see a "major" putting so much behind such good, offbeat, non-traditional books. I'm a big proponent of diversity in comics and seeing a major publisher putting out a really solid line up of books that, if they included cats in spandex at all, did so in the fringe. Interestingly, at the time that we were actively seeking Image out we were told by several sources that they weren't looking for books like Rex anymore, but wanted to focus mainly on superheroes. Thankfully those reports were wrong, and I'm really happy to see that they're continuing to nicely support their, sort of, "alternative" books as they roll out their new superhero line. I hope that continues, and I've a good feeling it will with the support they've given us, Paradigm, Hawaiian Dick, Liberty Meadows, Stupid Comics, and continue to give to Powers and Violent Messiahs.
It's an interesting time in comics right now because there are more and more options to creators that want to do their own thing. In the beginning with Rex, we were going to do it in black and white, and for a black and white book there are really a number of good publishers to choose from, but when we decided to do Rex in color, really, Image became the only choice so far as we were concerned. Ultimately, Image was always my first choice, if from no more than a fanboy's point of view. I mean, I think you have to be stoked if the third largest publisher in comics is publishing your first work, but beyond that, Image offered the largest potential audience, as well as the most autonomy and full ownership of our title. Like Arvid said, who'd say no to that?
NRAMA: Something that struck me as interesting is that you mention the website in the comic, have a story in the comic that continues on it, and it obviously is…well, not essential to reading the story, it certainly is valuable. Why devote so much time and energy to it, though?
AN: One of the things I love most about science fiction epics like Dune is the glossary at the back. Before the web, you really couldn’t do that with a comic book in serial format. When Eric, Asa, the designer, and I made rexmundi.net, we didn’t just want an online advertisement for our comic—we wanted something that would elevate Rex Mundi above “just” a serial comic, and something that would raise the bar for comics in general. To that end, rexmundi.net is a compendium in the tradition of Dune, but it’s also much more because it’s interactive, it’s graphic, and best of all, best of all, it’s free. We’ve got a huge online dictionary, a Rex Mundi web comic called Brother Matthew, and so much more. I really hope people will take advantage of rexmundi.net. It was a labor of love for Eric, Asa and me, and it’s one of the ways we’re trying to give back to the comics reading community.
EJ: It's definitely about creating as complete an experience as possible. As Arvid said, sometimes the best part of really detailed stories and series like Dune, The Lord of the Rings, Star Trek, Star Wars, etc. is that there's so much for the reader to get caught up in, and to help make the world and story feel more real, which is the point, if only for brief periods of time.
Beyond that, Arvid and I are both strong believers in creating as detailed a world as possible to increase believability. That means that there are parts of the world that we know about, that inform our decisions on how to tell this part of the story or that, but that, without a resource other than the story itself, you, the reader, would never know about. With a resource other than the story that can inform you of these sort of ancillary, even extraneous in some cases, details your enjoyment of the story can be increased, and, hopefully instead of just reading the story you can come closer to experiencing it. And let's be really honest, we've put a lot of hard work into creating a world that's as detailed and "real" as possible, and a lot of that won't be directly used. Some of it's pretty cool, you know? And we'd like to use it, and or let people know about it, just because.
But, seriously, readers that have been following Rex Mundi: Brother Matthew on the web, even though it's not essential to the main story, are going to get a richer experience reading the main story because they'll already be somewhat familiar with the Inquisition, for instance. And, ultimately it's our way of trying to give our readers as much as we possibly can to enjoy Rex Mundi and it's spin-offs as much as possible. It's the same idea behind the newspaper in the back of the book, which we've done since the first black and white version back in 2000, before we even had a website, and will continue to include in every issue. The trick is to include that information to increase enjoyment, but not be essential to it, and I think as long as we're conscious of the distinction we'll be able to avoid getting so caught up in the extra details that it makes the story impenetrable for the less vigorous reader.
NRAMA: Finally, not to throw cold water on the comics, but, to put it bluntly, why take Rex Mundi to comics? The story is solid enough that it could be easily seen as a film, where it would undoubtedly reach a much wider audience. Why go for the print edition, rather than pitch it as a movie or television series?
AN: Comics are just about the only medium that really allow us the creative freedom we need to make this story the way we want it to be. Rex Mundi is as long as a two-season television miniseries, but it also requires the creative mobility of an independent film and the budget of a gargantuan Hollywood blockbuster. Comics, for me, combine the best parts of independent film, Hollywood and television. At the end of the day, it’s the only way to do Rex Mundi right.
EJ: You know, hopefully down the road there will be a movie based on Rex Mundi, and hopefully Arvid, Jeromy Cox, our uber-talented colorist, and I will be intimately involved with it and it will be wonderful and blah, blah, blah.
But the comic is the fruit of three people and three people only, whereas any film will be the product of literally hundreds. By definition it would be watered down and not nearly as pure as it is now. Each set of hands that the story goes through creatively leaves an imprint, the Rex Mundi that you hold in your hands and read is not Arvid's purest vision because of me, it is not our purest vision because of Jeromy, but that's where it ends with the comic, not too far from the beginning. In film, in most cases, the beginning is a dot on the horizon in the distance, and the end product bears, sometimes not even a passing resemblance to what you started with. And that encompasses budgetary concerns, scheduling and conflicts with same, egos, etc., etc. Then there's the fact that if you have a visual representation of a story, something a film producer can see, not just read, like a pitch, or a screenplay, it makes it that much easier to visualize the film, which hopefully makes it a little more possible to keep any film that might be made relatively close to the source.
Thing is, for me, I love film, I want to act someday, Arvid wants to write and direct, Jeromy just got back from filming in Mexico on a new Russel Crow movie that he's going to be in. All three of us, basically, want to make films, so we definitely have aspirations in that direction, but comics will always be the first choice. Well, at least for me. There're no two ways around it, in comics we have both the ability to show our readers the amazing sets, costuming, acting and so on that we'd be looking for in a film based on Rex Mundi, without regard to the budgetary concerns that would be so restricting in film. You know, I'm a hell of a lot cheaper than a handful of medium to large stars, location permits, cranes, sets, film, cameras, planes and helicopters, travel and accommodations for a crew of hundreds, explosives, editors and equipment, etc., etc. We also have the flexibility and leisure in terms of length to explore so many nuances in the story that would probably be white washed for time considerations in a film. And let's not forget that we can do things in comics, thematically, that in film would be changed, subdued, or otherwise watered down in most cases because the powers that be might see them as risky or dangerous due to the money that's being invested and the necessity to reach as large an audience as possible. We get the best of all worlds.
Like I said, Arvid and I definitely love film, and hope to make films, even a Rex Mundi film someday, but comics are definitely the superior medium in my estimation.