DC SENIOR VP FIERMAN NO LONGER WITH PUBLISHER

[MattBrady]

<img src=http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/dclogoblue8jf.gif align=right border=0>Stephanie Fierman's tenure as DC Comics' Senior VP of Sales and Marketing has come to an end, this according to a statement by DC President and Publisher Paul Levitz issued to Newsarama Friday afternoon.

“Stephanie Fierman will no longer be in her current role at DC Comics,” reads Levitz’s statement. “She may be doing projects for us or working elsewhere within Time Warner.”

Fierman joined DC in January 2005 from a position at <i>Zagat’s</i> in what was then a newly created position at the publisher. For more on what Fierman’s responsibilities with DC were, she and VP – Sales Bob Wayne gave CSN/Newsarama’s Cliff Biggers <a href=http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26171>this interview</a> just a few days into her tenure.

Look for more information and analysis on this developing story soon here on Newsarama…

[Hobowatcher]

Heh, I just read about this from PW Comics mailing.

I miss the bullet.

[LucasSiegel]

Interesting- does this mean a promotion for Bob Wayne?

[The Marvel]

...and another woman goes by the wayside.

[qnetter]

...and another woman goes by the wayside.
Not an unpopular departure among other women in the office, however.

[Scorned1]

Why can't they just extend her contract? DC is doing pretty well since she was on the job. At least she is still within the circle of Time Warner.

[MattBrady]

...and another woman goes by the wayside. you're saying this change only happened because she was a woman?

MattB

[drew101]

Why can't they just extend her contract? DC is doing pretty well since she was on the job. At least she is still within the circle of Time Warner.

Maybe she wanted to leave or move to a different role in the company. Maybe her plan all along was to try to move to a more visible position within one of the other more high profile divisions of Time-Warner.

[khuxford]

Why can't they just extend her contract? DC is doing pretty well since she was on the job. At least she is still within the circle of Time Warner.

I don't know. OYL has been a sales failure in many respects. Maybe they felt part of that failure was due to shortcomings from her department. I have no idea though, as I haven't read the article that Matt linked to.

[AbacusComics]

The article doesn't say if it was her decision...

[GeorgeG]

Bob Wayne: At this point, Stephanie hasn’t been here for very long—we’re talking only a few days thus far, and some of those we had a lot of snow, so she wasn’t working with a full staff—so Stephanie’s still learning this business and how we do things. There’s no rigid set of rules that Paul [Levitz, DC's President & Publisher] gave her to come in on Day One and accomplish. Check back with us in six months and we’ll see if anything has changed.

The main thing we want to stress, though, is that nothing is changing regarding DC’s commitment, my commitment, Paul’s commitment to the core market, the direct market. This remains our core market; we are aware of that and we appreciate that.


I don't know, it didn't exactly sound all warm & fuzzy.

[Batwing]

After reading that interview, it seems Stephanie's job was to, what else, attract new readers and truth be told, in the two years she had the job, she didn't accomplish that goal. There's no denying that 52 is doing gangbusters, but overall, DC (nor Marvel for that matter) have been able to truly grow and keep their audience beyond the lifelong fanboys and capitalize on the success of their properties for some time. There's been a few new readers here and there, but the adult nature of today's comics has driven away many of the old school fans so it kinda balances out. I think the last time either of the big two truly succeeded in bringing new readers in was Marvel with USM.

It's not all her fault because even the best marketing and sales plan can't make up for bad writing, poor artwork and late books, but I haven't really noticed a change in marketing from DC since she was hired, at least, nothing that struck me as different. Strictly from a promotional standpoint, they failed to expand on the success of the JLU toon (though this was a problem prior to Stephanie's arrival). For heaven's sake, the DVDs were released by Warner Bros and yet the sets didn't come with free comics or special features that highlighted the character on the show! How about an extra DVD that contained an single self contained issue of every character that appeared or a reprint of one of they're most famous stories? The main romantic pairing on the show (John and Shayera) are currently non-existent in the current DCU (one's dead and the other is awol) and there hasn't been any attempt to do reach out to the millions of viewers . JLU was a more adult themed show and DC, like the fools they are, created a comic off it aimed at kids. :rolleyes:

How about Batman? Nolan and Goyer crafted what is arguably the best comic book film ever and yet, post-BB and prior to OYL, sales were down on the title and though creative (editorial, writers, artists) is most likely at fault, where was the marketing for the book? Superman Returns was well received by critics and the majority of non-comic fans I know loved it, but they have no idea where to buy his title. If I never visited my LCS, I wouldn't know if Batman and Superman were still being published, much less the other heroes. They don't appear in any of the daily newspaper or magazine ads where I live and I'm in NYC!

And if the Zagat she came from is the same one I know (the restaurant survey company), then I have no idea how she landed the job of senior VP of sales and marketing of comic books. It's true that fresh new minds are sometimes needed to see things people within the business can't see, but the risk is that you wind up with a person in charge who lacks intricate knowledge of the product they're pushing.

I'd like to know if Stephanie was handcuffed? Did she try and do new and different things but ran into a wall of resistance from editorial? It doesn't matter who DC hires or fires because it seems editorial is in control and they've lost their damn minds. They've really blown it post OYL and if it weren't for 52, they'd be in real trouble because the OYL stunt hasn't worked as it should have. It was supposed to be a jumping on point for new readers but it's clear more people are jumping off. I will stress, again, that it's not all sales and marketing's fault. The arrogant and lackadaisical manner in which DC has gone about its publishing schedule as well as their refusal to grow new characters is more to blame.

Comics have been around for a long time, but they'll always be a niche market and will continue to be as long as they refuse to grow. The blatant placation of the hardcore fanboys and nostalgic (but soon to be dead) silver age crowd doesn't help attract new youthful readers either. When you bring back Hal Jordan, you run the risk of alienating the people who grew up reading Kyle Rayner and confuse the ones who watched John Stewart on TV the last five years.

DC needs to figure out what direction to take the company in and when they do, then they'll know exactly who, how and where to market their titles. Until then, it doesn't matter if the person in charge is male, female or a fat bunny named Cocoa, the same "attract new readers" problem will continue to perpetually plague the company.

[Charlie Hustle]

...and another woman goes by the wayside.

Ah god bless chivalry, sexism for the people who like to lie to themselves.

[Zugernaut]

Batwing,

As someone who works in marketing, I could not agree more. If DC and Marvel just want to keep pushing product to the fanboys, then they can save money by eliminating such positions, since they're all fanboys themselves. And there's certainly no need to hire women for such positions--sorry, but it's true. But if they truly want to grow the business, then they need to grow up, hire good people from all walks of life with real marketing experience, and then--most importantly--actually listen to them.

Now I'm not entirely knocking the niche market; I suppose I'm something of a fanboy myself, and serving that market does allow for a certain kind of freedom regarding content that seems to please the fanboy creators. But ultimately I think it's shortsighted. Certainly the sequential art medium will survive in some form, but if these two companies continue serving only this small group, the superhero monthly will go the way of the pulps, and conventions will soon consist only doddering old men in Spider-Man t-shirts and Green Lantern symbols on the sides of their wheelchairs.

[BGSU]

I blame OYL's trouble on editorial/writing decisions more than publicity. I thought it as a wonderful, wonderful idea with so much potential but many [not all] of the stories were not executed that well.
I agree 100% that they should have marketed comics with those film/DVDs that have been mentioned. Of course though, Tim Burton's Batman film was also a huge success and they didn't include those things in the marketing.
I don't think Marvel's marketing [in terms of the general public] is that great either but I think it appears to be a step above DCs.
Either way, this is someone's job were talking about. Not a plot point. I wish her well and good luck in her other position in TimeWarner

[EvilErnie13]

...and another woman goes by the wayside.
you're saying this change only happened because she was a woman?

MattB
Yeah, I think that's what The Marvel is saying... :)

[OM]

IEither way, this is someone's job were talking about. Not a plot point. ...Wait! We've still got 17 issues of 52 to go, yet! Don't be hasty here :)

you're saying this change only happened because she was a woman? ...Quite probably so. Remember, Matty, his comment isn't just trolling. We've recently had a female DC staffer go all willy-nilly on her 'blog over harassment at the DC offices, and other female creators over the years have made similar claims. So who knows? Maybe they're just cleaning house to save the Old Boys' Club from being destroyed by all them wimmens making them quit running round the office in their shorts and drinking beer, eh? The real tell-all will be when she starts claiming Didio tried to pinch her tush at the Chrisnukkah party - quick! Someone check that house ad to see if she's in there! - or Giffen based a redshirted Everyman hero on her looks and personality, or she admits she was chummy with the aforementioned blogging staffer and was fired for association with the enemy.

And then again, she may have been fired because she simply did not get the job done she was hired to do. That happens, kids. Not all firings are for personal and/or biased reasons. Some people really do get fired instead of promoted for doing a s'hitty job...

As someone who works in marketing, I could not agree more. If DC and Marvel just want to keep pushing product to the fanboys, then they can save money by eliminating such positions, since they're all fanboys themselves. And there's certainly no need to hire women for such positions--sorry, but it's true. But if they truly want to grow the business, then they need to grow up, hire good people from all walks of life with real marketing experience, and then--most importantly--actually listen to them. ...And once again, everyone misses the point. It's not bad marketing(*) that's keeping the comics out of the hands of everyone save the addicted fanboys, it's the goddamn price. 32 pages, of which maybe 21 are actual story, with lame-assed ads interjected at the most annoying places, for ~$3-6.00 USD, isn't competitively priced, it's clear price gouging. The industry has been taking the Drug Pusher Business Model to heart and practice for almost two decades now, and it's pretty obvious: keep raising the price, give less for what the little addicts pay for, and they'll sell their grandmothers to get an extra fix to make up for the difference.

Is it truly any wonder that people scan and post hot-off-the-press comics to BitTorrent with this sort of wallet rape going on?


(*) Oriion being one of the rare examples where proper marketing would still have Walt Simonson doing that book.

[Kolimar]

Hmm... Interesting move.

[Kolimar]

...And once again, everyone misses the point. It's not bad marketing(*) that's keeping the comics out of the hands of everyone save the addicted fanboys, it's the goddamn price. 32 pages, of which maybe 21 are actual story, with lame-assed ads interjected at the most annoying places, for ~$3-6.00 USD, isn't competitively priced, it's clear price gouging. The industry has been taking the Drug Pusher Business Model to heart and practice for almost two decades now, and it's pretty obvious: keep raising the price, give less for what the little addicts pay for, and they'll sell their grandmothers to get an extra fix to make up for the difference.

Is it truly any wonder that people scan and post hot-off-the-press comics to BitTorrent with this sort of wallet rape going on?


(*) Oriion being one of the rare examples where proper marketing would still have Walt Simonson doing that book.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: I wholeheartedly agree the price is too damn high for half an hour of entertainment (at best), even if we can re-read it. That said, I also think the marketing department is failing miserably.

[Kolimar]

After reading that interview, it seems Stephanie's job was to, what else, attract new readers and truth be told, in the two years she had the job, she didn't accomplish that goal. There's no denying that 52 is doing gangbusters, but overall, DC (nor Marvel for that matter) have been able to truly grow and keep their audience beyond the lifelong fanboys and capitalize on the success of their properties for some time. There's been a few new readers here and there, but the adult nature of today's comics has driven away many of the old school fans so it kinda balances out. I think the last time either of the big two truly succeeded in bringing new readers in was Marvel with USM.

It's not all her fault because even the best marketing and sales plan can't make up for bad writing, poor artwork and late books, but I haven't really noticed a change in marketing from DC since she was hired, at least, nothing that struck me as different. Strictly from a promotional standpoint, they failed to expand on the success of the JLU toon (though this was a problem prior to Stephanie's arrival). For heaven's sake, the DVDs were released by Warner Bros and yet the sets didn't come with free comics or special features that highlighted the character on the show! How about an extra DVD that contained an single self contained issue of every character that appeared or a reprint of one of they're most famous stories? The main romantic pairing on the show (John and Shayera) are currently non-existent in the current DCU (one's dead and the other is awol) and there hasn't been any attempt to do reach out to the millions of viewers . JLU was a more adult themed show and DC, like the fools they are, created a comic off it aimed at kids. :rolleyes:

How about Batman? Nolan and Goyer crafted what is arguably the best comic book film ever and yet, post-BB and prior to OYL, sales were down on the title and though creative (editorial, writers, artists) is most likely at fault, where was the marketing for the book? Superman Returns was well received by critics and the majority of non-comic fans I know loved it, but they have no idea where to buy his title. If I never visited my LCS, I wouldn't know if Batman and Superman were still being published, much less the other heroes. They don't appear in any of the daily newspaper or magazine ads where I live and I'm in NYC!

And if the Zagat she came from is the same one I know (the restaurant survey company), then I have no idea how she landed the job of senior VP of sales and marketing of comic books. It's true that fresh new minds are sometimes needed to see things people within the business can't see, but the risk is that you wind up with a person in charge who lacks intricate knowledge of the product they're pushing.

I'd like to know if Stephanie was handcuffed? Did she try and do new and different things but ran into a wall of resistance from editorial? It doesn't matter who DC hires or fires because it seems editorial is in control and they've lost their damn minds. They've really blown it post OYL and if it weren't for 52, they'd be in real trouble because the OYL stunt hasn't worked as it should have. It was supposed to be a jumping on point for new readers but it's clear more people are jumping off. I will stress, again, that it's not all sales and marketing's fault. The arrogant and lackadaisical manner in which DC has gone about its publishing schedule as well as their refusal to grow new characters is more to blame.

Comics have been around for a long time, but they'll always be a niche market and will continue to be as long as they refuse to grow. The blatant placation of the hardcore fanboys and nostalgic (but soon to be dead) silver age crowd doesn't help attract new youthful readers either. When you bring back Hal Jordan, you run the risk of alienating the people who grew up reading Kyle Rayner and confuse the ones who watched John Stewart on TV the last five years.

DC needs to figure out what direction to take the company in and when they do, then they'll know exactly who, how and where to market their titles. Until then, it doesn't matter if the person in charge is male, female or a fat bunny named Cocoa, the same "attract new readers" problem will continue to perpetually plague the company.

Some good points there. Particularly

It's true that fresh new minds are sometimes needed to see things people within the business can't see, but the risk is that you wind up with a person in charge who lacks intricate knowledge of the product they're pushing.

[Mike Cruz]

I'm not fully sure that Fierman's departure is a bad thing, for her. Bob Wayne, from what I've read and from my observations of him at the various Cons, is a very difficult individual to get along with both personally and professionally. I think that prior to Fierman's hiring, Wayne and DC may have been looking at parting ways. I think that if Fierman's has found job somewhere within the Time Warner family of companies, it's her parting shot the message being "Ok, boys, so now do it without me."

I last saw Wayne at SDCC in July '06 and he was lamenting the fact that he wasn't asked to do any panels that year. That's telling, to me. in '05 and '04, Wayne was at virtually every DC panel. Why the sudden invisibility act?

I don't know, but I'm looking forward to seeing a news statement about DC restructuring or Wayne leaving DC altogether.

[BGSU]

...And once again, everyone misses the point. It's not bad marketing(*) that's keeping the comics out of the hands of everyone save the addicted fanboys, it's the goddamn price.

Agree 100% but with an asterick. They should put an alternate version comics out on cheap paper again and sell them at a cheap price in Wal-Mart, Eckard, etc. If my kid came up to and said "Dad can I get this comic, it's $1" or $1.50, whatever, I'm more likely to give it to him, for $3 or MORE though? I can get a lot with $3 if I'm watching my money. And I can forget about the value of the book. Few 6-10 yr. olds keep it in mint. So really, I'm throwing the money away if I buy it for him. Often I'm okay with that but I'm a lot quicker to throw away $1 than I am $3-4.
If the costs are due to the paper, coloring, etc. than just don't do it. I'm a reader first, collector/investor a distant distant second.

[Zugernaut]

.

...And once again, everyone misses the point. It's not bad marketing(*) that's keeping the comics out of the hands of everyone save the addicted fanboys, it's the goddamn price. 32 pages, of which maybe 21 are actual story, with lame-assed ads interjected at the most annoying places, for ~$3-6.00 USD, isn't competitively priced, it's clear price gouging. The industry has been taking the Drug Pusher Business Model to heart and practice for almost two decades now, and it's pretty obvious: keep raising the price, give less for what the little addicts pay for, and they'll sell their grandmothers to get an extra fix to make up for the difference.



I'm not sure what you think marketing is, but marketing involves everything from content to price to distribution, and more. Successful marketing requires that all aspects of producing and selling a product work together. So yes, the price is too high. But if you think just cutting the price is going to send the masses into comic shops, you're delusional.

[GeorgeG]

if she wasn't doing her job or didn't get the job done, or whatever--can't you say the same for the people who have been there well before her and still remain?

Shouldn't DC let go of their ENTIRE sales staff?

[OM]

I'm not sure what you think marketing is, but marketing involves everything from content to price to distribution, and more. ...Son, I'm more than familiar with what marketing involves. I also know they're responsible for a *lot* of the mistakes made in pretty much any consumable industry. From personal experience I know that most marketers have almost AbZero understanding of what the public wants and how it relates to how much they'll pay for it. They're trained from Day One not to give the consumer what they want, but to come up with something that's cheap and easy to manufacture and make the consumer *think* it's what they want.

Trust me, if two catamites posing as marketing goons for a Big Computer Company with a Little Four-Letter Name hadn't turned down my 64-page proposal, said company would have beaten TiVo to the market by two years. I *know* what they can do, and can't....

So yes, the price is too high. But if you think just cutting the price is going to send the masses into comic shops, you're delusional....Well, by that "logic", then the price *increases* shouldn't have dropped the sales numbers over the years, then.

"Delusional". Please.

[Shakes head in mild dismay]

Agree 100% but with an asterick. They should put an alternate version comics out on cheap paper again and sell them at a cheap price in Wal-Mart, Eckard, etc. If my kid came up to and said "Dad can I get this comic, it's $1" or $1.50, whatever, I'm more likely to give it to him, for $3 or MORE though? I can get a lot with $3 if I'm watching my money. And I can forget about the value of the book. Few 6-10 yr. olds keep it in mint. So really, I'm throwing the money away if I buy it for him. Often I'm okay with that but I'm a lot quicker to throw away $1 than I am $3-4.
If the costs are due to the paper, coloring, etc. than just don't do it. I'm a reader first, collector/investor a distant distant second....Agreed. In fact, what I've been arguing all along is that comics, for the amount of content, should in no way, shape or form be priced more than $1.25 - $1.50 USD, with exceptions such as TPB and Prestige printings, natch. If the justification is they're giving us higher quality paper, then go to a lesser quality. They may make less money per issue, but they'll make it up on volume, and above all else they'll be getting back the kids market that they've lost when we all got older.

[Zugernaut]

Trust me, if two catamites posing as marketing goons for a Big Computer Company with a Little Four-Letter Name hadn't turned down my 64-page proposal, said company would have beaten TiVo to the market by two years. I *know* what they can do, and can't....



Yeah, my dad invented TV back in the 20s, but the marketing guys said no one wanted pictures with their sound. Would have been stinking rich.

Show me the profits comics companies are pulling in by "gouging" consumers. Show me the printers that are just sitting around waiting to crank out product on cheap newsprint again. Show me all of the retail stores that are just waiting to stock comics again. And show me the research that people are going to un into comic shops to buy this product, as is, at a lower price. Nope, I don't buy it. Price is obviously one factor, but to really hit the mainstream the business model would have to be completely rebuilt, including content oriented toward the desired audience (and, if I may say so, the notion that a business can exist with creators turning in work whenever they get around to it).

Sorry, but the idea of just cutting prices is naive. It assumes that everyone would want to snap up a niche product if it wasn't so expensive. Would everyone buy an iPod if it cost $5? Probably. Would everyone buy 52 if the complete collection cost $5? No. It's like thinking a Bad Religion album would go platinum if it only cost $1. Sure, you would get increased sales, but most of those sales would be the result of current buyers buying more books. I would bet it would only bring you a marginal increase in actual audience.

[OM]

Yeah, my dad invented TV back in the 20s, but the marketing guys said no one wanted pictures with their sound. Would have been stinking rich.....Unlike your dad, I have the documentation to prove it, as well as the rejection memo that explained their decision, all of which was based on the fear - yes, fear - of the wiMPAAs and the mafRIAA over copyright and piracy issues. And two years later, when TiVo took off, there were marketing dorks at this company scrambling for their own version, only to get shot down by their own bosses because - you guessed it - "it's already been done".

...However, I'm not really interested in getting into a pissing match with you, even though I've got my copy of the proposal here in front of me. The Bottom Line is that comics are, quite simply, price gouged, and *that* is what's keeping new readers from getting interested outside of sneaking a read at the stands. It's what's keeping the kids from getting into the hobby, because their parents can't justify $3-$5 USD for something that should be priced $1.00 - $1.50 USD. Dope Pusher Economics are in play here, and if anyone's arguments are "naive", it's yours. Either that, or you're simply shilling for the publishers.

[hebitudinous]

Hey Om -

Settle down. People get fired every day and these boards tend to generate more acrimony than I think people intend. As someone that has never met you, you're not coming across as very fair minded. I'm sure you've got a perspective that matters in there somewhere, but your choice of wording is not respectful to other points of view.

It would be interesting to get a retailer's perspective on what DC could be doing differently. Brian Hibbs does a great job of providing this kind of perspective; it would be interesting to be a "fly on the wall" to understand what happened with Humanoids; how the theatricals could have been leveraged better; and how DC's views on multi-channel retail have changed.

One fly in the ointment is the emergence of digital copies; "free" is a huge alternative to comics at any price, and the nature of the business is changing as hardcore fans have been given an enormous platform to point out continuity gaffes, which I believe has a cumulative, potentially chilling effect on the consumer's enjoyment of the product and the publisher's willingness to take creative risks.

[Zugernaut]

...However, I'm not really interested in getting into a pissing match with you, even though I've got my copy of the proposal here in front of me. The Bottom Line is that comics are, quite simply, price gouged, and *that* is what's keeping new readers from getting interested outside of sneaking a read at the stands. It's what's keeping the kids from getting into the hobby, because their parents can't justify $3-$5 USD for something that should be priced $1.00 - $1.50 USD. Dope Pusher Economics are in play here, and if anyone's arguments are "naive", it's yours. Either that, or you're simply shilling for the publishers.


Show me the profits comics companies are pulling in by "gouging" consumers. Show me the printers that are just sitting around waiting to crank out product on cheap newsprint again. Show me all of the retail stores that are just waiting to stock comics again. And show me the research that people are going to un into comic shops to buy this product, as is, at a lower price. Nope, I don't buy it. Price is obviously one factor, but to really hit the mainstream the business model would have to be completely rebuilt, including content oriented toward the desired audience (and, if I may say so, the notion that a business can exist with creators turning in work whenever they get around to it).

Again: show me.

[OM]

Settle down. People get fired every day and these boards tend to generate more acrimony than I think people intend. As someone that has never met you, you're not coming across as very fair minded. I'm sure you've got a perspective that matters in there somewhere, but your choice of wording is not respectful to other points of view. ...Son, I call things as I see them, and I'm usually pretty dead-on with my interpretations. I don't play the "false nicety" game, so if the way I word things bothers you, deal with it.

...If anyone needs to be told to "settle down", it's Zugernaut. If he needs to be shown anything, it's the backside of a very large hand impacting his face at the velocity required to wake him up from his delusions.

[Shakes head in utter dismay]

[Zugernaut]

...Son, I call things as I see them, and I'm usually pretty dead-on with my interpretations. I don't play the "false nicety" game, so if the way I word things bothers you, deal with it.

...If anyone needs to be told to "settle down", it's Zugernaut. If he needs to be shown anything, it's the backside of a very large hand impacting his face at the velocity required to wake him up from his delusions.

[Shakes head in utter dismay]


Wishing physical violence upon me. Nice.

And all because I said that if you thought cutting prices would solve all the problems of the comics industry, you were delusional.

For that I deserve the back of your hand across my face? Because I called you out for being wrong?

That's pretty pathetic.

I think it's worth noting that you've offered absolutely nothing in the way of argument after your initial--clearly unsupported--claim that dropping prices was the answer.

Is this what you do in person--threaten violence against people who disagree with you?

[GeorgeG]

Wishing physical violence upon me. Nice.

And all because I said that if you thought cutting prices would solve all the problems of the comics industry, you were delusional.

For that I deserve the back of your hand across my face? Because I called you out for being wrong?

That's pretty pathetic.

I think it's worth noting that you've offered absolutely nothing in the way of argument after your initial--clearly unsupported--claim that dropping prices was the answer.

Is this what you do in person--threaten violence against people who disagree with you?


No offense, but why is he "wrong" as you say? Because you say so?

I think pricing is defintely one of the problems. Not making comics returnable (as most magazines are) is another. Distribution as well.

And OM, calling someone "son" is condescending. You can get your point(s) across w/out resorting to implications of physical altercations--real or virtual--and condescending attitudes.

[Zugernaut]

No offense, but why is he "wrong" as you say? Because you say so?

I think pricing is defintely one of the problems. Not making comics returnable (as most magazines are) is another. Distribution as well.

And OM, calling someone "son" is condescending. You can get your point(s) across w/out resorting to implications of physical altercations--real or virtual--and condescending attitudes.


Well, I wasn't the one blowing hot air about how one simple fix would solve the problems of the industry. When someone did, I called that person out; I said that I agreed, pricing was indeed a problem, but only one among many. Distribution is a problem. And content is another big one. I think the idea of just dropping the price in isolation, disregarding any notion of printing costs, distribution, and other costs of production is ridiculous, just as I think the notion that the general public is dying to buy DCU and MU content--as is--and they're going to rush into comic shops to do so or more mainstream outlets are going to rush to put the stuff back on their shelves if only it were cheaper is likewise ridiculous. If someone can present me with any kind of realistic argument that that's the case, then let's hear it.

[wktf]

Not an unpopular departure among other women in the office, however.
Interesting comment. I used to work with Stephanie many, many years ago. What was the feedback of the other women in the office?

[MattBrady]

...If anyone needs to be told to "settle down", it's Zugernaut. If he needs to be shown anything, it's the backside of a very large hand impacting his face at the velocity required to wake him up from his delusions.

[Shakes head in utter dismay] No - aside from threatening violence, Bob, you've been called on your prices chestnut again. I've done it before as others are doing it now, and you've yet to explain a) how publishers are gouging the prices now, b) how the prices could be lowered (to a point that's lower than any other product on the shelf, btw - which brings a whole boatload of problems), and c) how these lower prices would increase readership. As I said, you bring this out every time, get all belligerent about it, never show any proof, talk down to anyone who questions or says anything that contradicts your ideas, and then assumes some kind of "victory" or "rightness" in your claims.

So - since you're still making the claims - can you explain maybe some them with reasons other than "I said so"?

MattB

[wktf]

I'm not sure what you think marketing is, but marketing involves everything from content to price to distribution, and more. Successful marketing requires that all aspects of producing and selling a product work together. So yes, the price is too high. But if you think just cutting the price is going to send the masses into comic shops, you're delusional.
Absolutely true. The four packaged goods-based classic four "Ps" of marketing are price, product, placement and promotion. All of this is continingent on fully understanding your competition, customer segments and keeping an eye toward profitability and other marketing objectives (such as market share, etc.) toward which a company may be driving. The integration of all this is critical to successful marketing.

[atomadam]

<img src=http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/dclogoblue8jf.gif align=right border=0>Stephanie Fierman's tenure as DC Comics' Senior VP of Sales and Marketing has come to an end, this according to a statement by DC President and Publisher Paul Levitz issued to Newsarama Friday afternoon.

“Stephanie Fierman will no longer be in her current role at DC Comics,” reads Levitz’s statement. “She may be doing projects for us or working elsewhere within Time Warner.”

Fierman joined DC in January 2005 from a position at <i>Zagat’s</i> in what was then a newly created position at the publisher. For more on what Fierman’s responsibilities with DC were, she and VP – Sales Bob Wayne gave CSN/Newsarama’s Cliff Biggers <a href=http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26171>this interview</a> just a few days into her tenure.

Look for more information and analysis on this developing story soon here on Newsarama…

Is she really gone? Not according to people saying they are employees (or were, or still are, or whatever). From Heidi's blog:

JOE CASTLEMAN SAYS:
01/16/07 at 10:11 am
Stephanie Fierman criticized by two people who were fired by DC Comics: Heidi MacDonald (ex Vertigo) and Vinnie Costa (ex Marketing)?? That’s rich.

I’ve been in DC marketing since Bob Wayne ran it and the answer to Vinnie’s “when did comics stop being fun?” answer for the rest of us was the last 2 years that Vinnie worked here. He got fired for badmothing his bosses Fletch and John Cunningham and a lot of other stuff and was tossed out of the building. Stephanie Fierman had nothng to do with it.

And as for Stephanie, we are all freaked out right now. If she’s going at all, since she’s a DC employee until 2008 - no one knows what Paul means by projects. She was great for this company and a really fair, smart boss that cares about her team. We are still her team. She did a bunch of good stuff on the book side and wasn’t against comics - just wondered why we do the same stuff we did 10 years ago. That was too much for Vertigo and Creative Services, 4 sure. So off she goes.

This is what sucks about tthe web. Anybody can say whatever they want — especially fired ex-employees. It’s too bad Stephanie Fierman is stuck with DC for another year — a few of us would like to go work for her somewher else.



THOMAS GERHARDT SAYS::
01/16/07 at 11:54 am
As is the case with most changes in publishing today, the internet seems to be an outlet to vent personal anger. Howver, Mr. Castleman – coming from somebody who is not involved in this in any way, shape or form, I must point out that Miss McDonald is doing her job as a journalist: she is reporting and gathering opinions from those people who have something to say or think they have something to say.

I have yet to see proof that she let her own feelings seep into her coverage.

That a high-level departure these days results in an obvious airing of dirty laundry is somewhat pars for the course.

On a personal note, I do applaud your loyalty, athough I am not quite sure if a sentence like “That was too much for Vertigo and Creative Service, 4 sure” will leave you with much of a career within DC.

Having worked on both sides, editorial and marketing, I have found an almost inbred mistrust between those departments in all of the companies I have worked for – silly, really (one of the reasons I went into consulting: you do not have to deal with turf wars. You go in, you do your job and you don’t have to care about which toes you might step on. Trust me, it give you an entirely different perspective).

Note to all editorial folks: listen to marketing people. Not all of them are morons, and if you want to develop a new property or new markets, use them and their knowledge to push your stuff further.

Note to all marketing people: If somebody in editorial tells you that “This cannot possibly be done”, don’t be arrogant and dismiss it right away. These folks usually know what they are talking about and often think that YOU should know all they do. Ask them why, sit down with them and preferably NOT in an office. Go to the nice coffee shop on (I think) 3rd and 22nd and talk like normal people.

This was brought to you free of charge

VINNIE COSTA SAYS:
01/16/07 at 12:32 pm
Joe,

For the record, I was not fired, I tendered my resignation in writing.

If you are going to criticize someone for speaking his mind, at least get your facts straight and don’t try to belittle it with falsehoods.

The reasons I quit are a matter of record and quite frankly none of your business, I have not badmouthed any current DC Employee in any way.

And the thing about the web Joe, you have to read what you don’t want to.


KATE WARNER SAYS:
01/16/07 at 1:09 pm
Vinne–don’t lie, those of us who were here know the situation pretty well.

As someone who still considers herself to be an employee of Stephanie Fierman, I have to say a lot of the glee and certitude going around regarding her departure from Sales & Marketing is premature and almost certainly to come back and bite people on the ass; Stephanie’s still with us, and we’ve all been informed very specifically that this decision was not performance-based in any way. Expect her to continue to be a powerful and important voice at DC Comics, regardless of what any of her ex-employees might think or wish.

JOE CASTLEMAN SAYS:
01/16/07 at 1:35 pm
I hear you, Thomas (and cool website by the way). But re Heidi and this blog - since she’s gotten Nellie’s tenure wrong and says that dc lost its book trade distributor — which is factually incorrect — Hachette bought Time Warner Book Group and continues to distribute for DC with nary a blip in the transition — she’s either biased, or just a really bad reporter.

And everyone in marketing worked with Nelie Kurtzman. Really nice person. Stephanie Fierman went out of her way to hire Nellie. I was kind of in the process - way out of her way. Nellie came for sentimental reasons because of her dad. When she quit, she told everyone that she had no idea that comics was such a backwards kind of business and that she knew right away that she couldn’t get anything done. Stephanie asked her to stay - Nellie’s question back was, why would anyone in marketng stay?

[Zugernaut]

Relevant, I think:

http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/busted/

Mainstream Comics - The People Speak!

By Beau Smith

The response from last week’s column on sex, politics and religion has nothing short of huge. There are a lot of people out there that feel very strongly about not only those topics, but the way that mainstream comics are being marketed, or to be more exact, not being marketed.

With over 600 responses the mood was one of fear. The tone of fear is that not enough is being done to update and broaden the consumer base. The majority of the readers that wrote me feel that the mainstream publishers do not know what the readers want and are not trying to find out.

Granted, this is only a little over 600 and it is all from the internet, but with the inconsistency of sales with the under top ten comics this is something that really needs to be addressed.

I’ve got to say I was surprised by the amount of retailers, creators and industry insiders that wrote and called with the same concerns and the wish to have their name left out of this. I understand that. Nobody likes being without a paycheck.

The general feeling was that mainstream publishers are doing super hero comics for their own entertainment and figure that if they like it their readers will like. Some of the creators that contacted me told me of editorial talks that were basically summed up as “If we tell the readers it’s cool they’ll believe us. What else do they have?”. They also mentioned that there is rarely, if any talk about stand alone stories, an interest to snare new readers or readers of all ages. The main goal is to write to the 20-55 age group and look no further. These creators know that sooner or later this group will fade, lose interest or die and there isn’t much being done to grow a new crop of readers.

The retailers that wrote me said that the only time they are heard is when someone raises a big public stink. Even then the publisher doesn’t try and change policy or address the problem as a whole, but they spray a little air freshener around the internet and hope that masks the problem for a little longer.

Yes, I did get input from some that things are perfect and that they are very happy with the way things are right now. Even a couple said I was a crabby person and unhappy because I’m not as pretty as Joe Quesada.

Of course I’m not… as pretty as Joe Quesada.

The system is broke on all levels. Make no mistake about that. More time should be put into how to advance and fix things rather than taking these comments as an attack. They aren’t. These remarks of mine, and the others that have written in, are like that of someone seeing a loved one with a broken arm that refuses to get it fixed.

Pay attention to what you buy. Take the time to see the bigger picture of mainstream comics and how they are being attended to. Take a few moments to think about the future of mainstream comics five to ten years down the road. If you really enjoy mainstream comics then consider these things. If you don’t then I guess you’ll be okay with the way they are.

[KateKane]

Interesting comment. I used to work with Stephanie many, many years ago. What was the feedback of the other women in the office?

The women at DC are a bit...stunned. With one notable exception, Stephanie was very highly regarded by the other women in the company. That one exception though just might be where the roots of her dismissal lie...I'd imagine anyone who knows much about the company can figure out who the most powerful woman left at the company is, and therein you'll find the answer.