WRITER KEVIN GREVIOUX TALKS MARVEL's NEW(est) WARRIORS [Archive]

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MattBrady

01-09-2007, 10:28 AM

<img src=http://www.newsarama.com/IDW/kghs.jpg border=0 align=right>A couple of weeks back Marvel Editor-in-Chief Joe Quesada revealed in his weekly Newsarama Q&A <a href=http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NewJoeFridays28.html >New Joe Fridays</a> that actor/writer Kevin Grevioux had been picked to helm a new, post-Civil War relaunch of the New Warriors.

Having spoken to Grevioux previously about his career and own comic book properties, we checked back with him to see what he could tell us and readers about his plans for these new New Warriors. While most of those more specific plans (including the team line-up) must remain under lock-and-key right now in order for Civil War and the post-War Marvel Universe to play itself out, the writer was able to share with us some details and thoughts on reviving the concept for Marvel in a June launching ongoing series.

And oh, before you ask, the series artist has to remain a mystery for now as well…

Newsarama: Kevin, first of all, New Warriors will not be your first comic book, nor is this even Newsarama's first interview with you, but many readers are probably taking notice of you with this announcement, so for them, can we review and have you give us a 30-sec bio?

Kevin Grevioux: Well, I’m a former microbiologist who quit grad school to become an actor/screenwriter in Hollywood. Even through I’ve written many scripts, some of which are in development or development hell, my first produced credit thus far is a movie based on my concept and original screenplay called Underworld. I’ve also been an actor in movies such as Planet of the Apes,Men in Black III,The Mask and most recently a Sci-Fi Channel movie called Slayer. I even played the voice of Solomon Grundy in the new The Batman animated series.

NRAMA: Interestingly you have several comic book influenced credits there. How about comic book writing/publishing experience to this point?

KG: A few years ago I decided to get into the comic book game, something I’ve always wanted to do, by creating my own comics and properties. I created two imprints, Astounding Studios which I use for my All-Ages line, and Darkstorm Studios which focuses on more mature titles, like your standard mainstream comics.

NRAMA: We’re going to provide links (<a href=http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?threadid=5775>here</a> and <a href=http://www.newsarama.com/Alias/HammerKid/HammerKidGrevioux.htm >here</a>) to our previous interviews with you about those titles and I’m sure we’ll speak to you again soon, but for now we’re going to focus on Marvel’s New Warriors.

How about the chicken or egg question? How did this title come about? Was Marvel seeking New Warriors pitches and you threw your hat into the ring?

KG: Not that I know of. I met Joe Quesada and Axel Alonso through a few contacts I had made. The most instrumental being C.B. Cebulski. Through him I was able to slide Joe and Axel some of my comics and they liked them. Then Joe Q. got in touch with me and thought I’d be perfect for a new incarnation of the New Warriors that they were toying with. The concept encompassed two things that they wanted to see:..

One, they wanted me to use certain characters, who I can’t tell you about. And two, absolutely no ______________. (Fans can fill in the blank, but I won’t!) From there it was up to me to come up with a method, motivation, and a tone that would accommodate what the editors wanted in the post-Civil War Marvel Universe.

NRAMA: So from there you came to Marvel with a pitch completely of your own?

KG: Like I said, only after Marvel gave me the parameters of the type of group they wanted and who was going to be in it. And based on that I had to come up with a solid pitch that could execute the direction in which they wanted to go. What’s funny is that I was actually very hesitant to take the job after Joe initially offered me the book. I always envisioned myself working on the Hulk, Thor, or the Fantastic Four, not the New Warriors, a book that had failed three times before. And I was thinking, “What can they possibly do to make the New Warriors succeed this time?”

But let’s face it; working for Marvel is a dream a lot of us Marvel fans have had since we were kids, so I really didn’t relish the idea of turning down a job working for them. But after I thought about it awhile I actually came up with a cool storyline and a way I could bring this concept to life. Now, I can’t see myself not doing this book. I’m having a blast and to be quite honest, it’s even more fun working on screenplays because you’re working with characters in a creative universe you’ve admired all your life.

NRAMA: So then how much of the final approved concept is your creation, and how much was any ideas that Marvel brought to the table?

KG: Very much of what I set out to create remained intact after my pitch was approved. However, the two parameters that Marvel set forth provided the template on which I tell the story. There was one particular way I felt the New Warriors should approach their status quo that I didn’t think was going to go over too well. An idea I had which was actually sparked from an old Fantastic Four arc during Stan and Jack’s run. Joe seemed to love it and it really opened up some cool story possibilities for me for the first as well as subsequent story arcs if sales permit.

NRAMA: With Civil War promising to affect so much in it's aftermath, and you already mentioning having to accommodate a post-Civil War status quo, can you talk the role that series and its soon-to-be-revealed conclusion plays in this new New Warriors concept?

KG: That will give too much away. But will tell you that no one wants the New Warriors around. They’re upsetting the apple cart so to speak. And on top of that they have the audacity, the nerve and the unmitigated gall to actually use the name “New Warriors” for their new super-group. That infuriates the public and the government.

And they will continue to play a prominent role in the post-Civil War Marvel Universe. These New Warriors are outlaws who have a real problem with not only superhero registration, but the way the whole world blames the previous group of New Warriors for what happened at Stamford. The New Warriors, the ones who were killed, have become the poster boys for superhero irresponsibility and arrogance. A label this new group feels is totally unfair and unwarranted. Not buying any of this, the New Warriors feel that it’s up to them to bring respect and reverence back to the name New Warriors and they mean to do it by any means necessary…authority be hanged.

The mere fact that they’re using the name “New Warriors” after all that has happened has set the authorities against them…

NRAMA: If you're a comic book fan, particularly a Marvel comic book fan, you're probably aware the original Fabian Nicieza incarnation of the concept has achieved a cult status over the years.

So first off, can you describe your feelings regarding that original run, and what relationship does your new series have with it?

KG: Well, at first I didn’t like it. I felt that it was an obvious attempt to create a young Teen Titans style super-group over at Marvel. Which was interesting because I never felt Marvel needed a team of teenaged heroes in the same way DC did. Marvel’s young heroes like Spider-Man, the Human Torch or any of the X-Men where actually full-fledged heroes in their own right, not teenaged sidekicks or miniature versions of adult heroes. So when they made their first appearance in Thor, I really didn’t dig it too much.

However, once Fabian Nicieza and Mark Bagley started their actual run I gave it a try. And after I read the first issue I was hooked. Their run remains the seminal incarnation of the team to date in my opinion.

But this new incarnation is a complete departure from that original concept. Our goal is not to erase or disrespect what has gone before but build on the great things the other creative teams before us have done in the past. As such, you will see a familiar face on this new team to bridge the old with the new. Who that is, you’ll just have to read the book to find out.

NRAMA: How you feel as a writer preparing a new launch, co-existing with what's become that cult-ish incarnation of the concept? Is it a benefit do you feel to have that to play off of? Is it a shadow you have to come out from under?

KG: I think it’s a great challenge and one that I welcome. At all times you want to pay homage to what went on before. Without Fabian, we wouldn’t be able to do what we’re doing now. At the same time, it’s necessary for us to make our particular mark on the mythos and make this incarnation of the New Warriors the best than it can be.

NRAMA: And how about the latest incarnation - the New Warriors as reality TV stars? Can I ask for your thoughts on that and can you remark if and how you incorporate that into your new series?

KG: I thought the last New Warriors book was an interesting approach. It took what was contemporary in our culture and found a way to tell a cool tongue n’cheek type of story within a shared superhero universe. But given what’s happened at Stamford, there’s really only one way to approach that last incarnation with this new series, and that’s from the standpoint that it was a very dark moment in the New Warrior’s history. It started off as a fun concept, but that ended up being the impetus for the tragedy that became Civil War.

Given that, it winds up casting a long dark shadow over the new series. These kids are here to redeem the name of the New Warriors. So the tragedy of the Stamford incident will always be there as a reminder.

NRAMA: We’re going to make the assumption this new New Warriors at least partially involves young heroes, and the Marvel playground for younger, teen heroes has gotten a little crowded since the original creation of the team.

The Young Avengers seemingly fill the official youth/in-training branch of the Avengers role. The New X-Men for the X-Men. The Runaways have some of that rebellious/on-their-own vibe of the original Warriors, with the upcoming Loners seeming looking to tap into that vibe as well.

So can you speak at all as to what role … what niche … the new New Warriors will fill to make them unique in the Marvel Universe landscape?

KG: These new New Warriors are more rebellious. Probably more rebellious than any super-team we’ve seen in some time. And probably more rebellious than Cap’s crew was. Their thinking is that there are people out there who need their help and you can never have enough heroes. That’s like saying there are too many good Samaritans around. That’s ridiculous.

Unfortunately, the public doesn’t see it that way, and because of that the group has become a serious political liability to the powers-that-be. Not only in America, but the world. And the methods they use to implement their personal crusade are really going to get under a lot of peoples skin. A lot of powerful people.

We’ll also be seeing a crossover with Dan Slott’s The Initiative as well as a few other titles. This book is one where we are going to have guest-stars galore!

NRAMA: Okay Kevin, finally, any parting thoughts, first impressions for fans to hold them over until the wait for the launch?

KG: That this book is really going to have a lot of fun and mystery. We’ll be meeting old friends and creating some new ones as well. We think fans of both the old and new teams will really dig it.

KyleCowstar

01-09-2007, 10:47 AM

I'll try it if the characers and art interest me.

scottmdavis

01-09-2007, 10:48 AM

cool beans. underworld was pretty sweet eye candy, pop corn flick.

new warriors looks to be in good hands.

Kal Lor-Van

01-09-2007, 10:53 AM

Can't wait to read it and see who's on the roster. Sounds like a good way to continue N.W.

aceatkins

01-09-2007, 10:54 AM

Dino1963

01-09-2007, 10:56 AM

Why do they do interviews when they can't really say anything about the series? Wait until they can. A very dull interview and until I hear some actual ideas, I have no interest. And why would any group of heroes want to be called the New Warriors after CW is beyond me. If they want to be rebels or something, call themselves the New Rebels. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

ChrisClark

01-09-2007, 10:57 AM

cool beans. underworld was pretty sweet eye candy, pop corn flick.

new warriors looks to be in good hands.

I was a huuuuuggggee fan of the original series, and I think you're right. At it's best, the Mark and Fabian run was a sweet eye candy/popcorn comic book. There were great stories, don't get me wrong. But it was a fun book. As long as they keep this fun (and fun doesn't necessarily preclude dark and moody, at least not in my opinion), I'm on board.

I'm very interested in who the artist will be, and even more interested in who the familiar face will be...

Absolutely no _____________

Is that mutants? That would eliminate both Vance and Angelica from the running as "familiar face". But if it was Absolutely no Speedball, then I think we're looking at either Justice or Firestar in the familiar face role. Probably Angel, since Vance seems more likely to go government.

Ken B.

01-09-2007, 10:59 AM

Punchy

01-09-2007, 10:59 AM

I think the fact that Grevioux has expressed a love for the old NW series will endear this to a lot of fans.

I think this sounds pretty good, the idea of a team setting out to piss off authority is a good one, and the perfect clash with Young Avengers, who are a bit to reverent for me. And since it looks like Runaways is going to hit some scheduling problems with Whedon I need some anti-authority stuff.

Ideas on who the link with the old team is? I'm thinking Justice or Firestar, they aren't doing anything lately, and with Speedball all emo'd up, Nova off being Space bad-ass #1 and everyone else dead, they'd fit.

sebzero11

01-09-2007, 10:59 AM

Snikkas

01-09-2007, 11:00 AM

Which New Warrriors didn't die in Stamford?

For example, does this mean a return of Firestar, Justice, and Nova?

I also liked the Nicieza/Bagley run, but I feel that the team was at its most successful with Night Thrasher as the leader. If he's gone, and his motivation is gone, why is there a team?

Unless it's a government sponsored post-Civil War team.

Bevbos

01-09-2007, 11:01 AM

My larger concern, though, is that I didn't get a definitive take on what the point of this team is versus Young Avengers and Runaways. Saying "they're REALLY the rebels" is a little vague/disingenuous. Through the entire run of its first volume the Young Avengers were blatantly disregarding orders and saving people because they knew people needed to be saved. And The Runaways continue to do that. If this book doesn't have a clear, differentiating theme that's three strikes against it for many comic readers.

Well, as to the differentiating theme, it could be violence. These could be the "Junior Punishers".

It's a sorry time for "old school" fans, what with Thunderbolts and New Warriors seemingly being thrown out with the bathwater, but it's a GREAT time for people like me, who like to see shocking new takes on old properties, and new characters.

I'll at least give this a shot.

And damn you, Marvel, for burdening my wallet with so many interesting projects!!!! :mad:

ChrisClark

01-09-2007, 11:07 AM

It's a sorry time for "old school" fans, what with Thunderbolts and New Warriors seemingly being thrown out with the bathwater, but it's a GREAT time for people like me, who like to see shocking new takes on old properties, and new characters.

Well, not all "old school" fans are resistant to change. I happen to love what they've done with Speedball over in Frontline. I think Robbie had gone about as far as he could go as the happy-go-lucky kid who bounced off stuff. Yay for change, I say.

Bevbos

01-09-2007, 11:08 AM

Well, not all "old school" fans are resistant to change. I happen to love what they've done with Speedball over in Frontline. I think Robbie had gone about as far as he could go as the happy-go-lucky kid who bounced off stuff. Yay for change, I say.

Me too. I consider myself a fan of old school stuff... that's why I put "old school" in quotes, because there are a large, vocal contingent of fans here these days who feel that their favorite comics are being "ruined". Whereas I, or perhaps we, feel the old stuff was good and the new stuff looks good as well.

To return to the subject at hand... has anyone counted the number of characters in the "____"? That could be a clue. I'm too lazy to do so, however. Someone make it happen!

ChrisClark

01-09-2007, 11:10 AM

To return to the subject at hand... has anyone counted the number of characters in the "____"? That could be a clue. I'm too lazy to do so, however. Someone make it happen!

Fourteen. :confused:

Not sure what that means.

immortus

01-09-2007, 11:10 AM

Typical Hollywood guy, not knowing ANYTHING about comics!!!

Bevbos

01-09-2007, 11:13 AM

Fourteen. :confused:

Not sure what that means.

It could be "Night Thrasher"

erudite

01-09-2007, 11:15 AM

i'm really glad to be able to read this guys resume- but this is a non story effectively. when theres something more than a tease- i'd like to read it.

kennyab

01-09-2007, 11:16 AM

I'm more than willing to give it a go. I loved Underworld.
However, If it's an all new team and all new concept, why call it "New Warriors"?
I love the original team, but even I admit, Warriors aint exactly a "Legacy" team, ya know?

I thought he explained it pretty well. Within the MU, the name "New Warriors" probably carries more of an emotional charge than any other superteam name right now. Now you've got a group of anti-reg teens who want to make a point, and calling themselves the New Warriors is going to make that point. They're thinking of themselves as the spiritual successors of the Warriors.

As for the returning character, my money's on Firestar. He mentioned a crossover with The Initiative, and Justice is supposed to be in that, so Angelica being associated with (not necessarily on) an anti-reg team and Vance being on a pro-reg team could be pretty interesting.

ChrisClark

01-09-2007, 11:17 AM

It could be "Night Thrasher"

Good call. The fact that Dwayne's dead, and that they probably knew he was going to die when they made this rule, would suggest that, if the blank really is meant to represent Night Thrasher, they really want to distance this book from the Taylor Foundation and that part of the team's roots. An emphatic "No Night Thrasher" when he's already dead and gone is an interesting idea. Why be so determined about it? Hmm....

Sims

01-09-2007, 11:20 AM

Please include Gravity!
Please include Gravity!
Please include Gravity!
Please include Gravity!
Please include Gravity!
Please include Gravity!
Please include Gravity!
Please include Gravity!
Please include Gravity!
Please include Gravity!

:)

Bevbos

01-09-2007, 11:21 AM

Good call. The fact that Dwayne's dead, and that they probably knew he was going to die when they made this rule, would suggest that, if the blank really is meant to represent Night Thrasher, they really want to distance this book from the Taylor Foundation and that part of the team's roots. An emphatic "No Night Thrasher" when he's already dead and gone is an interesting idea. Why be so determined about it? Hmm....

Could be a lie to get us all steamed up and thrown off the scent, only for a glorious "Dwayne somehow survived the explosion" return, which would definitely tickle our inner fanboys.

ssava

01-09-2007, 11:22 AM

Typical Hollywood guy, not knowing ANYTHING about comics!!!

Dude go back to sleep.
Kevin knows more about comics than most of the people on this board.

He can bore you to DEATH with his knowledge and love of Marvel and DC.

I know from first hand experience. It's dreadful!
:p

skaly

01-09-2007, 11:24 AM

My larger concern, though, is that I didn't get a definitive take on what the point of this team is versus Young Avengers and Runaways. Saying "they're REALLY the rebels" is a little vague/disingenuous. Through the entire run of its first volume the Young Avengers were blatantly disregarding orders and saving people because they knew people needed to be saved. And The Runaways continue to do that. If this book doesn't have a clear, differentiating theme that's three strikes against it for many comic readers.

I think Runaways is more about rebellion against authority and NW is more about rebellion against popular opinion/public perception. (Not familiar with Young Avengers.) I'd say that NW has the tougher battle.

Crump's Brother

01-09-2007, 11:33 AM

This guy has the best voice ever. He's the gigantic werewolf in Underworld.

Bungle

01-09-2007, 11:34 AM

I've always had a soft spot for the New Warriors, so I'll give this a shot when it comes out, just to see who are the "new" New Warriors...

Scribe

01-09-2007, 11:34 AM

The New New Warriors?:D Sorry, couldn't help myself.... Seriously, though, it'll be interesting to see where the NW go as a team given that they've picked a h£ll of a cross to bear in that name. I'll wait for the first couple of issues and see how it goes.

PS Any idle guesses on the lineup? Or who would you like to see on the squad?

jedifish

01-09-2007, 11:35 AM

Depending on the artist, I'll probably be checking it out.

jedifish

01-09-2007, 11:37 AM

Well, as to the differentiating theme, it could be violence. These could be the "Junior Punishers".

It's a sorry time for "old school" fans, what with Thunderbolts and New Warriors seemingly being thrown out with the bathwater, but it's a GREAT time for people like me, who like to see shocking new takes on old properties, and new characters.

I'll at least give this a shot.

And damn you, Marvel, for burdening my wallet with so many interesting projects!!!! :mad:

I'm an old school fan and I don't mind change. But when it has crappy art like the last New Warriors mini-series and a writer I can't stand on the upcoming Thunderbolts series, well, then I pass on the properties.

ChrisClark

01-09-2007, 11:38 AM

PS Any idle guesses on the lineup? Or who would you like to see on the squad?

I'm hoping for Firestar -- I'm a sucker for redheads; what can I say? -- but other than that, I'm looking forward to being surprised. Might we see Jubilee? What's she up to?

Punchy

01-09-2007, 11:45 AM

I'm hoping for Firestar -- I'm a sucker for redheads; what can I say? -- but other than that, I'm looking forward to being surprised. Might we see Jubilee? What's she up to?

She's got no powers thanks to House Of M, and I think she was last seen in Wolverine: Origins.

Charlie Hustle

01-09-2007, 11:47 AM

did they ever announce what Finch was working on when he left Moon Knight?

ChrisClark

01-09-2007, 11:50 AM

She's got no powers thanks to House Of M, and I think she was last seen in Wolverine: Origins.

Doesn't mean she won't show up. Powers or no powers, it seems to me like they might want to do something with her.

Panelologist77

01-09-2007, 11:50 AM

And they will continue to play a prominent role in the post-Civil War Marvel Universe. These New Warriors are outlaws who have a real problem with not only superhero registration,

So Iron Man's side wins then, and Superhero Registration remains.

Pan

Speedball93

01-09-2007, 11:54 AM

I don't know how this will play out, but my pitch would have been - Speedball decides to register and talks Sheild into letting him start the "New Warriors hero training program. He would have been the "leader of the group, taking new and old heroes and making sure that they are trained to be doing what they are doing. This would have been a better way of serving his "Penance and would have redeemed the name of the New Warriors. But what do I know, I am just a lowly fan who would like to keep his favorite characters alive and doing what they love to do which is have fun and beat up the bad guys. Is that so wrong??

NielsVanEekelen

01-09-2007, 11:54 AM

Might we see Jubilee?
Just what I was thinking--this could be what Joe Q was talking about. And powers or no, Jubes started superheroing when she was 12 or 13. That's a lot of experience that could help (or lead) a team. If Jubes is in, I'm interested

As for the returning character, Silhouette wasn't at Stamford, right? Is she still around?

Punchy

01-09-2007, 11:55 AM

Just what I was thinking--this could be what Joe Q was talking about. And powers or no, Jubes started superheroing when she was 12 or 13. That's a lot of experience that could help (or lead) a team. If Jubes is in, I'm interested

As for the returning character, Silhouette wasn't at Stamford, right? Is she still around?

Silhouette is still around, and on Cap's Secret Avengers.

She was in Iron Man #14.

Punchy

01-09-2007, 11:56 AM

Doesn't mean she won't show up. Powers or no powers, it seems to me like they might want to do something with her.

I didn't see that she wouldn't appear, you asked what she was up to, and what she's up to is having no powers.

ChrisClark

01-09-2007, 11:58 AM

I didn't see that she wouldn't appear, you asked what she was up to, and what she's up to is having no powers.

Sorry. No offense meant. :(

Speedball93

01-09-2007, 11:59 AM

It was said that they had plans for Jubilee, but they had nothing to do with New Warriors. It may be the big X event that is planned for this summer.

Punchy

01-09-2007, 12:00 PM

Sorry. No offense meant. :(

None taken!

I'm pretty sure Joey Q mentioned her showing up somewhere sometime, so I'm thinking it'll be here too.

Padding

01-09-2007, 12:03 PM

Maybe Bandit is the old New Warrior

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandit_%28comics%29

Spade

01-09-2007, 12:04 PM

Wait, first the Young Avengers were the outlaw youth team and Marvel said we didn't need a New Warriors. Now the Young Avengers are the youth in training and New Warriors are the rebels.

I think basically they just didn't want the New Warriors to be the Junior Avengers which many of us thought of them for years. Instead they quietly pulled them aside and made room for a legacy team. Then they literally blew the NW apart and put togther a familiar concept of teen heroes on the run from the law.

I'm curious how all these teen teams and slightly older teens teams are going exist. So far you have Runaways, New X-men, New Warriors, Young Avengers, and the Loners. those are just the ones getting titles.

TheLizard207

01-09-2007, 12:05 PM

after reading this -
Im on for an arc. Great interview, nice to see a hollywood guy that actually knows comics.

Ben543250

01-09-2007, 12:06 PM

People shouldn't bash Underworld so much. The first film had a very nice twist that wasn't cheap and actually deepened the story.

Spade

01-09-2007, 12:07 PM

Maybe Bandit is the old New Warrior

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bandit_%28comics%29

Hopefully he was pretending to be Dwayne and got blown up in New England. he was a weak character to me.

Adam G

01-09-2007, 12:10 PM

How sweet would it be if this was Bagley's new project? Maybe at the least, he can do covers.

beetle1million

01-09-2007, 12:15 PM

Best of luck to him on what's sure to be an uphill battle. This property hasn't been hot in years, and now most of the characters that were popular are unavailable. So he's going to be creating a team out of entirely different characters and giving them a name nobody really wants. That's...an interesting choice.

My larger concern, though, is that I didn't get a definitive take on what the point of this team is versus Young Avengers and Runaways. Saying "they're REALLY the rebels" is a little vague/disingenuous. Through the entire run of its first volume the Young Avengers were blatantly disregarding orders and saving people because they knew people needed to be saved. And The Runaways continue to do that. If this book doesn't have a clear, differentiating theme that's three strikes against it for many comic readers.

I agree. We don't know enough about the relaunch yet to really say for sure; I can think of one way to really, really make the New Warriors a much bigger team of 'rebels', so to speak, but I doubt that's where they're going.

But, you're exactly right. At the time of Fabian's run we didn't have the Young Avengers or the Runaways. At this point there are two teams of teen heroes around (three if you count Xavier's kids), and neither of these groups are particularly good at taking orders or behaving.

beetle1million

01-09-2007, 12:16 PM

People shouldn't bash Underworld so much. The first film had a very nice twist that wasn't cheap and actually deepened the story.

I must have missed that. :P

All I remember after spending my money to see Underworld in the theatres was that for a movie that was about vampires fighting werewolves, it didn't happen for more than five minutes of screen time. And that it's one of the two movies I've ever considered walking out on.

Aaron

01-09-2007, 12:18 PM

beetle1million

01-09-2007, 12:19 PM

So Iron Man's side wins then, and Superhero Registration remains.

Pan

Registration has been mentioned as existing post Civil War about twenty thousand times. It's also been mentioned that that doesn't guarantee an outright victory for Tony.

beetle1million

01-09-2007, 12:20 PM

N.Y.X. Jedi

01-09-2007, 12:21 PM

how awesome would it be for both vance astro and noh-varr to be on the new team

(ok i know, i'm alone on that one)

but am i the only one that wants to see noh-varr on the team? seeing how they are suppose to be "rebellious"

Spade

01-09-2007, 12:22 PM

I agree. We don't know enough about the relaunch yet to really say for sure; I can think of one way to really, really make the New Warriors a much bigger team of 'rebels', so to speak, but I doubt that's where they're going.

.

They will all be black or minorities. Come on Marvel give us a black teenage superhero team.

NielsVanEekelen

01-09-2007, 12:25 PM

It was said that they had plans for Jubilee, but they had nothing to do with New Warriors. It may be the big X event that is planned for this summer.
Frak. And there I thought the wondering would be over. Let's hope it is indeed the X-over. If so, could it be an event centering on the de-powered mutants? Re-powering them, even?

How sweet would it be if this was Bagley's new project? Maybe at the least, he can do covers.
How sweet? Pretty sweet.

Ace

01-09-2007, 12:41 PM

I am giving this one a healthy shot, at least until we learn more. (And I'm more anti Robbie as Penance than anyone)

Here's hoping that the crossover with the Initiative is Vance taking a lead in this group.

I could really see his idealism stretched to the point of rebellion by what's happened in Civil War.

Really, Grevioux sounds like an honest fan of the first series and that's a huge plus for him in my mind.

I think that NW never got quite a fair share after Fabe left. V2 was absolutely dreadful. For a while there I thought Faerber was going to kill both the titans and NW franchises. V3 was completely against what a lot of the built in fanbase wanted.

This sounds a lot more interesting. I just hope it's not so edgy and rebellious that the characters read as completely unlikable. That's how the beginning of Ultimate X-Men felt like for me until Vaughan came on the book.

ghostly1

01-09-2007, 12:41 PM

My guess?

'Absolutely no teenagers'.

He never says it's a teen book in the interview - Matt does, but Grevioux doesn't.

It's an adult team taking the name.

motteditor

01-09-2007, 12:44 PM

Haven't even finished reading the interview yet (barely started actually), but I'm so excited for this project. New Warriors is up there for me with Avengers, with the latter only maybe slightly behind because of its shorter run and the problems with the second two volumes. I really hope this one hearkens back to v.1 in terms of theme and tone.

Kevin Grevioux: Well, I’m a former microbiologist who quit grad school to become an actor/screenwriter in Hollywood.

That's got to be one of the strangest backgrounds of any comic writer. I know I saw MiB2, but can't say I remember him. Maybe I'll Netflix it.

One, they wanted me to use certain characters, who I can’t tell you about. And two, absolutely no ______________. (Fans can fill in the blank, but I won’t!) From there it was up to me to come up with a method, motivation, and a tone that would accommodate what the editors wanted in the post-Civil War Marvel Universe.

Interesting. The latter at least makes me think this will be a serious take. Really wish I knew who the cast is going to be and who those certain characters are. I think New Warriors lends itself to a new cast, particularly now, but not everyone's going to fit.

No blank? Hopefully reality TV.

What’s funny is that I was actually very hesitant to take the job after Joe initially offered me the book. I always envisioned myself working on the Hulk, Thor, or the Fantastic Four, not the New Warriors, a book that had failed three times before. And I was thinking, “What can they possibly do to make the New Warriors succeed this time?”

That's a little frustrating. I don't think it failed the first time. It got 75 issues, spinning off two comics (and almost a third), and was only cancelled because the entire company was screwed up -- this was the same time they farmed out the Avengers to Liefeld after all. Other lower-selling books were kept when NW was axed, so it wasn't just sales that doomed it. Then the second one was plagued by editor/writer disagreements (and Nova being in a different uniform?), while the final one was a miniseries that strayed too far from the premise of the original (and Young's art wasn't for everyone).

But will tell you that no one wants the New Warriors around. They’re upsetting the apple cart so to speak. And on top of that they have the audacity, the nerve and the unmitigated gall to actually use the name “New Warriors” for their new super-group. That infuriates the public and the government.

OK, if I have to accept the idiotic premise of Civil War -- that the Warriors were incompetents despite having saved the world/reality at least three times I can think of off the top of my head -- this actually makes me happy. It makes sense, I suppose, and sounds like the group will be having the same types of clashes with authority the originals did.

And they will continue to play a prominent role in the post-Civil War Marvel Universe. These New Warriors are outlaws who have a real problem with not only superhero registration, but the way the whole world blames the previous group of New Warriors for what happened at Stamford. The New Warriors, the ones who were killed, have become the poster boys for superhero irresponsibility and arrogance. A label this new group feels is totally unfair and unwarranted. Not buying any of this, the New Warriors feel that it’s up to them to bring respect and reverence back to the name New Warriors and they mean to do it by any means necessary…authority be hanged.

Love this. A little meta commentary even. Which makes me think more that it could be Rage as the returning Warrior. While Firestar (who I think is really the only other viable alternative at this point) certainly cares about the team, I think the name itself would matter more to Rage; Firestar would be more concerned with the people who made up the team. I'd love for Rage to get some prominence again. Now I'm trying to think of who else this might include -- you'd think they'd have to have some links to the old team that would make them care, no?

However, once Fabian Nicieza and Mark Bagley started their actual run I gave it a try. And after I read the first issue I was hooked. Their run remains the seminal incarnation of the team to date in my opinion.

Thank God.

But this new incarnation is a complete departure from that original concept. Our goal is not to erase or disrespect what has gone before but build on the great things the other creative teams before us have done in the past. As such, you will see a familiar face on this new team to bridge the old with the new. Who that is, you’ll just have to read the book to find out.

Hmm. If it's a complete departure, why call it New Warriors? Am I reading/hoping too much if I say I think this means the familiar face will be from v.1? I just don't think anyone's really clamoring for an Aegis or Debrii-headed team (I think they're the only remaining living Warriors from v.2 and 3 who weren't in v.1).

But given what’s happened at Stamford, there’s really only one way to approach that last incarnation with this new series, and that’s from the standpoint that it was a very dark moment in the New Warrior’s history.

LOL. It's more meta commentary that's not intended to be (I don't think). : )

We’ll also be seeing a crossover with Dan Slott’s The Initiative as well as a few other titles. This book is one where we are going to have guest-stars galore!

Hurrah! That should mean at least Justice will appear and Brevoort said Sil would at least appear in AI (though I took that to mean as a cameo or in background). And could I dare to hope for Southpaw? I suppose she does have a link to NW -- in that they caught her -- though I don't know why she'd care about the team's name (and I'm not sure yet that she cares about being a hero).

So very excited for this. Hurry up, Millar. I don't really care about Civil War, but you're holding up books I do want to get.

Ace

01-09-2007, 12:44 PM

Well by end end of V1 the Warriors had almost shed the "new" part of their name anyway. They were growing into more of an Outsiders (or The Titans) sort of role where they weren't the kids anymore, but that ever elusive early 20something age group that REALLY underrepresented at Marvel.

NormanB258

01-09-2007, 12:46 PM

My guess?

'Absolutely no teenagers'.

He never says it's a teen book in the interview - Matt does, but Grevioux doesn't.

It's an adult team taking the name.

Whoah.

That's a theory!

KyleV

01-09-2007, 12:59 PM

Ah, New Warriors -- perhaps the one subject that will force me to post.

I think Mott's probably right: Rage seems to be the best choice to carry over and the one who'd be most upset by the public abuse of their name -- not to mention Thrash's death and the disappearance of Speedball.

The first volume was failing if you consider the fact that leading up to #50 it was actually going to get a second title and by #75 sales had dropped far enough for it to be canceled. Yes, the argument can be made that numbers like that would have it in the top 20 these days, but that's not when it was coming out. At the time, it was falling fast.

I think Evan made a few crucial mistakes when Fabe left:

1) Pushed Rage (and Thrash) to the side. While I'd gotten bored with Thrash, Rage was one of the best things to happen in NW.

2) Made Vance a jerk, and not just any jerk, but a stereotypical comic book jerk: "Who's leading this team anyway?" "Why is he making eyes at my lady?" *sigh* Forced drama on a good character.

3) The Speedball that wasn't Speedball.

In his defense, he did give us Timeslip. I'd love to see her again.

Volume two failed because we wanted to read about the New Warriors and that's not what we got. And don't get me started on volume three (although thank god for small favors -- at least it prevented more of the original team from dying in Civil War).

By the by, the death count from that was just four, right? Thrash, Nita, and two of the volume three lameness?

Interesting concept and one that seems to be more in tune with the first 25 issues (when they were stealing Quinjets and invading countries). I'll give it a shot.

motteditor

01-09-2007, 01:03 PM

It's a sorry time for "old school" fans, what with Thunderbolts and New Warriors seemingly being thrown out with the bathwater, but it's a GREAT time for people like me, who like to see shocking new takes on old properties, and new characters.

Actually, as an old-school fan, this sounds more like back to basics New Warriors than the last few times we've seen them. Certainly more so than Wells' take.

As for returning Warriors, we can assume/know it's not Thrash (dead), Nita (dead), Nova (in his own book, in space), Justice (in Avengers Initiative), Turbo (in Loners), Duckhawk (in Loners, and wasn't really an NW, in my opinion), Speedball (dead).

That leaves:
Firestar -- choice No. 1. Arguably one of the most high-profile characters, considering she's not used much. Was a founder of the original team. Recently retired, but that can be undone easily enough. Still, like I said before, I think she would care less about the team name than the people on it, if that makes sense. I also think, unless she's clearly the leader, it'd be a step back for the character, considering her stint as an Avenger.

Rage -- He's the favorite right now, as far as I'm concerned. This series makes me think it even more, since I think Rage really would care about the name of the team, as much as the people in it. This would make me ecstatic, by the way.

Other choices include:
* Timeslip -- would thrill me to no end, but I don't think she's high enough profile.
* Silhouette -- possible. We know she's cameoing at least in AI. Don't know if that would preclude her.
* Helix -- seems very unlikely
* Scarlet Spider -- is he even still alive? He disappeared in some crossver with the Spider-books that I didn't get.
* Dagger -- not really a team member, and I don't think she'd really care about the New Warriors name.
* Aegis -- was part of the much-maligned v.2.
* Debrii -- was part of the much-maligned v.3, and didn't like the Warriors to begin with.
* Ultra-Girl -- never actually appeared in a single issue of NW.
* Hindsight -- considering what happened in She-Hulk, seems unlikely. (Though I hope that gets referenced/dealt with in an issue at some point.)
* Bandit -- I think his dislike of the team would be too strong.

The no blank *could* be Night Thrasher. Grevioux had a letter printed in a very early NT, so it seems likely he was a fan of the character.

Dude go back to sleep.
Kevin knows more about comics than most of the people on this board.

I could be wrong, but I think he was being sarcastic there.

As for differences from the other teen books out there now, I always saw NW as more of an adult book. I know some of the characters were still in high school (Robbie, Rage, Firestar), but more were finished with that part of their life. I don't read YA, but I see New X-Men and Runaways as more teenagers learning what they want to be, a la high school. New Warriors is more the college students/young professionals, in that they think they've got the experience to know what they're doing but then discover when they get in the real world, it's not as easy as they thought and they're constantly facing hard choices. Don't know if it's a huge distinction, but that's what I always saw.

Sesshomaru

01-09-2007, 01:07 PM

I'm not sure that pushing Rage aside was a bad move , many people disliked how token he was , how idiotic was his name and costume .

In my case he was heavily involved in one of my most disliked marvel story ever( an avenger one) .. the arc with the Tetrarch of Entropy . And i always found him quite uninteresting .. but then again i've already mentioned my dislike for quite a chunk of the cast in previous threads anyway ... so my opinion can easily be disregarded .

That leaves:
Firestar -- choice No. 1. Arguably one of the most high-profile characters, considering she's not used much. Was a founder of the original team. Recently retired, but that can be undone easily enough. Still, like I said before, I think she would care less about the team name than the people on it, if that makes sense. I also think, unless she's clearly the leader, it'd be a step back for the character, considering her stint as an Avenger.

She would be the best choice imo . She was my sunshine in the book , though oddly i always despised her former lover/partner Justice . And since (i'll confess to my great joy) she and Vance and broke up , they really need to do something interesting with her and and ON HER OWN .

motteditor

01-09-2007, 01:09 PM

A
I think Evan made a few crucial mistakes when Fabe left:
1) Pushed Rage (and Thrash) to the side. While I'd gotten bored with Thrash, Rage was one of the best things to happen in NW.
2) Made Vance a jerk, and not just any jerk, but a stereotypical comic book jerk: "Who's leading this team anyway?" "Why is he making eyes at my lady?" *sigh* Forced drama on a good character.
3) The Speedball that wasn't Speedball.

You may be right on the first two counts. I know the third upset some people, but I don't think it was a big mistake; I thought it was a good story.

I think it took Evan about a year to get his feet under him. I remember very distinctly starting to like it was the Sabra story, despite the silly Vance/Angel jealousy that was being played up. After that story, I think he was firing on all cylinders. I thought the Dire Wraith story was as good as anything else. After that first year, I think Evan was doing a better job than the very tail end of Fabe's run (when it got into crossover hell and he was just working on too many books, IMO), but I think the damage had been done by then and too many readers had jumped off ship.

By the by, the death count from that was just four, right? Thrash, Nita, and two of the volume three lameness?

No, it was Thrash, Nita, Speedball and Microbe. Debrii wasn't there for some reason.

Spade

01-09-2007, 01:13 PM

I'm not sure that pushing Rage aside was a bad move , many people disliked how token he was , how idiotic was his name and costume .
.

Yeah when he was introduced in the Avengers he sucked. But when he was a New Warriorr, Fabe explored the character and he fit quite well. He actually became a good character. He was never a token in the New Warriors.

motteditor

01-09-2007, 01:16 PM

KyleV

01-09-2007, 01:38 PM

His and Robbie's friendship was one of my absolute favorite parts of the series.

In fact, that's what I meant when I said pushing Rage aside was a bad move. His friendship with Robbie was perhaps the best storyline to come out of New Warriors, and yet after #50 we never really saw it again.

People keep mentioning that Angel is without powers. Is this confirmed? What about Vance?

What are the chances of this new series finally getting Marvel to reprint the original run?

And does anyone else think that perhaps the "bridge" character won't actually be a member of the team? I'm beginning to get that feeling.

Dream Boy

01-09-2007, 01:47 PM

People keep mentioning that Angel is without powers. Is this confirmed?

Nope. Someone's mistaken. She's retired but still has her powers. She was shown using them in an issue of Thunderbolts, which took place after House of M.

Livewire2nd

01-09-2007, 01:53 PM

Sean Chen for the artist, perhaps? Or Zircher?

I will check out the book depending on the artist. Here's to it being a dependable creative team that doesn't go Young Avengers on us again (ie delays).
Young Avengers Had 13 Issues 3 of them Double Sized in 16 months So once Again I should point out that it wasn't that delayed. You people are making a bigger deal out of it then it really was.

richstanz

01-09-2007, 01:54 PM

Absolutely no _____________

Costumes.

Calling it right now.

No costumes.

Bevbos

01-09-2007, 01:55 PM

No, it was Thrash, Nita, Speedball and Microbe. Debrii wasn't there for some reason.

I know I'm the only person who liked v.3, but I hope this character is just consigned to the dustbin of history. Like so much... you know... debris.

motteditor

01-09-2007, 01:58 PM

And does anyone else think that perhaps the "bridge" character won't actually be a member of the team? I'm beginning to get that feeling.

My impression from what Joe Q said (though I can't find it now) was that one character was definitely on an earlier New Warriors team. I suppose there are a few bridge characters I think could work (someone from Psionex, for example, or making a story out of the Mad Thinker's nephew) but I think the team HAS to have one former Warrior. Especially with this setup where the team has to care about redeeming the team name.

People keep mentioning that Angel is without powers. Is this confirmed? What about Vance?

As someone else noted, Angelica still has her owers, though she's currently retired (walked into a bar that apparently allows underaged superheroines in costumes, then walked out still in her costume and threw her mask in the trash, IIRC). Vance also has his powers.

You may have been thinking of Angel, Warren Worthington III, who was I think briefly without powers (or was said to be without powers, but still had them or something).

motteditor

01-09-2007, 02:01 PM

Costumes.
Calling it right now.
No costumes.

I could deal with that. One of the fanfics I never got around to writing had that as a core concept -- the characters didn't want to be superheroes, but they were still basically good people with powers, so when they saw someone in trouble, they would intervene.

My only hesitation is that Runaways have no costumes, so the two concepts might overlap.

Another character I'd love to see in this, by the way: Persuasion. I think she could fit real well with the New Warriors motif, though she has no connection to the previous team.

Sesshomaru

01-09-2007, 02:12 PM

Agreed. Rage was a horrible Avenger. He was fantastic as a New Warrior, though. His and Robbie's friendship was one of my absolute favorite parts of the series.

And I loved the redesign of his uniform, with the Buick facemask and Legion of Doom/Road Warriors shoulder pads. Maybe not the most practical costume ever made, but I thought it looked great. Hell, I got the Gravity mini just because Rage was in it (though that obviously proved to be a good choice for other reasons too).

Well i'm sorry to say that i disliked him in every books . I think that even triathlon was better . His redesign was better , but i still didnt like it .

But again i was never a NW fan , only chars i liked from the serie were Namorita , Firestar , Nova , Darkhawk , Scarlet Spider , Alex Power .. all characters that i already loved on their own , in their books or featured in other solo and group books .

trence5

01-09-2007, 02:15 PM

Welllllllll, I just hope it doesn't interfere with his Vindicators title.

CoreyB

01-09-2007, 02:29 PM

This looks more and more promising!

I agree with the person that said that in a way this is more 'back to basics' with the 'rebellion against authority' vibe, but it's got a great twist to make it relevant to what's now going on in the Marvel Universe.

speedyrugger

01-09-2007, 02:55 PM

As for differences from the other teen books out there now, I always saw NW as more of an adult book. I know some of the characters were still in high school (Robbie, Rage, Firestar), but more were finished with that part of their life. I don't read YA, but I see New X-Men and Runaways as more teenagers learning what they want to be, a la high school. New Warriors is more the college students/young professionals, in that they think they've got the experience to know what they're doing but then discover when they get in the real world, it's not as easy as they thought and they're constantly facing hard choices. Don't know if it's a huge distinction, but that's what I always saw.

Quoted for Truth
This is what I loved about the warriors vol. 1 . I loved that they were young adults and behaved as such instead of acting like the teenagers we get in YA or Runaways. The young ones (Rage, Speedball, Firestar) were actually very responsible for thier age (yes even Robbie) and really written as older than most 14-16 year olds. I'd love for the new group to be firmly 18-24 year olds, similar to the Loners age bracket.

Jamal Y. Igle

01-09-2007, 03:03 PM

Typical Hollywood guy, not knowing ANYTHING about comics!!!
Actually he does, he reads comics, writes his own books for Alias. Kevin actually knows quite a bit about comics, from the conversations i've had with him.

Miralles

01-09-2007, 03:21 PM

Does this line give any idea?

"An idea I had which was actually sparked from an old Fantastic Four arc during Stan and Jack’s run. Joe seemed to love it and it really opened up some cool story possibilities for me for the first as well as subsequent story arcs if sales permit."

Not to me, but I was thinking maybe it was a new teen team, with Franklin Richards, some of the Power family (here the returning hero) and maybe Quicksilver daughter. Time for them to grow up, and now that the Richards are no more a familiy, time to put the spotlight in Franklin.

RedRonin

01-09-2007, 03:59 PM

Actually he does, he reads comics, writes his own books for Alias. Kevin actually knows quite a bit about comics, from the conversations i've had with him.
Thanks for that Jamal. Any chance to see you come back and draw this verison of the Warriors? :D

Also, I'm giving the guy the benefit of the doubt. Look forward to this.

Irredeemable

01-09-2007, 04:26 PM

It always amazes me when Marvel or DC refer to books that ran for over 100 issues as "failures." New Warriors was a certified hit for the majority of its run, and only ended up being cancelled because the entire industry took a bath. Heck, lest we forget, Marvel's so-called flagship books were all cancelled and relaunched at around the same time.

Was it a quality book that entire time? Nah. But to label it as a failure is a bit extreme.

Jay Faerber's New Warriors? Yeah, not so great. :-)

Aaron

I had a different take on the word failure here. A lot of good books don't make it.

All the titles he listed as comparisons were ones that more or less have never ended. So looking at it this way, the Thor title failed too. Doesn't mean it didn't have some excellent stories and classic runs, just that its not around anymore -- so in a sense, it failed. But both new warriors and Thor are going to get another shot. So we're not talking Blackwulf or NFL Superpro here.

vanillacyke

01-09-2007, 04:27 PM

TF_Loki

01-09-2007, 04:33 PM

Another character I'd love to see in this, by the way: Persuasion. I think she could fit real well with the New Warriors motif, though she has no connection to the previous team.

You and your back door, Beta flight boosting!:mad:

Ok, I'm not mad. I miss Kara & laura and manikin (why can't I remember his real name?) too.

I'm quite excited about this. Art team will be the make or break on this but it's looking good for The General's run....

speedbaldwin

01-09-2007, 04:40 PM

I'm optimistic about this book. I love the New Warriors, and while this will certainly be a different book featuring an almost completely different cast, I would like for the name to be big again.

As for the returning New Warrior... It could be Silhouette. Since the New Warriors will cross over with Avengers: Initiative and since I think it's been said that Silhouette will appear in Avengers: Initiative... just maybe she is the returning member. If it's not Firestar, Silhouette would be my next choice. She's almost a founding member of the team. And I always liked her. I could be happy with Silhouette on the team.

The rest of the cast is a mystery to me. I'd like to see Southpaw, Gravity, and Scorpion again, but who knows? Do we even know if the team is going to be made of pre-existing characters or all new characters, or a mixture of both?

I'm looking forward to reading more about this as the details come.

immortus

01-09-2007, 04:58 PM

Actually he does, he reads comics, writes his own books for Alias. Kevin actually knows quite a bit about comics, from the conversations i've had with him.

But he's from Hollywood! All the other guys on the Newsarama Marvel board told me Hollywood people don't even know who Spider-Man is!

Grimm22

01-09-2007, 05:24 PM

motteditor

01-09-2007, 05:47 PM

So we're not talking Blackwulf or NFL Superpro here.

Cue AvengingTitan. Heh. For a second there, I read "we're not talking Beowulf or NFL Superpro." I was trying to decide whether Beowulf could be considered a failure. I mean, he doesn't have a book coming out these days, after all. :)

Ok, I'm not mad. I miss Kara & laura and manikin (why can't I remember his real name?) too.

Whitman Knapp. (Damn proud I remembered that in only about five second. Or maybe a little sad.) At least you remembered Laura Dean's first name. I always thought that was a tricky one. : )

Do we even know if the team is going to be made of pre-existing characters or all new characters, or a mixture of both?

I believe we were told both.

MShivers

01-09-2007, 05:50 PM

Ya know that would make alot of sense. He'd be a great fit for the Warriors.Gravity died in "Beyond!"

The teaser at the end made it sound like his story wasn't finished, though.

- Michael

(BTW - I highly recommend tracking down the back-issues or trade for "Beyond!" 'Twas good stuff... and much better than I expected.)

zeraze1

01-09-2007, 06:25 PM

Two quality black writers on major books post-CW? Looks like Hudlin's ridiculous excuse for his crappy writing is over

You should be thanking Hudlin since he's proven that Black writers can actually sell comics, thus paving the way for McDuffie (one of Hudlin's best friends) and Grevioux.

Despite glowing reviews and a white sidekick, Priest's Black Panther never sold as well as Hudlin's. (McDuffie credits this to comic fans snubbing Priest's T'Challa for being too formidable for a Black superhero.) Hence, Priest's lack of success reinforced the stereotype "Black writer = DOA comic."

However, Hudlin's run has proven a better seller than first expected. When a Black Panther series lasts longer than a Thing comic and outsells various titles starring classic White heroes (She-Hulk, Iron Fist, Green Arrow, etc.), then Hudlin is clearly worthy of attention.

So, expect more Black creators to be flocking to Marvel, all thanks for Hudlin, who stuck by his guns instead of trying to hide his Blackness or water down his stories to satisfy immature fanboys.

No Hudlin, being black doesn't mean you can make race the issue in every single issue and create obscure team ups with only Black characters just because you don't like white heroes)

Hudlin likes White heroes just fine: his takes on Cap and Namor were spot on. And he really enjoyed his run on MK: Spider-Man, which starred a White superhero.

Hudlin doesn't like jerk White superheroes like Iron Man. Actually, no one likes Tony Stark much nowadays.

zeraze

zeraze1

01-09-2007, 06:27 PM

Gravity died in "Beyond!"

The teaser at the end made it sound like his story wasn't finished, though.

- Michael

(BTW - I highly recommend tracking down the back-issues or trade for "Beyond!" 'Twas good stuff... and much better than I expected.)

I heard over at McDuffie's forum that a Beyond! trade was in the works. That would simplify the hunt.

And Beyond! was way more fun, clever and even touching than it had any right to be. This could have been a throwaway mini, but McDuffie made you care for the heroes and villains in the cast.

zeraze

Jeremy Williams

01-09-2007, 06:27 PM

It's interesting that he said that the movie Underworld was based on ideas of an imaginary World he created he had in a movie treatement. He didn't say if the final result and what the director wrote was close or not to what he did.

Panelologist77

01-09-2007, 06:48 PM

Registration has been mentioned as existing post Civil War about twenty thousand times. It's also been mentioned that that doesn't guarantee an outright victory for Tony.

True. They have to register to determine the genuine article from the Skrulls. Why didn't Tony just tell them though?

Be interesting to see how Captain Marvel's return plays out.

Pan

vbartilucci

01-09-2007, 06:48 PM

absolutely no ______________. (Fans can fill in the blank, but I won’t!)

OKay...

Absolutely no hugging and no learning.

vbartilucci

01-09-2007, 06:49 PM

And I was thinking, “What can they possibly do to make the New Warriors succeed this time?”

You...and about every other comics reader on Earth

Forbush Man

01-09-2007, 06:51 PM

seems cool.

wraith

01-09-2007, 06:59 PM

It always amazes me when Marvel or DC refer to books that ran for over 100 issues as "failures." New Warriors was a certified hit for the majority of its run, and only ended up being cancelled because the entire industry took a bath. Heck, lest we forget, Marvel's so-called flagship books were all cancelled and relaunched at around the same time.

Was it a quality book that entire time? Nah. But to label it as a failure is a bit extreme.

Jay Faerber's New Warriors? Yeah, not so great. :-)

Aaron

THANK YOU. I a sick and tired of people saying that the NEW WARRIORS never worked as a property and that all of the series failed. It's like people have selected memories or a warp perception of th past when it comes to the NW's publishing history.

THe first NW series was a hit for most of it's run. The last 2 NW series were a HUGE flop because they were badly writen, and in the case of the last mini series, has strayed to far away from the core concept of the original series.

I said it before, and I'll say it again, Marvel should have hired Fabian to write this new NW series.

THat being said, I might give this new NW series a try.

vbartilucci

01-09-2007, 07:09 PM

Two quality black writers on major books post-CW? Looks like Hudlin's ridiculous excuse for his crappy writing is over (No Hudlin, being black doesn't mean you can make race the issue in every single issue and create obscure team ups with only Black characters just because you don't like white heroes)
Sorry dude, I'm late coming in on Panther, but I'm way mad impressed. It's a truly unique take on the character - actually portraying him as a king. Well schooled in politics as well as the art of kicking ass.

While I think the retcon of having a lifelong thing for Storm is a bit clumsy, the dialogue and interaction between the two has been wonderful. And it's a relief to see a book with all these black folks, and not a single swivelin' head yet.

And the scenes with Isiah Bradley were so damn great.

Sesshomaru

01-09-2007, 07:19 PM

However, Hudlin's run has proven a better seller than first expected. When a Black Panther series lasts longer than a Thing comic and outsells various titles starring classic White heroes (She-Hulk, Iron Fist, Green Arrow, etc.), then Hudlin is clearly worthy of attention.

He also has hugely improved beyond the awfullness first arc of BP (and the HoM tie-in) . Right now BP is a quite great read and isnt at all full of the anti-white stuff people complained about at first . Imo he combined quite well (though Priest's run was awesome too in that regard) his royal duties and his super-heroic actions and made BP an international important player again , thought a lot of it lately is thanks to Civil Wars .

As shocking as it seems for some people people's writing can improve , good writers have their bad days too , sometimes especially when doing their first comics works . Stop being stubborn and give it another try , and if you ddi and still cant enjoy it , well no sweat at least you tried to open your mind .

JLAJRC

01-09-2007, 07:19 PM

My guess?

'Absolutely no teenagers'.

He never says it's a teen book in the interview - Matt does, but Grevioux doesn't.

It's an adult team taking the name.

Can I further that theory?

The team will be made up of people who have quit because of registration (Firestar) and who have either escaped or are released from the Negative Zone Prison. Although if they are released the Thunderbolts would have no reason to exist.

Sesshomaru

01-09-2007, 07:21 PM

Sorry dude, I'm late coming in on Panther, but I'm way mad impressed. It's a truly unique take on the character - actually portraying him as a king. Well schooled in politics as well as the art of kicking ass.

While I think the retcon of having a lifelong thing for Storm is a bit clumsy, the dialogue and interaction between the two has been wonderful. And it's a relief to see a book with all these black folks, and not a single swivelin' head yet.

And the scenes with Isiah Bradley were so damn great.

precisely some people are still hang up upon the "vile marketing" idea of the wedding . but so far it has been quite great for both characters .

General_Tojo

01-09-2007, 07:29 PM

Underworld was the worst film ever crafted by human hands, an ignorant hackjob that delivered Michael Bay level anti-audience cruelty, all as part of Kate Beckinsale's quest to star in all things gutless and unnuanced. A long time ago, she was an actress. But Laurence Olivier and Meryl Streep couldn't have saved the cavalcade of misunderstood cliche and failed characterization that was Underworld. Some people say the sequel was better, but I didn't have the courage after the trauma of seeing the original on the big screen.

That said, I am not necessarily prejudiced against a New Warriors series. In the past, the New Warriors have seen good runs and terrible runs, so conceptually I want to have a look at it. There are some good line-up possibilities, and the outlaw concept of an anti-registration team appeals to me. But I wonder if Mr. Grevioux can deliver in a genre where he can't plagiarize ideas from White Wolf and Nancy Collins (http://www.gamingreport.com/article.php?sid=10015). If you're familiar with the source material at all, the fact that he blatantly stole from other creators is kind of a given. The fact that he stole so much while also making a rotten film makes one worry.

So, expect more Black creators to be flocking to Marvel, all thanks for Hudlin, who stuck by his guns instead of trying to hide his Blackness or water down his stories to satisfy immature fanboys.There are a lot of great black creators out there, who don't hide their "Blackness", but I think Reginald Hudlin blew it in terms of dialogue and the bizarre behavior of the guest-star characters, and I don't believe that thinking so makes me an "immature fanboy." Where he succeeded, I think, was big ideas, and the idea that Black Panther should be acting on a global stage rather than doing things that only matter in Wakanda or Washington, DC. That, and the book sells better with Storm in it. But it is kind of obvious that the romance was shoe-horned into the characters, and while they did a lot to establish it as if it had been there all along but it still rang pretty hollow. Black Panther's characterization was better than his supporting casts (especialy Ororo), but he seems a little too perfect now; I like flawed heroes better. The message of the book seems to be that the world's problems would be fixed if everyone listened to T'Challa-- or, by extension, Mr. Hudlin. So everyone else in the book has to be a bit of an idiot for that to work, and it disservices both the other characters and T'Challa himself.

Just my opinions, though.

SumpThing

01-09-2007, 07:31 PM

But he's from Hollywood! All the other guys on the Newsarama Marvel board told me Hollywood people don't even know who Spider-Man is!

you need a new gimmick.

PaxHouse

01-09-2007, 07:56 PM

Actually, as an old-school fan, this sounds more like back to basics New Warriors than the last few times we've seen them. Certainly more so than Wells' take.

That leaves:
Firestar -- choice No. 1. Arguably one of the most high-profile characters, considering she's not used much. Was a founder of the original team. Recently retired, but that can be undone easily enough. Still, like I said before, I think she would care less about the team name than the people on it, if that makes sense. I also think, unless she's clearly the leader, it'd be a step back for the character, considering her stint as an Avenger.

Rage -- He's the favorite right now, as far as I'm concerned. This series makes me think it even more, since I think Rage really would care about the name of the team, as much as the people in it. This would make me ecstatic, by the way.

Other choices include:
* Timeslip -- would thrill me to no end, but I don't think she's high enough profile.
* Silhouette -- possible. We know she's cameoing at least in AI. Don't know if that would preclude her.
* Helix -- seems very unlikely
* Scarlet Spider -- is he even still alive? He disappeared in some crossver with the Spider-books that I didn't get.
* Dagger -- not really a team member, and I don't think she'd really care about the New Warriors name.
* Aegis -- was part of the much-maligned v.2.
* Debrii -- was part of the much-maligned v.3, and didn't like the Warriors to begin with.
* Ultra-Girl -- never actually appeared in a single issue of NW.
* Hindsight -- considering what happened in She-Hulk, seems unlikely. (Though I hope that gets referenced/dealt with in an issue at some point.)
* Bandit -- I think his dislike of the team would be too strong.

A few corrections are in order......

Scarlet Spider {who later became the 2nd Spider-Man} was killed by the Green Goblin[Norman Osborn] within the pages of PETER PARKER: SPIDER-MAN #75; unless you were referring to the Joe Wade/Scarlet Spider version......

Plus you've left off Alex Power [Zero-G of POWER PACK and previous known as POWERPAX/POWERHOUSE], in which he became a Warrior during the time within the NW First Volume, especially with the status of the Pack in question due to his sister Julie as a 'member' of THE LONERS.......

Abstrakt

01-09-2007, 08:15 PM

A few corrections are in order......

Scarlet Spider {who later became the 2nd Spider-Man} was killed by the Green Goblin[Norman Osborn] within the pages of PETER PARKER: SPIDER-MAN #75; unless you were referring to the Joe Wade/Scarlet Spider version......

Plus you've left off Alex Power [Zero-G of POWER PACK and previous known as POWERPAX/POWERHOUSE], in which he became a Warrior during the time within the NW First Volume, especially with the status of the Pack in question due to his sister Julie as a 'member' of THE LONERS.......

joe wade scarlet spider?

Titan Slade

01-09-2007, 08:21 PM

Actually he does, he reads comics, writes his own books for Alias. Kevin actually knows quite a bit about comics, from the conversations i've had with him.

If you only knew the real truth Jamal. The comic book creator basher posters around here, don't know their elbows from their a-holes when it comes to producing publishable comic books for todays market. Take their numb nuts comments with a grain of salt. A guy writing published scripts for movies knows more about comic book scripting then a fanboy who reads comic books and has never written a published script of any kind ever will. Get published by a major player in the game before you start acting like you know anything fanboy.;)

motteditor

01-09-2007, 08:27 PM

Elixir

01-09-2007, 08:33 PM

. At this point there are two teams of teen heroes around (three if you count Xavier's kids), and neither of these groups are particularly good at taking orders or behaving.

Just curious, but why would you NOT count "Xaviers" kids? (technically, Xavier has nothing to do with this group)

They're a proper team in training now with Scott bascially handing the reigns to Nori allowing her to do what she thinks best including adding members if she wants.

I don't understand why so many people overlook New X-Men, yet acknowledge Young Avengers and Runaways (both great, great books admittedly). New X-Men is really hitting its stride and is just SO good right now!

Anyway, I'm hoping Jubes will show up in New Warriors, repowered somehow, Joe's been going on about her long enough. How about Gravity whilst we're at it? Arana maybe?

If not teens, how about the new Iron Spider?

Somebody

01-09-2007, 09:21 PM

Which New Warrriors didn't die in Stamford?

For example, does this mean a return of Firestar, Justice, and Nova?
Nova's central in Annihilation, and is getting his own space-based ongoing coming out of that written by Dan Abnett & Andy Lanning (who wrote his Annihilation mini, and Legion a couple of years back).

KyleV

01-09-2007, 09:31 PM

It's a truly unique take on the character - actually portraying him as a king. Well schooled in politics as well as the art of kicking ass.

Not to derail the thread or anything, but this isn't unique -- Priest did it first.

And he did it better, for that matter.

kitty_tc

01-09-2007, 10:11 PM

When a Black Panther series lasts longer than a Thing comic and outsells various titles starring classic White heroes (She-Hulk, ...

Umm, She-Hulk is GREEN.

:D

AbacusComics

01-09-2007, 11:09 PM

Typical Hollywood guy, not knowing ANYTHING about comics!!!

I've been friends with Kevin for a long time, and I can guarantee you he probably knows more about comics than your average fanboy.

motteditor

01-09-2007, 11:16 PM

Not to mention, apparently, microbiology. Since I think most of us fanboys know nothing about that.

BanMan

01-09-2007, 11:18 PM

I'm curious how all these teen teams and slightly older teens teams are going exist. So far you have Runaways, New X-men, New Warriors, Young Avengers, and the Loners. those are just the ones getting titles.

In an ideal world they'd all be quality books. Besides they all have a little twist on the teen, young adult theme. They'll exist the same way all the teams of adult heroes exist (X-Men, Fantastic Four, Avengers and whoever else spills out of Civil War).

joefloat

01-09-2007, 11:28 PM

I have but one name to mention: RAGE!

Bullet_Train

01-10-2007, 12:26 AM

Typical Hollywood guy, not knowing ANYTHING about comics!!!

Yeah, except you know, hes obviously read old NW issues and talked about their debut in Thor, which most people didnt know. And having read old FF...you're right, he knows nothing...Did you even read the article or did you just see actor/writer and decide to post?

paulski

01-10-2007, 02:48 AM

Dude go back to sleep.
Kevin knows more about comics than most of the people on this board.
Huh. I was wondering why I missed that clown's comment the first time, Scott, but it was obviously because he's on Ignore. Obviously he didn't bother reading the interview because Kevin's comics knowledge and love for the medium is obvious to anyone who bothered to. :)

This guy has the best voice ever. He's the gigantic werewolf in Underworld.
Yup. He is one scary sumbitch. :eek: ;)

ssava

01-10-2007, 08:53 AM

Yeah...how does a guy like this still have an account??

This isn't the FIRST time he's spoken up and sounded like an idiot on a thread about Kevin....

Yeah, typical Joe, hiring black people to write comic books! Whotta maroon!

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?p=2946705#post2946705

Matt..is this how you want the boards to be??

If this is supposed to be Sarcasm...I don't think anyone's getting it.

immortus

01-10-2007, 11:05 AM

Yeah...how does a guy like this still have an account??

This isn't the FIRST time he's spoken up and sounded like an idiot on a thread about Kevin....

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?p=2946705#post2946705

Matt..is this how you want the boards to be??

If this is supposed to be Sarcasm...I don't think anyone's getting it.

I hate to pull away the curtain for a moment, but yes, it is sarcasm, specifically joking hyperbolic comments based on what other people on Newsarama say. For example, the post you linked to was responding to one which apparently decried Quesada's habit of hiring black people with Hollywood ties.

And, obviously, the posts I've made on this thread refer to the perception held by many people on Newsarama that Hollywood writers don't know how to write comics and don't know anything about comics. And the habit many Newsarama readers have of responding to an article without reading any of it.

Now, could we get back to blaming Joe Quesada for global warming?

PaxHouse

01-10-2007, 11:16 AM

I knew I was forgetting someone. I don't think Alex is a likely candidate with his sister in Loners, though.

Previously, I would've disagree with you; but after reading Grevioux's Interview about his intentions for the newest Team of Warriors, I truly see your point......

However, I think that while it's possible for Rage to be one of the candidates for the 'returning' Warrior; I couldn't stop thinking that {given his nature} one of the newer members could possible be........

Jack Power AKA Mass Master, considering his rebellous attitude throughout the POWER PACK (Original) Series, in addition to the fact that he's a Teen {at this point in time within the MU}.........

Ebon

01-10-2007, 11:41 AM

I'll want to see a roster, first. Since Marvel has killed off virtually all their teenaged heroes who aren't mutants or already in a team, I wonder how they'll fill that out. Gravity would have been good but like another poster said, he's dead (at least right now; that's gotta be one of the shortest careers I've ever seen. Get your own miniseries and then killed in your second appearance after that).

If we got to see more of Justice, that would be good; I'd like to see him go back to a secret ID and another costume. I have no idea what side he came down on in CW, but going back to a secret ID seems a real good idea right now.

motteditor

01-10-2007, 11:49 AM

I'll want to see a roster, first. Since Marvel has killed off virtually all their teenaged heroes who aren't mutants or already in a team, I wonder how they'll fill that out.

I'd say there are tons of candidates (especially if you include young adults, not just teens), not counting former Warriors we've already discussed: Southpaw, all of the original Beta Flight, Southpaw, Bengal, the Mad Nephew's thinker (who'd basically be a new character), Southpaw, any of Psionex, the Spellbinders, Southpaw, maybe the Livewires, Living Lightning, the Wakandan who was in Fantastic Force (Vibraxas?), the new Scorpion, any of the depowered New Mutants (I really like the idea of one of them continuing on as a hero sans powers, a la Rictor), Southpaw, members of the New Pride, and I'm sure there are more I'm blanking on at the moment. Oh, and Southpaw would make a fabulous Warrior. I'm not saying any of these would definitely make for great stories, but they're all candidates.

Have I ever mentioned I really like Southpaw?

Scott Mateo

01-11-2007, 01:12 AM

You should be thanking Hudlin since he's proven that Black writers can actually sell comics, thus paving the way for McDuffie (one of Hudlin's best friends) and Grevioux.

If anything it's the other way around and Dwayne McDuffie paved the way for Hudlin. Dwayne created Static Shock, the Milestone universe almost 20 years ago, and was story editor (as well as writer) for the Justice League Unlimited cartoon, and he still has time to chat with fans in his forum (I hope he gets a chance to write Dr. Who some day, he's got some great story ideas involving Gallifrey).

Scott Mateo

01-11-2007, 01:15 AM

If we got to see more of Justice, that would be good; I'd like to see him go back to a secret ID and another costume. I have no idea what side he came down on in CW, but going back to a secret ID seems a real good idea right now.

As I'm sure you heard Vance is going to be in the Avengers: Initiative, which leads me to believe that Firestar will be the original NW returning to the team. As for what side he's on, evidently he was imprisoned and rescued from the Negative zone prison - off panel. You can see him in the background at secret Avengers HQ in one of the Civil War issues (he's behind Nighthawk).

New Warrior

01-12-2007, 10:35 PM

I just can not wait!!!!!

(somehow I missed this thread, so I'm getting here a little late). Whoops.

Eric Palicki

01-16-2007, 01:41 PM

I must have missed that. :P

All I remember after spending my money to see Underworld in the theatres was that for a movie that was about vampires fighting werewolves, it didn't happen for more than five minutes of screen time. And that it's one of the two movies I've ever considered walking out on.

UNDERWORLD was ROMEO & JULIET with werewolves and vampires instead of Montegues and Capulets (pardon my spelling...). There wasn't much actual 'fighting' in ROMEO & JULIET, either...doesn't mean it wasn't worth seeing.

GrimmGargoyl

01-17-2007, 12:28 AM

Love this. A little meta commentary even. Which makes me think more that it could be Rage as the returning Warrior. While Firestar (who I think is really the only other viable alternative at this point) certainly cares about the team, I think the name itself would matter more to Rage; Firestar would be more concerned with the people who made up the team. I'd love for Rage to get some prominence again. Now I'm trying to think of who else this might include -- you'd think they'd have to have some links to the old team that would make them care, no?

I think you may be on to something there as Rage was the main person talking about the fact that it was 624 people who died at the Stamford incident. Another thing since he was pretty much the ward of Dwayne Taylor at the time of his death, that most likely makes him the sole beneficiary of whatever wealth he had left. Not only this, but the fact that Thrash was also a mento to Rage, he's pretty much got not only Brawn, but brains. Who else would be better to gather a group of heroes in their late teen/early twenties and form a new team to redeem the name of the Warriors. Something to think about.

{EDIT} And as far as a few possible candidates for membership, I'm just going off the top of my head with a few possibilites:

Mathemaniac - Member of Psionex, actual ally to the New Warriors a few times
Darkling - Perfect chance for him to come back. The Warriors were after all the ones who made him realize what he was doing to NY.
Coal Tiger - A recent hero and one who has the speed and agility of the Black Panther's totem.
Hybrid - Former ally of Vance Astrovik while in the Vault and recipiant of the collective conciousness symbiote.

That's all I can think of at the moment, but it is late so I might have more ideas later.

PaxHouse

01-17-2007, 11:45 AM

I think you may be on to something there as Rage was the main person talking about the fact that it was 624 people who died at the Stamford incident. Another thing since he was pretty much the ward of Dwayne Taylor at the time of his death, that most likely makes him the sole beneficiary of whatever wealth he had left. Not only this, but the fact that Thrash was also a mento to Rage, he's pretty much got not only Brawn, but brains. Who else would be better to gather a group of heroes in their late teen/early twenties and form a new team to redeem the name of the Warriors. Something to think about.

{EDIT} And as far as a few possible candidates for membership, I'm just going off the top of my head with a few possibilites:

Mathemaniac - Member of Psionex, actual ally to the New Warriors a few times
Darkling - Perfect chance for him to come back. The Warriors were after all the ones who made him realize what he was doing to NY.
Coal Tiger - A recent teen hero and one who has the speed and agility of the Black Panther's totem.
Hybrid - Former ally of Vance Astrovik while in the Vault and recipiant of the collective conciousness symbiote.

That's all I can think of at the moment, but it is late so I might have more ideas later.

Slight correct about the Coal Tiger, in that he's from the MC2 MU {Spider-Girl World}, not the 616 one....

Unless you're thinking of Vibraxas {former member of FANTASTIC FORCE:rolleyes: AND a Wankadan}......

And I agree with you, as far as for seeing Rage as a member of the newest Warrior Team.....

PaxHouse

01-17-2007, 11:48 AM

Sean Chen for the artist, perhaps? Or Zircher?

I will check out the book depending on the artist. Here's to it being a dependable creative team that doesn't go Young Avengers on us again (ie delays).

Well.....you're almost correct in your guess on an artist doing a New Warriors; since the April Solicts for Marvel revealed that Mr. Chen will be working on NOVA......:D

As for Zircher.....much as I would like to see him {back} doing NEW WARRIORS; I'll "wait-n-see" instead......;) :cool:

motteditor

01-17-2007, 01:15 PM

{EDIT} And as far as a few possible candidates for membership, I'm just going off the top of my head with a few possibilites:

Mathemaniac - Member of Psionex, actual ally to the New Warriors a few times
Darkling - Perfect chance for him to come back. The Warriors were after all the ones who made him realize what he was doing to NY.
Coal Tiger - A recent teen hero and one who has the speed and agility of the Black Panther's totem.
Hybrid - Former ally of Vance Astrovik while in the Vault and recipiant of the collective conciousness symbiote.

I think you can only use one Psionex member, though I'd agree one of them (Mathy, IMO) would make a good Warrior. They'd also continue to make good foils, and hopefully will be used in some way.

Wasn't really a fan of Hybrid. We hardly need more symbiote characters, IMO. I already have to suffer with Venom in TBolts.

Slight correct about the Coal Tiger, in that he's from the MC2 MU {Spider-Girl World}, not the 616 one....

CT was also the name of the alternate Black Panther in the Gatherers story in Bob Harras' Avengers (mid 300s). Vibraxas would be a good choice for the team, I think, in that he fills a lot of the qualities the original Warriors had as existing characters who didn't have a whole lot of history to them, though again why he'd give a darn about the NW name is beyond me.

GrimmGargoyl

01-17-2007, 02:41 PM

Slight correct about the Coal Tiger, in that he's from the MC2 MU {Spider-Girl World}, not the 616 one....

Unless you're thinking of Vibraxas {former member of FANTASTIC FORCE:rolleyes: AND a Wankadan}......

And I agree with you, as far as for seeing Rage as a member of the newest Warrior Team.....

My Mistake I was thinking of Kasper Cole from "The Crew" miniseries. The newest White Tiger before the female one came along.

motteditor

01-17-2007, 05:23 PM

I've been debating whether I think any of the Crew characters would work here. I just feel like they were a bit too old (and less invested in "traditional" superheroes than would be required to be on the Warriors). I'd love to see them again though.

kitamu re

01-28-2007, 05:04 AM

no bight thrasher no dollars from me. What was marvel thinking killing of thrash. first synch then thrash talk about affirmative action:mad: