Is Wonder Woman Really In The DC Trinity?

[TS24]

DC pimps Superman, Batman & Wonder Woman as the DC Universe's powerful trinity. But does she actually belong in the Elite of DC's stable of characters? When has Wonder Woman been presented as a strong character in the DC universe? In the late 90's when when Deodato was drawing her? Rucka's recent run on her title? Wonder Woman has 1 title, and appears in the JLA. Superman & Batman have multiple titles of their own and even their supporting cast have their own titles. Wonder Woman in my opinion doesn't have the appeal to be considered in DC's Trinity. She has 1 book that features her. The DC Trinity should be Superman, Batman & Green Lantern. You have Green Lantern, Ion & GL: Corps. So wouldn't GL be the character with the most books besides Bats & Superman and complete the DC trinity? Wonder Woman isn't the character that DC is trying to make her. She has the pop culture appeal but lacks the popularity and fan intrest to support more than one comic focused on her or her mythology.

[MatthewSmith]

When DC refers to those three as the Trinity, they mean the three most instantly recognizable characters. It doesn't necessarily mean the most important in the comic book universe. All three characters have gone through spurts of bad stories where they seemingly lost their Trinity status character-wise. But in the pulic eye, those three are always still DC's biggest characters.

[Groovie Mann]

DC pimps Superman, Batman & Wonder Woman as the DC Universe's powerful trinity. But does she actually belong in the Elite of DC's stable of characters? When has Wonder Woman been presented as a strong character in the DC universe? In the late 90's when when Deodato was drawing her? Rucka's recent run on her title? Wonder Woman has 1 title, and appears in the JLA. Superman & Batman have multiple titles of their own and even their supporting cast have their own titles. Wonder Woman in my opinion doesn't have the appeal to be considered in DC's Trinity. She has 1 book that features her. The DC Trinity should be Superman, Batman & Green Lantern. You have Green Lantern, Ion & GL: Corps. So wouldn't GL be the character with the most books besides Bats & Superman and complete the DC trinity? Wonder Woman isn't the character that DC is trying to make her. She has the pop culture appeal but lacks the popularity and fan intrest to support more than one comic focused on her or her mythology.


hm... first off you can't compare WW's one book with GL's three books because, well, those three books have different green lanterns in the lead. so technically it couldn't be a trinity in that respects anyway.

wonder woman doesn't have the same appeal as superman or batman, presently. but she's also had more sucess then any other female lead book. wonder woman is also one of the only 5 characters to coninually get published from the golden age into the silver age. two of thsoe characters however we being published in a "two-for-one" type magaine. and she's more historical in the sense she was the first female character headlining a book.

as for multiple titles, the reason her popualrity dropped off is because of the stupidity of a writer back in the 60s/70s who decided to make her more "relevent" and got rid of her powers effectively killing a good amount of her popularity. there was a time when WW was headlining two titles and actually outselling superman and batman because she was drawing in both the male and female fans.

also, as said above, wonder womans far more recogniable. thats why she's a part of the trinity.

now, back to GL, keep in mind the original wasn't popular enough to support his own book into the silver age and hal has had his series canceled twice in the past. there is also little in the way of mainstream success for the character. people may wear GL shirts but do they know who hal is? guy? if anything john stewarts mroe recognizble as green lantern then hal is to non comic fans. there is a surge of green lantern popularity now but that doesn't make hal, kyle, or even guy a part of the trinity in any respects.

[Punchy]

She is, but she shouldn't be.

It should be the Flash.

[MatthewSmith]

She is, but she shouldn't be.

It should be the Flash.

Feminist movement made it to where you gotta have a woman in the Trinity.

[Groovie Mann]

i'm pretty sure the subtle lesbianism, bondage, S&M and female spanking in those early WW did more than enough to make WW a part of the trinity.

but WW is my fav trinity member anyway so i'm biased. never liked flash. don't think i ever will.

[BatWolverine]

She is, but she shouldn't be.

It should be the Flash.
Neither Flash nor Green Lantern can be in the Trinity, just because it isn't one character who defines them. Just as inspite of Jean-Paul and Dick Grayson's run as the Bat, it is Bruce Wayne who is the Batman, so is it for Wonder Woman.

Artemis, Hippolyta, Donna Troy. For all their showings, they are nothing but footnotes in the Wonder Woman mythos. It is Diana who defines the Double-W.

Onto Flash. Wally West is the most famous/visible Flash, but still many fans seem to hold onto Barry's Flash. And lets not forget Jay and Bart.

Lastly, Green Lantern?! There are supposed to be 3600 of them. To use the clout of all of them to push your choice of Lantern, whether it be Hal, Kyle or even John (Alan doesn't count and that other Guy won't ever be there), it doesn't work the same as the big three.

[Groovie Mann]

you know, alan and guy are my fav green lanterns. though i don't buy Guys title, dave gibbons writing is "eh" for me. though The Originals rocked.

might try Guys mini series though.

[BatWolverine]

you know, alan and guy are my fav green lanterns. though i don't buy Guys title, dave gibbons writing is "eh" for me. though The Originals rocked.

might try Guys mini series though.
I like Alan too...a lot, but the reason I don't lump him with the others is because of the power source i.e. the Starheart.

[Punchy]

Neither Flash nor Green Lantern can be in the Trinity, just because it isn't one character who defines them. Just as inspite of Jean-Paul and Dick Grayson's run as the Bat, it is Bruce Wayne who is the Batman, so is it for Wonder Woman.

Artemis, Hippolyta, Donna Troy. For all their showings, they are nothing but footnotes in the Wonder Woman mythos. It is Diana who defines the Double-W.

Onto Flash. Wally West is the most famous/visible Flash, but still many fans seem to hold onto Barry's Flash. And lets not forget Jay and Bart.

Lastly, Green Lantern?! There are supposed to be 3600 of them. To use the clout of all of them to push your choice of Lantern, whether it be Hal, Kyle or even John (Alan doesn't count and that other Guy won't ever be there), it doesn't work the same as the big three.

Yeah, but Wonder Woman is so lame...

[HartyPotter]

I think DC tends to prioritize characters depending on how long ago they were created. Superman and Batman have always been thrust to the front because they are two of DC's oldest properties, and DC has always believed that the older something is, the more prestigious it must be. Wonder Woman's part of the trinity because they simply want to have a woman in there, and she's the "original" female superhero. DC has tons of newer characters that -- if given half a chance -- can prove to be much more inherently interesting than the trinity characters, but they'll never really be given a chance. I figure if Spider-Man and Wolverine were created or bought by DC early on, DC would've destroyed them rather than let them become more popular than their oldest properties. It's virtually the definition of the DC Trinity: Better than everyone else in the DCU.

[Sparro]

It is an interesting question regarding Wonder Woman's true status. I always thought that Robin was the third most popular\recognizable character in DCU history. He was certainly the third most influential archetype after Superman and Batman.

[BatWolverine]

Yeah, but Wonder Woman is so lame...
So is the *latest* Flash.

[Groovie Mann]

It is an interesting question regarding Wonder Woman's true status. I always thought that Robin was the third most popular\recognizable character in DCU history. He was certainly the third most influential archetype after Superman and Batman.

maybe it was the tights he was wearing at the time.

[BatWolverine]

It is an interesting question regarding Wonder Woman's true status. I always thought that Robin was the third most popular\recognizable character in DCU history. He was certainly the third most influential archetype after Superman and Batman.
Robin might be one of the oldest, but he isn't *influential*. For me, Batman and Superman signify the either side of the DC balance (of power, beliefs, morals, etc) with Wonder Woman making up for the mid-point, in that way though not as opposing (or even 'expansive') as the other two, she is an important part to hold everything in place.

Even city wise, almost every major DCU city (especially the 'created' ones) falls in between the standards set by Gotham and Metropolis.

[BatWolverine]

maybe it was the tights he was wearing at the time.
You mean the 'short pants', don't you? ;)

(The tights only showed up with Tim Drake's Robin)

[HartyPotter]

You mean the 'short pants', don't you? ;)

(The tights only showed up with Tim Drake's Robin)
Well, that's probably the reason Namor wasn't as popular as he should be.

[Groovie Mann]

You mean the 'short pants', don't you? ;)

(The tights only showed up with Tim Drake's Robin)

yeah. short pants.... ew...

[BatWolverine]

Well, that's probably the reason Namor wasn't as popular as he should be.
For Namor, even though he predates the other 'water boys' (n' gals), two things have gone seriously against him.

1. He has been turned into glorified stalker for Sue Storm-Richards and hence anything about him seemingly always points to that one thing.

2. It is easier (for children) to remember the name 'Aquaman' (the just have to remember Aqua or even 'qua....the *man* part is pretty much there) :D

[BatWolverine]

yeah. short pants.... ew...
Speaking of ew...what's with the sign? You got something against Canada. :mad: ;)

[Sparro]

[QUOTE=BatWolverine]Robin might be one of the oldest, but he isn't *influential*. For me, Batman and Superman signify the either side of the DC balance (of power, beliefs, morals, etc) with Wonder Woman making up for the mid-point, in that way though not as opposing (or even 'expansive') as the other two, she is an important part to hold everything in place.

]

I was referring to the iconic and influential nature of the character not his status in the fictional DCU world. Certainly the thousands of sidekicks and young heroes that were created after his debut were modeled after Robin's success as a character. Wonder Women while the most popular was not the first female super hero to be created in the Golden Age
I totally agree with your statement regarding WW's stauts in the fictional DCU

[Groovie Mann]

Speaking of ew...what's with the sign? You got something against Canada. :mad: ;)

you should watch the banner gif all the way through.

[Groovie Mann]

I was referring to the iconic and influential nature of the character not his status in the fictional DCU world. Certainly the thousands of sidekicks and young heroes that were created after his debut were modeled after Robin's success as a character. Wonder Women while the most popular was not the first female super hero to be created in the Golden Age
I totally agree with your statement regarding WW's stauts in the fictional DCU

yeah... but i think part of the problem with robins status was that he never actually carried a solo book. thats the only reasoning i can come up with.

[render man]

Feminist movement made it to where you gotta have a woman in the Trinity.
That's the fabled internet sarcasm right? No sane person could actually believe that.
It's obvious she belongs in the trinity, cause what DC characters have had successful running tv and movies after them? Only three, and that flash show only lasted a year, so that totally doesnt count.

[deganawida]

When DC refers to those three as the Trinity, they mean the three most instantly recognizable characters.

And this is why DC's real "Big Three" is composed of Superman, Batman, and Robin, as these are the most recognized comic book characters in America, and have been for 60 years.

[HartyPotter]

That's the fabled internet sarcasm right? No sane person could actually believe that.
It's obvious she belongs in the trinity, cause what DC characters have had successful running tv and movies after them? Only three, and that flash show only lasted a year, so that totally doesnt count.
And the only reason why she was given a tv series and movies was because she was already in the trinity then.

[Groovie Mann]

And this is why DC's real "Big Three" is composed of Superman, Batman, and Robin, as these are the most recognized comic book characters in America, and have been for 60 years.

well, they are the most recognizable but its still not the real trinity of DC. batman, superman, wonder woman are the same people. they've held on to their books longer period of time. plus, he was a sidekick and that doesn't help robin may be better known then wonder woman, but he's not a part of the big 3.

[Groovie Mann]

And the only reason why she was given a tv series and movies was because she was already in the trinity then.

i'm sure being the most recognizable female superhero of all time would have gotten her a movie and TV deal even if she wans't in the trinity.

[BatWolverine]

And the only reason why she was given a tv series and movies was because she was already in the trinity then.
No she wasn't. The whole 'Trinity' shtick is relatively new. At the time of the TV series, WW had come up on her own (just like any other comic character) and not because she was a third of some fabled 'all important' trio.

[drastic_q]

Wonder Woman belongs in the trinity because she is the preeminent female superhero in all of comics - not just DC.

[SouthtownKid]

When super-hero comics crashed and burned in the '50s, and for YEARS, they were replaced by western, horror, and sci-fi comics... Which heroes' comics survived, held on and continued uniterrupted until super-heroes made their comeback towards the '60s...bridging the gap between Golden Age and Silver Age?

Superman...Batman...Wonder Woman.

To quote Les Daniels from 'Wonder Woman: the Complete History':
"Along with colleagues Superman and Batman, Wonder Woman formed a triumvirate of the longest-lasting super heroes in American comic books, and that record continues today. Nobody else even comes close."

I can't believe people are even asking about this.

[Avenging Sun]

And this is why DC's real "Big Three" is composed of Superman, Batman, and Robin, as these are the most recognized comic book characters in America, and have been for 60 years.

Did any Robins besides Tim Drake ever have their own book? (Misus Spoiler before she died.) Tim never had two books at once, which Wonder Woman once did. Robin is like Green Lantern and Flash, anyway, there's more than one. Plus, he's a sidekick. That lowers his mojo. She lasted through the 1950s. And there will never be another comic book woman as influential and historic as Diana. She belongs in the trinity.

Flash and Green Lantern: Too many. Heard of, but still
Robin: Sidekick, AND Too Many.
Green Arrow and Aquaman: 50s Burnt Out.
Plastic Man: I'm not going into that.
Shazam: Good luck finding 10 average joes who have heard of him.

[hippyhunter]

At least DC is now reducing the amount of Batman and Superman books. Birds of Prey is no longer part of the Bat-line. Gotham Knights, Gotham Central, Batgirl, Azrael: Agent of the Bat, and Legends of the Dark Knight have been/will be canceled. Superman has been canceled with Adventures of Superman returning to the Superman name.

I'm thinking that Supergirl and one of the Bat-sidekick books: Robin, Nightwing, and Catwoman are next on the chopping block.

Sure there is Batman: Confidential and Superman: Confidential, but chances are if these books are successes, then there will be a Wonder Woman: Confidential.

While there is All-Star Batman and Robin and All-Star Superman, and while All-Star Batgirl is being made, All-Star Wonder Woman and All-Star Green Lantern are being made also.

[BatWolverine]

At least DC is now reducing the amount of Batman and Superman books. Birds of Prey is no longer part of the Bat-line. Gotham Knights, Gotham Central, Batgirl, Azrael: Agent of the Bat, and Legends of the Dark Knight have been/will be canceled. Superman has been canceled with Adventures of Superman returning to the Superman name.

I'm thinking that Supergirl and one of the Bat-sidekick books: Robin, Nightwing, and Catwoman are next on the chopping block.
(Even if it happens) Before any Robin or Nightwing cancellation, it will be Catwoman and/or Birds of Prey which will get the axe.

From the August 2006 sales figures:

NIGHTWING #123...40,111 (Rank: 59)
ROBIN #153...36,608 (Rank: 65)
BIRDS O/PREY #97...31,578 (Rank: 77)
CATWOMAN #58...26,568 (Rank: 88)

Continuing with Nightwing and Robin:

OUTSIDERS #39...40,524 (starring Nightwing)
TEEN TITANS #38 ...69,232 (Rank: 32) (starring Robin)

[Calax]

That's the fabled internet sarcasm right? No sane person could actually believe that.
It's obvious she belongs in the trinity, cause what DC characters have had successful running tv and movies after them? Only three, and that flash show only lasted a year, so that totally doesnt count.
what about the big red cheese of Cap Marvel? He's not as old but he's certainly recognizable under the name of shazam. He's out sold Superman before. I think DC tries to downplay him because he was not company created.

[hippyhunter]

(Even if it happens) Before any Robin or Nightwing cancellation, it will be Catwoman and/or Birds of Prey which will get the axe.

From the August 2006 sales figures:

NIGHTWING #123...40,111 (Rank: 59)
ROBIN #153...36,608 (Rank: 65)
BIRDS O/PREY #97...31,578 (Rank: 77)
CATWOMAN #58...26,568 (Rank: 88)

Continuing with Nightwing and Robin:

OUTSIDERS #39...40,524 (starring Nightwing)
TEEN TITANS #38 ...69,232 (Rank: 32) (starring Robin)

Birds of Prey is no longer a Bat-book. The Birds of Prey basically managed to get themselves away from Batman's control.

I'm thinking that Catwoman or Nightwing will get the axe first. Catwoman because Selina Kyle is no longer Catwoman and Nightwing because Bruce Jones has f**ked that book up so badly now.

[BatWolverine]

Birds of Prey is no longer a Bat-book. The Birds of Prey basically managed to get themselves away from Batman's control.

I'm thinking that Catwoman or Nightwing will get the axe first. Catwoman because Selina Kyle is no longer Catwoman and Nightwing because Bruce Jones has f**ked that book up so badly now.
For the BoP, getting away from the Bat doesn't seem to have given any advantage to them. In fact, if compared against the sales figures from a year ago (Aug 2005: BoP #76 - 32,076), the numbers have gone down. Not much, about 500 but they have.

At the same time, Nightwing compared with a year ago i.e NW #111, has gone from 36,146 to 40,111. So, inspite of Bruce Jones and his Night-F'ing, that title doesn't look to be losing out. And with the new team taking up with #125, it is pretty sure set for an increase.

Go two years back, and things are pretty much the same (as with 2005). So, overall, the BoP has only lost out with distancing itself from the Bat-insignia.

[hippyhunter]

For the BoP, getting away from the Bat doesn't seem to have given any advantage to them. In fact, if compared against the sales figures from a year ago (Aug 2005: BoP #76 - 32,076), the numbers have gone down. Not much, about 500 but they have.

At the same time, Nightwing compared with a year ago i.e NW #111, has gone from 36,146 to 40,111. So, inspite of Bruce Jones and his Night-F'ing, that title doesn't look to be losing out. And with the new team taking up with #125, it is pretty sure set for an increase.

Go two years back, and things are pretty much the same (as with 2005). So, overall, the BoP has only lost out with distancing itself from the Bat-insignia.

I think quality wise, Birds of Prey is better without the influence of the Bat

[BatWolverine]

I think quality wise, Birds of Prey is better without the influence of the Bat
'Influence of the Bat!!' I don't think Batman was all that much in the title anyway...that is if one doesn't go as far as putting Nightwing's appearances in the Bat column.

Then again if that is the case (or even if isn't), with the Bat-distancing did bring us one good thing. Nightwing got free from having to put the obligatory showing as 'the boyfriend'. He too is free from the shackles of this title (and its characters).

[Groovie Mann]

'Influence of the Bat!!' I don't think Batman was all that much in the title anyway...that is if one doesn't go as far as putting Nightwing's appearances in the Bat column.

.

i've been reading Gail's BoP title for a while and i can only think of 4 batman apeparences and none of them were all that relevant. so yeah, he hasn't had too much influence on the series.

[BatWolverine]

i've been reading Gail's BoP title for a while and i can only think of 4 batman apeparences and none of them were all that relevant. so yeah, he hasn't had too much influence on the series.
Thank you very much. The only 'major' Bat appearances in recent times were during the Crisis issues (and those leading to it), and that is nothing special...after all, during that time, everyone was just about everywhere.

Also, as some people say that inspite of Cassie, Barbara is known as Batgirl...it also works the other way around, that is....

...inspite of all the Oracle shtick, it is her time as Batgirl that still defines her character. After all, even the upcoming *All-Star* title is going to be All-Star Batgirl and NOT All-Star Oracle.

[Strict31]

Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman are household names, even among people who have never read comics. Even if they associate Wonder Woman more with Lynda Carter than anything introduced in the comics, that's still more recognition than even Flash and GL get among mainstream joes.

She is in the so-called trinity because like Superman and Batman, she's a widely (perhaps even globally) recognized icon of comics, and has been for decades.

[Skyrider]

Funny thing is that two years ago DC stated they wanted to make GL their next franchise character. I'd say they've succeeded. :cool:

[hickryhawkin]

One reason she's in the Trinity is that she was the third big superhero! Superman came first, then we got Batman, then here comes WonderWoman. These were the three superheroes that DC was built on! Now in the present, DC is yakkin on and on about how WW is in the Trinity but it seems like they are doing everything in their power to bury her at the same time.

and for those who didn't like Greg Rucka's run, well, you actually had to read the books! I loved his stuff. If any or you would like examples, just go to the damn library and check out WONDER WOMAN:THE HIKETEIA or just sit at a B&N or BooksaMillion and read LAND OF THE DEAD.

I can bet you money that even if you read these books for free, you will want to buy them to have in your collection. And another thing, if you can't find yourself liking WonderWoman, that's fine, but some of you people don't have to spend so much time trashing her. There are plent of characters that I can't stand but I don't go on boards yakkin about how I can't stand them.

anyhow, I gotta take up for my Woman!

[Eclypse2005]

Well Wonder Woman is in the DC trinity for more than just popularity reasons. I think it was Didio that stated that Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman represent 3 different aspects that make up the DCU. Batman represents the detective/mystery aspect. Superman represents the space/alpha hero model, and Wonder Woman handles the mythological/magic aspect of the DCU. They were the first heroes to have these qualities and all the other hero's are derivatives of these characters, which also make those three iconic and why they are so popular today.

[SouthtownKid]

nd for those who didn't like Greg Rucka's run, well, you actually had to read the books! I loved his stuff.For me, his run was held back by some of the artists he got. Great covers, but some of the interior art did not hold up.

[Kid Kamikaze]

Well Wonder Woman is in the DC trinity for more than just popularity reasons. I think it was Didio that stated that Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman represent 3 different aspects that make up the DCU. Batman represents the detective/mystery aspect. Superman represents the space/alpha hero model, and Wonder Woman handles the mythological/magic aspect of the DCU. They were the first heroes to have these qualities and all the other hero's are derivatives of these characters, which also make those three iconic and why they are so popular today.

One mess up, Captain Marvel handles the magic end of the DCU. WW handles the mythological.

Seriously, she's in the Trinity because of how long she been around, and her popularity, not the amount of story potential she has. Of course, there are some characters better than her in character and in story potential (I've been adamant about this), but that's not why she's a part of the Trinity.

She one of the first Superheroines ever. That's why (though the same argument could be said about Phantom Lady, but that never worked out).

[Mrkeystone]

Yes,she is and she earned it. I still say, however, that sheDOESN'T warrant a current moive.:)

[MoneyMelon]

I know Wonder Woman is supposed to be one of the "big 3", but honestly, I can't recall her ever having a big defining moment. She's kind of a bland character to me.