Is Black Adam stronger than Wonder Woman?

[ArkhamAsylum]

It seems to me that Adam is on the same level as Captain Marvel who is about as strong as Superman and where necessary could even take him out. Does that put both Adam and Billy a notch above Diana?

Could they take her?

[Kenro]

It seems to me that Adam is on the same level as Captain Marvel who is about as strong as Superman and where necessary could even take him out. Does that put both Adam and Billy a notch above Diana?

Could they take her?

Damn good question. That's a match-up I've never thought of. That's a pick-em type of match-up right there.

[deganawida]

Could they take her?

Billy couldn't. He's still in puberty.

(Sorry, couldn't pass that up).

[Hobowatcher]

Billy couldn't. He's still in puberty.

(Sorry, couldn't pass that up).
Doesn't mean he doesn't want to try.

[JT Skywalker]

Wonder Woman's martial skills are probably quite superior to Black Adam's. If her power isn't quite at his level, then her fighting ability would make up the difference, probably two-fold.

~JTS

[MikeShaynePI]

Billy couldn't. He's still in puberty.

(Sorry, couldn't pass that up).
Sure he could. He's 15. They could totally DP her.

[deganawida]

Sure he could. He's 15. They could totally DP her.

I thought he was 12?

[ArkhamAsylum]

Wonder Woman's martial skills are probably quite superior to Black Adam's. If her power isn't quite at his level, then her fighting ability would make up the difference, probably two-fold.

~JTS

Black Adam is no pushover. I would argue that he is probably as strong as superman and a much better (dirtier) fighter. Adam is ruthless and completely fearless and would undoubtely be the aggressor in the fight. I definitely give that advantage to BA. Im unsure of his vulnerability though. anybody know ?

I think Black Adam vs. Wonder Woman is a match up waiting to happen. Ofcourse DC will probably give the match to Diana purely based on the fact that they couldnt have a morally grey character like Adam defeat a feminist icon, atleast not without giving Diana's character some kind of excuse to lose.

[ArkhamAsylum]

Wonder Woman's martial skills are probably quite superior to Black Adam's. If her power isn't quite at his level, then her fighting ability would make up the difference, probably two-fold.

~JTS

not to mention that you cant exactly kung fu your way out of a lightning bolt.

[Power Guy]

DC has made several statments in recent years that Wonder Woman in second in strength only to Superman so therefore I would say that Black Adam is third in line right next to Captain Marvel.

[ArkhamAsylum]

DC has made several statments in recent years that Wonder Woman in second in strength only to Superman so therefore I would say that Black Adam is third in line right next to Captain Marvel.


why does that make Cap and Adam at 3? I think DC has also implied on many occasions that Cap is as strong as Superman. Since Adam is Caps equal, that pretty much makes them both stronger than Wonder Woman.

[Regulator]

why does that make Cap and Adam at 3? I think DC has also implied on many occasions that Cap is as strong as Superman. Since Adam is Caps equal, that pretty much makes them both stronger than Wonder Woman.

Circular logic is awesome.

Maybe it makes all three the same. :rolleyes:

[achilles140]

You can't resolve questions like these definitively, since DC loves to have its cake and eat it. They have many contradictory statements and depictions as to who is stronger or more powerful than who.

Cap is indeed supposed to be just as strong as Superman. BA is also I believe supposed to be as strong as Cap; therefore he SHOULD prove to be as strong as Superman, which would make them BOTH stronger than Wonder Woman, who is NOT supposed to be as strong as Supes.

Add in the Martian Manhunter, who is also supposed to be as strong as Superman; Supergirl, who was so powerful and strong that she had Superman himself believing for a time that she was MORE powerful than he is----something he has never thought about Diana.

Add to that Power Girl, who is simply the E-2 version of SG; and of whom it is implied at least in several ways is just as powerful as SG when powered fully.

ANY of these could concievably be MORE powerful and STRONGER than Diana. In fact, given Diana just doesn't have as many powers as most of these guys, and some of the ones she does have are decidedly minor; it doesn't make any sense for DC to claim that Diana is "second only to Superman" in power.

She doesn't have true invulnerability, (in theory anyway). She has no supersenses, no intangibility, no mind reading, no invisibility, no magic lightning, not heat vision, no way to take a quick sun-dip and get much more powerful very quickly; as any of the three Kryptonians can.

Her basic major powers are simply superstrength, superspeed, flight, and a degree of invulnerability, (she's nigh-invulerable, to borrow from the Tick).

So there's no WAY she should be more POWERFUL than all these guys with all these powers, any of whom might also be more powerful than she is in her major powers.

But wait, it gets worse. The "second only to Superman" in power thing ignore the characters who are demonstably MORE powerful than Superman; such as the Spectre, the Thunderbolt, or Ion. It also ignores characters who COULD be more powerful, but whose very nature makes such comparisons hard to do, such as Dr. Fate, Zatanna, or Alan Scott, (who come to think of it has ALSO been touted at times as "potentially the most powerful being on Earth).

What CAN be said about all of this is that ANY of these characters will be precisely as powerful as each writer of each story decides they need to be. Which is I suppose the beauty of DC's puposely muddying the waters.

[Strict31]

The old post-crisis DC Heroes RPG put out by Mayfair was written with creative input and oversight by the prominent DC writers and editors at the time. It placed Cap and Adam at equal levels of strength, with Diana being less strong than either. Superman and Power Girl was statted with higher strength than all of them.

But in recent years, it has been stated that Diana is second in strength only to Superman himself. So, this means, at a minimum, she is at least as strong as Cap and Adam and at best, stronger.

[ElijahSnowFan]

ok, now wait a minute -- isn't the Martian Manhunter supposed to be damn near as strong as Superman?

i swear, i always got the impression that he was the second-strongest in the DC Universe, followed by Wonder Woman/Captain Marvel/Black Adam.

[Proud Texan]

Little known fact - Black Adam is a superior dancer.

Seriously. Dude knows how to boogie!

[Strict31]

ok, now wait a minute -- isn't the Martian Manhunter supposed to be damn near as strong as Superman?

i swear, i always got the impression that he was the second-strongest in the DC Universe, followed by Wonder Woman/Captain Marvel/Black Adam.

If all of these cats are of equal strength, but still weaker than Superman, they can each individually be said to be "second in strength only to Superman" or "Almost as strong as Superman."

[BatWolverine]

If all of these cats are of equal strength, but still weaker than Superman, they can each individually be said to be "second in strength only to Superman" or "Almost as strong as Superman."
Supes admits that even he wets his tights when it comes to going up against the Martian Manhunter. :D

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h133/bw306/misc/jla086_18.jpg

PS: I've posted this pic once before.

[Regulator]

Supes admits that even he wets his tights when it comes to going up against the Martian Manhunter. :D

That's not just because of strength, but also because of his mental abilities.

[deeunlm1t3d]

I thought he was 12?

isn't he 17?

[Steward Ace]

Black Adam, Cap'n Marvel, CM jr., and Mary Marvel all share the same power, right? If three of them are using it simultaneously, then each gets 1/3 of it?

Since BA is almost always using his abilities, I'd say that Captain Marvel is almost always operating at 1/2 power. If that's true, then with an undiluted jolt, I'd guess both Captain Marvel and BA would be stronger, etc. than Superman.

Could BA take WW? Doubtful. She's the greatest Amazon warrior, constantly training under adverse conditions. She has no problems fighting a superior opponent and her willpower could probably beat a Green Lantern. They'd have a good tussle, but WW would come out on top eventually, by hook or by crook.

Always remember this: "Black Adam does not SCATTER!" Why move when you can just be pulverized.

[Habitual]

DC has made several statments in recent years that Wonder Woman in second in strength only to Superman so therefore I would say that Black Adam is third in line right next to Captain Marvel.

It all depends on who's writing the story and in what context. According to Ross Captain Marvel is as fast as the Flash.

Hab

[MikeShaynePI]

It all depends on who's writing the story and in what context. According to Ross Captain Marvel is as fast as the Flash.

Hab
Well when Captain Marvel tripped Flash in JUSTICE, I don't think Flash would have been running at top speed anymore given the amount of energy he burned.

[Habitual]

Well when Captain Marvel tripped Flash in JUSTICE, I don't think Flash would have been running at top speed anymore given the amount of energy he burned.

If you read the text it pretty much states it explicitly. It's also a classic Ross FU to DC editorial for some lines that Winnick included in the recent Cap/Superman mini.

Hab

[BanMan]

Black Adam, Cap'n Marvel, CM jr., and Mary Marvel all share the same power, right? If three of them are using it simultaneously, then each gets 1/3 of it?

Since BA is almost always using his abilities, I'd say that Captain Marvel is almost always operating at 1/2 power. If that's true, then with an undiluted jolt, I'd guess both Captain Marvel and BA would be stronger, etc. than Superman.

Could BA take WW? Doubtful. She's the greatest Amazon warrior, constantly training under adverse conditions. She has no problems fighting a superior opponent and her willpower could probably beat a Green Lantern. They'd have a good tussle, but WW would come out on top eventually, by hook or by crook.

Always remember this: "Black Adam does not SCATTER!" Why move when you can just be pulverized.

Big mistake there. BA and the other Marvels have different power sources. So BA is always at full power (his power comes from another host of gods than Cap's gods/demigods/heroes/kings).

The biggest advantage that WW has on Adam is that Adam has a temper, but he most definitely wouldn't hold back. Where he's lacking in abilities like heat vision, freeze breath like Superman, he makes up for in pure ruthlessness.

[Note: Everytime I read the Wikipedia articles about the Marvel family I keep finding out that DC's kept finding ways to cheat the Marvel fam of abilities they had. Maybe the abilities fell off before DC got their hands on the characters, but I wouldn't be suprised if it didn't happen till afterwards. I mean I never even knew that Mary Marvel originally had her own deities for a power source. I wish DC would be a little clearer on the abilities of their characters.]

[Kenro]

Supes admits that even he wets his tights when it comes to going up against the Martian Manhunter. :D

http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h133/bw306/misc/jla086_18.jpg

PS: I've posted this pic once before.

Nice image. I'm always in mood for some Martian respect.

[ArkhamAsylum]

so do we have a consensus that Adam is atleast as strong as Superman and would most definitely give Wonder Woman a run for her money, if not just outright defeat her ?

When Diana fought Superman in Sacrifice, she lucked out a little in that Superman is vulnerable to magic and had his throat slashed by her tiara. Other than a few moments where she got some offense in, she was pretty much knocked around all over the place and even blacked out for a few seconds after one powerful blow.
The magic vulnerability doesnt apply to Adam. I dont know of any specific weaknesses he might have (Im sure he has some), but nothing that Diana could definitively use against him.

Adam would probably fight her on the same level but be much dirtier and merciless.
It would be an awesome fight based on their power levels, their attitude about backing down from their convictions and just outright pride. Neither would be willing to give in to the other.


I definitely put this in the favour of Black Adam.

[BatWolverine]

Nice image. I'm always in mood for some Martian respect.
You said right. :D

[Strict31]

That's not just because of strength, but also because of his mental abilities.

Most definitely. J'Onn whupped Despero, who went through even Guy Garndner like sh-t through a goose, with this mental powers. That's something to be respected, no matter who's fighting him.

Most people, when they think of J'Onn's mental powers, don't realize that he's always holding them in check. Since Superman has no capacity whatsoever to resist mental attacks, his respect of J'onn's abilities makes complete sense, even if he's not considering the dude's strength levels.

[Tombosephus]

I think no matter where Wonder Woman's power level lies amidst Superman, Captain Marvel, Black Adam, or Martian Manhunter that she would come out the victor in a heads up fight. She's always seemed more martially superior ever since the first crisis. Superman is the only one I think that could take her, and even then it's just because he's Superman. And she'd get to win in her own book anyways. :);)

Plus, I know I've seen Wonder Woman borrow the powers of other gods before, she's the real wild card out of all these guys and probably the only real immortal. At least I think she's supposed to be immortal. :confused:

[wingnut69]

Adam was banished for a few thousand years by Shazam as I recall so he may be nigh on immortal.

[MikeShaynePI]

Adam was banished for a few thousand years by Shazam as I recall so he may be nigh on immortal.
I thought his current body was a reincarnation of his past self.

[bbmuteman]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/bbmuteman/Goody/deadpsychopirate.png

That's pretty hardcore.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/bbmuteman/Goody/MaxwellLorddead.png

So is that. It's a good fight in any case.

[flutegirlrockz]

Well in What Ever Happened To The Man of Tomorro Wonder Woman fights Mongol and hurts her fist when punching him but that's Pre-Crisis so I don't know if that counts but when she fought Doomsday she was easily outclassed and since Superman put up a much better fight I would say she's a fair bit weaker then Superman whereas Cap and Adam are probably Supermans equal. (Edit) Actually What Ever Happened To The Man of Tomorro is Post-Crisis because Supergirl's death is mentioned, it's just pre Byrne so it's still valid, so since she hurt her hand and Mongol didn't feel anything I guess that means she's a fair bit weaker then Superman.

[Power Guy]

It all depends on who's writing the story and in what context. According to Ross Captain Marvel is as fast as the Flash.

Hab




The difference is that the statement that I referred to earlier was made on the Wonder Woman and Superman of the regular DC universe while Ross' Captain Marvel is from an Elseworlds' universe in "Justice".

[achilles140]

Here, based on what DC has said many times, and what it has shown, and what we can possibly infer, is how I see it:

Tied for the top spot in strength:

Superman
Captain Marvel
Martian Manhunter
Black Adam

All of these other characters have often been said to be "equal to Superman in strength"

Wonder Woman

Said to be "second only to Superman" in power--presumably meaning strength. Yet she's obviously NOT second ONLY to Superman, based on what DC itself has said and shown about those others.

Supergirl
Power Girl

These are a bit hard, since its still impossible to truly say how each relates to Superman in the power and strength category. While Superman SAID that he could take Supergirl at the tend of that arc in SG, we don't KNOW that he could, or even if he could, what he meant by that. HE could simply have meant that he was a much better fighter, which does seem reasonable. He COULD also have been wrong in his assesement. It was based on Batman's theory, and wasn't really put to the test. Remember, being able to beat someone in the DCU doesn't always mean being more powerful. I would think that no one would argue that Diana would stand a good chance against ANY of these people, yet she's obviously NOT more powerful than some of them.

We also don't really know the relationship between Supergirl and Power Girl in terms of sheer power and strength. We have good reasons to suspect they are about equal. Kal-L and Kal-El were shown to be equal in the last views we had of them. The same could logically be supected of the to Karas. Also, we have two other bits of evidence. The first, that they seemed to be about equal when inside of Kandor--before Supergirl's presumed power-up with the sunlamps. The second is that Supergirl was obviously stronger just after they left Kandor-----BUT with the big provisio that she was talked about it being her lucky day that Power Girl hadn't recovered yet from the trip to Kandor; strongly implying that in her mind at least, she was unsure if she could hold Peege if she HAD recovered.

The thing in SG #1, where Peege's powers got stronger after they touched, and she was actually stronger than SG in SG's own words seems to be an anomoly, since it hasn't repeated, BUT---DD has hinted that it WAS important, and will be dealt with at a later time.

My own theory: Peege IS possibly stronger than SG, simply because she appears to be a much bigger person. Since the relationship between the two Supermen appeared to be that of equal power; and THEY were of equal size----it is possible that the bigger and more muscular Power Girl is stronger than SG. The touching thing in SG #1 might simply have been Power Girl's true power levels asserting themselves for the first time in the flux during IC.

Whatever the case with that, the three Kryptonians complicate matters; being the ONLY members of the top strength and power set who can easily and quickly get much MORE powerful, simply by taking a sun-dip. Which also appears BTW to apply to Power Girl by reference to a couple of things in IC and after. One was Kal-El's narration in the Peege mini, where he talks of the SUN welcoming him back; strongly implying that it is his power source ala MOS; just as it was Kal-El's. Another is Power Girl's comment during an issue of Superman or Action during IC that she was grateful to Kal-L for teaching her the "sun thing", a clear reference to sun-dipping, as she wouldn't need to be grateful to him for simply telling her that her powers were based on absorbing solar energy, as they would already have automatically been doing that. Yet another clear implication to that effect is that the stay in Kandor had the same effect on BOTH SG and PG, until SG got the sun bath, and PG didn't.

Captain Marvel can also obviously power up beyond his ordinary limits by being fed magic; as in the DOV fight against the Spectre, but that depended on his being fed magic by OTHERS. Also, we don't know yet if those same rules apply in the new age of magic, though it is strongly implied in the latest 52 that they don't; that there is a cost to doing magic.

Diana has also been depicted getting power-ups in her strength; by means of the GOA. It is not certain however, if she retains them, or even if they still work, what with the retreat of the gods, (taking their powers with them, thought that begs the question of WHY exactly Diana is still powered, while WG wouldn't have been without Ares gift), and with the changing in the overall rules of magic. Regardless, like Marvel, she doesn't seem to be able to power-up easily, at least now.

J'ohn alone doesn't seem to have any means to power up beyond his normal levels; though that perhaps might change. Perhaps it is a balance to the fact that he possesses the greatest number of formidable powers of any of them.

So in recap:

Superman
Captain Marvel
Black Adam
Martian Manhunter

Are all equal in strength, and possibly overall power.

Possibly

Supergirl
Power Girl

Are either equal to the above group, MORE powerful than the above group, or slightly LESS powerful than the above group.

Diana

There are of course others, Orion, Lobo, Captain Atom, WG, and Donna; but they all seem to be of a somewhat lesser power level, or at least a lesser STRENGTH level.

[BanMan]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/bbmuteman/Goody/deadpsychopirate.png

That's pretty hardcore.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v605/bbmuteman/Goody/MaxwellLorddead.png

So is that. It's a good fight in any case.

No way is snapping a man's neck as hardcore as jabbing a guy so hard in the eyes that you push his face through the back of his head. :p

[Habitual]

The difference is that the statement that I referred to earlier was made on the Wonder Woman and Superman of the regular DC universe while Ross' Captain Marvel is from an Elseworlds' universe in "Justice".

Like I said earlier, it all depends on who's writing the story and in what context. I'd hardly say Justice is an Elseworlds tale at this point.

Hab

[AngryAmerican66]

Like I said earlier, it all depends on who's writing the story and in what context. I'd hardly say Justice is an Elseworlds tale at this point.

Hab
Justice is listed as an Elseworlds by everyone that matters at DC. Ross' opinion means squat because he is not Dildo. While Justice is a good read, only Ross would be so full of himself as to think his Superfriends type stories are anything other than Elseworlds/All-Star material.

[CYOTI]

Most definitely. J'Onn whupped Despero, who went through even Guy Garndner like sh-t through a goose, with this mental powers. Guess you missed Crisis of Conscience where Despero went through Martian Manhunter and Aquaman and took control of them and half the JLA.

[Habitual]

Justice is listed as an Elseworlds by everyone that matters at DC. Ross' opinion means squat because he is not Dildo. While Justice is a good read, only Ross would be so full of himself as to think his Superfriends type stories are anything other than Elseworlds/All-Star material.

There are a number of people on this site, myself included, that wold disagree just for the mere fact that so far it's one of the best JLA stories that's been done in years. Also it's not really relevant to the point I was making.

Hab

[Strict31]

Guess you missed Crisis of Conscience where Despero went through Martian Manhunter and Aquaman and took control of them and half the JLA.

On purpose, yeah.

But how does that change the fact that J'onn defeated Despero not with the strength of his muscles, but with martian mind powers?

[Destroyer]

Diana shits all over black adam easily !!

diana cuts peoples heads off for a living. to down play her is just plain stupid. shes an amazon warrior . she knos every fighting style ever. she fast strong and smart courtesy of the gods. that alone puts her on the top of the list. the wisdom of a ggod with the speed and strength. how can she possibly lose to black adam? and when u get right down tto it imsure diana against adam would be a happy moment ffor diana cause then she could cut lose and really show what shes made of. . shed beat black adams ass for points and example.

[Strict31]

Diana shits all over black adam easily !!

diana cuts peoples heads off for a living. to down play her is just plain stupid. shes an amazon warrior . she knos every fighting style ever. she fast strong and smart courtesy of the gods. that alone puts her on the top of the list. the wisdom of a ggod with the speed and strength. how can she possibly lose to black adam? and when u get right down tto it imsure diana against adam would be a happy moment ffor diana cause then she could cut lose and really show what shes made of. . shed beat black adams ass for points and example.

But...Diana tempers her warrior skills with mercy and understanding. I dunno, she cuts off people's heads for a living?

At any rate, the things you mention above also apply to Black Adam. He has the wisdom, strength, speed, etc of gods. He's an ancient warrior who was chosen to be the champion of Egypt. You don't get to that point by whistling dixie. Or...whatever they whistled before there was a dixie...This cat is an elite warrior who routinely fought in wars and killed people with weapons and later, with his bare hands.

And he tempers his warrior skills with unadulterated anger. His justice is savage and swift, and has been enacted hundreds of times without doubt, without trepidation and without hesitation.

I don't know if his fighting skills are any greater than Diana's or that his savagery is greater than her cunning and intellect, but he's not gonna be any sort of walk in the park for the princess.

[CYOTI]

On purpose, yeah.

But how does that change the fact that J'onn defeated Despero not with the strength of his muscles, but with martian mind powers? His and Aquaman's combined telepathy couldn't even defeat him in his most recent appearance and in the end both ended up getting mind controlled by Despero. .

[Strict31]

His and Aquaman's combined telepathy couldn't even defeat him in his most recent appearance and in the end both ended up getting mind controlled by Despero. .

But did he or did he not defeat Despero with his martian mental abilities the last time they fought? Is it just that you didn't read that issue of JLI? Or that you don't care that it occured?

Ah whatever. The point is, in a battle where strength of arms was insufficient, J'Onn relied on his mental abilities. We all know J'Onn is a powerful telepath and Superman bloody-well knows it too. Thus comes the logic that even if J'Onn is not Superman's equal in might, he still can bring his mental powers to bear. Since Superman has no innate defenses against mental powers, he'd be in a bad place.

[PrimalSlayer]

Diana has also been depicted getting power-ups in her strength; by means of the GOA. It is not certain however, if she retains them, or even if they still work, what with the retreat of the gods, (taking their powers with them, thought that begs the question of WHY exactly Diana is still powered, while WG wouldn't have been without Ares gift), and with the changing in the overall rules of magic. Regardless, like Marvel, she doesn't seem to be able to power-up easily, at least now.


Well I have always thought that since Diana was basically brought to life by the gods, her powers are litteraly apart of her. Gods magic gave her life, and while they were giving her life, they imbued her with her powers.

And Cassie is technically a demi god, so she should have some powers of her own...

[achilles140]

Well I have always thought that since Diana was basically brought to life by the gods, her powers are litteraly apart of her. Gods magic gave her life, and while they were giving her life, they imbued her with her powers.

And Cassie is technically a demi god, so she should have some powers of her own...

My point exactly about the difference in how they wrote Cassie and Diana. If one retains her powers on her own, they both should, logically.

[PrimalSlayer]

My point exactly about the difference in how they wrote Cassie and Diana. If one retains her powers on her own, they both should, logically.

Except that the writers made Cassie without powers of her own when they created her, and never really bothered to explain why she didnt have powers of her own from birth. So Zeus ended up granting her some powers and when he left, he decided to strip her of those powers that he had bestowed upon her.

[achilles140]

Bit of a cop out on the part of the writers if you ask me. They changed the game plan and didn't bother to think it through..........

[T-Rex]

Im really starting to like DC more and more and ive been adding many of their titles to my pull list as of late. The problem i have with DC is why are there so many characters with Superman level powers. Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, Black Adam, Martian Manhunter, to just name a few.
Anyway I love Black Adam he's becoming one of my favorite characters in comics. I go with him kicking the crap outta WW.

[PrimalSlayer]

Im really starting to like DC more and more and ive been adding many of their titles to my pull list as of late. The problem i have with DC is why are there so many characters with Superman level powers. Captain Marvel, Wonder Woman, Black Adam, Martian Manhunter, to just name a few.
Anyway I love Black Adam he's becoming one of my favorite characters in comics. I go with him kicking the crap outta WW.

Well it would be stupid if they just said "No one can be as strong as Superman, or near his power level, he is god" that would just be unbelievable.

All of these charecters are close to Supermans level for different reasons. He should be able to get beat down by other charecters if done the right way. He shouldnt be able to trample over anyone(except if they were a mere mortal) just because he chooses to do so. Its boring when he doesnt have to put up an honest fight.