QUIVER NAMED ONE OF TOP BOOKS FOR YOUNG ADULTS [Archive]

MattBrady

02-06-2003, 07:28 AM

<img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/DC/quiver.jpg" width="175" height="275" border="0" hspace="2" align="right"> According to DC, the American Library Association has named the hardcover collection of Green Arrow: Quiver, which reintroduced the character to the land of the living as one of the Best Books for Young Adults 2003. According to the ALA, Quiver met the criteria of having “both good literary quality and popular reading appeal for teens, ages 12-18.

Quiver collects issues #1-#10 of Green Arrow written by Kevin Smith, with art by Phil Hester and Ande Park, with painted covers by Matt Wagner.

Upon hearing the news of the award, Smith told Newsarama: “I'm flattered. I know Phil's flattered too, and I can only imagine Ande is as well. Wagner, as always, had us covered. As Phil told me via email, this beats winning a Harvey. I'll go one better and say it beats winning an Eisner. I mean, it's one thing to get an award from people within comics, but it's phenomenal to have non-industry folks recognize the book quotient of our comic book, as the ALA has done. Although, with all the devil worship, child endangerment, prostitution, violence and innuendo in "Quiver", it's kinda funny that they named us one of the best books for Young Adults. Perhaps they meant one of the best books for Adult Film Actors.

”However, if the ALA knew how late I was on Target and The Evil That Men Do, they'd not only take "Quiver" off their list, they'd rip up my library card.”

Gary Ware

02-06-2003, 07:49 AM

Yeah, I thought that given the content of Quiver that it was interesting for it to be given an award for that age group.
Although given the spread of maturity levels between twelve and eighteen years of age finding material that is considered appropriate for them all must be a challenging task.
It's interesting that one of the more popular mature stories of the year is still considered appropriate for a youth award. It's hard to break the stereotype of comics for kids.
(I don't know how many kids could afford the hardback. I suppose that generous fans and comic shops could try to place copy in their local libraries now that it has won a literary prize)

Jeffbot

02-06-2003, 08:32 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MattBrady:
Although, with all the devil worship, child endangerment, prostitution, violence and innuendo in "Quiver", it's kinda funny that they named us one of the best books for Young Adults. Perhaps they meant one of the best books for Adult Film Actors.

”However, if the ALA knew how late I was on Target and The Evil That Men Do, they'd not only take "Quiver" off their list, they'd rip up my library card.”<hr /></blockquote>Heh. Funny AND true.

Todd VerBeek

02-06-2003, 08:56 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Gary Ware:
It's interesting that one of the more popular mature stories of the year is still considered appropriate for a youth award. It's hard to break the stereotype of comics for kids.<hr /></blockquote>It's also hard to break the stereotype that "kids" (especially the age group we're talking about here) can't handle anything more mature than Peanuts or Archie. I haven't read this particular material (been waiting for the paperback) but there's rarely anything in DC's superhero books that's really too "adult" for teens, and I doubt even a "bad boy" like Smith stretched their standards all that much. Keep in mind that (unless things have changed in the past 20 years) these are people whose peers are already involved in drinking, driving and drinking, using illegal drugs, serious sexual experimentation, and more. Stories involving prositution, fist fights, and the popular fiction of devil worship aren't exactly going to shatter their innocent view of the world. Unless maybe Smith was saying that Ollie was promoting all these activities. :)

<blockquote>quote:<hr />(I don't know how many kids could afford the hardback. I suppose that generous fans and comic shops could try to place copy in their local libraries now that it has won a literary prize)<hr /></blockquote>Well, the folks talking about it are librarians not booksellers, so there's no reason the book's affordability to teenagers would be a factor to them. The likely outcome of this is that more libraries will spend their own money on it.

Warren V. Wind

02-06-2003, 09:35 AM

excellent...it just goes to show you that quality never hurts and always should be acknowledged...even outside of the comics field!!!

Hdefined

02-06-2003, 09:35 AM

Boo lateness! Boo Kevin Smith! I'm surprised he was available for comment. Damn it Smith, this interview was 5 minutes you could have been spending finishing up scripts!

manosx

02-06-2003, 09:37 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Todd VerBeek:
[QUOTE]<hr /></blockquote>It's also hard to break the stereotype that "kids" (especially the age group we're talking about here) can't handle anything more mature than Peanuts or Archie. I haven't read this particular material (been waiting for the paperback) but there's rarely anything in DC's superhero books that's really too "adult" for teens, and I doubt even a "bad boy" like Smith stretched their standards all that much. [QUOTE][qb]

Ollie gave Dinah oral sex. In the kitchen. And made references to "being wet".

Burke 0011

02-06-2003, 09:43 AM

quote:
Ollie gave Dinah oral sex. In the kitchen. And made references to "being wet".

Well sadly, obvious references to things such as this are made all the time on shows like Dawsons Creek, Buffy, Friends.... jesus, flipping by MTV in the evening is like finding a 'how to have sex when you're a teen' after school special.

It maybe be different than when people who are a bit older like myself were growing up but today,
it's the 'normal' thing.....

OCM

02-06-2003, 09:52 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by manosx:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Todd VerBeek:
[qb][QUOTE]<hr /></blockquote>It's also hard to break the stereotype that "kids" (especially the age group we're talking about here) can't handle anything more mature than Peanuts or Archie. I haven't read this particular material (been waiting for the paperback) but there's rarely anything in DC's superhero books that's really too "adult" for teens, and I doubt even a "bad boy" like Smith stretched their standards all that much. <blockquote>quote:<hr />

Ollie gave Dinah oral sex. In the kitchen. And made references to "being wet".<hr /></blockquote>Puhleeeeeeeeze!!!! I'd much rather see a kid read that than to get hold of a game like Grand Theft Auto : Vice City. And believe me a lot of kids end up owning games like that!

Which makes me wonder if any of you idiots who keep asking if kids can afford a $25 (that is what Quiver cost right?) HC (or even the laughable ones who wonder if they can spring for a $3 one!) even associate with kids once in a great while?

Believe me even little 6 year old Johnny can get Mommy to spring for a $50 videogame.

Anyway, congrats are in order I suppose...

tralfaz

02-06-2003, 09:55 AM

Did Starman ever get these kind of accolades? The Starman stories were and is far superior to Quiver (not that I dont like Quiver, I liked it a lot)

Allan McPherson

02-06-2003, 10:36 AM

Just to add little note about the issue of Quiver's content being aimed at the "young adult" audience.

The ALA really doesn't give out these awards on the basis of what they have deemed to be "good for" YAs. If there is any organization that can accept a piece of story art as having a value in and of itself, its the ALA.

I think this award goes to the fact that the ALA recognizes that Quiver not only will appeal to readers in the 12+ area but would probably challenge them and, hopefully, get them reading things that they might have overlooked. And if that happens to be comics, well that's just plain good news.

And if anybody really thinks Quiver is too racey to be YA material, man, spend some time in the Youth services area section of you public Library! If you think Comics are under appreciated...

Nick Borelli

02-06-2003, 10:50 AM

Quiver is one of the few DC books that could keep the attention of the 12-18 year old, on that alone it deserves to get something.

I like how Smith always is the first to point out his own faults so as to take the wind out of people's sails. Him bringing up his lateness is similar to how he always brings up that he has no visual style in his movies (other then placing the camera down and walking away to get a sandwhich while great actors he pays peanuts to read his dialog).
Black Cat makes sense for 2002, however.
It was the year of over hyped late mini-series.
DK2, Origin, and Black Cat were all very very late and very very dull, yet they got more hype then any projects I can think of in the last few years. Smith is only a part timer so I suppose that's a good excuse. I don't think the others really have one though. There is no lesson to be learned from all of this because it's KEVIN SMITH, how could anyone turn down him writing ANYTHING for your company? It will sell, when/if it appears on the shelf. I couldn't care less how Black Cat ends, I just wished I had the last issue so my eBay lot would sell for more. As for Target, I want to read it, but I'll wait till around Daredevil 2's premire so I can get the Trade.

>Yes, I know I sounds like every fanboy on the Internet with a loud "mouth".
>Yes, I own every View Askew movie, Smith written book, and tons of the <a href="http://www.viewaskew.com" target="_blank">www.viewaskew.com</a> merch.
>Yes, that makes me weak.

steveupson

02-06-2003, 11:12 AM

Congratulations Kevin, et al.

You all did good work, and it's good to be recognized from outside of the industry like you say.

Velvet Glove

02-06-2003, 01:12 PM

You know, I have to wonder if ALA even READ "Quiver." I liked it quite a lot, but I wouldn't exactly call it suitable for kids as young as 12. But hell, what do I know?

Taylor Porter

02-06-2003, 01:45 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Burke 0011:
quote:
Ollie gave Dinah oral sex. In the kitchen. And made references to "being wet".

Well sadly, obvious references to things such as this are made all the time.... <hr /></blockquote>Sadly?

What's so sad about two adults in love having sex?

toolverine

02-06-2003, 02:40 PM

Let's get real here. I knew about things like drug use and sex when I was 12 (In 1995). The themes presented in GA are probably not anything new to todays young adults and I can say that they would not have shocked me then or even now, for that matter.

dogisred

02-06-2003, 03:03 PM

The whole "what is safe for teens" argument has been going on for years, and while we stand around and argue the issue the teen violence epidemic has escalated, teen drug use is through the roof, and teen pregnancy is at an all time high. Teens' favorite TV shows all deal with sex on a regular basis (even the reality TV shows on now), and drug use as a taboo subject is long out of date. In my job I see teens from 13-19 year olds every day...I talk with them, and believe me when I tell you that nothing in Quiver will even shock them. The only people that will be shocked are the parents of the children that don't realize what "wet" refers to.

DrDoom

02-06-2003, 07:27 PM

It stills annoys me that such stuff is in there...
or how does the Comics Code Authority review such books?
You know that big lable on the comics books that seem to disappear from Marvel some years ago and created in the 50's as result of some furious pûblishers of some comics for a shrink's work "Seduction of the innocent" who made a organisation about it (CCA see above) and hence labled the comics: "all acts commited by people before or with people which children may see or read that are mature acts (see the kitchentable) must be go to that board)
this remark was given for people who are unknown to the subject (Europeans as such like me but i did a study for myself on the subject and have a lot of comics at home) and for people who don't know what it is...

Some children aren't mature enough between 12 and 18 age but some do; I saw tonight a documentary on games for children between 12 and 18 that are not judged to be playable for such age but they do play them ; Children buy games and buy comics, parents don't buy them...where do you draw the line? The same is with comics: we have a board then not then there is it again then not then again.What gives if it is there and not there when it must be there...
(Games : there is no board here in Europe , they just lable the games with tags: 11+,16+ and so on)

MattBrady

02-06-2003, 07:38 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DrDoom:
or how does the Comics Code Authority review such books?<hr /></blockquote>Green Arrow was never intended to be submitted to the CCA, and hasn't been since the new series started.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by DrDoom:
Some children aren't mature enough between 12 and 18 age but some do...where do you draw the line? <hr /></blockquote>With the parents, presumably, rather than with some outside agency who feels it knows what is best for all children. The responsibility to raise their children, and select appropriate entertainment for them, as well as monitor what they are exposed to has always been the role of the parents.

But even with that, Green Arrow has always been a non-Code book. See the battle with Grundy for a clearer reason than innuendo.

MattB

DrDoom

02-06-2003, 07:49 PM

I have been away 6 years from comics(since the Operation: Zero Tolerance in major x-books) and i didn't know that(New comic book series of Green arrow) was happening and also that it was a non code book .Considering Marvel i didn't know it either, but knowing it now i suspected it wel because the increase of violence and use of words in some comics...
I only read Superman for a while and then i stopped because of the price went up

(excuse me of my wording or lettering - not native tongue)

dogisred

02-06-2003, 09:34 PM

With all this talk about what is appropriate for children and what isn't...that is for the parents to decide what their children read, what video games they play, what movies they watch, what music they listen to. As a parent of three, I am constantly checking on what they are into. I go with them where they want to go to decide if I think it is appropriate. I don't make prejudicial decisions...I go into everything with an open mind. I see it as my job to "allow" them to grow up slowly. My oldest wants to watch PG-13 movies...I don't let her...I keep telling her she needs to wait until she's thirteen. I wouldn't let her read Quiver, either. Whatever the topic...parents need to take an active role in what their children are doing...that's the bottom line.

Gary Ware

02-07-2003, 02:45 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Which makes me wonder if any of you idiots who keep asking if kids can afford a $25 (that is what Quiver cost right?) HC (or even the laughable ones who wonder if they can spring for a $3 one!) even associate with kids once in a great while?

Believe me even little 6 year old Johnny can get Mommy to spring for a $50 videogame. <hr /></blockquote>Sorry, I wasn't trying to sound like an idiot.
I have five children and work regularly with many others. Not everyone's mother can afford that sort of money. $50 comics (cause that what it costs over here) are not widely available or purchased. And every parent knows that a video game provides more longer term peace and quiet (whoops, sorry, I meant entertainment and mental stimulation) than a long comic book.

That's why I liked the origin of this particular award. Most everyone can get a library card. I just wondered if those who awarded it really appreciated what the majority of fandom thought was its target audience.

Tokyo Drifter

02-07-2003, 02:51 AM

Marvel should run a contest.

"Who wants to finish The Target & Spidey Black Cat?"

The best script submitted wins and gets published. Marvel gets a new (and probably more responsible) writer out of the deal.

Kevin Smith goes back to milking the two good movies he made for merchandise cash. Everyone's a winner.

DrDoom

02-07-2003, 05:21 AM

"Watch out before thou speakest" would Thor say

Remember the dead of Odin...Boeh...people were angried by it when i read the epologue in the TPB of 'Dead of Odin' by Marvel because they killed off a major character ;

I buy both of them: both videogames and comics but am older then the average teenager (say double); It is better to buy tradepaperbacks then buy comics monthly because tradepaperbacks or hardbacks have some additional comics added in them or scenarios or drafts of characters (see recently comics: the Unlimited X-men HC and the X-men HC vol I)and it is cheaper because prices will still rise...

Marvel Zombie

02-07-2003, 02:54 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> The whole "what is safe for teens" argument has been going on for years, and while we stand around and argue the issue the teen violence epidemic has escalated, teen drug use is through the roof, and teen pregnancy is at an all time high. <hr /></blockquote>Statiistics on teen pregnancy (http://www.siecus.org/pubs/fact/fact0010.html )

Statistics on teen drug use. (http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2002-12-16-teens-drugs_x.htm )

I just wanted to throw in my two cents on the whle thing since his statement seemed a lil off to me even though knowing this board, I'm going to have some counter evidence. :)

DrDoom

02-07-2003, 06:09 PM

thx for bringing me back to reality :)

Cyberleader

02-08-2003, 12:03 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The whole "what is safe for teens" argument has been going on for years, and while we stand around and argue the issue the teen violence epidemic has escalated, teen drug use is through the roof, and teen pregnancy is at an all time high. <hr /></blockquote>Teen violence in North America has gone downin the last twenty years. The only reason it's as big an issue as it is, is because of the terrible violence of the school shooting type scenarios that have cropped up lately. It's akin to the 'rash' of crime in the American mid-west during the prohibition era. There were actually relatively few major crimes commited at the time, but because of the fame associated with the criminals ("Babyface" Nelson, Bonnie & Clyde, etc.) the problem was, and still is, perceived as much larger and widespread than it actually was.

02-08-2003, 12:13 AM

deleted

dogisred

02-08-2003, 04:11 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Cyberleader:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr /> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The whole "what is safe for teens" argument has been going on for years, and while we stand around and argue the issue the teen violence epidemic has escalated, teen drug use is through the roof, and teen pregnancy is at an all time high. <hr /></blockquote>Teen violence in North America has gone downin the last twenty years. The only reason it's as big an issue as it is, is because of the terrible violence of the school shooting type scenarios that have cropped up lately. It's akin to the 'rash' of crime in the American mid-west during the prohibition era. There were actually relatively few major crimes commited at the time, but because of the fame associated with the criminals ("Babyface" Nelson, Bonnie & Clyde, etc.) the problem was, and still is, perceived as much larger and widespread than it actually was.<hr /></blockquote>Maybe I should have clarified...teens involved in violent crimes have gone up...and any high school teacher can tell you that the voilence in American high schools is higher than it was ten years ago.

MIKEON-LINE

02-09-2003, 03:18 AM

As a guy who turned 20 in November, I've gotta say that if books like GA: Quiver were available - and recommended *and* available in libraries - when [I was 12, I probably wouldn't have appreciated such a privilege as much as I do *now* in retrospect. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

(The fact that the most 'popular' form of YA reading material back in my day were those abysmaly drecky teen-horror schlock-fests (Fear Street et al) sweetens the deal.)

Elayne Riggs

02-09-2003, 05:46 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Taylor Porter:
Well sadly, obvious references to things such as this are made all the time....
Sadly?
What's so sad about two adults in love having sex?<hr /></blockquote>In front of the kids?

- Elayne (or "young adults" as it may be)

Mike Pawuk

02-12-2003, 11:52 AM

Matt, thanks for reporting on this. However, YALSA has supported graphic novels for many years now and it shouldn't be a big surprise that graphic novels are being recognized. YALSA did in June 2002 an all-day conference on graphic novels that featured Art Spiegelman, Neil Gaiman, Jeff Smith, and Colleen Doran. Plus, it was done with the support of many publishers including DC Comics, Dark Horse, Image, Viz, TokyoPop, Active Synapse, D&Q and many more. Also, if you go to YALSA's site (http://www.ala.org/yalsa/booklists/index.html) if you click on the different committees, you'll see that graphic novels have been there for awhile, including the Popular Paperbacks for Young Adults committee's Graphic Novel list located here: <a href="http://www.ala.org/yalsa/booklists/poppaper/poppaper02.html#graphicnovels." target="_blank">http://www.ala.org/yalsa/booklists/poppaper/poppaper02.html#graphicnovels.</a> The Best Books committee is just one of many YALSA lists - all equally of importance - and many great titles are on the other lists.

While I personally feel that other GNs deserved to be on the "Best Books" list other than "Quiver," it should also be remembered that that committee usually focuses on titles that have appeal to older teens and adults - not necessarily something appropriate for a 13-year-old.