DRUDGE ADDS DETAILS ON MARVEL v. SONY [Archive]

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MattBrady

04-17-2003, 07:03 AM

<img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/Marvel/Spidey_toy.jpg" width="200" height="223" border="0" hspace="2" align="right">While several leaked details of the story have been percolating throughout the industry for weeks, gossip maven Matt Drudge has now got his hooks into Marvel vs. Sony, publishing a <a href="http://www.drudgereport.com/marvel.htm" target="_blank"> report</a> that essentially recapped what was previously known, and added a few more details, apparently from an inside source on the Marvel side of things.

According to Drudge’s report (which alleges to contain details of the sealed court documents), Marvel is seeking to completely revoke Sony’s license to Spider-Man, and accuses Sony of “literally kidnapping Spidey.”

As was reported in the Variety write-up, the problem stems from the merchandise rights related to the film and how Sony uses Spider-Man in its own promotions. “In sealed papers, Marvel says Sony should not continue advertising Spider-Man as a Sony character and marketing him as such through a constellation of Sony consumer products,” Drudge reported. “Marvel is accusing Sony of doing everything it can to disassociate Spider-Man and Marvel in the minds of retailers.”

Drudge also reported that Marvel feels Sony has wrongfully withheld several millions of dollars it is owed.

Drudge’s report appears to be a counter to the original <a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=00048 7" target="_blank"> Variety</a> article, which, if anything, came from a Sony point of view, and cast the studio as the injured party. The trade's account stated that last fall, Sony became concerned that Marvel was using inappropriate accounting methods to lessen Sony of its share of payments from Marvel’s exploitation of Spider-Man. According to the trade, “Sony then withheld $1.5 million from a participation payment made to Marvel and announced it would begin an audit in January.”

The money allegedly owed to Sony by Marvel comes from a joint venture between Marvel and Sony, which was part of the original deal between the two as announced in 1999. As per the agreement, the studio would get merchandising rights, but Marvel would get the lion's share because it will also manufacture any Spider-Man toys through Toy Biz. Sony feels that Marvel has been shortchanging them in their share of payments from this joint venture.

<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/Marvel/slide8.jpg"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/Marvel/slide8_t.jpg" width="250" height="188" border="0" hspace="2" align="left"></a>The Variety report also alleges that the Sony papers claim that Marvel attempted to force an unjustified renegotiation of the license agreement with Spider-Man. Sony also claims that Marvel executives have “repeatedly expressed their unhappiness with the 1999 license agreement, particularly their participation in the film's box office and home entertainment receipts.”

Variety also reported that, despite efforts to resolve the dispute privately, Sony alleges that Marvel filed an “inflammatory complaint” with sensitive and confidential documents attached as exhibits to force Sony to renegotiate. The two documents that Sony wants to keep sealed are the license agreement between Marvel and Sony over the Spider-Man character, and an internal marketing document, which, according to Sony, contains extremely detailed information about revenue projections and licensing rates for the first Spider-Man film. Variety reported that Sony feels that if this information is made public, it will jeopardize the studio’s ability to make licensing agreements on the sequel.

During Marvel CEO Allen Lipson’s report during a recent Banc of America conference call, the Marvel head explained that the company was working to, and had succeeded in, renegotiating some of it’s bigger movie contracts, and named the upcoming Hulk as a success story. Originally negotiated with Universal for a flat licensing fee when the company was in dire financial straits, Marvel’s deal with the studio now is a categorized as a “GP” – second best in the eyes of the company, meaning that Marvel will collect a percentage of the box office gross of the film which opens in June.

All of Marvel’s newer movie deals are Gross Participation of Equity Participation (which the company sees as the best deal it can have with a studio. Standouts are the X-Men and Blade franchises, a Profit Participation and a Bad Deal, respectively.

<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/Marvel/slide9.jpg"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/Marvel/slide9_t.jpg" width="250" height="188" border="0" hspace="2" align="right"></a>While this case will more than likely have a chilling effect on Marvel and Sony’s relationship, the only other franchise that is in development at Sony, according to Marvel, is a Luke Cage project which has yet to be greenlit, and is listed by many as being in development hell.

While being misreported in any number of online venues, the Judge in this case, Alexander Williams III (who referred to it as “the mother of all contract suits”) only tentatively agreed that the complaint should be unsealed, and thus all information about what is in the documents to date, has come from leaks on either side. Williams will hear both sides’ arguments on Monday in Los Angeles Superior Court, after which, he will make his decision.

FireLight

04-17-2003, 09:17 AM

*YAWN*

First thing in the mornin' and I gotta read this?

Anyway, seems like a really 'mother' of a behind-the-scenes battle will ensue as this continues to move along.

I'd say that is seems that Marvel is using hindsight on almost all of the mentioned properties. Back when days were tight, they should have been happy to get what they got.

Now, whoops, biggest box office ever, they want more. GRANTED, it is their property, but granted, they signed a deal.

BUT, Sony seems to be playing a bit of a bully, too. Why, they're just....

AHHH! Who cares? I'll watch the movie, read the comics and go on with my life & business.

Michael Jones

04-17-2003, 10:22 AM

So if I ot this right it works something like this. Marvel thinks Sony owes them money on Spiderman and because of this they sue Sony. Stan Lee has a contract that states Marvel owes him money on Spiderman and all of a sudden Marvel claims that the contract is unfair. Sure both cases are different, but you have to laugh at the similarities.

MattBrady

04-17-2003, 10:43 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Michael Jones:
Stan Lee has a contract that states Marvel owes him money on Spiderman and all of a sudden Marvel claims that the contract is unfair.<hr /></blockquote>When did they claim that? I wasn't aware that Marvel had said anything on the Stan Lee matter.

MattB

Michael Jones

04-17-2003, 10:53 AM

When did they claim that? I wasn't aware that Marvel had said anything on the Stan Lee matter.

MattB

Didn't the contract that Stan has with Marvel say that he gets 10% of whatever Marvel gets from Sony? Or am I just mis remembering parts of the story? Still I had to laugh.

IanZL

04-17-2003, 11:48 AM

If you can't even remember you probably shouldn't be commenting on it Michael.

That being said, this problem appears to look worse then it is. I mean these disputes happen all the time, yeah the deal for Spider-man wasn't great, but if Marvel and Sony put all the energy into the next one that it will hardly matter. The deal was for two movies right? I understand Marvel wanting to get their money quick but really, why couldn't they just wait for renogiation on Spider-man 3 (the Specatcular Spider-man). Spider-man 2 is going to bring them in plenty of coin, as is the Hulk and the other movies. They should have asked themselves if it was worth the bad press of looking greedy.

Hdefined

04-17-2003, 12:00 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Michael Jones:
When did they claim that? I wasn't aware that Marvel had said anything on the Stan Lee matter.

MattB

Didn't the contract that Stan has with Marvel say that he gets 10% of whatever Marvel gets from Sony? Or am I just mis remembering parts of the story? Still I had to laugh.<hr /></blockquote>I believe Stan was entitled to 10% of anything media-related that Marvel got paid for. He was pissed that he saw nothing from the Spider-Man movie.

d. emerson eddy

04-17-2003, 02:54 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by FireLight:
First thing in the mornin' and I gotta read this?<hr /></blockquote>Actually, you don't. I don't think Matt's lording over you with a gun, your eyes stapled open, forcing you to read it, is he?

MattBrady

04-17-2003, 02:57 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by d. emerson eddy:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by FireLight:
First thing in the mornin' and I gotta read this?<hr /></blockquote>Actually, you don't. I don't think Matt's lording over you with a gun, your eyes stapled open, forcing you to read it, is he?<hr /></blockquote>Not with a gun, no.

MattB

arthur pendragon

04-17-2003, 03:50 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MattBrady:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Michael Jones:
Stan Lee has a contract that states Marvel owes him money on Spiderman and all of a sudden Marvel claims that the contract is unfair.<hr /></blockquote>When did they claim that? I wasn't aware that Marvel had said anything on the Stan Lee matter.

MattB<hr /></blockquote>Marvel released a statement which said in part, "Marvel believes it is in full compliance with, and current on all payments due under, the terms of Mr. Lee's employment agreement and will continue to be so in the future."

That's damn nice of them, don't you think? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

brett

04-17-2003, 04:46 PM

What goes around, comes around.

Marvel reneged on their contract with Stan Lee, the creator of Spiderman, the man who MADE Marvel what it is (and without him or Ditko there wouldn't have even BEEN a Spider man movie) and shut him out of payments they were supposed to make, so now Sony to Marvel, what Marvel did to their creators.

Still, one would tend to think that 850 Million dollars would be enough so that everyone could have a taste of the pie and be happy.

This is truly sickening people, especially when American soldiers are reporting from Iraq that the people there are so poor, they live in mud hovels.

While here in America, Sony and Marvel are fighting over money that would be enough to build and feed a few small countries.

Sad.

Real sad.

How do some people wake up and look at themselves in the mirror each day...

QCCBob

04-17-2003, 09:29 PM

I've still got to question the intelligence and the timing of basically announcing to the world that if you have a blockbuster movie based on a Marvel property, they will sue you to get more money and so on. If X-2 and/or Hulk don't do extremely well, as a movie company, would you really want to risk working with these guys who seemingly have little intention of honoring a contract with anyone? It appears the only employees of Marvel Enterprises with job security are the lawyers, well, the ones who actually practice law as opposed to the one with a Harvard degree who couldn't read a simple Terms of Sale contract properly. :p

jawaplumber

04-17-2003, 10:54 PM

I'm surprised Leech Johnston hasn't crawled out of his Gutter to comment on any of this.

OcCaM

04-17-2003, 11:46 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by brett:
What goes around, comes around.

Marvel reneged on their contract with Stan Lee, the creator of Spiderman, the man who MADE Marvel what it is (and without him or Ditko there wouldn't have even BEEN a Spider man movie) and shut him out of payments they were supposed to make, so now Sony to Marvel, what Marvel did to their creators.

Still, one would tend to think that 850 Million dollars would be enough so that everyone could have a taste of the pie and be happy.

This is truly sickening people, especially when American soldiers are reporting from Iraq that the people there are so poor, they live in mud hovels.

While here in America, Sony and Marvel are fighting over money that would be enough to build and feed a few small countries.

Sad.

Real sad.

How do some people wake up and look at themselves in the mirror each day...<hr /></blockquote>Yes how do you? How much of your income gets donated to starving children's causes and other causes? If you can still spend money on comics which aren't needed for life, yet aren't spending that helping others, you're just as hypocritical as the rest of the world.

Get over yourself already!

d. emerson eddy

04-18-2003, 12:21 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MattBrady:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by d. emerson eddy:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by FireLight:
First thing in the mornin' and I gotta read this?<hr /></blockquote>Actually, you don't. I don't think Matt's lording over you with a gun, your eyes stapled open, forcing you to read it, is he?<hr /></blockquote>Not with a gun, no.<hr /></blockquote>Now, what did we tell you about holding people hostage with avocadoes? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

d.

arthur pendragon

04-18-2003, 01:19 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by OcCaM:
Yes how do you? How much of your income gets donated to starving children's causes and other causes? If you can still spend money on comics which aren't needed for life, yet aren't spending that helping others, you're just as hypocritical as the rest of the world.

Get over yourself already!<hr /></blockquote>With great power there must also come great responsibility, or to put it another way, "And the men who hold high places, must be the ones who start, to mold a new reality, closer to the heart", or to put it another way, the fish rots from the head, down. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

ramberk

04-18-2003, 03:37 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by QCCBob:
I've still got to question the intelligence and the timing of basically announcing to the world that if you have a blockbuster movie based on a Marvel property, they will sue you to get more money and so on. If X-2 and/or Hulk don't do extremely well, as a movie company, would you really want to risk working with these guys who seemingly have little intention of honoring a contract with anyone? It appears the only employees of Marvel Enterprises with job security are the lawyers, well, the ones who actually practice law as opposed to the one with a Harvard degree who couldn't read a simple Terms of Sale contract properly. :p <hr /></blockquote>What makes you so sure that Sony isn't properly screwing Marvel? I get the feeling that if the tables were turned, and we found out that Marvel was getting screwed but didn't take Sony to court, you would still say Marvel is being run by idiots. In some circles, you would be judged a troll because your posting opinions that have little basis on reality. Just pure and simple name calling.

So, when is it a good time to bring this up anyway? X2 comes out in May and the Hulk comes out in June or July. I guess Marvel should wait till August or September. They need to act now. If Sony is screwing them, Marvel has all the cards in it's hand. Marvel is the company with the hot properties that all of Hollywood is tripping over itself to get to. You really think Sony or any other studio is going to stop working with Marvel after seeing the success of the x-men, spidey and DD (the combined box office total of the 3 movies is around $750,000,000. FYI, "Triple X" made around $150,000,000 at the box office, "The Fellowship of the Ring" and "The Two Towers" each brought in around $300,000,000. My figures come from rottentomatoes.com

Sony isn't going to stop and wait for Marvel to tie it's shoes. If they wronged them, they aren't going to admit it unless they are taken to court. Putting off a confrontation with Sony is only going to make things worse for Marvel.

gon

04-18-2003, 12:41 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by brett:
What goes around, comes around.

Marvel reneged on their contract with Stan Lee, the creator of Spiderman, the man who MADE Marvel what it is (and without him or Ditko there wouldn't have even BEEN a Spider man movie) and shut him out of payments they were supposed to make, so now Sony to Marvel, what Marvel did to their creators.
<hr /></blockquote>not that i want to defend marvel against the creators, but you should check your sources: marvel didn't reneged on their contract with stan lee.
marvel actually says that the contract estipulates that stan lee is not entitled to any payments yet. as i understand it, it's a matter of how both sides interpret said contract.

and, by the way, i don't want to pop anybody's bubble, but i believe that the role of david here (as in david and goliath) pertains to marvel. sony is huuuuuge. marvel is not. just to put things into perspective.

QCCBob

04-18-2003, 08:37 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ramberk:
What makes you so sure that Sony isn't properly screwing Marvel? <hr /></blockquote>Where did I say they didn't? If they are 'screwing' Marvel, big deal. Given the money they did get, the press and hype, as well as the leverage it gave them to renegotiate existing deals, I think they are just crazy to do this. After years of horrible deals, this one wasn't that bad and garnered them more respect and money than X-Men. The fall out from this is very likely going to be very damaging for Marvel. On one hand, I'd think Sony can keep them in court for a very long time, if they choose to and, on the other, as I said before it sets a bad precedent for those considering licensing their characters.

DragynWulf

04-19-2003, 11:31 PM

This lawsuit most likely came because of the Stan Lee lawsuit against Marvel. Lee claimed that he wasn't being paid the full amount owed to him by the statements that Marvel released about the SPIDER-MAN movie.
Marvel either..........
A) Found out information about money they were losing out when Lee filed against them.
or
B) Want to get more money because of Lee's lawsuit.

OcCaM

04-22-2003, 09:30 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by arthur pendragon:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by OcCaM:
Yes how do you? How much of your income gets donated to starving children's causes and other causes? If you can still spend money on comics which aren't needed for life, yet aren't spending that helping others, you're just as hypocritical as the rest of the world.

Get over yourself already!<hr /></blockquote>With great power there must also come great responsibility, or to put it another way, "And the men who hold high places, must be the ones who start, to mold a new reality, closer to the heart", or to put it another way, the fish rots from the head, down. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>B.S! That's the "oh look everyone else jumps off of a cliff so it must be okay!" syndrome. One must take responsibility for onself and oneself only for one's actions first! If one is going to spout cliches. I mean if everyone else is doing wrong it must be okay does NOT cut it with me!

But still, I'm sure you were just being facetious, hence the smiley! :) G/day!

swol

04-25-2003, 03:42 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr /> One must take responsibility for onself and oneself only for one's actions first! <hr /></blockquote>What a novel concept! :p