DAN DIDIO ON DAN DIDIO, PART 3

[MattBrady]

<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/dclogoblue8jf.gif" align="right"><i>Click <a href=http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Didio/DidioPart1.html>here</a> for part one.

Click <a href=http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Didio/Didio02.html>here</a> for part two.</i>

<b>Newsarama</b>: Something that’s interesting while we’re talking about changes being made to the characters, and that Superman and Batman are machines unto themselves, and you have a big interest in making sure the “changes” only go so far – what happens when another part of Time-Warner institutes a change a la <i>Superman Returns</i>? There’s a big change for the character in there…

<b>Dan Didio</b>: This goes back to Paul Levitz when I first got the job – there are three levels of continuity:

#1 – The immutables. These are things like: Bruce Wayne is Batman. His parents were killed; he puts on a cape and cowl. Superman was rocketed to earth as a small child, is Clark Kent when he’s not Superman, and uses his powers to fight for good. These can’t change, because that’s who the characters are.

#2 – Supergirl comes from Krypton, and is Superman’s cousin. There might be a dog. Kryptonite is something that can kill Superman. The second level is made up of things that enhance the storytelling and enhance Superman’s world, and things that you can build story potential from.

#3 – And this is what everyone seems to be most interested in – Batman is left handed, for example. Superman wears his belt to the left, not the right. His hair is combed this way. Granted, those are things that are important to who the character is, but they’re not essential to the story, and are therefore the things we can change the most, and things that change the most, but never the first, and rarely, if ever, the second. Changes in those levels of continuity often cause more problems than they solve.

Click here (http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/Didio/DidioPart3.html) for the full Q&A.

[TheLizard207]

Good Interview

[ParisCub]

Q: Both DC and Marvel have established essentially continuity cheats with House of M where the world was created and re-created, and you guys with Superboy punching the wall to shift things to where you wanted them.

DD: I don't know if it's a cheat - I think it's being clever. [laughs]

For me, having Superboy prime puncing a wall to alter continuity is about as stupid as the Superman low-level hypnosis he refers to earlier in the interview as being one of the things DC doesn't want right now.

That being said, interesting interview.

[deadmerc]

Obviously, those three levels of continuity only apply to the "big 3" since he's broken them all for lesser characters.

[Spade]

Bringing attention to bad stories? DC does this all the time. Example being the spoiler from Battle for Bludhaven.

[Nakedmanatee]

I don't always agree with Mr. Didio, but he is right on about the Guardians. And I hope he's learned his lesson about messing with Dick Grayson.

yr. buddy,

David

[SpyGuy]

Q: It seems that sometimes changes are made, both at DC and at Marvel, that are focused on the immediate-term that don't look at the big picture. For example, aging Bart in Flash was something done for the short term which seems like it could create more problems in the long term. Likewise, something like Spider-Man unmasking seems good now, but doesn't make sense in the long-term view…

DD: The Bart change for me personally is a long-term change, a long-term plan. There's a reason for it.

We've got story ideas worked out through about 2008-2009 right now, so there's stuff that's being planted in books right now that will play out two years from now, because that's the fun part of what we do. And when we hit two years from now, you'll be able to look back and say, "Damn it - I should've seen that coming." That's the kind of things that I like to do.

So there's a long-term plan for aging Bart? That's great...as long as readers want to stick with the book for another two years.

After two issues, though, the decision to abruptly write out Wally and replace him with Bart -- losing the Kid Flash character in the process -- seems like a poor one to me. Bart's origin was convoluted enough to explain and by aging him again, the explanation is now even worse. I'd be curious to see how Geoff Johns would condense Bart's background into a single paragraph for use in a FLASH title page intro caption.

[Spade]

Yeah what if fans still don't like a change 2 years from now?

After Infinite Crisis/OYL/ETC do people like or appreciate Graduation Day now ?

[jonnynyc]

It really seems like they aged Bart to make him a Wally clone but get rid of the wife aspect.
I bet Marvel wishes they could do that with Spider-Man.
It's a shame though cause it was nice to have a happily married young superhero.
That said, the new Flash series is painful so far and I can't imagine being able to stick with it for another 2 years.

[NielsVanEekelen]

When he mentioned the low-level hypnotism thing, the first thing that came to my mind was that it sounded like the kind weird idea Grant Morrison might put in All-Star Superman.

[saiyanspider]

Hey Didio, where's an affordable paperback edition of JLA/Avengers! 76 dollars is a lot man!

[Kolimar]

Good Interview

Ditto. :) ...

[farwell3d]

Yeah what if fans still don't like a change 2 years from now?

After Infinite Crisis/OYL/ETC do people like or appreciate Graduation Day now ?

Speaking soley for me, no. Hell no. God, what a bad story that was.

[Kolimar]

So there's a long-term plan for aging Bart? That's great...as long as readers want to stick with the book for another two years.

After two issues, though, the decision to abruptly write out Wally and replace him with Bart -- losing the Kid Flash character in the process -- seems like a poor one to me. Bart's origin was convoluted enough to explain and by aging him again, the explanation is now even worse. I'd be curious to see how Geoff Johns would condense Bart's background into a single paragraph for use in a FLASH title page intro caption.

Good points.

[Rebis]

Hey Matt,

The link to Dan Part 2 takes us to Dan Part 1 again.

[cncoyle]

After Infinite Crisis/OYL/ETC do people like or appreciate Graduation Day now ?Not I. Years later, the story remains crap, from Cyborg being the DCU's Mr. Potato Head* to never-before-seen-and-not-seen-since "battle armor" to "Oh, yeah, Lilith died, too..." to the villain being a lame :mad:frickin' Superman robot:mad:.



*Well, I guess he shares that title with Red Tornado.

[phunengames]

So there's a long-term plan for aging Bart? That's great...as long as readers want to stick with the book for another two years.

After two issues, though, the decision to abruptly write out Wally and replace him with Bart -- losing the Kid Flash character in the process -- seems like a poor one to me. Bart's origin was convoluted enough to explain and by aging him again, the explanation is now even worse. I'd be curious to see how Geoff Johns would condense Bart's background into a single paragraph for use in a FLASH title page intro caption.

Looking back at what DC has done with Identity Crisis and Infinite Crisis, they have creditability with having long term plans. Even little toss away minis like Batman: Death and the Maidens and the Deadshot mini had points that DC used in the future. Hey the Science Police are in Superman. DC has drop a lot of interesting bread crumbs. Will it pay off? I do not know. The bottom line for me at the point is that "Long Term Plan" means something in DC. I just hope they do not mess it up. It has been fun rereading some books to see something I missed.

[Kolimar]

DD: No - we wanted to get that back where it was. The Green Lantern Corps and Green Lanterns are great concepts. Great concepts, and we got away from them. When they came up with the decision to kill all the Green Lanterns so the one Green Lantern would then be unique…really missed the point of the larger concept. What Green Lantern was about was about the Corps. Yes, we have one, but even our one was originally given the ring by a member of that larger Corps. It's like saying you can't watch a police show because there are ten cops on it, instead of one, or a war movie because there's a whole army.

First, they didn't kill all the GLs. At the time, Kilowog and Sinestro were the only ones positively killed. The few in Jordan's way were simply abandoned and Jordan said he had left them enough power, iirc. The rest were depowered and left to their own means. The problem is, as much as I love the GLC/GL concepts, they weren't in good shape back then. There wasn't much interest and I guess there wasn't a good pitch in the level of Johns' to bring them back to the spotlight. In any case, the GL concept wasn't abandoned, they simply used it in a different way. And it worked. Fantastically well, I might add. And the best part of that for the GLC/Guardians fans is that those concepts rested for a good long while, waiting for the right pitch and they came back recharged, as it usually happens when done right. Simply put, I don't think we would be here if we hadn't been there before.

[Storminator]

First, they didn't kill all the GLs. At the time, Kilowog and Sinestro were the only ones positively killed. The few in Jordan's way were simply abandoned and Jordan said he had left them enough power, iirc. The rest were depowered and left to their own means. The problem is, as much as I love the GLC/GL concepts, they weren't in good shape back then. There wasn't much interest and I guess there wasn't a good pitch in the level of Johns' to bring them back to the spotlight. In any case, the GL concept wasn't abandoned, they simply used it in a different way. And it worked. Fantastically well, I might add. And the best part of that for the GLC/Guardians fans is that those concepts rested for a good long while, waiting for the right pitch and they came back recharged, as it usually happens when done right. Simply put, I don't think we would be here if we hadn't been there before.

Uhhhhmmm....whatever you choose to believe. I'm not going to slag on what DC did with the Corps in the '90s but I think you are in the minority on your feelings about it. I take it your readership of comics started late '80s or '90s? I'm not trying to be a butt hole, I'm just asking. It would explain your feeling on this.

Didio has the GLC concept right. I still don't agree with some other moves he's made but he's right.

[Kolimar]

Not I. Years later, the story remains crap, from Cyborg being the DCU's Mr. Potato Head* to never-before-seen-and-not-seen-since "battle armor" to "Oh, yeah, Lilith died, too..." to the villain being a lame :mad:frickin' Superman robot:mad:.



*Well, I guess he shares that title with Red Tornado.

Still an open wound, eh? Good, keep it open because I agree. :) And I don't mind watching you bleeding to death. :p :D ;)

[cncoyle]

First, they didn't kill all the GLs. At the time, Kilowog and Sinestro were the only ones positively killed. The few in Jordan's way were simply abandoned and Jordan said he had left them enough power, iirc. Nah, Legacy: The Last Will and Testament of Hal Jordan had a tomb for Tomar Tu, who is currently alive & kicking in Green Lantern.

*continuity punch*

[Spade]

Uhhhhmmm....whatever you choose to believe. I'm not going to slag on what DC did with the Corps in the '90s but I think you are in the minority on your feelings about it. I take it your readership of comics started late '80s or '90s? I'm not trying to be a butt hole, I'm just asking. It would explain your feeling on this.

Didio has the GLC concept right. I still don't agree with some other moves he's made but he's right.


I started in the early 80's and Oliver Queen and Hal Jordan could have stayed dead IMO.

[Michael Heide]

We talk about Hypertime…the problem with Hypertime is that nobody really gets it right except Grant. He's the only guy who understands it, and can explain it so that you understand it. But if you try to repeat it…good luck. [laughs] But that's one of the biggest problems we have - trying to get concepts from one person to another.
If DC Comics were a building, then every parallel timeline had its own floor.
Hypertime is the elevator.

[cncoyle]

If DC Comics were a building, then every parallel timeline had its own floor.
Hypertime is the elevator.Otis Hypertime, I dig it.

[Kolimar]

Uhhhhmmm....whatever you choose to believe. I'm not going to slag on what DC did with the Corps in the '90s but I think you are in the minority on your feelings about it.

I don't think so. More like 50-50. If we really are a minority I don't think it's by much. There are a lot of Kyle Rayner and ET fans out there.

Hmm... Now that I think about it in some more detail, perhaps I am in the minority because I'm ok with ET, Kyle Rayner, Hal Jordan, Rebirth, GLC, Guy Gardner GL, Warrior, Kilowog, Sinestro, etc. I like 'em all (even with all my complaints). :D


I take it your readership of comics started late '80s or '90s? I'm not trying to be a butt hole, I'm just asking. It would explain your feeling on this.

Around '84 but I didn't really get into DC until COIE


Didio has the GLC concept right. I still don't agree with some other moves he's made but he's right.

I'm not saying Didio is wrong about the GLC concept in general. But I think he's wrong about DC being wrong in the 90s. I'm not saying ET was perfect either (I would have prefered to keep Hal Jordan pretty much as he was or improve him in some other way). I'm saying it was a decent story that generated Kyle (great character), incredibly exciting changes for a lot of others (one in particular) and an era of general GL goodness. It's pretty much a larger version of what he said in a previous part of this interview (I think): the GL universe had to be broken to be reassembled right.
Let's get past that. IMHO, what DC did back then was right for them, then and there. It's very easy for Didio to say "they were wrong" now that he has the power, after it's all changed. In a way, he has to say that. After all, he needs a reason for the retcons and changes. It's the normal MO for new administrations to say "I have to deal with the problems left behind by the previous administration". Guess what the next guy will say in a few years.
IMHO, it was a controversial decision not everyone agreed with. That doesn't make it wrong. It's just like bringing back Hal Jordan as a GL after everything he's been through. Not everyone agreed and lot thought it was a copout. There are those who think it's not even a good story or at the very least it has weak elements. Personally, I loved the rebirth of the Guardians, Hal's comeback as a GL and the return of the GLC and I couldn't be happier about the GL corner of the DCU. Then again, there's no pleasing everybody. :D

[StevieCool]

What? Only one guy figured out the five monitors are for the five earths?

Old Monitor = Earth 2, Anti Monitor = Earth 3, etc.

Sadly, Earth X has nothing to do with a inhibition free Earth. I could totally see a Ron Jeremy Monitor in that "Brave New World" scene

[OM]

:D The reason why we put the continuity wave in there? One reason - I wanted to use the Jim Aparo page. That's one of the reasons why it tied in that way. It was a key moment of DC's history that was never published in a comic, and Aparo is one of my favorite artists in comics ever. I wanted to get that page in there, so we put it in there, and used the continuity wave to explain it....Read: "I'm in charge here, and I do what the f'uck I want to do, fanboy. You don't like it, tough s'hit!"

I dunno, kids. Attitudes like this make me wonder whether Didio's channeling Infantino, Shooter or Harras...:confused: :confused: :confused:

We talk about Hypertime…the problem with Hypertime is that nobody really gets it right except Grant. He's the only guy who understands it, and can explain it so that you understand it. But if you try to repeat it…good luck. [laughs] But that's one of the biggest problems we have - trying to get concepts from one person to another....To be honest, Dan's been so adamant, obteuse and obnoxious with regards to Hypertime that I strongly suspect he's deliberately being so in hopes that everyone will quit bugging him about it lest they *really* piss him off, and thus let it eventually be forgotten.

Sorry, Dan, but if that tactic ever worked, Tricky Dick would have been able to complete his second term, and Slick Willie would have been able to air his stogie escapades on live TV...

Speaking of oral exams:

Sadly, Earth X has nothing to do with a inhibition free Earth. I could totally see a Ron Jeremy Monitor in that "Brave New World" scene...Are you kidding? *You* try self-fellatio in that armor! :p :p

Otis Hypertime, I dig it....Ah, so *that's* why Otis wasn't in <I>Superman Returns</i>. S-Prime knocked him out of existence!

[n8twing]

<< Q: Yeah, but using the Batman Annual as an example, Jason Todd came back, but came back in a way that really pulled you out of the story and forced you to swallow some pretty weird stuff if you anted to move forward…

DD: The reason why we put the continuity wave in there? One reason - I wanted to use the Jim Aparo page. That's one of the reasons why it tied in that way. It was a key moment of DC's history that was never published in a comic, and Aparo is one of my favorite artists in comics ever. I wanted to get that page in there, so we put it in there, and used the continuity wave to explain it. >>

Wow.

Isn't that sorta the same as the super-hypno-glasses? I think the Superboy punch is just as cheesy.

Also, Didio makes a character history/return further complicated JUST to publish a Jim Aparo page? I don't think that's a good thing. That's sacrificing story for a fanboy impulse.

[Lukecash]

Uhhhhmmm....whatever you choose to believe. I'm not going to slag on what DC did with the Corps in the '90s but I think you are in the minority on your feelings about it. I take it your readership of comics started late '80s or '90s? I'm not trying to be a butt hole, I'm just asking. It would explain your feeling on this.

Didio has the GLC concept right. I still don't agree with some other moves he's made but he's right.


Gotta say this: In the 80's and 90's the Green Lantern Concept was completely on shakey ground. Seems like no matter what they tried, nothing stuck. The thought that to make the name Green Lantern a UNIQUE hero seemed to be a good idea at the time. Thus Kyle Rayner was born.

What it all boils down to is who is actually writing it.

[MattBrady]

If DC Comics were a building, then every parallel timeline had its own floor.
Hypertime is the elevator. nah - that makes the timelines too rigid. As it was originally explained, they could cross, uncross, and run paralell for long courses. I believe a junction box with a mess of wires in it was the original descriptor, and "hypertime" encompassed the entire collection, not one means of navigating through all realities.

MattB

[Michael Heide]

Gotta say this: In the 80's and 90's the Green Lantern Concept was completely on shakey ground. Seems like no matter what they tried, nothing stuck. The thought that to make the name Green Lantern a UNIQUE hero seemed to be a good idea at the time. Thus Kyle Rayner was born.
One should add that the original Green Lantern wasn't a member of the corps as well. In fact, he didn't have any ties to a corps at all, until it was retconned into his backstory later, further complicating matters.

So there is no single way it should be done. Only several different ways it can be done.

[OM]

nah - that makes the timelines too rigid. As it was originally explained, they could cross, uncross, and run paralell for long courses. I believe a junction box with a mess of wires in it was the original descriptor, and "hypertime" encompassed the entire collection, not one means of navigating through all realities....Ok, so it's a frackin' cross between a Starfleet turbolift, the Wonkavator, and the TARDIS, then.

Sheesh...:D

[Michael Heide]

nah - that makes the timelines too rigid. As it was originally explained, they could cross, uncross, and run paralell for long courses. I believe a junction box with a mess of wires in it was the original descriptor, and "hypertime" encompassed the entire collection, not one means of navigating through all realities.

MattB
I tried coming up with the simplest metaphor so everybody can understand the concept. Of course, you could add staircases to the metaphor to connect several floors of the building. Hypertime, however, is the one place that connects them all, from which you can enter every single timeline. Hence, the elevator idea.

[CodeGuy]

Hypertime is just a mess. It's a way of trying to justify things that make no sense. I think they'd be better off if they just never mentioned it again. Sometimes goofs happen, don't try to justify them.

[Michael Heide]

Hypertime is just a mess. It's a way of trying to justify things that make no sense. I think they'd be better off if they just never mentioned it again. Sometimes goofs happen, don't try to justify them.
Why do you think Hypertime makes no sense?

[Spade]

I simply took it to mean because of so much time traveling and reality jumping had occur in the dc universe that reality was in constantly in flux unknown to the characters in the books. I think comic book readers are to anal to accept that explanation.

[MattBrady]

I tried coming up with the simplest metaphor so everybody can understand the concept. Of course, you could add staircases to the metaphor to connect several floors of the building. Hypertime, however, is the one place that connects them all, from which you can enter every single timeline. Hence, the elevator idea. yeah, but that dosn't allow for intersection of timelines...which was part of the original explanation.

MattB

[Superfrick]

...Ok, so it's a frackin' cross between a Starfleet turbolift, the Wonkavator, and the TARDIS, then.

Sheesh...:D

Except that the TARDIS is unable to travel through realities ...except for the times that it did :)

Take a can of silly-string, puncture it with a nail and quickly toss it in a shoe-box. The inside of that shoebox is Hypertime!

[Munch]

He has more ideas in the elevator coming up to the DC offices than I've had in my life, and that's only going a few floors.

And then sometimes Didio actually manages to say something that's true despite himself.

[cncoyle]

yeah, but that dosn't allow for intersection of timelines...which was part of the original explanation.

MattBIs Hypertime like a Koosh ball?

http://static.flickr.com/1/1103177_9ce5cd7f20_m.jpg

[Superfrick]

Is Hypertime like a Koosh ball?

http://static.flickr.com/1/1103177_9ce5cd7f20_m.jpg

Yes! Best explanation ever. Someone needs to tell Didio

[AdamYJ]

First, they didn't kill all the GLs. At the time, Kilowog and Sinestro were the only ones positively killed. The few in Jordan's way were simply abandoned and Jordan said he had left them enough power, iirc. The rest were depowered and left to their own means. The problem is, as much as I love the GLC/GL concepts, they weren't in good shape back then. There wasn't much interest and I guess there wasn't a good pitch in the level of Johns' to bring them back to the spotlight. In any case, the GL concept wasn't abandoned, they simply used it in a different way. And it worked. Fantastically well, I might add. And the best part of that for the GLC/Guardians fans is that those concepts rested for a good long while, waiting for the right pitch and they came back recharged, as it usually happens when done right. Simply put, I don't think we would be here if we hadn't been there before.

It was an idea with potential. It's not just "Green Lantern is one guy". It's the idea of "The Last Green Lantern". It's being the last of a proud order. The last Knight of the Round Table. The last Jedi. Kyle Rayner is the Luke Skywalker of the Green Lantern Corps. It's true that they were already trying to rebuild the Corps when Emerald Twilight was happening. The thing was that it was Hal who was doing it, so it seemed to be going a little too well. Giving the job to some young guy who didn't know what he was doing was a completely different animal from letting Hal do it. Unfortunately, that idea wasn't really allowed to be played with. They did the "New Corps" miniseries then went straight back to the Kyle Rayner status quo.

Oh, what could have been. :(

[Avilos]

Kryptonite is something that can kill Superman. I would think this is firmly in the 1st level of immutable continuity. Unless he is refering to other forms of Kryptonite. But even then the basic green type has always been able to kill Superman.

[Kolimar]

Why do you think Hypertime makes no sense?

I have never figured out what's the big deal. What's oh so complicated about Hypertime? It's pretty simple. It automatically explains mistakes away and allows for in story explanations if needed or wanted. It accepts Elseworlds (I love them) and alternate realities in general allowing for the possibility of interaction. In a way it brought back the multiverse but even better because it didn't need to be adressed except when someone really wanted to. All the pre-Crisis stories. Everything. It's extremely simple and it makes sense.

[mrbones]

Also, Didio makes a character history/return further complicated JUST to publish a Jim Aparo page? I don't think that's a good thing. That's sacrificing story for a fanboy impulse.

I disagree. It was a fitting tribute to a legend that passed.

[Avilos]

I have never figured out what's the big deal. What's oh so complicated about Hypertime? It's pretty simple. It automatically explains mistakes away and allows for in story explanations if needed or wanted. It accepts Elseworlds (I love them) and alternate realities in general allowing for the possibility of interaction. In a way it brought back the multiverse but even better because it didn't need to be adressed except when someone really wanted to. All the pre-Crisis stories. Everything. It's extremely simple and it makes sense.

I think the actual problem was it really is not an explaination at all. Just an in-story description of the actual publishing history. It is just everything and the kitchen sink. I think it would have been fine as just a fan theory or consolation to keep everything "vailid" so nothing was thrown away. But it was not something that should have been mentioned in the actual books or certainly not focued on.

[mrbones]

Take a can of silly-string, puncture it with a nail and quickly toss it in a shoe-box. The inside of that shoebox is Hypertime!

LMAOL!! Exactly!! :D

[Del Gorky]

This lengthy three part interview/conversation/ramble/ego display by Didio was far too much of the man and about the man. He's just not that interesting yet he keeps popping up on my Newsarama doorstep like a proselytizing Jehovah's Witness.

This third part was the best though. It was short and comics focused.

Still let's have a little less of hearing from the editors in chief whether it be Didio or Quesadilla. Let's face it neither are as entertaining to talk with as Jim Shooter. Didio is boring and Quesadilla tries to act brash and controversial. Shooter was actually brash and controversial and never boring.:p

[Kolimar]

We talk about Hypertime…the problem with Hypertime is that nobody really gets it right except Grant. He's the only guy who understands it, and can explain it so that you understand it. But if you try to repeat it…good luck. [laughs] But that's one of the biggest problems we have - trying to get concepts from one person to another.

I'd like a clarification here. Does he mean that Morrison is the only guy who gets it in order to write a story about it or using it? Or that no one else gets it in any way? If the latter is the case (which I refuse to believe) they're in serious trouble. I get it and I'm not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree. Well, I think I get it, at least... :p :D If it is the former, I agree it wouldn't be a walk in the park but I don't see how it would be much more complicated than the last couple of years of DCU stories and wall-punching moments. :rolleyes: :p :D And I keep coming back to: JUST Morrison? How come? Waid co-created it. His Kingdom story wasn't the best ever but it was fine with a touch of Silver Age feeling and it explained everything quite nicely for me.

[Davy]

For me, having Superboy prime puncing a wall to alter continuity is about as stupid as the Superman low-level hypnosis he refers to earlier in the interview as being one of the things DC doesn't want right now.

Exactly. The whole Jason Todd thing fell apart with that explanation. And did we really need Jason Todd back anyway? Was it worth it just to have that one page published? Ugh.

So there's a long-term plan for aging Bart? That's great...as long as readers want to stick with the book for another two years.

Exactly. Second issue's past and I'm out. I'm sure there are folks out there who'll say "give it time, keep reading," but ya know, in this economy, if they haven't hooked me yet (these first two issues have been pretty stinky), they're not gonna.

Davy

[Hypertime]

We talk about Hypertime…the problem with Hypertime is that nobody really gets [him] right except Grant. He's the only guy who understands [him]...

Sigh, tell me about it.

[farwell3d]

I want Hypertime, just because that way, I know that a timeline/universe/whatever still exists where Hal Jordan was a great hero, who lost his mind, did terrible things, died to both save the universe and redeem himself, and became, for the first and only time in his history, and interesting character. He then became the Spectre, and had a ton more potential right there than ever got tapped. Instead, it wasn't his fault what he did, and he back alive, with less than 1/10th the level of interesting backstory.

*sigh* Give me hypertime.

As for "The Last GL" stuff with Kyle, I loved the idea of him rebuilding the corps. But, really, it would have been great to see him actually rebuild a brand new corps. Instead, everyone is back. Yay. So much for the rather interesting idea of seeing "The last of the old Green Laterns" become "the first of the new Green Laterns."

Ah well, such is life.

[NCcomicJIm]

Ok , so Ive been a DC loyalist for the better part of the last 30 years so it pains me to say this.........Dan Didio just doesnt get it. You mean to tell me its going to be 2 or 3 more years before all the Identity Crisis/Infinite Crisis plot threads are fully resolved.Ive invested alot of cash to try to keep up with this. Wrap up a freaking story

My DC pull list pre OYL was EVERY monthly DC universe book........now its 7. Theres two or 3 writers even making DC viable right now, but it seems like its becoming The Morrisonverse.Didio just kisses his ass to no end.Granted( no pun intended), he's an elite writer, but one writer can't mold the whole line

DC is ruined.90 percent of the books have now become an homage to the Silver Age, seemingly telling us things that have been told before.Plus, and I know this could be inflammatory to some, but must every long standing character be replaced with a minority of some kind. Nothing wrong with minorities, but is it this way to tell a story, or is this some TW/AOL diversity agenda?

Dont even get me started on Flash.Bart's now got Barry's suit or a replica,which is an insult to the legacy of Barry Allen.......Ive read this book,whether I was collecting at the time or not, for 28 years.........until this week. I cant stomach this title right now.......call me when Wally's back

never thought Id say this........Make Mine Marvel

[IvCNuB4]

What? Only one guy figured out the five monitors are for the five earths?

Old Monitor = Earth 2, Anti Monitor = Earth 3, etc.

Sadly, Earth X has nothing to do with a inhibition free Earth. I could totally see a Ron Jeremy Monitor in that "Brave New World" scene

I thought there was a Monitor for each person that was still an anolmaly in the New Earth DCU ...

[Snowspinner]

Wow.

Isn't that sorta the same as the super-hypno-glasses? I think the Superboy punch is just as cheesy.

Also, Didio makes a character history/return further complicated JUST to publish a Jim Aparo page? I don't think that's a good thing. That's sacrificing story for a fanboy impulse.

I don't think so - but the difference is subtle. If I understand Didio's logic, and I'm increasingly confident that I do, he's invested heavily in working with, rather than in the legacy of DC.

What is the point of the super-hypno glasses? To answer a question that had been ignored by the comics. That is to say, it takes something that has to be true for the story to work (That people do not notice that Clark Kent is Superman) and brings in new material to explain it. In other words, it takes something that worked (Superman stories) and tried to add to it in order to keep it exactly the same as it already was and was working.

What is the point of the continuity wave? To advance something in an ongoing storyline about Jason Todd. The thing is, Jason Todd has a classic story. The classic Jason Todd story is his death. And so the classic Jason Todd image is Aparo.

Now if you want to change the Jason Todd story - if you want to take something that had been working (Jason was dead) and change it to something new - in Didio's logic, you have to make that transition with respect to what came before. And so you can't engage Jason Todd without going through the archetype - just like in IC #4, Earth-2 Superman attacked Earth-1 Superman with the cover to Action Comics #1. So using the Aparo page wasn't fanservice, because ultimately Batman Annual #25 was in part <i>about</i> the Death in the Family comic. And so it was in part about Aparo.

To answer someone else's point, yeah - sure. Morrison might well use the low-level hypnotism in All-Star Superman. The thing is, All-Star Superman is a comic that, on a fundamental level, is <i>about</i> other comics. It's a comic about the Silver Age. And specifically a comic about crappy Silver Age stories, and their relationship to modern comics. That is different from what the low-level hypnotism story was about.

It's a subtle difference, as I said. But it captures the heart of what Didio is doing with DC. He's making the bulk of the DC Universe a meta-comic about the history, legacy, and nature of the DC Universe.

[Snowspinner]

Exactly. Second issue's past and I'm out. I'm sure there are folks out there who'll say "give it time, keep reading," but ya know, in this economy, if they haven't hooked me yet (these first two issues have been pretty stinky), they're not gonna.


Nor me. But that's because I have no love of the writers, not because I object to Bart as the Flash. Get me Rucka, or Johns, or Busiek on Flash, and I'm in in a heartbeat, whether it's Bart, Wally, Barry, or Jay in the lead.

[Snowspinner]

Ok , so Ive been a DC loyalist for the better part of the last 30 years so it pains me to say this.........Dan Didio just doesnt get it. You mean to tell me its going to be 2 or 3 more years before all the Identity Crisis/Infinite Crisis plot threads are fully resolved.Ive invested alot of cash to try to keep up with this. Wrap up a freaking story

My DC pull list pre OYL was EVERY monthly DC universe book........now its 7. Theres two or 3 writers even making DC viable right now, but it seems like its becoming The Morrisonverse.Didio just kisses his ass to no end.Granted( no pun intended), he's an elite writer, but one writer can't mold the whole line

DC is ruined.90 percent of the books have now become an homage to the Silver Age, seemingly telling us things that have been told before.Plus, and I know this could be inflammatory to some, but must every long standing character be replaced with a minority of some kind. Nothing wrong with minorities, but is it this way to tell a story, or is this some TW/AOL diversity agenda?

Dont even get me started on Flash.Bart's now got Barry's suit or a replica,which is an insult to the legacy of Barry Allen.......Ive read this book,whether I was collecting at the time or not, for 28 years.........until this week. I cant stomach this title right now.......call me when Wally's back

never thought Id say this........Make Mine Marvel

Well, fine...

I grew up on Marvel. I loved Spider-Man and X-Men. They were my absolute favorite comics. I'm not buying them right now.

Because Marvel is just telling stories with no attention to the future of the characters. They're telling stories with no thought for what they'll be doing in a decade. And so there's no sense of legacy - it's a bunch of discrete miniseries, occasionally linked together by some megaplot thrown down by Millar or Bendis. Who can't run a whole universe.

Whereas DC, even in the books I'm not digging (Robin, Flash, Wonder Woman), is thinking about legacy, and is always asking what the characters and books <i>are</i>. What's essential to them? What's the heart of the character? What will they be doing with it in a decade?

I'm buying all of four Marvel titles, and well over a dozen DC.

Which is to say, there are two very different editorial philosophies going on here, and any discussion about the lines needs to, in order to be remotely productive, be a discussion about the merits of those philosophies, not about Marvel vs. DC as such.

[grantg]

DD: No - it's done. The idea was to forgive all our sins of the past so we could concentrate on moving into the future. As simple as that.

So now Ted Kord and the JLI are a "sin?" Way to go DiDio.

[Deadshot77]

Didio if you really wanted that Aparo image printed, all you had to do was release a Death in the Family ABSOLUTE EDITION. No need to create a Wall Punching theory for it. lol.

The best part is where he admits the Corps is a good idea. At least he "gets" it. So we don't have to worry about the LAST Green Lantern idea hopefully ever again....

[CodeGuy]

I think the actual problem was it really is not an explaination at all. Just an in-story description of the actual publishing history. It is just everything and the kitchen sink. I think it would have been fine as just a fan theory or consolation to keep everything "vailid" so nothing was thrown away. But it was not something that should have been mentioned in the actual books or certainly not focued on.

Exactly. Hypertime is a cheat. Everything is true, even the stuff that is contradictory? That can't help but confuse people.

It's basically the same thing as drawing attention to bad stories.

and there were bad stories told - we don't want to go and tell another story to correct the bad story, nor do we want to draw attention to it.

That's how hypertime should be treated. There's just too much weirdness in DC already to try and work it out. They should just move on, not try to come up with a convoluted way to say "Black Canary is the original Black Canary in her daughter's body" and "Black Canary is the 2nd Black Canary and was raised by the first." They *can't* both be true, and using a fancy sounding word like hypertime doesn't make it less convoluted.

[Michael Heide]

Because Marvel is just telling stories with no attention to the future of the characters. They're telling stories with no thought for what they'll be doing in a decade.
According to the writers and the editors, their plans span the next couple of years, and they've always got an ending in mind. Spider-Man's new costume? Gone in summer 2007. The classic Avengers? Well, it's no problem for a later writer to bring a retro team back. And so on.
And so there's no sense of legacy - it's a bunch of discrete miniseries, occasionally linked together by some megaplot thrown down by Millar or Bendis. Who can't run a whole universe.
Why do you need legacy? When I read Daredevil, I feel no need for Brubaker to tell me what happened twenty years ago. When I read Runaways, the few instances where the series connect with the rest of the Marvel Universe (Cloak and Dagger, the Doombot, the New Avengers, the FCBD issue with the X-Men) are the weakest stories of the series. I can enjoy every book on its own.

Whereas DC, even in the books I'm not digging (Robin, Flash, Wonder Woman), is thinking about legacy, and is always asking what the characters and books are. What's essential to them? What's the heart of the character? What will they be doing with it in a decade?
Rather what the characters and books were. What were they doing two decades ago.

I'm buying all of four Marvel titles, and well over a dozen DC.
I'm buying two DC titles (All-Star Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder, All-Star Superman) and well over a dozen Marvel.

I don't intend this to be a battle. I only want to show you that there are two sides to every coin. You prefer DC, a bunch of books deeply rooted in their history. There's nothing wrong with that. I prefer Marvel, a bunch of books that are progressive, that actually move things forward to avoid staleness. Nothing wrong with that either, I hope.

[Kolimar]

Exactly. Hypertime is a cheat. Everything is true, even the stuff that is contradictory? That can't help but confuse people.

It's basically the same thing as drawing attention to bad stories.



That's how hypertime should be treated. There's just too much weirdness in DC already to try and work it out. They should just move on, not try to come up with a convoluted way to say "Black Canary is the original Black Canary in her daughter's body" and "Black Canary is the 2nd Black Canary and was raised by the first." They *can't* both be true, and using a fancy sounding word like hypertime doesn't make it less convoluted.

Sigh... Again, it's not so complicated. As comic book fans we're all aware that reality/continuity can change. Be it because of time travel, editors' whims, whatever. It doesn't change the fact that we remember the previous reality. It doesn't matter if we loved it or hated it. It changed and we remember it. What Hypertime does is say that that previous reality did exist after all, even if it doesn't exist anymore in current continuity. What's so confusing or complicated about that? :confused: How does it affect the current DCU? Answer: it doesn't. Unless the editors and/or creators want to bring something back from limbo in which case Hypertime gives them an official back door. Instead we have Superboy's punches. :rolleyes:

Part of the beauty of the DCU is its wonderful past that they keep using updated bits of. And all the alternate realities and possible futures and that's not counting Elseworlds. Hypertime simply made it all official and offered the possibility of being able to use those stories to generate more.

Telling me that there was absolutely NO Supergirl before the current one and that all their stories don't count, now that's cheating. :rolleyes: :mad: :(

[CodeGuy]

Sigh... Again, it's not so complicated

Whether or not it's complicated isn't the issue. The movie Batman and Robin wasn't complicated, but it was still a mess.

Sometimes writers need to fudge the timeline. Talking about Hypertime inside a story makes that background process stand out in the actual story, where it shouldn't be. If the spelling of a character's name is written incorectly or has to change for some other reason, should Supertext be introduced as a universal force in a story? If someone miscolors a costume, should one of the characters start talking about Hypercolor? How long until we see Turboforeshadowing and Metaplot-twisting?

Continuity gaffs and restarts happen. The fans can accept that, and on their own the gaffs don't make things that complicated. However, when you start trying to exaplain away the gaffs in the stories themselves, *that's* when things get too complicated.

Hypertime isn't much better than Superboy punching the universe. Neither of those things should exist. They're both lazy writing, and there are better ways to use things from the past.

[OM]

Take a can of silly-string, puncture it with a nail and quickly toss it in a shoe-box. The inside of that shoebox is Hypertime!...You left out one important set of ingredients: take every basic Superman or Batman action figure released since Ideal did the <I>Captain Action</i> doll - just the basic ones, not the "Superamalgamated Chase Variant with Ruby-Edged Display Stand" ones - and throw them in the box first. Then you'll get a 3-D representation of how the average Joe Punchclock could comprehend Hypertime.

Except, of course, that comic book readers are supposed to be about four magnitudes smarter than your average beer-drinking, wife-beating, football-addicted couch slug...

Telling me that there was absolutely NO Supergirl before the current one and that all their stories don't count, now that's cheating. :rolleyes: :mad: :(...Cheating? More like fraud, if you ask me. Here everyone who bought PAD's series spent 80 issues worth of $$$ - which was what? about $400 or so off the stands, not counting sub discounts? - and now we're told that their support was a waste of time and money, and not only is the book they liked cancelled, the character herself no longer exists as they knew and appreciated her, and has in fact been an "imposter" and the **REAL** Supergirl is the one they should be throwing support behind.

I dunno, kids...after reading the latest issue of the current spin on Kara, and seeing as how confusing the whole mess is One Yecch Later, I'm starting to develop the opinion that someone needs to get PAD on the book and save it before it's too late...

[Snowspinner]

Why do you need legacy?

and...
Rather what the characters and books were. What were they doing two decades ago.


I need legacy, and memory of what went on two decades ago because there's been 840 issues of Action Comics since Superman first appeared. And when you have that kind of history, I don't think you can get away with reinventing the wheel. I think the history does become important.


I don't intend this to be a battle. I only want to show you that there are two sides to every coin. You prefer DC, a bunch of books deeply rooted in their history. There's nothing wrong with that. I prefer Marvel, a bunch of books that are progressive, that actually move things forward to avoid staleness. Nothing wrong with that either, I hope.

I'm agreeing with you - my point is that, in the end, it is a debate between two valid and defensible editorial strategies.

[farwell3d]

I don't agree with everything Didio says/does, but, at the end of the day, he's doing something right.

3-4 years ago, I was reading two DCU books (Catwoman and Gotham Central) and one Wildstorm book (Sleeper) against 12-15 Marvel books, and a few indy books

Right now, my list is at 11 books. Runaways is the lone non-DC book on the list (with Criminal soon to be added. Also, I read Daredevil and Captain America in trades, and a few other Marvel things for free at B&N) Now, part of that is obviously money, as I've pared my list from 20 books a month to 11, but DC is putting out things I want to read right now. Sure, I'm annoyed with GL. And Connor Kent was my favorite DCU character. And Flash is just flat out bad... But Superman, Action, Batman, and Detective Comics have quite possibly the strongest teams to all be there at the same time in history. Ion is incredible. All-Star Superman is so much fun. LOSH is my favorite book on the stands right now. Green Latern Corps has stunned me with how good it's been. Teen Titans, despite having killed off my second favorite DC book of the 90's/early 200's (YJ) is really good.

Now, if only we could get the Supergirl that was actually interesting back...

[ootah]

It seems like everytime Didio speaks, he has to praise Morrison. Enough is enough, man!

[Michael Heide]

I need legacy, and memory of what went on two decades ago because there's been 840 issues of Action Comics since Superman first appeared. And when you have that kind of history, I don't think you can get away with reinventing the wheel. I think the history does become important.
I agree that it would disrupt the flow if a new issue directly contradicts an old one if it's something important (like, meet the Doom Patrol for the first time. They are similar to the Doom Patrol we've read about for years, but those stories are not considered continuity anymore. Beast Boy? Ah, figure it out yourself...).
But you don't need constant references to "Say, this tape recorder reminds me of how Lois first met Superman, which led to him telling her his secret, which made it even worse for him when he got killed by Doomsday. But he came back, grew his hair out, they married and then he transformed into an energy being and even split in two."
Every editor should find a balance between the former and the latter.

Whether or not it's complicated isn't the issue. The movie Batman and Robin wasn't complicated, but it was still a mess.

Sometimes writers need to fudge the timeline. Talking about Hypertime inside a story makes that background process stand out in the actual story, where it shouldn't be. If the spelling of a character's name is written incorectly or has to change for some other reason, should Supertext be introduced as a universal force in a story? If someone miscolors a costume, should one of the characters start talking about Hypercolor? How long until we see Turboforeshadowing and Metaplot-twisting?
That's never been the purpose of Hypertime.
Hypertime originally was introduced as a tool to explain how, for example, characters from the DCU could cross over to the Wildstorm universe and vice versa. It allowed team-ups between Kingdom Come characters and the regular Justice League. In a way, it's the modern equivalent to the old DC Multiverse. Only that instead of different earths, you had different timelines. And Hypertime was the one place from which all timelines could be accessed.

[SpyGuy]

It seems like everytime Didio speaks, he has to praise Morrison. Enough is enough, man!

DiDio needs to keep Morrison happy, because Grant's involvement gives these projects a considerable amount of "street cred" with fans. Morrison's upcoming WildStorm work is a good example...I normally wouldn't have picked up WILDCATS on a dare, but with Morrison writing, I'm really interested in checking the title out.

And going back to the Two-Year Plan with Bart, did anyone catch DiDio's DC Nation column in the back of 52 #13? On the subject of Barry Allen returning, he provided the cliffhanger-ending tease "Not yet." Anyone want to bet that a new 7-issue event called "CRISIS ON EARTH" or something is in the works for 2008? (The 70th anniversary of Superman.)

[n8twing]

I'm with everyone who supported Hypertime. It's really quite simple. AND, I always thought it let you have your cake and eat it too. EVERYTHING happened, only you dont have to ever reference it if you choose not to. But hey, all your Pre-Crisis comics do count after all.

The Superboy Punch stuff is ridiculous, especially in relation to Jason Todd. To explain Todd's return, you have to explain who SBPrime is, and why he was punching walls, etc.. CRISIS and ZERO HOUR were 'time disruptions' that changed reality. You can explain THAT in one sentence. Easy 'nuf.

And Didio dodges the question about using SBPrime in Jason's return. You didnt need to use SBPrime to print the Aparo page. That's some crazy circular logic there. That page could have been a dream sequence, easy. Or a bonus pin-up. And Jason could have been brought back by Ras, an immortal character already existing in the Bat-verse.

Bottom line, it just seems like Didio does what appeals to him as a fan, not as an objective publisher.

I'm just amazed that on one hand, Didio talks about simplying and streamlining. And on the other hand, we get the hot messes of Jason's return, the new/old/multiple Supergirls and the new convoluted Doom Patrol history. This 'simplifies'... how? Hot mess.

[S-Prime]

:D ....Read: "I'm in charge here, and I do what the f'uck I want to do, fanboy. You don't like it, tough s'hit!"

I dunno, kids. Attitudes like this make me wonder whether Didio's channeling Infantino, Shooter or Harras...:confused: :confused: :confused:

...To be honest, Dan's been so adamant, obteuse and obnoxious with regards to Hypertime that I strongly suspect he's deliberately being so in hopes that everyone will quit bugging him about it lest they *really* piss him off, and thus let it eventually be forgotten.

Sorry, Dan, but if that tactic ever worked, Tricky Dick would have been able to complete his second term, and Slick Willie would have been able to air his stogie escapades on live TV...

Speaking of oral exams:

...Are you kidding? *You* try self-fellatio in that armor! :p :p

...Ah, so *that's* why Otis wasn't in <I>Superman Returns</i>. S-Prime knocked him out of existence!

No, I didn't!:p

[S-Prime]

It seems like everytime Didio speaks, he has to praise Morrison. Enough is enough, man!


Kinda like Quesada and Bendis, huh?;)