DC and Hero Legacies

[nolanjwerner]

What do you guys think?

[SouthtownKid]

Er... Yes...?


I don't think I understand the question.

[avengingtitan]

I love it. But only with secondary characters (B and C level).

Every 10 to 20 years I'm for them switching it up. Or graduating the kids up and letting someone else take the mantle (Robin, Speedy, Wondergirl, Etc)

[md62]

If done right I like it. But some are handled so poorly it turns me off. Case in point. Current Flash: Bart has only been around a decade. Only Kid Flash for 2 years. They age him 4 years. Drastically change his personality. Drop Wally whose book WAS POPULAR! Bad change.

[farwell3d]

Yeah, they made the Bart becoming Flash change far, far too quickly. Hell, they never even really managed to make him becoming Kid Flash make sense.

[cncoyle]

What do you guys think?
You tell me first!

[kingofcities]

In general I am all for it. I love the family aspect it adds to a character or title.

They jumped the gun about 10 or so years too early with Bart Allen though.

[Excelsior!]

Not a fan of 'legacy' characters, in that to get a new one, you have to lose the previous one (see Barry/Wally/Bart Ted/Jaime, Hal/Kyle, etc.).

So many people (including, I suspect, many working at DC) defend this with the old excuse "it's been going on since the Silver Age". Rubbish! Hal Jordan, Barry Allen and co. weren't created to 'replace' Alan Scott and Jay Garrick, even though they weren't active in comics at the time. Nor did the Golden Age heroes need killing off in order to facilitate the newbies - they were simply left in limbo, out of the way temporarily, but with an easy get-out clause to bring them back.

Why the same couldn't be done nowadays is beyond me. Look at the new Atom - he's technically a replacement for Ray Palmer, but Ray's only 'disappeared', not 'dead with his brains in a separate doggie bag'. It wouldn't take much to bring him back AND keep Ryan Choi, with the elder Atom acting as mentor to the younger hero. Hell, that's one of the joys of the JSA - the idea of a true 'legacy', with the veterans helping to teach the next generation of heroes.

Plus, the problem 'promoting' some characters is that it ruins their development. Bart's progression from Impulse to Kid Flash was a milestone for the character, yet without fundamentally changing his personality. His recent 'upgrade' to be the new Flash, complete with senselessly aging the character, has removed what made the him unique, and instead just turned him into a poor man's Wally West. And all because "a Flash 'needs' to 'die' in a Crisis". :rolleyes:

In short, I love Superhero families - Superman, Supergirl, Superboy, etc. are all welcome. Maybe it's because I love analogues - for the same reason, I really dig Bizarro, Catman, Reverse-Flash, etc. So it kinda ticks me off when I have to lose one to get another - I like having my cake and eating it, thanks!! ;)

[MoneyMelon]

Only if they're written well.

[AdamYJ]

I think they're cool. Sometimes their presence can help readers get a new start on a character. For example, I always liked the Green Lantern concept, but none of the characters particularly stuck out as a favorite. Then, Kyle Rayner came along. Also, I've never been a fan of the Atom, but after the first issue I'm digging this Choi guy.

[Uchiha_Prodigy]

Didnt I just do a thread on this?

Anyway, I like them if theyre done right. Superman's legacy needs to get on some kindve track. They cant keep a Supergirl for more than 5 years at a time, and they can never decide if Clark was ever Superboy. The Flash legacy seems to be on the right track, "keeping it in the family" so to speak. But I agree, killing a Flash at every Crisis is just lame. So Barry and Wally didnt "technically" die, but they still arent going to be seen any time soon.

The Hawkman legacy is another one that DC cant seem to keep straight. The current Carter Hall seems to have fixed that problem, but Im really wondering how long it can stay on track. The one DC has nailed is the Batman family, well minus Batgirl and Batwoman. All the Bat-family really needs is Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson, Alfred, Barbra Gordon, and possibly Commisioner Gordon. They cant seem to keep the whole Batgirl/woman situation straight at all.

I wouldnt really call Green Lantern a family since none of them are connected. There's a thing called the Green Lantern Corps, so it really doesnt matter who the GL is.

[Caramuru]

Nothing like legacy to remind us that we are buying stories about brand names first, characters second.

[kingofcities]

Nothing like legacy to remind us that we are buying stories about brand names first, characters second.

:rolleyes:

[chap22]

Nothing like legacy to remind us that we are buying stories about brand names first, characters second.
yeah, that whole Starman series was all about pushing a brand name....:rolleyes:

[kingofcities]

yeah, that whole Starman series was all about pushing a brand name....:rolleyes:

Yeah, and Wally West was the New Coke of superheroes.

[chap22]

Yeah, and Wally West was the New Coke of superheroes.


actually, if you said the current version of Bart Allen is the New Coke of superheroes, i would be tempted to agree...:o :(

[kingofcities]

actually, if you said the current version of Bart Allen is the New Coke of superheroes, i would be tempted to agree...:o :(


Nah, he's being written poorly. Not the same thing as being created just to push a brand name. ;)

[SuperSonGoku]

Legacy characters can be ok at some times, but for the most parts I'm not a fan

[Caramuru]

yeah, that whole Starman series was all about pushing a brand name....:rolleyes:

I think Starman is very overrated, but I'm willing to say that there are exceptions.

But mostly it's about brand names.

[God-Man]

I love the generational aspect of DC Comics. Having former sidekicks grow up to become equal(at least in theory) to their former mentors gives the comics a sense of history and foward movement that I like reading in comics.

[chap22]

I think Starman is very overrated,


you sir, have just lost all credibility in my eyes. :p

[Caramuru]

you sir, have just lost all credibility in my eyes. :p

I already feel like a pariah for not thinking Starman is brilliant. :(

:p

[chap22]

I already feel like a pariah for not thinking Starman is brilliant. :(

:p
as well you should, you heretic!!:p

seriously though, have you read the whole thing, or did you get turned off of it early on? because i gotta say i just went back and re-read Grand Guignol a couple days ago and it was even better than it was the last time i read it. ;) seeing how well Robinson tied together so much seemingly disparate stuff into one moving story just amazes me -- i can't imagine how much time he must have put in to plotting out this story on the front end, a story he was never guaranteed he'd ever even be able to tell.

[cncoyle]

But mostly it's about brand names.Hourman?
Mr. Terrific?
Dr. Mid-Nite?
Atom?
Liberty Belle? (based on JSoA preview)
Phantom Lady?

Those may be trademarked names, but they're hardly "brand names".

[Caramuru]

as well you should, you heretic!!:p

seriously though, have you read the whole thing, or did you get turned off of it early on? because i gotta say i just went back and re-read Grand Guignol a couple days ago and it was even better than it was the last time i read it. ;) seeing how well Robinson tied together so much seemingly disparate stuff into one moving story just amazes me -- i can't imagine how much time he must have put in to plotting out this story on the front end, a story he was never guaranteed he'd ever even be able to tell.

I must have read the first 4 or 5 TPBs. I keep meaning to get the rest, but it is not high in my list of priorities.

I don't think it's a bad comic, though. Some of the issues are pretty good. But I do think the quality of the stories is inconsistent, and there are a few problems with the writing and characters, concept and execution, that keeps me from thinking it is a great comic, as most people do. Still, I have to give Robinson props for at least trying to do something different.

[Caramuru]

Hourman?
Mr. Terrific?
Dr. Mid-Nite?
Atom?
Liberty Belle? (based on JSoA preview)
Phantom Lady?

Those may be trademarked names, but they're hardly "brand names".

Well, they are brand names. DC owns them.

The reason why anyone (who is not a comic book fan) would want to take on the identity of a dead/retired super-hero, or to be called the same name your father was called if you went into the same line of business, is a lot more plausible as an external editorial decision than it is as a reflection of real human behavior.

Not to say that there aren't plausible examples. I think Wally West was probably the best realization of that concept. The Green Lanterns have a great excuse for it. The JSA and others... I don't know. I really like those characters but I think they only work from the point of view of a comic book reader whose fantasies of becoming their favorite heroes are realized by proxy, seeing other fictional characters taking on the role of their favorite heroes.

[carl kolchak]

Rubbish! Hal Jordan, Barry Allen and co. weren't created to 'replace' Alan Scott and Jay Garrick, even though they weren't active in comics at the time. Nor did the Golden Age heroes need killing off in order to facilitate the newbies - they were simply left in limbo, out of the way temporarily, but with an easy get-out clause to bring them back.


Good point. About legacies, well not a big fan. I think any character can be revised, added to and built upon. Just hitting the reset button always seems to bring in the same problems: insecurity, awkwardness, having to pay the rent, being too "street" and edgy. Robinson's Starman was the exception. Wally always seemed to fall into this category until Mark Waid forced him to grow up. If some writer out there can avoid making everyone of these characters a Peter Parker-lite then I'd be more accepting.

[nolanjwerner]

Stupid ____ing board.

I wanted to put a poll in and I cancelled it. I had no idea this thread actually posted.

I'm actually going to close this one and post a new one with a poll I had wnated to put up with this.

Sorry about that guys.