Robin #151 (Spoilers)

[Zechs]

Written by: Adam Beechen
Art by: Freddie E. Williams II




I hate you.

God I hate you.


To that I say to the DC Batman Editors. So um what was the whole point of this entire arc? Let see, um your whole point was making Cassie Cain a credible villain right? Well guess what.. YOU FAILED!!!! God, I can't believe how stupid this arc was. It started off great, turned really great, then the reveal came and it went to hell.

As for the point this arc was supposed to make Cassie a villain right? So all she has going for her is killing off Nyssa Al Ghul? I mean she could have gotten some brownie bad guy points for killing David Cain but come on.. I saw this coming a mile away since last issue. And sure enough David Cain isn't dead and escaped. And Cassandra? Possibly dead. Hopefully for good. I never want to see this version of her EVER again. This was the worst and I mean WORST character assassination I've seen in a DC comic book. Can I borrow that shredder that someone used on his Bruce Jones Nightwing comics? I want them to shred these Robin issues too.

Ok, if there is but one positive in this entire issue.. it's the next arc with Capt. Boomarang. I wanted to see this happen after Identity Crisis and it's finally going down. Also we have a new vigilante try to strike fear in the hearts of the criminal mind. :rolleyes:

Also the art is great. So yeah that's about all I have to say.

Story: F
Overall Story Arc: D+
Art: A

[Clem]

I liked Cass as Batgirl for the most part, up until about issue 50 or so, but since then her story has been kinda played out and she's lacked purpose.

When you think about it in the big picture, Cass believing in killing isnt too much of a shock. She was raised in silence to maim and murder by a certified psycho. She became a homeless teenage runaway living in the abandoned streets of No Mans Land Gotham. She got taken in by another passive aggressive psycho who drafted her into his own personal war on crime. Best friend brutally slain by one of Batman's rogues who could have been eliminated 10 times over. She's given a city to protect, only to run off, leaving the city defenseless to a nuclear explosion, killing all her friends. She finds out that her mother is ANOTHER certified psycho assassin, who she then fights to the death and snaps her neck.

Any of that sound like the upbringing of a SANE person? Just be lucky that she hasnt turned on the heroes yet, theyd all be dead in an hour flat.

[Zechs]

.

Best friend slain by one of Batman's rogues who could have been eliminated 10 times over.


Lesile Thompkins is a Batman Rogue? Or are you in denial of another bad character move ;)

[Cloudstrife]

If you hated it then i would love it
:cool:

[Zechs]

If you hated it then i would love it
:cool:

If that's the comic you cherish most. Then give me the pleasure of taking it away. :p

[Clem]

Lesile Thompkins is a Batman Rogue? Or are you in denial of another bad character move ;)

Technically speaking Black Mask was the one who inflicted the wounds that killed Spoiler. Leslie just didnt take action when she should have.

Although you are right, making Leslie Thompkins into a villain is a whole new low for the comic book industry. If you cant even trust frail old women, no wonder Bruce went off the deep end and created OMAC.

[Zechs]

Technically speaking Black Mask was the one who inflicted the wounds that killed Spoiler. Leslie just didnt take action when she should have.

Although you are right, making Leslie Thompkins into a villain is a whole new low for the comic book industry. If you cant even trust frail old women, no wonder Bruce went off the deep end and created OMAC.


True, but the wounds could have been treated by Lesile. She had much to do with Steph's death as Black Mask did. And yes your quite right, which is another new low for DC to do this to Cassie is all I'm saying. It's exactly the same thing.

[Clem]

True, but the wounds could have been treated by Lesile. She had much to do with Steph's death as Black Mask did. And yes your quite right, which is another new low for DC to do this to Cassie is all I'm saying. It's exactly the same thing.

With Leslie, i refuse to believe that she was the only Doctor working in a packed clinic, im betting she just made a conscious decision not to associate with the capes and left Spoiler be for someone else to attend to.....only they didnt. Its not like Leslie stood over her bed laughing maniacly. I blame the hack writer. If i had a chance, id retcon it immediately.

With Cassie, i dont like the road shes gone down, but looking at her history makes it seem almost like an inevitability. Im not sure i agree with her portrayal as bitter and b*tchy about Cain having raised another daughter or how eloquent she sounded in her argument to Tim. I like the League Of Assassins angle, but he doesnt have the characterisation locked yet. Im betting he didnt read the 70 odd back issues of Cassie's book, he just got a company mandate of "Cass is evil, leads the League and comes looking for Tim, now go scribble...".

I dont blame the writer so much as i do DC. They could have happily continued publishing Cass' Batgirl, but instead they took her down a darker path, hoping she could become a better villain for Tim.

[BatWolverine]

With Leslie, i refuse to believe that she was the only Doctor working in a packed clinic, im betting she just made a conscious decision not to associate with the capes and left Spoiler be for someone else to attend to.....only they didnt. Its not like Leslie stood over her bed laughing maniacly. I blame the hack writer. If i had a chance, id retcon it immediately.

With Cassie, i dont like the road shes gone down, but looking at her history makes it seem almost like an inevitability. Im not sure i agree with her portrayal as bitter and b*tchy about Cain having raised another daughter or how eloquent she sounded in her argument to Tim. I like the League Of Assassins angle, but he doesnt have the characterisation locked yet. Im betting he didnt read the 70 odd back issues of Cassie's book, he just got a company mandate of "Cass is evil, leads the League and comes looking for Tim, now go scribble...".

I dont blame the writer so much as i do DC. They could have happily continued publishing Cass' Batgirl, but instead they took her down a darker path, hoping she could become a better villain for Tim.
Its all being done to shave...uh, pave the road for Les-Bat or better known as Batwoman.

After all, with an established character like Cassie still in the 'Batgirl' series/mantle, (I) don't think that Ms. Publicity Stunt would hold attention for more than a few seconds.

The same is being done to Dick/Nightwing to push up Jason 'No.2' Todd and Cheyenne 'Oh, see my boobies' Freemont (or whatever her last name is).

PS: The #2 for JT is for his being Robin 2, Red Hood 2, Nightwing 2. Who knows what else #2 will he become next? Maybe go in for gender re-assignment surgery and try to flich Karen Starr by becoming Power Girl 2.

BW

[renodakota]

I liked it, just as I liked the issues before it. Never read Batgirl, so I couldn't really care less what DC does with her character. However, I think the upper brass miscalculated by turning her into a villain - they underestimated fan loyalty to the character, aiming to deliver a good ol' fashioned Shocking Twist. The plan backfired because a) a lot of people apparently care about Cass, and b) those that don't care (like me) have no real reason to be shocked by her turn.

That said, I hate to see people dumping on this book - Cassie fans have every right to be upset over a betrayal of her character, but it seems like they're overlooking the fact that Beechan is doing a pretty good job overall. I think the next arc will help ease some of the grumbling - and hey, I wouldn't be at all surprised if DC turned Cassie back to the side of good before long, especially given all the backlash.

Also, Williams is the best Robin artist since Pete Woods - here's hoping he hangs around for a while.

[Palm Trees]

I looked through the issue in the store: no clones or mind control or evil twin that went to the Manga Khan school of villain monologing. So I left it on the shelf and that's the end of Robin for me.

Does Robin have the highest mortality rate for supporting characters, family and friends in all of comics? I kinda think he does. Lost his father, step mom, all his school friends, every girlfriend he ever had (although one might still be around as an undead sorceress) and his best friend Connor. Tim Drake has the touch of death. Ravager should count her lucky stars he wasn't interested in her crazy ass or she'd be dead by now too :)

Its all being done to shave...uh, pave the road for Les-Bat or better known as Batwoman.

After all, with an established character like Cassie still in the 'Batgirl' series/mantle, (I) don't think that Ms. Publicity Stunt would hold attention for more than a few seconds.


I do think Batwoman had a role in getting rid of Cass, but not because she would detract attention away from the new character. There can only be one pair of Bat-boobs in the world and the hot lesbo gets to have them. Whether Cass went evil or not, lipstick lesbian with a Bat in her name still makes headlines and no one outside a comic shop knows that Batgirl still isn't Barbara Gordon.

[bluebird]

When you think about it in the big picture, Cass believing in killing isnt too much of a shock...

You don't think so? The shock and guilt of killing a man, even though he was a piece of crap of a human being, at age 8 was enough to make her run away from the only home she'd ever known and wander the world as a homeless runaway for 9 years.

Taken under Oracle and Batman's wings, she's given a new purpose in life, believing so strongly in the sanctity of life that she even broke up a state execution once. She felt so quilty, she had a death wish which didn't go away until she was actually killed and brought back to life.

She finds out her mother was exactly who she and evreyone else expected, and was offered the role of leader of the LEague of Assassins, something she didn't want so bad that she fought to the death to escape. Brought back to life AGAIN, she and Shiva have one more fight to the death, where she returns the favor of killing and resurrecting her mom: Yeah, she broke her neck, but then dangled her over a pit that brings people back to life.

In this arc, she turns around and decides, "Oh wait, I DO want to be the leader of the League of Assassins." One year later, she talks, acts, dresses completely differently than she did before.

It's not Leslie Thompkins bad--she was a DOCTOR who held her convictions for, what, 50 years of her life?--whereas Cassie was a violent vigilante who was only 17ish, but this is right up there.

[caleb]

Hey gang. I don't normally frequent the review boards and, when I do, I try not to post, but this week I really needed to see if I was the ONLY one who was, um, less than enthused about DC's new direction for Cassandra Cain.

Guess not, huh?

I agree with what a lot of you are saying, and I actually would have preferred a spectacular death to a character assasination like this, but of all the questions this arc rasied and didn't answer, the thing I found most puzzling is this: why did Beechen and the Bat-office resurrect Robin’s dead martial artist femme fatale Lynx in the “New Earth” continuity rejiggering of Infinite Crisis just to kill her off again, and then turn Cassandra Cain into a martial artist femme fatale for Robin? (http://everydayislikewednesday.blogspot.com/2006/06/weekly-haul-june-21st.html) (Apologies in advance for pimping my blog, but it saves re-typing).

Oh well, in 20 more years they'll reboot continuity again, and maybe this story won't ever have even happened...

[CJB]

Its all being done to shave...uh, pave the road for Les-Bat or better known as Batwoman.

After all, with an established character like Cassie still in the 'Batgirl' series/mantle, (I) don't think that Ms. Publicity Stunt would hold attention for more than a few seconds.



Then thank God for publicity stunts.

[gwangung]

I liked it, just as I liked the issues before it. Never read Batgirl, so I couldn't really care less what DC does with her character. However, I think the upper brass miscalculated by turning her into a villain - they underestimated fan loyalty to the character, aiming to deliver a good ol' fashioned Shocking Twist. The plan backfired because a) a lot of people apparently care about Cass, and b) those that don't care (like me) have no real reason to be shocked by her turn.

That said, I hate to see people dumping on this book - Cassie fans have every right to be upset over a betrayal of her character, but it seems like they're overlooking the fact that Beechan is doing a pretty good job overall.

Sorry, but this horrible bit of craft just means he's doing a TERRIBLE job. You can't glide by when the motivation for your main antagonist is such a piece of crap writing--it brings everything else crashing down.

I don't sweat the small stuff....but this hackwork is major. And the really STOOPID thing is that there's easily three or four ways to get the end result without doing such butchery on character and motivation.

It's like these writers are learning their writing from other comic books and not from real life, or even books and movies.

[renodakota]

The thing is, I'm not convinced that Cassie's motivation was entirely Beechan's doing - and even if it was, I liked the rest of his work here. Her big "why I'm doing this" explanation WAS hacky and ill-concieved, but I just thought that was a stumble in an otherwise entertaining story. The rest of the dialogue and plotting were good for the most part (certainly not "terrible"), which gives me reason to believe that the rest of Beechan's run will be good stuff, though all the Batgirl fanatics will have jumped ship already. Their loss.

[bluebird]

No, making Batgirl evil wasn't entirely Beechen's doing. I remember him saying in his interview with Newsarama when first getting the gig that the first story arc was in place when he came on, and editorial wanted him to get a few things done in that first arc, but after that it would be all him...I remember him telling Matt that issue #5, the captain boomerang jr. story would be like his first issue on the series...

It's a shame the first four were so bad, as I like the art on Robin and like the way Beechen described his view of Robin in that same Newsarma interview, but the writing on this arc, not just the fact that he made Cassandra Cain an evil killer all of a sudden, marks him as a writer who doesn't know the Bat-characters (listen to Batgirl TALK for God's sake...why would Robin NOT call Batman for help here?!) at all. For a DCU series like this, continuity is just as important as craft. I plan to read #5 out of a desire to see someone finally follow up on the fact that Robin's father dide in IC, but unless it's the greatest issue of ROBIN ever written, I can't imagine sticking with the series to try #6 too..

[Regulator]

Aside from how much I dislike what is being done to Cassandra, Robin himself has been written like a tool the last two issues. The "Send 'em all, Cassandra!" followed by the intervention chase was so retarded.

[Cerebus]

I was surprised reading the reviews that more people didn't like this Robin arc. Now I never purchased Batgirl either but I thought this issue was quite entertaining. Robin trying to clear his name...Being set up...Batgirl turns...Cane training more people..Captain Boomerang's kid back. I don't think I cared enough about Cassandra to dislike the fact that she is a villian now. Sometimes shakeups are good...I think this one was. I liked it. The art is excellent as well.
Story B+
Art A

[dantebk]

I'm dropping this series, sorry... I was excited about it in principle, but this storyarc bombed for me and my wallet won't allow second chances. Cassandra was one of the few characters I actually had an affection for (mostly I just follow writers I like) and now she's all bass ackwards.

I just find it hard to believe this is supposed to be a credible evolution of a character who not too long ago was willing to do literally anything to prevent literally anyone's death (remember "Nobody Dies Tonight" in her old series?)

Feh on the new Cassandra. And feh on this series.

FEH I SAY

[poetdowns]

It was totaly out of character for Cass, completely against her nature. Bruce is going to be crushed.

Poet

[CMFD_GLC]

This book has been sick since Beechen took over! Cass was another boring character dressed like Batman which i had enough of. Now she's badass and reminds me of Elektra and the Hand. Awesome. Also, I hate when people claim that certain actions are "out of character". Just because a person acts one way for a certain amount of time doesn't mean they're cemented in that way. Enough with the whining about Reed Richard's, Stark and Cass!

[elias_A]

I am not sure if I really want this discussion to start all over again, since we have to wait for the Teen Titans arc to see what Cass will be like in the future, but I guess this is an opportunity to look back at Robin 151 a bit calmer, with some emotional distance.

First, Cass/Batgirl was/is my favorite character, but I can understand people who prefer her as an "kick-@$$ villain".

But: The comparison with Reed/Stark in Civil War is not correct, because they will surely be portrayed as heroes again, in some years, by different authors.
We Batgirl fans, however, have probably lost this character- which had her own series! - for good.

And, the important point: After the end of batgirl, most of us expected Cass to become an anti-hero and start killing. This was not what shocked us.
What shocked us was that Cass was treated without dignity.

She should be a cool, serious, really intimidating villain! With a pragmatic philosophy about killing which Robin should not find so easy to reject- like Gabrych made Nyssa talk to Cass in Batgirl.
But this character here is just ridiculous, not dangerous at all, and using idiotic schemes- does she seriously expect to make Robin accept killing by forcing him to kill her father?

You could say that she acts like this because she is crazy, maybe even a tortured soul secretly crying out for help.
But Beechen made it impossible to seriously consider the motives/emotions of his Cassandra, because of the really unforgivable and insulting thing he introduced:
Annalea.
To retcon all of Cass' backstory, forget everything we knew and loved about the way she dealt with the world, just to make her new chief motivation a petty, melodramatic hate for as yet unknown sister (totally ignoring her previous relation to her father) could just not be taken seriously by Batgirl fans like me.

I guess if you did not identify with Batgirl in her series before, the way Beechen changed the character will not appear so important or radical to you, but believe me, I would compare it with Superman becoming an alcoholic and raping Lois.

And: Was she really an interesting villain in Robin 151? I don't think so.
And even if yes, couldn't they just create a new girl-ninja-villain, instead of ruining a character for cheap shock-tactics?