Updated: YOUTH QUAKE: Big Changes to DC's Youngsters

[MichaelDoran]

<font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/DC/Titans_YJ_ale.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/DC/Titans_YJ_ale_t.jpg" border="0" alt="Titans/Young Justice: Graduation Day by Ale Garza" align="right" width="175" height="262"></a>If one of the constants of youth is change, then DC’s plans for two of its ‘younger heroes’ books shouldn’t be that much of a surprise. Early next year Young Justice and The Titans will both come to an end. But don’t think of it as so much of a “goodbye” as a “so long for now”, because come next summer, the youngsters of the DCU will be back as strong as ever.

The changes will begin with The Titans/Young Justice: Graduation Day, a three-issue prestige format mini-series written by newly-exclusive DC writer Judd Winick and Gen 13 artist Alé Garza.

“When a mysterious woman from the future makes an explosive entrance at a S.T.A.R. Labs site, it results in the death of one of the founding members of the Teen Titans,” reads DC’s description of the series. “Can either team carry on, knowing that they might have somehow prevented this tragedy?”

“This the end, the death knell for the Titans and Young Justice,” said Winick. “This is where it all goes down. The two teams get involved in a battle against a common enemy. A lot people are going to get hurt. Graduation Day comes down three issues of a tremendous amount of fighting and property damage.

“But it’s also the catalyst for two new teams, helping define some of the line-ups and setting up the motivation for each team.”

“Teens have to grow up. This will lead to their going to the next level, becoming a new team,” said editor Eddie Berganza, specifically of one of the defunct teams, Young Justice.

This mini-series then leads directly into two new series: Teen Titans and Outsiders, which will both debut with 40-page issue #1’s at the price of a standard DCU 22-pager.

Teen Titans will feature the creative team of writer Geoff Johns and artist Mike (Exiles) McKone.

<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/DC/RRP/Teticv1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/DC/RRP/Teticv1_t.jpg" border="0" width="175" alt="TEEN TITANS by Mike McKone" height="263" align="left"></a>“This is like a dream project for Geoff,” said Berganza. “He’s told me the first year’s storyline, and it’s amazing. You won’t believe what he has planned.”

One thing the publisher does ask you to believe it the new team’s line-up, because they’ve already revealed it. The new series will star former YJ'ers Robin, Wonder Girl, Superboy and Impulse, along with former Titans Beast Boy, Cyborg, Starfire and Raven, though Johns tells Newsarama that won’t be the teams’s complete final line-up.

“I chose these characters specifically because, most of them are DC's new generation of teens (Superboy, Robin, etc.) and the others are favorite characters of mine, ones I gravitate toward,” Johns said, adding the line-up’s sort-of ‘resemblance-with-a-twist’ to Wolfman & Perez’ classic New Teen Titans line-up was both intentional and coincidence.

“Why Starfire and Cyborg (not teens) are present will all be explained in the book. And you'll be seeing a different kind of Raven. Plus we have some big plans for Superboy. “

Johns said his approach will be similar to that of JSA - the best of the old and new, but in a different way…“And we’re all shooting for and will be working very, very hard to retain the history while still making this one of DC's most accessible books,” he promised.

The writer also made a point to say Teen Titans will be very different than JSA and his other superhero team book, Marvel’s Avengers.

And speaking of other books, asked what impact this new series will have on his schedule - which currently includes those other two team books (though JSA is co-written with David Goyer), Hawkman, The Flash and your various specials and limited series - Johns responded, “No worries on my part. I write about a book a week, I give everything I do 100%-plus, and I pride myself on being early. Additionally, the Teen Titans doesn't start until July 2003. I'm extremely excited about all the characters I work with and I love spending my days writing.”

The writer went on to say Teen Titans is going to be an “action-filled character-focused book”, with stories revolving around the “fun and horror of being a teenage superhero”.

“There will be real threats [according to DC, Deathstroke the Terminator, Brother Blood, and the Scarecrow!], there will be consequences for their mistakes (because they do make them, even Robin) and we'll be turning these characters on their heads,” said Johns, who expressed his love for writing kids. “Issue #1 alone will feature a major revelation for one of them.

”The greatest thing about writing kids, like Jakeem Thunder and Star Spangled Kid in JSA, is that they do learn, they do evolve and grow.”

As to that other new superteam book being born out of Graduation Day, that would be Judd Winick and Tom Raney’s Outsiders.

<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/DC/RRP/Outsidersnew.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/DC/RRP/Outsidersnew_t.jpg" width="175" height="267" border="0" alt="THE OUTSIDERS by Tom Raney - click to open larger version" align="right"></a>“These new Outsiders may not fight the glamorous battles. They may not make the front page or the evening news. But these 20-something heroes are where they need to be, taking on threats no one else will!” reads DC’s description of the series.

Editor Eddie Berganza quickly pointed out this series doesn’t have much to do with the old Outsiders series, besides one character and some superficial connections.

“Judd is good at doing really different stories, and that’s something that we really want to explore,” said the editor.

Though like Johns (not wanting to give away too much information too soon), Winick told us three basic things about this new series and team:

1.) He wants to make it a great ‘jumping on’ book, i.e. you will have never had to have read any other DC titles before to understand it.

“As a reader, you won’t turn a page and see a villain you've never heard of and are supposed to ‘gasp’ by the sight of,” said Winick. “I will be delving heavily into the past, but it's going to play both ways. If you're a nut for continuity and like a nod to the past, you'll be happy. If not, don't worry, this book will hit all the right chords.”

2.) The book will feature a “new twist” on the old team book concept.

“These guys are not the JLA,” said the writer. “And the basic twist on it, they aren’t as the ol’ expression goes, ‘firefighters … running around and putting out fires’. They will be hunters. They’re going after the bad guys before the trouble starts.”

3.) The premise of the book is as simple as its title. book be filled very unusual characters that don't fit in with the rest of the DCU – outsiders. They are all atypical for one reason or another. Either by choice or by design or by their very nature.

“Each of them has a different reason for being an “Outsider”, said Winick, who also said this series is pretty much a “fresh start” and not connected to the previous Outsiders. “Each of them has their own cross to bear.”

As to who the “them” are, if you haven’t figured it out by the preview image above, the writer filled us in on his line-up…

“The team is lead by Nightwing,” he said. “Dick’s in charge.”

“I'd say that's there's a symmetry to having Nightwing head up the team,” replied Winick, asked if it was Nightwing’s connection to Batman – and therefore the original Outsiders - that led to that choice. “There’s also an irony for Dick … the last thing he really wants to become is like Batman. But it's not working out very well.”

Winick added the promised, “death of the founding Teen Titan” is not Nightwing’s motivation for leading the team, and Berganza added it takes Arsenal to pull him back in and make him a leader.

“We’ve also got Arsenal,” continued Winick, who said he will also use Roy when he takes over Green Arrow only if plans don't conflict with Outsiders.

“Which is easy since I write both books,” he said with a grin.

“We have Jade who I’m bringing over from Green Lantern, Metamorpho, and three newbies … Grace, a seven-foot powerhouse who currently works security in a meta human bar. Thunder, Cassandra Pierce, daughter of Jefferson Pierce, Black Lightning, and a team member to be named after Graduation Day.” [Yes, that girl peering her heard out from behind the left of Arsenal is a seventh member, but Winick doesn’t want to talk about her yet].

“I'd say evolution is a good word for it,” concluded Winick, asked why such drastic changes were being made to DC team-book line-up. “I think the Titans out grew the title and the mantle should be passed along to a group that can bear the original name and concept.

“And the Outsiders, well … they're mostly the younger heroes in their 20's. It will reflect that more than it has before.”


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[Franklin Harris]

Great. DC comes up with two new ways to part me from my money. And buried in this news is the real kicker: Metamorpho is back as a regular in an ongoing, baby. I just hope Johns doesn't screw up Raven too much. Even given DC's annoying habit of turning heroes into villains, Raven has been treated badly in the past.

Now, on to the other news: an "original member" of the Teen Titans will die. If memory serves, there are only four original members: Robin (Dick Grayson), Kid Flash, Wonder Girl and Aqualad. (Speedy came along later, and, in any event, is accounted for as a member of the new Outsiders.) Dick is accounted for. Wally isn't going to buy it in any title other than his own. I think either Garth or Donna is in real trouble, and with Donna already replaced as Wonder Girl....

[the4thpip]

I wish they'd given Barry Kitson and Tom Peyer a chance to tell the stories they had planned for Titans. Peyer has a lot more potential as a writer than Winick, IMHO.

DC kept Färber on Titans way too long and let him drive the title into the ground. Didn't they learn anything from Aquaman?

[csGuy]

These two books sound wonderfull!
especially Outsiders.

Though i can't help but feel that they should have put Geoff with Tom Raney and Judd Winick with Mike McKone.

Its nice to FINALLY know what those 2 former artists are going to be up to...

[eleven11]

WOW, that came out of nowhere. I'll admit that I read Young Justice, (the art is prttey good, not to mention consistent.) But what remains to be seen is four or five issues into the runs. Will that energy continue? I'll support them though. 1st post!

[the4thpip]

[quote]Originally posted by Franklin Harris:
<strong>

Now, on to the other news: an "original member" of the Teen Titans will die. If memory serves, there are only four original members: Robin (Dick Grayson), Kid Flash, Wonder Girl and Aqualad. (Speedy came along later, and, in any event, is accounted for as a member of the new Outsiders.) Dick is accounted for. Wally isn't going to buy it in any title other than his own. I think either Garth or Donna is in real trouble, and with Donna already replaced as Wonder Girl....</strong><hr></blockquote>
Garth has been announced as a member of Aquaman's supporting cast a couple of weeks ago, so it's really not looking good for Donna.

[Michael K. Willis]

Both of these have excellent creative teams and I'm looking forward to them (thankfully they're taking the place of two books I'm currently reading so the impact on my wallet should be minimal :cool: )

I'm glad to see the Titans getting a real focus...the current series has floundered of late with there being little holding the team together other than they had book that had to come out every month.

And the new Outsiders sound great both in terms of characters involved and their mission.

Michael

[Tue Sorensen]

The link to the larger version of that cover image doesn't work...

This is all very exciting. I like these plans. I'll probably have to pick up both titles.

One thing: Couldn't they have chosen another permutation of the "Teen Titans" title? All those damn Teen Titans titles are hard enough to keep track of as it is.

[the4thpip]

[quote]Originally posted by eleven11:
<strong>WOW, that came out of nowhere. I'll admit that I read Young Justice, (the art is prttey good, not to mention consistent.) But what remains to be seen is four or five issues into the runs. Will that energy continue? I'll support them though. 1st post!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Out of nowhere?
85% of this has been circulating as rumors on the Titans board for months now. I wonder who's been leaking it.

[the4thpip]

[quote]Originally posted by Tue Sorensen:
<strong>The link to the larger version of that cover image doesn't work...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Worked for me.
Might be the heavy traffic. Try again.

[Robert Escandon]

The current TITANS book started out so well... but it really started to suffer when the original creative team took their leave.

Both these series sound great, and I'm fans of all four of these creators, so I'm definitely in...

Has Metamorpho appeared after JLA #1, where he dies?

[Kamandi2]

Yes, Metamorpho reappeared last year in Doom Patrol for a couple of issues.

One thing I find interesting about Teen Titans is the line-up contains all the characters that are being used in the animated Teen Titans series. I'm sure that was planned.

[Scott Wherle]

Looking forward to these books. Needed a little life in both Titans and Young Justice anyway, so I'm not overly sad to see either go in favor of these new takes. Most of my faves from both are showing up anyway, so I have little to complain about. Some quick points:

As has been said, things aren't looking good for Donna Troy, but I'd rather see Tempest go than her (though Arsenal would be my first choice for the long dirt nap).

Metamorpho just showed up recently in Doom Patrol (if I remember right), alive and well. How is the mystery...

Jay Faerber didn't screw up Titans. The inclusion of the idiotic DEO kids did, which was NOT his choice. He left the book because of it, not to mention his desire to do Noble Causes. A vastly superior book to his work on Titans.

Geoff Johns is the man. Don't know how he can focus on writing so many team books a month, but he's impressing with practically everything he touches (save Hawkman, which I'm not digging so much).

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Black Lightning was black. Those new Outsiders characters - his daughter apparently among them - look awfully white (though I can't tell for sure since the image won't supersize). Not that it matters, but I'm just curious what's up there. Guess I'll find out when I read the book, eh?

Anyhow, as I said, both books sound interesting, are by creators I enjoy, and will be replacing two books I already pick up. I have little to complain about.

Though What're Peyer and Kitson gonna do now? Peter David still has Captain Marvel, but what'll he be up to? Not the biggest Todd Nauck fan, but he doesn't suck, came from nowhere and handled the vast bulk of the YJ series. Does he have any irons in the fire?

[Sparvid]

[quote]Originally posted by Scott Wherle:
<strong>Not the biggest Todd Nauck fan, but he doesn't suck, came from nowhere and handled the vast bulk of the YJ series. Does he have any irons in the fire?</strong><hr></blockquote>Yeah, where will we get to see Todd's good looking art again?

[Joel Harris]

Mwahahaha... this is.... so.... awesome. Too good to be true. I was also surprised they paired McKone with Johns as opposed to Winick, but I won't complain. ;)

[KingStalin]

Holy crap! these books sound awesome. Well that's 2 more DC books in my stash. I'm up to 4 now. Aweosme trully awesome.

[KACH]

[quote]Originally posted by Sparvid:
<strong>Yeah, where will we get to see Todd's good looking art again?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Ditto again.

--J.

[Franklin Harris]

[quote]Originally posted by the4thpip:
<strong>
Garth has been announced as a member of Aquaman's supporting cast a couple of weeks ago, so it's really not looking good for Donna.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Of course, the story also involves time travel (i.e., a "woman from the future"). So, whoever dies might not stay dead long.

[linnen]

hmmm...i bet that the "founding member of the teen titans" who dies is someone from dan jurgens' "teen titans" book from the 1990s. i can't believe that they would kill any of the REAL founding members of the titans.

[Boink182]

Geoff Johns--Good
Mike McKone--Good
Time Drake and Impulse hanging out with Starfire and Raven--Huh?

Well...I liked the YJ roster, and I appreciate what PAD and TAN have developed in the last 4 years. I'm sad to see such a refreshing and fun title disappear.

I can just hope that Johns will include some of the characters (Secret, Empress, Slobo), supporting characters (Arrowette, Traya, Snapper), and concepts from the PAD/TAN YJ series.

[Lex]

[quote]Originally posted by Scott Wherle:
<strong>Metamorpho just showed up recently in Doom Patrol (if I remember right), alive and well. How is the mystery...
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think there will be a short story in this month's JLA/JSA Secret Files that explains how he returned.

[OM]

[quote]Originally posted by linnen:
<strong>hmmm...i bet that the "founding member of the teen titans" who dies is someone from dan jurgens' "teen titans" book from the 1990s. i can't believe that they would kill any of the REAL founding members of the titans.</strong><hr></blockquote>

...Yup. I suspect Argent bites the big one. Look at the process of elimination:

Nightwing - Off to form the Outhousers...er..Outsiders.

Arsenal - Survives the attack

Aqualad - Going to be used in Aquaman

Wonder Woman Jr - Oh come on, after they finally fixed her?

Lilith - Who cares? I'd rather have had Mal back :-P:

...That leaves the "neo-founders", Jessie Quick and Argent. Some Flash scribe will one day have the honor of killing her off, so that leaves Argent. Consider this: Argent's been on the rag since this new run started. She's even behaved unheroically, being glad that the DEO kid who took over Epsilon and kissed her got killed. If you turn to the Comics Code Authority Book of Rules, Page XM-137, it says that any hero that is glad someone who is also a hero dies, that hero must eventually either become a villain or get killed.

Which puts a final capstone on Team Titans once and for all, thank god...

[Franklin Harris]

And now the art is up, and we can see that Impulse gets a costume that makes him resemble Kid Flash (I approve; I've always hated Bart's costume) and Cassie gets a new Wonder Girl costume that looks like Donna's "New Teen Titans" Era uniform, with the addition (or is that subtraction?) of the bare midriff so popular with the kids today.

But if the first thing Raven does is use her powers to make Bart fall in love with her, I'm outta here!

[Franklin Harris]

[quote]Originally posted by OM:
<strong>...That leaves the "neo-founders", Jessie Quick and Argent. Some Flash scribe will one day have the honor of killing her off, so that leaves Argent. ...</strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't buy this "neo-founders" theory. Besides, I keep hoping Jessie Quick will one day end up where she belongs, which is in the JSA.

[KingStalin]

Wow the new image of the titans looks great. i haven't been into young justice so could someone explain why impulse is kid flash and superboy only has a shirt. maybe this is the new series designs just seems weird but mckone of course awesome art.

[Franklin Harris]

[quote]Originally posted by KingStalin:
<strong>Wow the new image of the titans looks great. i haven't been into young justice so could someone explain why impulse is kid flash and superboy only has a shirt. maybe this is the new series designs just seems weird but mckone of course awesome art.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Superboy's new not-a-costume reminds me of Iron Munroe's. Of course, Iron Munroe's link to the Titans is Damage, as I recall, but Munroe was conceived as a post-Crisis stand-in for Superman during WWII.

[paulski]

God, I hate weekends like this when a humongous heap of news comes out and I have to get through it all when my lunch hours permit. Pretty cool news this time, though.

Firstly, Titans. Or should I say 'Teen' Titans:
Hmm, can't help but think they gave up on Titans too quickly. But considering its sales position at the moment (doing Black Panther numbers ;) ), I can't say I blame them. And what an awesome relaunch. The only slightly questionable choice as a member would be Raven, but I'm sure there'll be a good reason for it. Regarding the death of the 'founding member', yeah, I read it as one of the original originals, meaning Donna's in a world of trouble. Of course, if it does turn out to be someone like Argent, I'll be relieved.

And Mike McKone? Colour me happy. :D

Outsiders, huh? At least they got a class artist on the book. I'll probably do the same thing with this title as I am with Exiles at the moment - stay with it for as long as the art justifies it. And Tom Raney certainly justifies my buying this book. Winick showed enough on Exiles to prove he is capable of writing a good team book, if not an excruciatingly bad Green Lantern, so I'll give it a good run.

Roll on 2003!

[FortressMaximus]

In all honestly I could care less about the Titans. But I hope and pray that if YJ is going to end, it's done properly and with some thought behind it. I've lost too many good books (the Power Pack revival mini that didn't go anywhere and resulted in disbanding the team (!) and New Warriors series 2 where they couldn't decide on an artist let alone a coherant plot).

And even though I'm really mad at Peter David at the moment (I took two and a half hours creating a well worded and proper e-mail with one question about YJ and he sent it back with a 10 word reply and not even a thank-you for writing) I hope he helps create a memorable ending for YJ. They deserve it.

[OM]

[quote]Originally posted by Franklin Harris:
<strong>as I recall, but Munroe was conceived as a post-Crisis stand-in for Superman during WWII.</strong><hr></blockquote>

...Iron Munro was Roy Thomas' tip-of-the-hat to Philip Wylie's Gladiator, the novel that was essentially the somewhat uncredited foundation for Superman. Munro was the son of the main character of that book, and his origin was basically a merging of Gladiator and the first Action Comics story, including the race to save an innocent man from the gas chamber scenes. It's actually some of Roy's best adaptation work, coming second only to his Thor Annual #7, where Thor & Loki get stuck during the Iliad.

[quote]Originally posted by Franklin Harris:
<strong>I don't buy this "neo-founders" theory. </strong><hr></blockquote>

...Who cares what you buy? The fact is that the founders were, and always will be, Dick, Garth and Wally, with Donna coming along followed by Roy. Anyone afterwards is a "neo-founder".

[quote]Originally posted by Franklin Harris:
<strong>Besides, I keep hoping Jessie Quick will one day end up where she belongs, which is in the JSA.</strong><hr></blockquote>

...At least we agree on this one, although I doubt it will happen anytime soon. They've already got Jay Garrick to provide the speed tricks.

[COREMARK]

Wow these books look fantastic, Metamorpho is one of my all-time faves so I've longed to see him back in action. Titans has been nothing but bad as of late so I'm glad to see the book relaunched.

[LLance]

I've never really cared for Young Justice and even a die hard like me admitts that the Titans is in serious trouble. Looking at the info given on these two new titles I can definitely see possibilities. I look eagarly forward to adding both to my comics list!

I do hope Donna is not going to be the one to die, but I have to say it looks like she's getting the axe in more ways than one. When Dick, Wally, and Garth first appeared it was listed as Robin, Kid Flash, and Aqualad...not The Teen Titans. When they reappeared it was billed as The Teen Titans and Wonder Girl was with them. In this sense she is an original member.

Hey Mr.4thPip, who is this Rob Kamphausen you so venomously speak ill of? ;)

[Rob Staeger]

[quote]Originally posted by Franklin Harris:
<strong>
Now, on to the other news: an "original member" of the Teen Titans will die. If memory serves, there are only four original members: Robin (Dick Grayson), Kid Flash, Wonder Girl and Aqualad. (Speedy came along later, and, in any event, is accounted for as a member of the new Outsiders.) Dick is accounted for. Wally isn't going to buy it in any title other than his own. I think either Garth or Donna is in real trouble, and with Donna already replaced as Wonder Girl....</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually, I think Wonder Girl came along in the groups second or third appearance. She might still be considered a founder (much the same way Captain America is often considered a founding Avenger, even though he didn't show up until issue 4), but she wasn't there at the beginning. Speedy wasn't there, either, IIRC. I think it was just Dick, Wally, and Garth. Could be wrong, tho. And certainly, any of these five could be considered the group's founding members with only a little fudging.

If it's one of the original 3, my money's on Garth. Heck, EVERYONE's money should be on Garth. Dick and Wally aren't going anywhere. But if the first five are all considered founders, I'd go with Donna. She's been revamped and revamped, and has been a continuity problem from the beginning -- before there was such a thing as a continuity problem. It's probably better for DC to just have people *miss* her, than to begin any new stories stemming from her cloudy origins.

All that said, I'm looking forward to the new Titans book. The Outsiders sounds interesting too, but I'll need a bit more convincing before it gets on my pull list.

Rob

[Captain Marvel]

This is mighty good news 'n all...

... but what I'm -really- curious about is what happens to Peter David and Todd Nau... er.. Todd "Na-ook". :)

They have fantastic chemistry on Young Justice. Where are they headed now?

[ZOD]

[quote]Originally posted by Rob Staeger:
<strong>

Actually, I think Wonder Girl came along in the groups second or third appearance. She might still be considered a founder (much the same way Captain America is often considered a founding Avenger, even though he didn't show up until issue 4), but she wasn't there at the beginning. Speedy wasn't there, either, IIRC. I think it was just Dick, Wally, and Garth. Could be wrong, tho. And certainly, any of these five could be considered the group's founding members with only a little fudging.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Donna was a founding member in the Teen Titans first official appearance in Brave & the Bold # 60. Unbeleviably I managed to track down a cover scan of it just to make sure.

http://216.150.214.165/istore/images/large/12762915872.60.gif

My guess is Donna since the other three have all been confirmed in new roles.

ZOD

[Geoff Johns]

No worries. I think you'll like our take on Raven...

Geoff

[Greenebow]

Please put Superboy in a heroic costume.

[tralfaz]

has anyone seen my wallet? Two more books from DC I must check out.

[Brian Langlois]

How can they do this!?

This is some of the worst news in comic history. What have they done to my precious Outsiders? Batman and the Outsiders is the reason I read comics, and now they're going to twist it up with the Titans and Young Justice and worst of all Judd Winick! Come on, DC, just when I thought you were getting some sense back. PLEASE DON'T DO THIS!

[Hunter]

I haven't been following the Titans of late -- is Cyborg in his old 'part-flesh' a development for the new series, or has this already happened?

[pickard]

I'm also curious where Todd Nauck will end up.

Please don't let it be Donna. Argent can go easily. No problem there. If she's not in Outsiders or Teen Titans, she'll be forgotten regardless.

I love the lineup for Teen Titans. That's as back-to-basics as a Titans title can get. And they put Impulse in the best damn costume in comics history, IMHO.

Obviously, they chose this roster to conform to the new cartoon, but I think it can work. (I'm less optimistic about the cartoon, but we'll see.)

I'll probably pass on Outsiders. As a Dick Grayson fan and a Titans fan, I'll stick with Titans and get Nightwing from his own title and his Bat-appearances.

[cncoyle]

I'm betting by "founder", they're referring to the Wolfman-Perez Teen Titans. Donna is too integral to Wonder Woman's title and she can't have another loss this soon. (C'mon, first her mom and then her sister 18 months later?) Seeing as she's screwed up beyond recognition and technically founded the W-P Teen Titans, Raven will be the one to bite the dust. The new Raven will be Secret, right Geoff?

{in best Diceman voice}Hey, that's what I tink!

[SpaceDog]

Both books should be great reads. Winick does an awesome team book, as does Johns. Finally these characters will be written with due respect. Peyer has done a stand up job on Titans, which I thought was ruined by Faerber, but these books haven't been GREAT since Wolfman stopped writing them.

[Brian Langlois]

[quote]Originally posted by Hunter:
<strong>I haven't been following the Titans of late -- is Cyborg in his old 'part-flesh' a development for the new series, or has this already happened?</strong><hr></blockquote>

This actually happened in recent issues of Flash. Vic had been working in Central City and used his liquid metal powers to make him look like his old self (only with a gold color). Something happened to him durring a recent storyline that took away his metal's liquid morphing power, basically freezing it in the form is was in (now silver). It makes no sense, but he has basically reverted to the way he used to be and its good to have him back.

[LinaStrick]

CASSANDRA Pierce? Hasn't DC learned its lesson? What does it have with all these sound-alike names for its young superheroines????

The Suzie-Cissie-Cassie-Cassie curse recently got rid of one of its members, and now picks up YET ANOTHER Cassie!!!!?

(Insert loud sound of derision.)

FYI:

Suzie is now Greta, aka Secret
Cissie is Arrowette
Cassandra is Wonder Girl
Cassandra is Batgirl
and we have Cassandra Pierce

I think that Roy is still a posiblity to be the one who dies.

DC has released fake covers in the past, like when they did Emperor Joker in the Super-books.

[Brian Langlois]

[quote]Originally posted by ManofTheAtom:
<strong>I think that Roy is still a posiblity to be the one who dies.

DC has released fake covers in the past, like when they did Emperor Joker in the Super-books.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You could be right. When I first saw that picture I thought it was Connor Hawke. They could say it's Roy, but the suit looks like Connor's. Could Connor be taking over for Arsenal? He can't be Green Arrow anymore. Too bad Kevin Smith didn't kill him off when he had the chance.

This is just dreadful news. I like Titans right now and I don't plan on buying either of these books. When is DC going to wise up?

[cncoyle]

[quote]Originally posted by Brian Langlois:
<strong>

You could be right. When I first saw that picture I thought it was Connor Hawke. They could say it's Roy, but the suit looks like Connor's. Could Connor be taking over for Arsenal? He can't be Green Arrow anymore. Too bad Kevin Smith didn't kill him off when he had the chance.

This is just dreadful news. I like Titans right now and I don't plan on buying either of these books. When is DC going to wise up?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I hope you're right about Connor--great character with plenty of potential. Roy has never had the appeal for me.
As for your opinion on Titans, I must respectfully disagree, my Memphis neighbor. I was on Titans up until about a year ago with that awful DEO kids story. I know Faerber (sp?) did his best, but that title really dropped in quality. I applaud this new direction.

[Brian Langlois]

[quote]Originally posted by cncoyle:
<strong>
I hope you're right about Connor--great character with plenty of potential. Roy has never had the appeal for me.
As for your opinion on Titans, I must respectfully disagree, my Memphis neighbor. I was on Titans up until about a year ago with that awful DEO kids story. I know Faerber (sp?) did his best, but that title really dropped in quality. I applaud this new direction.</strong><hr></blockquote>

We obviously don't agree on Connor either. I've always thought he was a total waste (like another green hero who came out at the same time). Roy would have been the only proper replacement for Ollie, but that's a moot point now. Connor should have been taken out long ago. I hope we never see him again.

As for Titans, I didn't care for the DEO kids story either, but the real recent stuff like the Drug World story have been pretty cool.

Personally, as a long time Titans fan, I couldn't hate this new direction more. I don't like the characters of Young Justice and I never have. We don't need TEEN Titans, just Titans is fine. I think they're just trying to be more like the new animated series. Also, as a long time Outsiders fan, I am outraged and insulted by this line up. BATO is my all-time favorite comic book, and I hate to see the name dragged down like this. I can't stand Winick and will be dropping Green Arrow as soon as his run begins(too bad, because Brad Metzler's run has been AWESOME!). I honestly thought DC was getting on the ball, but I see I was wrong. What are we to do now?

[StoneGold]

[quote]Originally posted by Geoff Johns:
<strong>No worries. I think you'll like our take on Raven...

Geoff</strong><hr></blockquote>

This somewhat cryptic comment would seem to play towards the rumor that Donna dies and somehow becomes Raven. Which, come to think of it, would fit Johns' MO, since he already did that bit where a non-related hero dies and becomes someone else basically with Dr. Fate in JSA, with Hec Hall getting Nabu's helmet. And it fits DC MO in general, with Hal becoming Spectre. Going to the well a bit on that gag, assuming that is what they're doing.

[Jeremy Williams]

I`ve waited for a while to have a new Titans book reclaiming their former glory. This new take and the Outsiders spin-off feels like a weird bastardisation of these concepts. The Cyborg-next generation of Titans of the 70s with the Young justice guys? Yuck! That`s artistic integrity for you! :rolleyes:

[TTROY]

Yeah My take on the whole thing is that Donna does dies and somehow either merges with raven or her soul becomes Raven....

Either way it looks like she will "die"

[MichaelDoran]

updated with new image

[Joel Harris]

Homina homina.... Mike McKone is kicking butt already. I totally dig the ol' "Kid Flash" homage on Bart there...both great pics....but that green on Robin in Ale's piece is killin' my eyes... :cool:

[egads]

What is wrong with the comic book industry? Everything is a rehash of old titles or old cartoons or stuff that sold in the 80's and 90's. Is this the stuff that is supposed to keep the industry moving? No wonder I stopped collecting comics 4 years ago. I haven't missed anything. There's a "new" Captain America title (volume 4?), there's a "new" Titans title (volume 5?). Geez, and all of the Battle of the Planets, Transformers, GI Joe, Thundercats, He-Man.....What's next? We're gonna rehash the 90's and have Extreme or Blood in every title? I
admit all of the talents mentioned are either good or great and I am a fan of many of their works, however, how about working on something we've never seen before? It's like when X-Men "changed"
directions or the creative team, sure it looks new for a couple of issues, but soon we are treated to same ol same ol, Shiar, Magneto, Brotherhood, Sentinels...blah blah. Now we have the "new" grown up Titans and the Teen Titans. Geez how much do you wanna bet each title makes it to a hundred, get canned, than a few months later we get exciting news of a "new" Titans title? Comics need to stop going backwards to try to move forward. The only way you move forward is by moving forward. Alan Moore and Frank Miller did it, I don't see why the creators of today can't.

[gwangung]

What is wrong with the comic book industry? Everything is a rehash of old titles or old cartoons or stuff that sold in the 80's and 90's. Is this the stuff that is supposed to keep the industry moving?

What's wrong with the comic book industry is, partly, the fans. They simply won't support anything from the Big Two that isn't spandex oriented...and a particular kind of spandex at that. New characters flop or die an ugly death; anything new or different usually tanks at the cash register. Look at some of the SOMEWHAT different things like Priest's take on the Panther...nobody reads it.

When people start asking what is wrong with comics, you have to start with what the readership is reading...

[beta-ray]

Hmmn... First Thunderbolts and now YJ... I am the death knell for books I guess... Oh well, maybe I can get into Johns' new book, I do like his writing. Never was much for Winick, he is okay... Kinda like Metamorpho and Jade is okay but am not interested in the rest of the characters...

Maybe I can save some money after the first few issues...

[FortressMaximus]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by beta-ray:
[QB]Hmmn... First Thunderbolts and now YJ... I am the death knell for books I guess... Oh well, maybe I can get into Johns' new book, I do like his writing.

Don't worry Beta-Ray. You aren't the deathknell for books. I am. I have lost nearly every title from Marvel and DC I ever subscribed since I started collecting comics. Everything I buy gets cancelled except the X-Crap titles. Guess even my powers have limits.

For example:

TF G1
TF g2
New Warriors I
New Warriors II
Night Thrasher
Nova (second and third series)
Cloak and Dagger
Power Pack
Quasar
Thunderstrike
GL: Mosaic
Green Lantern Corps Quartly
Power of Shazam
Darkhawk
Slingers
Battle Chasers
Guy Gardner
Damage
Impulse
Visionaries

Guess I can add YJ to the list as well.

Sigh. :/

FortressMaximus

[quote]Originally posted by StoneGold:
<strong>This somewhat cryptic comment would seem to play towards the rumor that Donna dies and somehow becomes Raven. Which, come to think of it, would fit Johns' MO, since he already did that bit where a non-related hero dies and becomes someone else basically with Dr. Fate in JSA, with Hec Hall getting Nabu's helmet. And it fits DC MO in general, with Hal becoming Spectre. Going to the well a bit on that gag, assuming that is what they're doing.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I like this.

Makes much more sense than turning the current Raven back into her old self for no reason.

[Jeremy Williams]

Posted by egads:

What is wrong with the comic book industry? Everything is a rehash of old titles or old cartoons or stuff that sold in the 80's and 90's. Is this the stuff that is supposed to keep the industry moving? No wonder I stopped collecting comics 4 years ago. I haven't missed anything. There's a "new" Captain America title (volume 4?), there's a "new" Titans title (volume 5?). Geez, and all of the Battle of the Planets, Transformers, GI Joe, Thundercats, He-Man.....What's next? We're gonna rehash the 90's and have Extreme or Blood in every title? I

Couldn`t agree with you more.

[paulski]

Couldn't disagree more. Sometimes the good old stuff is just that - good.

And this is why I'm drooling at the thought of this new TT series:

1) Mike McKone. Drool drool drool.

2) Geoff Johns. Now he's writing Flash, Hawkman, Avengers, JSA and Teen Titans?! (did I miss any?)

3) The team. Mix of the best of the old (Starfire, Cyborg, Beast Boy) with the best of Young Justice (Robin, Wonder Girl, Impulse).

4) The fact that the YJ guys have moved up to 'Titans status' while the old guys have moved on. More natural evolution in the DC universe.

5) Impulse (possibly) takes over the Kid Flash identity. Or at least the costume.

6) Beast Boy's back where he belongs.

Look, some of you guys obviously aren't fans of the Titans franchise but I can tell you there's thousands of crazies like me who can't wait until the middle of 2003 for this...

[kcekada]

Titans could have been a cool book, but it was mishandled from issue one. For a group that was once the premier super team in the DC Universe (even surpassing their founders), they came across as unskilled idiots.

I'm not crazy about mixing the Wolfman/Perez characters with the Young Justice characters--mainly because I'm not a fan of most of them. Robin's okay, and Impulse used to be okay, but Wonder Girl is a major irritant.

I can see myself giving each a book a chance, but not if it's the expense of Donna Troy. I've seen too many classic DC heroines killed or maimed.

KC

[saintdelore]

I can't believe Donna Troy is going to be killed off. Shoot! That girl has been mistreated by DC for way too long. Why can't they just retire her to Paradise Island or something? Do they REALLY have to kill her?

[mikem]

[quote]Originally posted by saintdelore:
<strong>I can't believe Donna Troy is going to be killed off. Shoot! That girl has been mistreated by DC for way too long. Why can't they just retire her to Paradise Island or something? Do they REALLY have to kill her?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Relax...if she dies, she'll come back......they ALL do ( except Bucky.)

[mikem]

I've always loved the old Kid Flash costume and glad to see that's it's back. Also, I'm happy that Superboy's costume is GONE and that he's wearing basic clothing ( but appropriately coloured in the Super-colours.)The revised Superboy costume of last year just didn't cut it.
And why did Changeling change his name back to Beast Boy ?

[manosx]

OK...Deep breaths. YJ is my favorite book, and it's going byebye. This sucks. PLEASEPLEASEPLEASE treat these guys right in Teen Titans! Draw Robin like he's 15. Keep Impulse out of the "Kid Flash" costume, he's never liked it and constantly mocks Wally whenever it comes up. Don't let Secret or Arrowette disappear forever, there is great storylines in those characters. As to who dies, I also don't want to see Donna die BUT if it's somebody I don't care about than it wouldn't be a big deal and obviously this death has to be a big deal. By the way, Beast Boy(give him back his old name please) is already a member of YJ(as is almost every teenage superhero in the DCU). And Todd, I'll mis your art. I'll miss your Robin and Impulse most of all. Get on the Robin book with PAD and you can make it the fan-favorite it once was!

[Flaming Turkey of Glory]

What is to become of Secret and Arrowette?

FToG

[shay]

I'm dissapointed to be losing Y.J I'ts the main comic I lend to younger non-comic fans when I'm trying to explain why I still read this stuff.
The 2 new titles look interesting and I'll be giving them a shot, but now that Peter David is
free any chance of getting him on the rumoured
New warriors re-launch?

[Taylor Porter]

[quote]Originally posted by shay:
<strong>... any chance of getting him on the rumoured
New warriors re-launch?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh god. I hadn't heard about that. Please, please, please let that be just a rumour.

[neverhere]

if you open the larger version of the mckone Titans cover youll notice a shadow on the floor near Impulse's feet that looks like TRIGON!!!!Im sure Geoff Johns has a a good take on how to bring Raven back but this is the one im really waiting for.And given johns track record with long lost villains im sure this could be awesome

[the4thpip]

[quote]Originally posted by LLance:
<strong>
Hey Mr.4thPip, who is this Rob Kamphausen you so venomously speak ill of? ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

I think he's a fictional character made up by Jay Färber to make the DEOrphans more interesting.

[the4thpip]

[quote]Originally posted by Scott Wherle:
<strong>


Jay Faerber didn't screw up Titans. The inclusion of the idiotic DEO kids did, which was NOT his choice. He left the book because of it, not to mention his desire to do Noble Causes. A vastly superior book to his work on Titans.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's just more of Färber's "Blame the Editor" game. He does that with pretty much every book he writes into cancellation and evey mini that gets trashed by critics.
OK, so the DEOrphans were the editor's suggestion. Not only did Färber go for it, he was also unable to turn it into an interesting story. And it's not like his Titans was anything to write home about before those brats dropped through a big plot hole into Titans Tower.

[FortressMaximus]

[quote]Originally posted by TaylorPorter:
<strong>

Oh god. I hadn't heard about that. Please, please, please let that be just a rumour.</strong><hr></blockquote>

**********I hadn't heard about that either. PLEASE let it be true! New Warriors was one of the best books EVER put out by Marvel!! It totally blew every other teen book being published at the time out of the water, Titans included.

Now if I can just get a new Power Pack series to look forward too I'll forgive Marvel for canceling all my books these past couple years!

Don F

[Scott Wherle]

[quote]Originally posted by the4thpip:
<strong>That's just more of Färber's "Blame the Editor" game. He does that with pretty much every book he writes into cancellation and evey mini that gets trashed by critics.
OK, so the DEOrphans were the editor's suggestion. Not only did Färber go for it, he was also unable to turn it into an interesting story. And it's not like his Titans was anything to write home about before those brats dropped through a big plot hole into Titans Tower.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, I won't speak for the man, but I've known him for about the last two years and heard about it LONG before he quit the book, so I take his word for it.

[Bainebridge]

Is it just me....or is Judd Winick EXTREMELY over rated??? I'm not saying that the man writes poorly, but he seems to be having accolades thrown on him for being...dare i say it...entirly mediocre.

Feel free to kick my ass over this now.

[Boink182]

Depends on what you've read from Winick...I think.

Winick's Indy stuff is better than his Marvel stuff witch is then better than his DC stuff.

Barry Ween is a lot of fun, and it cracks me up, but it still has some touching dramatic moments. IMO, Winick deserves a ton of praise for this book.

Exiles is hit and miss, but it has so many cool elements from old Marvel that I consider it one of Marvel's better books. It's also a fun-and-funny book. Sometimes it gets a little boring, but most of the time it's pretty good.

GL is really hit and miss...

[Ogami Itto]

I hope Argent bites the dust and the "neo-founders" theory is correct. I wish they would just stop screwing with Donna. "Who is Donna Troy" was one of the best character-driven stories in Wolfman and Perez's run, and it was a single issue!!! After that, DC really screwed her up, but hopefully she survives the latest "We need to boost sales so lets kill somebody" stunt.