JLA: SECRET ORIGINS PREVIEW

[MichaelDoran]

<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/DC/secretorigins.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/DC/secretorigins_t.jpg" width="150" height="223" border="0" alt="JLA: Secret Origins cover" align="right"></a>DC has provided Newsarama with a few new color preview images from November’s 48-page oversized one-shot by the fan-favorite team of Paul Dini and Alex Ross, JLA: Secret Origins

The graphic album features: Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, the Flash, Aquaman, Martian Manhunter, Green Arrow, the Atom, Hawkman & Hawkgirl, Plastic Man, and Captain Marvel in eight all-new double-page origin spreads, plus a brand-new five-page framing sequence. The album also features reprints of classic Alex Ross artwork, preview art and sketches for the upcoming JLA: Liberty and Justice and exclusive interviews with the creators.

And speaking of interviews and that upcoming 2003 Ross/Dini JLA blowout, Newsarama spoke with Alex Ross about both of these projects when they projects were officially announced by DC during this year’s San Diego Comic-con, and that interview follows in its entirety, along with more new preview images…

<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/DC/JLSO_ps.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/DC/JLSO_ps_t.jpg" width="200" height="145" border="0" alt="JLA: Secret Origins group shot" align="left"></a>Originally published August 1st 2002 - At Friday’s DC Universe panel at SDCC, it was revealed that Alex Ross and Paul Dini will once again team for their annual, tabloid-sized book. The one difference – this time around, DC announced two Ross/Dini projects, both featuring the JLA - Secret Origins and Truth & Justice. Newsaram.com caught up with Ross to discuss going back to the well.

First off, JLA: Secret Origins promises to present eh origins of the icons – everyone from Superman down to Hawkman. “It’s got a slew of origins of the main Justice League guys,” Ross told Newsarama.com. “This is where we’ll go through guys like Barry Allen and Hal Jordan, and do them up in that sort of legendary fashion as if you’re hearing their stories told to you by an old wise man. It’ll pretty much have the same dynamic that I’ve exercised in the previous four books with those origins.”

As Ross tells it, originally, the Secret Origins book wasn’t supposed to exist – Dini and his next collaboration was supposed to be a big Justice League book. “I wanted to add in the origins of the four main League members [Flash, Green Lantern, Aquaman, Martian Manhunter] at the start of the Justice League book, even before we got into the rest of the story,” Ross said. “We argued about how that was front-loading the book, so this project is an answer to that – take those four out of there, and add a few more. In a way, I do the full colon-blow of the DC Universe. By the time I’m done, you’ll be saying, ‘C’mon – Metal Men! Ya gotta do Metal Men!’ I cover so many characters in here that you’d be scraping the bottom of the barrel to find a few more who need to be told.”

That said, Secret Origins will contain the origin pages from Dini and Ross’ Superman: Peace on Earth, Batman: War on Crime, and Wonder Woman: Spirit of Truth as well as the new material to make up a full 48 pages. Ross said that there will be a framing sequence to go along with the origins as well.

As DC announced in their panel, while JLA: Secret Origins is an event to itself, it is, in some regards, a prequel to next fall’s 96-page, tabloid-sized JLA: Liberty & Justice, which will feature the entire JLA.

While the format will be the same as the two’s four earlier collaborations, the story won’t be. Liberty & Justice will be a departure for Dini and Ross in that it will be more along the lines of a traditional comic book story starring the JLA.

“Storytelling wise, you’re going to get a lot more of an involved superhero action thing, where you’ll have more panel-to-panel interplay, and actual dialogue between characters, so there will be use of some form of word balloons, but there will also be some use of the narrative text as we’ll have a narrative voice going over the whole piece,” Ross explained. “There’s going to be a bridge made between the kind of comics Paul and I have been doing, and the kind that people are more used to reading. So, basically for the purpose of making it more engaging you’re getting every beat of a moment – everything that’s being said, everything that’s happening. It’s going to wind up having a lot more goings on and a lot less ruminations.

<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/DC/JLA_SecretOrigins_hawkman.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/DC/JLA_SecretOrigins_hawkman_t.jpg" width="200" height="142" border="0" alt="JLA: Secret Origins - Hawkman" align="right"></a>“With our earlier books, we were filling 60 pages with introspection. You would have a good number of action shots, but then you’d have more of these talking about feelings and things like that, which was purposeful in our eyes for a broader audience that didn’t take the characters for granted already as we commonly do in comics. So, this thing will play along some of the comics’ audience preconceptions that they understand the superhero language to a degree. In a way, we go into this with the idea of ‘okay, if you read the other books, then you’ve got everything you need to know on how to read this.’

We want to try and tell, rather than the ultimate Justice League story, just a decent and entertaining one that has, at its core, a good use of every member of this League.”

One of the reasons Ross and Dini wanted to tackle the entire League was that, logistics-wise, no matter how much they liked the characters, they weren’t going to be able to do four more books, spotlighting the Barry Allen Flash, Hal Jordan as Green Lantern, Aquaman, and the Martian Manhunter. By collecting the entire League, the other four will be given their chance to shine.

“Green Lantern, Flash, Aquaman, Manhunter and the rest will be played up quite specifically,” Ross said. “Superman and Batman will be there, but they won’t be our focus guys. We’re going to give the focus to the guys who don’t get their own books, while Superman and Batman will have kind of the same relationship they had to the original 1960s Justice League which was to show up at the end of adventure and make sure everyone was okay.”

From the starting gate, Ross is already defending his choice of League members, anticipating what the perception of the project will be. “Quite sadly, the generic excuse is that this is the JLA that I grew up with, and that’s why I want to do it,” Ross said. “But still, the JLA I grew up with is the one that lasted for close to 30 years, starting in 1960, and running up through…around the late ‘80s. On top of that, you’ve got the presence of the League that was made throughout the world in terms of the Super Friends, and various other cartoon representations.

“These are the characters that people know. When people who don’t read comics remember Flash, they might remember the police scientist. Arguably, Hal Jordan has..how many years of history? 45 or something, compared to eight or nine for Kyle Rayner that has been fought tooth and nail with the fans.

“My argument is that even though it seems entirely absorbed into ‘Gee, what did Alex see when he was a kid?’ it’s that this is what the majority of the people in the world know. These are the legends. No matter what you do, that funky Jim Lee costume on Green Lantern is not going to become a legend. Hal Jordan is.”

<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/DC/JLA_SecretOrigins_plastic.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/DC/JLA_SecretOrigins_plastic_t.jpg" width="200" height="137" border="0" alt="JLA: Secret Origins - Plastic Man" align="left"></a>Ross said that he and Dini’s working relationship wouldn’t undergo any major changes for this project, and continues along the path it’s been traveling for the last four-plus years. “It’s pretty much based upon trust - I’m going forward with a lot of stuff graphically before there’s full text on it, because I trust that we’re going to work out the text together,” Ross said. “He’s going to write a draft, and then anything that I didn’t see represented that I wanted in there, we’ll work back and forth on. We’re working pretty much as we always have. It seemed to work four times before, so we’ll just keep it the same way for this big, payoff last time.”

And yes, according to Ross, Liberty & Justice will be the last tabloid-sized book the two do together for DC. “I say that now,” Ross said, realizing the irony that he’s said the same thing about the books at least two times before. “I don’t see us turning around and doing anyone else, but then again, I’ve said all that before.”

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[MurrayC]

This looks too cool. As far as what to do next, Alex, how about a tabloid about the history of the JSA and/or Teen Titans? I would love to see Alex's take on the Perez era Titans

[daske]

Can someone explain to me how Alex Ross paints? This isn't a criticism, I legitimately want to know. Because I looked at the picture with everyone standing in a straight line, and it looks like each character was done as an individual portrait, then photoshopped into a line. You can tell by looking at how Green Arrow is stepping on Matian Manhunter's foot and Wonder Woman is standing on Superman's cape.

Again, I'm just curious if this is how it is done, or is just something for the sake of promotional artwork.

[Gelogurte]

I think I'm the only guy in the world who is already sick and tired of Alex Ross' stuff.

Don't get me wrong, the man is very talented. But I just don't care about his work anymore.

It's probably Wizard Magazine's fault... :D

[Jamal Y. Igle]

wow, this loooks sooooo. Hmm.Okay. ummmm.

[Gelogurte]

[quote]Originally posted by daske:
<strong>Can someone explain to me how Alex Ross paints? This isn't a criticism, I legitimately want to know. Because I looked at the picture with everyone standing in a straight line, and it looks like each character was done as an individual portrait, then photoshopped into a line. You can tell by looking at how Green Arrow is stepping on Matian Manhunter's foot and Wonder Woman is standing on Superman's cape.

Again, I'm just curious if this is how it is done, or is just something for the sake of promotional artwork.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh my God! You're right! Ross is a complete hack! Aquaman is standing on Supes cape too!

Seriously, this sure is promotional artwork, probably photoshopped by the guys at DC. If you look at it close enough, you'll see that this is a "collage" (is this word right?) of the Alex Ross' JLA posters all put together.

[MurrayC]

<strong>Can someone explain to me how Alex Ross paints? </strong>

First he sketches; then inks; then greytones it; then paints with watercolors called "goache"


<strong>Because I looked at the picture with everyone standing in a straight line, and it looks like each character was done as an individual portrait, then photoshopped into a line.</strong>

You are right. Each character was a seperate painting that were sold individually as posters.

[Hunter]

[quote]Originally posted by daske:
<strong>Can someone explain to me how Alex Ross paints? This isn't a criticism, I legitimately want to know. Because I looked at the picture with everyone standing in a straight line, and it looks like each character was done as an individual portrait, then photoshopped into a line. You can tell by looking at how Green Arrow is stepping on Matian Manhunter's foot and Wonder Woman is standing on Superman's cape.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

Could probably check this, but it just looks like they (they meaning whoever produced that image, Alex Ross or otherwise) took the series of posters he did for DC (Direct?) and overlaid them.

(Later edited)

[quote]<strong>You are right. Each character was a seperate painting that were sold individually as posters.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah, what he said. Stupid login problems. :o

[John Osen]

I'm there! :D

[Ravyn]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by daske:
[QB]Can someone explain to me how Alex Ross paints? ,,,

These were originally painted as individual portrait posters by Ross over the past few years - he's also done Supergirl, Shazam, and an *amazing* Batgirl poster.

Someone squished them all together for this promotional image, leading to the bizzare game of footsy the League seem to be playing.

[kimota94]

I love Alex's work (and always look forward to it) but lately it's seemed to lack any kind of real energy. I'm hoping the 2nd JLA Oversize special will bring him back to the sort of excitement we saw in KINGDOM COME.

Of course, what I'm really looking forward to is JLA/AVENGERS... isn't George far enough along yet to at least solicit the first issue???

[Cray_ws]

I look forward to seeing another Dini and Ross collaboration. Their previous works have been great I'm especially fond of Superman: peace on Earth Alex Ross was born to paint Superman and classic characters like Captain America. His bold and gracefully style is a tribute to the glory days of heroism. Very few artist out there can do that.

-Cray

[COREMARK]

The Hawkman and Plastic Man pages look fantastic, I'm looking forward to picking this up.

[Wade @ Sighnub.com]

I am so looking forward to this - especially as it is turning the focus on my favorite characters - the ones who are considered B-list by some.

Come on, the ATOM, CAPTAIN MARVEL, MARTIAN MANHUNTER, AQUAMAN - this is gonna rock!!!

No, seriously, I mean it...

[daske]

Thanks everybody!

I knew those images looked familiar, but I forgot that he did posters too!

Thanks again.

[Hokeyboy]

Yup, you can't do better than Superman :p eace on Earth. An incredible piece of work.

[Gelogurte]

[quote]Originally posted by Cray_ws:
<strong>Attention Comics Enthusiast!want to raise the quality of comics and reduce oversaturation of franchise titles? Boycott them! don't support just one X-book or one Bat-book, Spider-book, or Superman book. Boycott ALL of the franchise titles. Force these publishers to catter to US instead of settling. You truly are not missing out anything if you buy something else intriguing. Buy a smallpress book or something that doesn't have a buncha franchise titles.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You know, Mr Cray, I find you quote very interesting. I mean, here you are telling people to boycott franchises and your post is written "fanboy" all over it. Ross and Dini's stuff is on the top of the "Franchise Food Chain" and that's a very expensive place.

What I mean is, just because it's franchise, doesn't mean it's bad. I read a lot of independent comics too (Halo & Sprocket, Stupid Comics, Herobear and the Kid, among others), love them all, but I'll always be reading my Bat, X, Super and Spider books too!

[BHolmes]

My last hiatus from reading comics was years ago and Alex Ross and Kurt Busiek's Marvels was one of the books that brought me back into the fold. During that time away, Hal Jordan, a favorite from my younger days, went nuts and died and whatever, so Ross' love for the character and recuring use of Hal has also endeared me to Ross' work.
Re-reading Kingdom Come recently I realized that the Green Lantern was most likely Alan Scott, not Hal like I always thought. I was flabergasted, shocked to no end. Hal's immortalization in one of the greatest comic stories told gone, poof.
Well now I can look forward to to this JLA story with even greater zest so I can get my GL fix.

Benjamin

[PopCultureKid]

I still remember the awe that Marvels inspired. While it has faded some, Ross's work is still in a class by itself.

[Looney As A Toon]

Do you think the next group Ross and Dini will do in the oversized book format like Superman: Peace On Earth will be Marvel characters or if they stck with DC, what about a JSA book set in the 1940's? :D :)

[MikeD]

[quote]Originally posted by Ravyn:
<strong>[QUOTE]Originally posted by daske:
[QB]Can someone explain to me how Alex Ross paints? ,,,

These were originally painted as individual portrait posters by Ross over the past few years - he's also done Supergirl, Shazam, and an *amazing* Batgirl poster. </strong><hr></blockquote>

...as well as Zatanna, Plas, Dr. Fate, Spectre and the Golden Age Flash & GL. And I remember reading somewhere that Alex will be continuing the portraitseries with more JSA, Metamorpho and Red Tornado.

[Lazarus]

I have enjoyed all of Ross & Dini's work so far and this looks to be no exception. I have to admit though, I am looking forward to the JLA story more than the Secret Origins.

[parksa]

Does anybody else think Ross's Batman looks a little... goofy? I like the realistic nature of his painting, but I don't think it fits every character. He can make Superman look great, but characters like Spiderman and the Flash just look a little too bulky in his style. YOu know?

[Roast Beef]

[quote]Originally posted by Gelogurte:
<strong>I think I'm the only guy in the world who is already sick and tired of Alex Ross' stuff.

Don't get me wrong, the man is very talented. But I just don't care about his work anymore.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You are not alone
For I am here with you
Though you're far away
I am here to stay
For you are not alone
For I am here with you
Though we're far apart
You're always in my heart

Seeing Ross paint a character he hasn't done before is usually a thrill for me. But I don't ever need to see him do the same person again.

*andi'msorrybutithinkhisbatmansucks*

[aphterburn]

If I have to hear Alex Ross whine ONE...MORE...TIME about Hal Jordan and Kyle Rayner, I think I'm going to literally explode. This guy really needs to get over himself.

His beloved "legend" Hal Jordan couldn't sell any comic books. What about that? Kyle Rayner, this fly-by-night Green Lantern is a consistent seller and has been around for the better part of 10 years. The name Green Lantern is legendary, the people under the suit to a MUCH lesser extent. Wait 30 years and see if Kyle isn't just as "legendary" as Hal Jordan or Alan Scott.

I like Hal Jordan just fine. If he wants to paint him, that's great. But run down Kyle Rayner or Kevin Smith, and Jim Lee on your own time, Ross. Does he hate Wally West too? He's only been the Flash for almost 15-16 years.

I like Alex Ross's artwork just fine. It's his damn mouth that gets on my nerves. More painting, less yapping.

[Brian Langlois]

In 30 years Kyle Rayner will be long forgtten and his time will be looked upon as the dark ages of Green Lantern. Alex Ross is right in his decision to use the classic League. These are the characters people recognize, these are the legendary heroes. Ross is one of those creators who has the backbone to stand up and voice his dislike for the shameful way DC treats its legendary characters.

[BriRi]

A Plastic Man Origin
Alright!!!

[MurrayC]

[quote]Originally posted by aphterburn:
<strong>
I like Alex Ross's artwork just fine. It's his damn mouth that gets on my nerves. More painting, less yapping.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You wanna see some artwork that goes BEYOND what Alex Ross does? Check out this site:

<a href="http://www.chalkmaster.com/portfolio.htm" target="_blank">http://www.chalkmaster.com/portfolio.htm</a>

Unlike Ross, Dave the chalkmaster doesn't have a "mouth". He is very down to earth and extremely talented. If DC or Marvel is reading this, give this guy a job!

[MikeD]

[quote]Originally posted by MurrayC:
<strong>

You wanna see some artwork that goes BEYOND what Alex Ross does? Check out this site:

<a href="http://www.chalkmaster.com/portfolio.htm" target="_blank">http://www.chalkmaster.com/portfolio.htm</a>

Unlike Ross, Dave the chalkmaster doesn't have a "mouth". He is very down to earth and extremely talented. If DC or Marvel is reading this, give this guy a job!</strong><hr></blockquote>

He's good, but "beyond" Alex when it seems he is by and large reproducing Alex's (and other artists') previous work, albeit on sidewalks with colored chalk?

[UnimatrixOne]

The Tabloid book will be nice. WE will wait for DC to collect all of Alex Ross previous tabloids into one Standard size Graphic Novel. Then this will be assimilated. Demeaning another artist to promote your interest is Imperfect JIM LEE will be assimilated into THE COLLECTIVE. Alex Ross we leave to you. :p

[Zugernaut]

I don't know if Ross is necessarily trashing Lee. Sure, he's opinionated, but who cares?

Personally I think Hal Jordan stories and Kyle Rayner stories can co-exist. But I do think it will be very interesting when (and I do think this will happen at some point) Hal Jordan one day returns as Green Lantern. I really want to see how the "Get over it" crowd deals with that. It should be very entertaining.

I would like to know, though, how Ross fits Captain Marvel (and Plastic Man, for that matter) into the "old League" that he remembers. Captain Marvel wasn't a member until the post-Crisis series, if I recall. I don't mind, but I kind of wish Firestorm were included as well.

[Meteoro]

I love Alex Ross' work, but how come he always end up paired with Paul Dini... :(

I miss the time when Ross used to work on stuff like "Marvels" or "Kingdom Come"

:cool: M :cool:

[ssgohan116]

Before I say this I think that I should say that I am a big fan of Alex Ross's work. Works like "Marvels," "Kingdom Come," and the tabloid sized stuff have been amazing, and they should be staples in everyone's super hero comic collection.

However, if it were not for the medium that he uses in his art, there's no way that he would have the high profile that he does. I mean how many painters are there with his talent that choose to use their skills in the comic book industry? Maybe a few, but none of them get the high profile jobs that Ross gets.

If Ross was a penciler who worked a monthly title like any other average comic book artist, there's no way he could get away with the things he said in this interview.

To repeat what someone else on this forum has already said, I love his art, but Ross should think twice before he goes about criticising the work of other creators and the characters that they have worked so hard on.

[Reloaded]

[quote]Originally posted by aphterburn:
<strong>If I have to hear Alex Ross whine ONE...MORE...TIME about Hal Jordan and Kyle Rayner, I think I'm going to literally explode. This guy really needs to get over himself.

His beloved "legend" Hal Jordan couldn't sell any comic books. What about that? Kyle Rayner, this fly-by-night Green Lantern is a consistent seller and has been around for the better part of 10 years. The name Green Lantern is legendary, the people under the suit to a MUCH lesser extent. Wait 30 years and see if Kyle isn't just as "legendary" as Hal Jordan or Alan Scott.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I heartily second this. Hal Jordan is a legend, yes, but only so because current writers and artists grew up with him as THE Green Lantern. They treat him as the end all, be all Green Lantern. That's fine, but they should realize that in 20 or so years, once those who have grown up with Kyle Rayner enter the comics field and are creating from their own mythology, things will change. Hal Jordan will be treated with respect [as Alan Scott is], but it will be Kyle Rayner that is the "legend."

Really, didn't Alan Scott's fans feel this way when a cocky, alcoholic bum took over their hero's name?

[Brian Langlois]

[quote]
Really, didn't Alan Scott's fans feel this way when a cocky, alcoholic bum took over their hero's name?
<hr></blockquote>

I can't say for sure because I wasn't there, but the parallels between the Alan/Hal and the Hal/Kyle transitions are very few. Alan Scott was always treated with respect and when his fans wrote in asking what happened to him DC created a whole second Earth for the characters of old.

Hal on the other name had his name dragged through the mud and spit upon by the creators at the time. They NEVER showed any respect for Hal's legend or his fans. Thats why Hal fans are so bitter about the whole event. HAL JORDAN was the greatest GL, a man with no fear, and he would never have done what some hack writer came in and made him do. There are many others who feel this way and many professionals too. That is why Hal's return to glory is a forgone conclusion. It WILL happen and Kyle will be a footnote in the true legacy of the Green Lantern.

[IanZL]

Yeah right. Watch Kyle has got another few years and then it will be Jon Stewart. Why? The cartoon and to break up what appears to be a clan meeting.

If DC were smart they wouldn't let any one person be GL for so long. I mean the powers all come from one place (the ring) and you can put whoever you want behind it. They should keep it as a legacy thing and not just give us the same thing over and over again. Superman is his powers, he can't do that, but I say keep the Latern as a Legacy system. Besides why do we need that old man anyway?

And did you see the size of Dinah's legs? They're like tree trunks

And no, Alex Ross doesn't stand up for what he believes in, he's a prima donna who wants his way. Ohh, and a sell out. For a man who says he hates the X-men its funny that I have a picture of them, including Wolverine, hanging from my longbox.

[Darren J. Gendron]

In the cobbled-together group photo of the JLA, where's the love for Plastic Man?
We talk about stepping on people's toes, but where's the love?

[Brian Langlois]

[quote]
And no, Alex Ross doesn't stand up for what he believes in, he's a prima donna who wants his way. Ohh, and a sell out. For a man who says he hates the X-men its funny that I have a picture of them, including Wolverine, hanging from my longbox.
<hr></blockquote>

Alex Ross is a sell out? Why? Because he makes [A LOT] of money by being very good at what he does? He is a talented artist who became successful painting the characters he loves. It is very irritating to me when people call anyone successful a sell out. It happens in the music industry all the time. Any time an underground band gets popular and gets a contract, suddenly they are a sell out, even though they are still performing the same songs. Sell Outs are people who change their art just to suit the corporate agenda and get paid. If Alex Ross were a sell out, we would be seeing Kyle Rayner in this series because that's what DC wants and that is what is SUPPOSEDley more profitable (funny though that EVERYTHING with HAL in it sells through the roof). Anyway, I don't know the man personally, so I can't speak for his personality, but based on his work and his attitude, he is not anything but a sell out.

Brian Langlois

[ssgohan116]

[quote] (funny though that EVERYTHING with HAL in it sells through the roof) <hr></blockquote>

But it apparently didn't while Hal was still Green Lantern.

[Hdefined]

Do any of the Hal loyalists realize that Hal really only seemed to get interesting after they made him go nuts? I mean in retrospect, what with JLA Year One, the Emerald Knights arc where Kyle meets Hal, just anything after the fact. I've read a bunch of issues of the current GL volume from #1-47, and let me tell you, they blow pretty hard. They NEEDED a big change. And even if Ron Marz isn't the smoothest writer ever (understatement), he cleaned house and kept it interesting.

I'm not a huge Kyle fan either, but he's here and as long as writers can still use him and develop him, he'll stay. Ross needs to quit his bellyaching, after all, mainstream comics have primarily been illustrated in pencil and ink since, like, forever, should I start whining because I don't like Ross painting them?

How would Ross redesign Kyle? Hope not like those godawful X-Men redesigns

[Brian Langlois]

[quote]Originally posted by ssgohan116:
<strong>

But it apparently didn't while Hal was still Green Lantern.</strong><hr></blockquote>

People love that argument, and it is also a misconception. Sales on GL weren't that bad in the days of Gerard Jones (just before the big switch). They weren't that great, but they were solid. Solid enough to spawn a very popular spin-off series, Mosaic and a GLC quarterly book. There was also a major GL-centric crossover, Trinity, and the Guy Gardner book. All these books were cancelled or radically altered to make way for the new. Did sales on Kyle's one book equal the solid performance of three? No, the sad fact is that there was an Agenda going on behind the scenes. Multiple editor changes plagues the title from the begining, and it was Kevin Dooley who was determined to make Green Lantern his own (read the book "The Comic Book Super-Heroes" by Jones if you can find it). Granted, after his revamp there was a sales spike, like all big events. But the sales have declined (as have sales of the industry as a whole). Regardless of what heppened THEN, sales figures NOW clearly show that HAL Jordan related books and merchandise sell through the roof and a relaunch of Hal as Green Lantern by a great writer would be a boon to the industry. DC needs to admit that it made a mistake and fix the GL Legacy.

[ssgohan116]

I don't know anything about the behind the scenes stuff that you speak of. That may all be true and I agree that "backstage politics" always hurt the finished product.

However, concerning your argument that sales of the Kyle Rayner Green Lantern rose because of the "event," I think the same could be said of this Hal Jordan merchandise that is currently selling through the roof. Books like "Legacy" did well, and if DC put Hal back in the Green Lantern role it would sell through the roof. That can't be denied. But how long would that last? Wouldn't the return of Hal Jordan be an event in itself? Who's to say that a book starring Hal could put up good numbers over a long period of time in today's market? As of right now, no one can because it hasn't happened.

[Monster X]

This looks very good (I love old school JLA)I think i'll buy two copies :cool:

[Jason Michael]

[quote]Originally posted by Looney As A Toon:
<strong>Do you think the next group Ross and Dini will do in the oversized book format like Superman: Peace On Earth will be Marvel characters or if they stck with DC, what about a JSA book set in the 1940's? :D :) </strong><hr></blockquote>

They actually did a Captain America origin story in the recent Captain America:Red, White and Blue hardcover. Not over-sized, of course, but over-priced! Actually, it was a nice job. I enjoyed most of that book.

My only quibble with the Dini/Ross collaborations is that I wish they didn't use the "text" style rather than traditional word-ballons. When combined with Ross's often static poses, it makes the stories seem a little stiff. I'm tempted to say it's pretentious, but I don't want to be that negative. It's just not to my taste.

Jason

[parksa]

HAL JORDAN was the greatest GL, a man with no fear, and he would never have done what some hack writer came in and made him do. [quote] <hr></blockquote>

Uh, actually, Hal Jordan wouldn't do anything a except what a writer made him do, because he isn't a real person.

See, the thing about stories is, they MUST CHANGE. To mantain the status quo forever is to die. Whether you agree with the changes or not, okay, that's your opinion, but changes must happen.

[parksa]

Ah, I messed up the quote thing there. So sue me, I'm new at this.

[OMAR]

<strong>"These are the legends. No matter what you do, that funky Jim Lee costume on Green Lantern is not going to become a legend. Hal Jordan is.” </strong>

Thank God. With a few simple words, this man whose work has brought so much to the world of comic books shows that he is a man of integrity and character. He cuts through the filth and the ignorance of the scum who believe that there is no place for true heros in today's world.

Kyle Rayner is an evil lie. A lie that tells us that image is everything. A lie that tells us that cheap stunts for temporary sales spikes mean more than honor and tradition. He appeals to the kind of filth that embrace rape-rock like Limp Bizkit and hate anyone who argues that there are certain moral absolutes - that there is a definitive right and wrong in the world.

The next time some slime tells you that Kyle Rayner sells more comic books than Hal Jordan did, point out that this is a bald-faced lie. Sure, there was a spike when Hal was replaced - same as there was when Clark and Bruce were. But the average issue of Hal's series sold many thousands more copies than an issue of "Green Lantern" - and I use the term loosely - does today. Superman and Batman were brought back to the rightful identities, but because a certain editor and his lackey wanted to make their mark on comics history, Green Lantern was destroyed.

It's time for DC Comics to admit it's mistake and redeem Hal Jordan, bringing Hal Jordan back as the Green Lantern of sector 2814 (this Spectre business isn't cutting it). Now more than ever, America and the world need heros decent people can look to for inspiration. Enough with this cheap garbage that appeals to the worst our society has to offer - the lowlifes who seek the easy way out and have no sense of morality or conscience.

[danzo]

wow! i wasn't gonna add yet another post on this site today- already chimed in with my 2-cents enough- but, damn! this has gotten pretty fierce! not to mention a bit off topic, but what the hey....
first off, enough with the slagging of Mr. Ross' artwork; the man is an amazing talent whether you like his work or not. as for the comment that he couldn't get away with his commentary about other creators if he were on a monthly- are you nuts? pros have been taking shots at each other since th 70's at least, many of which have been far less kind than Ross' comments. oh, and about that chalk guy being beyond Ross' work- friend of yours, huh? um, no, while nice and showing a lot of potential, the man needs work- the two legs on a person should be equal in size for instance. Ross does wonderfull reality based anatomy- heck, the men are even "anatomically correct"! (c'mon guys, if you were a superbeing, would you want to sacrifice your genitalia, as so many heroes are drawn?! what's up with the crotchless hero anyway? we don't draw women without breasts, do we? fear of being seen as, um, less than masculine?)
and about the Green Lantern bruhaha: this is what really forced me to comment. first, the reason Hal stopped selling is because the book just plain sucked after O'Neil and Grell left, i followed from the 70's revival through the destruction of Hal. but only because the Green Lantern is my single favorite hero-concept; i often didn't read the issues i bought from the mid-80's on, just kept buying them to do my part to keep it from getting the axe. every now and then we'd get a good story, or art, but in general, it was crap. not the character, the creators. for a series that should have been all about wonder and cosmic adventure, it was too often about the boring and mundane. and boringly told at that. sometimes with good art, but usually not.... this problem affects far too many comics; a certain creator will think they have the niftiest ideas for a series, but the ideas have nothing to do with the "essential" concept that made the series work in the first place (like Morrisson on X-men; much as i love his work, this is just not true to them)
now, i like Kyle- i have no problem with him except that this run too has fallen into the trap, it's a book about Kyle, not about The Green Lantern. think about it. will Hal someday be back in the role? hmm, it could happen- unlike Wally West who quickly became "the" Flash; which is what he was groomed for all along, Kyle is just another in a long string of ring-bearers. and that's sad, because he is/was a likable enough character.
so, what really is at the core of the Green Lantern mess? lack of creativity and a complete misunderstanding of the concept, pure and simple. go back to the 60's read the Gil Kane illustrated run, you'll see all the essential elements there. re-read O'Neil's and Grell's revival, you'll see the same, but nicely updated for the times. if John Byrne can manage to get it right while making it fresh, why can't anyone else when it comes to revitalizing the Icons? one more bit; the trashing of Hal was only the second biggest mistake- killing off the Corps was the biggest, dumb, dumb, dumb! the third was turning the man into a drunk in a feeble attempt to ape the goings-on in Ironman at the time....
oh, and in case you're wondering, i like Alan Scott the best- coolest costume!

[danzo]

upon re-reading my previous post, i realized (aside from it being far too long!) that i might have given the wrong idea that GL is my favorite concept. nope, that would be the Legion- if i were a rich man i'd pay Alex Ross to paint them for me.... maybe he'll do one of these over-sized projects with them someday....sigh.

[AllAboutMe]

Yeah. Alex Ross is kinda opinionated. Remember the reason for he gave for not doing the covers to the DC Just Imagine Stan Lee Creating (whcih went to Adam Hughes)? He said he didn't want to do it because he thought it was a gimmick. A gimmick Alex? Alex Ross himself is a gimmick. This from a guy doing one of the Captain marvel alternate covers, covers for Shi,and numerous other covers to simply sell a book with art of an extremely lesser quality inside (especially Shi!).
Alex is not afraid to voice his opinion and he can get away with it. That's because he is one helluva artist. Any book, right now would kill to have Alex doing the covers for them.
So I think we can put up with a jackass to get works like this upcoming book. And I hope to see a similar project with Marvel (but not X-Men, Alex hates X-Men).

[MurrayC]

[quote]Originally posted by MikeD:
<strong>

He's good, but "beyond" Alex when it seems he is by and large reproducing Alex's (and other artists') previous work, albeit on sidewalks with colored chalk?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I meant "beyond" as a tongue-in-cheek reference to the size of the canvas that Chalkmaster Dave uses (no disrespect to Alex was ever intended) Dave is a HUGE Ross fan which shows in his work. He reproduces a lot of Alex's work because: a)as mentioned, he's a fan, b)everyone recognizes good [Ross] work when they see it, and c)it's what his customers usually request. It's amazing to see what Dave can do with [expensive] chalk and concrete sidewalk. I remember reading that it takes Alex nearly a week to complete a page from "War on Crime", but Dave can reproduce it on a sidewalk 6'x8' in size in under 10 hours (Granted, Dave has a reference to go by whereas Alex does the research and test pencils first)

[rockieman]

[quote]Originally posted by danzo:
<strong>upon re-reading my previous post, i realized (aside from it being far too long!) that i might have given the wrong idea that GL is my favorite concept. nope, that would be the Legion- if i were a rich man i'd pay Alex Ross to paint them for me.... maybe he'll do one of these over-sized projects with them someday....sigh.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, there may not currently be a tabloid sized Legion project, but he did paint a Superboy & Legion lithograph a couple of years ago. I believe it was one of the tall and skinny posters for a door. It was limited to 500 pieces.

Now to the rich man part...You can buy a framed lithograph for $850 or an unframed one for $650. You can buy it through <a href="http://www.dynamicforces.com/alexross/" target="_blank">Dynamic Forces - Alex Ross</a>

You can probably check ebay as well to see if it's any cheaper there.

Have fun saving!!

[Brian Langlois]

[quote]Originally posted by ssgohan116:
[QB] Who's to say that a book starring Hal could put up good numbers over a long period of time in today's market? [QB]<hr></blockquote>

Who's to say it couldn't?

Like I said, with a great writer like Kurt Busiek or Neil Gaiman (Both of whom have spoken up for Hal) I think it would. As for the "Change must occur" argument, I never said I was against change. Change happens. BUT, I feel that the cchanges should stay true to the original SPIRIT of the work. Kyle Rayner was made to be the Anti-Hal in every way. They totally trashed the GL legacy and mythos and changed everything to fit into what they wanted. That's not fair to the fans. They didn't have to change WHO GL was to shake things up a little.

Kyle Rayner is simply not a good superhero. He is selfish, immature, wreckless, and cowardly. Superheroes should be strong, smart, and fearless. That's what makes them great. That was Hal Jordan!

Oh, and thanks for your post, OMAR. I couldn't have said it better myself!
(I love how you can edit posts on this system)

[Silver Age Adam]

I can't wait to buy these two books.

And I for one am ready for the return of Hal Jordan as Green Lantern. (And we can certainly keep Kyle in the lantern business as well.)

[Gelogurte]

[quote]Originally posted by Roast Beef:
<strong>

You are not alone
For I am here with you
Though you're far away
I am here to stay
For you are not alone
For I am here with you
Though we're far apart
You're always in my heart

Seeing Ross paint a character he hasn't done before is usually a thrill for me. But I don't ever need to see him do the same person again.

*andi'msorrybutithinkhisbatmansucks*</strong><hr></blockquote>

Roast Beef, are you a comedian?
Seriously, this is probably... no, this IS the best reply I ever got! I'm still laughing my ass off!
Thanks!

[Starsky_Hutch76]

[quote]Originally posted by Reloaded:
<strong>
Really, didn't Alan Scott's fans feel this way when a cocky, alcoholic bum took over their hero's name?</strong><hr></blockquote>


He only became that when some hack retconned him into that during the same dark ages that produced Emerald Toilet. Every hero had to be some sort of flawed soul. :rolleyes: