TRANSFORM-ED HISTORY

[MattBrady]

<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/Other_Publishers/TFU1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/Other_Publishers/TFU1_t.jpg" width="175" height="266" border="0" alt="Transformers Profiles Book I cover Transformers are &copy; Hasbro, 2002" align="right"></a>So, you think that December’s Transformers Profiles Book I is just your run of the mill encyclopedia in the same format as dozens of other “encyclopedia” books? Wrong. Simply put, the four volumes of Transformers Profiles will officially establish a new continuity for the Transformers, free of key points that were specific to the animated series, the Marvel series, and the movie. When all is said and done, Dreamwave will have its own, independent Transformers continuity.

But let’s walk before we run, shall we? But first – pull up something soft to sit on – this is probably more Transformers info than you’ve digested in a long time, if ever. Let your inner geek out to play, and onward…

Rolling the clock back, Generation 1, that is the “main” Transformers that were released as toys in the ‘80s (and currently star in the Dreamwave series) have roughly four continuities: the continuity based on the toys, the continuity based on the Marvel comic series in the ‘80s, the continuity based on the animated series, and the continuity based on Transformers: The Movie.

While the various continuities may have similar elements and events, the Marvel Transformers series doesn’t necessarily agree exactly with the continuities of the toys, the animated series or the movie. While fans have created their own patches and workarounds to the cover the points where things don’t quite line up, there was no single official continuity for the entire scope of the G1 Transformers, that covers everything – origin, prehistory, years spent on Cybertron (their home planet), war (between the Autobots and Decepticons), journey to and rediscovery on earth, and present day that also makes sense with the information on the toys themselves.

On top of that, from a legal standpoint, it was impossible to simply merge all the divergent Transformers continuities into one that had elements of the four. While Hasbro owned and still owns the rights to the Transformers, the continuity of any given version (comic, animated series, movie) was a co-production with Hasbro, and not 100% owned by the toymaker. As a result, no Transformers licensee could refer to or use continuity points from previous incarnations of the characters.

After all, Marvel’s Transformers continuity includes Spider-Man, who appeared in issue #3, as well as G.I. Joe, with whom they crossed over in a miniseries. Technically, those encounters, and any subsequent character points never happened as far as the animated series was concerned, as the animation studio did not have the rights to Spider-Man or G.I. Joe. It’s kind of like why characters don’t refer back to events that occurred during inter-company crossovers in comics.

And then – along comes Dreamwave.

From their first days with the property, Pat Lee’s studio was planning to fully explore the universe of the G1 Transformers, from current day in Transformers: Generation 1 to their earlier days in Transformers: Armada and their even earlier days in the recently launched Transformers: The War Within. But what happened when, with who, and how?

Starting to see where the problem lay?

December’s Transformers Profiles Book I is the start of a property-wide fix - the Profiles books will be not only a guidebook for all the G1 Transformers, but also a roadmap to the revised Transformers continuity. The books will ship bi-monthly, and each be over 96 pages long.

Overseen by Pat Lee, the content was provided for the series by Destination Entertainment, whose Marc Pattern spoke with Newsarama about the G1 timeline.

<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/Other_Publishers/Devastator.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/Other_Publishers/Devastator_t.jpg" width="175" height="233" border="0" alt="Devastator, from Book I - Transformers are &copy; Hasbro, 2002" align="left"></a>According to Patten, Destination never came into the project with the intention of re-creating or doing a whole-cloth revision of the Transformers continuity. That came later, after they landed the gig. “Dreamwave was told that there were legal issues involved with following any of the previous G1 comic, TV show, or movie continuities,” Patten said. “Dreamwave had always planned to publish some sort of reference guide for Transformers. We’d been in contact with a few of the guys there on a friendly basis, and after they got the Transformers license, we pitched them to not just do a series that would rehash the Marvel series.

“We pitched to them to do every, single Generation 1 character that was ever a toy or a key character in known continuity. Officially, that’s 385 characters. That includes everything that was created from 1984 through 1990, including the mostly unknown characters from the later toy series that were released as sets like the ‘89-’90 Micromasters line which came as multi-packs of mini cars or trains or planes. There would be anywhere between two and six Transformers in a package, like the ‘Airstrike Patrol,’ which had four planes on a blister card.”

A toy collector and dealer himself, Patten, along with other members of Destination, opted to go all out with the G1 Transformers, leaving no stone unturned. “Using the example of the ‘Airstrike Patrol,’ in Profiles, each of the four characters in that set will have an individual listing,” Patten explained. “It’s a hugely ambitious project. Many of the characters have never had a stitch written about them. The Marvel series [Transformers Universe] only covered about 130 characters and covered very few Transformers that came out as toys after 1987.”

Many, Many Years Ago

As Transformers fans themselves, Dreamwave gave Patten and the writers at Destination a dream job – virtual carte blanche with the characters. The only stipulations were that they had to hold to the basics, and make sure things worked out to an era where all the pieces will fit together. As a general rule of thumb, in the new Dreamwave/Hasbro continuity, anything that dealt with the past from previous incarnations has been thrown out – kinda. Large events, such as the Autobot/Decepticon war still exist, but smaller events, as well as select Transformers themselves may have changed slightly.

“Since Dreamwave’s current modern G1 series only deal with the current earth, there isn’t any mess to deal with yet there,” Patten said. “Simon Furman’s The War Within series covers the beginnings of what’s known as, ‘The Great War.’ This is simply the war between the Autobots and the Decepticons, which started on Cybertron. This is where our revised continuity comes in, and Simon’s ideas kicked it off in a big way.

“The Great War basically lasts nine million years. Approximately three million years into the war on Cybertron, Optimus Prime and Megatron leave their home planet for parts unknown, and disappear. As Transformers fans know, somehow they ended up on earth - they crash landed, and were buried far beneath the earth’s crust for four million years. So, they leave after about three million years of war, are buried for four million years – that’s seven million years, and the war technically goes on for two million years more after that. So right now, in the current Dreamwave series, they’re in the seven millionth year of this war. So it’s a pretty large scope that we have to work with.”

Looking at the time frame within which they had to work, Patten and his writers broke the millions of years down by release years of the toys so that the release years correspond to a particular historical year. “Basically, we’re calling every million Cybertronian years a millennium, even though conventionally, a millennium is a thousand years,” Patten said. “To simplify things, every million years of the war in particular is an Arc. If a toy debuted in 1987, that’s the fourth year of Transformers toy releases and hence the character either originated or rose in power and prominence in the fourth Arc of the Great War. Basically, seven years of toy history, from 1984 through 1990 equals seven million years of Transformers history, continuity-wise that we are recreating, with the seven millionth year being now, on earth.”

Got it? Hold on – there’s more.

Toys, that is, characters released in 1984 correspond with Arc I, the first million years. The second million years of Transformer G1 history correspond to 1985 toy releases, and so on.
“The bottom line is that we’re doing profiles of all the characters within this new continuity, and revising the history and backstory of the Transformers Universe,” Patten said. “I know fans will be asking, ‘since the movie continuity now doesn’t necessarily exist, how can all of those characters fit in?’ We will be addressing that, as well as other characters that may have convoluted histories that we wanted to fit in. Essentially, rather than writing a profile of things that are yet to happen, we’ve rewritten history to say that all of these characters have debuted in the past, and we have seven million years in which to work.

“The War Within series shows one of these changes, for example. In the animated series, Optimus Prime was originally known as Orion Pax. That’s been thrown out the door. In revised continuity, he is known as Optromix, who is more of a data archivist who inputs new facts of current events into a planetary database. He was chosen by the Great Matrix and Council of Elders to be the next Prime after the previous Prime died in battle with the Decepticons in the early days of the Great War. That’s all covered in The War Within series.

“While we can’t reveal any specific details with what we’re doing with specific characters, the series is alphabetical, the first book is A to D, and will run 96 pages, and cover 85 characters. Book II will be E through M, and covers 103 characters. Book III is N through the middle of S, which is 94 characters, and Book IV is the second half of S through Z, which covers 103 characters.”

But How Real is It?

<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/Other_Publishers/Arcee.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/Other_Publishers/Arcee_t.jpg" width="175" height="233" border="0" alt="Arcee, from Book I - Transformers are &copy; Hasbro, 2002" align="right"></a>While the revised continuity Patten and Destination are crafting for the Transformers will be adhered to (as best as possible) by Dreamwave, the jury’s still out on whether or not Hasbro will adopt it as official canon.

“While I can’t guarantee that Hasbro will adopt this new continuity, it is ours and Dreamwave’s hope that they will, because they don’t have any type of reference guide for these characters,” Patten said. “With this, they’ll have a comprehensive guide with history, backstory, origins, anecdotes and visuals for every Generation 1 character toy they made. Plus, we’re throwing in a few related characters that may have never been toys, but are still important enough to transformers lore that we couldn’t leave them out. An obvious one is Acree who is very popular and originally debuted in Transformers: The Movie. Fans will just have to buy the series to see who else we sneak in.

That said, this will be the official history that Dreamwave will be using for any future projects. After all, after 1987 or ‘88, there isn’t any official history written anyway, aside from the ‘Tech Specs’ - the descriptive paragraphs that were written on the back of the toy packages. We’re using the Tech Spec information from the toys as a basis and sometimes a springboard to create an anecdote or a brief adventure that the character may have been involved in, or a point of historical reference. However, that’s not necessarily engraved in stone. So, if information appeared in Tech Spec that a character had a certain type of personality, we may be using that as a basis for their entry, or we may scrap it and start from scratch.”

Forging the Histories

Given the wide open playground Patten and the Destination Entertainment writers had in regards to creating backgrounds for characters that previously had none, the gravity of the opportunity was…intimidating to say the least.

“It’s a pretty daunting task to write 300 words on 380-plus characters,” Patten said. “Our first thought was, ‘Yeah cool - we’re going to get to write all of this!’ Our second thought was ‘Oh my God – we actually have to write all this.’ It was pretty mind-blowing from both sides of the coin.

“For example, the Pretenders first appeared in 1988, which is the fifth year of toys, so it’s the fifth arc—five million years into the war. all of the later characters showed up near the end of the comic book continuity, and the Pretenders themselves didn’t even appear in the show because the show was over by the time those toys launched.

“So, we had to figure out a way where all these different groups would fit in, even those without much history - which led us to organizing things by the year the toy was released. It’s not a fool-proof plan, because Simon uses some of the characters from the second and third years of toy releases in The War Within storyline - which takes place in the first Arc of the War. You can spot images of them in issue #1 and #3 that partially puts a hole in our arc timeline.

“As I mentioned earlier, the way we explain it is that a character had their major development or a significant event happen to them in the arc that corresponds to their toy release year. For example, Trypticon appears in The War Within series, but originally his toy wasn’t released until the movie timeframe, which was 1986. So, by our Arc organization, he shouldn’t exist in The War Within. Since he doesn’t have a major role in that story, we tweaked things a little bit and say that he didn’t rise to significant power until the third Arc.”

Even with that said, Patten and the Destination writers had a lot – a lot of Transformers that needed histories prior to Optimus Prime and Megatron showing up on earth. That is, many of the toys released in the middle of the Transformers run still needed stories. Setting histories and stories on Earth wasn’t a possibility, since technically, the Transformers weren’t on earth yet (they appear with the discovery/resurfacing of Optimus Prime and Megatron in the seven millionth year of the war) – luckily, there was four million years of virgin territory on Cybertron to explore – cities to create and populate. Also, Patten said that Nebulon (formerly called Nebulous) will be of key importance in the time-frame their exploring.

<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/Other_Publishers/Bumblebee_Pretender.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/Other_Publishers/Bumblebee_Pretender_t.jpg" width="175" height="259" border="0" alt="Bumblebee Pretender from Book I - Transformers are &copy; Hasbro, 2002" align="left"></a> “After we came up with the method of organizing by toy year and had the Arc format, we divided characters up and organized events into the Arcs as well,” Patten said. “While I’m not going to say what happens during the third Arc after Optimus and Megatron and all those original early characters left Cybertron and ended up on Earth, no one’s ever gone into what happens on Cybertron for those four million years - from their departure until their discovery on earth. That’s basically where most of this backstory, history, and new origins for the profiles take place.”

Patten acknowledged that the snippets and anecdotes may be the closest he or any of his writers get to writing Transformer stories, and for some of the 380+ characters, 300 words in Profiles will be their day in the sun, relatively speaking. That said, Patten has hopes future writers will look kindly on the seeds planted in Profiles.

“The thing that we kind of hope will springboard from these four profile books is that someone will start to dip into the million and one stories that can be told from the anecdotes in the profiles,” Patten said. “The way the old Marvel series ran, they basically took the Tech Specs and blew them out into two or three paragraphs. They didn’t add much, if anything, to continuity. These who’s who things are usually relatively boring - there are some stats listed, but all everyone wants to do is look at the pictures.

“We wanted to change people’s perceptions of that,” Patten continued. “The big thing with this series is that people are going to want to read these. This is a lot of text - the first volume alone is about one-third the length of a novel, and each entry is roughly 300 words. It’s going to take someone a long time to read through one of these. For $12.95, people are going to get way more than their money’s worth. The art is top notch and contains the dynamic pencils of Pat Lee and Dreamwave’s new era of superstars like Don Figueroa and James Raiz. I can’t tell you how cool this stuff looks. If you’ve seen some of the posters and lithographs that Dreamwave is doing, you’ve got an idea.”

Not every single Transformer’s history is being constructed by Destination Entertainment, though – there are some open slots and empty spaces. “We did that on purpose,” Patten said. “We wanted to leave some things vague with room for certain things that might be planned in the future for characters that we couldn’t reveal. On the flip-side, a lot of entries have little stories -you may read a story on one page that relates to a story elsewhere in the book, perhaps a different side to the story or even a continuation. There’s a synergy throughout the whole book. As you read the 300+ profiles, you’ll get a big picture of what went on with a lot of these characters during the seven million years on Cybertron.

“As far as the characters that previously had no histories, which pretty much is most of the characters after 1987-88, we looked at them, tried to understand why they would exist, and what role or function they would serve in the greater universe. People will hopefully read the most obscure character entries and think they’re really cool.

“But really, let’s make no mistake, though - the art is definitely the attraction here, but now each character fits into a piece of an overall tapestry,” Patten concluded. “There are alliances that fans never knew about, and betrayals that were hidden until now. 300 words each isn’t a lot, but hopefully fans will get a kick out of them, and not hate us for rewriting or tweaking some of their favorite characters.”

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[TemporalFlux]

Ooooo...I wish I would have known this for the December order form. :( I thought it was just going to be another Transformers Universe ala Marvel and just skipped it.

[BoyWonder]

The War Within is awesome. I just checked it out to see what the Transformers looked like in their original forms, really cool.

However, could somebody please tell me about the rumour that all Dreamwave Transformer Comics cannot be sold outside the U.S? If this is true will I never see the rest of War Within? Will I see this profile book? Come on Newsarama, tell me what is going on.

Also, glad to have the site back!

[D.J. Coffman is your daddy]

Does anyone really care?---

I still can't wait till all this sad revamped stuff dies out. Curse you Josh Blaylock! It's all your fault dude! hehehehe-- (I still have one of the original underground stickers he use to make on my desk though, Oldskool indeed.)

[BoyWonder]

[quote]Originally posted by D.J. Coffman is your daddy:
<strong>Does anyone really care?---

I still can't wait till all this sad revamped stuff dies out. </strong><hr></blockquote>

So giant robots are sad, but men in tights are cool????? Is every Spiderman comic since Stan Lee and Steve Dikto's run a sad revamp? New interpretations of old characters is the basis of the superhero comic book industry.

Also, a lot of non-americans bought Dreamwave's Transformers book and helped put it in the top 10. Surely Dreamwave care that their market is going to be suddenly reduced?

[ssgohan116]

All I can say is that those guys have got a lot of time on their hands.

Not sure if I will buy this or not. As a Transformers fan, it's something I'd like to have, but there's no way I'd ever read through the whole thing.

But I must say that Dreamwave is doing an awesome job with Transformers and hope that this project does as well for them as the rest of their stuff.

[pmpknface]

I too thought this was just going to be a poster book of sorts, but I had no idea they were going to go continuity crazy! Now my interest in piqued...

[Donnie Darko]

WHAAAT? No Orion Pax. Darn you, Simon Furman. I loved tholse old Transformers cartoons

[Larry Stub]

i passed on this perceived handbook based upon my disappointment of the recent g.i. joe “battle files” and the tf profile's $12.95 price tag. i do not recall if it was solicited as being a recasting of the transformer universe, but if it was, i just might have overlooked the cost. i guess i'll wait for the collection now . . .

[KingStalin]

Holy Crap! I need to get this back ordered now. This finally answears the question of what continutinty Dreamwave is following. The product release/ million years idea is great and I can't wait for this. I just hope to see Hot Rod and Ultra Magnus soon. Excellent job dreamwave.

[pmpknface]

Slightly off topic - did any of you read the "Target: 2006" trade that just came out? It started off slow, and jumped into high gear quickly! I totally dug it - and the format was really cool! Treasury size rocks! :eek:

[John Osen]

Robots in Disguise! :p

[Aaron Weisbrod]

When I was a wee lad I thought the "Transformers" cartoon and movie were the coolest things in the world. Why? Because main characters were actually killed off and the world eventually became an apocolyptic wasteland.

Ahhh... the good ol' days...

Day-dreaming,
Aaron Weisbrod

[xdemon]

I was very dissappointed with the G1 mini. I read Armada #1 and it didn't do anything for me. I flipped through War Within at the store and did a big fat old "pass". This new project doesn't sound interesting at all.

I will always consider the TV series and movie the true continuity. I have always preferred the tv series and movie to any incarnation of the comic book because, simply, you got to watch them transform! I would go frame-by-frame and watch the transformations. (Yes, I was a Transformers fanatic.)

[hourman80]

Ah! Finally someone has decided to step in and clean house as they say. It's about time continuity gets cleaned up in the TF universe. Now if only Marvel could follow suit.

[csGuy]

I was pretty sure I wouldn't get this...
but after reading this article!!

jumping the gun here a little, but if they collected these books it would be something like 50$!!

[Reloaded]

Very interested in this.

[Grendel Prime]

Hopefully sales will be good enough for this project to convince DC to whip up another "Who's Who" and Marvel to come out with another "Official Handbook". Call me an über-geek, but I love those things.

[Jake Ivers]

Sounds good. I've liked the G1 stuff and War Within so far!

As for Armada? Just stay away. It's crap. :(

[jclem3]

This is cool and stuff but international readers like me won't be getting Transformers starting this month because of Hasbro's stupid policies.

Matt or Mike, care to make a story out of this?

[FortressMaximus]

Woah! This is going to be one hell of an project! I wish the guys behind it the best of luck.

But my biggest worry is going to be about Arcee. The artwork is great but is she still going to be a Headmaster or is 'The Rebirth' one of those 'things that are going to be twinked'? And is so, what happens to Fortress Maximus? Is he bonded to Galen, Spike, or did it never happen, or just not yet? It'll be interesting to see.

FM

[ZacWilliam]

I'm a HUGE TF fan, always have been since 1984 and never stoped. :)

As for the DW stuff so far:

The G1 min-series was mediocure (It was GREAT to see the G1 cast again, and the art was ussually very nice, but the writing as average at best)

The Armada series has been fun so far. It comes closest to capturing the feel of an actual Saturday morning cartoon, the story/characters have been fairly fun and the art is great, but it suffers to those who are only into TFs for nostalgia reasons since it's not G1. The currant (3rd) issue was the weakest since it had to introduce the human kids, but 1 and 2 were quite cool and I hold ot hope that the futurre will match them.

The War Within series has been SPECTACULAR. Written by Simon Furman, god of the old TF Comics, and drawn by majorly talanted Transfan Don THIS is the series Transformer fans were hopinf for from the start. Major focus on the TFs themselvs as characters, history of the war, personality, beautiful art full of easter eggs for fans. The Preview and the first issue have been hands down the best TF material put out by DW and I can't wait for more.

[Mellow Doubt]

Great article. I was a TF fan growing up, but I missed out on all the continuity, so it's great to be getting in on something resembling the ground floor.

By the way, what's all this about international readers not being able to get their TF comic fix?

[rtvu2]

Any word on the price of the books? Any special features it will have? Can't wait to get this. Out of all the 80's stuff that has come out, only Transformers have kept my interest.

[ZacWilliam]

On the TF :p rofile Book:

:eek: And here I was woried about the book being all pretty pictures and no character text!

This is a very revolutionary and different approach to TF history.

I do already forsee one problem in the new Timeline with the Classic pretenders.I want to know how you get Pretender Bumblebee, Grimlock, Jazz, and Starscream 1 million years ago.

Still, this is a VERY interesting and ambitious project and I'm VERY interested to read it. I expect a lot of hardcore (fossilized?) fans will be up in arms over any changes to their favorite bits of the old stuff (and I can think of some of my favorite old stuff that I REALLY hope makes it: Guardian Robots, Skyfire and Starscream, Bluestreak's history, Nightbeat, Thunderwing, Female Autobots) but I'm gonna keep an open mind.

After all it's not like all the old comics and shows are going away, those loved continuities will still exist, this is just establishing a new, coherenct universe/history for the DW TF continuity to build from.

If done right this could be great.


-ZacWilliam, December really can't get here fast enough now IMO.

[daske]

[quote]Originally posted by hourman80:
<strong>Ah! Finally someone has decided to step in and clean house as they say. It's about time continuity gets cleaned up in the TF universe. Now if only Marvel could follow suit.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You know, it's funny, I was just thinking that this was the problem Marvel had in the first place. Trying to reconcile all that continuity was a turn-off for most new fans (myself included) to get involved in the comic. I just want good stories.

I'm sure for Transformers fans, this is a boon. But it just looks like a little too much backstory for me to enjoy Transformers as a book.

But, hey, success to all!

[thesporq]

I hope they'll work in the Beast Wars and Beast Machines somewhere in there.

[RichardS]

I just hope the guys writing this have read the Transformers UK series. Most of that was written by Simon Furman (except the early Marvel US series bits that get reprinted in it) and he does a pretty good job there of making it fit in with the movie continuity. Those are the only two continuities I ever counted anyway. Never liked the cartoon- the voices just sounded wrong.

I have all the original issues of Target 2006, and I've always liked it. One of the classic Transformers UK stories.

So far I haven't bought any of Dreamwaves Transformers comics, despite being a huge fan, because I'm waiting for the TPB editions. (I've quite getting single issues). I probably will get non-Simon Furman series too, but it's just the Furman comics I really want to read.

-Rich

P.S. Jae Lee made a pigs-ear of Arcee (see picture above). Terrible rendition. However, the other images all look great!

[Marc Patten]

[quote]Originally posted by FortressMaximus:
<strong>Woah! This is going to be one hell of an project! I wish the guys behind it the best of luck.

But my biggest worry is going to be about Arcee. The artwork is great but is she still going to be a Headmaster or is 'The Rebirth' one of those 'things that are going to be twinked'? And is so, what happens to Fortress Maximus? Is he bonded to Galen, Spike, or did it never happen, or just not yet? It'll be interesting to see.

FM</strong><hr></blockquote>

[Seibertron]

For the sake of clarity, the movie and the animated series both took place in the same continuity. There are only three variations of the Transformers continuity:

1) The toyline
2) Marvel Comics storyline
3) The animated series

[Marc Patten]

[quote]Originally posted by FortressMaximus:
<strong>

But my biggest worry is going to be about Arcee. The artwork is great but is she still going to be a Headmaster or is 'The Rebirth' one of those 'things that are going to be twinked'? And is so, what happens to Fortress Maximus? Is he bonded to Galen, Spike, or did it never happen, or just not yet? It'll be interesting to see.

FM</strong><hr></blockquote>


You'll just have to wait and see... Both are favorites of ours, so don't worry, Arcee isn't going to become a belly dancer. Fort Max who looks pretty cute in a bikini on the other hand...

--Marc ;)

[ravensvoice]

this could either be amazing cool or incredibley stupid...

i will flip through i tbefore i make my decision though i can imagine all the old transformers continuity fans freaking out with this...

[Wade @ Sighnub.com]

I have always really enjoyed the Transformers. I was way too young to be heavy into continuity issues of any kind though. So this is sort of news to me that all these media representations were at odds with each other.

One quick question for all the Transformer fanatics out there. Where does Beast Wars/Beast Machines fit in to all this? Those were relatively recent cartoons that aired during the 90's. This article seemed to only discuss stuff that was pre-90's. Are those cartoons considered non-canon or alternate universe kind of things.

I remember that at least as far as the cartoons themselves were concerned they referred back to earlier continuity.

[TemporalFlux]

[quote]Originally posted by ZacWilliam:
<strong>I do already forsee one problem in the new Timeline with the Classic pretenders.I want to know how you get Pretender Bumblebee, Grimlock, Jazz, and Starscream 1 million years ago.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I can already think of one possibility, but it's not necessarily what they used. I would take an expanded meaning on the "Pretender" concept to make it work. They weren't the real ones...just pretenders. ;)

[IanZL]

I hate you guys because I don't want to spend $13 but i know i will.

Is there going to be a massive definitive collection of this or should we just get the individuals?

Yeah, I still tend to just believe that the Cartoon history is canon and was hoping that Dreamwave's books would just fill in from there. I mean it isn't running anymore why not carry on the most popular and known version. I know I know, legal rights, but I was a kid and i think the legal rights of the world should bend for Transformers. Come on DIC/Sunbow, help us out here. Help keep us from going insane!!

Yeah the MOVIE was part of the cartoon continuity. It jumped a bit and left some gaps from season two but it was canon with it. That is why the third season had elemants of both.

Oh yeah, and this helps explain why I have to see my favorite charcter (Wheeljack) die again.

[TemporalFlux]

[quote]Originally posted by Wade @ Sighnub.com:
<strong>One quick question for all the Transformer fanatics out there. Where does Beast Wars/Beast Machines fit in to all this? Those were relatively recent cartoons that aired during the 90's. This article seemed to only discuss stuff that was pre-90's. Are those cartoons considered non-canon or alternate universe kind of things.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, going by the Beast Wars show (the only real fleshed out continuity for them), they are in the relatively far future. I got the impression this work will only cover the first 7 million years of the war (which takes it to present day) - Beast Wars would be in the remaining 2 million years of the future left in the war (even with the time travel element since technically no one in the past ever knew about their trip).

[otter]

Man, these guys definitely put a lot of thought into this project. It sounds a lot more in depth than your standard run of the mill Marvel Universe series. Great job, guys.

Personally, I think it would be REALLY cool if each profile included some sort of power grid (kinda like what was on the old tech specs). If DC & Marvel come out with any more "Who's Who" type books, a statistic chart should be included with each entry. I think some of the old X-Men and Marvel Universe trading cards used to have these. I always liked comparing strength, speed, etc.

[ZacWilliam]

Hey Marc, cool to see you responding here. And you're from CT, me too. :) (Hey if you need any help with the old TF backstory give me a call ;) )


Arcee and Fort Max are question marks, sure. Like Grimlock, Sky/Jetfire, Omega Supream, Blaster, and Shockwave they differ vastly between the old Comics and old Cartoons. Still, that's only a simple matter of the new writers choosing wich version they like best (my preferences: Comic, Cartoon, Cartoon, Comic, and Either respectively) or creating some new amalgum.


The REAL question is how are you guys going to handle characters that don't seem able to fit your new timeline at all:

How can you introduce Goldbug in the 4th MY Story-Arc when Bumblebee was on the Ark that had already left and crashed on Earth?

How can Megatron become Galvatron in the 3rd Arc when he's gone and crashed, then become Megs again by the 7th Arc?

How can Prime become a Powermaster with a Nebulan partner HiQ durring the 5th million years, when, like Bumblebee, he was on the crashed Ark?

And the same goes for Pretender versions of Bumblebee, Jazz, Grimlock, and Starscream, all 6th Arc characters who have modern alternate modes and should be deactivated till the 7th, modern Arc.


I'm sure from the article that you guys put a lot of thought into all this, so you must have come up with some way around these things (time travel?), but I'm definately very intreagued to see how you pull it all off. :)

All in all it sounds like a thrilling and slightly scary prospect, from what I can see arond the net, Transfandom as a whole is excited about the idea and hoping with baited breath that you guys can pull it off as cool as it sounds.


A couple final questions:

1) Are you borrowing at all or taking inspiration from the old Comics and Toon, where and when you legally can, or is it mostly tech-specs and new material?

2)You said the War lasts 9my and that the modern day is the 7 millionth year. Are you leaving things open for a possibe G2-MW-BW-BM Profiles series to follow? Would that, totally theoretically, put G2 in the 8th million year, Machine Wars in the 9th, and the Beast series, as they were written, a few hundred years after the Great War ends? (Not really expecting an answer on this fanwanky question but had to ask. :) )

-ZacWilliam, who would love to see Elita One and Alpha Trion,(though he knows those are not likely for legal reasons and accepts it), but still kinda hopes the Skyfire/Starscream connection, Swoop/Divebomb's 'name' rivalry, and Omega's Guardian Robot/Constructicon origin will survive...

[quote]Originally posted by Matt Brady:
<strong>It’s kind of like why characters don’t refer back to events that occurred during inter-company crossovers in comics.</strong><hr></blockquote>

There are exceptions.

Darkness refered to the Darkness/Batman crossover many times, and late 90's DC comics made references to DC vs Marvel sometimes.

[www.Decepticon-Matrix.com]

These Profile Books are going to rock for Transfans. I've read every Tech Spec ever released, every comic, and thought the old Transformers Universe was a great way to expand on the characters.

The Profile Books will be even better. New art for each character is going to be the biggest attraction, but I have to admit - a 300+ word profile for each one will blow us away.

We've always wanted to know more about the less-popular characters (Bluestreak, Piranacon, Reflector, etc.), and how they made their mark in the Transformers timeline(s). I'm sure the incongruencies between continuities will be smoothed over nicely. And if someone has a problem with Megatron becoming an ActionMaster (1990 release), just accept it!

This book is not going to be a 'bible', but a great collection of Transformers Profiles taken from a universal approach. CK

[pmpknface]

xdemon - Poster "ZacWilliam" said it best. I'll agree that the G1 story was not all it could have been, and that Armada is just, eh. I'm sticking w/ the Armada series until the Furman issues come out (6,7) and if it still bites, than I'm out.

However the War Within is AMAZING! I strongly suggest you give this one a shot - especailly if you're a big Transformers fan. Simon Furman is the MAN!!! Here's my review:

<a href="http://www.zentertainment.com/comicreviews.php?op=showcontent&id=584" target="_blank">pmpknface's review for the War Within on Zentertainment.com</a>

Mellow Doubt - You should be able to get the story on the license deals on other articles here on n-rama. Dreamwave is only allowed to sell their Transformer stuff in the US, so none of those poor Trans-fans get to read any of the comics - unless they get them on ebay or from US retaillers. There are a few foregin destributors working on other deals w/ Hasbro, but nobody is talking yet...

rtvu2 - It says the price in the article, For $12.95, people are going to get way more than their money’s worth.

[MattFreakinLittle]

I'm really pumped and all about this, but when are we FINALLY going to get a G1 cartoon that's treated with some respect like Dreamwave obviously has for the product??? It's enough to make a man want Go-Bots instead (okay, maybe it's not THAT bad...)

[Serious Sam]

greetz Marc Patten:

Is Furman involved in the direction of the Transformers profiles?

Of the Transformers with a good degree of history and characterization, how well has Dreamwave researched these characters? Does Pat Lee know of Transformers mythos beyond the Hasbro G1 toys and Sunbow G1 cartoon? For example, the Japanese cartoon series (Victory, Masterforce et al), and the Transformers UK comics?

Will the best previous incarnation (Skyfire=cartoon) (Ultra Magnus=comic) be used as a guideline for those robots?

Will leaders (Optimus Prime, Scorponok, Ultra Magnus, Thunderwing etc.) get more pages/space for their profiles?

Will the artwork for characters with multiple versions, i.e. 'tank' Megatron + 'handgun' Megatron, be shown? Or will it be just one piece of art per character?

TIA,, ---ss

p.s. Arcee needs to work out with a Thighmaster! 8)

[fujishig]

Hmm... interesting concept.

This is going to anger some fans and make other rejoice. I mean, look at all the ire that the revisionist Beast Wars history had on Transfans...

I think it is a very ambitious project, and I'm definitely much more excited about it then I was before (and I was pretty excited). I love the old Who's Who and Marvel Universe books, even if they are a little dry and had a lot of info that I already knew. This seems to be all new stuff. And to make it comprehensive... I mean, every single micromaster? Geez.

I am a little bummed that they held themselves to this silly constraint that "year 19XX toys came to prominence in Xth millenium." That could get confusing real fast. I mean, a lot of them have "earth vehicle" modes, and would have thus come to earth at some time. And I wonder if that includes the action master toys...

[CoreyB]

I was going to pass this by because it just looked like a picture book in alphabetical order. Unfortunately, money's too tight for pretty pictures. But, it sounds like these things will be bursting with content, so I'm in!

My only concern is that Transformers don't magically have earth-based vehicle modes before they get to Earth.

I was reading the Target: 2006 collection from Titan Books. It was REALLY good, but I had to chuckle when characters on Cybertron were being introduced for the first time transforming in to Earth helicopters or something.

I have other questions (I hope the Action Masters are included, because I actually liked them for their poseability), many have already been asked. From the huge amount of work it seems these people put into it, I'm sure it will all work out.

Can't wait to be blown away!

MyWords

[David Willis]

"That said, this will be the official history that Dreamwave will be using for any future projects. After all, after 1987 or ‘88, there isn’t any official history written anyway, aside from the ‘Tech Specs’"

Except for, y'know... Beast Wars. Which, inside the Transformers fandom, has been possibly the best-loved series out of all of them. If room isn't made for Beast Wars in this new "continuity", then I frankly don't care for it.

Also, there's the matter of characters that were well-developed in the comics apart (and contrary) to their tech specs. Bludgeon? Thunderwing? Nightbeat? Part of why we love these characters is the part they played in history, not what they look like and transform into. If you separate them from their histories, what's there left to love?

Thunderwing isn't just some nasty cheat whose tech spec quote is "Cover yourself with lies and no one will find you." He's a very specific and dynamic Decepticon leader with faults and strengths all his own. Is this Profiles book going to ignore Thunderwing as loved by the Transformers fans, or just rewrite him into some nobody based on his dull tech spec writeup?

Bludgeon, also, the Master of Metallikato, was a very specific personality that expanded past his tech spec portrayal. He was a very deft and agile religious warrior, exact, and he got results. But only in the comic.

And Nightbeat. Dear Lord, if Destination-whatever Entertainment messes him up, I'll defecate on all the copies of TF Profiles I can find.

The histories behind these characters are *why* we love Transformers. It's not their names, or what they look like, or what they turn into. It's what they did, when, how they reacted... and I can't find much room to care about them when the important things are all cast aside.

(That, and it's really hard to believe Dreamwave can't reference past TF stories and events when Beast Wars, Beast Machines, RiD, and the BotCon comics have been doing so with no problem for the past 10 years. Whoops.)

[Serious Sam]

David - yeah I agree. My favorites are Skyfire (cartoon) and Ultra Magnus (comic). Take away their history and rewrite their personalities is silly.
The guys making these new profiles must ensure that good backstories from the previous series are used as inspiration, and not wholey tossed aside.

[David Willis]

I agree. Ratchet just isn't Ratchet unless you mention the 3,239,486 times he's tried to kamikaze himself in order to defeat Megatron. He isn't just some random medic who likes to party. I hope these guys in charge bought the Titan Trade paperbacks of the old G1 run and took notes.

[Jeffbot]

This sounds interesting, although I thought Beast Wars tied the continuities together pretty well.

[Fanboyimus Prime]

I also wonder about Beast Wars(and how come there they could refer to the cartoon and the comic, but Dreamwave can't?).

I think this all the questions we all have running around in our heads:

Will the Maximals/Predacons fit into this? Will there be the Japanese Gen1 Transformers? Will they fit the Gen2 Transformers? Or the Cybertronian Empire? Or Primus? Or the Quintessons? If they don't keep the Quintessons..what will Gnaw's profile be like? Will they fit in the Wreckers? Or the Mayhem Attack Squad? Or the RiD Transformers(like it would be hard to say that all the ones that used the names of the originals were just named after the originals)? How will Unicron fit into this?

I agree with Walky, you take away the history away from some of the characters they are nothing.

And there is something bugging me..why are they referring to the movie as a seperate contunity? I mean the post movie UK comics ended up more or less that way but I know they're not referring to that.

[David Willis]

"Fanboyimus Prime" hit on another thing that made me a little wary. The movie isn't a separate continuity into itself! It's part of the cartoon, and it's part of the comic's future. (Well, in some parts of the comic. Argh, parallel universes. This "reboot" might do some good after all.)

Since when was the movie its own continuity? And if it's its own continuity, then how did season 3 happen? Did Rodimus and Galvatron just pop up out of no where?

[ZacWilliam]

[quote]Originally posted by fujishig:
<strong>Hmm... interesting concept.
I am a little bummed that they held themselves to this silly constraint that "year 19XX toys came to prominence in Xth millenium." That could get confusing real fast. I mean, a lot of them have "earth vehicle" modes, and would have thus come to earth at some time. And I wonder if that includes the action master toys...</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm not against it otherwise, but I agree, the fact that a good number of these have Earth alternate modes is a question mark.

My guess is even if their profiles will describe their adventures on Cybertron millions of years ago, the art will be showing their eventual Earth modes, y'know once they get here.


David Willis wrote:


[quote] Except for, y'know... Beast Wars. Which, inside the Transformers fandom, has been possibly the best-loved series out of all of them. If room isn't made for Beast Wars in this new "continuity", then I frankly don't care for it. <hr></blockquote>

A very good point. I expect through it's lack of mention here is just a mistake (like when he says the DW Armada book is part of the same continuity as their G1 and WWI series, which it definately is not). My guess (and ferverant hope) is that it just isn't mentioned because this series particular focus is G1 and that they'll later do a post-G1 follow up.


[quote] Also, there's the matter of characters that were well-developed in the comics apart (and contrary) to their tech specs. Bludgeon? Thunderwing? Nightbeat? Part of why we love these characters is the part they played in history, not what they look like and transform into. If you separate them from their histories, what's there left to love? <hr></blockquote>

AMEN.

There are a lot of G1 characters that are near total blank slates as the article suggests, but there are also those like the three you mention that have HUGE followings because of the Awesome way Furman wrote them in the G1 comics. Especially in the case of Thunderwing and Bludgeon these aren't much like their tech specs at all. I'm not sure you need th exact events of the old books, in fact I don't think you do, but these three are loved because of the great characters they were presented as in those stories, if you change or subtract that Characterization their fans are defiantely going to be royally pissed.

[Evil_S]

[quote]Originally posted by David Willis:
[QB]Beast Wars. Which, inside the Transformers fandom, has been possibly the best-loved series out of all of them. If room isn't made for Beast Wars in this new "continuity", then I frankly don't care for it.

QB]<hr></blockquote>

Myself and all my friends hopr Beast Wars/Machines will be left out of this. Those were the WORST of the Transformers stories and it's kinda sad that a new generation of Trans Fans were introduced to the Transformers through this rotten series, much like a whole new generation of G-Fans were introduced to Godzilla by that hellish 1998 "Godzilla" movie.
If the Beast things get left out I know a WHOLE lot of folks who wont miss them one single bit.

As for the rest of this, I was re-reading War Within: Preview Book last night and thought to myself how I wish DW would expand on their version of Trans History. It looks like I get my wish and I look forward to reading all of it, I have no complaints about how much reading will be involved in the least.

:D

[fujishig]

Hmm... another question popped into my mind...

The original Transformers toys were a combination of the Japanese Diaclone and Microman (i think that's where Megatron, etc. came from) lines. Later on, Hasbro used toys from other Japanese toy lines. The deluxe Insecticons, Roadbuster and Whirl, and perhaps the most infamous of all, the toy Jetfire, which was a Macross Valkyrie. Now does Hasbro still own the rights to these likenesses in America, or will the books have to skip over these (admittedly minor) characters? I'd assume that's why they were left out of the cartoon (and Jetfire/Skyfire became a whole different Transformer).

[David Willis]

[quote]There are a lot of G1 characters that are near total blank slates as the article suggests, but there are also those like the three you mention that have HUGE followings because of the Awesome way Furman wrote them in the G1 comics. Especially in the case of Thunderwing and Bludgeon these aren't much like their tech specs at all. I'm not sure you need th exact events of the old books, in fact I don't think you do, but these three are loved because of the great characters they were presented as in those stories, if you change or subtract that Characterization their fans are defiantely going to be royally pissed. <hr></blockquote>

Zac's right. I don't mind so much if exact events aren't mentioned for people such as Nightbeat. You don't have to say "Oh, he was on one of the Matrix Quest teams and he defeated Thunderwing and later dug Ratchet/Megatron out of Unspace". Just... tell us what he's like. Tell us about how he loves mysteries, that he's a detective. Tell us how he always gets way over his head in trouble yet always ends up on top. Tell us about his witty retorts and asides that endear us to him.

[David Willis]

[quote]Originally posted by Evil_S:

Myself and all my friends hopr Beast Wars/Machines will be left out of this. Those were the WORST of the Transformers stories and it's kinda sad that a new generation of Trans Fans were introduced to the Transformers through this rotten series, much like a whole new generation of G-Fans were introduced to Godzilla by that hellish 1998 "Godzilla" movie.
If the Beast things get left out I know a WHOLE lot of folks who wont miss them one single bit.
[/QB]<hr></blockquote>

Never actually watched the series, did you? Second season? No? Didn't think so.

[Bloodcat]

Yep. Most people who hate Beast Wars are people who didn't actually WATCH Beast Wars.

I was ambivalent of it. Till I visited Ben Yee's <a href="http://www.bwtf.com" target="_blank">www.bwtf.com</a> page. Then I knew what the show was really about, and watched it religiously.

And im currently buying the DVDs, something I didn't bother to do with Generation 1.

Good to see some ATTers here. Brings back memories of my (then easily trolled) time there.

Raksha still posting the odd Decepticon manifesto along with her boy Skyflight? :)

As to the comic.

I wasn't gonna get it, but now I might, but if they screw up Scorponok, I will NOT be amused. In the original comic, he was the man!

If the new continuity doesn't have him getting up on Unicron's foot and hacking away, its not a continuity I will like.

[Mellow Doubt]

[quote]Originally posted by pmpknface:
<strong>Mellow Doubt - You should be able to get the story on the license deals on other articles here on n-rama. Dreamwave is only allowed to sell their Transformer stuff in the US, so none of those poor Trans-fans get to read any of the comics - unless they get them on ebay or from US retaillers. There are a few foregin destributors working on other deals w/ Hasbro, but nobody is talking yet...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Is this is a recent development? Because I've been getting my Dreamwave TF fix over here in Indonesia without a hitch, be it G1, Armada, War Within and all the assorted previews. Is Diamond excluded from the Hasbro restrictions?

[Mellow Doubt]

[quote]Originally posted by RichardS:
<strong>P.S. Jae Lee made a pigs-ear of Arcee (see picture above). Terrible rendition. However, the other images all look great!</strong><hr></blockquote>

That Arcee pic was by Don Figueroa (hence the "Don" signature). If you're gonna slag someone off, at least get it right (poor Jae!). :D

[Chris]

This is, quite possibly, the dream project for a fan like me. If they really want to get *everyone*, then they can't forget Reflector, Camshaft, Downshift, and Overdrive (Omnibots). Having Time Warrior would be a surprise.

That said, my biggest concern is Fortress Maximus. He is probably my favorite character in all of Transfandom, and it's the comic that made it that way. I'll be VERY disappointed if he's just another CITY.

The other minor concern is Nightbeat. Hopefully it's not too late for this, but I want to see Nightbeat and Siren's faces switched to how they were in the comic. Nightbeat's expressions just wouldn't be the same without the 'visor' look. Heck, Dreamwave could try to slip Minerva in, the Japanese version of Nightbeat, and have another female Transformer in the books... She was VERY different from the 'Beatster.


Chris

[David Willis]

While I agree that it would be cool for Nightbeat to have his shades, Dreamwave doesn't have the rights to Minerva. They only have rights to US characters. They can't touch the Japanese stuff.

[MCF]

What's gonna happen to us international Transformers fans? There are fans outside of UK, Europe and Australia you know.

I've been depending on the Dreamwave books here in Malaysia, and I've been very sad since Hasbro pulled the plug on Diamond and Dreamwave's distribution of the comics.

I sincerely doubt if any local publishing houses are gonna pick up the license from Hasbro, and I hope that somehow Hasbro and Dreamwave are able to work something out. Everything obviously boils down to $$$.

Or, if Titan gets the license, I hope they get to sell them internationally, just like their current reprints of the original Marvel Comics series.

Anyone have any info on this??

[Darth Zealous]

The Profiles looks great but I just hope no-one counters the Megatron-Galvatron link. I want Galvatron to remain the future incarnation of Megatron. Anyone else agree?

[utiti77]

I don't get it. I just don't get it. OK, Spider-man appears in issue 2 of the Transformers Marvel comic, but apart from that, there is practically zero reference to the Marvel Universe in it. OK, Circuit Breaker, the Neo-Knights and Death's Head are owned by Marvel, but it was pretty clear from the beginning, and apart from DH they're pretty shitty characters anyway and don't have much to do with the Transformers' histories anyway. But I don't understand why someone who's licensing TFs can't refer to the history of the Transformers themselves in these books...

Is there a Spike toy? A Sparkplug toy (the human, not the tiny Bumblebee clone from Armada)? An Arcee Toy ? No, there isn't, but Dreamwave has and will use them in their books. I just don't understand how Hasbro can grant Dreamwave the authorization to use *some* stuff and not some *other* stuff.

Does it mean they can't use Unicron ? Hasbro *did* produce a prototype toy for that character, didn't they ? Can't they use Junkions, Quintessons, Sharkticons?

Did I miss some small legal blah-blah on the Marvel Comics that explains that Primus also is (c) Marvel ?

I just don't get it. I thought Hasbro was a business, out to make money. How could they let Marvel hold up what is obviously part of their property? I can understand that Marvel is to be paid reprint rights when Titan issues trades of their G1 and G2 series, but how can they own part of the characters' history ? It's beyond my grasp.

I live in a foreign country where TransFandom is definitely *not* as developed as in the States or Japan, although most people have heard of the Transformers. Now is the perfect time to introduce people to the TF mythos. The continuity was already a mess, but easily fixed through translation changes and/or articles. Now we have an *all-new* continuity that will only last as long as Dreamwave licenses the TFs, if I understand correctly. That makes things quite complicated if you want to introduce people to older stuff like the Marvel comic & cartoon or the Japanese sequels. I just don't understand how Hasbro can let that kind of stuff happen. This is not Image Comics, folks, this is a licensing deal. Hasbro should just get the whole package, continuity included, work for hire style.

Like I said, the Transformer continuities were fine. Not totally compatible with each other, but that was easy to fix. This brilliant idea of following "milleniums" according to the years in which the Transformers were created in the real world is just dumb. How will they explain that the Pretenders appeared in a time when the Transformers had never seen a human being in their lives ? They haven't even finished the book and there are already problems. Isn't that enough of a hint?

And isn't that just weird that Marvel holds on some Transformers concepts created in their comic and cartoon, just like the Image artists wanted to hold on their own creations while remaining in the Marvel Universe all those years ago ?

Ah, the power of lawyers...

It's the same kind of sticky mess as Micronauts, I tell you... Soon we'll see thinly-disguised Transformers in the next Alex Ross "Someting X" project, or an unofficial sequel ŕ la SpaceKnights...

:mad:

[utiti77]

And another thing...

If it's such a "legal hassle" to use characters supposedly owned by Marvel (even though it was never officially stated anywhere) in a new Transformers project, how come the Hartman brothers, who organize the Botcon convention, had the rights to use characters such as Alpha Trion, Primus, or Nightbird (the ninja robot), all from the Marvel comic or Marvel/Sunbow cartoon in their 2002 "Wreckers" comic?

The more I think of it, the less it makes sense to me.

Who knows, maybe next time Warner licenses Batman to some other toy-maker, they will ask them to make an action figure without no cape, no pointy ears, no bat-logo... "Because you know, we used to work with Kenner, and now... Well, legal reasons, you see... You can't use that stuff anymore. But you can call your toy Batman !! Just give us a big check and prepare to lose lots of money..."

Stupid, stupid white men.

:mad:

[jclem3]

[quote]Originally posted by Mellow Doubt:
<strong>
By the way, what's all this about international readers not being able to get their TF comic fix?</strong><hr></blockquote>


Hey MD! This situation arose from the fact that Hasbro informed Diamond that Diamond is not licensed to distribute its products (which includes comic books) outside of the United States. This means that by November, all Transformers comics will only be available to the U.S. retailers. There is a company that is licensed in Australia to reprint the comics but those are just reprints.

So, we in the world outside the United States will be deprived of our Transformers books. Thanks a lot to Hasbro who'll undoubtedly get the support for its products around the world.
:mad:

[Marc Patten]

[quote]Originally posted by TemporalFlux:
<strong>

I can already think of one possibility, but it's not necessarily what they used. I would take an expanded meaning on the "Pretender" concept to make it work. They weren't the real ones...just pretenders. ;) </strong><hr></blockquote>

You know, that would have make perfect sense... where were you 4 months ago, Flux? Too bad that's not how they'll all fit, but remember, you only have a few months to wait.

Marc :cool:

[Marc Patten]

The REAL question is how are you guys going to handle characters that don't seem able to fit your new timeline at all:

How can you introduce Goldbug in the 4th MY Story-Arc when Bumblebee was on the Ark that had already left and crashed on Earth?

How can Megatron become Galvatron in the 3rd Arc when he's gone and crashed, then become Megs again by the 7th Arc?

Okay Zak,

Here's some thoughts and answers that will give you a headache for the next two months ( I have one so why shouldn't all of Transfandom...)

• If Galvatron pops up in the 3rd Arc after Megatron is apparently gone, what happens to him in the Seventh Arc?

• Maybe Goldbug isn't actually Bumblebee OR Maybe he is... heh, heh, heh.

• The only real annswer I'll give is that yes we are using tidbits of Cartoon AND comic history as springboards where applicable. That includes idea that may have orignated in the British
comics as well.

The Book "Prime Targets" by Lars Pearson is a huge comprehensive history of all previous TV, Movie and Both Comic series continuity for TF, BW and BM--Highly recommended reading. Incidentally Lars will be joining our writing staff on this project with Book 2 and he's been a huge asset. :cool:

[Marc Patten]

[quote]Originally posted by David Willis:
<strong>"The histories behind these characters are *why* we love Transformers. It's not their names, or what they look like, or what they turn into. It's what they did, when, how they reacted... and I can't find much room to care about them when the important things are all cast aside.

(That, and it's really hard to believe Dreamwave can't reference past TF stories and events when Beast Wars, Beast Machines, RiD, and the BotCon comics have been doing so with no problem for the past 10 years. Whoops.)</strong><hr></blockquote>

Okay Let me try and set the record stright and ease the anxiety of the masses.

First of all, We here at DE are well aware and versed in all the various Transformers lore, including the various Japanese series, G2 toys and comics, Machine Wars, European toys, etc. including BW/BM- which in my opinion still ocured in the prehistoric Earth Past and Cybertronian far future

--and remember, In those shows it is referenced that the Great War was Autobots versues Decepticons only, so BM continuity occurs AFTER the Great War.

(Sidenote: I love Beast Wars and Beast Machines. Period. Possible even more than classic G1. If there is any kind of comic project that arises with these characters, you can bet we'll be at the head of the line to craft stories on everyones favorite Mecha Monkey.)

Second, remember, this Profiles series is for American Generation One characters ONLY, so whiel we may hint at or reference some things like BW, it is the G1 characters that are center stage here. If the Demand is there, mayber Dreamwave and Hasbro will consider doing stories or Profile Books for Other TF incarnations, I don't know.

Thirdly, While we can't promise we'll please every body with every entry, we'll do our best. Feel free to e-mail us suggestions (KEEP THEM BRIEF) for characters beyond the Letter 'E'.

We ARE looking at the comics versus cartoon histories and personalities for many characters as wer write and are trying to take the best of both world where possible.

While Simon Furman isn't directly involved with Profiles, we are in contact with him and have read 4 of the War Within Scripts so far, so we don't contradict one another. He is a temendous help, and a hell of a nice guy.

Hope that helps ease the pain gang. Gotta get back to writing. I'm thinking of making Kup a whussy Army deserter --Whadda ya think?? (Kidding!! I'm Kidding!!)

best, --Marc
:cool:

[Serious Sam]

Marc - your reply is welcomed. Thank you.

Don't mess up Sky/Jetfire or Magnus! :p


Will Galvatron be a "seperate entity, but related" to Megatron?

Will Bumblebee be the same soul as Goldbug, or will Goldbug be a new character?

[Mellow Doubt]

[quote]Originally posted by jclem3:
<strong>Hey MD! This situation arose from the fact that Hasbro informed Diamond that Diamond is not licensed to distribute its products (which includes comic books) outside of the United States. This means that by November, all Transformers comics will only be available to the U.S. retailers. There is a company that is licensed in Australia to reprint the comics but those are just reprints.

So, we in the world outside the United States will be deprived of our Transformers books. Thanks a lot to Hasbro who'll undoubtedly get the support for its products around the world. :mad: </strong><hr></blockquote>

Thanks for clearing that up, somewhat. I won't even try to comprehend the legal shenanigans behind this, so I'll just say that it sucks big time. Maybe some solace can be had from the fact that it's not just us South East Asians that are getting the shaft, but then again, that's not much consolation if it means having to miss out on the continuation of The War Within...Matt, Michael, please do a story about this and shed some light as to whether there's a possibility that Hasbro will change their collective minds (which don't seem to be working at the moment).

[David Willis]

[quote] Second, remember, this Profiles series is for American Generation One characters ONLY, so whiel we may hint at or reference some things like BW, it is the G1 characters that are center stage here.

We ARE looking at the comics versus cartoon histories and personalities for many characters as wer write and are trying to take the best of both world where possible.
<hr></blockquote>

That's all I really ask for. Thanks.

[Marc Patten]

[quote]Originally posted by utiti77:
<strong>Bumblebee clone from Armada)? An Arcee Toy ? No, there isn't, but Dreamwave has and will use them in their books. I just don't understand how Hasbro can grant Dreamwave the authorization to use *some* stuff and not some *other* stuff. :mad: </strong><hr></blockquote>

Okay this is my last post today, and really, we won't be able to please everyone, but hopefully most will like what we've done.

To respond: No one said Dreamwave didn't have the rights to use the charactes youmentioned or that they wouldn't appear in the profiles books. What was said was that they don't have clear rights to base stories off the spefic continutiies like the Marvel Comics or the Movie. That's not to say that the movie characters won't show there faces someday in DW comics, but that like the old Marvel comics that didn't continue with the movie history like the UK books did, DW isn't going to follow those lines either. That's why their present day continuity G1 books appear roughly within season two TV continuity.

Capeesh??

Marc
Destination Entertainment, LLC
destinent1@aol.com

[TJMD]

[quote]Originally posted by Marc Patten:
<strong>• Maybe Goldbug isn't actually Bumblebee OR Maybe he is... heh, heh, heh.</strong><hr></blockquote>

But his Tech Specs state that he *IS* Bumblebee. I thought you guys were using the tech specs?

I'm so confused. but it's all good, I just want this collection so bad, I can taste syrup.

Oh wait, that's my syrup on my waffles.

[TJMD]

[quote]Originally posted by Marc Patten:
<strong>Capeesh??</strong><hr></blockquote>

Capeesh. As long as I get my Transformers Fix, I'll be happy. Mmmmm Transformers Waffles. Mmmmm....

Dammit, December can't get here fast enough! Now! I want Profiles now!

[David Willis]

[quote] The Book "Prime Targets" by Lars Pearson is a huge comprehensive history of all previous TV, Movie and Both Comic series continuity for TF, BW and BM--Highly recommended reading. Incidentally Lars will be joining our writing staff on this project with Book 2 and he's been a huge asset. <hr></blockquote>

As a cautionary thing, Mr. Patten, don't take what Mr. Pearson says as complete gospel. After all, according to "Prime Targets," Ravage is a DOG. Eek. Talk about an error...

[ZacWilliam]

As someone else said, HUGE THANKS for posting this stuff Marc. :) It's great to get info straight from the source and I think your posts today have probably assuaged a lot of anxiety raised for some by the original artical.

It all sounds GREAT. :) I really CAN NOT WAIT to hold this book in my hands. December wont be here soon enough. You're right, you wont be able to please absolutely everybody, but keep up the good work and I think you'll please far more than you wont.

(Oh, and I'll definately be sending in some thoughts/suggestions once I get some free time.)

Anyway, keep it up and thanks again.

[Karl V]

Okay, now on the "oh my god how this can this and this happen when they haven't been on Earth" camp...

I think Nebulos {Nebulon?} will get heavy play as far as the *masters and any humanoid shells... should those Pretenders that didn't crash on Earth get any...
It would lean towards the Marvel intrepretation, but it makes sense. The Transformers were a space faring race after all and no doubt the Great Wars affected more than just Cybertron.
And, I'm sure they managed NOT to crash on every planet they visit...
Also, there is no absolute gospel that dictates that the preliminary shells have to be humanoid either...
There were other methods of Pretenders {like Gunrunner...who simply had a car shell he could drive...}

Anyway, don't jump the gun until this thing is out and let's see how well these guys play the game with the profile book.
I'm silently hoping for how they would use NeoKnights since obviously they can't use their backstory but Hasbro technically owns them...hehe

[STEVO2275]

COOL AND SWEET

[Chris]

Hm... Okay, it could be concievable that the series 4-6 charcters get their "earth vehicle" modes, and human pretender shells on Nebulos--er.. Nebulon. But if that's the case, the Nebulon components would be long dead... unless their lifespans were different from humans. Or the binary bonding made them immortal. I just want to see these characters show up in the comic... I must have my fix of Fort Max and Nightbeat again.


Thanks!
Chris

EDIT: Oh, by the way, I really hope someone's going to fix that red Bumblebee on the cover to Profiles Book One. Unless he's colored that way on purpose, of course...

[Karl V]

Well the conversion process might prolong their life given the fact that their bodies are essentially made into cyborgs. Or perhaps they perfected a process to transfer the organic minds to the robot bodies... {a weird amalgalm of Japanese and US cartoon continuity....}
But, still, there's a lot of room for interpretation out there. We've been nicely given the basis for the plans but I want to see the execution to pass my judgement.

[Mark the Devil]

[quote]Originally posted by Chris:
<strong>

The other minor concern is Nightbeat. Hopefully it's not too late for this, but I want to see Nightbeat and Siren's faces switched to how they were in the comic. Nightbeat's expressions just wouldn't be the same without the 'visor' look. Heck, Dreamwave could try to slip Minerva in, the Japanese version of Nightbeat, and have another female Transformer in the books... She was VERY different from the 'Beatster.


Chris</strong><hr></blockquote>

Funny you should mention Nightbeat Chris since I'm working on him/her right now as we speak for the Sourcebook(also did the Bumblebee Pretender you see in the article ;) ). I did my research on the character and found some images from the cartoon including Minerva and the original design. While I have to stick mainly with the toy and Hasbro incarnation, I wanted to honor the Japanese version in some way. While it won't be a completely female version of the character and won't include Minerva(lagalities :p ), it should be a pleasant surprise for Trans fans. The downside is that you'll have to wait until book #3 to see it :(

-Mark Brooks

[David Willis]

....

If you infuse Nightbeat with ANY part of that horrible horrible HORRIBLE character Minerva, I will never forgive you as long as you live.

God damn you.

[Chris]

[quote]Originally posted by Mark the Devil:
<strong>

Funny you should mention Nightbeat Chris since I'm working on him/her right now as we speak for the Sourcebook(also did the Bumblebee Pretender you see in the article ;) ). I did my research on the character and found some images from the cartoon including Minerva and the original design. While I have to stick mainly with the toy and Hasbro incarnation, I wanted to honor the Japanese version in some way. While it won't be a completely female version of the character and won't include Minerva(lagalities :p ), it should be a pleasant surprise for Trans fans. The downside is that you'll have to wait until book #3 to see it :(

-Mark Brooks</strong><hr></blockquote>

Tread carefully. The comic depiction of Nightbeat is the sole reason so many people love him. Minerva is not Nightbeat. Heck, in Japan, they DID eventually release Nightbeat as a mail-order figure. So please, I beg you, use as much comic concepts that you have, or you'll have drones of Nightbeat fans screaming for blood. There's got to be some way you can keep the visor 'shades' that the comic had. It really enhanced his 'cool factor'. Please? If Ratchet and Ironhide can look like their other incarnations, is it too much to ask of Nightbeat?


Thanks
Chris

[David Willis]

....no, no, really. "Pleasant surprise"? There goes my spleen. Why don't you just punch me in the face instead? At least that heals...

Argh. There's absolutely no way I can write down the severity of my displeasure. Seriously, is this some form of personal hell?

[Chris]

Wait, I just caught something after I posted.

[quote]Originally posted by Mark the Devil:
<strong>
While I have to stick mainly with the toy and Hasbro incarnation, I wanted to honor the Japanese version in some way. While it won't be a completely female version of the character and won't include Minerva(lagalities :p ), it should be a pleasant surprise for Trans fans.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Muzzle's going to be female, isn't he? THAT I can deal with. Muzzle's never been depicted in any incarnation outside of the toy and the TFU entry (even though the Marvel Nightbeat was never a Headmaster in the actual issues).


Thanks again!
Chris

[Mark the Devil]

I think you guys are misreading my post. Minerva isn't going to be included what so ever since Dreamwave and Hasbro have no right to her. Nightbeat has to follow the Hasbro design since it's the Hasbro license that Dreamwave has. That's the vision I have to follow and no others. Everyone breath, it's going to be okay :)
-Mark

[Karl V]

Nice Pretender Bumblebee Mark...all though the visor helmet looks a bit too Cyclops of X-Men to me. Still, can't help it with the toy as a reference I guess...
I think the worry is how exactly you intend to show an homage to Minerva with Nightbeat's pic. ;-)

[David Willis]

I know Nightbeat isn't going to be Minerva. I just don't want Nightbeat to be a girl. Or look like Minerva in blue and yellow.

I'm...sorry if I'm harsh. But it feels like you've got my undercarriage in a vice. I was really happy for this project this morning. It was doing everything right. But now suddenly the artist for my favorite character in the world says he wants to add elements from my LEAST favorite character in the world. Why, lord, why?

If it's any consolation, I love your Pretender Bumblebee art. It's great. Sure, the face isn't very fleshy, but I understand you were told to make the Pretenders robotic. It's not your fault, and it looks cool anyway. I just wish you could use that skill on my favorite character to make him look like... well, Nightbeat. Not Nightbeat with added extrogen and miniskirts.

Nightbeat is a detective. He's hardboiled. He's witty. He gets in scrapes over his head all the time. I don't want him to be dainty.

If you want good Nightbeat references, start here: <a href="http://comics.tfarchive.com/issue62_page1.shtml" target="_blank">http://comics.tfarchive.com/issue62_page1.shtml</a> This is one of the best Nightbeat stories, and it's got plenty of him. Read it! Love it! And then I'll be your friend for life.

(So bi-polar.)

[Chris]

I never said you were going to make Minerva. (Though if DW could get the rights to do Masterforce and other Japanese characters, it'd be really great!)

I just asked for a small cosmetic change. It's a lot less drastic than the way Ratchet and Ironhide are depicted in every media save their toys. The character itself in the comic isn't a huge stretch from the Tech Spec. He's a detective, and does what he needs to do to get the job done. Nowhere in the spec does it say Muzzle is male, by the way... :D Only that Muzzle is a detective, too.


Chris

[Mark the Devil]

Thanks guys, glad you liked the Bumblebee pic. I had to stick to the toy as closely as possible and, since there's very little reference for the Pretender, I had to use the toy and boxart as my only reference. It was also the first one of the 20 I'm doing so it was a learning experience none the less.

As for Nightbeat, believe me, I do a ton or reserach for each character I'm doing and understand fully the fan following Nightbeat has. Mr. Willis, I promise no side skirts or whatever you have invisioned in your head. Nightbeat is a male Transformer and will remain that way. In fact, the box art is my main source of reference so don't worry Mr. Willis, you can breath easy that what you'll see will be pleasing to all the hardcore Nightbeat fans out there. Trust me, I won't let the fans down.

Thanks guys,
-Mark

[David Willis]

Thanks for being patient with me, sir. I rest easy for now.

(For now. Bwa ha ha.)

[Mark the Devil]

[quote]Originally posted by Chris:
<strong>I never said you were going to make Minerva. (Though if DW could get the rights to do Masterforce and other Japanese characters, it'd be really great!)

I just asked for a small cosmetic change. It's a lot less drastic than the way Ratchet and Ironhide are depicted in every media save their toys. The character itself in the comic isn't a huge stretch from the Tech Spec. He's a detective, and does what he needs to do to get the job done. Nowhere in the spec does it say Muzzle is male, by the way... :D Only that Muzzle is a detective, too.


Chris</strong><hr></blockquote>

Good point Chris but I always invisioned the headmaster units(the heads themselves) much like Metroid. Underneath all that armor who's to really say what sex the person is. The only part you can actually see of the person's skin is their eyes, the rest is up to the imagination ;)

[Darth Zealous]

Perhaps with Characters such a Galvatron, Cyclonus, SCourge and Rodimus Prime they will take the position not unlike the UK comics that they are incarnations of old characters but from an alternate universes?
But with the Megatron/Galvatron nexus surely it is such a widely accepted and popular piece of Transformers lore that they will leave it alone just change some of the details of Galvatrons creation.
Perhaps also some characters will be outside the arc timeline they are creating, exceptions such as the aforementioned characters.

[Nexus Prime]

Hey Mark, that gives me an idea. How about using Metroid as one of the heads for a Headmaster? If Arcee stays a Headmaster and Daniel isn't around (fingers crossed) you can just use Samus (Metroid) as Arcee's head. It would be perfect, you coul... wait a sec I've got a knock at the door...BANG!!!CRASH!!!! Um.. I have to run, I have a squad of Japanese lawyers here armed with briefcases and neckties...and ?????? two italian plumbers ?!?!?!? :eek:

[jclem3]

[quote]Originally posted by Mellow Doubt:
<strong>
please do a story about this and shed some light as to whether there's a possibility that Hasbro will change their collective minds (which don't seem to be working at the moment).</strong><hr></blockquote>

Mellow, check out this article. It may help you out. I posted here as JOSE.

<a href="http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=36&t=000335" target="_blank">http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=36&t=000335</a>

[Darth Zealous]

Hasbro screws us again!

It now turns out that every Dreamwave Transformers comics/books, including the new Profile Books are going to be denied to Australian until 2003!
Shame Hasbro, shame! :mad:

[FortressMaximus]

Mark-If it's okay I'd like to ask a question on a related Tanget.

Even though I am a huge Headmaster fan (and of Headmaster Arcee in particular) another of my favorite aspects of the G1 comic were the Neo Knights (and if THIS, combined with my love for HM Arcee doesn't tell everyone on list who I am then I give up ;) ).

I mentioned this to a few Dreamwave folks at Botcon but never got a clear answer: Does DW own the rights to the Knights as part of their winning the property from Marvel? If so I'd LOVE to see them in the book. I've even talked to Simon Furman about the aborted post-G1 one-shot that was tentatively planned years ago. If you can do it, I'll be forever grateful. If not at least I gave it a shot. THANKS!

Fortress Maximus aka Don Ferguson

[FortressMaximus]

(quick correction as my syntax sucked last post)

When I said ". I've even talked to Simon Furman about the aborted post-G1 one-shot that was tentatively planned years ago. If you can do it, I'll be forever grateful" I meant if you can add the Neo-Knights to the Dreamwave book, not if you can do the one-shot (because as far as I know very little of the initial work surivied the past decade).


Sorry for the bad phrasing!

F_M (aka Don)

[Robert Powers]

[quote]As for Nightbeat, believe me, I do a ton or reserach for each character I'm doing and understand fully the fan following Nightbeat has. Mr. Willis, I promise no side skirts or whatever you have invisioned in your head. Nightbeat is a male Transformer and will remain that way. In fact, the box art is my main source of reference so don't worry Mr. Willis, you can breath easy that what you'll see will be pleasing to all the hardcore Nightbeat fans out there. Trust me, I won't let the fans down.
<hr></blockquote>

The box art?! .....ack.

While I hate to join the chorus of fans shrieking about something that we haven't even seen yet, this statement worries me. The box art had.... well, pretty much nothing to do with making Nightbeat memorable. What did that was his characterization in the comics -- and he sure wasn't drawn like the box art there.

I second what the esteemed Mr. Willis has said. Read the old comic issues (#62, #66, and #69 are good ones for Nightbeat.) That's what Nightbeat's all about.

And I'll second the vote for Fortress Maximus being based on his comic characterization. He was a real, empathic, interesting character there.... not a big mongo giant whose sole characterization consists of "he is big".

[Chris]

Wait, I think we've got some mix-up here.

Marc (with a C) is doing the writing for a group of characters, right?

Mark (with a K) is doing the art for 20 or so characters (such as Pretender Bumblebee).

I think we're shooting the wrong kind of responses and suggestions at the wrong people.

Unless I'm wrong...

Chris

[Serious Sam]

Robert Powers said :
"And I'll second the vote for Fortress Maximus being based on his comic characterization. He was a real, empathic, interesting character there.... not a big mongo giant whose sole characterization consists of 'he is big'."

I totally agree. And the same for Scorponok - he should have his noble comic book personality. Because his cartoon 'personality' didn't really exist!

Marc P/Destination crew -
I recommend the Titan trade paperback UK comic reprints of 'TARGET: 2006' and 'FALLEN Angel' for great characterisation of ULtra Magnus and Galvatron.

And Death's Head! *wink* :D

[FortressMaximus]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Serious Sam:
[QB]Robert Powers said :
"And I'll second the vote for Fortress Maximus being based on his comic characterization. He was a real, empathic, interesting character there.... not a big mongo giant whose sole characterization consists of 'he is big'."

I totally agree. And the same for Scorponok - he should have his noble comic book personality. Because his cartoon 'personality' didn't really exist!

*****Well, I've always been of the opinion that, by Rebirth, the writers 1) knew they didn't have time to actually show Fortress Maximus's growing personality 2)tried to avoid 'hey, he didn't see Vector Sigma so how did he get a personality!' problem and 3) they simply didn't care and glossed over the whole thing.

For me, the best of both worlds is his comic book personality while being paired with Spike from the cartoon. Nothing against Galen, but there's something richly satisfying about finally having Spike be able to finally have the power to help the 'Bots stop the Decepticons once and for all.

Now if we can just find Carly a 'Bot to binary-bond too... ;)

F_M (aka Don F.)

[David Willis]

[quote]The box art?! .....ack.<hr></blockquote>

The box art rules! Ha ha ha ha!

(Willis and Powers fight.)

[Dark Star]

All very interesting and all, and I can't wait to see how the DE team does. However my one worry is that connections between the show and the comics will be lost, and I would hate to see that.

Things like the way Hound really enjoys earth, or (as Zac and others have pointed out) the Starscream-Skyfire connection. (This story alone fleshed out quite a bit about Starscream.) Bumblebee being a spy, Soundwaves cassettes, and the reason why the Combatacons were all insane.

And hopefully they'll beable to come up with a way to explain the differences of characters in the Cartoon vs them in the book. (Ex: Starscream being a Scientist in the 'toon, and him being a War Lord ruling a city in the comic.)

DS

[David Willis]

I'm wondering how they're going to handle Wreck-Gar. By their re-adjustments, he'd "rise to prominence" in the "millennium" after Prime and Megatron leave for Earth. ....but his single and only character trait is the fact that he talks in Earth television commercials.

Hrm.

[Nexus Prime]

Some of these continuity bones can be mended and some will have to be completely broken so that they can be realligned and healed properly.

[Karl V]

Someone else who likes NeoKnights....wooooo!
There is much joy in the world.
Anyway, as far as Marvel's deal with Hasbro on any characters that appeared in Transformers. They were specifically to be passed to Hasbro per the contract.
Simon Furman went out of his way to put the original Death's Head in an article outside of TF before actually displaying him in the Transformer comic...therefore Hasbro wouldn't own the property.
So technically Hasbro owns the rights to the characters names of the NeoKnights.
Unfortunately, there's a catch 22. Marvel owns the backstory to the characters themselves.
If DW decided to use the Neoknights, it would have to be in a new intrepretation...

[Kintoun]

EDIT: Oh, by the way, I really hope someone's going to fix that red Bumblebee on the cover to Profiles Book One. Unless he's colored that way on purpose, of course...[/QB][/QUOTE]

Good point. At first, I thought the Autobot standing on Defensor's right shoulder was Cliffjumper but Transformers Generation One #3 Autobot cover edition definitely supports your claim. For one thing, Pat Lee correctly established that Bumblebee's feet are much less angular than those of Cliffjumper. It's also important to note that Bumblebee's helmet surrounds his chin unlike Cliffjumper. I'm sure Don Figueroa intended for that Minicar to be Bumblebee but I guess the colorist accidentaly assumed it was Cliffjumper.

Kintoun

[Kintoun]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by utiti77:

Is there a Spike toy? A Sparkplug toy (the human, not the tiny Bumblebee clone from Armada)? An Arcee Toy ? No, there isn't, but Dreamwave has and will use them in their books. I just don't understand how Hasbro can grant Dreamwave the authorization to use *some* stuff and not some *other* stuff.

Actually, a Spike figure and numerous Arcee toys do exist. Fortress Maximus was the most expensive American Transformer item available in 1987 and the Headmaster Leader's tech spec specifically mentions he's binary-bonded to Spike. As for Arcee, her first ever transformable toy was finally released at Botcon 2001. You're right that no (human) Sparkplug collectible of any kind was produced by Hasbro though.

Kintoun

[FortressMaximus]

[quote]Originally posted by Karl V:
<strong>Someone else who likes NeoKnights....wooooo!
There is much joy in the world.
Anyway, as far as Marvel's deal with Hasbro on any characters that appeared in Transformers. They were specifically to be passed to Hasbro per the contract.
Simon Furman went out of his way to put the original Death's Head in an article outside of TF before actually displaying him in the Transformer comic...therefore Hasbro wouldn't own the property.
So technically Hasbro owns the rights to the characters names of the NeoKnights.
Unfortunately, there's a catch 22. Marvel owns the backstory to the characters themselves.
If DW decided to use the Neoknights, it would have to be in a new intrepretation...</strong><hr></blockquote>


*********That helps clear up the matter somewhat, but knowing Marvel they are going to sit on the rights until hell freezes over just so no one else can use or enjoy the characters even if they have NO plans to use them at all.

If I had the cash I'd buy the rights lock, stock and barrell to the Knights from Marvel so I could do something with them! The concept and the team just sitting in storage seems like a huge waste (kinda like Fortress from the end of issue 51 to #79 :p ).

FortressMaximus (aka Don F.)

[Karl V]

Well there is a rare opportunity for Furman to use them and Death's Head in the Marvel X-Over if he takes that opportunity. But it's less doubtful with the team and more probable with DH himself.
Fortunately there is always fiction by fans...

[Starscream]

I think this Profiles project is probably the worst thing to have happened to Transformers since BW and BM. This is my opinion and I have every right to it please.

We don't need /another/ canon, we need the ones we have FIXED. And this certainly wont do it. I feel this will cause more problems then repair. I don't care how much its dressed up by those that are doing this project, I think its still wrong. The comic and the cartoon canon need to say separate. We don't need to keep coming out with new projects. We need to focus the creative energy into repairing what's there and what's stood for nearly 20 years. You cant just 'throw this stuff out the door'. Not as long as some of its stood in the fandom. This whole thing is just a bad idea. To half the fans the wrong elements will be used and to others the right ones will be used. Better yet I think the 3rd theory will play here. A third will love it, a third wont care and a third will hate it. But as long as that third has the most money who cares right? ;)

I see Profiles splitting the fandom even more then it already is. ..... TF characters have their own groups of fans on top of the fans that like the whole concept. I shudder to think what the Starscream fan group is going to do when they see the 'new' and to some, butchered, new profile for this very popular character. I don't want to be around a certain Soundwave fan when his new and to some, butchered, profile comes out.

So congratulations goes out to those in charge of what for me is certainly the biggest fiasco with the Transformer logo tacked onto it yet. I would love to be wrong but I see too many subtle comments here and there by those in charge to give me any faith that I could be wrong.

Not that it really matters but I'm slightly curious as to just how many suggestions will /really/ be used and how much the fans will really be listened to… I really don't expect much of either to be honest.

Now I've said my peace and will go back to lurking.

Carry on :)

[Serious Sam]

Starscream - are you the same person from Dreamwaves' Messageboard (xsorbit) ?

[Starscream]

Oh one thing I forgot to comment on.
What's up with the Movie being considered its own canon? Who came up with that? Why is this so? 3(?) canons isn't enough and we have to make it 4 to add the 5th (profiles) to? I'm really, really confused and curious as why the movie is considered its own canon. That just doesn't make any sense. Is this a glimpse of the creativity that is going behind the scenes for this profiles book?

The way I always viewed it you had:

1. series/ movie/ season 3
2. comics

I'm actually a bit confused as to why the toys are considered their own canon as well. But I can see it either way with them to be honest. The card stats could stand on its own or go with either canon (cartoon/comic).

But I would appreciate an answer as to why the movie was separated from its canon and made its own canon. That means season 3 is a separate canon from seasons 1&2… I don't understand this but I really hope its got nothing to do with the fact that the rights to the movie were recently sold.

[Dark Star]

Some really good comments on your first post and after veging on this for a while over the weekend to really think about the Profiles book. Keep in mind its mearly my opinion. While I like the idea of the charcters getting their own book that lists their personalities I have come to the conclusion that the idea of having several continuites would just create a whole new DC Crisis effect. In doing so that would add to more problems which would take years to fix. Yes it's cool to get personality profiles on virtually unknown characters, but it's also a key to remember what's come before.

To my knowlage there are alredy six(seven?) main divergance in TF history:

1) US Cartoon/Movie/BW/BM
2) US Comics (Marvel)
3) UK Comics (Marvel UK)
4) Japanese Cartoon/Movies/BW/BM
5) Japanese Comics
6[7?]) Toys (Japanese/European toys)

You can add alternite realities if you make RID and Armada into their own seperate storylines. And I wonder if this is what Takera, and Hasbro wants to do. Create a Gundam universe where nothing connects to nothing else. But that's what, to me, makes Gundam so hard to connect to because the characters keep changing so many times you don't give a care what the story plot is about, just so long as you have a battle between them.

[quote]Originally posted by Starscream:
<strong>Oh one thing I forgot to comment on.
What's up with the Movie being considered its own canon? Who came up with that? Why is this so? 3(?) canons isn't enough and we have to make it 4 to add the 5th (profiles) to? I'm really, really confused and curious as why the movie is considered its own canon. That just doesn't make any sense. Is this a glimpse of the creativity that is going behind the scenes for this profiles book?

The way I always viewed it you had:

1. series/ movie/ season 3
2. comics

I'm actually a bit confused as to why the toys are considered their own canon as well. But I can see it either way with them to be honest. The card stats could stand on its own or go with either canon (cartoon/comic).

But I would appreciate an answer as to why the movie was separated from its canon and made its own canon. That means season 3 is a separate canon from seasons 1&2… I don't understand this but I really hope its got nothing to do with the fact that the rights to the movie were recently sold.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think what could be behind the reasoning of the movie as it's own plot line is that Unicron, and other charcters, such as the sharkticons and the Junkions, and the Lithoians were all created during the movie. It also could be that with a new movie in the works the DE crew is counting the new movie as another version of the TF story. Although if you ask me it would be better to connect a movie to a dang series, or make it a trilogy of some sort instead of telling one big story over one whole movie, and really causing headachs.

I'm going to reserve critism until I actually see if the characters are butcherd. If they are then I will be severaly upset.

DS

[Bloodcat]

Ahh.. the fun of multiple continuities..

They make one's brain hurt.

Or you keep doing the same continuity, and get equally confusing messes ala the DC and Marvel universes, where even Bucky won't stay dead.

[David Willis]

"I think what could be behind the reasoning of the movie as it's own plot line is that Unicron, and other charcters, such as the sharkticons and the Junkions, and the Lithoians were all created during the movie."

....that's a really dumb reason for calling the movie a separate continuity. I mean, if the very act of *adding new characters* makes it a different, new story, then... dude. That's just crazy.

The first Star Wars movie didn't have Yoda! Where was he, huh? Why didn't they mention him? The Empire Strikes Back is so obviously a new continuity!

Remember that one Batman comic book with the new villain? What was his name? The Riddler? Man, that was where it all went to pot.

Hey, remember the second season of Transformers, when all these guys showed up out of nowhere with no explanation? Y'know, Tracks, Smokescreen, Skids, Hoist, Grapple, Powerglide, Seaspray, Dirge, Ramjet.... the list goes on and on! Obviously, Dinobot Island, part 1, and everything after is a totally different story.

My God.

[TJMD]

Eh, I can't wait for Profiles. It sounds nut kickin'. Yes, there are things I've heard about that I'm not feelin'. But hey, such is life.

[Karl V]

What's this about butchered characters when we haven't even seen the finished product yet?
We've been merely given what they are doing in facts of reference to their research on given characters.
So they are evidently going to research both the cartoon and comic adaption.
Starscream was a backstabbing arrogant character in both of them. So as long as those basic precepts are kept, does it really matter what other details are kept.
Nothing in either Cartoon or Marvel defined what made Starscream, rather we only saw how that type of personality reacted to situations presented in both canons...
So DW is creating a new situation for the same personality...at least I hope they maintain the same personality...
Edit: There was a cartoon ep where it showed Starscream as a neutral scientist....but we were never given the reason why he became so arrogant and treacherous afterward.

[terradive]

What was the point of changing Optimus' name?
Is Dreamwave going to print a whole roughly 10 years worth of transformer material?
What happens if things don't work out for them and we're stuck with yet one more alternate continuity?
I think the intention is the best and the execution will be excellent, but at the end of the road things just don't always work out the way we ant them too.

Good luck Dreamwave.
I wish you the best.

[Warewolf]

Was this published in December like it was supposed to be? I hope not, because I never saw it...

Matt, any updates on this? Could you maybe find out the status of the project?