PDA

View Full Version : Stuart Moore's A Thousand Flowers: The Influence of the Flagg!


MattBrady
08-26-2003, 07:17 AM
<center><a href="http://www.newsarama.com/Thousand_Flowers_index.htm"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/flowers/flowers_banner.jpg" width="475" height="75" border="0"></a></center>

<center>A THOUSAND FLOWERS</center><center>Comics, Pop Culture, and the World Outside</center><center>Installment 25</center><center>by Stuart Moore</center>


<b>American Flagg!: Worth the Work</b>


Last time (http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=5093), we talked about the <b>X-Men</b> phenomenon and how it grew through the ‘80s and ‘90s -- despite the fact that, at times, it was a frankly daunting experience for new readers. Another book that required careful reading and rereading, and that became a sensation within the comic book world, was Howard Chaykin’s <b>American Flagg!</b>

I’ve discussed here (http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2898) the rise of the early ‘80s “ground-level” independent publishers -- alternatives to DC and Marvel that nevertheless aimed at a similar readership, as opposed to the head-shop/hippie crowd serviced by the undergrounds. Of these publishers, the one that competed most directly with the majors was First Comics. Their comics were printed on newsprint (initially, anyway), priced lower than many of their competitors, and published on a strict monthly schedule. First’s initial lineup featured the stage-play adaptation/spinoff <b>Warp</b>, Mike Grell’s <b>Jon Sable Freelance</b>, and a revival of Joe Staton’s comedy-superhero <b>E-Man</b>.

<img width="200" height="308" border="0" hspace="2" src="http://www.newsarama.com/flowers/af21cov.jpg" align="right" alt="American Flagg! #21">But the jewel in their crown was <b>American Flagg!</b> (yes, with the exclamation point). Howard Chaykin had already made a name for himself with a wild variety of comics and science-fiction projects, some created solo and some in collaboration with prominent sf writers. <b>Flagg!</b>, he said at the time, was his first mature work. Set in the year 2031, it followed the adventures of reluctant hero/patriot Reuben Flagg, the former star of a hit vid-show called <I>Mark Thrust - Sexus Ranger</I>, as he chose to join the “real” Plexus Rangers that the show had been based on. Flagg had been replaced on his show by “tromplography” -- a process wherein the producers digitally inserted his image without actually having to pay him. Like many of the science-fiction details of the book, this one is drawing ever closer to reality as time goes on.

<b>Flagg!’s</b> mix of action, satire, and character drama ranged from its home base of Chicago’s “PlexMall” -- a futuristic shopping mall/apartment complex/government office -- to Brazil, Russia, Canada, and other exotic locales. The setting was complex and the players were vibrant, morally ambiguous working stiffs, lending the whole enterprise a strong air of realism. You believed in Chaykin’s world and his busy, constantly harassed characters.

<b>Flagg!</b> became controversial for its sexual content -- tame by today’s standards, but heavily focused on long-legged women in stockings, garters, and high heels. But the sex was part of the mix, and the women were genuine, often resonant characters. The dialogue was terse and realistic.

One of the finest scenes in the series, from issue #7, involves Flagg -- a media star, after all, with an eye for attractive women -- picking up the visiting Doctor Titania Weis at a PlexMall function. They retire to his apartment, and just as things are starting to heat up, Flagg -- whose Jewish heritage is a vital part in his character -- notices a swastika around her neck.

Weis shrugs off the swastika as the symbol of her political party and Flagg, fired by anger and self-loathing, proceeds to have (presumably) rough sex with her. Afterward, as he’s called to defuse a hostage situation, Flagg thinks: “I’ve got to do this the hard way…’cause I’m too shaky for a clean shot. For god’s sake -- a <b>swastika</b>. I don’t remember <b>ever</b> being <b>this</b> ashamed of myself…” Funny, sharp, dramatic, and painful, all in one scene.

<b>Flagg!’s</b> plots were sometimes a chore to follow. Probably the trickiest storyline was “Southern Comfort,” in issues #4-6. Having introduced Flagg, the PlexMall, and the pirate radio station Q-USA in the first three issues, Chaykin abruptly uprooted Flagg and sent him to Brazil on a confusing mission to (a) chaperone the Chicago mayor’s illegal basketball team, (b) trace the violence-inducing subliminals being planted in the hit TV show “Bob Violence,” and (c) explore a mysterious connection between the Plex authorities and a suspicious Brazilian company.

<img width="350" height="214" border="0" hspace="2" src="http://www.newsarama.com/flowers/af4panel.jpg" align="left">The resulting story moved at a dizzying pace, featuring no fewer than eighteen (!) major, speaking-role characters and, in addition to its own complex plot, several subplots that fed directly into the remainder of the book’s first year. In the days before regular trade paperback publication, FLAGG! was a tough book to follow; you had to reread issues pretty frequently to remember who Sam Luis Obispo was, for instance. In this regard, it resembled the early-80s cult TV sensation <I>Hill Street Blues</I>

Publishers jumped on the X-MEN bandwagon without considering that some phenomena are sui generis -- for instance, the fact that viewers perennially like <I>Star Trek</I> doesn’t mean they’ll just jump for anything set in space. <b>Flagg!</b> also encouraged a mini-boom of complex stories with “realistic” (often mid-sentence) dialogue -- but it didn’t originate with the publishers. <b>Flagg!</b> was very much a favorite among comics creators, and many of them aspired to build stories with the same level of texture and reality.

Unfortunately, aping the <b>style</b> of <b>Flagg!</b> didn’t automatically give you any of these advantages -- it just made your book hard to follow. There were any number of forgotten indy books that fell into this trap, but DC and Marvel had their share too. One of the most controversial, which I’ve mentioned before, was the early ‘90s <b>Legion of Superheroes</b>. This revamp combined a <b>Flagg!</b>-ish fragmented dialogue style with a lack of hero code-names -- and an enormous cast -- for an experience that rewarded the trivia knowledge of devoted fans, but left even longtime casual readers out in the cold.

In contrast, <b>Flagg!</b> itself succeeded because it was <b>worth the work</b>. The complex subplots involving Brazil, Chicago, and Mars built to a series of meaningful major storylines, which drove home the moral points of the series. The characters were interesting, layered, and mostly likable, even if they were hard to keep straight sometimes. And the whole series added up to a complex commentary on patriotism, greed, and the flawed nature of heroic human beings, all of which became clearer the more you read (and reread). The first year, in particular, still functions as a terrific novel when read in one gulp -- all the plot threads build to a harsh, violent climax.

Oddly, once Howard Chaykin left <b>American Flagg!</b>, both he and the book went in different directions. Chaykin’s short-lived <b>Time-Squared</b> was as heavily textured as <b>Flagg!</b>, but featured shorter, simpler stories. His subsequent DC works, <b>The Shadow</b> and <b>Blackhawk</b>, also featured fairly straightforward core narratives.

First Comics, meanwhile, continued <b>Flagg!</b> in other hands. Steven Grant and Joe Staton collaborated with Chaykin competently, but neither did their best work. The very talented J. M. DeMatteis and Mark Badger -- both of whom have produced excellent comics elsewhere, separately and together -- proved a complete mismatch for the cynical, macho Reuben Flagg. You had to give First credit for trying something completely different, rather than just aping Chaykin. But it just didn’t work on any level, and eventually they relaunched the book again under Chaykin’s studio for a curiously soulless twelve-issue series. And that was about it for First Comics.

Howard Chaykin has talked, periodically, about returning to his best-known creation. A combination of problems with rights and film-reproduction has made reprinting the original material difficult, though probably not impossible. Howard has worked primarily in TV for the past decade; now that he’s concentrating his efforts more heavily in comics again, hopefully we’ll see <b>Flagg!</b> trade paperbacks sooner rather than later.

<img width="200" height="307" border="0" hspace="2" src="http://www.newsarama.com/flowers/af26cov.jpg" align="right">First Comics launched at a time of great optimism in the direct market. It promised to be a creator-friendly publisher, but also pledged to provide on-time, monthly, continuing comics. Ultimately, <b>Flagg!</b> was a lesson in the contradictions of that approach: It was too much the product of its creator’s personality, and too successful a work under that creator, to thrive after his departure.

So <b>American Flagg!</b> the comic limped on, a shadow of its former self, while the indy comics revolution of the ‘80s ebbed. But the series’ influence lived on. It’s been much imitated, but none of its followers have equaled its scope, complexity, and depth of satirical commentary. It’s still a high-water mark, and like <b>The Spirit</b>, its influence can be seen, a generation or more removed -- despite the fact that it’s been out of print for more than a decade.

<b>X-Men</b> and <b>Flagg!</b> both offered barriers to the casual reader -- but both, in completely different ways, rewarded the reader who put in the time. For a creator, it’s a risky way to approach a series; nine times out of ten, you’re better off structuring a book so that new readers can jump right in. But sometimes, it’s the tenth series that proves the most rewarding and influential. Just remember: It’s got to be worth the work.

**

<b>Stuart Moore</b> has been a writer, a comics editor for Vertigo and Marvel Knights, a kitchen worker, a book editor, and the nighttime manager of the Lawrenceville, NJ Woolworth's curtain department. He has won the Will Eisner award for Best Editor 1996 and the Don Thompson Award for Favorite Editor 1999.

My current comics work: JUSTICE LEAGUE ADVENTURES #22, in comics shops now, features a nice stand-alone story spotlighting Green Lantern and Hawkgirl; details and a great cover image <b>here</b> (http://www.dccomics.com/comics/dc_display.html?cm_dc_itemCode=jladv22&month=August). Next up is LONE, a new future-western series from Dark Horse/Rocket Comics in September, drawn by Jerome Opena, this year’s Russ Manning Award-winner for best newcomer. It’s likewise previewed <b>here</b> (http://www.rocketcomics.net/profile.html?SKU=12196).

More details on these and other new projects, including GIANT ROBOT WARRIORS, VAMPIRELLA, and PARA, here (http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/news/105884489322456.htm) and here (http://www.popimage.com/content/viewnews.cgi?newsid1058854264,10752,) .

And check out Ryan Kelly’s great double-page International Robot spread from GIANT ROBOT WARRIORS here (http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4639). Don’t you just love the Canadian robot with the hockey stick?


See you in two weeks…

adamania
08-26-2003, 09:13 AM
In contrast, Flagg! itself succeeded because it was worth the work. The complex subplots involving Brazil, Chicago, and Mars built to a series of meaningful major storylines, which drove home the moral points of the series.

I'm sorry, but this series was no more than another blip on the radar screen. When I became disenchanted with mainstream comics at that time, I sought out this book on the advice of a friend. I had to special order it from my dealer, but felt very disappointed when I read my first few issues. Yawn..... I don't know what kind of "success" Stuart is talking about here, but I never spoke to anyone at that time who knew about this series, other than Chaykin lovers.

Starsky_Hutch76
08-26-2003, 09:24 AM
I couldn't disagree more. I thught American Flagg! was a pretty groundbreaking series. I don't know about trying to bring it back, though. I'm not sure it would resonate as strongly now as it did in the 80s.

fish1000
08-26-2003, 10:25 AM
Funny, I'd never noticed the similarity between 90's Legion & Chaykins work, but now you mention it, it's pretty clear.

The Legion was one of the comics that got me into collecting - I rather liked the complexity, the terse fragmented scripting style allowed for recaps of entire issues in one page, so I didn't feel that I was missing out just because I didn't know the history.

Chaykin seems to be popping up all over at the moment - I just downloaded the interviews at tcj.com, and have started re-reading The Shadow. I may have to look out for AF! in the back issue boxes...

MvH
08-26-2003, 11:08 AM
I think discussions of "accessibility" are a little flawed, usually (Stuart is doing a good job here)

The usual line goes "Manga are more popular because they are more accessible... don't have all these storylines and characters."

So why is Dragonball Z so huge? What about Pokemon?

The fact is that comics is one of the few media that can handle that kind of storytelling style and when it is done right people love to feel like they are getting inserted in the middle of something big.

One difference I suppose is that the X-Men saga (say) is now 40 years long... Dragonball Z is short enough that you could conceivably go back and by the many collected editions.

adampasz
08-26-2003, 11:19 AM
I loved American Flagg! even though I'm still not sure what the heck it was about. I often enjoyed just looking at the innovative and stylistic art. Piecing the plots together was tough, but rewarding. Legion was great too, and I'm sorry DC didn't give it a longer run before revamping the book's style.

In a way, these comics were the precursors of todays long story arc books like Daredevil and Ultimate X-men...

sythspawn
08-26-2003, 11:37 AM
I'd like to echo the sentiment in hoping that American Flagg! will be reprinted in TPB format again someday. :)

kevthemev
08-26-2003, 02:09 PM
American Flagg! was one of the best comic series published ever, that is, it was until Chaykin left the book (around issue 26).

There were some blips later on, the Chaykin-penned, Paul Smith- drawn 47-50 were very much in the same vein as the early issues. The second volume was written by Chaykin but never really had the same edge that the first two years of volume one had.

In particular, the first 12 issues are amazing and deserve to be in print forever. Now that Howard is back doing comics full-time, lets hope he gets them out in print again.

Maybe he should follow Starlin's lead with Dreadstar and get them out as limited hardcovers to gauge reader interest.

mpg
08-26-2003, 02:22 PM
i feel ill..

i have never read american flagg....

yet....it is has remarkable similarities to a concept i am developing...

should i read this?? just to see? or shoudl i not...and pretend i never saw this?

kalorama
08-26-2003, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by adamania
I'm sorry, but this series was no more than another blip on the radar screen. When I became disenchanted with mainstream comics at that time, I sought out this book on the advice of a friend. I had to special order it from my dealer, but felt very disappointed when I read my first few issues. Yawn..... I don't know what kind of "success" Stuart is talking about here, but I never spoke to anyone at that time who knew about this series, other than Chaykin lovers.


Couldn't disagree more. The 1st dozen issue of Flagg were some of the best comics ever. It was unlike anything else and has never really been successfully duplicated.

hjcho
08-26-2003, 02:33 PM
For those of us who came up in the Eighties, this book was one of a handful that set the standards. I would include in this short roster the previously discussed Claremont/ Byrne X-Men, Miller/ Janson on Daredevil, and Simonson on Thor. Flagg! was by far the most complex, nuanced, and politically informed book in this group.

Chaykin, Miller, Simonson, and later Byrne, showed that the writer/ artist (the complete "cartoonist" to some) could create some of the most compelling work in the field. It was the inspiration for the next generation, for better or worse. It was the work of these artists that spawned (sic) the Image generation.

Rob Jensen
08-26-2003, 04:43 PM
"In contrast [to the TMK Legion], Flagg! itself succeeded because it was worth the work."

Actually, if you read the entire arc of the TMK Legion from the first issue through the destruction of the Earth storyline (#39-ish or so) in a manner similar to that of a year's worth of Flagg -- ie: in as close to one sitting as you can -- it is *also* worth the work. Amazing depth, characterization, dialogue and use/deconstruction of the nine-panel-grid format. As long as you're not pathologically fixated on the pre-TMK Legion, which has a hardcore fanbase almost as irrational as Green Lantern's HEATers.

But again, like Flagg, the TMK Legion first appeared in the days before insta-TPBs. I think TMK Legion would get a very different, very favorable reaction, if it were released today.

-- Rob Jensen

heeBGB
08-26-2003, 05:11 PM
I'd LOVE to see AF! trades, almost as much as Miracleman trades: the original issues #1-12 are among the most re-read in my collection. A new collection of those essential first dozen issues would sell very well, I think -- I know I personally would buy several! Chaykin's one-and-only style (both in writing and visuals, plus Ken Bruzenak's distinctive lettering) remains the attraction to the series, even after all these years -- a style often imitated, but never, EVER duplicated.

For those who might be interested, First Comics published three "graphic album"-sized collections of the first nine issues, in both hardcover and softcover, collecting the first three, three-issue story arcs -- AF! was one of the first ongoing series to be structured in this way, and it's unfortunate that the fourth arc never got collected. Those books turn up at cons and on ebay from time to time.

heeBGB
08-26-2003, 05:21 PM
Newsarama did a feature on AF! a couple of years back, that's still on this board:

http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1106

Franklin Harris
08-26-2003, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by adamania
I'm sorry, but this series was no more than another blip on the radar screen.

Obviously you and your pals were not paying attention. Every comics reader I knew at the time knew of American Flagg!, if only for the sex and profanity.

dollman
08-26-2003, 05:59 PM
This was one of the series that made the early the 80s my "golden age" of comics. Sigh...I miss First Comics.

I'm not sure if the comparison to Legion and X-Men are appropriate. The only thing Flagg had in common with those two series was its large cast of characters. Flagg was probably closer in dialogue style to Giffen and Bierbums relaunched Legion in the late 80s, early 90s.

Whereas the 80s Legion and X-Men had your typical comic expository soap opera dialogue, whose purpose was to clue in new readers of what went on before, Chaykin didn't offer a similar aid. If you missed an issue, you were screwed. And even though I have Chaykin's entire run, it was only on 2nd reading that I truly appreciated the subltley and complexity of his stories. Contrary descriptions yes, but I think it suits the series.

gren99
08-26-2003, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by adamania
I'm sorry, but this series was no more than another blip on the radar screen.

when i moved back to the states in 1988 and found that comics over here were VASTLY different than what i was used to in europe, a clerk at one of the local shops told me to check out 'AF!'.

i picked up the first TPB and 15 years and 12,000 comics later...

i still think it's one of the finest books i've ever read.

i keep hearing that DC wants to do archive editions of the whole series -- my only comment: best $35 (or $50) i'll ever spend.

Easy Reader
08-26-2003, 07:45 PM
Those were the days!

The days when you had options, decent quality reading material, great creators doing dream projects that they couldn't or wouldn't publish with the big two... I tried almost every comic book that was coming out from the independents (First, Eclipse, Pacific, Comico, etc.).

I remember trying AMERICAN FLAGG! for an issue or two. I loved the gorgeous art of Mister Chaykin (a new style at the time), but the story was too confusing for me. I never did get what the book was about... And, with so many new things to try and a limited budget, I didnt keep the title on my list.

Quite a few series from FIRST were among my favorite books at the time: NEXUS (one of the best title on the racks in the 80's and early 90's), JON SABLE (the first 30-40 issues are great), BADGER (what a fun book!), the first dozen issues of WARP, DREADSTAR (again the first 40 issues or so)...

About the Legion of the 90's, I'm guessing that Mister Moore was refering to the Giffen plotted/Bierbaum scripted books. I loved those! I wasnt really a big legion fan at the time the new series started (I had read some of the Shooter, Grell and early Giffen eras LOSH but was never a steady follower), i tried it because Giffen always manage to put out fun books to read. I was hooked right away and stayed religiously on board until the Bierbaum were removed from LOSH and from LEGIONNAIRES (Giffen had left before them). I never went back to the Legion after that...:(

wolfpacker
08-26-2003, 09:36 PM
I loved AF!
It was *very* ahead of it's time. I've seen its influence everywhere from Miller's Dark Knight Returns to Ellis' Transmetropolitan.

It had a MAJOR buzz at the time. There was nothing like it.

shakey
08-26-2003, 09:50 PM
Chaykin's best series, by far. First Comics was great with NEXUS, SABLE & FLAGG! .

I agree with Stuart, Chaykin's stuff is so personal, that I had to drop the book when he left. The guys that took over had no feel for the satirical tone of the first 30 or so issues.

Glad to see he's returning to drawing his books. American Century couldv'e used his artwork with his plotting & dialouge.

I liked it, and Barnum, but missed his distinctive art style.

Nobody draws sexy ladies like Chaykin.

kossori
08-26-2003, 11:47 PM
I came into Flagg later, after reading his Dominic Fortune and Scorpion stories from earlier. I really like Chaykin's style and I'm glad he's returning to drawing. I just hope he doesn't pull a Frank Miller and do minimalistic artwork because he's being paid for his name.

OM
08-27-2003, 03:10 AM
...Lord, I miss the hell out of this series. Chaykin would do us all a service if he brought this one back out of retirement, especially if DC could publish it as a Vertigo title just to keep things as sexually explicit as the original run.

...And what a run it was, too! Even if you look past the fact that he gave the Soviet Union five years more than it had in reality, the basis for some of the supporting cast still surprises most people when they realize why they look so damn familiar. Luther Ironheart obviously being based on Captain Marvel, while Gretchen Holstrum...er...Peg Krieger being Juliet "Aunt Peg" Anderson, one of the biggest stars in 70's porn. In fact, the general concensus was that <u>all</u> of the female cast were based on porn stars - a form of entertainment Chaykin gladly admitted he seriously appreciated back when he was giving his explanatory interviews on <i>Flagg!</i>.

...If anything, he should at least finally do a one-shot to explain once and for all why Raul could talk :-P

Jeremy Williams
08-27-2003, 10:18 AM
Because of comics such as American Flag! Howard Chaykin became one of the most groundbreaking, innovative creators of the 80s. At that that time Chaykin was mentioned on the same stroke as the Frank Millers and the Alan Moores.

But the dude does have an obsession with sex. :D

heeBGB
08-27-2003, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by Jeremy Williams
But the dude does have an obsession with sex. :D

Who doesn't? :D

carazan
08-27-2003, 12:35 PM
Originally posted by OM
...Lord, I miss the hell out of this series. Chaykin would do us all a service if he brought this one back out of retirement, especially if DC could publish it as a Vertigo title just to keep things as sexually explicit as the original run.

I always thought this exemplified the burning question: mini or ongoing? The first 12 issues -- as a lot of people have noted -- make one complete story that is one of the best (and certainly most ambitious) works ever attempted in US comics. And starting with issue 13, it slips considerably. Then Chaykin leaves etc. etc.

So would it have been better to finish issue 12 and walk away? or would we all now be bitching, "Why did he leave? He had years worth of stories left in those characters?"

(And why isn't anyone discussing that freaked out back-up story in the 20's of AF! by Alan Moore? Who did you have to be in the 1980s to get Alan Moore writing back-up stories?)

heeBGB
08-27-2003, 12:47 PM
Originally posted by carazan
Who did you have to be in the 1980s to get Alan Moore writing back-up stories?

Apparently, Howard Chaykin... :D

And for the record, I think Chaykin should have walked away after the first 12 issues -- I've found that Chaykin's work in general is strongest in his first dozen or so issues -- but I understand that the climate for finite (maxi-)series was only beginning to manifest itself in that day: DC and Marvel at the time had only begun to experiment with longer-than-four-issue mini-series, never mind creator-owned, non-superhero ones. AF! would probably have been a limited-run series if it had come out today -- the series would also likely have been terminated with Chaykin's departure had it come out today.