JiC: CROSSGEN'S COMICS ON DVD

[MattBrady]

<img width="200" height="287" border="0" hspace="2" src="http://www.newsarama.com/CrossGen/MERDIANDVDv_2.jpg" align="right" alt="actual package art"><I>by Michael San Giacomo</I>

Everyone says that one of the main reasons that comics are not as popular as they once were is that younger readers spend their spare time in front of a computer screen.

So why not put comics on the computer screens?

CrossGen has bridged the gap, on September 16th when Intec will release the first collection of interactive DVD comics. Spokesman Bill Rosemann claims the “first” designation because the true “first” comics on computer from Malibu Comics around 1993 were “simply static digital pages burned onto a CD.”

They were also pretty expensive, about $15 for one issue of <b>Prime</b> and a few other titles. That was all that was ever made before Malibu was purchased by Marvel and unfathomably hacked into pieces, burned, buried and had the ground above it salted so nothing would ever grow there. Bitter? Who's bitter?

But this is about CrossGen, not the murder at Malibu.

CrossGen’s Digital Comic Books are the next generation, the CD to Malibu's 8-track cartridge. And they are pretty cool. The art looks great, there is no loss of quality in the transformation to the screen. The work is not presented as an entire page, but panel-by-panel in such as way that movement is implied. The thing plays like a DVD, that is, it moves across the page on its own.

Remember those terrible Marvel Comics cartoons of the 1960s that simple added dialogue to panels taken from the comic? These are nothing like that. Anything like this is only as good as the performers and those used are excellent. The voices perfectly match the look of the characters and never sound silly or cartoonish. Even the roars and growls wound okay.

These feel right. The movement, the music, the special effects and, of course, the story sucks you in.

It takes a little longer to watch a comic than just read it, but since the target audience is kids at their computers (or Xboxes or Playstation 2s or DVD players), I suppose it makes sense. The most appealing thing about it is the price, $10 for the first six issues each of <b>Meridian, Negation, Scion, Sojourn</b> and <b>Way of the Rat</b> (all 10 are slated to go on sale on the 16th of September). So for $60 you can get a half-year of the best of CrossGen.

If you like those, you can get the second six issues of the same series on the next set of Digital Comic Books.

Rosemann said the DVDs will be sold in mass-marketting toy stores like Toys R Us; big stores that also carry toys like WalMart, and DVD sellers such as Blockbuster. They will "eventually" be sold in comic shops, but Rosemann said they are first aiming for the non-comic book audience. Judging from past history, that will go over...well with comic shop owners.

“The DVD’s also have special features, like a presentation on how to make a comic, featuring interview with (writer) Chuck Dixon and (artist) David Lanphear and many others.

“Each panel is a frozen moment in time,” says Dixon as he explains his writing style. Anyone considering pitching a comic might want to take a look at this interview, it’s good advice from a writer who knows what he’s talking about.

There are other bells and whistles, like photos of the comic covers, character descriptions (and CrossGen has a lot of characters) and other special treats like coming attractions.

It’s as simple to use as a movie DVD. I’m sure most younger folks have no trouble figuring out these things, but those of us not born in computers in our playpens have a little more trouble. It’s no problem. If I can figure it out, anyone can.

I may be like the horse and buggy driver in the 1900s maintaining that those durn horseless carriages will never replace buggies, but I don’t think these DVDs will ever replace comics.

As fun as they are, they are not tactile. You can’t hold them in your hands and read them over breakfast or the bathroom. They are slick and sophisticated and certainly have a place in the comic world, but don’t throw your long boxes away yet.

Now, if DC and Marvel ever want to get serious about putting their back-issue catalogues on DVD (ala the wonderful <b>MAD</b> magazine collection) paper collectors may be in trouble.

[DrewDewce]

I'm really looking forward to this!

I'm not a CrossGen fan/collector at the moment, but will pick up a few of these to see if I've been missing anything good.

Anybody have any suggestions on which one of these six would be the best one to start with?

And will these also be carried by Amazon or Best Buy?

[djcoffman]

Interesting to see how this goes down. I've known other people that have tried this at big shows, and it failed miserably. People for the most part want comics in their hands. And if it's on the screen, it better be something like an Xbox game or kids arent gonna dig it.

The "attract new readers" thing is kinda bunk.. If you want a new generation of kids to pick up comics, then MAKE SOME DAMN COMICS FOR KIDS! I mean, directly at kids. Get them in kids hands. The problem is, it seems one decade, the comic industry did nothign as far as promoting comics to kids, and now those kids turned to Video Games and the like THat were smart enough to be marketing all the way to kids back then. Comics just sat there. And we're making the same mistake last decade, and now we're three years into this decade and the same thing. Well at least they have movies out, show on tv again. BUT THEY"RE NOT PIMPING THE COMICS!!!!--

The best damn promotions I ever saw were the GI JOE cartoon commercials that would show Destro about to do something dastardly, then the thing would freeze and be the cover to that months GI JOE magazine-- When I was a kid, it made me want to run down to the newstand to see what happened next!-- Now it's just "Buy our DVD!"

Come on CrossGen! Marvel! DC!-- Let's see some commercials for comics! You see commercials for toothpaste, novels, food, music, movies, tvshows.. but comics just hide themselves away!-- Marvel sure could afford to be doing this now. But other companies should get in on the game.

[Tom Daylight]

Didn't Marvel already put together some "interactive comics" on CD? I could swear that I've seen adverts for such things. Not that I've ever seen the products themselves, mind...

(and shouldn't CrossGen be paying the people it owes before launching these new initiatives, hmm?)

[jawaplumber]

Originally posted by djcoffman
Interesting to see how this goes down. I've known other people that have tried this at big shows, and it failed miserably. People for the most part want comics in their hands. And if it's on the screen, it better be something like an Xbox game or kids arent gonna dig it.

The "attract new readers" thing is kinda bunk.. If you want a new generation of kids to pick up comics, then MAKE SOME DAMN COMICS FOR KIDS! I mean, directly at kids. Get them in kids hands. The problem is, it seems one decade, the comic industry did nothign as far as promoting comics to kids, and now those kids turned to Video Games and the like THat were smart enough to be marketing all the way to kids back then. Comics just sat there. And we're making the same mistake last decade, and now we're three years into this decade and the same thing. Well at least they have movies out, show on tv again. BUT THEY"RE NOT PIMPING THE COMICS!!!!--

The best damn promotions I ever saw were the GI JOE cartoon commercials that would show Destro about to do something dastardly, then the thing would freeze and be the cover to that months GI JOE magazine-- When I was a kid, it made me want to run down to the newstand to see what happened next!-- Now it's just "Buy our DVD!"

Come on CrossGen! Marvel! DC!-- Let's see some commercials for comics! You see commercials for toothpaste, novels, food, music, movies, tvshows.. but comics just hide themselves away!-- Marvel sure could afford to be doing this now. But other companies should get in on the game.

Not to insult your intelligence, as you might already be aware of this, but Marvel had nothing to do with those GI Joe commercials. They were conceived of and paid for entirely by the toy company. This doesn't discredit the points you made, but it IS worth noting.

Also, I would say that Marvel and DC and CrossGen are doing a bit more than just saying "Buy our DVD" (especially since CrossGen is the only one with DVD's at this point). It's a matter of opinion as to whether or not they are doing a decent job of promoting comics, though (personally, I think Marvel is doing the best job of it, but there is still plenty of room for improvement).

As for these DVD's, I definitely plan on checking them out. I'm not much of a CrossGen fan, but I am curious to see what this latest project is all about. I only wish they'd have done a RUSE DVD first :(

[jawaplumber]

Originally posted by Fetsur
Didn't Marvel already put together some "interactive comics" on CD? I could swear that I've seen adverts for such things. Not that I've ever seen the products themselves, mind...

(and shouldn't CrossGen be paying the people it owes before launching these new initiatives, hmm?)

You're right, Marvel did some last year. They were of the early McFarlane issues of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN. The CD's were a cute novelty, but they weren't on the scale of what it sounds like CrossGen has in mind here.

[Calamari Kid!]

(and shouldn't CrossGen be paying the people it owes before launching these new initiatives, hmm?)

I've always failed to grasp the idea that cutely-worded slurs are somehow indistinguishable from intellectual commentary. To my knowledge, Crossgen owes no money to anyone, Fetsy. (Pfeh.)


Anybody have any suggestions on which one of these six would be the best one to start with?


I'm so glad you asked, Drew! The aforementioned Chuck Dixon's stuff has made a real believer out of me in Crossgen, but Tony Bedard's stuff is even better, if that's possible. Dixon's Way of the Rat and the upcoming El Cazador are historically oriented action-dramas about Old China and 16th century pirates, respectively, although Way of the Rat plays more like a Jackie Chan Movie. His titles more tied into the Crossgen "Universe" Crux and Sigil , are page-turners in their own right, and although Crux is hard to define, Sigil is every bit the action movie genre.

I think, however (with all due respect to Chuck Dixon) that Negation may be the best comic book being written anywhere today, and would stand the test of time well against any genre, any time. Negation nrings together disparate characters from a variety of Crossgen worlds to the heart of the enemy's empire, and throws in a hefty measure of "The Great Escape" to boot. As they try to work together (everything from demi-gods to humans, and some aliens that don't even speak English!) they flee for their lives, trying to organize a Resistance Movement to the Negation enemy.

Negation is sooooo good, I've almost worn out my first set of graphic novels re-reading them. This really ought to be published monthly; the strain is just too much.

I don't think you'll be sorry trying any of the titles I've recommended, or anything on the DVD's from Crossgen. Crossgen is the only company I read 95% of all their titles--this from an original Crossgen skeptic. :)

[Philip A Moore]

I don't know about Mc Farlan SpiderMan but I used to own the XMen cd it had the first appearence of the new generation of Xmen cd.

I dont think The cds the future but I will admit 10.00 sounds like a great price for six issues

How ever Cross Gen isn't producing Route 666 or The Ruse so I will not be buying any time soon. ;)

[sythspawn]

Originally posted by jawaplumber
Not to insult your intelligence, as you might already be aware of this, but Marvel had nothing to do with those GI Joe commercials. They were conceived of and paid for entirely by the toy company. This doesn't discredit the points you made, but it IS worth noting.

You know, I could've sworn I read an interview with Larry Hama somewhere that said Marvel DID pay for those commercials and it wasn't very cost-effective, hence there not being too many of them. I could be wrong though and I can't recall my sources.

[jawaplumber]

Originally posted by sythspawn
You know, I could've sworn I read an interview with Larry Hama somewhere that said Marvel DID pay for those commercials and it wasn't very cost-effective, hence there not being too many of them. I could be wrong though and I can't recall my sources.

ANY time I've seen someone in the know make a statement about it, they always say Marvel had nothing to do with the commericals. In fact, I've seen many a person on a message board be corrected for it when they say Marvel should do those style of commercials "again".

I'm not saying you are wrong, but maybe you are just remembering Hama talking about how the commercials weren't cost-effective. I seem to remember an interview similiar to that, too.

[Christian Otte]

Originally posted by jawaplumber
You're right, Marvel did some last year. They were of the early McFarlane issues of AMAZING SPIDER-MAN. The CD's were a cute novelty, but they weren't on the scale of what it sounds like CrossGen has in mind here. Didn't they also produce tried the same thing with Origin, and weren't they called Marvel-In-Motion, or something like that?

[Julio Diaz]

Edited due to my misreading the article. Never mind!

[ctsmith83]

Originally posted by Calamari Kid!
To my knowledge, Crossgen owes no money to anyone, Fetsy. (Pfeh.)

I'm sorry, but have you been living under a rock for the last few weeks? The news about Crossgen's financial difficulties (investors failing to pay CG and CG failing to pay freelancers, Rosemann insulting freelancers and then Alessi accusing whistle-blowing freelancers of blackmail) has been plastered across most of the comic new sites. I guess you just missed that... :rolleyes:

This DVD initiative sounds like an interesting idea, but it really needs to be game-like (Dragon's Lair anyone) in order to grab the non-comic buying public's attention.

ctsmith

[Julio Diaz]

Err... sorry. I've no idea how this happened.

[djcoffman]

Actually-- as far as my knowledge goes, Marvel did indeed pay a part of, if not all for those commercials. Those commercials were selling the comicbook, not the Hasbro toys-- although Marvel did own the license for the comic, when you buy a license like that, Hasbro wasnt sitting back saying, "Hey! We'll do a commercial for your comics so they'll sell better!"--

I recall speaking with someone who worked for Marvel about those commercials, and how they were expensive to run. All I know is, if unbrandamerica.com can afford to get their commercials on TV-- comics should be on tv too. Like I said, you see commercials for EVERYTHING BUT COMICS!! This is silly! Comics are obviously doing something wrong.

Maybe someone FROM Marvel could clear up the issue. Anyone? Anyone? Joe Q? Paging Joe Q.

[Mort]

An incredible idea, and long overdue.

My hope is to see huge volumes on DVD/CD ROM.

Marvel's dotcomics got me into the Marvel universe. I had never read anything, and all of a sudden I was able to catch up on everything. At one stage, they had the first 18 issues of Ultimate X-Men online, and like, 25 Ultimate spidey, as well as Ultimates 1-5.

These have since been removed, and now they only have UXM issues 1-3. Maybe the retailers complained, but i think it was a mistake. i went back and bought all the TPB's of UXM and USM, as well as getting totally hooked on the monthly comics.

I've been waiting to see DC adopt the approach, and for someone to release a CD. It is an excellent way of hooking non-comics fans in, and surely cheaper for the companies than TPB's.

Of course it won't replace comics, but I see the two co-existing. Voices are a little unneccessary, but good for retards who can't read I guess. Marvel's dotcomics have adopted the perfect approach, with the frame advancing when the user clicks.

Imagine seeing Jim Lee's Batman on the big screen, a bit of Elfman in the background and an otherwise dark room. Bring it on!

[COREMARK]

Sounds like a cool idea, I'm gonna pick up the Way of the Rat DVD when it comes out.

[Tom Daylight]

Originally posted by ctsmith83
I'm sorry, but have you been living under a rock for the last few weeks? The news about Crossgen's financial difficulties (investors failing to pay CG and CG failing to pay freelancers, Rosemann insulting freelancers and then Alessi accusing whistle-blowing freelancers of blackmail) has been plastered across most of the comic new sites. I guess you just missed that... :rolleyes:


Not Newsarama though, peculiarly. I guess there just isn't a place for the story here?

[AForceOfOne]

Well dude...not all of us stay online all the time and frequent every comic site. Real life gets in the way.

Rosemann said the DVDs will be sold in mass-marketting toy stores like Toys R Us; big stores that also carry toys like WalMart, and DVD sellers such as Blockbuster. They will "eventually" be sold in comic shops, but Rosemann said they are first aiming for the non-comic book audience. Judging from past history, that will go over...well with comic shop owners.

About frelling time. Does anybody else think it wasn't a problem to do free comic book day ONLY IN COMIC STORES? Sure they tell you it was a success but give me a break. It's kind of like Dreamwave and their new "Video Game Comic" line. Where is it being sold? Comic book stores. Why not video game stores as well? It would sell better there instead of just in comic shops.

But that would be too hired. Yet again CrossGen waits until something has a little better technology behinds it, does some research, and make everyone else wonder why didn't I think of that?! The average comic person is going to buy the CrossGen comic so why would they detract from those sales? It's just obvious not to do that and reach out to people outside then those already reading...or already just reading comics and are used to reading instead of viewing. It's a different audience and it's a different type of person so the same marketing model just isn't going to work.

[Nat Gertler]

A few quick notes:

1) This is not the first presentation of comics on DVD. It may be the first DVD primarily of comics (if you want to call something with recorded dialog "comics", which gets into questions of definition), but there have been comics on some of the comic-related movie DVDs (I believe the Spider-Man disks had some, for example.)

2) Malibu's CD-ROMIX were not the first comics on computer, nor even the first computer comics for sale in stores. Infocom had a brief line of interactive floppy disk comics, for example.

3) There has indeed been CD-ROM-based comics since CD-ROMIX. Marvel had a series... I never perused one, but I am told they interspliced some of the Marvel animation into scenes. I think the planned Maus and Cartoon History Of The Universe comics were released, although I know that Understanding Comics was not. And a number of the CD-ROM entertainment titles could reasonably be described as comics. (I was working on a scuttled line that was intended to be specifically that.)

4) To the best of my understanding, anyone selling comics with a Diamond direct market account is welcome to participate in Free Comic Book Day, even if they are primarily a video store or whatever. However, unless they move a lot of comics, there's not a lot of incentive for such a store to take on the expense of FCBD. Those comics are free to the customers, but they ain't free to the retailers.

5) Hasbro's goals in having the Joe ads was not to make a gift to Marvel. Rather, the advertising and the comics allowed them to push new Joe-related products in ways that the FCC frowned up doing directly on TV.

6) The decision not to solicit this material yet through the direct market is not apt to win friends in the retail community.

[Victoronehalf]

It's a really great idea. I was actually thinking about how cool something like this would be a few days ago. I hope Marvel and DC follow suit.

edit: Just read the comixtreme article on the subject. They are going to be doing it with Marvel.

[AForceOfOne]

No I don't believe they are free for retailers but if there's ever a bigger monopoly than Microsoft it's Diamond.

It's a give a take. If you don't want to give a little the word isn't going to get out there...the ultimate point of FCBD. If Diamond wants to do what their doing then I don't see a point to it really. The only ones getting free comics are the people already buying them. It's not supporting the creators buying or trying a free book. it would do better at McDonald's, Burger King, The local 711, Banks, etc. Oh but when that comes to fruitation some day I'm sure somebody else will take credit even though it's quite obvious. Money issues aside...if people really don't want to get the books out there they're not going to.

CrossGen seems to think otherwise and is doing something about it...again...wether it was done before or not.

[IanZL]

Saw these things at MegaCon and I have to disagree with Michael. The voice acting is absolutley attrocious. Now first of all, I hate voice actors reading comics because, well, then thats not reading, thats watching a comicbook and thats not what their for. That aside though, the actors are just plain bad. Archard's voice was laughably over the top and everyone else sounded like they were in a constant state of shock.

[AForceOfOne]

WAS IT LIKE STAN LEE SCRIPTING! (notice the ! and no a ?) ;)

[ctsmith83]

Originally posted by AForceOfOne
Well dude...not all of us stay online all the time and frequent every comic site. Real life gets in the way.

Oh look, another thinly veiled personal attack from an online poster. What a surprise... :rolleyes:

This is the only major comic news site that has not covered the Crossgen vs unpaid freelancers issue. One need only visit one of the other major sites (CBR, The Pulse, etc.) to see the long messageboard threads and interviews to be aware of the current situation. Do you only read Newsarama?

ctsmith

[OMAR]

Originally posted by ctsmith83
Oh look, another thinly veiled personal attack from an online poster. What a surprise... :rolleyes:

This is the only major comic news site that has not covered the Crossgen vs unpaid freelancers issue. One need only visit one of the other major sites (CBR, The Pulse, etc.) to see the long messageboard threads and interviews to be aware of the current situation. Do you only read Newsarama?

ctsmith

Perhaps more to the point, can someone from Newsarama explain why they have avoided any coverage of what is being called "The Fall of CrossGen" story? CrossGen is hurting innocent people, then their president accuses freelancers of committing the felony crime of blackmail, which is punishable by a long prison sentence - and not a word of it all week on Newsarama. Shouldn'tsomeone beable to read only Newsarama and not have to make a jackass of themselves by showing ignorance of a major comics news story?

Why is Newsarama offering no coverage of this story?

[lesterbangs]

DC has put out CD-Roms. I bought the first Sandman TPB a month or two ago which included a CD-Rom with "400 pages from DC Comics' best-selling books." Now, to be fair, I bought the book because I like Gaiman's work and had been salivating over it for awhile, but the added bonus of 400 pages of extra comics seemed nice. Well, it was a disapointment to say the least. The most memorable section of the Rom was a green Lantern game that could've been played on an atari. The disc was, sadly, a retread of DC's website, which I don't find horribly exciting anyway.

[arcee]

Two thumbs up to CG for taking a chance and trying to adapt today's trends in technology to comics.

There will be a whole lot of naysayers and doubters but win or lose I will praise CG's bravery!

Just as there is currently a generation that don't understand why their parents still keep dusty LPs in the attic...

.... if this catches on ... another will question the wisdom of long boxes with plastic sealed colorful art on paper.


Side note:

BTW the Way of the Rat TPB was awesome! Recommend it to fans of Kung Fu movies everywhere.

[KittyPop]

Originally posted by Fetsur

(and shouldn't CrossGen be paying the people it owes before launching these new initiatives, hmm?)

Wouldn't it be a good idea that they bring some money in so they can pay the people they owe money to?

[AForceOfOne]

Originally posted by ctsmith83
Oh look, another thinly veiled personal attack from an online poster. What a surprise... :rolleyes:

This is the only major comic news site that has not covered the Crossgen vs unpaid freelancers issue. One need only visit one of the other major sites (CBR, The Pulse, etc.) to see the long messageboard threads and interviews to be aware of the current situation. Do you only read Newsarama?

ctsmith

Hey man...I've read the news about them on CBR a few days ago. Not everyone visits Newsarama, then Pulse, then CBR, the Continuum, etc. etc.

Most if not all people I know that read comics don't even get their news online. Oh look...another wise crack remark from somebody who doesn't realize that.

[Tom Daylight]

Originally posted by KittyPop
Wouldn't it be a good idea that they bring some money in so they can pay the people they owe money to?

Well, they seem to have the money to fund THIS; I'm just saying they should think about paying off debts before plunging the money into something else.

[Seric]

What upsets me, is people repeating things on multible boards, even after someone explains it to them.

Crossgen already has payed for the these (the research), they farmed them out, so they are NOT spending money, the people making them are, they are getting a % of the profits with low risk (and not putting out money). So go ahead say that they should not put out the DVDs and pay the freelancers instead (being no connection here) and look like an idiot. If you cared about the freelancers you would shut up, or at least help promote these DVDs so the freelancers could get payed from the profits.

[RyanMcLelland]

Well, it was only a matter of time before someone did this, interesting that it's Crossgen going into this market before someone like Marvel.

The Malibu CD's were pretty cool and Crossgen spokesman Bill Rosemann is in fact wrong. The Cd's were not just “simply static digital pages burned onto a CD”, rather they had sound effects, a musical score, and character actors providing voices. So I would pretty much have to disagree with Rosemann but agree with San Giacomo about the price. Look on E-Bay for one of three titles published by Malibu and you'll be in for a treat even today.

I still really haven't dug Crossgen titles. I tried the collections (Forge and Edge) but didn't really 'feel' them. Guess I'll try a DVD or two, see how this genre will suit the comic medium. But I'd rather own a TPB then a comic DVD anyway. At least for right now.

[Rich Johnston]

From what I saw/heard at Chicago, the audio for these DVDs are terrible. Very wooden voiceovers reading from scripts, seemingly without any acting skills, and without any attempt at 'placing' the events with background effects. It really sounds terrible.

For future work, CrossGen should really consider using a radio drama or radio advertising outfit to produce the audio.

On this, if nothing else, I speak about what I know.

[Derek Ruiz]

Originally posted by Fetsur
Well, they seem to have the money to fund THIS; I'm just saying they should think about paying off debts before plunging the money into something else.

Um I'm guessing this was probably put into motion well before CGE had any money troubles (cause it takes awhile to put DVD's together).....So why should they stop pushing ahead on there initatives...

[AForceOfOne]

because thinking that would make sense. I can jsut hear people now if they stopped...ALL THOSE PEOPLE NOT GETTING PAID! :rolleyes:

[Mike Bullock]

Originally posted by Rich Johnston
From what I saw/heard at Chicago, the audio for these DVDs are terrible. Very wooden voiceovers reading from scripts, seemingly without any acting skills, and without any attempt at 'placing' the events with background effects. It really sounds terrible.

For future work, CrossGen should really consider using a radio drama or radio advertising outfit to produce the audio.

On this, if nothing else, I speak about what I know.

So that I can 'speak about what I know', I'll start by stating I'm a certified audio engineer and I earned my certificate at one of the most prestigious recording studios on the east coast.

Not to be nitpicky Rich, but "wooden voiceovers reading from scripts, seemingly without any acting skills" Doesn't equal poor audio quality. An audio track of this nature has a myriad of components of which only a small percentage is the voice overs.
I have the Negation DCB (http://www.brokenfrontier.com/lowdown/CGcomicsdvd.htm) that I've watched ( I have a120 watt 5.1 channel surround sound system) and the sound quality is fully digital and on par with any DVD in my collection, (which includes all the Marvel movies, the Star Wars discs and many other movies with full blown surround sound audio tracks.) I agree that the voices are stilted and do detract from the drama of the story, but they far outshine anything of this nature to come before them. If you compare them to the latest, greatest Hollywood Feature Film, you may be disappointed, but if you take them for what they are, which is great entertainment for under $10 that you can enjoy again and again, then you won't be disappointed. Of course we can all hope for better voice tracks in the future, but top tier voice actors are almost as expensive as Movie Stars to hire, so it would be a little unwarranted to dump that sort of cash on a new, unproved media form.

---

And for those who are comparing this to something that came before, it's like comparing a 1/2 sized ashcan comic printed at Kinkos in B&W to the best quality full color comic book on the shelves today. There just is no room for comparison. :)

[jawaplumber]

Originally posted by Christian Otte
Didn't they also produce tried the same thing with Origin, and weren't they called Marvel-In-Motion, or something like that?

Yes, that's right. I never found the Origin disc, though, but I wish I did. They came with some nice wallpapers and screensavers on the disc, too.

[jawaplumber]

Originally posted by djcoffman
Actually-- as far as my knowledge goes, Marvel did indeed pay a part of, if not all for those commercials. Those commercials were selling the comicbook, not the Hasbro toys-- although Marvel did own the license for the comic, when you buy a license like that, Hasbro wasnt sitting back saying, "Hey! We'll do a commercial for your comics so they'll sell better!"--

I recall speaking with someone who worked for Marvel about those commercials, and how they were expensive to run. All I know is, if unbrandamerica.com can afford to get their commercials on TV-- comics should be on tv too. Like I said, you see commercials for EVERYTHING BUT COMICS!! This is silly! Comics are obviously doing something wrong.

Maybe someone FROM Marvel could clear up the issue. Anyone? Anyone? Joe Q? Paging Joe Q.

Now that you mention Joe Q, I believe he was the one who I read an interview with where he said Marvel didn't pay for those GI Joe commercials. It was probably right here on Newsarama. Does this ring a bell to anyone else?

[Hellboy]

I don't like this idea. I like to hold my comics or trades. I could not get into this. With a few exceptions,like if they put an entire run of a classic book like Amazing spiderman onto one disc. I once got a G.I. Joe video as a child and was really excited because I loved the cartoon. Turns out it was narrated with still pictures instead of animated. I hated that video.

[Frans Blix]

Regardless of who funded the G.I. Joe commercials, there's still the issue of whether they were successful or not. There's not enough pats on the back we can give the companies to make up for a million-dollar advertising campaign that most likely can't bring in enough new readers to pay for itself. I'd rather the companies continue with their current efforts.

Originally posted by AForceOfOne
Does anybody else think it wasn't a problem to do free comic book day ONLY IN COMIC STORES?

It wasn't done only in comic stores. Many stores placed the books in local libraries and had "X2" tie-ins with movie theatres.

[Roman a clef]

Anybody have any suggestions on which one of these six would be the best one to start with?

Sojourn. I've sampled many of the Crossgen titles, but this is the only one to make it onto my "must-read" list so far. Still, Meridian is pretty good, though. And Negation started strong, but I've completely lost interest in it.

[shakey]

While I see where Rich Johnson is comming from on the acting and sound quality of the DVD's, I think these products have more in common with talking books than movies.

The sound and acting are obviously far superior to what the average child experiences from , say, a book with a Audio cd , which is how I will approach buying one. My friend's daughter is 5,
and I think getting her the Traveler's Meridian with the DVD will help her learn to read .

The audio production values could have been better, but for a $9.95 product it works for me. The visuals looked cool at the demonstartion in Chicago.

[jawaplumber]

Originally posted by shakey
The sound and acting are obviously far superior to what the average child experiences from , say, a book with a Audio cd , which is how I will approach buying one. My friend's daughter is 5,
and I think getting her the Traveler's Meridian with the DVD will help her learn to read.

I just want you to know, reading this really made me smile :) Bravo!

[Mike Bullock]

Originally posted by shakey
While I see where Rich Johnson is comming from on the acting and sound quality of the DVD's, I think these products have more in common with talking books than movies.

The sound and acting are obviously far superior to what the average child experiences from , say, a book with a Audio cd , which is how I will approach buying one. My friend's daughter is 5,
and I think getting her the Traveler's Meridian with the DVD will help her learn to read .

The audio production values could have been better, but for a $9.95 product it works for me. The visuals looked cool at the demonstartion in Chicago.

That's a great perspective. :D

I saw the DCBs at San Diego Comic Con and I can promise you, the sound quality is 1000 times better at home on a decent home entertainment center.

[Hellboy]

And not for nothin but comics are meant to be read to yourself. Even the best comics sound horrible when read aloud.

[shakey]

Hey, that's what helped me learn to read. This has always been my defense in getting young kids to read comic books after getting looks from adults who stopped reading them.

I think Alessi is genuine when he talks about his reading programs that he's trying to implement. At the demonstartion in CHGO, he made the point that kids may want to pick up subsequent GNs to see how the rest of the story goes.

As for Meridian, Sephie is like an amplifyed HEIDI .Which is perfect for a kindergardener . What's wrong with trying to get even younger kids to start reading , when we know so much more about the importance of early child development.

[Ray Dillon]

Dangit! I've been stuck in the cave for a couple of weeks now and haven't gotten out to buy these. I can't frickin' wait. Saw them in Chicago and loved the concept and follow through.

There may be bugs, but this is the first generation of DCB's. They'll get better and better. YAY! :eek:

[beamable]

For purposes of full disclosure, I run a competing digital comics publishing solution so take my comments with a grain of salt.

But from what I saw at the SDCC, I got the distinct impression that I was watching the lowest budget animation in the world when they played the DVD. Maybe its just me, but when someone slips a DVD into a player, I expect something on par with a movie, not still frame images with a low budget sound track. The demo touted that this was an excellent way to convince kids to read, but hasn't Harry Potter already shown that all that is needed is a good story and not technology?

Will kids nourished on multi-million dollar budget video games be interested? If I had to wager on it I'd say that kids, these days, are much more likely to rent their favorite video game or Disney/Pixar flick than purchase a still frame comic DVD for 10 bucks.

No, the answer, in my most humble opinion, is what my solution is driving after: digital comics in their true comic form just cool images with great story lines, no annoying voice overs. Also ubiqitous convenient access: desktop PCs, handheld PDAs, and mobile phones. And finally, cheaper prices, hell, if there's no cost from printing, why not pass the savings onto the customer?


Aaron Urbina
http://www.beamable.com
Digital Comics Anytime - Anywhere!

[Gail Simone]

I'm looking forward to these. They sound fun, and ten bucks seems dirt cheap. You can turn the audio down if it's distracting, can't you?

Gail

[Janin]

About the whole advertising comics in commercials thing ... it simply wouldn't work in terms of cost. Advertising on television is insanely expensive, and not just during prime time television. Advertising during blocks that are highly watched by children is also expensive.

Let's see ... spending millions to advertise for a comic that sells 100,000 copies ... you're actually going to lose money even if you double or triple sales. Let's say the book sells for $2.95 a pop ... that means it's only going to pull in $295,000, and that's not factoring in labor and printing costs.

I'd say advertising in magazines would be a better approach to reaching a mass audience, and the costs of advertising in some of those is even pretty steep and not cost effective.

[Janin]

Originally posted by Gail Simone
I'm looking forward to these. They sound fun, and ten bucks seems dirt cheap. You can turn the audio down if it's distracting, can't you?

Gail No, you must turn it up full blast! At least, that's what Deadpool ... erm Agent X ... or is it Dead X now? ... would do to piss off his neighbors in the middle of the night. :p

[AForceOfOne]

Originally posted by Frans Blix
It wasn't done only in comic stores. Many stores placed the books in local libraries and had "X2" tie-ins with movie theatres.

That's great to know but it's only a start. It needs to go far beyond that. Especially since we never saw it for the Hulk either. The thing is...Marvel can do this on their own, or DC if they produce a movie, with the local theatres. If they can't because of Diamond and any legal matters then they are definately a true monopoly. I understand it's a money issue but it seems to me that it goes far beyond that in terms of not happening. People just don't want to do the footwork. Easier said than done but if it's so important then why doesn't it happen?

[zeraze]

Originally posted by Fetsur


(and shouldn't CrossGen be paying the people it owes before launching these new initiatives, hmm?)

Ah yes, the freelancers debate. If TV has taught me anything, these money/creative differances battles are rarely black and white. Example A: the brouhaha that developed when Michael Shanks left "Stargate: SG-1" citing that the producers and the show's back, MGM, wasn't giving his character (Daniel Jackson) enough to do or some such. So, he leaves the show but by Season 6, Dr. Jackson starts making guest appearances. Sure enough, by the current season, Shanks is back on SG1 full-time, indicating the creative differences weren't THAT big a deal .


Also, these battles don't always end well for the "wounded" employee playing David against the corporate Goliath. Exhibit B: Joss Whedon and Fox TV get ticked off when the WB Network refuses to pick up Season 6 of BUffy, citing rising acting/FX costs. So, Whedon and Fox set-up a deal with WB's rival, UPN, and expect they will keep Buffy on the air and get back at Wb in the ratings.

Unfortunately, Season 6 of Buffy proved on of the WORST seasons of the series, sending casual and even serious fans like myself running for cover. Naturally, ratings took a nosedive and got worse when WB moved the hit family drama, Gilmore Girls, into Buffy's timeslot.

By contrast, WB launched Smallville, which proved a more popular teen fantasy than Buffy ever was. To add insult to injury, Smallville was actually more fun than Buffy was at the time. Suddenly, casual observers had to wonder if the WB was right to give Buffy the heave ho.

The lesson: a creator declaring war against a corporation will quickly lose support if his creativity slacks off.

Hence, I'm skeptical of just blasting CrossGen because it a company. CG has announced that they WILL pay their freelancers. Hence, I'm wondering if CG's accusers at just comic versions of Joss Whedon.

zeraze

[zeraze]

Originally posted by Fetsur

(and shouldn't CrossGen be paying the people it owes before launching these new initiatives, hmm?)

Actually, Intec Interactive is supplying the money to develop and distributes these DVD comics. All CrossGen is doing in supplying the original artwork. Read the full details here:

http://www.collect.com/interest/article.asp?Pub=BG&id=8243

The irony of all this is that if these DVD do well, the CrossGen/freelancers debate will be a distant memory. It's similar to how a bankrupt Marvel seemed on the verge of extinction or worse getting bought out by DC. Then, cult comic turned film, Blade, became a sleeper and ended the joke of "successful Marvel film" being the ultimate oxymoron. Then, X-Men proved Blade was no fluke, thus causing anyone and everyone trying to hammer out movie and merchandising deals with Marvel.

Thus, in 3 years, Marvel has not only wiped out all its debts, but is making far more money off movie tickets, DVDs, video games and toys than actual comics as shown here:

http://www.icv2.com/articles/news/3322.html

The same thing could happen with CrossGen. Let's remember history is full of cult comics did well or extremely in other media like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, Men in Black, Static Shock, and the aforementioned Blade.

zeraze

[zeraze]

Originally posted by AForceOfOne


Rosemann said the DVDs will be sold in mass-marketting toy stores like Toys R Us; big stores that also carry toys like WalMart, and DVD sellers such as Blockbuster. They will "eventually" be sold in comic shops, but Rosemann said they are first aiming for the non-comic book audience. Judging from past history, that will go over...well with comic shop owners.

About frelling time. Does anybody else think it wasn't a problem to do free comic book day ONLY IN COMIC STORES? Sure they tell you it was a success but give me a break. It's kind of like Dreamwave and their new "Video Game Comic" line. Where is it being sold? Comic book stores. Why not video game stores as well? It would sell better there instead of just in comic shops.


Agreed. I'm equally perplexed why comics have all but vanished from newsstand outlets (convenience stores, drug stores, supermarkets, etc.). The ONLY comic you're sure to find everywhere is the manga anthology Shonen Jump (Viz).

When I was a kid, I could walk down to the local 7-11 to pick up the latest issues of X-Men, Gi Joe and Transformers. And the selection was pretty good. After discovering a local comic shop, I began shopping there exclusively. Still, the newsstand market was healthy enough overall to make comics available to kids in area where there were no comic shops.

Now, you're shocked if the local supermarket has a few comics in the magazine section. This scenario has led to two major problems for the comic industry:

1) A Generation of Comic Illeterate Kids

No, video games were not the prime reason for the current comic slump. As a kid, my friends and I thought comics were as cool as video games. The real culprit nowadays is that kids never get exposed from comics because they are do difficult to find. Hence, they conclude the only people who should read comics are geeks who looks like Comic Book Guy (The Simpsons). No wonder comic sales took such a steep dive in the '90s.

2) Rising Costs

With a sudden loss of customers, publishers large and small started increasing prices just to stay afloat. Which led to more people leaving or avoiding comics. Who's going to pay almost $2 to $3 buck on an issue of Ultimate Spider-Man which he/she can breeze through in about 15 minutes. For about $4 more, this consumer can rent the Spider-Man DVD from Blockbuster and get hours of webslinging action, cast interviews, and behind the scenes extras.

This has led to our current situation. Sure, part of me would like to stick with monthly comics. But with rising cover prices, it's becoming more economical to buy trades (on which you get better discounts) or even DVDs (which are really cheap).

So, unless a major miracle caused newsstands and mainstream retailers start demanding lots and lots of the format, monthly periodicals will prove to be the least effective way to draw new readers to comics.

zeraze

[Mort]

The amount of negativity on these boards from some posters is astounding. I am obviously new to to the comics world, but for every new announcement there are a bunch of wankers bringing up shit like "Why are they doing this when they're in debt?" I just don't get it.

Who cares why they're doing it? Who cares that its not the same as "holding a comic in your hands"? Eurgh. The shit that some of you losers ramble on about is just so... loserly.

It's a NEW THING. It might take off and be cool, or it might die and suck. But major props to crossgen for trying.

I'm not complaining about this, I don't care. And I realise that there are some jaded, cynical people who have been burned by these companies with their hype. But please, for your own sake, spare the world from your shit! These message boards would be shorter and more informative, and you could use the extra time to... like... meet a girl or something. It's win-win.

I realize that the years of getting picked on and bashed have taken their toll, and that this shit might be theraputic, but I'll wager it's not helping your social situations one bit. CHANGE YOUR LIFE!

[jawaplumber]

Believe it or not, I've found a couple of spinner racks in grocery stores lately. The Stop & Shop chain actually has them in their Super stores. I couldn't believe my eyes when I came across them.

As for monthly vs. trades, I was looking at the Traveller editions of CrossGens trades yesterday, and I'm beginning to think CrossGen would perhaps be better served if they just switched right to graphic novels. Those Traveller editions are just so much fun and much cheaper than buying the single issues and the trade paperbacks. Just looking through them made me interested in the CrossGen material more so than I ever have been.

[Mort]

and enough with "emoticons". Worst thing since boy bands.

[Tom Daylight]

:rolleyes:

Originally posted by zeraze
Ah yes, the freelancers debate. If TV has taught me anything, these money/creative differances battles are rarely black and white. Example A: the brouhaha that developed when Michael Shanks left "Stargate: SG-1" citing that the producers and the show's back, MGM, wasn't giving his character (Daniel Jackson) enough to do or some such. So, he leaves the show but by Season 6, Dr. Jackson starts making guest appearances. Sure enough, by the current season, Shanks is back on SG1 full-time, indicating the creative differences weren't THAT big a deal .


Or perhaps that they had been resolved. Not that I have seen the episodes in question, but if the actor was appearing in "guest appearances" then they would surely be giving him something to do. And face it, quitting and rejoining the show certainly gives him (and the show) a higher profile than just staying where he is doing nothing.


Also, these battles don't always end well for the "wounded" employee playing David against the corporate Goliath. Exhibit B: Joss Whedon and Fox TV get ticked off when the WB Network refuses to pick up Season 6 of BUffy, citing rising acting/FX costs. So, Whedon and Fox set-up a deal with WB's rival, UPN, and expect they will keep Buffy on the air and get back at Wb in the ratings.

Unfortunately, Season 6 of Buffy proved on of the WORST seasons of the series, sending casual and even serious fans like myself running for cover. Naturally, ratings took a nosedive and got worse when WB moved the hit family drama, Gilmore Girls, into Buffy's timeslot.

By contrast, WB launched Smallville, which proved a more popular teen fantasy than Buffy ever was. To add insult to injury, Smallville was actually more fun than Buffy was at the time. Suddenly, casual observers had to wonder if the WB was right to give Buffy the heave ho.

I don't think there was an intention to trounce WB in the ratings. I think there was an intention to put UPN on the map (as Buffy apparently did for WB), and to some degree I expect it worked.

And "bad" Buffy is definitely stronger than "good" Smallville. ;)

The lesson: a creator declaring war against a corporation will quickly lose support if his creativity slacks off.

Eh? How does logic take you from those statements to this one? In fact what does this have to do with anything?

Hence, I'm skeptical of just blasting CrossGen because it a company. CG has announced that they WILL pay their freelancers. Hence, I'm wondering if CG's accusers at just comic versions of Joss Whedon.

I suggested that considering it apparently has the money to fund this initiative, they should maybe diverge their funds towards paying their freelancer debts in full. I did not just "blast CrossGen because it [is] a company". In fact had Newsarama actually reported anything on this I might not have said anything at all.

I don't get the Joss Whedon "analogy". Gifted, talented writer; once frustrated at the WB network for letting him and his colleagues down, wrote a fantastic musical for his show on another network, struggled a little under the weight of running three shows together at once, cares a huge amount about the work he is involved in. I honestly don't see how this relates to the matter at hand at all. (Nor do I think you realise that the man has written a fair number of excellent comic books himself...)

[punkmonkey]

I believe that CG has been using drama students to provide the voiceovers for their comics on the web comics, and they may just be using the same voices for these DVDs. I was not at all impressed with the majority of the voice acting with the COW, and I would have thought drama students could do better. Sure, they were doing it for free (maybe a special project grade or something), but they're drama students!

[KittyPop]

Originally posted by punkmonkey
I believe that CG has been using drama students to provide the voiceovers for their comics on the web comics, and they may just be using the same voices for these DVDs. I was not at all impressed with the majority of the voice acting with the COW, and I would have thought drama students could do better. Sure, they were doing it for free (maybe a special project grade or something), but they're drama students!

I know... he girl that did the voice for Sephie came into the CG chat after COW implemented the audio feature.

Everyone then was complaining about the bad acting and her response was "We're doing this for free. What do you expect?" :rolleyes:

I was like.. think of it as an audition. You don't get paid at an audition but it can lead to paid work. If you performed like that at an audition do you think it would go over well if you said pay me and I'll do better?

All I got was a :confused: from her.

[zeraze]

Originally posted by Seric
What upsets me, is people repeating things on multible boards, even after someone explains it to them.



I can't say I'm shocked. Some people are stuck in their way of thinking and no amount of civilized discussion or logical arguments will sway them. It's no different than how al-Qaeda believes all Americans want to conquer all the Muslim world and no amount of anti- Iraqi war American protests will change their view. Hence, they have no qualms blowing as many of us as possible.

Hence, as with al-Qaeda, we should end all discussion with CG bashers and resort to new tactics. Instead of carpet bombings, gun battles, and hand-to-hand combat; ignoring them is the most effective course.

So, don't response to them. If they can't stay on the topic (comics on DVD), their opinion is meaningless.

zeraze

[gwangung]

Agreed. I'm equally perplexed why comics have all but vanished from newsstand outlets (convenience stores, drug stores, supermarkets, etc.).

I think this has been hashed out quite a bit. Steven Grant had a nice column on this over at Comic Book Resources.

The short answer is that comics disappeared from newstands because they were kicked out. They're too low in price for them to be worth the labor.

[Sith Happens]

Originally posted by Fetsur
Well, they seem to have the money to fund THIS; I'm just saying they should think about paying off debts before plunging the money into something else.



1. Crossgen's money problems are new. The DCBs, as Mark Alessi calls them, have been in the works for a long time.

2. Most, if not all, of the money CrossGen is spending on this has already been spent.

[Sith Happens]

Originally posted by Gail Simone
I'm looking forward to these. They sound fun, and ten bucks seems dirt cheap. You can turn the audio down if it's distracting, can't you?

Gail



It's called the "mute" button, Gail.

[cs3ink]

Comic book fans as a cummunity (of which I am a member) drive me crazy.

How many of thise of us bitching about CG not paying creators have actually read all related material? While I agree that creators should be paid for work done, I also undestand that in the real world of business that does not always occur. Alessi himself has contacted a large percentage of those creators affected by CG's financial problems, and talked with them personally. Only someone who genuinely cares would take that kind of time out of their insanely scheduled day, and face what could easily be a great deal of anger and frustration from people that are normally handled by "underlings". Marvel nor DC would do that.

Again, I'm not saying I support the late payments, but from a business standpoint it makes perfect sense.

And in regards to Alessi's "blackmail" comment... Technically what the artists did could be construed as blackmail. Look up the definition. "Payment that is extorted" is the definition that I am refering to, with the definition of extortion reading "to obtain from a person by force, intimidation, or undue or illegal force". By the artist's own words, this is what they were attempting. Alessi's right on the mark. Airing dirty laundry only tends to make the one airing it look childish and unprofessional.

As far as the DVD's... Whatever. It's not really my bag, but I bet it'll be a quality product. I'd love to see it succeed. The comic market base need to be substancially broadened, and I'm for whatever might accomplish that.

And lastly, I think it is irresponsible for Newsarama not to have covered the CG/artists wars. It makes me question their objectivity, and depth of commitment for truly being a source of relevent, impartial news.

Later all,
Chip

[Frans Blix]

Chip, question no more. ;)

http://www.newsarama.com/pages/CrossGen/CrossGen_Problems.htm

[cs3ink]

Thanks, Frans.

Kinda sobering, and undermines several of my points.

The community still drives me crazy, though. Pity I love it so.

Chip

[Allen]

I look forward to these DVD comics. I asked my librarian to see if she would carry them at library. I give Crossgen plus for attempting this venture. :cool: