Superman recent continuity questions

[Hawkmoon269]

Hey, I hope some of you out there can help. These questions regard stories from the 2000 Superman titles reboot (seems like they're rebooted every year now, though). If you could answer with specific issue numbers as well, that would be outstanding.

1. In the President Lex special, Lex had a kryptonite ring that Batman wanted. Is this the same ring the original Lex Luthor had that gave him radiation poisoning, or some other ring? Is this the same ring that Batman now has in his possession, and if so, how did he eventually get it from Lex?

2. What was the secret "deal" that Lois made with Lex?

3. How could Lex fool the Martian Manhunter when he probed his mind regarding the truth to some story Clark had written? What was the resolution of this story, and did it have anything to do with Lex knowing Superman's identity at one point, and then forgetting it somehow sometime later?

4. What were the contents of the story Clark wrote that got him fired? What does/did the average DCU citizen believe happened with the "evil clone" of Luthor?

I will be very grateful if someone can answer these for me. I think they will also serve to enlighten those who may have just jumped into the DCU and are curious about Lex's recent history. He was the prez at one point, then he was a raging lunatic (see Superman/Batman #6), and now?

Thanks again.

[Hawkmoon269]

Originally posted by Hawkmoon269
how did he eventually get it from Lex?



I just read Superman 168 last night for the first time, and I didn't realize until I finished it that the story continued into Detective 756. So, this might be part of the answer to my first question, if any of you are chomping at the bit.

Oh, and also, I just posted this to make the thread appear higher and not get lost. Guilty as charged.

[OMAC]

Originally posted by Hawkmoon269
1. In the President Lex special, Lex had a kryptonite ring that Batman wanted. Is this the same ring the original Lex Luthor had that gave him radiation poisoning, or some other ring? Is this the same ring that Batman now has in his possession, and if so, how did he eventually get it from Lex? I don't know about this one.
Originally posted by Hawkmoon269
2. What was the secret "deal" that Lois made with Lex? Lex Luthor sold the Daily Planet back to Perry White in a secret deal with Lois, on the condition that Lois would "pull" one story at Lex's request.
Originally posted by Hawkmoon269
3. How could Lex fool the Martian Manhunter when he probed his mind regarding the truth to some story Clark had written? What was the resolution of this story, and did it have anything to do with Lex knowing Superman's identity at one point, and then forgetting it somehow sometime later? When Lex was President he learnt the identity of Superman, but I don't know how he lost that memory. While Lex was Pres, he told Pete Ross (Lex's Vice Pres) Superman's identity also.
Originally posted by Hawkmoon269
4. What were the contents of the story Clark wrote that got him fired? What does/did the average DCU citizen believe happened with the "evil clone" of Luthor? Clark wasn't fired, he just "resigned" so that he could get all the evidence to bring Lex down. In the end, Lex brought himself down. The "evil clone" was Lex's son who was killed as far as the public was concerned.

[Hawkmoon269]

Originally posted by OMAC
Lex Luthor sold the Daily Planet back to Perry White in a secret deal with Lois, on the condition that Lois would "pull" one story at Lex's request.

Thanks...this has helped a little bit, and I think I remember reading about the deal somewhere (was it a Superman Secret Files?)...my question about this is: did Lex ever take Lois up on the other end of the deal and have her pull a story, or was this plot point forgotten about and then made irrelevant by Lex going mad in Superman/Batman #6?

[Ret]

Ok. During our worlds at war Topeka Kansas was destroyed. Lex knew this was going to happen and did nothing to stop it.

Lois found this out somehow. Lex wanted her to not publish the story via their deal.

So instead Clark published it and fired/resigned whatever.

As far as Lex knowing Clark's identity he forgot when Manchester Black killed himself. I think Manchester was also responsible for J'onn not being to able to read Lex's mind.

[SonOfZod]

I think there is some confusion with the writers regarding if Lex knows of Superman's secret identity or not. Manchester Black erased Lex's mind, but ever since then there have been many references to Lex still know, though some of them are from Superman and Batman who still think Lex knows.

[Ret]

Well to add to the confusion at the end of the first Superman/Batman arc when Lex was on all sorts of drugs and venom and in the swamp talking about "the crisis" the captions said something like his mind was clearer and he could remember things he'd forgot.

[ManofTheAtom]

Superman comics that make sense?

Aren't those as rare as the doddo?

[mike616]

Originally posted by ManofTheAtom
Superman comics that make sense?

Aren't those as rare as the doddo? lol! hey,MOTA!:)

[ManofTheAtom]

Originally posted by mike616
lol! hey,MOTA!:)

Hey, what's up?

[mike616]

Originally posted by ManofTheAtom
Hey, what's up? not much,here just hangin around the DC section.:)

[ManofTheAtom]

Originally posted by mike616
not much,here just hangin around the DC section.:)

It's a good section so far, lol.

[mike616]

Originally posted by ManofTheAtom
It's a good section so far, lol. Yeah, I like it.:)

[ManofTheAtom]

Originally posted by mike616
Yeah, I like it.:)

Cool. :)

[mike616]

Originally posted by ManofTheAtom
Cool. :) Besides, it's a hell of alot better than the actual DC fourms.:cool:

[ManofTheAtom]

Originally posted by mike616
Besides, it's a hell of alot better than the actual DC fourms.:cool:

That goes without question.

I hope it stays that way. It should until someone posts how much better the Silver Age was and how much Byrne sucks, lol.

[mike616]

Originally posted by ManofTheAtom
That goes without question.

I hope it stays that way. It should until someone posts how much better the Silver Age was and how much Byrne sucks, lol. OMG: I hope that subject does not come up.:eek: I have long since given up on any kind of continuity on any comic I read.

[ManofTheAtom]

Originally posted by mike616
OMG: I hope that subject does not come up.:eek: I have long since given up on any kind of continuity on any comic I read.

U shouldn't. Just because Superman continuity is broken doesn't mean the same is true of the rest of the DC U.

One editor's mistakes shouldn't eclipse the great work other editors have done.

[mike616]

Originally posted by ManofTheAtom
U shouldn't. Just because Superman continuity is broken doesn't mean the same is true of the rest of the DC U.

One editor's mistakes shouldn't eclipse the great work other editoes have done. ok,:) I'll take your word for it.

[Fly'nAsian]

While we are on the topic of superman, whatever happened to the matrix that took form as supergirl? Please help!! much appreciated!!

[OMAC]

Originally posted by Fly'nAsian
While we are on the topic of superman, whatever happened to the matrix that took form as supergirl? Please help!! much appreciated!! The Matrix merged with Linda Danvers. She is now retired and hasn't been used for a couple of years, but it's a possibility that she'll be showing up in the Crisis.

[Fly'nAsian]

Originally posted by OMAC
The Matrix merged with Linda Danvers. She is now retired and hasn't been used for a couple of years, but it's a possibility that she'll be showing up in the Crisis.

Cool, thanks, but with the new supergirl, aren't you anticipating/expecting a meeting like the one kara had with Powergirl?
I've tried to catch up on all of DC's past 10 years or so, but the matrix and Linda is pretty much the only thing that I can't seem to get a hold on.

[Rich L]

Originally posted by Ret
As far as Lex knowing Clark's identity he forgot when Manchester Black killed himself. I think Manchester was also responsible for J'onn not being to able to read Lex's mind.

Manchester Black planted Lex's memory of finding out about Clark's identity (there are no satellite pics of the meteor hitting near Smallville) as part of his revenge; he later removed the knowledge just before his suicide at the end of 'Ending Battle'.

Lex's seeming drooling-near-insanity kind of stemmed from that, as he became paranoid that Superman was tampering with his mind (kinda ironic given IDC and all the fallout from that), and he scampered off in the battle suit, saying he knew a lot of things now...that battle suit has recently been shown to contain black kryptonite, which (in TV's Smallville) has been shown to split people in two...which might explain the cool business-Lex of Villains United and the slightly raving battlesuit Lex of Supergirl and S/B.

[ManofTheAtom]

This is what happened:

Supergirl/Matrix was called upon by the Danvers to search for their daughter Linda, which had been kidnapped.

Supergirl/Matrix found Linda just as she was being sacrificed by the demon Buzz to open a portal for a Cat-Demon to cross into our dimension. As Linda died Supergirl grabbed on to her and the two of them merged into an Earth Born Angel.

Linda's soul entered Supergirl's body, expelling the Matrix aspect out, which became an entity of its own, a sort of Bizarro Supergirl.

Fastforward 50 issues to a battle against I don't remember who, during which Supergirl/Matrix meets her guardian angel, Kara Zor-El and Linda and Supergirl are split apart.

Linda keeps powers akin to those of the Golden Age Superman while Supergirl's Earth Born Angel essense is carried away by the Chaos Stream, which Linda and a now mortal Buzz set out to find.

Fastforward two years to a final battle between Linda and Lilith in which Linda finds Supergirl's Earth Born Angel essense but instead of merging back with it, Supergirl merges with a girl called Twilight.

From that moment on (issue 74 until issue 80) Linda Danvers was a human with full modern age Superman Kryptonian powers.

After meeting Kara Zor-El and spending time on Earth 1, Linda has gone nuts and is locked in a room in Arkham Asylum saying the same thing over and over again:

"It was a monkey dressed like Superman... a monkey dressed like Superman..."

Ok, that last part's a joke :)

[cncoyle]

Originally posted by ManofTheAtom
Fastforward 50 issues to a battle against I don't remember who,The Carnivore (http://pc59te.dte.uma.es/cdb/series/dc/carnivore.htm) a.k.a. Mr. Carnivean
He was the first vampire.
Originally posted by ManofTheAtom
After meeting Kara Zor-El and spending time on Earth 1, Linda has gone nuts and is locked in a room in Arkham Asylum saying the same thing over and over again:

"It was a monkey dressed like Superman... a monkey dressed like Superman..."

Ok, that last part's a joke :) MoTA, you so crazy!:p Beppo the Super-Monkey is teh kewl!!1!!

LOL--I just realized, you've probably locked yourself in this DC sub-forum and thrown away the key, haven't you?;)

[ManofTheAtom]

Originally posted by cncoyle
The Carnivore (http://pc59te.dte.uma.es/cdb/series/dc/carnivore.htm) a.k.a. Mr. Carnivean
He was the first vampire.
MoTA, you so crazy!:p Beppo the Super-Monkey is teh kewl!!1!!

LOL--I just realized, you've probably locked yourself in this DC sub-forum and thrown away the key, haven't you?;)

Heh

[Solowooke]

For all we know clone Lex has gone the way of Cyber-Max Lord.

In one of the Superboy Flashbacks he was Bald and Old, maybe just a mistake, maybe a quiet little retcon.

[ManofTheAtom]

Originally posted by Solowooke
For all we know clone Lex has gone the way of Cyber-Max Lord.

In one of the Superboy Flashbacks he was Bald and Old, maybe just a mistake, maybe a quiet little retcon.

Someone said the same thing over at the DC boards. Another poster pointed out that in Superman/Batman Lex made comments about the effect that Kryptonite has on the human body, which implies that his death and cloning are still part of continuity.

It should be noted that the flashback in TT was from Conner's point of view, which it can be said was colored by his understanding that while it was Lex II who created him it was really a clone of the original Lex.

The context of the images in the flashback depend on the one remembering the events. It's not like someone traveled back in time to the point when Superboy was created. If that had been the case then Lex should have been Lex II.

[Solowooke]

So....artist mistake then?

[ManofTheAtom]

Originally posted by Solowooke
So....artist mistake then?

No, not really. It's not a mistake because we were seeing things through Conner's eyes.

Conner knows that Lex II was really a clone of Lex, so when he thinks back to that moment he has no reason to see Lex II, so he sees the original Lex.

[Solowooke]

See it seems like a reasonable explanation for a mistake or a justification of thier decision to use bald lex so the panel would not be confusing for new readers.

But... Superboy knew the young clone Lex, he never knew the original lex, but he should remember when he became the post underworld unleashed lex. So from superboys point of view, Young lex first, Bald lex second, so its weird to me to believe that he would remember the lex he didn't even know until he had been superboy for a least a while, as the one that would be around before his birth than the one that he met soon after his birth.

Do you follow me?

Edited to clarify my semantics.

[ManofTheAtom]

Originally posted by Solowooke
See it seems like a reasonable explanation for a mistake or a justification of thier decision to use bald lex so the panel would not be confusing for new readers.

But... Superboy knew the young clone Lex, he never knew the original lex, but he should remember when he became the post underworld unleashed lex. So from superboys point of view, Young lex first, Bald lex second, so its weird to me to believe that he would remember the lex he didn't even know until he had been superboy for a least a while, as the one that would be around before his birth than the one that he met soon after his birth.

Do you follow me?

Edited to clarify my semantics.

Well, keep in mind that the Lex we see in the flashback is the Post UU Lex Superboy knew, not the fat bald Lex who died of Kryptonite poisoning.

Superboy met them in the order you say, but he knows that Lex II was a clone of Lex I, so when he has this flashback he sees the real Lex as he knows him to look, in his Post UU body.

On a slight tangent, yet still related to this:

Remember when they gave away Baldy (sp?) awards? I think they gave them away to readers who caught a mistake in the comics.

I was just thinking that if they still did that they'd be giving them away to EVERYONE since the last six years worth of Superman comics are full of mistakes, both characterization, continuity, settings, eras, etc, etc, etc...

[Solowooke]

I get what your saying, I just don't know if I buy it.

With Birthright and Didio being so unapologetic about the max lord thing, I don't think anything more than two years ago is set in stone.

I kind of wish with all the retcons or strange continuity things that have been going on since about when Loeb and co. took over the books, that there was some way to do a sort of difinitive timeline of what still counts and what doesn't. The writers could probably use it too.

[Solowooke]

In order to do something like that you would need, I don't know something like


LETTER PAGES!

God I love letter pages. The comic just feels like its missing some intangible quality without them.

I love what thier doing with them in Legion.

[ManofTheAtom]

Originally posted by Solowooke
I get what your saying, I just don't know if I buy it.

With Birthright and Didio being so unapologetic about the max lord thing, I don't think anything more than two years ago is set in stone.

I kind of wish with all the retcons or strange continuity things that have been going on since about when Loeb and co. took over the books, that there was some way to do a sort of difinitive timeline of what still counts and what doesn't. The writers could probably use it too.

I think that far as Berganza's concerned the only thing that count is what he edited and anything that happened before Crisis.

Let's see what happens when Idelson takes over next year, hopefully he'll bring back a sense of real editing and responsability to the titles.

I do worry about the upcoming secret files, which has yet another retelling of Superman's origin. I bet it's another lame attempt to force Birthright to be the new origin.

[ManofTheAtom]

Originally posted by Solowooke
In order to do something like that you would need, I don't know something like


LETTER PAGES!

God I love letter pages. The comic just feels like its missing some intangible quality without them.

I love what thier doing with them in Legion.

I don't like them that much in Legion.

[Rafael_Z]

Wait...Lex Luthor 1 (fat, bald and old) died from Kryptonite poisoning but his brain was saved in a cloned body and became Lex Luthor 2 (young, atlethic and red-haired),right?.

But then what happened? How did Lex Luthor 2 transformed into Lex Luthor 3 (mid-aged, atlethic, bald and president for a short time)?

[ManofTheAtom]

Originally posted by Rafael_Z
Wait...Lex Luthor 1 (fat, bald and old) died from Kryptonite poisoning but his brain was saved in a cloned body and became Lex Luthor 2 (young, atlethic and red-haired),right?.

But then what happened? How did Lex Luthor 2 transformed into Lex Luthor 3 (mid-aged, atlethic, bald and president for a short time)?

Around the time of Action Comics 700 Lex II, a clone, was infected by a clone virus that put him in a coma.

After that he was contacted by the demon Neron, who in exchange for his soul restored Lex II back to his youtful self, but bald.

In theory, Luthor's current body is still the clone body, which Neron magically cured of the clone virus.

[Hawkmoon269]

Originally posted by ManofTheAtom
Around the time of Action Comics 700 Lex II, a clone, was infected by a clone virus that put him in a coma.

After that he was contacted by the demon Neron, who in exchange for his soul restored Lex II back to his youtful self, but bald.

In theory, Luthor's current body is still the clone body, which Neron magically cured of the clone virus.

It's really remarkable DC was able to pull off a semi-believable story with Lex becoming president given all the ABSOLUTE CRAP storylines that had gone on before. I personally thought it was clever and somewhat well-played out to have Lex president, but you really do have to ignore most of the post-Superman's-death continuity in order to make it believable for yourself. Luckily, most of those issues are easy to ignore because, no offense to the talent working on them at the time (I'm more inclined to focus my dismay against the editors), they were BAD.

[Hawkmoon269]

Originally posted by ManofTheAtom
Let's see what happens when Idelson takes over next year, hopefully he'll bring back a sense of real editing and responsability to the titles.

Sorry, but help me out here...what has Idelson worked on?

[ManofTheAtom]

Originally posted by Hawkmoon269
It's really remarkable DC was able to pull off a semi-believable story with Lex becoming president given all the ABSOLUTE CRAP storylines that had gone on before. I personally thought it was clever and somewhat well-played out to have Lex president, but you really do have to ignore most of the post-Superman's-death continuity in order to make it believable for yourself. Luckily, most of those issues are easy to ignore because, no offense to the talent working on them at the time (I'm more inclined to focus my dismay against the editors), they were BAD.

Not really. There were some very good Lex as fugitive stories, there was Final Night, the birth of Lena, the Contessa, his life story in Suicide Slum, etc.

I mean, I know it's not a masterpiece like Birthright where Lex cackled like a maniac, shacked his fist in the air, or yelled for no reason :p , but stories like that issue where he had his foster father kill the Mayor for humiliating him and we see the origin of the name Lena was very well done.

[ManofTheAtom]

Originally posted by Hawkmoon269
Sorry, but help me out here...what has Idelson worked on?

He's coming in from the Batman office.

[Hawkmoon269]

Originally posted by ManofTheAtom
the origin of the name Lena was very well done.

Help me out, there were a few years of stories I missed: what is the origin of her name? I didn't get into the whole Metropolis tech. thing.

[ManofTheAtom]

Originally posted by Hawkmoon269
Help me out, there were a few years of stories I missed: what is the origin of her name? I didn't get into the whole Metropolis tech. thing.

Nothing to do with that.

After Lex's parents died, even though he had the 300,000 dollars from the policy, he was sent to live with a foster family. That's where he met Lena, an orphaned girl who lived there.

Basically Lena was beaten to death by the foster father, so when Lex had his daughter he named her after her and he used the foster father to kill the Mayor of Metropolis.

In the Pre Crisis, Lena Luthor was Lex's equally-baled sister, who had telekenetic powers. Back then the character was played for laughs, while in this version she was added to put more drama in Lex's life.

Of course in BR this never happened anymore, now instead of moving in with the foster family and meeting Lena, Lex hired an actor that looks like Lionel Luthor and they got in a time machine and traveled forward in time to Smallville so he could chase meteor rocks, lol.

Now that's dramatic :p

This is the issue in question:

http://www.milehighcomics.com/cgi-bin/backissue.cgi?action=fullsize&issue=83756635410%20131

[Faz500]

Originally posted by Hawkmoon269
Hey, I hope some of you out there can help. These questions regard stories from the 2000 Superman titles reboot (seems like they're rebooted every year now, though). If you could answer with specific issue numbers as well, that would be outstanding.

1. In the President Lex special, Lex had a kryptonite ring that Batman wanted. Is this the same ring the original Lex Luthor had that gave him radiation poisoning, or some other ring? Is this the same ring that Batman now has in his possession, and if so, how did he eventually get it from Lex?


There was a 2 part story that began in Superman 168 and concluded in Detective Comics 756.