View Full Version : MY EPIC JOURNEY 10: FLASHBACK
MattBrady
07-07-2003, 06:50 AM
<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/sangiacomo/Epic2.jpg" width="200" height="304" border="0" hspace="2" align="right"><I>by Mike San Giacomo </I>
<I>This is a weekly look at the process of writing a comic for Marvel’s new Epic line, <b>Phantom Jack</b>, which was to be called <b>Nowhere Man</b> until THE MAN made me change the name.
My story and script about Jack Baxter, a newspaper reporter who can turn invisible, was greenlighted by the powers that be at Marvel. Last week, I reported conflicting instructions from various folks at Marvel about when the reader should learn of Jack’s powers. Armed with that, and some suggestions that Jack needs a little deeper motivation, I was getting ready for another rewrite.</I>
But before that happened...
Even though I had been working on writing and rewriting scripts for <b>Nowhere Man</b>, to be renamed <b>Phantom Jack</b> there was still an air of unreality about it. This became clear when a friend at work said, “Well, are you sure Marvel is going to publish it?”
No, not really.
I mean, we had talked about it very briefly. But I had not found an artist, inker or colorist and Marvel seemed to be in no hurry for me to get to that point. This got me thinking that this could all fall apart at any second.
Then, as if on cue, I got an e-mail from Marvel’s publicity guy Mike Doran asking if I would be available for a press conference on April 15. For a moment I thought it was one of the semi-regular telephone press conferences that Marvel holds. Then I realized what he was saying, the press conference was about Epic and John Jackson Miller and I were to be on the receiving end of the questions.
That was weird.
I agreed and that was the moment that I was sure that Marvel was serious about printing the comic. Cool.
The press conference was as much a learning experience for me as everyone else. When Marvel President Bill Jemas introduced the subject he said that Marvel invited critics from many comic newsites or fansites to try their hand at writing a book. There were more than 150 pitches turned in by critics and other invitees. Almost all were rejected. Miller’s <b>Crimson Dynamo</b> and my <b>Nowhere Man/Phantom</b> Jack were the first two greenlighted. I think more will eventually follow from the original batch of submissions, but at that time it’s just us chickens.
I’m especially amused when some critics, who pitched projects that didn’t make it, now come out swinging the “conflict of interest” bat. I should note here that I still have not seen a dime from Marvel. I look at <b>Phantom Jack</b> as a chance to see how the other half lives, not a vocation. I believe I can walk the fence being a critic and a creator for a few months, much as Peter David, Tony Isabella, Maggie Thompson, Stuart Moore and others have done.
The press conference was pleasant. Miller, whose project was moving ahead like greased lightning, fielded most of the questions. One came from Heidi McDonald who asked Miller if he would consider keeping a blog of his experience writing the book. He quickly said “No.” I could almost hear Newsarama’s Matt Brady’s brain clicking.
Shortly after the press conference, he e-mailed me if I wanted to do what Heidi suggested. Since I was already spending much of my “free” time writing something or other, I declined. Matt persisted, noting that it would be a good way to show potential Epic creators and everyone else who’s interested in what the process may be like, as well as get the word out about the comic. Well, on second thought, maybe I do owe something to the people who will follow me. Ahem. And that is how we all ended up here today.
The best thing to come out of the press conference were e-mails from artists, inkers, colorists and letterers, all wondering if I had a crew lined up. I decided that I would worry about finding an artist first since all the writers I talked to said this was nearly impossible.
Hah, it was a piece of cake.
No, that’s not right, it was a half-dozen pieces of really tasty cakes and I was only allowed to choose one. Mitch Breitweiser was the first person to e-mail me after the press conference had been featured on various websites. He told me about his experience in the field and sent along some samples of his work.
As I have written earlier, Mitch, Jim Muniz and Jun Kim were the three artists in competition for the book. All three contacted me within hours of the press conference. I sent them out a few pages of the script for the first issue and told them to go nuts. I would have been thrilled to have any of them draw the book, and would strongly recommend them to anyone else who needs an artist, but what clinched the deal for Mitch was two things.
He designed this very cool <b>Nowhere Man</b> logo that you see elsewhere on this page and he sent a single sheet drawing of his idea of what Jack Baxter would look like. Keep in mind we had not talked about the look of the character. All he had to go on was the rather sketchy description in the pages I sent him.
He nailed him so perfectly it was almost scary. The original is now at a shop being professionally framed. So here it was, April 18, and I had a press conference and an artist. It’s time to rock and roll. As soon as I finish this last rewrite.
<center><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/sangiacomo/noweherman-logo2.jpg" width="500" height="156" border="0" hspace="2"></center>
NEXT WEEK: Hey, this gets easier….
<I>Mike Sangiacomo, a freelance writer for Newsarama and other sources, was invited to share his experiences with pitching to Epic by Newsarama's editor, Matt Brady, in the interest of keeping readers well informed. Brady advises Newsarama readers that he is aware of the inherent conflict of interest presented by journalists working for a publisher they cover. Sangiacomo's regular column Journey Into Comics has and will continue to be found in the Opinion/Editorial section of Newsarama. Brady has not, nor does he plan to pitch to Epic himself. </I>
TVerBeek
07-07-2003, 08:36 AM
I've been enjoying these commentaries, but the fact that you're talking about events from a few months ago puts a point on something that's been frustrating me a bit. So an "editorial" suggestion: Can you pick up the pace a bit? It's beginning to feel like I'm reading a sprawling 300-issue mini-series, and if it takes this long for things to happen in Phantom Jack, you're in d-e-e-p trouble. Could you at least throw in a fight scene to liven things up? :)
Tom Daylight
07-07-2003, 09:09 AM
Ghost Writer?
Prozac Man
07-07-2003, 10:37 AM
Aaaaaa!
What happened to the editorial dispute! You can’t just leave us hanging like this. The back stage drama is what makes this series of articles a must read. It is like a real life version of the movie “Adaptation”. The farther along the Epic journey the more intriguing it became. What happened? :(
mikesang
07-07-2003, 11:34 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fetsur
Ghost Writer? [/QUOTE
That is a great name!
M
mikesang
07-07-2003, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by TVerBeek
I've been enjoying these commentaries, but the fact that you're talking about events from a few months ago puts a point on something that's been frustrating me a bit. So an "editorial" suggestion: Can you pick up the pace a bit? It's beginning to feel like I'm reading a sprawling 300-issue mini-series, and if it takes this long for things to happen in Phantom Jack, you're in d-e-e-p trouble. Could you at least throw in a fight scene to liven things up? :)
Mike San Giacomo
I'll try, but I thought you guys wanted to know the whole painful process. Okay, I'll include a car chase next week.
M
Jun Kim
07-07-2003, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by mikesang
Mike San Giacomo
I'll try, but I thought you guys wanted to know the whole painful process. Okay, I'll include a car chase next week.
M
A Car chase scene!!! Yeah... kinda like the one on Ronin?
LOL..
KentL
07-07-2003, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by mikesang
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fetsur
Ghost Writer? [/QUOTE
That is a great name!
M
True, but you'll probably run into similar problems with Marvel's legal team with this name. A few years ago PBS aired an educational series called "GhostWriter" about a ghost that wrote clues on various media (notepads, chalkboards, computers, etc) to help a group of kids solve mysteries. It was a decent little show and pretty popular for a while. Apparently, it can still be found on Noggin (http://www.nickjr.com/grownups/teachers/supplies/shows/ghostwriter_splash.jhtml) (a Nickelodeon spin-off).
KentL
MattBrady
07-07-2003, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by Jun Kim
A Car chase scene!!! Yeah... kinda like the one on Ronin?
LOL..
no - The French Connection.
MattB
Doug Smith
07-07-2003, 12:43 PM
Forget car chases, we need some gratuitous nudity. :D
Mike, yet another interesting column - thanks as always. I'm still curious about the "co-writer" option that was mentioned before - did Ms. Moore ever give you any idea of exactly what this co-writer would be doing - story structure, dialogue, etc?
mikesang
07-07-2003, 12:43 PM
Originally posted by KentL
True, but you'll probably run into similar problems with Marvel's legal team with this name. A few years ago PBS aired an educational series called "GhostWriter" about a ghost that wrote clues on various media (notepads, chalkboards, computers, etc) to help a group of kids solve mysteries. It was a decent little show and pretty popular for a while. Apparently, it can still be found on Noggin (http://www.nickjr.com/grownups/teachers/supplies/shows/ghostwriter_splash.jhtml) (a Nickelodeon spin-off).
KentL
Mike Sangiacomo Here:
Yeah, I thought of the TV show too. I know, how about a play on words - Ghost Rider???
Zadillo
07-07-2003, 12:57 PM
How about Ghost Righter, "Righter of Wrongs"?
-Zadillo
(sorry :rolleyes: )
Jun Kim
07-07-2003, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by MattBrady
no - The French Connection.
MattB
Hmmm... this dialog sounds conspicuously similar to a recent Pontiac car commercial... ;)
Tom Daylight
07-07-2003, 01:30 PM
Originally posted by KentL
True, but you'll probably run into similar problems with Marvel's legal team with this name. A few years ago PBS aired an educational series called "GhostWriter" about a ghost that wrote clues on various media (notepads, chalkboards, computers, etc) to help a group of kids solve mysteries. It was a decent little show and pretty popular for a while. Apparently, it can still be found on Noggin (http://www.nickjr.com/grownups/teachers/supplies/shows/ghostwriter_splash.jhtml) (a Nickelodeon spin-off).
KentL
Didn't seem to be a problem with "Nowhere Man" until they found out somebody had already done it as a comic book.
Alias, too. ;)
Originally posted by MattBrady
Even though I had been working on writing and rewriting scripts for <b>Nowhere Man</b>, to be renamed <b>Phantom Jack</b> there was still an air of unreality about it. This became clear when a friend at work said, “Well, are you sure Marvel is going to publish it?”
No, not really.
I mean, we had talked about it very briefly. But I had not found an artist, inker or colorist and Marvel seemed to be in no hurry for me to get to that point. This got me thinking that this could all fall apart at any second.
Then, as if on cue, I got an e-mail from Marvel’s publicity guy Mike Doran asking if I would be available for a press conference on April 15. For a moment I thought it was one of the semi-regular telephone press conferences that Marvel holds. Then I realized what he was saying, the press conference was about Epic and John Jackson Miller and I were to be on the receiving end of the questions.
That was weird.
I agreed and that was the moment that I was sure that Marvel was serious about printing the comic. Cool.
This confusses me a little.
Does Marvel offer their Epic writers some kind of contract stipulating what they are doing (i.e limited story (aka one shot), three issue limited story (aka mini series) etc), how much they are getting paid to do it, stuff like that?
What I mean is that at this point you've just announced the project but you haven't signed any contract that says you have to do it, have you? (unless I missed something in a previous column).
Doug Smith
07-07-2003, 02:40 PM
Actually, the talk of contracts and how you hadn't been paid anything by Marvel brings up an interesting point. We all know what the pay structure is for Epic books, but when you are asked to do rewrite after rewrite, at what point does it become "asking too much for what I'm being paid"?
Or is that just par for the course when working as a writer in the work-for-hire system?
And I ask not so much for your stance on it Mike, but for the aspiring fans (like myself) who may end up doing 7 or 8 rewrites for the same base pay.
Not that we should complain, mind you! ;)
MSlander
07-07-2003, 03:00 PM
RE: Moving it along...
Isn't it pretty obvious that Mike has been given the editorial mandate from Newsarama on high to pad his story out so that it can be marketed later as the inevitable trade paperback edition...
Natch...
-- MS
Jun Kim
07-07-2003, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by MSlander
RE: Moving it along...
Isn't it pretty obvious that Mike has been given the editorial mandate from Newsarama on high to pad his story out so that it can be marketed later as the inevitable trade paperback edition...
Natch...
-- MS
LOL...
mikesang
07-07-2003, 03:50 PM
Originally posted by ManofTheAtom
This confusses me a little.
Does Marvel offer their Epic writers some kind of contract stipulating what they are doing (i.e limited story (aka one shot), three issue limited story (aka mini series) etc), how much they are getting paid to do it, stuff like that?
What I mean is that at this point you've just announced the project but you haven't signed any contract that says you have to do it, have you? (unless I missed something in a previous column).
Mike San Giacomo here:
I signed a very simple work-for-hire contract that essentially said I was submitting work to Marvel for its consideration. I shamefacedly admit that I didn't pay much attention to it, just signed it and sent it off. Financial terms were not in it.
M
Originally posted by mikesang
Mike San Giacomo here:
I signed a very simple work-for-hire contract that essentially said I was submitting work to Marvel for its consideration. I shamefacedly admit that I didn't pay much attention to it, just signed it and sent it off. Financial terms were not in it.
M
But you are getting a contract detailing what I mentioned above and more, aren't you? Or is that work for hire contract it?
I mention this because it's weird that you don't know if you're getting published or not while Marvel is already setting up a press conference to announce that you are.
You'd think that the writer would find out before hand...
MisterE
07-07-2003, 05:23 PM
Agreed with the gentleman near the top. These articles either need to be longer or they need to be more frequent. How about Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays?
-E-
Jun Kim
07-07-2003, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by MisterE
Agreed with the gentleman near the top. These articles either need to be longer or they need to be more frequent. How about Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays?
-E-
Yeah... come on, mike. We know you got spare time to burn... :p
mikesang
07-07-2003, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by MisterE
Agreed with the gentleman near the top. These articles either need to be longer or they need to be more frequent. How about Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays?
-E-
Shoot me, shoot me now.
M
karmapunk
07-07-2003, 08:53 PM
. . . And after all the name changin' hoopla over here:
Ladies and Gentlemen I present you with this year's Eisner award nominee for New Talent Most Worthy of Recognition (drum roll). . . .
Nowhere Girl!
Check it out at Comic Book Resources Front page. I doubt she had any trouble with her lawyers.
-matt
Zadillo
07-07-2003, 08:58 PM
Originally posted by karmapunk
. . . And after all the name changin' hoopla over here:
Ladies and Gentlemen I present you with this year's Eisner award nominee for New Talent Most Worthy of Recognition (drum roll). . . .
Nowhere Girl!
Check it out at Comic Book Resources Front page. I doubt she had any trouble with her lawyers.
-matt
Captain Nowhere.... Nowhere Lad.....
-Zadillo
danzo
07-08-2003, 05:26 AM
Originally posted by Doug Smith
Actually, the talk of contracts and how you hadn't been paid anything by Marvel brings up an interesting point. We all know what the pay structure is for Epic books, but when you are asked to do rewrite after rewrite, at what point does it become "asking too much for what I'm being paid"?
Or is that just par for the course when working as a writer in the work-for-hire system?
And I ask not so much for your stance on it Mike, but for the aspiring fans (like myself) who may end up doing 7 or 8 rewrites for the same base pay.
Not that we should complain, mind you! ;)
thanks, Doug, the perfect opportunity to bring up a point that keeps bouncing around my brain: why so many re-writes? not to dis, but it seems that both the original pitch was a little weak (much of this should have been hashed-out in 'self-edit' mode) and the supposedly 'non-interfering' Epic Editorial Dept. has had a lot to say, being hands-off and all.... what's up with that? the implications here aren't the prettiest.... (I.E., a need for a specific 'product', one by an 'outsider', proof of concept as it were.)
still, sounds like a fun ride....
Broken Shakespe
07-08-2003, 11:36 AM
Mike,
All this raises a few questions. How can you possibly hope to publish this as a monthly comic? SO far, it seems that you've chronicled eight weeks of involvment with Marvel and you still aren't at a finished script. Then add to that the time it takes for the various art chores and you're looking at three or more months to produce a single issue (assuming there are no more rewrites on the horizon).
Do you really believe that you can produce a successful comic that requires that much effort? I know things will go a bit more smoothly the next issue, lessons learned and all. But it still seems like it would take half the amount of time, if not more. The time may decrease with each subsequent issue as long as you learn how to do it Marvel's way, but for the first three or four issues (and isn't this a mini?) is going to take quite a while if work continues to proceed as you have documented.
I guess this all leads to my final question. Is EPIC going to wait until you have all your issues "in the can" before they go ahead with publishing? If not, do you fell that with all you've encountered, you'll be able to turn out a monthly/bi-monthly book on schedule? Or will it turn out to be another Battle Chasers where no one will be certain when the next issue might hit the stands?
Half a season of a weekly TV drama can be written AND filmed in the time it has taken you to get to a not-quite-final draft of the first issue of your series. Hopefully all EPIC books don't go this route or EPIC is dead before it starts (and I really want to see EPIC take off).
Jun Kim
07-08-2003, 12:34 PM
Just a reminder to many reading Mike's EPIC Journey column that Mike is journaling events that have begun in November of 2002, not what is happening these current weeks. Much of the "rewrite" issues and even confusing directions have much to do with the fact that he has participated in this process while Marvel themselves did not have their acts together and even before EPIC went live... hence, Mike the "guinea pig"...
I think it's safe to assume that they've been full production mode ever since they chose the full creative teams.
mikesang
07-08-2003, 12:44 PM
Originally posted by Broken Shakespe
Mike,
All this raises a few questions. How can you possibly hope to publish this as a monthly comic? SO far, it seems that you've chronicled eight weeks of involvment with Marvel and you still aren't at a finished script. Then add to that the time it takes for the various art chores and you're looking at three or more months to produce a single issue (assuming there are no more rewrites on the horizon).
Do you really believe that you can produce a successful comic that requires that much effort? I know things will go a bit more smoothly the next issue, lessons learned and all. But it still seems like it would take half the amount of time, if not more. The time may decrease with each subsequent issue as long as you learn how to do it Marvel's way, but for the first three or four issues (and isn't this a mini?) is going to take quite a while if work continues to proceed as you have documented.
I guess this all leads to my final question. Is EPIC going to wait until you have all your issues "in the can" before they go ahead with publishing? If not, do you fell that with all you've encountered, you'll be able to turn out a monthly/bi-monthly book on schedule? Or will it turn out to be another Battle Chasers where no one will be certain when the next issue might hit the stands?
Half a season of a weekly TV drama can be written AND filmed in the time it has taken you to get to a not-quite-final draft of the first issue of your series. Hopefully all EPIC books don't go this route or EPIC is dead before it starts (and I really want to see EPIC take off).
Mike San Giacomo here:
I think all the thunder and lightning was over the first issue and working out the basic concepts. Issue 2 sailed right through and issue 3 is also in their hands. Issues 4 and 5 are in the synopses stage but been approved. The full scripts will be down for those in a couple weeks. I think the slowness of this whole process is because Marvel is being very careful, probably too careful, with the first few books in the line.
As I have said before, there's no way this kind of extreme attention to detail can continue in later series.
In terms of whole long will the series go, that all depends on how it sells I think. If Marvel wants a monthly, they will have it. Mitch and I, as well as the rest of the team, can easily produce a monthly book. Once such a commitment is made by Marvel, the editing process will speed up immensely.
OH, AND TO THE GUY ABOVE WHO SAID THE CONCEPT SEEMS THIN,
How would you know? I've only talked about the basic bits of the book, akin to saying "Batman is a detective in a mask." The character and his abilities are just a starting point, the trick is taking that stuff and making it work. Look at what Alan Moore did with Swamp THing "a half-man/half-plant."
See what I mean?
M
Doug Smith
07-08-2003, 12:53 PM
As far as having multiple issues "in the can" before soliciting: Marvel has said that they may do this, in an effort to keep books on schedule. Can't blame them for that either: unproven writers and artists without editors pushing them could be a recipe for scheduling disaster.
Not that Marvel hasn't had plenty of problems with established pros being on schedule anyway... :rolleyes:
mikesang
07-08-2003, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by Doug Smith
As far as having multiple issues "in the can" before soliciting: Marvel has said that they may do this, in an effort to keep books on schedule. Can't blame them for that either: unproven writers and artists without editors pushing them could be a recipe for scheduling disaster.
Not that Marvel hasn't had plenty of problems with established pros being on schedule anyway... :rolleyes:
Mike here:
I think it's a good idea, nothing like late issues to kill the momentum on a project.
M
KalnD
07-09-2003, 05:22 PM
Wasn't there a character called "Jack Phantom" in ABC's "Top Ten"? Does that present a problem?
TVerBeek
07-09-2003, 10:07 PM
Originally posted by KalnD
Wasn't there a character called "Jack Phantom" in ABC's "Top Ten"? Does that present a problem? Probably not. It's OK to have two characters with similar - or even identical - names (e.g. Captain Marvel, currently appearing in books from both DC and Marvel). You just can't have two products (e.g. comicbook series) with the same name. So they could call the guy "Nowhere Man" (or heck, maybe even "Batman") inside the book, but if there's already another publication called Nowhere Man (and it seems there is), then Marvel has to find something else to put on the cover. And since all ABC ever put on the cover of their book was Top 10, that means Phantom Jack is up for grabs.
TVerBeek
07-09-2003, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by Zadillo
How about Ghost Righter, "Righter of Wrongs"?Ooh! I'm going to do a series "Ghost Riter" about a virtuous priest forced to wander the earth performing sacraments until someone performs last rites for him. :)
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