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MattBrady
07-01-2003, 06:50 AM
<center><a href="http://www.newsarama.com/Thousand_Flowers_index.htm"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/flowers/flowers_banner.jpg" width="475" height="75" border="0"></a></center>

<center>A THOUSAND FLOWERS</center><center>Comics, Pop Culture, and the World Outside</center><center>Installment 21</center><center>by Stuart Moore</center>


<b>Girls, Girls, Girls!</b>

This column doesn’t usually deal in current comics events -- there are plenty of other venues for that. But there’s just too much going on this week for me to resist the temptation. And there’s one particular controversy going on that I just can’t ignore.

Who will be <b>America’s Next Top Model</b>?

I’ve never seen anything like this on the message boards. So many people had such strong opinions; they crashed the entire Newsarama server. Joe Quesada and Micah Wright can’t stop talking about it. Even Rich Johnston’s secret source “Felicia” has an opinion, if you can penetrate his -- oh, sorry, I mean <b>her</b> wall of secrecy.

<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/flowers/Tyrawiz.jpg" width="250" height="345" align="right">I admit to a preference for Elyse. She’s the nerd wet-dream, of course -- the “smart one.” Everybody on these shows has to have a pigeonhole, what a book editor friend of mine once described as a “character trait that substitutes for real characterization.” Elyse is also the one with the alleged eating disorder (unlike, uh, all the other ones). So she’s kind of dark and brooding, as well as smart, self-possessed, and really really skinny.

But then, Adrianne is pretty damn funny, and she’s not too tough to look at either. I like the way she’s always making fun of the other girls or backstabbing them, but she goes completely to pieces whenever she’s alone. Did you see that nervous breakdown she almost had on the streets of Paris?

Let’s back up and see if we can put this in perspective. The whole internet riot started last week, when “Felicia” leaked the news that Kesse was going to be voted off the show. Fan reaction was immediate and vociferous. Here’s what one poster had to say on the Comicon Pulse boards:

“Ya know, it's boneheaded moves like this that are just confirming my desire to drop <b>America’s Next Top Model</b> and wait for the DVDs. That way I can have nice little runs of good work and not have to concern myself with the politics of <b>America’s Next Top Model</b>. I think three DVDs from Kesse would look perfect on my shelves. Same goes for the CSI shows, and various mini-series which seem to be released as DVDs weeks after each arc is completed.”

I’m not surprised Kesse got dropped. She was kind of a Christian, but not a crazy Christian like Robin. She was kind of cool, but not funny like Adrianne. She just didn’t have enough of her own character trait. And she really <b>did</b> look too much like Tyra, didn’t she?

Still, we all have our fans. Dick Giordano once told me DC had never cancelled a book -- no matter how low-selling, no matter how creatively bankrupt -- without getting letters protesting that it was the reader’s favorite title, and how could they possibly kill it? Same with Kesse, I guess.

Over on the venerable Usenet, the fans had wildly divergent opinions:

“I'm pleased to see Kesse gone from <b>America’s Next Top Model</b>. Her run has so far been an incredibly simplistic, juvenile take on <b>America’s Next Top Model</b>, redolent of a children's TV cartoon.”

On the other hand:

“That's crap. <B>America’s Next Top Model’s</B> been better under Kesse than it has been in years. It's actually been intelligent and aimed at people who love lipstick and makeup rather than the slam-bam binge-and-puke for the 300th time crap that <B>America’s Next Top Model</B> usually puts out.”

It’s pretty funny -- and, I’m sure, not at all staged -- the way Elyse and Adrianne keep baiting the Christians. I laughed like hell when they were looking up dirty phrases out loud in the French dictionary. At the same time, it was pretty mean. You kind of understood what Robin meant when she drawled, “I don’t speak like that.”

Over at the Joe Quesada site, one commentator said this:

“I think Robin is more concerned about the reputation of <B>America’s Next Top Model</B> than her own reputation. Bash Robin personally and she generally doesn't care. But Adrianne was bashing everything from editors to the decor of the offices. Worse, she was claiming that <B>America’s Next Top Model</B> was a big sham. There are lots of people working very hard to make <B>America’s Next Top Model</B> a reality, both aspiring creators and people working at <B>America’s Next Top Model</B>, and Adrianne’s insinuations were discouraging and insulting.”

<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/flowers/elyse.jpg" width="250" height="182" align="left">Shannon’s kind of a mystery to me. I understand that she’s the token blonde, but when she opens her mouth -- man! Here’s her life motto, from the <B>America’s Next Top Model</B> website:

“Live every day to its fullest, because no one is guaranteed tomorrow.”

Is she really that stupid? <b>Rich Johnston</b> (http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/?column=13 ) thinks the problem goes deeper that that:

“One model was heard to comment that she remembers all the things that happened at <b> I’m A Celebrity -- Get Me Out Of Here!</b> before bankruptcy, and she knows exactly how far <B>America’s Next Top Model</B> are along the same path. And the phones have been ringing across the city. Most <B>America’s Next Top Model</B> models are believed to have been in touch with <b>Fear Factor</b> of late, looking for job opportunities. One who hasn't, is Elyse, although <b>Fear Factor</b> have been headhunting her back.”

<B>America’s Next Top Model</B>’s ratings have been decent, but as the past few years have shown, the show just loves to rile up its fans. Hence the week’s other, very controversial news: that a resurrected Princess Diana would join the contestants for an upcoming storyline. From the Pulse boards:

“Vulgar and tacky, and certainly not all that funny. And I'm someone who was ready to chuck his TV after the week of death/funeral coverage. I daresay that <B>America’s Next Top Model</B> is having a typically pointless week, ain't it?”

Another poster added:

“I'm not responding to the story itself. I'm responding to <B>America’s Next Top Model</B>'s announcement of this ‘juicy’ project and the sensationalist forum it used to do so, where the notion of using a dead woman to garner publicity without any knowledge of the story or its tone was greeted with yelps of ‘Wow’ and ‘Awesome’ and laughs; none of which <B>America’s Next Top Model</B> took issue with or sought to change the tenor of the announcement.”

Which led to the witty comeback:

“I take it you are retarded and have limited reading skills?”

The Diana-themed show was denounced in the House of Commons, a long-standing tradition that, contrary to “NuMODEL’s” detractors, does not bode ill for an entertainment property’s future salability. (It didn’t hurt Garth Ennis’s <b>Hellblazer</b> any.) But the flap reached such a threshold this week that <B>America’s Next Top Model</B> talent coordinator Pete Milligan himself stepped in, writing in an article for the UK newspaper <I>The Guardian</I> (http://www.guardian.co.uk/monarchy/story/0,2763,984675,00.html )

“I thought it was time we had a real dead girl in the team, and, clearly, Diana was made for <B>America’s Next Top Model</B>: someone famous for being famous. In the world of <b> Survivor Australian Outback</b>, women are feared and hated. In <B>America’s Next Top Model</B>, they have turned this around and made themselves stars - glamorous, rich and powerful. That seems, to me, to be pretty much what Diana did inside the royal family.”

The pressure is heating up on <B>America’s Next Top Model</B>. Tonight, they’ll have to vote off either vacant blonde Shannon; full-figured Christian nut Robin; snarky Adrianne; or smart, skinny Elyse (no chance!). It takes a strong, self-assured model to keep a cool head under those circumstances, particularly while under assault from crazed fans -- and trying to figure out the Metro system with just that little bitty map.

I believe the people behind <B>America’s Next Top Model</B> are up to the challenge -- but the next few weeks will tell the tale. And there will be doubters, including Rich Johnston’s impeccable source “Felicia.” He -- I mean she -- had {URL=http://www.dynamicforces.com/htmlfiles/tommy43b.html] <b>these words</b> to say last week, which may sum up the whole, tempestuous affair:

“As far as damage to <B>America’s Next Top Model</B>, well...they lost Kesse. I think that's pretty damaging, but the most damage they are doing right now is happening within. The way they treat their employees and the disrespect that they have for a lot of good models. That is what will do them in if they continue. Most likely they won't admit to it until it's too late, and by then many of the fans will be voting with their wallets after there are no more good models to stop bad decisions.”

Now, it could be that “Felicia” is just being catty -- I have a hunch that he (SHE!) wouldn’t stack up too well against world-caliber beauties like Elyse and Adrianne. But here’s my advice, ladies: Keep watching the internet for cracks in the makeup and brand-new wrinkle lines. Except on Tuesday from 9 to 10 PM, of course.

**

Stuart Moore has been a writer, a comics editor for Vertigo and Marvel Knights, a kitchen worker, a book editor, and the nighttime manager of the Lawrenceville, NJ Woolworth's curtain department. He has won the Will Eisner award for Best Editor 1996 and the Don Thompson Award for Favorite Editor 1999.

My current comics work: JUSTICE LEAGUE ADVENTURES #22, coming in August, features a nice stand-alone story spotlighting Green Lantern and Hawkgirl; details and a great cover image <b>here</b> (http://www.dccomics.com/comics/dc_display.html?cm_dc_itemCode=jladv22&month=August) . Next up is LONE, a new future-western series from Dark Horse/Rocket Comics in September, likewise previewed at <b>Rocket Comics.net</b> (http://www.rocketcomics.net/profile.html?SKU=12196). More details on these and other new projects, including GIANT ROBOT WARRIORS, VAMPIRELLA, and PARA, <b>here</b> (http://www.newsarama.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=00026 1) and <b>here</b> (http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/pulse.cgi?http%3A//www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi%3Fubb%3Dget_topic%26f%3D3 6%26t%3D001073).

I have no idea if <B>America’s Next Top Model</B> airs abroad -- if not, my apologies to all my international readers for a senseless column. When the show is finally exported, you’ll laugh like hell, I promise …

Rich Johnston
07-01-2003, 08:56 AM
It's not. But we get things like context... 8-).

I'm flattered. I think...

More America's Next Top Model in Lying In The Gusset (http://litg.comicbookresources.com) every Monday!

Barry
07-01-2003, 11:38 AM
I get what he's trying to do with this column but it just ain't workin'. Nice try tho...

TheWriteJerry
07-01-2003, 11:48 AM
Excellent column, Stuart! You are now firmly in the lead for Best Writer - Sarcastic Parody Catagory. I may have actually cracked a rib while reading this.

But then, amidst the painkiller-induced haze, while some comely nurse named Jean wrapped bandages around my mid-section, it struck me -- Stuart knows way too much about the current season of America’s Next Top Model. Sure, he worked backstage there for a while, but unless he has an inside source, how could he be so intimate with the models' details?

Unless Stuart is indeed "she" -- I mean "he" -- the omnipotent Felicia!

Nah, not possible. Stuart completely left out the controversy concerning the rumor that Tyra Banks herself would step in to take contestant Kesse's place. Felicia -- well she (he) would have dwelled on that bit of juice.


Jerry A. Novick
Rumor Free for 5 Years Now

TemporalFlux
07-01-2003, 01:03 PM
I would agree with the Giordano analogy, but it has an inherent and fatal flaw. Do mutliple comic websites and bulletin boards crash every time a title is cancelled? Newsarama's boards were down for more than a week after "Kesse" was "voted off". That didn't even happen with the successful Spider-Girl campaign.

It's just not the same situation...it's not some small collection of people (as I'm sure Brady could verify through his hit count). 5 or 6 people just don't crash multiple sites on hearing the news. You don't have over 100 posts of unanimous, angry dissent in less than 12 hours for every decision a company makes. In fact, I've only seen it once - the day we found out "Kesse" was "voted off".

Basically this attempt at being clever has only shown two things - Stuart Moore doesn't care for "Kesse", and Stuart Moore will throw all reason to the wind so he too can shamelessly help to defend "America's Next Top Model".

MattBrady
07-01-2003, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by TheWriteJerry
Stuart knows way too much about the current season of America’s Next Top Model.

Yeah, that kind of weirded me out as well.

just when you think you know a guy...

MattB

Zonker
07-01-2003, 01:38 PM
Kesse is off "America's Next Top Model?"

Now, Waid just a goll-durn minute there, bucko! ;)

Cheers,
Z.

willyd
07-01-2003, 02:12 PM
Again, this column is valuable real estate that newsarama should be using for...I don't know...comics related reporting. When was the last "Looking Back" feature, highlighting classic books and storylines? When was that last "Catching Up" feature, bringing us up to date on the latest and greatest?

I know Moore's done good work in, and for, the industry, but these columns are pointless. Like the last one, the "Star Wars" one. If he can't actually discuss issues pertaining to the industry (I for one would have liked to have an EDITOR'S perspective on the Waid controversy..."When creators won't toe the line" and so forth) then he should make these colums bi-monthly and give newsarama the opportunity to produce more relevant content.

Michael C Lorah
07-01-2003, 03:02 PM
If I had the foggiest notion what America's Next Great Model was, I might've been make a little more sense out of this. But my schedule lately acts like a very thick pop culture shell.

At least I've heard of most of the movies in the theatre today, even if I've been to a theatre maybe twice all year.
But, TV, forget it. I'm totally clueless these days......

TheWriteJerry
07-01-2003, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by Michael C Lorah
If I had the foggiest notion what America's Next Great Model was, I might've been make a little more sense out of this. But my schedule lately acts like a very thick pop culture shell.

At least I've heard of most of the movies in the theatre today, even if I've been to a theatre maybe twice all year.
But, TV, forget it. I'm totally clueless these days......


It's simple, really. It's a show with extremely skinny woman who fit into clothes 99% of the women in the world could never wear, who are not yet paid professional models, competing for the chance to be the next big supermodel from America.

And in Stuart's world, these women also write comic books and run major publishing houses. Except for one named Felicia, who despite her (his?) extensive knowledge of the behind-the-scenes workings of modeling still has some gender issues to work through.


Jerry
I worked my way through issue #314, but then I started renumbering back at #1

Stuart Moore
07-01-2003, 04:37 PM
Just to clarify one thing: When I quoted Dick Giordano in the column, I definitely WAS referring to Kesse -- not to Mark Waid (or JOE A.I.M., for that matter). She really didn't have many fans...

Best,
Stuart

genetic freak
07-01-2003, 07:25 PM
Originally posted by Stuart Moore
Just to clarify one thing: When I quoted Dick Giordano in the column, I definitely WAS referring to Kesse -- not to Mark Waid (or JOE A.I.M., for that matter). She really didn't have many fans...

Best,
Stuart

Bwa ha Hah haH HA ha haah -- wheez-- cough-- ha Ha HA hah HAh Ha!!!

Whoever said that explaining a joke kills the humor in it is wrong.:D

TemporalFlux
07-01-2003, 08:45 PM
So in an article full of thinly veiled analogy, we were supposed to be able to pick out the one line that was magically serious.

I'm beginning to wonder if professional writing assignments are handed out in boxes of Cracker Jacks.

Arturo Bandini
07-01-2003, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by willyd
Again, this column is valuable real estate that newsarama should be using for...I don't know...comics related reporting. When was the last "Looking Back" feature, highlighting classic books and storylines? When was that last "Catching Up" feature, bringing us up to date on the latest and greatest?

I know Moore's done good work in, and for, the industry, but these columns are pointless. Like the last one, the "Star Wars" one. If he can't actually discuss issues pertaining to the industry (I for one would have liked to have an EDITOR'S perspective on the Waid controversy..."When creators won't toe the line" and so forth) then he should make these colums bi-monthly and give newsarama the opportunity to produce more relevant content.


Actually, I think Stuart's column is usually really, really good -- His take on the "free-your-mind" 70s comics like Green Latern/Green Arrow predated the History Channel's "Comic Book Superheroes" discussion of it by a couple of weeks, and his discussion of comic books vs. other media was thought-provoking (and not just b/c it linked to a Salon essay by Courtney Love that actually made her look intelligent!).

That said, I must say that I think this week's column would have been better suited as a response to a webboard post, than as a standalone column. If Mr. Moore could have gotten this out a week earlier, it would have been funnier (and more timely). This week, though, it just has me hoping for the next installment to show up sooner...

Then again, I'm a born-again comic book reader, so what the hell do I know?

Karate Media (http://www.karatemedia.com)

"Interrupting my train of thought/Lines of longitude and latitude"

beta-ray
07-02-2003, 12:06 AM
This one was totally lost on me... If it wasn't for the pic of Tyra Banks, I wouldn't have clicked on it ;)

Stuart Moore
07-02-2003, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by TemporalFlux
So in an article full of thinly veiled analogy, we were supposed to be able to pick out the one line that was magically serious.


No -- but readers of this board have an equally magical way of blowing things way out of proportion, so I thought I'd derail that train of thought before it got out of hand.

Best,
Stuart

Elayne Riggs
07-02-2003, 10:12 AM
Originally posted by Barry
I get what he's trying to do with this column but it just ain't workin'. Nice try tho...

I did find it a little "inside" this week, which I think is a bit of a departure for Stuart, whose columns have tended towards more mainstream accessibility (particularly the long examinations comparing comics with sf). But that may be because the only reality show I watch is The Osbournes, I find myself with a negative degree of interest in this model stuff.

- Elayne

Elayne Riggs
07-02-2003, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by willyd
Again, this column is valuable real estate that newsarama should be using for...I don't know...comics related reporting.

Why? It's an Op-Ed, it should bloody well be about whatever Stuart wants to talk about. You want comics-related reporting, go to the News section.

- Elayne

Arturo Bandini
07-02-2003, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by willyd
Again, this column is valuable real estate that newsarama should be using for...I don't know...comics related reporting. When was the last "Looking Back" feature, highlighting classic books and storylines? When was that last "Catching Up" feature, bringing us up to date on the latest and greatest?


I also wanted to comment on this in my previous post...

Willyd's comment would make more sense if this was a printed publication, where the "real estate" (or, "the crap that ain't ads" as they call it in newspapers) certainly is much more valuable.

Luckily, this is a website, and I'm certain that Stuart Moore's column isn't taking away "valuable space" from anything else that Newsarama would like to print.

Sure, you can argue that the disk space is ultimately "limited," but text takes up very little disk space. If Newsarama wanted to print "Looking Back" or "Catching Up," they have all the space in the world to do so. In fact, since you are a member of this board, you yourself could start posting a "column" of your own every week in the Talk@Newsarama forum (as could I, or anyone else, in theory).

You may have a beef with Editorial, but don't take it out on "A Thousand Flowers" -- I doubt Stuart's column is keeping them from printing your favorites.

Grendel Prime
07-02-2003, 12:20 PM
I don't get it.

TemporalFlux
07-02-2003, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Stuart Moore
No -- but readers of this board have an equally magical way of blowing things way out of proportion, so I thought I'd derail that train of thought before it got out of hand.

Best,
Stuart

Yes, Stuart - blame your poor writing on us. You fucked up - be a man and accept it. Stop trying to make it seem like it's our faults here. Personally I'm beginning to file this under "me thinks thou doth protest too much." I think we understood what you meant clearly the first time...you're just trying to desperately weasel out of it now (including the age old, popular tactic of blaming "over-reacting fans").

beta-ray
07-02-2003, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by Elayne Riggs
Why? It's an Op-Ed, it should bloody well be about whatever Stuart wants to talk about. You want comics-related reporting, go to the News section.

- Elayne

Perhaps... I guess people expect a certain amount of quality or understanable content. But that might be asking much.

Honestly though, it is sometimes difficult to tell OP/ED pieces at this website since they are sometimes liberally sprinkled in with the news.

TheWriteJerry
07-02-2003, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by TemporalFlux
Yes, Stuart - blame your poor writing on us. You fucked up - be a man and accept it. Stop trying to make it seem like it's our faults here. Personally I'm beginning to file this under "me thinks thou doth protest too much." I think we understood what you meant clearly the first time...you're just trying to desperately weasel out of it now (including the age old, popular tactic of blaming "over-reacting fans").

People! People! Some of you are jumping all over Stuart like he's really Bill Jemas in a columnist's suit. Give it a rest.

Stuart is a columnist... who writes a column you read for free. Even if as a columnist he owed you something -- which no columnist does, that's the nature of the beast -- he'd still owe you no more than the price of admission. Which is ZERO.

Of course, knowing Mr. Moore -- who remember made his reputation on books filled with layers of subtext like Swamp Thing and other Vertigo titles -- the whole point of this ditty of his was to draw out another fantrum and expose the people who bash everything regardless of it's quality or veracity or economic efficacy for what they are... namely, people who just don't see the forest for the trees.

Jerry

MattBrady
07-02-2003, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by beta-ray
Honestly though, it is sometimes difficult to tell OP/ED pieces at this website since they are sometimes liberally sprinkled in with the news.

Quick hint then - opinion/editorial pieces will be in the Op/ED section and will have the writer's views and opinions sprinkled in as well. News stories as well as features will be found in their respective sections.

If you're still having trouble figuring it out after that, I don't know what to tell ya.

MattB

Joe Kilmartin
07-02-2003, 04:52 PM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by MattBrady

<b>Girls, Girls, Girls!</b>



Dispite what some are saying, I think it worked just fine. If this ever gets collected on paper I recommend that you add the following bits

- how Fear Factor had to erase an entire half season because they were afraid the Scientologists would sue. And how online commentary said that they're only producing the show so that the network can keep their budget next year.

and

- TV Guide just won accolades of response online because one of their interns wrote a review saying all the models on ANTM looked "retarded" and it looked like they'd all had "boob jobs". She hadn't had much experience before doing that sort of thing, but since she knew the difference between Iman and Linda Evangelista, they figured it might be fun to give her the opportunity. As usual, online resonse was split down the middle between people who saw it as an indication that television doesn't understand its audience or that its too dependant on peopel who already watch reality shows and the people saying that the reviewer just doesn't "get" television.



I think it came pretty close to the mark, apart from that... ;)


Joe

Elayne Riggs
07-03-2003, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by beta-ray
Perhaps... I guess people expect a certain amount of quality or understanable content. But that might be asking much.

I don't think it's "asking [too] much," but I do think that it's a subjective call. I didn't think the professionalism or quality was necessarily lacking, although as I say I do think it was a bit "inside" compared to Stuart's other Thousand Flowers entries. I'd suggest you consider that your opinion of Stuart's writing, while perfectly valid, is not necessarily an objective fact, just your personal view.

- Elayne

beta-ray
07-03-2003, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by MattBrady
Quick hint then - opinion/editorial pieces will be in the Op/ED section and will have the writer's views and opinions sprinkled in as well. News stories as well as features will be found in their respective sections.

If you're still having trouble figuring it out after that, I don't know what to tell ya.

MattB

Well I am not sure what computer platform and web browser you are looking at, but when I go to newsarama.com all the articles are laid out next to one another (news and op/ed) and unless you know a particular piece is an editorial/opinion it is a bit hard to tell. Sure if you are only in the BB section it is easier.

Am I seeing things wrong? (yeah I use a Mac so how the web appears to me is different from 90% of the rest of the world)

beta-ray
07-03-2003, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by Elayne Riggs
I don't think it's "asking [too] much," but I do think that it's a subjective call. I didn't think the professionalism or quality was necessarily lacking, although as I say I do think it was a bit "inside" compared to Stuart's other Thousand Flowers entries. I'd suggest you consider that your opinion of Stuart's writing, while perfectly valid, is not necessarily an objective fact, just your personal view.

- Elayne

True enough Elayne... (I really am not all that appreciative in Stuart's writing altogether). Everything I write is subjective for the most part. However, it does seem that most people (who responded at least) just don't "get" his column this time around... Unless it was really meant to be confusing and esoteric, I think it isn't working... *shrug*

Shackmania
07-04-2003, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by TemporalFlux
Yes, Stuart - blame your poor writing on us. You fucked up - be a man and accept it. Stop trying to make it seem like it's our faults here. Personally I'm beginning to file this under "me thinks thou doth protest too much." I think we understood what you meant clearly the first time...you're just trying to desperately weasel out of it now (including the age old, popular tactic of blaming "over-reacting fans").

You don't consider your response above "over reacting"? I didn't find Mr. Moore nasty, but I find you very nasty. Tut Tut.

mc (_(\/)_)achete
07-07-2003, 04:04 AM
:D

http://www.geocities.com/mcmachete/elysewaid_MACHETE.jpg

If you can't see image, CLICK HERE. (http://www.geocities.com/mcmachete/waidtest.htm)

Alex Segura Jr.
07-07-2003, 04:36 PM
Originally posted by MattBrady
Yeah, that kind of weirded me out as well.

just when you think you know a guy...

MattB

Hey! It's an addictive show...uh, so I hear.

Alex