KINGPIN #1 [Archive]

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MattBrady

05-19-2003, 12:54 PM

Press Release

<blockquote>Here's a first look at a few pages from the new June-debuting ongoing series
KINGPIN, by the creative team of writer Bruce (INCREDIBLE HULK) Jones,
penciler Sean Phillips & inker Klaus Janson.

Described as "The SOPRANOS meets GODFATHER PART II Marvel-style", the series
follows the violent early life of Wilson Fisk - a.k.a. the one-day Kingpin
of Crime - a shrewd young man who built his New York City organized crime
empire the old-fashioned way, one dead body at a time.

Betrayal, gang-wars, and alliances are built and shattered in this first
glimpse at the Kingpin's rise to power. Plus: the first encounter of the
Kingpin and Spider-Man!

KINGPIN #1, with a cover by Esad Ribic and cover price of $2.50, goes on
sale 6/11 and retailers are reminded its Final Order Cut-off (FOC) date is
5/22. KINGPIN #2 goes on-sale 7/9 and has an FOC of 6/19.</blockquote>For more on Kingpin, click <a href="http://www.newsarama.com/Kingpin.htm" target="_blank"> here</a> for Newsarama’s interview with writer Bruce Jones, editor Axel Alonso, and inker Klaus Janson.

<center> <a href="http://www.newsarama.com/Marvel/KINGP001010.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/Marvel/KINGP001010_t.jpg" width="150" height="225" border="0" alt="Kingpin #1, page 10" hspace="2"></a><a href="http://www.newsarama.com/Marvel/KINGP001012.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/Marvel/KINGP001012_t.jpg" width="150" height="225" border="0" alt="Kingpin #1, page 12" hspace="2"></a><a href="http://www.newsarama.com/Marvel/KINGP001013.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/Marvel/KINGP001013_t.jpg" width="150" height="225" border="0" alt="Kingpin #1, page 13" hspace="2"></a><a href="http://www.newsarama.com/Marvel/KINGP001014.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/Marvel/KINGP001014_t.jpg" width="150" height="225" border="0" alt="Kingpin #1, page 14" hspace="2"></a></center>

cncoyle

05-19-2003, 01:53 PM

Okay, it's been ages since I've read a Daredevil story, but isn't the Kingpin much older than Spidey or DD? I thought he was just starting out around the time Peter Parker was in preschool, or even earlier.

ajrobles51

05-19-2003, 02:30 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by cncoyle:
Okay, it's been ages since I've read a Daredevil story, but isn't the Kingpin much older than Spidey or DD? I thought he was just starting out around the time Peter Parker was in preschool, or even earlier.<hr /></blockquote>I also thought the Kingpin was firmly entrenched as head of the underworld when Spiderman began his career, even though he doesn't first appear until ASM 50.

I don't get this.

IanZL

05-19-2003, 03:22 PM

I believe when this was first announced Marvel admitted to bending continuity a little to make this work.

Mr. Special ED

05-19-2003, 03:43 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by IanZL:
I believe when this was first announced Marvel admitted to bending continuity a little to make this work.<hr /></blockquote>So what's the point - other than to tell a good story.

I'll be the first pro-Continuity person to chime in here. This is billing the first encounter of SPIDEY/KINGPIN but as others have pointed out, KINGPIN is on the low totem pole here it looks like. Honestly - I dont like it. I'd rather they tell a KINGPIN story that delves into the mans history and takes a "little" liberty, than go back and rework the entire thing. It's just pointless; you get people coming back for more and more when they know action's will have consequence. What's the point of telling an out of continuity story where there's no consequence?

This sounds like a real "fan" complaint, but really - isn't that one of the bigger draws of comics; the "serialized"-connected nature of things, good storytelling aside?

Bill Robinson

05-19-2003, 04:29 PM

good storytelling aside?

Aside?

Let me be the first "non continuity" person to chime in.

This looks great. I can't wait to read it.
Storytelling is the only thing that matters to me.

Bill

theodoros

05-19-2003, 04:36 PM

I was sure that Kingpin was much older than Spiderman. And he still is!!

But this.. this is strange. It's like Red Skull going to the same school with Bucky!

And I was going to buy it...

Well, on the other comics..............

Dan20

05-19-2003, 04:56 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Bill Robinson:
Storytelling is the only thing that matters to me.
Bill<hr /></blockquote>Well, to me, good storytelling involves logic. And having Kingpin and Spider-Man suddenly being able to attend the same grade in school is just ridiculous. The Kingpin, by the time we see him in ASM #50, is an accomplished businessman and is what his name implies....a crime Kingpin. Spidey, meanwhile, is still a teen.
Even in current comics, Kingpin looks like a grizzled veteran compared to the (relative)youthfulness of Matt Murdock.
To have them all be the same age, out of nowhere, is just poor storytelling.

Will the series be good? Maybe, maybe not. But even if it is? It could have been just as good without Spider-Man in it, probably even better.

Cliffy

05-19-2003, 05:23 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Mr. Special ED:
So what's the point - other than to tell a good story.<hr /></blockquote>**Head explodes**

--Cliffy

Bill Robinson

05-19-2003, 06:06 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Will the series be good? Maybe, maybe not. But even if it is? It could have been just as good without Spider-Man in it, probably even better.<hr /></blockquote>You want to tie creators to 30 year old continuity. That's fine. Maybe they should have published this as an Ultimate.

All I'm saying is I don't give a rip about exact continuity. I will judge the series on its own merits, continuity aside.

Bill

jawaplumber

05-19-2003, 06:47 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Dan20:
[QUOTE] And having Kingpin and Spider-Man suddenly being able to attend the same grade in school is just ridiculous. The Kingpin, by the time we see him in ASM #50, is an accomplished businessman and is what his name implies....a crime Kingpin. Spidey, meanwhile, is still a teen.
Even in current comics, Kingpin looks like a grizzled veteran compared to the (relative)youthfulness of Matt Murdock.
To have them all be the same age, out of nowhere, is just poor storytelling.

Will the series be good? Maybe, maybe not. But even if it is? It could have been just as good without Spider-Man in it, probably even better.<hr /></blockquote>Umm, where does it suggest that they are the same age? They are closer in age than we might have originally gone along with, but I don't see where it looks like they would be THAT close. I look at it as if Spidey would be 18-20 to Kingpin's 22-24.

Personally, I'm with those who are saying "yay" to bending the continuity. I see super-hero stories as being ever adaptable to suit the changing times. To stunt them from being unable to do so is doing an injustice to their fullest potential. It's the same reason why I love the fact that Batman can work just as well as a serious character as he can a campy one, and get so annoyed when people say he should only be one or the other. Why deny the range and potential of the character? Why deny the creative range and potential of comics in general by making them fully adhere to basic groundwork laid almost forty years ago? As long as the heart of the story is still there, what does it matter? I mean, if we were to be THAT strict about it, then all artists should be drawing exactly like Steve Ditko (one of my all-time favorite artists, by the way) and the stories should be written exactly the way Stan would have. Anything else is completely betraying what came first, right? Right?

I think this is going to be a helluva read. And I'll buy ANYTHING Sean Phillips works on. He's been one of my favorite aritsts since his Hellblazer days.

Morlun

05-19-2003, 07:57 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by jawaplumber:
Umm, where does it suggest that they are the same age? They are closer in age than we might have originally gone along with, but I don't see where it looks like they would be THAT close. I look at it as if Spidey would be 18-20 to Kingpin's 22-24.<hr /></blockquote>Hmm... And Richard Fisk's what, 10? :D

Anyway, Spidey first met the Kingpin in ASM #50 around his 17. If this doesn't add up to the Spider-Man mythos, and instead contradicts it, then I'm not getting it.

It can be a stellar comic, but it would make as much sense to me as a stellar "Star Wars: Episode 3" where Obi-Wan Kenobi became Darth Vader and Yoda was killed.

Oh, and the Kingpin first rose to power when Peter was 13, in the Flashback ASM -1 issue, by killing the former ruler of the underworld, Don Rigoletto.

Dan20

05-19-2003, 09:34 PM

I'm not opposed to bending continuity for the sake of a good story either. But I don't see why Spider-Man's involvement will make this a better story.
In fact, I think it would be better to see Kingpin's origins without the super-heroics of Spider-Man involved.

Face it, in Amazing Spider-Man #50, and onwards, Spidey was a teen or a young adult. Are we to believe that in all those issues, Fisk was only one or two years older? And he was married to the older Vanessa Fisk? Had a young adult son? Was already the Kingpin of crime in all of New York and had billions of dollars and holdings in the States and overseas? Come on. This isn't bending continuity, it's cracking it over someone's knee for the sole purpose of having Spider-Man show up and shoot some webs.

BuckySinister

05-19-2003, 10:45 PM

I think the artwork here is a bit misleading. From what I remember of Bruce Jones' comments on the story, the ages should work out okay. This is supposed to be set in the earliest days of Spider-Man's career, which would make him 15 or 16. And I think Jones said that Fisk starts the story off already established to a certain degree, which would indicate that he's probably in his 30s here.

Why Phillips and Janson chose to make Spidey look pretty much like he would in the present, while the Kingpin looks like a fresh-faced lad, is beyond me. I usually like Phillips' work, but this stuff looks rushed. Maybe it's just Janson's inks; he doesn't mesh well with everyone.

The Richard Fisk thing is a bit more problematic, though; he was portrayed as being in his mid-20s in the early Kingpin stories.

littlewolvie

05-20-2003, 04:19 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by IanZL:
I believe when this was first announced Marvel admitted to bending continuity a little to make this work.<hr /></blockquote>No... really? There's something new. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

AllAboutMe

05-20-2003, 07:50 AM

Maybe it is just the fact that the Phillips-Janson art team is worse together than they are separately that makes this book something to pass up.
Maybe the Kingpin had a rough life and just seems older than Spidy now. Maybe he looks remarkably young for his age in this series. Maybe "bending" continuity is the new trend for Marvel? That'd be swell. Then Truth would make sense.

Mike Cruz

05-20-2003, 02:49 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by cncoyle:
Okay, it's been ages since I've read a Daredevil story, but isn't the Kingpin much older than Spidey or DD? I thought he was just starting out around the time Peter Parker was in preschool, or even earlier.<hr /></blockquote>Oh! Spider-Man's involved? Then this Kingpin must be a clone!

Rubber Sled

05-23-2003, 04:08 PM

In the "Daredevil: Man Without Fear" mini-series, Kingpin was starting his rise to power at the same time Matt Murdock was a college aged young man, which could take place right before Spider-Man first appeared...