Superman/Batman #19

[Cyphon]

Ok, first review, lets see how this goes.

Superman/Batman #19
Writer: Jeph Loeb
Artist: Ian Churchill

I'm a fan of team and team-up books. I really like this title. I don't collect any of the solo Superman or Batman titles. But after the earlier Supergirl story arc, and especially this issue, I'm seriously considering adding the Supergirl title to my pull list.

This issue continues the theme of Supergirl developing her powers, Batman watching carefully, and Superman acting like the repressing older brother who just doesn't know better. It's a fun dynamic played out both verbally and internally. And we see that Kara has incredible powers, but without the years of refinement that Superman has experienced. She's raw and that makes her a touch dangerous. And needless to say, she's not happy that Superman and Batman are still keeping an eye her.

When Supergirl finally ditches Superman, she heads out on a solo(ish) adventure, a quick run-in with some members of Batman's rogues gallery. Good brief action, nice characterization and we see that Supergirl is not as green as we might have thought.

Parallelling the main plot is a secondary story thread between Calculator and a mysterious contact. They too are tracking Supergirl's exploits, though its safe to say that their reasons for keeping an eye on Supergirl are a tad more nefarious than Superman and Batman.

This pays off with a satisfying, though not entirely surprising revelation on the final page that gives us an idea what the early parts of Supergirl's title might play out as. Loeb has left alot of questions about Supergirl unanswered and tantalizing, and placed her in a situation where everyone is watching her closely, but for varying reasons.

Art wise, I thought Churchill did a good job, with a style similar to Turner's that maintained the same visual feel that the Supergirl arc of issues 8-13 had. The inks weren't overwhelming and the colours were bright and vibrant, as I've come to expect from this title.

Grade: A-/B+

Its an entertaining story, good artwork, and it really piques my interest about a title I would have otherwise ignored.

Since this is my first review on this site, I'd appreciate any constructive criticism!

[chbryan]

I enjoyed your review -- welcome to the fun and exciting world of online comic critiques! Advice: Never, ever, give a crap about opinions that conflict with your own. Other people will have different takes on story and art concepts, but as long you're being fair, don't feel obligated to agree with other points of view. Own it!

I feel like Paula Abdul today. Maybe I'll send a cease and desist letter to ABC, too.

For me, the issue was good -- not great, but good. As with this week's Batman, I find myself more interested in the ties to the Big Event than to the presented main story.

I liked Churchill's rendition better than turner's actually -- still sort of waif-like (or anorexic, if one prefers), but not extremely so.

The intriguing aspect of this Supergirl is that of her power compared to Superman's. However, that may be the only interesting aspect of Supergirl III (IV if you count Power Girl).

As always with this title, the alternating thought captions for Bats and Supes are fun.

I'd tend to grade it more in the low B range.

[NC-17]

Good story. I like how they hint that she might be more powerful then Superman. Then again she was bombarded with yellow sunlight 24/7 all that time she was in the spaceshaip for however many years.

Nice to see how they are tying this into the big picture. I still wanna know how she knew Calculator was onto her as well since she knew Batman was watching her.

[aceatkins]

Excellent review. Seriously, very well-written and thought-out. I am going to be one of those guys that disagrees with you, though. Everyone's a critic!

I deliberated whether to even pick this issue up. It had several strikes against it. First, I hated the initial Supergirl arc in this book. I thought it failed on just about every level, with a boring, confusing story, sloppy art and (to me) an uninteresting central character in the new Kara. The fact that it constantly came out late didn't help. The other strike against it was Ian Churchill, whose art I find increasingly unpalatable.

But I did buy it. The good news: Churchill's artwork really wasn't as bad as I feared. In some parts it was even downright pleasant (and in some parts, he completely aped Jim Lee panel for panel...sheesh). And the story wasn't bad overall. The bad news: Still hate Kara, there were rather goofy moments, and the last-page "reveal" was so obvious from page 1 that it was nearly insulting.

I'm trying to figure out exactly why I dislike Kara so much. Maybe it's because I dearly loved Peter David's Supergirl series, and even the character of Matrix before that. I even loved the Kara he brought in at the very end of "Many Happy Returns" right before the book was so unceremoniously dumped so we could have the abomination that was Cir-El in Seagle's ill-conceived Superman run.

But, no--I dislike this Kara because she's a self-entitled brat. Ever since she's been introduced she's basically been saying "I want it my way or no way." Why WOULDN'T Supes and Bats be checking up on her? She's a person with immense power and little training, and she thinks she can just fly around and do what she pleases? And then snot and sulk when she's called on it? I recognize that this makes her a fairly typical teenager. And my response to that is the same I had to Harry Potter in the last book in his series: Typical teenagers do not make for interesting characters; they make for characters I want to throttle.

The most interesting part of this issue to me came from the suggestion that Kara is more powerful than Supes. And I think someone else mentioned that it's probably due to her being exposed to so much solar energy for so long, and also perhaps because she was sent here as an adult (almost) rather than a baby. That's an interesting wrinkle, but also a problematic one as one of Superman's big problems is that it's tough to write realistically threatening foes for him given that he can pretty much do anything. And now here's a character even more powerful than him. The other interesting insinuation here is that Kara is in fact not from Krypton (she was unaffected by the synthetic Kryptonite), and that her origins remain a mystery. Now that I like, because I think her actually being Kara from Krypton is somewhat dilutive of Supes himself--which was the exact reason Crisis wiped out all the ancillory S-characters to begin with. And look at that: They're all here again. Funny that.

The bit with Batgirl was silly to me. If she knew that that wasn't actually Batgirl, why play along? There's no logic behind that other than "It moved the plot along." Also, the average reader sure as hell knew it wasn't really Barb, so...I dunno. Kind of goofy. And I can't believe Clayface--working for The Calculator, for pity's sake, who seems to know EVERYTHING about every hero--would actually make such a boneheaded move. Anyway, I'm nitpicking here.

The last-page reveal...how manay times will Jeph Loeb end a story in this book with Lex Luthor shaking his hand to the heavens vowing revenge? It's getting rather tedious, and Lex is once again becoming a parody of himself.

Overall, not as bad as I feared, but not as good as I think this book can be. And I almost certainly will not be picking up the new Supergirl book.

[Ben Strasser]

I'm afraid I also come down on the side of being disappointed with this issue. I loved the Turner arc, but this book is really feeling like way too much of a Superman comic that happens to have Bats guesting. The whole villain impersonating Barbara thing was only interesting from the angle of Churchill drawing a good Batgirl/Barbara (even though I still much prefer current BG, Cassandra Cain).

I don't personally plan on picking up the Supergirl regular book either, but I would like to know what her limits are. Not only does she have Superman's powers, but she's also able to somehow perceive anyone watching her?! What, does she have super spider sense too?

On the art side, Ian Churchill did a nice job in places, but some moments didn't quite work for me anyway. The massive bat throne style chair in the cave was too much, but Batman himself looked great in Jim Lee style but with a bigger bat symbol on the chest. I didn't really care for Churchill's Ivy and was overall pretty disappointed with a lame appearance for her and Harley.

Back to the story, wow Kara can forget about getting on Bruce's good side by just patroling Gotham like she has the right. I know she was upset with being monitored, but that's what rookies go through.

I give this issue a C to borderline D rating. I have a complete run of this title, but it's been inching close to dropable for a while. Hopefully, the next arc turns things around, because I've enjoyed a lot of Loeb comics in the past and want to keep reading his take on Batman.

[Khany]

I'll also have to diasagree. I liked the art, the art was good, though it seems supergirls skirt is unconventional for crimefighting (come onnn), but this I don't mind. The storyline structure was very standard, formulaic and I'm sure the plot twist at the end wasn't there to fool anyone (at least I hope not). Though the whole Supergirl isn't effected by Kryptonite kinda reminds me of that Superman Adventures (my only source to Supergirl) issue where I found out that cause she is from planet Argo she's slightly different from Kryptonians. I dunno, there might be plot twist as the Supergirl stories've been implying, but I'd still prefer a better structure, grrr.

Art is great
Story is bad

[NYCEvolution]

This did make me like Supergirl a little. I looked at her like some helpless bimbo that Clark had an unhealthy obsession with. The idea that she may be stronger than Superman IS very intresting - just hope they do something with it.

The fact that villians are worried about her is ALSO very cool. And, again, I hope they do something with this.

[Khany]

I'd say he still has an unhealthy obsession just watching her while she does all the work. Though I'm worried about Batman being kinda hostile to her like she's some kind of homewrecker.

[aceatkins]

Originally posted by Khany
I'd say he still has an unhealthy obsession just watching her while she does all the work. Though I'm worried about Batman being kinda hostile to her like she's some kind of homewrecker.

Batman's hostile to EVERYBODY. Check out the newest Batman to see him shit on Green Arrow, Zatanna and Onyx in 20 short pages. Astounding! I realize he has reason to distrust Zee and GA because of the whole brain-wipe thing, but if I had to work with that asshole, I'd screw with his mind too.

God, I hate his character so much right now.

Regarding Supes' unhealthy obsession with Kara--right on. It's downright creepy, and Loeb should watch it.

[Khany]

Originally posted by aceatkins
Batman's hostile to EVERYBODY. Check out the newest Batman to see him shit on Green Arrow, Zatanna and Onyx in 20 short pages. Astounding! I realize he has reason to distrust Zee and GA because of the whole brain-wipe thing, but if I had to work with that asshole, I'd screw with his mind too.

God, I hate his character so much right now.

Regarding Supes' unhealthy obsession with Kara--right on. It's downright creepy, and Loeb should watch it.

Hmmm he seems pretty nyce to Batgirl though, keeps helping her out with residences and equipment, always friendly, lets her off with murder... in fact the only time I saw him hostile with Batgirl was when she tried to date Superboy, hmmmmmm.

[Jeffreak]

I thought this was one of the better Superman/Batman issues, although it is essentially Supergirl #0. The art's pretty solid; I always liked Ian Churchill's rendition of Superman, ever since he did the issue where Superman met a psychiatrist (but does Batman really have a chair shaped like a bat? What does that say about him?). You get the feeling that Kara isn't quite who she says she is (whether she is aware of this or not), and I like the idea that she might be more powerful than Superman, though the raging fanboys at the DC Message Boards aren't too pleased with this revelation.

The Batgirl cameo irked me a little. Sure, it's nice to see the old Batgirl, but it doesn't make any sense. Of ALL the guises Clayface can choose, why choose a RETIRED HERO WHO HASN'T WORN THE CAPE SINCE THE 1980s (when Killing Joke came out; I understand comic book timeline works differently but come ON)? It seems to me that Jeph Loeb simply wants to indulge himself a little here, which I can actually understand, but not at the expense of logic, even a minor one.

[md62]

Review # 1 by me - I liked this issue. It had cool fanboy moments in it. It setup a new series coming in Aug. - it made me want to get the new series. The art was OK.

Review #2 by my 10 yr old daughter (who happens to be named after Kara) loved it. She can't wait until the Supergirl series starts. Her only criticism - Supergirl looks too thin & too much of her stomach shows.

[paulski]

Originally posted by Cyphon
Ok, first review, lets see how this goes...

Since this is my first review on this site, I'd appreciate any constructive criticism!

You don't need any. That's one of the best reviews of a comic I've read. Clear and concise, with just the right mix of plot reveals and opinion. Well done.

And my opinion of the issue? Nowhere near as bad as I thought it would be. Hell, Churchill's artwork was not only quite capable but even, gasp, attractive at times. So much so that now I'm considering picking up the regular Supergirl series in August, a thought I wasn't entertaining before I read this issue (fuck it! :mad: ) .

The story? Well, typical Loeb - full of plot holes and bordering on disaster but this one pretty much worked for a change. And it was nice to see the original Batgirl again. Kind of.

And, sue me, I enjoyed Kara's first kiss. But what would you expect from me. ;)

Writing: B
Artwork: B
Coloring: C+

[Amoebas]

While better than the first Supergirl arc (which is only because Turner is not doing the art) I have to agree with those that simply don't like this Supergirl.

She is a brat. And the world's most powerful one at that. While that may make an intersting story I just don't see that being endearing to an ongoing series.

Loeb writes her way to hip for my tastes. "FYI", "Can you say 'rude'?", "Oh Shut up.", "Back Off" etc. It would be one thing to have her speak this way IF she resided at the Titans Tower, but she lives on Paradise Island, and I've never seen/heard the Amazon's speak this way.

Anyway - it'll be nice for this book to get back to Superman and Batman now that she's done here.


POSSIBLE SPOILER....


On that last note - with all the rumours and speculation of the Big 3 having a major falling out in the near future - does that spell the end of this book? I know that the narrative Loeb does sets part of the tone here, but thier dialogue set's the other side. If these two end up never speaking to each other - then that just wouldn't be a good thing imo for a continuing series.

[Amoebas]

Originally posted by chbryan
The intriguing aspect of this Supergirl is that of her power compared to Superman's. However, that may be the only interesting aspect of Supergirl III (IV if you count Power Girl).

I think your count is off. Here's some Supergirl's that preceded this new one (and this list is NOT complete (I'm not even going to try and recall the Elseworld's versions))...

Lucy Regent is Supergirl in Superboy #5 (1949)
Lois Lane is the Girl of Steel in Action 156 (1951)
Supergirl in Superman #123 (1958) - picture attached
Kara Zor-El is Supergirl in Action 252 (1959) - and is until til 1985/6)
Karen Star is Power Girl in All Star #58 (1976)
Helen Slater is Supergirl (1984) - movie
Matrix/Linda Danvers is Supergirl in Superman 21 (1988 and is until recently)
Kara is Supergirl (1998) - SMan Adventures, JL Unlimited
Kara is Supergrrrl in Superboy 60 (1999) - hypertime
Kara is Supergirl in Supergirl #75 (2003)
Cir-El is Supergirl in the S-books (2003)

[COREMARK]

I liked this issue much more than I expected although the reveal at the end was very obvious. I thought Churchill did a great job with the art, his rendition of Batman was awesome. I'm really beginning to warm up to this new Supergirl, and I think I'm going to give her new series a shot when it debuts.

Book Grade: B+

[HIPHOPJUNKIE]

Originally posted by Amoebas



POSSIBLE SPOILER....


On that last note - with all the rumours and speculation of the Big 3 having a major falling out in the near future - does that spell the end of this book? I know that the narrative Loeb does sets part of the tone here, but thier dialogue set's the other side. If these two end up never speaking to each other - then that just wouldn't be a good thing imo for a continuing series. [/B]

I think Bats and Supes are going to be the only two that stick together.

Wonder Woman?! She going to take matters into her own hands and start massacering foes.

She is also going to drag the Amazons into the conflict.


Themiscrya will be the Saudi Arabia of DC. Khandaq is the Iraq.


Also, if you aren't reading Wonder Woman you should be!

[NC-17]

Originally posted by Khany
Hmmm he seems pretty nyce to Batgirl though, keeps helping her out with residences and equipment, always friendly, lets her off with murder... in fact the only time I saw him hostile with Batgirl was when she tried to date Superboy, hmmmmmm.

Batgirl can mess him up if he got hostile towards her. I wouldn't mind seeing that though, that would be a good story.

Originally posted by NYCEvolution
The fact that villians are worried about her is ALSO very cool. And, again, I hope they do something with this.

I think Luthor was the only one who wasn't worried out of them. But it should be good to see how they deal with her.

[HIPHOPJUNKIE]

This ish rocked. It is my favorite of the series so far and I'll definitely be copping the new Supergirl series this summer.

What more can I say?

And that last page....OH SNAP!

[chbryan]

Originally posted by Amoebas
I think your count is off. Here's some Supergirl's that preceded this new one (and this list is NOT complete (I'm not even going to try and recall the Elseworld's versions))...

Lucy Regent is Supergirl in Superboy #5 (1949)
Lois Lane is the Girl of Steel in Action 156 (1951)
Supergirl in Superman #123 (1958) - picture attached
Kara Zor-El is Supergirl in Action 252 (1959) - and is until til 1985/6)
Karen Star is Power Girl in All Star #58 (1976)
Helen Slater is Supergirl (1984) - movie
Matrix/Linda Danvers is Supergirl in Superman 21 (1988 and is until recently)
Kara is Supergirl (1998) - SMan Adventures, JL Unlimited
Kara is Supergrrrl in Superboy 60 (1999) - hypertime
Kara is Supergirl in Supergirl #75 (2003)
Cir-El is Supergirl in the S-books (2003)

Mein Gott. All of these Supergirls, and yet no chance of return for Giant Turtle Olsen.

Life is too cruel.

[snipe]

Originally posted by Amoebas
On that last note - with all the rumours and speculation of the Big 3 having a major falling out in the near future - does that spell the end of this book? I know that the narrative Loeb does sets part of the tone here, but thier dialogue set's the other side. If these two end up never speaking to each other - then that just wouldn't be a good thing imo for a continuing series.

At one point it was stated Loeb was finished with 25 issues. That would put the end of his run in about 6 months. The new crisis is supposed to be hitting then, too.

The plot thickens...

[Spidercide]

Originally posted by aceatkins
The other interesting insinuation here is that Kara is in fact not from Krypton (she was unaffected by the synthetic Kryptonite), and that her origins remain a mystery.

I was wondering about the synthetic K having no effect on Supergirl as well. I'm reminded of Kingdom Come Superman and his apparent invulnerability to Kryptonite after many years of exposure to yellow sunlight. Maybe the supposed reason behind Supergirl’s heightened power level/additional abilities also renders Kryptonite useless against her?

[HartyPotter]

I was underwhelmed. Probably my least favorite issue of the run so far. The art's slightly better than I was expecting though. Overall, I'd give it a B.