RED SONJA #0 BREAKS 200K CEILING

[MattBrady]

<a href="http://www.newsarama.com/Dynamite/Sonja/Red_Sonja_Land_cov.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/Dynamite/Sonja/Red_Sonja_Land_cov_t.jpg" width="175" height="269" border="0" align="right"></a> It’s been a long time since a woman has broken through any ceiling in comics, but Newsarama has learned that Dynamite Entertainment’s <b>Red Sonja #0</b>, the April-shipping re-introduction of the character to comics priced at $0.25 has seen initial orders over 205,000 copies. Newsarama has confirmed the number with both Dynamite and an independent source.

The issue, co-written by Mike Carey and Mike Oeming (http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27064), and illustrated by Mel Rubi (http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27654), with colors by Richard Isanove and Caesar Rodriguez (http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28598) will mark the first time in six years that the character has appeared in comics.

Coincidentally, Red Sonja’s Robert E. Howard contemporary, <b>Conan</b> also launched with a $0.25 issue, which saw initial orders of slightly under 100,000 copies. Most recently, Top Cow launched <b>Hunter-Killer</b> is a $0.25 #0 issue which also saw initial orders of under 100,000.

Reportedly, the number of copies of <b>Red Sonja #0</b> in initial orders are larger than the number of copies of any individual issue of Free Comics Book Day comics ordered by retailers from the Gold Sponsors for the early May event.

While the issue will see the highest initial orders of a non-Marvel, non-DC comic in over ten years, Diamond calculates $0.25 issues as promotional items, and does not rank them on the monthly charts, so therefore, <b>Red Sonja #0</b> will not appear on Diamond’s Top 300 listing even though, as sources have reported to Newsarama, it would easily be the #1 selling book, based on orders received.

Dynamite will ship two covers of the #0 issue, with a black background, and with a white, in a 50/50 ratio.

[Tinnitus Tim]

Great news.
Let's hope people will get hooked and will come back for the next issues.

:)

[tridon]

Wow! Congrats to the Dynamite and the creative team on this one! It's too bad though it won't be counted in the Top 300. This is what She-Hulk needs when it returns. A 25-cent issue would help that book a lot.

[Nebula]

Cool...this looks like it's gonna be good

[Derek Ruiz]

Meh...Lets see issue one sell this many. Then I will give it some praise...

[Dreighton]

I understand that the average comic in america sells for $2.99 a pop, and thus 25c is practically giving it away. But I think it goes to highlight a huge problem with comics today. We fans want to try stuff, and we want to read comics, however, at $3 bucks we just don't.

I realize we can't see 25c comics ever again. But if comics were to price themselves with normal inflation of where they were 30 years ago we would be around $1 per comic. And at a buck I don't think anyone would be talking about the death of the comics industry or how do we reach kids with comics.

Dreighton

[Arnout]

I'm really happy to read this.
Naturally, the actual issue one won't do quite as much, but even if they manage to land in between 50 & 70 000, I'd say the issue was a success.
After all, the 0 issue for Conan dragged in a lot of customers who otherwise would have passed completely or waited for the trade.

On a related note, what about the Crossplains mini #2&3? This is the 6 year gap the article is referring to, I think, and I'd like to see that finished. Steve Lightle's art on that first issue was amazing. I believe he did pencils/inks/color, though I'm a bit hazy on the subject. Seeing as Dynamite has the rights to RS, is there a reason not to (besides waiting for sales figures, much as was done for Conan)?

[OcCaM]

Originally posted by Dreighton
I understand that the average comic in america sells for $2.99 a pop, and thus 25c is practically giving it away. But I think it goes to highlight a huge problem with comics today. We fans want to try stuff, and we want to read comics, however, at $3 bucks we just don't.

I realize we can't see 25c comics ever again. But if comics were to price themselves with normal inflation of where they were 30 years ago we would be around $1 per comic. And at a buck I don't think anyone would be talking about the death of the comics industry or how do we reach kids with comics.

Dreighton

Ummm based on candy bars, homes and practically everything else, the research I come up with is around $2ish for a ocmic.

Nice belief though. Esp. since they were a buck over a decade ago. Sigh, some kids just refuse to do their homework!

Still, i wish they were still $0.20, as when I started buying these things. (Then again, I could only afford about 5 comics a week on my allowance then. I'd much rather be buying 3-4 trades a week PLUS a few comics as I do now! :) )

[Spiderguy]

Nice things to read it seems...] :p

[Greg T]

That's great! Let's just hope they can maintain readership like Conan has done. With the creative team involved, I don't think that'll be a problem.

[Carlos Javier]

Originally posted by OcCaM
Ummm based on candy bars, homes and practically everything else, the research I come up with is around $2ish for a ocmic.

Nice belief though. Esp. since they were a buck over a decade ago. Sigh, some kids just refuse to do their homework!

Still, i wish they were still $0.20, as when I started buying these things. (Then again, I could only afford about 5 comics a week on my allowance then. I'd much rather be buying 3-4 trades a week PLUS a few comics as I do now! :) )

I'm not disagreeing with anything you say, but are you basing your figures on inflation over the last 30 years (like the guy before), or 10? Because you get two different numbers depending on which.

As for Red Sonja's success, I'm happy. Maybe a lot more publishers will try 25 cent promotionals.

[Crusader]

Never underestmate a sexy redhead. Congrats, guys!

[Raphe Cheli]

People seem to miss a lot of factors when comparing prices from 10, 20, 30 or 60 years ago when dealing with comics (and how they feel that $2.25-$3.00 is too much), and the big one seems to be what's actually inside the comic.

Well, in 1938, it cost 10 cents for 64 pages and no ads. Through the following 23 years, it still remained 10 cents, but the page count went from 64 to 56 to 52 to 48 to 40 to 32, and the ads pages increased, so by the time 1961 rolled around, you were getting 21 pages of story for 10 cents (that's 1/3 the new material of '38 for the price).

Then, the price slowly began to creep up (15, 20, 25, 30, 35, 40, 50, 60, 65 [remember those from Marvel?], etc.), with varying number of pages (don't forget the half-pages that frequented DC and Marvel comics in the 60s and early 70s). In fact, in the early 70s, you got 17 pages of story/art in each 32-page comic.

Now, we're up to 23 (33% more) pages of story/art per issue, as much as it's been in 30 years.

[Alfonso]

Now don't get me wrong, I applaud the creators of Red Sonja for this accomplishment, but I don't remember ever hearing the numbers for all the cheaper Marvel and DC books when they came out, and I feel that a comparison is necessary. If this is the highest non-DC non-Marvel selling book in a decade, but if it's 25 cents, how well did the Batman: War Games 12 cent issue sell last year? How well did Namor #1, Uncanny #423, Daredevil #41, and Hulk #55 sell in 2003? How about that 50 cent Chuck Austen Avengers debut issue?

These issues are always left off the final sales list based on their special cover price, but I don't remember ever reading about the actual numbers they sold. A little help?

[dollman]

Originally posted by Dreighton

I realize we can't see 25c comics ever again. But if comics were to price themselves with normal inflation of where they were 30 years ago we would be around $1 per comic. And at a buck I don't think anyone would be talking about the death of the comics industry or how do we reach kids with comics.

Dreighton

How do you figure at normal inflation, comics should be at $1.00? I'm no apologist for the comic publishers, but when you consider comics have jumped from $0.35 cents when I first started collecting in the mid 1970s, to about $3.00 today, thats like 9-cents per year in last 30 years.

Compare that to a price of a first run movie ticket, which has doubled in the last decade. Factor in the better paper, which allows for better colors, I think comics are still reasonably priced.

I'd love to go back to the days when comics where $1.00 or less. But I really love the new paper and colors available to the medium.

[palefire]

Just using standard inflation averages per decade (that would be 11.55% per year for the 70's, 4.82% per year for the 80's, 2.21% per year for the 90's, and 1.57% per year for the current one - the numbers come from inflationdata.com) we get a progression that looks like this (using the 25 cent price of adventures of Superman in March of '75 as a base).

'75 - $0.25
'76 - $0.279
'77 - $0.311
'78 - $0.347
'79 - $0.387
'80 - $0.406
'81 - $0.425
etc. until we get to now
'05 - $0.808

That would be 81 cents per comic if all were equal and comics had followed average inflation. Now - all things are not equal, but, neither have comics even come close to following average inflation.

There are plenty of arguements as to why comics have had such accelerated inflation - such as 33% more story. One could counter that by noting that $2.99 is not 33% more than 81 cents - $1.08 is.

Personally - I think comics have inflated in price so quickly because readership has fallen off. The quick fix for decreasing profits caused by a decreasing client base is to raise prices on those clients that stay loyal. It's a terrible long term solutioin - now the comic industry really is stuck in a place where comics don't represent a value in terms of entertainment dollars spent to many and there client base isn't growing because of that.

[Raphe Cheli]

Originally posted by palefire

There are plenty of arguements as to why comics have had such accelerated inflation - such as 33% more story. One could counter that by noting that $2.99 is not 33% more than 81 cents - $1.08 is.


I'd like to know what entertainment product has gone on the same sliding inflation scale. CDs? Movie tickets?


Personally - I think comics have inflated in price so quickly because readership has fallen off. The quick fix for decreasing profits caused by a decreasing client base is to raise prices on those clients that stay loyal. It's a terrible long term solutioin - now the comic industry really is stuck in a place where comics don't represent a value in terms of entertainment dollars spent to many and there client base isn't growing because of that.

Salaries for writers/penciller/inkers, etc., have also increased at a much higher rate than that of inflation. I wouldn't be surpirsed to find out that the average page rate for a comic book creator has gone up 500% in the past 25 years, if not more.

[palefire]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Raphe Cheli
[B]I'd like to know what entertainment product has gone on the same sliding inflation scale. CDs? Movie tickets?


Well - CD's were not arround in 1975 so that can not be tracked over the same time period. Movies on the other hand were. According to boxofficemojo.com the average price of a ticket in 1975 was $2.05 while the average price today is $6.25 (these are nationwide averages). That represents an increase of 304.8%. At the same times - comics have jumped from $0.25 to $2.99, representing a 1196% increase. Even if comics only cost $0.81 that would still represent an increase of 324%, which would still be higher than the increase in the average movie ticket over the same time period.

Unlike the movie business - comics have not found ways to mitagate the increase in entertainment saleries (i.e. page rates and movie contracts). The movies industry has been able to deal with a striking rise in the cost of actors in ways other than sticking it to their client base. Because of mismanagement within the comic industry - they have essential been left with the choice of biting the hand that feeds them or rolling over and dieing.

[spyflip]

I agree that with less customers prices have to go up, so what can we do? Well, I think we as a community need to stop talking shit to each other and start a grassroot effort to keep our hobby alive. Why can't DC and Marvel start investing in commercials or start a school or library program where they give books away like Crossgen tried. Comics fan need to start building shops that are friendly looking rather than a dungeon. Oganization that try to promote their love for a certain character shouldn't exist with fanitcs in them that scare or threaten people, instead why can't they just promote their love for a character in a positive way?

I think also that professionalism should come back to companies, and trades should be put on hold for a while. Either way the future is in our hands, am tried of people judging our hobby as kiddie and thinking that all comic fans are geeky, fat, living with mommy, and losers. But, it's all our fault. So I say a grassroot effort to help promote comics and spread our message in all form of media. Any ideas?

[adwomack]

Originally posted by palefire
Just using standard inflation averages per decade (that would be 11.55% per year for the 70's, 4.82% per year for the 80's, 2.21% per year for the 90's, and 1.57% per year for the current one - the numbers come from inflationdata.com) we get a progression that looks like this (using the 25 cent price of adventures of Superman in March of '75 as a base).

'75 - $0.25
'76 - $0.279
'77 - $0.311
'78 - $0.347
'79 - $0.387
'80 - $0.406
'81 - $0.425
etc. until we get to now
'05 - $0.808

That would be 81 cents per comic if all were equal and comics had followed average inflation. Now - all things are not equal, but, neither have comics even come close to following average inflation.

There are plenty of arguements as to why comics have had such accelerated inflation - such as 33% more story. One could counter that by noting that $2.99 is not 33% more than 81 cents - $1.08 is.

Personally - I think comics have inflated in price so quickly because readership has fallen off. The quick fix for decreasing profits caused by a decreasing client base is to raise prices on those clients that stay loyal. It's a terrible long term solutioin - now the comic industry really is stuck in a place where comics don't represent a value in terms of entertainment dollars spent to many and there client base isn't growing because of that.


Many other things should be considered besides the standard inflation rate when making this comparision. This must include the cost of printing, the employment inflation of the writer, penciller, inker, etc, advertising revenue, and so on. I don't think we could make a fair comparison with all those factors to consider.

I would hope that if the market expands(wishful thinking), that prices can stay the same, and not continue upward, but I do not expect a price decrease any time soon.

[Erik K]

Actually, a quarter in 1975 money is .82 in 2001 money:

http://www.csgnetwork.com/cpicalc.html

Considering the cost of comics has risen at greater than 3 times the rate of inflation, that's pretty expensive. Better paper, higher printing costs, higher salaries all factor in, of course. I wish I knew what a paperback novel cost in '75 for comparison. Of course, paperbacks have gone through the same process, becoming larger with better paper and higher production values.

All I know is that I've switched to trades, because you get higher value for your purchase, especially if you count extras, paper quality and binding and the lack of ads.

[Bakema NL]

Sounds great, but this could be expected for a comic of 25 cts. But 200 000+ is still great exposure, if only half of these people stick around for the issues after this it will be one of the best-selling comics around maybe. I wonder what those first issues of Alias did with the 75 cts. cover price.

[classicist]

Comic prices have risen faster than inflation, but not by as much as some people think. Consumer Price Index calculations, which take the average of all products and services into account, show that 10 1938 cents bought about $1.30 worth of 2003 goods and services; 10 1961 cents bought about 62 cents of 2003 goods and services. Using these numbers would peg the inflation rate among comics at about twice that of other goods and services (using 1938 figures) or about 4.5 times that of other goods and services (using 1961 figures). Howeverm these figures are misleading; as other posters have pointed out, it would be foolish to include comic books in the same category as bananas and whole milk. Rather, we should put them in the same category as other printed goods - the biggest cause of the inflation in comic book prices in the last ten years is the increase in the cost of newsprint in the early 1990s. Not because comics today use newsprint - though the price of all paper has gone through the roof - but because the lack of cheap newsprint led companies to switch to better paper that was, as of the mid 90s, only marginally more expensive (not that I'm complaining - I remember how excited I used to get about Baxter paper books from DC). So, we would be better off comparing comic books to other printed goods that have undergone similar quality transformations over the period in question - let's use 1961 to 2003, as 1961 comics had a similar amount of new content, and 2003 is the most recent year for which CPI data is finalized from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Over that same period, we can track changes in newspaper prices and mass-market magazines. Both have had to deal with the rapid increase in paper costs, and have substantially increased the amount of advertisements at the cost of content. The comparison works nicely because of the similar costs in 1961 - the modal national cost for an issue of a daily newspaper in 1960 (and, assumably, 1961), according to Editor and Publisher, was 10 cents; today, that modal cost is 1 dollar, compared to 2.50 for a comic book. So, using newspapers as a point of reference, at least, comics have increased at about two and a half times the inflation that we would predict for a newsprint product with both increased advertising over the period and increased competition in the face of falling readership. The last, especially, makes for an interesting comparison.
The other potential point of reference is the price of mass-market magazines (Time, TV Guide, Life, etc.) In 1961, these magazines cost an average of 25 cents; today, a newsstand copy of Time magazine sets you back about 16 times that, at 3.95, or a bit more than 2.5 times overall inflation . Like newspapers and comic books, these magazines have increased the amount of non-editorial content, upgraded paper quality, and faced increased competition for a shrinking market. Compared to Time Magazine and the like, the increase in comic prices have been relatively mild; at the same rate of inflation that they have been subjected to, comics would cost a bit more than a $1.50. Certainly, this is lower than the $2.50 cover price many now sport, but I would argue that a great deal of the difference is due to the massively increased printing quality, rather than the transition from newsstands to comic shops.
So - bottom line - if comics were sold like other things on the newsstands, and hadn't made the transition to speciality stores or increased paper stock overmuch, we would expect them to cost about $1.50, mostly due to increases in the cost of paper, ink, and printing that have affected all printed materials. For the most part, it isn't companies trying to gouge loyal consumers, just an increase in overhead.

[Cray_ws]

You know not to be negative or anything but over the last few years I've seen countless online debates about price-gouging or whatever you want to call it.

As much as anyone complains there isn't going be a change unless the government gets involved and comes to a conclusion that comic publishers are taking advantage of the market. That doesn't look likely because the market that currently exist is micrscopic compared to other forms of entertaintment markets, like movies, video games, and music.

Publishers are going to continue to keep or raise their cover prices until there's point where it won't matter how high or low the price is, no one is gonna bother buying comics anymore. But the market will never disappear and there will always be a group of people who will buy anything these publishers offer regardless of the price. Infact I think we are at a point where 60% of current US market will support comics regardless of price-gouging going on. Because of that, there will likely never be a change without getting the government involved.

Debates about this is good, as it will help educate readers about what is going on in the market and how its effecting the longterm prognosis. I would love for comics to be affordable again, and so would everyone else.

[palefire]

Originally posted by adwomack
Many other things should be considered besides the standard inflation rate when making this comparision. This must include the cost of printing, the employment inflation of the writer, penciller, inker, etc, advertising revenue, and so on. I don't think we could make a fair comparison with all those factors to consider.

I would hope that if the market expands(wishful thinking), that prices can stay the same, and not continue upward, but I do not expect a price decrease any time soon.


Every industry has to deal with the inflation of cost of their overhead and employees - every single one. To say that it is unfair to include comics in a comparison of standard inflation because their overhead and employee costs have experienced inflation is silly. Do you believe that employees outside the comic proffesion haven't seen pay raises over the last 30 years and that overhead costs for industries outside the comic industry haven't increaed over the last 30 years? Of course you don't. Why should the comic industry be given an pass on responsible bussiness practice by its users? The answer to that is - it's not being given a pass. It has suffered and continues to suffer.

That said - I agree with you that we shouldn't hold our collective breath waiting for comic prices to go down. The cat's out of the bag now, I don't think they are going to get it back in anytime soon.

[palefire]

Originally posted by classicist

The other potential point of reference is the price of mass-market magazines (Time, TV Guide, Life, etc.) In 1961, these magazines cost an average of 25 cents; today, a newsstand copy of Time magazine sets you back about 16 times that, at 3.95, or a bit more than 2.5 times overall inflation . Like newspapers and comic books, these magazines have increased the amount of non-editorial content, upgraded paper quality, and faced increased competition for a shrinking market. Compared to Time Magazine and the like, the increase in comic prices have been relatively mild; at the same rate of inflation that they have been subjected to, comics would cost a bit more than a $1.50. Certainly, this is lower than the $2.50 cover price many now sport, but I would argue that a great deal of the difference is due to the massively increased printing quality, rather than the transition from newsstands to comic shops.
So - bottom line - if comics were sold like other things on the newsstands, and hadn't made the transition to speciality stores or increased paper stock overmuch, we would expect them to cost about $1.50, mostly due to increases in the cost of paper, ink, and printing that have affected all printed materials. For the most part, it isn't companies trying to gouge loyal consumers, just an increase in overhead.

Just to keep the comparison apples to apples - the cover price of Time Magazine in March of 1975 was $0.75. Today it is $3.95. That is a 527% increase over the same time comics have seen an increase of 1196%. In other words Time Magazine has increased in cost a rate less than 1/2 of what comics have over the last 30 years. Or - yet another way of describing the comparison of Time Magazines price increase to comics would be to note that if comics had increased at the same rate as Time Magazine over the last 30 years - they would now cost $1.32 per issue.

$2.99, or 226% of $1.32, is an impossible sell as just an increase in overhead. As I noted before - it's caused by a decrease in readership mixed with very short term thinking about how to deal with that decrease in readership on the part of the comic industry. I don't think it's price gouging. I think it's the result of very bad business choices made when readership was in decline.

[reddragon1978]

Hey everyone its wonderful to talk about percents and comparing the increases of yesteryear...but is anyone worried which companies will raise the bar...will start charging past the $3.00 mark?

Marvel is right up there with a lot of indepdant companies...and speaking of the indies..I have been searching other books incase I have to drop my favorites.

$3.00 is quite a chunk of dough when someone like me has an addiction of 35 plus titles each month. I landed a job where it supports my comic collection, but still in yet $3.00 a pop is expensive.

Kinda similiar to the Running Man movie where a can of pop cost $6.00 in one scene at the begining of the show. How much higher can my favorite titles go before enough is enough?

[palefire]

Originally posted by reddragon1978
Hey everyone its wonderful to talk about percents and comparing the increases of yesteryear...but is anyone worried which companies will raise the bar...will start charging past the $3.00 mark?

Marvel is right up there with a lot of indepdant companies...and speaking of the indies..I have been searching other books incase I have to drop my favorites.

$3.00 is quite a chunk of dough when someone like me has an addiction of 35 plus titles each month. I landed a job where it supports my comic collection, but still in yet $3.00 a pop is expensive.

Kinda similiar to the Running Man movie where a can of pop cost $6.00 in one scene at the begining of the show. How much higher can my favorite titles go before enough is enough?

I have a comic habit that runs the same size as yours. Our problems, as comic consumers, is just a reflection of the problems the industry has created for themselves. They are in a catch 22 right now. They are not making money hand over fist off of the sale of comics so they can not afford to reduce the price of comics. At the same time, comics cost too much to expect an notable increase in the size of the comic buying marketplace. As such - it's people like me and you (people that are willing to fork out a lot of cash for our habit) that keep the industry floating. The problem is that inflation will keep marching along and so to will the increases in the cover prices of comics. Loyal readers will only be able to take so much before they start dumping books that they would really like to buy (heck - I'm already there).

[samnoir]

I am surprised the marketing model of making the first issue available online has not taken off as much as these low priced sample issues. Particularly in the age of Trade collections. If a trade is available and someone reads and enjoys that first issue online, it would make sense that they would go out and get the trade to find out the rest of the storyline. Instead of any printing and distribution costs, the only costs for the company would be bandwidth.

Although I guess it might have something to do with the fact that comics does come from a long tradition with the collector's mentality of owning a tactile object or a complete set of something.

The argument for inflation doesn't really hold given all the other external forces at work here. After all, it is no longer the same product as when it cost ten cents (or fifty cents or seventy five cents). The production method and product is completely different. It is no longer a four color newsprint item printed in the millions. The economics based around the cost of production are different if you manufacture something in the millions vs. less than 100 thousand. The paper quality, the printing quality, the colors... we are in fact getting a much nicer product than Dad's comics.

Increasing production costs have probably also been a factor as well as the increasing price of paper. Creators are given royalties now (at least the highest selling books) as opposed to just their page rates.

We also have to take into consideration the fact that mainstream comics have moved from small production houses to being part of corporate structures that are driven by profit for their stock holders.
________________________________________ __

RARE MIKE MIGNOLA HELLBOY POSTER FOR SALE ON EBAY! (http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsa ssZsherwin2000)

JAPANESE ANIME, MANGA and MEMORABILIA FOR SALE ON EBAY! CAPTAIN HARLOCK, GO NAGAI DEVILMAN, ASTROBOY, THE BIG O, GIGANTOR. (http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsa ssZsherwin2000)

[Blind Assassin]

Hate to interrupt the finance lesson ;)

I just wanted to shout out my support for this book. Conan was a surprise hit at our store, still is, and we expect this one to do as well, if not better.

Bravo, gang. Congratulations.

[samnoir]

Originally posted by palefire
Just to keep the comparison apples to apples - the cover price of Time Magazine in March of 1975 was $0.75. Today it is $3.95. That is a 527% increase over the same time comics have seen an increase of 1196%. In other words Time Magazine has increased in cost a rate less than 1/2 of what comics have over the last 30 years. Or - yet another way of describing the comparison of Time Magazines price increase to comics would be to note that if comics had increased at the same rate as Time Magazine over the last 30 years - they would now cost $1.32 per issue.

$2.99, or 226% of $1.32, is an impossible sell as just an increase in overhead. As I noted before - it's caused by a decrease in readership mixed with very short term thinking about how to deal with that decrease in readership on the part of the comic industry. I don't think it's price gouging. I think it's the result of very bad business choices made when readership was in decline.

Time Magazine is definately a good comparison model based on the fact that it resides under the Time/Warner/AOL (or whatever) empire that DC Comics also exists within. As mentioned, one of the major factors is readership and advertising revenue. Time has a much larger readership than any DC Comic and can charge much more and thus make more in ad revenue that helps keep the consumer costs down.

However, I think one of the major factors that occured that makes Time Magazine and Batman like comparing apples and oranges is that they have very different models of revenue. From what I understand, DC Comics went under the wing of Warner Bros Studios as opposed to the magazines/periodicals. My understanding is that DC main profits are from lisencing their characters and they also function as an R&D arm for Warner Brothers. That is why we only have Warner Brothers DC Comics Character movies and Marvel can make deals with multiple studios.

I really do wonder what DC Comics would be like today if they had been sucked into the wing of Time and all the other news-stand magazines. Would DC Comics still be one the news-stands and checkout counters like Archie? They probably would be still pumping out strictly kids stuff under that model and Mature Readers comics, Vertigo, the trade paperbacks and OGN's might not exist in the "mainstream" as defined by the Big Two.

________________________________________ _____

CLINT EASTWOOD VINTAGE DIRTY HARRY BOOKS FOR SALE ON EBAY! (http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsa ssZsherwin2000)

RARE SILVER METALLIC DAVE MCKEAN PROMO POSTER FOR SALE ON EBAY! (http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQsa ssZsherwin2000)

[deco]

Very thoughtful comments by everyone about comic book inflation --- here are my thoughts:

Mass Market Magazine Sales vs. Comic Book Sales – While cover prices of mass market magazines like Time and Newsweek are $3.95, most copies are not sold at that price. Newsstand sales make up a tiny percentage of total circulation. Most issues are sold by subscription at highly discounted rates (anywhere from 50% to 80%). Conversely, comics sell a literal handful of subscription copies (and are lightly discounted, if at all). With that factored in, comics inflation is much higher than other printed material.

Yesterday vs. Today’s Comics Editorial Content – Yes, it’s true that story pages hover around 22 pages today, but with the decompressed storytelling that is now in vogue, average reading time of an issue has decreased. How long did it take to read, say, the latest Lee/Azzarello issue of Superman (and I’m not taking about the time spent trying to figure out whats going on)? Less then 10 minutes? Even at 17 pages of story, a mid-70’s DC or Marvel book took a little longer than that to read.

Non-greedy Publishers – In the mid-90’s, Marvel’s management did a lot to raise the cost of comics, both directly and indirectly --- and it had nothing to do with increased overhead. Before the company went bankrupt, Marvel touted to Wall Street in its’ stock prospectus that fans were so loyal, they would absorb any price increase --- and stated because of this they would raise their per book prices by 25 cents every year, regardless of inflation.

Ill-considered, money-losing business moves, like Marvel’s failed attempt to try and distribute their own books, also didn’t help stabilize prices.

Perceived Value of Comics vs. Other Forms of Entertainment – Let’s say a six issue story arc in a $2.99 book costs $18. At 10-15 minutes of reading time per book, that equals an hour to an hour and a half of entertainment. For the same $18 you can pre-order the new Harry Potter book at Amazon (I dare say, it’ll take more than an hour and a half to read.) For around the same price you could also buy a new DVD, with anywhere from two to six hours of viewing on it, depending on the amount of extras.

And for all of their increased production values, today’s comics don’t feel like they’re worth it to the general public. The glossy paper makes them feel thinner and flimsier than ever.


In closing, the bottom line is that comics do cost too much. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not a grouser who lives in the past. I love comics --- from all companies. I understand nothing costs what it once did. But current comics’ wounds are self-inflicted and can’t be laid at the doorstep of inflation. When a fan like me hesitates to pay three bucks for a book, why would an outsider fork it over?

[thunder5x]

You guys need to stop trying to compare 2005 comics to 1975 comics. They are not the same. Image and Crossgen changed that. In 1990 Image showed us what a difference paper could make, Marvel and DC slowly followed. No more crappy newsprint, thank god. Comics went from $1.00 to $1.95 because of the better quality paper not inflation. Fast forward another decade and Crossgen shows up and basically revolutionizes the coloring process. Again prices increase because of the better stock paper for the new coloring process. Again not because of inflation. Also the price continues to increase because the volume is not there like it was in the past. Spawn #1 sold a million copies, if you are VERY lucky the top 5 books sell 100,000 copies. Other titles, there numbers are very scary. That's why only the better selling titles can be priced at $2.25, while the norm is $2.95.

While my facts may not be 100% accurate, you get the gist of what I am saying. These aren't your daddy's crappy disposable newsprint comics. The comics produced now should look exactly the same in 30 years, as they were when they were printed. Can you say the same about thing about the yellowing smelly copy of Giant sized X-Men #1? I didn't think so.

Mike

[Dreighton]

Originally posted by palefire
The problem is that inflation will keep marching along and so to will the increases in the cover prices of comics. Loyal readers will only be able to take so much before they start dumping books that they would really like to buy (heck - I'm already there).

Yep. As you pointed out before. It's not gouging. It's actually basic supply and demand. And in this case, it's the supply side, that's dictating the price point. If a comic company prices comics at $2.99 and has 40,000 sales per month the gross is $119,600 if they raise the price to $3.25 and 5k deciede not to but and sales drop to 35,000/month then their montly gross is $113,750...or a loss of almost $6,000/month but if only 1k people drop it, and it sales 39,000 per month then gross sales is now $126,750

This is called the "elasticity" in demand stays relatively the same over a wide price point, as it currently is due to us few die hard hanger on comic fans then prices can go up.

There is a point of course where that elasticity will become "unelastic" and consumers won't buy anymore. However, with the supply and demand point there is a meeting point. If say Marvel, decided to publish 2 copies of Amazing Spiderman per month, and price them at $150,00 each then Marvel would gross $200,000 in sales. And I would ass-u-me that at that price point there would be 2 people, that would pay that amount. And that is supply and demand. At 25c, 200,00 people will buy Red Sonja, but the comic companies don't want to or can't supply at that price point longer then a one issue promo.

(I knew that minor in Economics would pay off ONE day!)

Dreighton

[Nat Gertler]

Originally posted by Dreighton
But if comics were to price themselves with normal inflation of where they were 30 years ago we would be around $1 per comic. And at a buck I don't think anyone would be talking about the death of the comics industry or how do we reach kids with comics.Except that 30 years ago, people were talking about that very thing.

(Oh, and my friend Captain Math wanted me to pass this along to palefire:
"You're miscalculating or at least misdescribing increases. You're forgetting to subtract the original price from the calculation. The way you're calculating it, you'd say that if the price goes from $1 to $1.01, it had increased 101% when the real increase is only 1%.")

[Nat Gertler]

Originally posted by thunder5x
Comics went from $1.00 to $1.95 because of the better quality paper not inflation.No, the better quality paper makes up a very small portion of the price difference.

[deco]

Originally posted by thunder5x
You guys need to stop trying to compare 2005 comics to 1975 comics. They are not the same. Image and Crossgen changed that. In 1990 Image showed us what a difference paper could make, Marvel and DC slowly followed. No more crappy newsprint, thank god. Comics went from $1.00 to $1.95 because of the better quality paper not inflation. Fast forward another decade and Crossgen shows up and basically revolutionizes the coloring process. Again prices increase because of the better stock paper for the new coloring process. Again not because of inflation. Also the price continues to increase because the volume is not there like it was in the past. Spawn #1 sold a million copies, if you are VERY lucky the top 5 books sell 100,000 copies. Other titles, there numbers are very scary. That's why only the better selling titles can be priced at $2.25, while the norm is $2.95.

While my facts may not be 100% accurate, you get the gist of what I am saying. These aren't your daddy's crappy disposable newsprint comics. The comics produced now should look exactly the same in 30 years, as they were when they were printed. Can you say the same about thing about the yellowing smelly copy of Giant sized X-Men #1? I didn't think so.

Respectfully Thunder5x, newsprint comics may have felt like they were printed on toilet paper, but they sold! People don’t but a book because of what it’s printed on (look at Manga as an example of lower quality paper not negatively affecting sales). Today’s American comic books are sold to a very, very tiny audience.

And Crossgen may have revolutionized comics coloring, but they couldn’t sell enough books and went out of business.

[bottleHeD]

I'd rather buy something that's good to read, than something that's good to hold and feel...

[Strike]

I'm looking forward to reading this. I have been ever since I first heard about it.


Hopefully, the success of this will convince everyone else to make low-priced first issues a regular thing.

[Vyper]

Originally posted by deco

And Crossgen may have revolutionized comics coloring, but they couldn’t sell enough books and went out of business.
Actually, CrossGen's sales were not the problem - they sold fairly large numbers of books for a small, newcomer publisher. Their demise was in large part due to mismanagement and poor business decisions.

[Hebime]

Originally posted by Dreighton
And at a buck I don't think anyone would be talking about the death of the comics industry or how do we reach kids with comics.

Are you smoking crack?

Or Just not paying attention the past, oh, 15 years?

The prices went up, because people have by and large stopped buying comics. kids dont buy them, and nobody speculates. The rising costs of printing have to do with the fact that printed material is seeing less demand(not just comics) Comics would need to see an ENOURMOUS increase in readership to make the dollar price point feasable, and quite simply, it's just not going to happen.

They are doing their level best to keep things steady as it is. Just dropping the price won't bring in the new readers in the numbers needed. It would merely increase the number sold to the current fanbase, which would still end up being a catastrophic loose to them, either selling books at less than the cost to print them or printing and pulping milllions of books a month.


The 25 cent book is a great thing. Yes it is a loss, but it is an advertising expense that you can recoop later in long term sales when people pick up that first iss who might not have otherwise. I expect to continue to see quarter into issues as a sound way to get the book into people's hands.

[raven1979]

Well if we take a look at crude numbers , they are not as uplifting.

2.99/ 0.25 = 12

200,000 / 12 = 17,083

Tought issue #1 will probably land at around the 35,000-45,000.

I guess its because its a independant book that it gets a push of media attention revealing the sales numbers, and I wish the best to the guys.

[GenXMaverick]

Originally posted by classicist
Comic prices have risen faster than inflation, but not by as much as some people think.
>SNIP<
The other potential point of reference is the price of mass-market magazines (Time, TV Guide, Life, etc.) In 1961, these magazines cost an average of 25 cents; today, a newsstand copy of Time magazine sets you back about 16 times that, at 3.95, or a bit more than 2.5 times overall inflation. Like newspapers and comic books, these magazines have increased the amount of non-editorial content, upgraded paper quality, and faced increased competition for a shrinking market. Compared to Time Magazine and the like, the increase in comic prices have been relatively mild; at the same rate of inflation that they have been subjected to, comics would cost a bit more than a $1.50. Certainly, this is lower than the $2.50 cover price many now sport, but I would argue that a great deal of the difference is due to the massively increased printing quality, rather than the transition from newsstands to comic shops.

So - bottom line - if comics were sold like other things on the newsstands, and hadn't made the transition to speciality stores or increased paper stock overmuch, we would expect them to cost about $1.50, mostly due to increases in the cost of paper, ink, and printing that have affected all printed materials. For the most part, it isn't companies trying to gouge loyal consumers, just an increase in overhead. Great, great post! Well-done! :)

I've always thought a comparison of magazines to comics would give a very effective model for how costs have increased over the years. You really nailed it on the head. Magazines are indeed an excellent barometer of cost increases for comics. That helps a lot with how I'm going to look at this subject in the future. Thanks! :)

[raven1979]

Respectfully Thunder5x, newsprint comics may have felt like they were printed on toilet paper, but they sold! People don’t but a book because of what it’s printed on (look at Manga as an example of lower quality paper not negatively affecting sales). Today’s American comic books are sold to a very, very tiny audience.

The mentality in the manga market is very different than the one on the comic market.

I have seen a lot of bad reactions on varius forums to the proposal of B/W comics or Digest size (tought it help Runaways) people were mad of recieving smaller reprinst of Spider-girl as opposed to the regular sized TPB.

Art is just that much important to american comics fans (The whole manga style is there to permit 22 pages of art to be produced per week , while now artist in the USA are moving to most photorealistic, painted ,computer detailed art , were it seem they no longer can do 22 pages per month).

In the 90s marvel launched their deluxe (expensive ,glossy) and newspapaer presentations of comics, the orders for deluxe always were bigger than those of the cheaper lower quality with the exact same content, Spawn also sold, at 1.95 almost 50 or 70 cents more expensive than the competition it was the #1 selling for some time.

For comic fans it is important were a comic is print ,and I know there are exceptions, cause I am sure there will be replys with people saying they enjoy the essentials and digest (like I pointed out before for runaways) still there is a market that doesn't accept them.

Im sure a lot of people will prefer to pay the difference to continue seeing Laura Martin's colors on Astonishing or Isanove's as opposed to the ink dots.

[Beetle Bomb]

I'm in it for the long haul...(however long that is...)

[tim seeley]

I can tell ya one thing..rising comic costs aren't due to comic creators making too much money. When was the last time a comic creator could even afford to buy you a drink? The money is going to the distributor...not us lowly pencil pushers.

TIM

[nenad]

I am not sure if these kind of deals work. It would be great if they do, but even giving comics for free isn't doing much (as on Free Comics Day - have yet to see some of those titles getting new readership). It gives some attention to the title and perhaps a few people that didn't hear of it will check it out, but I am really wondering how sustainable this is. Marvel and DC have done it and all those special deal titles have gone nowhere.

But there's a few things I don't understand. Let's say someone is offering you something for pennies that you do not need or want. Why buy it even if it's pennies? On the other hand let's say you buy the issue because you are interested and as a bonus it's only 25c. Why stop buying it? Ok, maybe you didn't like it, but this will have a huge drop off in orders next month: I am guessing it won't even make Top 100. So all those people that bought the first issue didn't like it? Can't really get the mindset of customers here?

Maybe the retailers are buying extra copies to give away to customers...

Anyway, it's great to see someone challenging the DC/Marvel stronghold even if by these promotional deals.

[deco]

Originally posted by Vyper
Actually, CrossGen's sales were not the problem - they sold fairly large numbers of books for a small, newcomer publisher. Their demise was in large part due to mismanagement and poor business decisions.

Yes, there was mismanagement at Crossgen, but the "poor business decisions" part of your equation rests on the fact that they simply didn't sell enough books to stay in business! I'm sorry to burst everyone's bubble here, but mainstream comics wouldn't exist anymore if it wasn't for licensing. Big companies (or small, like Crossgen), can't survive on circulations of under 100,000 down to 15,000 (and Crossgen's sales were near the bottom of this range). These companies not only have to pay big percentages of the cover price to distributors and retailers, they also have to pay artists, writers, colorists, letterers, editors, insurance, rent, promotion, financing costs, management, office staff, office expenses and getting the darn books printed in the first place.

[paulski]

Originally posted by palefire
Loyal readers will only be able to take so much before they start dumping books that they would really like to buy (heck - I'm already there).

As am I. For example, I would have loved to have bought Shanna when it came out (if only to support Monkey Boy Cho), but, at $3.50 an issue, Marvel can get stuffed.

Finances weren't an issue. But principles were. :(

[PDavid]

Great news for the company and people involved in this project. Wish them the best of luck.


Now to subject of the pricing of comics.
Marvel's publishing division has a profit margin of more than 40%, according to their 2004 annual report. So they are making a lot of money just selling comics and TPB.

They could easily decrease the price of some of their titles, the problem is a decrease in price would not necessarily translate into an increase in sales.

Consider that their highest selling title is 2.99 and sells about 150.000 copies a month. I think that decreasing the price would not increase the readership. 150.000 seems to be the ceiling for an ongoing monthly at this moment.

[Jeremy Williams]

Neat stunt. It goes to show you that...

...I lost my train of toughts there for a second. :D The comic will probably sell 25 000 copies by issue 5.

[robw1969]

The reason Red Sonja #0 has sold so many copies is because retailers got one free copy of the (expensive) Alex Ross variant cover for every 100 copies of the regular cover they ordered. I was tempted to order a few hundred copies myself, give the regular #0 away and make a profit on the freebie, which is what I'm sure most other retailers are doing. I doubt this would have gone anywhere near 200,000 copies without the incentive.

[raven1979]

^Interisting info.

[Blind Assassin]

Originally posted by robw1969
The reason Red Sonja #0 has sold so many copies is because retailers got one free copy of the (expensive) Alex Ross variant cover for every 100 copies of the regular cover they ordered. I was tempted to order a few hundred copies myself, give the regular #0 away and make a profit on the freebie, which is what I'm sure most other retailers are doing. I doubt this would have gone anywhere near 200,000 copies without the incentive.


Not the case at our store. The incentive had nothing to do with our ordering. We said 'Hey, its only a quarter! Remember how well Conan did with its 25 cent issue? And all the readers who came into our store (NEW PEOPLE WE HAD NEVER SEEN) that would come in 8 months into the run, and buy up issues 0-8. We kept selling out of the damn book. Once we reordered, they would be gone again. It was like that for the first ten months.

With Red Sonja, we expect the same great results, and we ordered accordingly.

[UX-Gal]

With that cover, it's clear that people are getting this comic because of the "deep story" and "rich characterization"

*evil grin*

[mrpoizun]

Interesting tangent this thread went off on.
Two things I didn't see mentioned. Although the page count has remained pretty much at 22 pages, despite all of the annoyingly dishonest solicitations that say 32, the art and story content have dropped precipitously. If you look at your older X-Men titles you'll see many pages with 12 panels of art per page! Nowadays you see many 1-3 panel pages in every book, not to mention the artifice of using the same illustration over and over again; a good example being the Wolverine/Black Widow dialogue from the Bendis arc not too long ago in Ultimate X-Men.
And then there's the practice of stretching a 2 or 3 book story into 5 or 6 books; that same Bendis arc in UXM being another good example.
Does anyone remember the old Marvel Comics Presents? That book had 32 pages of art and story, covers on both front and back, and credits and letters on the inside covers. Most had no ads at all, and this for $1.50!
I guess my point is, they charge $3 because we're all dumb enough to pay it.

[Dulcimer]

now, i'm not all up in the biz, but just how much revenue does advertising represent?
i say charge more for ads, and lower the purchase price! Cheaper comics mean higher # of books sold and advertisers are happy because mo' people are seeing their ad.

yay for Sonja #0! can't wait to have her in my oily hands!!

[Nat Gertler]

Originally posted by Dulcimer
Cheaper comics mean higher # of books sold and advertisers are happy because mo' people are seeing their ad. Comics are not an easy place to sell ads, for a number of reasons. And despite economic instincts, there is little sign that lowering the price of comics (exception for promotional first issues) does increase sales. In fact, there is a very good case to be made that comics sales were hurt in the long term by keeping the cover prices too low; it was no longer worthwhile for certain outlets to carry them, because of the low profit involved compared to various magazines.

[Allen Jaco]

One thing that I think needs to be remembered is that comics companies don't think of the industry; they think of their company. If Marvel or DC (to use as an example) raises prices on one book, people don't necessarily drop that book. They drop another book they like less, . Often times that book would be another company's (perhaps Image or Oni), not Marvel's. Marvel and DC doesn't lose that money, but actually makes more. Hence there is no apparent incentive to keep prices lower.

This is the real problem. Nobody buys lesser-known books because they have to get that X-Men/Spider-Man/Batman/Superman fix. They'll pay for those, but other titles (like say a Fallen Angel or a Sentinel) get ignored.

And as to Red Sonja, looking at that cover just makes me lament the late Crossgen series Sojourn. You know, that very well written and expertly drawn sword-and-sorcery fantasy book that didn't require a scantily-clad babe on the cover....

Of course, I'll still pick this up and give it a try. I'm just too much of a sucker for fantasy, and I would like it to succeed because of that very lack of diversity in the "popular" market.

[David H.]

Originally posted by thunder5x
You guys need to stop trying to compare 2005 comics to 1975 comics. They are not the same. Image and Crossgen changed that. In 1990 Image showed us what a difference paper could make, Marvel and DC slowly followed. No more crappy newsprint, thank god. Comics went from $1.00 to $1.95 because of the better quality paper not inflation. Fast forward another decade and Crossgen shows up and basically revolutionizes the coloring process. Again prices increase because of the better stock paper for the new coloring process. Again not because of inflation. Also the price continues to increase because the volume is not there like it was in the past. Spawn #1 sold a million copies, if you are VERY lucky the top 5 books sell 100,000 copies. Other titles, there numbers are very scary. That's why only the better selling titles can be priced at $2.25, while the norm is $2.95.

While my facts may not be 100% accurate, you get the gist of what I am saying. These aren't your daddy's crappy disposable newsprint comics. The comics produced now should look exactly the same in 30 years, as they were when they were printed. Can you say the same about thing about the yellowing smelly copy of Giant sized X-Men #1? I didn't think so.

Mike

There is a flaw in your logic that you're missing.

Before all of these increases in quality and price, the comics were selling hundreds of thousands of copies each. Then they raised the prices to accomodate these increases in quality in the printing and color. And now they sell a whole lot less than they ever did.

How is this a good business model?

The lesson that I get from this is that the vast majority of the customer base didn't feel that the increase in paper and color qwuality was worth the price they charged for it.

That's a lesson that publishers should take to heart. Personally, I buy the comics for the STORIES and the ART, not for the paper quality. Yes, it's nice when it's nicer quality paper. But I'd still rather pay half as much. And if they charged half as much, I'd buy a whole lot more comics that I've been buying this year. I simply can't justify $3 for comics that take me 10 minutes to read that I'll likely never read again. Sure that paper quality is nice. But I'd rather read twice as many comics on poorer quality paper for the same price.

You know what I'd love to see? Some brave MAJOR publisher offer some of their comice at a greatly reduced rate, even if it means cheaper paper and printing and color. Offer both formats, if necessary. And see how well they do.

I'd be willing to bet that if DC offered post-Lee Superman at $1 or $1.50 on crappy paper, it would sell a whole lot better than it will be after Lee's arc ends. Those readers who wold have dropped the book might just stick around for a buck an issue. And ultimately, they might make MORE money.

And what would happen if Marvel offered one of the Spider-Man books in BOTH formats. It would be interesting to see which version sold more copies. But it would be even more interesting to see if the OVERALL sales increased.

[David H.]

Originally posted by bottleHeD
I'd rather buy something that's good to read, than something that's good to hold and feel...

Hear Hear. I couldn't have put it better!

If you're the kind of fan who gets excited holding and feeling your comics, I don't think I want to know you! ;-)

[palefire]

Originally posted by David H.


You know what I'd love to see? Some brave MAJOR publisher offer some of their comice at a greatly reduced rate, even if it means cheaper paper and printing and color. Offer both formats, if necessary. And see how well they do.

I'd be willing to bet that if DC offered post-Lee Superman at $1 or $1.50 on crappy paper, it would sell a whole lot better than it will be after Lee's arc ends. Those readers who wold have dropped the book might just stick around for a buck an issue. And ultimately, they might make MORE money.

And what would happen if Marvel offered one of the Spider-Man books in BOTH formats. It would be interesting to see which version sold more copies. But it would be even more interesting to see if the OVERALL sales increased.

Exactly!!!

[Nat Gertler]

Originally posted by David H.
Before all of these increases in quality and price, the comics were selling hundreds of thousands of copies each. Then they raised the prices to accomodate these increases in quality in the printing and color. And now they sell a whole lot less than they ever did. That history is a bit illusory.

Comics sales were well down from their peak before the general enhancement began.

Comics prices had already increased substantially before the introduction of the better stock.

The price increases were not generally done to accomodate the better printing stock. Rather, the publishers figured that as long as they were increasing prices anyway, they might as well spend the very small amount it took to get the better paper. In some cases, the better paper was actually cheaper than the material they were using before.

Comics sales increased substantially after the start of the trend toward better paper.

We cannot go back to printing on the old presses. The old presses are gone. The World Color Press presses have been gone for years. The Charlton Comics presses for even longer.

The cost of the fancy coloring is a first-unit cost, not a marginal unit cost (i.e., it costs the same whether you're printing 1 copy or 100,000 -- unless you're thinking of dropping to less than 4 colors for your printing.) As such, if the publishers are setting their price point to maximize profit, the cost of the added coloring effort doesn't even come into the calculation of that price point. (It will come into the calculation of whether they do the project at all, mind you, but given the growth in the number of titles from Marvel and DC, it doesn't seem to have held them back.)

Oh, and that increase in titles (and the increase in thicker formats) makes sales comparisons difficult. With that large an increase in titles, one would expect per-title sales to suffer, as readers get spread out more.

[amaraswen]

Originally posted by David H.
You know what I'd love to see? Some brave MAJOR publisher offer some of their comice at a greatly reduced rate

And what would happen if Marvel offered one of the Spider-Man books in BOTH formats. It would be interesting to see which version sold more copies. But it would be even more interesting to see if the OVERALL sales increased.

Don't you remember this book? (Click to enlarge):

http://www.spiderfan.org/comics/images3/spiderman_untold_tales/001.jpg (http://www.spiderfan.org/cgi-bin/cover.pl?80123,spiderman_untold_tales,00 1.jpg)

Untold Tales of Spider-Man
99 Cents per issue
Kurt Busiek writing
Cancelled with issue #25

There were more like this, including an X-Men spin-off, and all were cancelled after very short runs.

[alrioart]

Originally posted by UX-Gal
With that cover, it's clear that people are getting this comic because of the "deep story" and "rich characterization"

*evil grin*

Funny!
That's certainly why *I* ordered it! ;)

Seriously, it's clear the price point, the retailer incentive and the ta-tas are the selling points. Nothing wrong with that IMHO.

Terry