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MattBrady
06-02-2003, 09:47 AM
<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/sangiacomo/Epic2.jpg" width="200" height="304" border="0" hspace="2" align="right">by Mike San Giacomo

For those coming in late, comic critic Mike San Giacomo, who may or may not be related to actress Laura San Giacomo, along with about 50 other critics, responded to a challenge from Marvel to write a comic for the soon-to-be-relaunched Epic line.

My character, Nowhere Man, a newspaper reporter who can turn invisible, struck someone’s fancy at 10 E. 40th St. I was asked to turn my single story into a four-issue series for consideration.

I had written the second version of the first issue and synopses of the last three issues and sent them to Marvel Assistant Editor Stephanie Moore.

Last week I rewrote the first and second issues and sent version three to Marvel.

It was about a week later, an e-mail followed by a phone call from Stephanie.

Once again, Stephanie was very supportive about the rewrites. She liked the dialogue, liked the basic idea of a character who had a power but was not a hero, but did good things when it suited him. She thought my character’s origin was interesting, liked the pacing...

But...

Oh no. The killer “But...” again.

“We can’t kill Saddam Hussein,” she said. “It’s just making people uncomfortable.”

That was no surprise, I was surprised that it had gotten that far.

How about if we just shoot him at the end of the series?

“Uh, no.”

Just a flesh wound?

“We’d rather not have world leaders shot in the pages of our comics.”

Okay, I’m a pretty reasonable guy.

So when do I get my $500 acceptance check?

“We’re not there yet, but it’s very close,” she said.

Did I mention that I’m a guinea pig with this whole Epic stuff – one of the first few creators asked to pitch stories and have them accepted? I’m a guinea pig. I’m a guinea pig. Saying it over and over doesn’t necessarily make me feel better, but it helps to remind me that this path is going to be rough, like the path taken by guinea pigs in research – if they survive the experience, that is.

So what can I do to improve it?

I should say at this point that the first issue was structured to begin with our hero jogging in the park and happening on a mugging. He fades (turns invisible) clobbers the mugger and jogs away.

He goes to work, there is some clever conversation about the invisible hero in the park that the newspaper has dubbed “The Nowhere Man,” a few more scenes and then a flashback to five years earlier when Jack Baxter was in Baghdad.

There’s the rub.

“We don’t want flashbacks,” she said.

Excuse me?

“We don’t want flashbacks,” she repeated.

But, but, but, flashbacks are an essential part of storytelling. Citizen Kane, Moby Dick, Forrest
Gump.

She countered that the best of Marvel comics began at the beginning with an origin: Spider-Man, Hulk, Avengers, Ultimate Spider-Man.

Ah-ha, I thought but didn’t say, what about the X-Men? Wolverine? We went years without an origin, even the Fantastic Four started in an action scene and told the origin in flashback. They did okay.

I thought that. What I said was, “hmmm, so what do you suggest?” as I feared what came next.

“I hate to say this, but I think we ought to start with his origin,” she said.

And that brings me to my oft-used line, “Titanic. Nice story, but does it have to be about a boat?”

It’s not like Nowhere Man doesn’t have an origin. It’s a terrific origin, full of irony and pathos and cool explosions. It’s just that I was planning to get into the origin in the second issue.

Not only that, if we have to go in sequence, Jack would have to go to Baghdad next, so he would not even get to the big city paper until the third issue. This would be more Smallville than anything else.

Bottom line was that the simple suggestion meant trashing most of what I had written before. Gotta say, I was not real happy about the prospect. But then she said that we could always get into that stuff later.

I interpreted that as “later, like more issues.”

What the heck, I’m a trooper. As someone once said, and since I can’t remember who it was we’ll just assume it was me, “Dude, you’re getting paid to write comics. Even the worst day of writing comics beats digging ditches.”

This is true, I used to dig ditches so I know.

I agreed to start at the beginning and put Jack through his paces. Fortunately, my “real” job as a reporter that week meant I was heading out on a 200 mile trip to Detroit to work on a teenage prostitution ring story, so I would have time to plot it out.

I said, “Give me the weekend.”

To be continued…

<center><a href="http://www.newsarama.com/sangiacomo/Nowhere_Man.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/sangiacomo/Nowhere_Man_t.jpg" width="350" height="108" border="0" alt="tentative logo design for Nowhere Man"></a></center>

(logo design by Mitchell Breitweiser)

[As was <a href="http://www.newsarama.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=00066 7" target="_blank">reported</a> at this past weekend's Wizard World Phildelphia, Breitweiser will be the artist on Nowhere Man.]

Mike Sangiacomo, a freelance writer for Newsarama and other sources, was invited to share his experiences with pitching to Epic by Newsarama's editor, Matt Brady, in the interest of keeping readers well informed. Brady advises Newsarama readers that he is aware of the inherent conflict of interest presented by journalists working for a publisher they cover. Sangiacomo’s regular column Journey Into Comics has and will continue to be found in the Opinion/Editorial section of Newsarama. Brady has not, nor does he plan to pitch to Epic himself.

Jason A. Quest
06-02-2003, 02:12 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>“I hate to say this, but I think we ought to start with his origin,” she said.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No problemo! The very first words in the script I'm pitching are "In The Beginning..." :D

-JAQ

Jun Kim
06-02-2003, 02:14 PM
Congratulations, Mitchell! Look forward to seeing some good work coming from you.

Well, at least with one more decision down, I hope you're resting better, Mike. :-)

L'Zoril
06-02-2003, 07:09 PM
it sure must suck to get your script totally screwed up. the one i'm pitching, people jump straight to action. there's no origin at all. DAMN!

Super Skrull
06-02-2003, 07:15 PM
Egads! Start with the origin...no flashbacks...Looks like I need to rewrite my script. I really appreciate these columns.

I am working on some EPIC sripts using established characters, but I guess I should have figured out from reading the guidelines on the epic site that I shouldn't have went with those flashbacks.

For example...if I was writing about Doc Cck (im not) do you think Id be better off starting from scratch with his origin and then getting to the big story idea I have?

Currently, my Marvel Villain's main story is in the present, but I flashback to show a few choice times in his past that relate to the new story. Bad idea?

Karl V
06-03-2003, 01:29 AM
Consider flashbacks like those horrendous notes in comics that tell you to go back to a certain issue so you can know what the character is referring.
You've just managed to waste space by showing something in the past rather used for what it should be: elaborating and creating a future.

Just my opin though.

Jason A. Quest
06-03-2003, 08:40 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Super Skrull:
<strong>For example...if I was writing about Doc Ock (im not) do you think Id be better off starting from scratch with his origin and then getting to the big story idea I have?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Unless the character is somebody everybody knows (from the movies) ya gotta tell us who they are *somehow* before ya tell us what theyre doing. Otherwise we'll be goin "What's this dude's deal with the fake spider arms?" Don't think of it as an "origin" but "characterization".

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Currently, my Marvel Villain's main story is in the present, but I flashback to show a few choice times in his past that relate to the new story. Bad idea?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Maybe a short flashback later for filler info would be OK, but youre prolly better off puttnig those scenes at the beginning, as part of the intro to the character. Flashback = OK, Foreshadow = Better.

-JAQ

mike sangiacomo
06-03-2003, 11:29 AM
Mike S. here.

A word of advice to you aspiring, perspiring, writers: start at the beginning. The kinds of scripts Marvel does not want to see are those that begin with an action sequence and follow with a "how we got here" story. And the one pet peeve that Steph has is a story that opens with the character in a precarious situation talking or thinking "I guess you're wondering how I got here."
M

Morpheus
06-03-2003, 11:42 AM
I am writing a script to epic,in my first issue, the main character tells to a psychologist, his story, just like Tony Soprano did in the Sopranos pilot.this way I use flashbacks, to show the readers, his complete origin in the first issue...
I´d like to ask MItchel or anyone else who could help me:
Do think that even this kind of flashback is not aceptable?

AndroidShogun
06-03-2003, 11:47 AM
The way I've worked around this is that my four issue mini-series that im doing, which is about one of the most coolest marvel heroes around but he is so badly underused it's the reason I had to write this series, is that im kind of doing it like a 'life story'. Heres an example:

#1: When a teen
#2: When a young man
#3: When a man
#4: When an Old Man (A look into the future.)

Im not doing my issue set up exactly like this but, this is what I mean. It's a cool way to show the choices and events that happen to my hero as he grows and what what kind of hero he becomes due to these effects.

Could someone help me out with there opinion? I heard marvel want six issue arcs but, I'd prefer this as four. Should I see if I can stretch it to six or just pitch it as a four and see if/when they reply if they want me to change it?

Jason A. Quest
06-03-2003, 01:03 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by AndroidShogun:
<strong>I heard marvel want six issue arcs but, I'd prefer this as four. Should I see if I can stretch it to six or just pitch it as a four and see if/when they reply if they want me to change it?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Dont stretch your story to 6 issues just cause someone at Marvel said thats a good lentgh for stories in general. If yours works good at 4 issues they will *not* ask you to make it longer. I guarantee it. The main thing is not to write a story any longer than 6 issues because of two reasons: if they do a TPB theyd have to charge $20 or more for a book that thick, and your story is prolly dragging on way to long anyway.

Super Skrull
06-03-2003, 06:18 PM
Thanks for the advice, you guys rule!

And Mike S., the columns are very helpful.

mike sangiacomo
06-04-2003, 12:48 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Morpheus:
<strong>I am writing a script to epic,in my first issue, the main character tells to a psychologist, his story, just like Tony Soprano did in the Sopranos pilot.this way I use flashbacks, to show the readers, his complete origin in the first issue...
I´d like to ask MItchel or anyone else who could help me:
Do think that even this kind of flashback is not aceptable?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Mike here:
From what I have been told, Marvel is not interested in flashbacks. Your idea sounds workable to me, but my guess is that you are wasting your time. I know it's a stupid policy, but they seem to think it works.
Good luck.
M

Kane_Gilmour
06-04-2003, 12:54 AM
Am I the only one on this EPIC journey that has noticed that the Artist samples and contact info hasn't appeared on EPIC's website yet, in spite of the fact that they say it will be there after May 22nd?

Any news here, Mike? Since the site has no contact information, or e-mail addresses (even for a webmaster), you are our only source of info. :rolleyes:

Brand Echh
06-04-2003, 02:19 AM
Quesions:

Any word on multiple entries? Do we send them at once or seporately?

Do they want resumes?

Do they want break downs of a four-six issue arc?

What about cover letters?

Brand Echh
06-04-2003, 02:28 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by mike sangiacomo:
<strong>Mike here:
From what I have been told, Marvel is not interested in flashbacks. Your idea sounds workable to me, but my guess is that you are wasting your time. I know it's a stupid policy, but they seem to think it works.
Good luck.
M</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hmph. One of my proposals has one flashback per issue... but it's not of the character, but of his family over the past three generations...

course, that same proposal bends some other Epic guidelines, but I can still give it a shot...

Longshot
06-04-2003, 02:51 AM
Wow. Sounds like Marvel is right, cuz mine had a flashback on the 2nd page, and it sounds like so did everyone else's. maybe we all need to go back and give our stories something different. something that we al don't already read a few times every month.

Think outside the box, overshoot the extreme, and so on...

Todd VerBeek
06-04-2003, 08:50 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Kane_Gilmour:
<strong>Am I the only one on this EPIC journey that has noticed that the Artist samples and contact info hasn't appeared on EPIC's website yet, in spite of the fact that they say it will be there after May 22nd?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think this is just a case of the way the web site got put together, a bit at a time, rather than thinking the whole thing through ahead of time. They can't start putting art samples up until they've approved submissions, and they didn't start accepting submissions until May 22. So logically, they wouldn't have samples to put up until well after May 22, not that very day. Besides, unless you have a $500 check and an acceptance letter from Marvel in your hands, it's premature to be contacting - or even window-shopping for - artists at this point.

Also, it's possible that only approved writers will get access to the samples. I know if I were running Epic, I wouldn't want to provide a free index to qualified artists for my competitors to use.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Brand Echh:
<strong>Any word on multiple entries? Do we send them at once or seporately?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I can't see why they'd care, as long as each one has its own complete documentation attached to it. (At least I hope they don't care, because I just sent two proposals in the same envelope. :) )

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Do they want resumes? What about cover letters?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They didn't ask for them, so I'd say not. Writer J.Torres commented about this in his forum on ComicBookResources.com, and observed that "extras" to get your submission to stand out are as likely to annoy the editors, in proportion to how hard you try. I included just a cover sheet with a synopsis, setting info, character list, etc.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"><strong>Do they want break downs of a four-six issue arc?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">They want a "beat sheet" for the first story arc of an ongoing series or for the whole limited series, as described in the Submission Guidelines document.

Morpheus
06-04-2003, 09:22 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by mike sangiacomo:
<strong>[QUOTE]Originally posted by Morpheus:
[qb]Mike here:
From what I have been told, Marvel is not interested in flashbacks. Your idea sounds workable to me, but my guess is that you are wasting your time. I know it's a stupid policy, but they seem to think it works.
Good luck.
M</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Thanks for the help, Mike, I will rewrite my script, witouth any flash back...

Kane_Gilmour
06-04-2003, 09:35 AM
Thanks, Todd.

I was under the impression that art was being accepted prior to the 22nd.

No check yet, but I wanted to see what kind of caliber of artist is making the cut.

I agree also, that it would be wise to make those samples available only to approved writers.

Cheers.

-Kane

clay78
06-05-2003, 10:10 AM
Alan Moore must be an idiot to have used all those flashbacks in "Watchmen".

some_bloke
06-05-2003, 10:43 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Karl V:
<strong>Consider flashbacks like those horrendous notes in comics that tell you to go back to a certain issue so you can know what the character is referring.
You've just managed to waste space by showing something in the past rather used for what it should be: elaborating and creating a future.

Just my opin though.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Wow. You must have really hated Memento :)

Marc Patten
06-05-2003, 09:38 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Morpheus:
<strong>
I´d like to ask MItchel or anyone else who could help me:
Do think that even this kind of flashback is not aceptable?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey Gang,

Marc here from Destination Entertainment. We're the guys producing Crimson Dynamo (On Sale July 30th--order now!!). I think what Marvel is looking for is to see that folks submitting have the chops to write a good story.

You can't take anything verbatim, like "No flashbacks, ever" or "always start at the beginning," because not all good writing is done that way. These were merely guidelines given out for novice writers that will make things easier for them to understand the construction of a basic story. Story Sructure is key. Go to your local book store and pick up "Scene and Structure" by Jack Bickham or the "The Writer's Journey" by Christopher Vogler. These will help you craft and organize your stories better.

The most important thing that I said in the Epic Panel at Wizard Philly is "Write what you know." Make stories personal, and the good will come out. If what you submit has some merit, Marvel will see it, trust me.

Mike Sang. is telling it like it is--they saw a potential for a great story in Nowhere Man and are working with him to bring it to life. Just write. Get it all down and don't sweat the details and the do's and don'ts. That not how great writers think. Remember, it's all about the story and how well you can tell it.

Good Luck!
--Marc P.
Destination Entertainment, LLC.
destinent1@aol.com

Todd VerBeek
06-06-2003, 01:57 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by clay78:
<strong>Alan Moore must be an idiot to have used all those flashbacks in "Watchmen".</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I've read Alan Moore. Alan Moore is a favorite writer of mine. And you, Senator, are no Alan Moore. :)

clay78
06-06-2003, 05:35 PM
Potatoe.

devin hyde
06-07-2003, 09:39 PM
I've found this to be the most interesting My Epic Journey yet. I've been thinking "do we even need an origin (at least in the first story arc)? Is "he turns invisible" any harder to believe than "he turns invisible because of this science experiment, or freak accident, or mutation he was born with..."?

Zeb Oswalt
06-09-2003, 03:45 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MattBrady:
<strong>


“We don’t want flashbacks,” she said.

Excuse me?

“We don’t want flashbacks,” she repeated.


(i]</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, darn. My Fire Bird comic started with a flash back as well. Maybe I should have sent a drawing like this.
<center><a href="http://69.26.135.131/images/cp/0008505-0003868.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://69.26.135.131/images/cp/0008505-0003868.jpg" "></a></center>

And I was hoping I was being different with the Flash back. Well, mine was more a memory with no PICS of the Flash back. But, oh well. I'm still hoping they'll expect the StoryI sentin.

drss
06-09-2003, 02:08 PM
Was it just a suggestion to help guide the writer? It seems more like the editor is insisting on the change.

I dont see how the story would benefit from having the origin first. In fact, I think in the case of Nowhere Man (and some of the concepts posted here), it works better not to have the origin first.

The examples and reasoning the editor gave is nothing less of laughable.

Spider-Man, Hulk, Avengers, Ultimate Spider-Man.

1. How old are the above mentioned books (aside from Ult Spidey)?

2. Am I confused? Or is Nowhere Man not supposed to be a super-hero book, like all of the above.

3. Ultimate Spider-Man, what a fine example. Again, I think I am confused. Same writer, different title: Bendis's Alias. I forgot.. Did he start with Jessica Jones's origin? I vaguely remember that he did not, though I am unsure. But hey, what do I know? I dont even work at Marvel, so I must be wrong.

4. The best of Marvel comics began with an origin? The best of Marvel comics involves super-heroes too. Trouble, from what is known for the time being, does not.

5. People here talk about rewriting. So at the end of the day, instead of ending up with many scripts with flash backs, we end up with many scripts with origins first. At the end of it all, we end up with many EPIC books that follow a certain form. Call it "The Best of Marvel Comics, As Seen from the Point of View on the Editor" form.

Milk goes well with coffee. But do you put milk in your beer? Some stories work well with the origins coming first. Some do not. It isnt only a matter of "tell this now or later", it isnt just the matter of sequence. The story itself changes if the sequence is changed. (Think about how you would be different if 2 very small bits of your DNA is rearranged). Marvel, as always, is absurd.

If I am a writier, I rather try and fail to submit to CrossGen, Oni or SLG. But then, I am not a writer. And Marvel IS the biggest of them all. Its a matter of seeing the script, your vision ruined, but out on the shelf, or not have it on the shelf. So your ideas either wont be seen, or its seen but altered in ways you may not like. That kind of sucks. Luck for me, I am just a casual comic reader.

Good luck to you all. May your work see the light of day.. and my 2.95

drss
06-09-2003, 02:42 PM
By the way.. how about The EPIC Journey done in the form of a comic for EPIC as the next project? Kind of like Fortune and Glory by Brian Bendis. It would be SO much more helpful to EPIC writers than Marville #7.