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View Full Version : Stuart Moore's A THOUSAND FLOWERS, part 17 - Revolutionary Road


MattBrady
05-06-2003, 09:58 AM
<center><a href="http://www.newsarama.com/Thousand_Flowers_index.htm"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/flowers/flowers_banner.jpg" width="475" height="75" border="0"></a></center>

<center>A THOUSAND FLOWERS</center><center>Comics, Pop Culture, and the World Outside</center><center>Installment 17</center><center>by Stuart Moore</center>

Revolutionary Road

Michael Lewis was a year ahead of me at Princeton, but I didn’t know him. (It’s a big school.) Lewis made his name as a writer with the 1989 bestseller liar’s Poker, a colorful account of his year spent on the Salomon Brothers trading floor in the greed-is-good mid-eighties. It’s a cracking read, full of characters like the crude, old-line traders who eat fried chicken by the bucket -- phones glued to their ears the whole time -- and the hot-shot new employees whose goal is to make fortunes quickly, so they can become known as Big Swinging Dicks.

Since then, Lewis has written books on Japan, the 1996 Presidential election, and (out this month) baseball, all with a sharp eye for detail and a classic reporter’s drive to find the real story hidden inside his topic. There’s something else, too, that unites his work: a sense, common in writers of my generation, that the world is moving fast and you have to keep up. To make sure you understand what’s driving something like the World Wide Web, which didn’t exist ten years ago and now informs virtually every business and creative act in our lives.

So it was natural that Lewis would turn to the net as a subject. His book The New New Thing (1999) profiled Jim Clark, the eccentric founder of Netscape and Silicon Graphics, in Clark’s efforts to build (a) a nationwide, for-profit, net-based medical-benefits network called Healtheon and (b) the world’s largest sailboat. While writing that book, Lewis saw another story: All over the world, young people were using the internet to enter domains that had formerly been closed off to people with advanced degrees and professional credentials. That story became his fascinating 2001 book, Next.

<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/flowers/nextcov.jpg" width="250" height="373" border="0" hspace="2" align="right">Like Lewis’s other books, Next paints a vivid picture of individuals caught up in a large social phenomenon. Jonathan Lebed, a New Jersey teenager who manipulated markets and got his entire school into heavy stock-trading. Marcus Arnold, a fifteen-year-old southern Californian who became a respected legal expert on AskMe.com -- and who took his duties very, very seriously. Daniel Sheldon, a working-class British teen who built a website and made himself into a file-sharing guru, all over a dial-up connection.

Throughout Next, Lewis points up the threat that these young enterpreneur/hackers posed to established institutions. Jonathan Lebed, for example, attracted the wrath of the SEC with his trading activities -- not because he was doing something large companies couldn’t, but because he exposed what they were doing: manipulating the markets. Marcus Arnold really did know enough about the law to give simple advice as well as the average attorney. (“After, like, watching so many TV shows about the law,” he says in the book, “it’s just like you know everything you need to know.” The book doesn’t lead us to doubt him.)

Comics went through a similar shift when the direct sales market opened up in the late ‘70s and early ‘80s. Suddenly comics were easy to publish; one person could put out a black-and-white book pretty handily, and a small company like First or Eclipse could handle color titles without much trouble.

I’ve discussed the big-alternative companies in <a href="http://www.newsarama.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=00003 4" target="_blank"> Installment 13</a>. But self-publishing also boomed at this time, and in a lot of ways it was an entirely separate phenomenon. Like the kids examined in Next, self-publishers were one- and two-man operations who often developed strong followings of their own.

There were precursors, but Dave Sim’s Cerbeus (1977) and Wendy & Richard Pini’s Elfquest (1978) really kicked off the self-publishing movement. The early Cerebus consisted mainly of (often hilarious) satire on comics and sword-and-sorcery topics, and Elfquest hit an immediate chord with fantasy prose fans and gamers. Both comics were labors of love, but they also became profitable -- at least enough so to support their creators. That was new.

As the big comics companies competed for the best of the new indy talents, self-publishing became less of a business option and more of a crusade. By 1995, Dave Sim regularly devoted a third of Cerbeus’ front covers to “Spirits of Independence Tour” ads for his own and other self-published books. Inside the book, Sim pushed his own stories back several pages to make room for an expanded editorial section called “The Big Picture,” which called for sweeping changes in the retail environment and comics in general. Sim’s general theme was that the comics industry was in trouble (1994-95 was when the speculator bubble burst) and that self-published books were the answer for readers, retailers, and creators. From his first column:

“Welcome to the War Room. Okay, here’s our situation: the goal is to replace the company-centered mentality with self-publishing. We are facing a much larger force. They are numerous but they don’t fight very well because, basically, they aren’t fighting for anything.”

<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/flowers/cerebus199.jpg" width="250" height="374" border="0" hspace="2" align="left">Sim had the great advantage of leading by example: By that point, he’d published nearly 200 consecutive issues of Cerbeus on a more-or-less monthly schedule. (The early issues were bi-monthly, and in later years he sometimes fell behind schedule, but always caught up, in some cases actually publishing on a two- or three-week schedule.) But not all self-publishers wanted total control of their properties above all else, or believed that, say, Wandering Star (a fine book) was inherently superior to Hate just because the former was self-published, while the latter happened to be published by Fantagraphics. Some of the high-profile self-publishers continued on their path; others took their books to publishing companies; still others dropped out of the game entirely. A few, like Jeff Smith, went to Image and then back again, making careful business decisions at each turn.

By 1997, in an introduction to the Cerebus Guide to Self-Publishing, Sim looked back on the tours with a different perspective: “In reviewing the raw first draught for this volume…I was amused by the shamelessness of my politicking. Shameless because, as my Legions of Critics have pointed out, I made it sound as if self-publishing were the land of milk and honey and all other cartooning venues were analogous to Dante’s inner circles of hell. Well, such is the nature of politics.”

Anyone who produces quality work and then puts himself on the line through self-publishing deserves respect. Anyone who sets a goal of 300 issues over twenty-seven years and then completes it, as Sim looks set to do within the next year, deserves enormous respect. Sim’s recent scribbling-in-the-attic Christian rants and misogynist crusading shouldn’t wipe out the great work he’s done, both in helping to carve out the direct market and, much more importantly, through the better Cerbeus books themselves.

But crusaders like that are rare -- very few lone wolves stay focused that way for an extended period of time. Next was written on the cusp of the dot-com collapse, and its conclusions are not, well, conclusive. At this writing, Jonathan Lebed is running for town council in his hometown of Cedar Grove, New Jersey, suggesting a shift in priorities toward politics. (He’s pretty young for that, too.) AskMe.com, where Marcus Arnold practiced law, imploded along with the dotcom collapse. Arnold has kept a pretty low profile since then.

Capitalist revolutions, whether they’re technological or market-driven, tend to lose steam somewhere along the line. There are three main reasons:

<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/flowers/indys.jpg" width="300" height="225" border="0" hspace="2" align="right"> (1) Rebels get distracted and move on, especially when faced with the financial instability of this kind of work. You know who Dave Sim and Wendy & Richard Pini are, and you might remember Martin Wagner (Hepcats). But do you know the names Greg Wadsworth (Ismet, Dog Avenger), Tom Stazer (Spaced), or Doug Gray (Eye Of Mongombo)? All their comics were vital and critically acclaimed in their time, but they didn’t find the Pinis’ fantasy-community popularity or Sim’s cult following, and the creators eventually packed up shop and went away. (Sim has kept Cerbeus going by keeping the operation extremely lean and, in recent years especially, very sharply focused on the comic book itself.)

(2) When you’re dependent on an emerging, shifting marketplace, things can go wrong in a hurry. The Direct Market has endured twenty-five years of gluts and busts, each of which sank several small publishers. The dizzying size of the Internet, and the struggle of search engines to keep up with it -- not to mention pay their own way as they go -- makes it another dicey business operation. One DM distributor going under, or a bad link in Google, can put you out of business if you’re operating close to the bone. Which leaves things open for…

(3) Big companies, who are desperate to keep up with the next big thing. (You don’t think Pepsi executives signed Britney Spears because they just loved her musical style, do you?) Their M.O.: Jump in and co-opt a business, often after the little guys have cleared the path and worked out the technical obstacles. And when DC decides to start Vertigo or Wal-Mart decides it’s finally time for a full-service website, they have the dual advantages of brand recognition and financial security (see #2).

The Internet’s been billed as the ultimate open marketplace -- a giant bazaar where everyone can post their opinions or hawk their goods, and the public will sort it all out. But at a certain size, that ideal just doesn’t pan out in practice. It’s too much work for consumers; they end up gravitating to either (a) an established big company whose name they know (see #3 above) or (b) an intermediary designed to act as a publisher or distributor, to make sense out of the chaos. And once you have that person in place -- an “aggregator of content,” as the 1999 net jargon went -- you have another mouth that needs to be fed. The same economic rules come into play that happen with traditional publishers (or the equivalent businesses), and if enough money is floating around, there’s a temptation for those aggregators to adopt the same old bad habits: developing their own internal bureaucracy, keeping too much money for themselves.

Revolutions do leave behind lasting changes, even if they’re not as far-reaching or apocalyptic as their proponents might have wanted. Today, self-publishing is a continuing, viable option in the comics field, though it’s often a scrabbling, money-losing proposition at first. A single person can set herself up as an authority on the web -- if she’s got what it takes to get herself noticed, and then follow through. That’s worth a lot.

It doesn’t mean, however, that DC Comics (or Wal-Mart) is going out of business. It just means they’ve got more competition. And the big companies still have strong advantages. It’s not a level playing field -- and it probably never will be.

But it is a bigger playing field, with more opportunities. And that’s good for everyone.

**

Stuart Moore has been a writer, a comics editor for Vertigo and Marvel Knights, a kitchen worker, a book editor, and the nighttime manager of the Lawrenceville, NJ Woolworth's curtain department. He has won the Will Eisner award for Best Editor 1996 and the Don Thompson Award for Favorite Editor 1999. Sadly, there’s no going back to Woolworth’s…but that hasn’t been a problem yet, because of…

My current comics work: Dark Horse’s Free Comic Book Day giveaway, ROCKET COMICS: IGNITE, featured a special 10-page stand-alone preview story of LONE, my entry into the new Rocket Comics line, along with two other great stories. More information at <a href="http://www.rocketcomics.net" target="_blank">http://www.rocketcomics.net</a> and <a href="http://www.newsarama.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000094" target="_blank">http://www.newsarama.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=2&t=000094</a> . Also: The beautiful trade paperback collection of ZENDRA: HEART OF FIRE, my epic science fiction series from Penny-Farthing Press, is out now; ask for it by name! And coming soon: announcements about projects from three other companies -- keep an eye on my message board at <a href="http://www.joequesada.com." target="_blank">http://www.joequesada.com.</a> See you in 14 days…

Troy Brownfield
05-06-2003, 10:39 AM
Best one yet.

TIP
05-06-2003, 11:37 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Anyone who produces quality work and then puts himself on the line through self-publishing deserves respect. Anyone who sets a goal of 300 issues over twenty-seven years and then completes it, as Sim looks set to do within the next year, deserves enormous respect. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Amen, brother.

Great article.
T

xdemon
05-06-2003, 12:41 PM
I remember reading Liar's Poker when it came out - it is an excellent read. And isn't Michael Lewis married to Tabitha Soren, the former MTV News Reporter?

Great column.

Simon DelMonte
05-06-2003, 02:01 PM
And yet, after these years, who gets the rights to reprint Elfquest (albeit not the rights to the characters thmeselves)? DC.

Not opposed to that at all. I like that DC plays this way. But it is ironic.

OM
05-06-2003, 04:06 PM
The following is a public service to those of us who like Stuart's writing and this column in particular:

[whining_marvel_zombie_mode=on]

[WHINE!] "Stuart Moore, I want my five minutes I wasteded of my life on your shitty babble back! Excelsior!!!"

[whining_marvel_zombie_mode=off]

...There, that should defuse the little bastards.

...Very, <u>very</u> good article, Stuart! And the mention of Hepcats brings back memories of Martin, and having been there when many of the plot threads of the original Daily Texan strips saw their genesis, and especially having been indirectly invovled when Martin met Tiff - back then, she wasn't a total psychotic man-user, but that's another story. The guy's always had talent, and that some major indy publisher didn't try to give Hepcats a new home and help keep Martin afloat is really more a damnation of the entire indy market. Martin had a lot more to say about Joey, Gunther, Arnie and even Tif...er...Erica. It's a fucking shame the market won't allow it to come about.

...I think I'll go dig up my copy of Yo and take a trip back to the good old days, when Martin shocked the hell out of everybody by showing an octopus drunk in a bar consoling Joey over his fucked love life, and Arnie discovering you don't tip a stripper with quarters.

Joe Keatinge
05-06-2003, 04:28 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by OM:
<strong>The guy's always had talent, and that some major indy publisher didn't try to give Hepcats a new home and help keep Martin afloat is really more a damnation of the entire indy market. Martin had a lot more to say about Joey, Gunther, Arnie and even Tif...er...Erica. It's a fucking shame the market won't allow it to come about.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Well, you sort of got your wish, true believer! Antarctic Press picked up Hepcats for awhile until Martin MYSTERIOUSLY disappeared! That's right, no one has any idea what happened to him after he did some new issues for Antarctic. I even asked some guys who were at an Antarctic panel at San Diego a few years back and NO ONE knows. Very strange stuff.

Anyway, yeah, there you go. Hepcats is awesome.

-Joe Keatinge

MattBrady
05-06-2003, 04:31 PM
tracking Martin down and catching up with him has been the Holy Grail for more than one comics newsguy/gal - consequently, there are more than a few legends about where he is and/or what happened to him.

MattB

Velvet Glove
05-06-2003, 05:59 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MattBrady:
<strong>tracking Martin down and catching up with him has been the Holy Grail for more than one comics newsguy/gal - consequently, there are more than a few legends about where he is and/or what happened to him.

MattB</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Add me to that list. It really disappointed me when he gave up and went away, I wonder if he's working at a Taco Bell or running a dotcom or what these days? A sad loss to the industry, anyway you look at it...

MichaelCoughlin
05-06-2003, 06:25 PM
Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe, JUST MAYBE, Martin never existed?!?!?!? <cue 'Twilight Zone' music>

I think regardless of whether it's self published, indy published, big boys published, WHOEVER puts it out there, as long as it's good, I don't give a crap where it came from.

Todd VerBeek
05-06-2003, 10:42 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Joe Keatinge:
<strong>Well, you sort of got your wish, true believer! Antarctic Press picked up Hepcats for awhile until Martin MYSTERIOUSLY disappeared! That's right, no one has any idea what happened to him after he did some new issues for Antarctic.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He burned out. I don't know him and have no inside information, so I don't know the WHY of it. But based on reports of what happened, I'd say Wagner simply lost the will to keep at it. Despite the efforts of Antarctic to take over the publishing work, and probably a sincere effort on Martin's part to get back to producing new material, he just couldn't do it anymore. And faced with the sheer volume of people he'd let down one (or several) too many times, the only solution for him was to leave the field. Unfortunate for everyone.

OM
05-07-2003, 03:25 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Todd VerBeek:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Joe Keatinge:
<strong>Well, you sort of got your wish, true believer! Antarctic Press picked up Hepcats for awhile until Martin MYSTERIOUSLY disappeared! That's right, no one has any idea what happened to him after he did some new issues for Antarctic.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">He burned out. I don't know him and have no inside information, so I don't know the WHY of it. But based on reports of what happened, I'd say Wagner simply lost the will to keep at it. Despite the efforts of Antarctic to take over the publishing work, and probably a sincere effort on Martin's part to get back to producing new material, he just couldn't do it anymore. And faced with the sheer volume of people he'd let down one (or several) too many times, the only solution for him was to leave the field. Unfortunate for everyone.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">...Burnout's a good word as any to describe what happened. Last I'd heard from Martin was back in '99, when we'd exchanged some e-mails regarding Hepcats discontinuation for good. His e-mail address went dead shortly after that, and I've lost contact since. A mutual friend hasn't heard from him in a longer period, but AFAIK he's still out there pursuing a different career.

...IMHO, without going into all the personal details that are more Martin's business than ours any more than Martin himself has made public, what probably caused the burnout more than anything else was that Hepcats had become all but an autobiographical confessional of Martin's own life at the time.

...Arnie was, is, and always will be Martin himself, right down to the befuddled expressions. Erika was, is, and always will be Tiff had Tiff not...well, let's just say she went fairly whacko, pulled some stereotypical stupid stripper tricks, and leave it at that. And since Hepcats had become the story of Arnie and Erika dealing with Erika's sordid and tragic past(*), and Martin and Tiff had their really messy breakup, odds are really strong that working on a plotline that had become an expression of his own life probably became too much to deal with. Sometimes, the shit gets so strong that you simply quit shoveling it, and just walk away to let it rot.

...And I share his pain, too. I knew Tiff a while before I met Martin, and was there when the two of them met. Tiff was also a good friend back then, and when the two of them got together we all got a big kick out of seeing Arnie and Erika getting the limelight in the strip(**), and everyone at the stripclub Tiff worked at all trying to figure out who was the inspiration for the one Erika set Joey up with who burned him good. What they had looked really good at the start, and when that all fell apart it was just as much a shock to everyone who knew them as it was to every Hepcats fan. It was, although Martin would probably argue against it, as if Wendy left Richard.

...Either way, I miss the book. As I said, I pulled Yo off the bookshelf, and plan to read through it again before I hit the sack, and remember the times dealing blackjack and harassing Martin about the illogic of an anthropomorphic longhorn marrying an anthropomorphic lioness, and then getting reminded that Scott Shaw! had already done this over in Captain Carrot, and that Walt Kelly had done it previously with Pogo and Hepzibah, and what was good for Walt was good enough for him :-P

(*) To answer the question as to whether or not Snowblind was truly an adaptation of Tiff's own story, I know part of the answer is "no", while the other part is "does it matter?"

(**) Much to the chagrin of a couple of feminazis who were on the Deadly Texan staff back then, who were so anti-stripclub that had they been in the Editorials section instead of ruining the Entertainment section, Hepcats would have been canned the second Erika showed up. These same two skanks also bitched and screamed when Sam Hurt had Sally become a stripper in a dream sequence in Eyebeam a couple of years earlier. In both cases, the EIC's told them to stuff it, thankfully enough.

Nat Gertler
05-07-2003, 02:37 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">
<strong>But do you know the names Greg Wadsworth (Ismet, Dog Avenger), Tom Stazer (Spaced), or Doug Gray (Eye Of Mongombo)?</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Kind of hard to put some on this list as self-publishing revolutionaries; with "Anthony Smith and Ken Donnell [...] publishing, promoting and printing the first four issues" (Stazer's words) and Eclipse being the key publisher for issues 10-13, it's hard to put Stazer as a revolutionary and dedicated self-pubber; he then went on to do a similar amount of pages of Lionheart for Fantagraphics... who were also the key publishers for Eye Of Mongombo.

Todd VerBeek
05-08-2003, 08:52 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by OM:
<strong>His e-mail address went dead shortly after that, and I've lost contact since. A mutual friend hasn't heard from him in a longer period, but AFAIK he's still out there pursuing a different career.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I have a fairly plausible tip as to his whereabouts, but it could easily be a case of mistaken identity. Out of respect for his privacy, I'm not going to pursue it and I'm definitely not going to publish it or give it to the media (sorry, Matt), but OM, if you're interested in inquiring as a friend, contact me at the address on my web site:

Stuart Moore
05-08-2003, 01:43 PM
Nat: I'll stand by listing Stazer -- the later SPACED issues were distributed by Eclipse and bore the company's logo, but they were still published by him. I originally had a note qualifying the listing of EYE OF MONGOMBO, but it detracted from the point of the paragraph, so I deleted it. You're right, of course -- but I think the point about financial stresses still holds.

OM: Fascinating about Martin Wagner. That makes a lot of sense; the storyline was just heating up, and all the fits & starts about him relaunching the book never quite added up. If the story was just too close to his changing life-situation, that explains why he walked away from it. A real shame -- the setup was great.

Best,
Stuart

Elayne Riggs
05-08-2003, 02:40 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Stuart Moore writes:
<strong>Sim’s recent scribbling-in-the-attic Christian rants and misogynist crusading shouldn’t wipe out the great work he’s done...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And yet, they do. Such is the nature of self-sabotage.

- Elayne

OM
05-08-2003, 03:11 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Elayne Riggs:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Stuart Moore writes:
<strong>Sim’s recent scribbling-in-the-attic Christian rants and misogynist crusading shouldn’t wipe out the great work he’s done...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And yet, they do. Such is the nature of self-sabotage.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">...The one that I thought was self-sabotage was the issue where he had "Jules Pfeiffer" do a monolog on the Moon that was in essence a scathing denoument of the Space Race. Space exploration - both manned and unmanned - is a very important part of my life, and I tend to get pretty irate when Mankind's greatest achievement is slammed mercilessly and with total malice aforethought.

...The month after the issue hit the stands, Sim was skedded to be a guest at one of Larry Langford's local Comic Cons. I'd fully intended to rake him over the coals for this one, but Langford convinced me to simply debate the issue with him and not lose my cool. Turns out there was a reason for this, as Sim had reportedly been nailed to the wall for this issue by a lot of pro-NASA fans of his, and had already come to some conclusion that while he was expressing his beliefs, the way they were expressed - absolute cynicism via "Jules Pfeiffer" - was not the way he should have gone about it. After about three hours of talking with him about it - during which he was also doing a really nice sketch of Cerebus for a commission job that Gil Kane was going to ink of all things! - I came out of this with a great deal of respect for Sim. He sticks by his guns, even when he's wrong, but at least he's not so full of himself that he can't accept it when he is wrong.

Of course, respect /= buying Cerebus. Outside of borrowing the first two phone books, I've not picked up an issue since...

hjcho
05-08-2003, 03:17 PM
Hey Stuart - when did you graduate from Princeton? I was class of '88 (15th this year - am I really that old?) Did you work on Tiger Mag? There seems to be a pretty decent representation of Tiger Mag alums in the biz past and present (including some guy named Lee....)

Great column!

Todd VerBeek
05-08-2003, 04:02 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Elayne Riggs:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Stuart Moore writes:
<strong>Sim's recent scribbling-in-the-attic Christian rants and misogynist crusading shouldn't wipe out the great work he's done...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And yet, they do. Such is the nature of self-sabotage.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nonsense.

Sim's insanity may taint his work, and knowing about his tirades may prevent one from enjoying his work. And who knows, maybe he'll also die "alone and unloved" because of it. But the works he's done (specifically the self-publishing example and the good stretches of Cerebus, as Stuart cited) still stand, regardless. And because of those, Sim is not going to die "unmourned".

Look Elayne, neither you nor I is a stranger to self-sabotage, but despite each of us doing a cracker-jack job of alienating people and closing off future opportunties, no one's gone so far as to declare that anything either of us has accomplished Didn't Happen. They couldn't even if we asked them to. You can attempt revisionist history, but there are no actual retcons in the real world.

P.S. Anyone interested in hiring an out-of-work temperamental technological and creative genius*, drop me a line. :)

*documentation available

Elayne Riggs
05-10-2003, 02:04 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Todd VerBeek:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Elayne Riggs:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Stuart Moore writes:
<strong>Sim's recent scribbling-in-the-attic Christian rants and misogynist crusading shouldn't wipe out the great work he's done...</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">And yet, they do. Such is the nature of self-sabotage.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Nonsense.

Sim's insanity may taint his work, and knowing about his tirades may prevent one from enjoying his work. And who knows, maybe he'll also die "alone and unloved" because of it. But the works he's done (specifically the self-publishing example and the good stretches of Cerebus, as Stuart cited) still stand, regardless. And because of those, Sim is not going to die "unmourned".</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Sorry, I've been away from message boards and forgot for a minute the need to put in qualifiers. Please add the words "for many" between "yet" and "they." There, that should take care of it.

- Elayne