MY EPIC JOURNEY 1: BEGINNINGS [Archive]

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MattBrady

05-05-2003, 02:02 PM

<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/sangiacomo/Epic2.jpg" width="200" height="304" align="right">by Mike Sangiacomo

It all started with a short, late November, e-mail from Mike Doran, the latest publicity poohba for Marvel and my former editor at Newsarama. It said something about Marvel having a “modest proposal” for a few of us loud-mouth critic types. Since I’ve been telling Marvel, DC, Image and the rest how to run their business in weekly newspaper and Internet columns for 10 years, I qualified.

Of course I was interested.

The details came in December in an e-mail from an assistant editor named Stephanie Moore. She’s new to comics and was as excited as we peons were.

The modest proposal was simple: Marvel wants to relaunch its Epic line, but with a difference. Epic will mostly use promising, new talent to produce many different kinds of comics. They were open to pretty much anything that sounded good.

Want to bring back Boomerang as the host of an Australian reality show? Sure. New characters? Fine, fine. Old characters in new settings? Okay.

Romance comics, funny comics, reality comics. Yep, yep and yep.

The key phrase here is “open to the ideas”, that doesn’t mean they will produce the book. But Marvel is willing to listen to whatever ideas people have, whether they be crackpot or crafty.

That may not sound like a big deal, but it is.

Consider that DC has closed its doors to submissions by unknowns several years ago when a guy from Pittsburgh claimed DC stole an idea of his. Yeah, sure, like DC needs to steal ideas from a guy in Pittsburgh. No matter, he sued. The AOL/Time/Warner suits said in order to avoid this happening again, DC will not even look at unsolicited scripts. It was the official adoption of the “Don’t call us, we’ll call you” policy. Marvel editors are very busy people. They were more open to proposals, but it was a tough sell because they did not have the time to care and nurture untried talent.

I don’t know how the process works at the other companies like Archie, Image or Dark Horse, but it’s never easy. CrossGen Comics likes to have its creators live and work in house in Florida. And here was Stephanie Moore, talking to critics that have been shouting from the periphery of the industry, and saying, “So kid, you wanna write a comic?”

My first reaction was “Nah.” I’ve grown too fond of comics to write them.

I could never be as good as Alan Moore, Neil Gaiman, Geoff Johns, Kurt Busiek, Mark Waid, Peter David, J.Michael Straczynski, Brian Bendis and a hundred other guys. I can barely spell Straczynski. Beyond that, there are at least another 100 writers out there nowhere near as good as those guys.

Then there is the creativity problem. Sure, anyone can come up with one or two good X-Men stories, but the guy who can do story after story, month after month, is The Man. And I’m a very busy guy. Besides covering the state of Ohio for its biggest daily newspaper, The Plain Dealer, I was on “terrorist alert” for the newspaper. This meant that if terrorists blew up something, I was on the first plane or train to the site. I still have a packed suitcase in my car.

If that was not enough, I review about 10 audiobooks a month for the Plain Dealer and <a href="http://www.audiobookstoday.com" target="_blank">www.audiobookstoday.com</a> and write freelance music reviews.

How would I possibly have time to write a comic?

Then again, how could I not try?

The big problem was whenever I tried to create my own adventures for my favorite titles like Starman, JSA, Avengers, Spider-Man and others it was inferior to the stories I was reading. I resented my own intrusion. It reminded me of a wonderful college professor who used to say, “I never learned anything listening to myself speak.”

So, if I was going to try to write a comic, it would not be one of the A list characters. Of course it might be fun to write an Ant-Man story, or a Bucky solo story set in 1943, or the green Vision from that time.

Hmmm.

Still, I decided that all the characters in Marvel’s warehouse have been done, for better or worse. What would be the point of bringing back the Two-Gun Kid unless I was going to do something stupid like turn him gay?

And Marvel would never go for that.

But as sure as I was that I would never have a chance of coming up with something new and different, I knew I would try. On my drive home from work, the name of the unborn character hit
me:
<center><a href="http://www.newsarama.com/sangiacomo/Nowhere_Man.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/sangiacomo/Nowhere_Man_t.jpg" width="350" height="108" border="0" alt="tentative logo design for Nowhere Man"></a></center>

(logo design by Mitchell Breitweiser)

To be continued…

Mike Sangiacomo, a freelance writer for Newsarama and other sources, was invited to share his experiences with pitching to Epic by Newsarama's editor, Matt Brady, in the interest of keeping readers well informed. Brady advises Newsarama readers that he is aware of the inherent conflict of interest presented by journalists working for a publisher they cover. Sangiacomo’s regular column Journey Into Comics has and will continue to be found in the Opinion/Editorial section of Newsarama. Brady has not, nor does he plan to pitch to Epic himself.

05-05-2003, 02:20 PM

You may have to change it.

Don't you hate it when your mind plays tricks on you and you think you've come up with something original but it only means that you're remembering something really old and aren't even aware of it?

<a href="http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/ShowMainServlet/showid-2102/" target="_blank">http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/ShowMainServlet/showid-2102/</a>

El Argentino

05-05-2003, 02:21 PM

Interesting....my only question is ..When we can start to send ours great art & ideas to Epic!!!!!!!!!

:confused: :confused:

Mr. Special ED

05-05-2003, 02:25 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Still, I decided that all the characters in Marvel’s warehouse have been done, for better or worse. What would be the point of bringing back the Two-Gun Kid unless I was going to do something stupid like turn him gay?

And Marvel would never go for that.<hr /></blockquote>Lol - I love it.

Tom Evans

05-05-2003, 03:17 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ManofTheAtom:
You may have to change it.

Don't you hate it when your mind plays tricks on you and you think you've come up with something original but it only means that you're remembering something really old and aren't even aware of it?

<a href="http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/ShowMainServlet/showid-2102/" target="_blank">http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/ShowMainServlet/showid-2102/</a><hr /></blockquote>aha, but there is Alias the cool comic by Bendis and Alias the cool tv program too.

anyway its also the title of a Beatles song. lets wait and see what the take is!

MindTricked

05-05-2003, 03:24 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ManofTheAtom:
You may have to change it.

Don't you hate it when your mind plays tricks on you and you think you've come up with something original but it only means that you're remembering something really old and aren't even aware of it?

<a href="http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/ShowMainServlet/showid-2102/" target="_blank">http://www.tvtome.com/tvtome/servlet/ShowMainServlet/showid-2102/</a><hr /></blockquote>Wow - I used to watch that show! It got cancelled and left me hanging. Bah. Thanks for the bad memories, man! *shakes fist* <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

05-05-2003, 03:46 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Tom Evans:
aha, but there is Alias the cool comic by Bendis and Alias the cool tv program too.

anyway its also the title of a Beatles song. lets wait and see what the take is!<hr /></blockquote>True.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MindTricked:
Wow - I used to watch that show! It got cancelled and left me hanging. Bah. Thanks for the bad memories, man! *shakes fist* <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>Heh, I only became aware of that show through TV Tome. It sounds really good, wish I could have seen it.

Sounds like Two, Pretender or John Doe.

mike sangiacomo

05-05-2003, 04:27 PM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by ManofTheAtom:
[QB]You may have to change it.

So why would I have to change the name? Obviously, I knew about the Beatles song and also about the short-lived Bruce Greenwood television show. I don't think it will be a problem, but Marvel's legal folks will know better.
M

Kabukiman

05-05-2003, 04:28 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by ManofTheAtom:
Heh, I only became aware of that show through TV Tome. It sounds really good, wish I could have seen it.

Sounds like Two, Pretender or John Doe.<hr /></blockquote>It was a pretty good show. Came out during the wave of X-Files clones and for me it was head and shoulders above the others. Plus it starred Bruce Greenwood who is a great actor.

This, along with American Gothic and Wiseguy are the three TV shows I would KILL to have on DVD.

mitchell breitweiser

05-05-2003, 04:29 PM

Congrats Mike! I am looking foreward to the rest of these articles.
(nice logo, too :cool: )

Best

apoehler

05-05-2003, 04:44 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mike sangiacomo:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ManofTheAtom:
[QB]You may have to change it.

So why would I have to change the name? Obviously, I knew about the Beatles song and also about the short-lived Bruce Greenwood television show. I don't think it will be a problem, but Marvel's legal folks will know better.
M<hr /></blockquote>Well, obviously, because Marvel's had to do the same thing before. Remember when they had to change the names of those two books with the same name as TV series: The Avengers and The Defenders? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

minmin

05-05-2003, 04:54 PM

why is the color scheme of the logos similar?

<img src="http://www.tvtome.com/images/shows/2/1/2-2743.jpg" alt=" - " />

<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/sangiacomo/Nowhere_Man_t.jpg" alt=" - " />

not that it's a big deal.. i actually can't wait to read the next installment...

this is a great idea for a column/feature..

Jerry L

05-05-2003, 05:05 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by El Argentino:
Interesting....my only question is ..When we can start to send ours great art & ideas to Epic!!!!!!!!!

:confused: :confused: <hr /></blockquote>I second that. My artwork's collecting dust. :)

Jun Kim

05-05-2003, 05:10 PM

Congratulations, Mike.

Hopefully, your journal will be an encouragement and a valuable insight to many other would-be creators that may be working with EPiC.

Thanks for taking time out in your busy schedule to clue us in this process.

SpyGuy

05-05-2003, 05:12 PM

I'm still waiting for the "Writer's Work For Hire Agreement" form to be posted on the site...In the meantime, I'm still working on my script and hope to have it finished by the end of the week.

Simon DelMonte

05-05-2003, 05:54 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MindTricked:
Wow - I used to watch that show! It got cancelled and left me hanging. Bah. Thanks for the bad memories, man! *shakes fist* <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> [/QB]<hr /></blockquote>Oh, it turns out that he was really John Doe. :)

Heidi MacDonald

05-05-2003, 06:07 PM

Heh, see...I KNEW you were gonna write about this!

--heidi

Tom Daylight

05-05-2003, 08:14 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by apoehler:
Well, obviously, because Marvel's had to do the same thing before. Remember when they had to change the names of those two books with the same name as TV series: The Avengers and The Defenders? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" /> <hr /></blockquote>Or ALIAS :)

Todd VerBeek

05-05-2003, 08:52 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mike sangiacomo:
So why would I have to change the name? Obviously, I knew about the Beatles song and also about the short-lived Bruce Greenwood television show. I don't think it will be a problem, but Marvel's legal folks will know better.
M<hr /></blockquote>Quickie amateur legal opinion: As long as the concept is sufficiently distinct (i.e. no copyright issues), and no comics have been published by anyone else under that name in recent memory (i.e. no trademark conflict), there shouldn't be a problem.

In fact, I just did a trademark search for "nowhere man", and the only registration - a dead one - was filed by... Marvel Entertainment, 10 years ago.

Cheers, Todd
(not a lawyer, but scored better than 90% of the people who've taken the LSAT)

Jason A. Quest

05-05-2003, 09:07 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by SpyGuy:
I'm still waiting for the "Writer's Work For Hire Agreement" form to be posted on the site...In the meantime, I'm still working on my script and hope to have it finished by the end of the week.<hr /></blockquote>My scripts fer #1-2 are already done. I'm holding out for the Creator-owned form. Prolly have my whole 12-ish maxi-series scripted w/ pencil breakdowns finished by the time THAT shows up.

mike sangiacomo

05-05-2003, 09:09 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Heidi MacDonald:
Heh, see...I KNEW you were gonna write about this!

--heidi<hr /></blockquote>Funny, neither Matt nor had any thoughts about a blog until you asked the question at the press conference. Matt later called me and said, "hey, Heidi had a great idea." Which you did. I didn't even know what a "blog" was.
Thanks!
M

mike sangiacomo

05-05-2003, 09:17 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mitchell breitweiser:
Congrats Mike! I am looking foreward to the rest of these articles.
(nice logo, too :cool: )

Best<hr /></blockquote>Hey everyone, welcome Mitch. The logo was his creation. His credit got knocked off, but should be added any minute now. You'll learn about Mitch and another artist named Jun Kim (who also has a message on this board) later in the column. Samples of their work will also be posted.
M

gren99

05-05-2003, 09:21 PM

to my knowledge, 'alias' the comic preceded 'alias' the TV series (but only just barely -- both came out in late 2001, if i recall), which means the TV series wouldn't really have much room to gripe.

mike is right that it's ultimately down to whatever the legal department has to say on the matter because realistically, it's a matter of how likely the TV producers in this case are likely to:

a. be aware of comic books
b. try to enforce and copyrights they might have
and
c. care what happens with the rights of a show that flopped on UPN, fer chrissake.

my guess is that it's likely not gonna be a big deal.

BenXpawn

05-05-2003, 09:34 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Heidi MacDonald:
Heh, see...I KNEW you were gonna write about this!

--heidi<hr /></blockquote>Our rumour guy mentioned about this in his mcolumn this week :D

lil bad boy

05-05-2003, 09:44 PM

This is how trademark works: a name has to be unique within its field. Television and comic books are two entirely different fields. That's why if Marvel made an Avengers movie, they'd have to call it something else. That's why the comic book based upon the Alias tv show is called Agent Bristow: Alias. In both cases, someone else has prior claim within the field. It's apples and oranges, really.

Todd VerBeek

05-05-2003, 10:03 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by gren99:
it's a matter of how likely the TV producers in this case are likely to:
a. be aware of comic books
b. try to enforce and copyrights they might have
and
c. care what happens with the rights of a show that flopped on UPN, fer chrissake.
<hr /></blockquote>I think you're getting your legal concepts mixed up. Unless Mike ripped off the defining traits of the character, the situation, or the plot from the McCartney & Lennon song, or from this TV show of the same name, there's no copyright issue involved. You can't copyright a name.

Names are a trademark issue, and that would only come into play here if there's a reasonable likelihood of someone getting this product sold under the "Nowhere Man" name confused with someone else's product. It's obviously not John & Paul's, and not the TV people's... and neither of those are comics anyway, and that makes a big difference at the Patent & Trademark Office.

So the hypothetical ignorance or apathy of the TV producers isn't even a factor. All you need to worry about is whether they're stupid... enough to think they'd have a case. :)

D.J. Coffman is your daddy

05-06-2003, 12:54 AM

This all sounds very interesting. I cant wait to see how it all goes down... Good luck with it Mike! I'm sure you'll hit it out of the park--

About the legal junk stuff, Bah! It's no where near enough similar...

And some guy from Pittsburgh sued DC??? Wha?? That stinks--that makes Pittsburgh stink worse now. Tell me where he lives so I can go thank him for ruining submissions at DC for aspiring folks......ah, but something tells me DC will be opening their doors soon too... they'd better do something before Marvel leaves them on the bottom of the shoes of the comic industry along with the gum.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Rich Johnston

05-06-2003, 03:53 AM

For an earlier version of this...

No, sorry, just couldn't help it. Old habit... 8-)

JimHughs4

05-06-2003, 09:15 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Rich Johnston:
For an earlier version of this...

No, sorry, just couldn't help it. Old habit... 8-)<hr /></blockquote>LOL :D

MattBrady

05-06-2003, 09:45 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Rich Johnston:
For an earlier version of this...<hr /></blockquote>It really does show the man behind the curtain a little when you consider I told you about this in an effort to promote the column elswhere, Rich.

People using your column for self-promotion? {gasp!} :)

MattB

Jason Durall

05-06-2003, 10:37 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by lil bad boy:
This is how trademark works: a name has to be unique within its field. Television and comic books are two entirely different fields. That's why if Marvel made an Avengers movie, they'd have to call it something else. That's why the comic book based upon the Alias tv show is called Agent Bristow: Alias. In both cases, someone else has prior claim within the field. It's apples and oranges, really.<hr /></blockquote>True.

However, no one has pointed out that Grant Morrison created a character named Nowhere Man in his run on Doom Patrol. For those who don't remember, it was Mr. Morden, transformed into the non-entity known as Mr. Nobody the Nowhere Man, who led the Brotherhood of Dada.

Since that character did appear in comics, I wonder if there's a potential problem, especially since it was in a DC comic.

kossori

05-06-2003, 11:59 AM

Hmmm... what if...
What if the whole epic thing is just a gimmick to attract alternative readers and play on the hopes of the "everyman" to get more books out there that (because of the low print run) will be instant sell-outs?

My guess is that Marvel won't even open their doors to the reader-writers (us) until after they've already got their schedule full of comic industry people. Either established writers and artists to sell the books (which will have low print runs) or comics industry journalists (to get free publicity in a kind of Real World way).

I've been thinking of ideas and working on some stuff, but as each week goes by, I get more discouraged.

Heidi MacDonald

05-06-2003, 01:16 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by mike sangiacomo:
Funny, neither Matt nor had any thoughts about a blog until you asked the question at the press conference. Matt later called me and said, "hey, Heidi had a great idea." Which you did. I didn't even know what a "blog" was.
Thanks!
M<hr /></blockquote>I guess I'm still an editor at heart.

manosx

05-06-2003, 01:59 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by kossori:
Hmmm... what if...
What if the whole epic thing is just a gimmick to attract alternative readers and play on the hopes of the "everyman" to get more books out there that (because of the low print run) will be instant sell-outs?

My guess is that Marvel won't even open their doors to the reader-writers (us) until after they've already got their schedule full of comic industry people. Either established writers and artists to sell the books (which will have low print runs) or comics industry journalists (to get free publicity in a kind of Real World way).

I've been thinking of ideas and working on some stuff, but as each week goes by, I get more discouraged.<hr /></blockquote>Wow..how many people can you insult in 1 post!!
You insulted the Marvel people who came up with this idea, the Marvel people who will be sifting through proposals, Jemas and Joe Q. for promoting it, Mike for doing an article about it, and every person working on a proposal all in one post!!!!! Congratulations, that might be a record!!!!!!!!

Karl V

05-06-2003, 04:29 PM

Interesting. We could almost make another section of the board with similar stories from other people who are attempting or have gotten to Epic.

kossori

05-06-2003, 05:31 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by manosx:
 Wow..how many people can you insult in 1 post!!
You insulted the Marvel people who came up with this idea, the Marvel people who will be sifting through proposals, Jemas and Joe Q. for promoting it, Mike for doing an article about it, and every person working on a proposal all in one post!!!!! Congratulations, that might be a record!!!!!!!!<hr /></blockquote>I'm just looking at this thru the small-presser's point of view.
I didn't mean to insult anyone, just to show how disgruntled I am becoming. I'm sure if you ask any other person who is writing proposals (like me) or have already written proposals you'll find they have similar feelings.
It's just that we're very skeptical. The worst that could happen is that Marvel will change their minds about the whole idea before they open the doors. They said recently that they have their schedule lined up until the next year already. That gives them plenty of time to test the waters.

If anything, it's gotten me off my butt and writing. I've already written and submitted two stories to an independent publisher.

mike sangiacomo

05-06-2003, 05:32 PM

"However, no one has pointed out that Grant Morrison created a character named Nowhere Man in his run on Doom Patrol. For those who don't remember, it was Mr. Morden, transformed into the non-entity known as Mr. Nobody the Nowhere Man, who led the Brotherhood of Dada"
Mike here:
I rememebered the character, looked up the old issues but only saw him referred to as Mr Nobody. I'm not a lawyer, but it sounds like a different name to me. Any idea what issue had him called Nowhere Man?
M

kossori

05-06-2003, 05:41 PM

I'm pretty sure Nowhere Man is usable. The only thing that comes close is the TV show and I believe that as long as it has a different concept than the show, it'll be fine. Just like the Alias and Avengers issues.

And Alias is a close one, considering they both have a solo female lead. But since one is a double agent and the other is a private investigator... and the word "alias" ia an actual webster's word, like "brick" or "house" (and I'm not sure if anyone can copyright those)... it sounds safe to me...

Todd VerBeek

05-06-2003, 10:42 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Jason Durall:
However, no one has pointed out that Grant Morrison created a character named Nowhere Man in his run on Doom Patrol. For those who don't remember, it was Mr. Morden, transformed into the non-entity known as Mr. Nobody the Nowhere Man, who led the Brotherhood of Dada.

Since that character did appear in comics, I wonder if there's a potential problem, especially since it was in a DC comic.<hr /></blockquote>Still not an issue, because the series was called "Doom Patrol" no "Nowhere Man". Trademark law is only about packaging and marketing; it has nothing to do with content. So as a rule of thumb for comics: If it isn't on the cover, it can't be a trademark.

This means that just because a character called "Nowhere Man" might have appeared inside issues of "Doom Patrol", that doesn't (by itself) give DC any trademark rights to the name, any more than "Captain Marvel" appearing in "Power of Shazam" gives them any trademark rights to that name.

So it's still just a copyright question: Is this "Nowhere Man" character a direct rip-off of that "Nowhere Man" character? If not, there's no problem.

Cheers, Todd (who's been rewatching "Babylon 5" on tape lately, and relishing Ed Wasser's portrayal of JMS's "Mr. Morden" character)

Todd VerBeek

05-06-2003, 11:05 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by kossori:
and the word "alias" ia an actual webster's word, like "brick" or "house" (and I'm not sure if anyone can copyright those)... it sounds safe to me...<hr /></blockquote>You can't copyright any name, whether it's a word in a dictionary or not. If you could copyright a word, then people would have to ask you for permission just to type it, which would be absurd. Copyright only applies to the creative expression of an idea, like a painting or a song or a fictional character.

What you're probably thinking about is trademark. A trademark that consists of just a single standard-English word is going to be shaky, though it has been done when the commercial usage of the word is distinctive enough. (e.g. "ford" is a standard-English word, but it's so strongly associated with Henry's car company that it works.) But if it's a completely new word or phrase with strong brand recognition, it'll be a more solid trademark... which is why my hometown snack maker calls their delicious product "Cheeze Kurls", and why you'll find so many lame misspellings in modern superhero names: it makes them easier to trademark effectively.

Jason A. Quest

05-07-2003, 12:01 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by kossori:
If anything, it's gotten me off my butt and writing. I've already written and submitted two stories to an independent publisher.<hr /></blockquote>I started wrting my series figuring I'd draw it and publish it myself online and I figure I'll prolly end up doing that anyway, but maybe hire an inker. Either Marvel wont get their act together or they wont dare touch what I'm doing or whatever. If they bite that's just a bonus. Anyone counting on Marvel to publish their stuff needs a PLAN B.

DanLTaylor

05-07-2003, 01:15 AM

Mike -

Very cool. I look forward to each weekly installment. Hopefully, I'll have an "Epic" tale to tell as well.