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View Full Version : JiC: ARCHIE/MLJ's RETURN TO SUPERHEROES - KINDA


MattBrady
05-05-2003, 07:03 AM
<a href="http://www.newsarama.com/Other_Publishers/jackpot01.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/Other_Publishers/jackpot01_t.jpg" width="200" height="283" align="right" border="0"></a>by Mike Sangiacomo

The people at Archie Comics plan to publish more high quality collections of their difficult-to-find superhero comics of the 1940s, but don’t get the wrong idea - it’s a labor of love, not money.

Archie Comics is working on the second collection of adventures of Golden Age heroes including Steel Sterling, The Hangman and The Black Hood, but it won’t be out before next year.

The only new superhero collection that will be out this year will be The Mighty Crusaders, which is not even from the Golden Age, but the Silver Age. It will ship Nov. 4 for $10.95 and will include the first appearances of the team from Fly-Man #31, 32 and #33 and The Mighty Crusaders #1. The stories were mostly written by Superman creator Jerry Siegel (though uncredited) and drawn by Paul Reinman.

More on the Crusaders later.

The folks at Archie want to open the vaults and re-package their huge collection of Golden Age material, but it’s expensive, time-consuming, destructive and might not sell all that well.

“Look, the Shield book - which compiles the Golden Age adventures of the nation’s first patriotic superhero - sells pretty well,” said editor Victor Gorelick. “But to be honest, the Archie Americana trade paperbacks sell much better.”

The Americana trade paperbacks are collections of various stories of Archie and his Riverdale pals and gals grouped together by decade or theme, like the Christmas stories. The sad truth is that there is a bigger market for those books than the superhero stuff.

Yeah but, if Archie won’t put out collections of characters like The Hangman, Steel Sterling, The Wizard, Captain Flag, Mr. Justice and dozens of others, no one will. “I know there are people out there who would love to see us repackage these books,” Gorelick said. “The people at Diamond Comics Distributors are always on our case to do it and we want to. But it’s an expensive proposition.”

Gorelick explained that in order to produce the collections, they must buy copies of the actual books, take them apart and process them. The color must be removed and then recolored. Of course, the comics are destroyed in the process and those comics are worth hundreds, even thousands, of dollars. Then there is the knottier problem of whether enough people are willing to shell out the cash for the works.

Archie exces are just not sure.

So they will be looking into it and testing the waters to see how much demand is out there. Gorelick said another project under strong consideration is the collection of the first silver age Joe Simon and Jack Kirby Archie super-hero, The Double Life of Private Strong from 1959. It was an updating of The Shield, in much the same way DC revived The Flash a few years earlier.

Frankly, Archie Comics could name its own price for a book of glossy, full-sized reproductions of those incredible Golden Age covers. Considering the success that DC and Marvel are having with their Archive and Masterworks editions, the fan market is out there. I think that Archie is thinking too small. Perhaps Archie should follow DC and Marvel’s lead and produce a hardbound book collecting a larger number of comics with a $40 price tag.

The higher price may be enough to justify the cost of the projects.

Weird as it sounds, $10 is too cheap.

Back to The Mighty Crusaders compilation, I’m anxious to see it even though I know the work is pretty simplistic stuff. The new cover by Joe Staton will help.

Okay, let’s be honest. By modern standards, even by 1966 standards, the work is not that great. Grouping together a handful of characters as Archie’s answer to Marvel’s Avengers, even changing the name from The Fly to Fly-Man was little more than a sad effort to capitalize on the superhero revolution. Still, it was cool to see The Shield, the Black Hood, the Wizard, the Hangman, The Comet, The Fox, Steel Sterling, The Web again as the series progressed.

There was always potential with the characters and occasionally it was fully realized.

Which brings up the other issue: Collecting the Golden Age material could be an entrée back into the superhero market which Archie surrendered years ago. Considering Hollywood’s newfound appetite for superhero stories, it might spawn a new kind of franchise.

I know it’s unlikely. I’ll say anything to see those Golden Age MLJ books in print again.

One last note, Roy Thomas’ Alter Ego #23 ($5.95) has a good series of articles about the creators of the MLJ Golden Age heroes. It’s a nice work, but I would also like to see a series of articles about the characters and comics themselves.

Michael Sangiacomo is a statewide news reporter for the Plain Dealer newspaper in Cleveland, Ohio. His syndicated "Journey Into Comics" weekly column on the state of the comic book business, can be found in newspapers and at the Newsarama website. His monthly comic book column appears the first Saturday of each month in the Plain Dealer Arts page and is syndicated through Newhouse Newspapers. He also writes a twice-monthly audiobooks review column covering crime thrillers and mysteries that can be seen at <a href="http://www.audiobookstoday.com" target="_blank">www.audiobookstoday.com</a>. He currently is developing Nowhere Man for Marvel’s Epic imprint.

Shadow of Manhattan
05-05-2003, 08:50 AM
You know...I really liked these characters long long before DC got the rights to them and produced them under the Impact imprint. They were more simplistic, yes, but they were also very well done for what they were. As an aside, too, if Archie is going to go into republishing their superhero stuff, they should release a collection of their stable-character conversions. Archie as Pureheart, etc...I would buy Masterworks/Archives editions of both the Golden Age/Silver Age superheroes and the Archie character conversions. That's just the kind of nostalgic geek I am. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />

Bill_Nolan
05-05-2003, 10:18 AM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MattBrady:
<strong><a href="http://www.newsarama.com/Other_Publishers/jackpot01.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/Other_Publishers/jackpot01_t.jpg" width="200" height="283" align="right" border="0"></a>by Mike Sangiacomo

Frankly, Archie Comics could name its own price for a book of glossy, full-sized reproductions of those incredible Golden Age covers. Considering the success that DC and Marvel are having with their Archive and Masterworks editions, the fan market is out there. I think that Archie is thinking too small. Perhaps Archie should follow DC and Marvel’s lead and produce a hardbound book collecting a larger number of comics with a $40 price tag.

The higher price may be enough to justify the cost of the projects.

Weird as it sounds, $10 is too cheap.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I agree with the above sentiments 100 percent. Unfortunately, when I mentioned just such an idea a while back on a MLJ message board, the fans there thought I was insane. Given the current market for comic book reprints, I bet sales wouldn't go down to any great extent and the profit would be much greater for Archie.

Of course, for now there's always microfiche:

<a href="http://www.microcolour.com/mci003.htm" target="_blank">http://www.microcolour.com/mci003.htm</a>

- Bill

Charles RB
05-05-2003, 10:29 AM
I dunno why the company would bother making superhero titles when their Archie titles make them so much money- hell, they have no real competition when it comes to the Archie titles, so why would they take the risk with superhero titles that would bring them up against Marvel?

John Gallagher
05-05-2003, 11:21 AM
Just to add to this conversation, there is a group of creatrors, both inside the Archie family, and outside (myself included) that love these characters, and would love to create new stories with these characters.

The 70's saw the first revival (and art by some greats, like Toth, Neil Adams, and others), but there were too many heroes shown too quickly, readers would be refferred to 30 year old comics in the dialogue boxes ("* see Pep #13 for more details!"), and there seemed to be no long term goal in where the comics wrere headed.

When DC picked up the franchise, I think the goal was to crate a kids' line, but no one told the kids! We did see some good early work from up-and-coming creators like Mark Waid, and Mike Parobeck, to name a few, but the Impact line seemed to be competing against itself, as part of DC.

So here we are today. It may be a good point that Archie should focus on what Archie does best, but with a lack many good all-ages books in this genre, and the popularity of JLA on TV, it seems that Archie charm could be applied to super heroes in an interesting, and superior way.

gormuu
05-05-2003, 12:31 PM
Count me in with the people that think that if Archie created a high-end, hardcover edition along the lines of Masterworks and Archives, sales would not go down. And if they did, it would be offset by the increased profits.

If people really want to see this material, this is the best way to go to get more of it. The way it sounds like it's going will lead to a small trickle of books, and then a shuttered-down failure of a project. Archie will walk away convinced it can't be done.

Look to the DC Archives to see how it should be done. This is the model- it is the most successful reprint initiative of all time, IMHO, and is now MONTHLY!!! Think about that? The DC Archives are now monthly, just like any old comic. What does this mean? Evidently it means DC is making money and the fans are getting what they want.

dollman
05-05-2003, 01:12 PM
I think these characters will always be stucked with the "has potential" label. I've been through two revamps of these characters during my lifetime, 1st with Rich Buckler's Red Circle imprint for Archie, and more recently with DC's Impact imprint. Also in my collection is a digest sized reprint from Archie, of the 60s stories which introduced the Kirby Lance Strong Shield, and the Fly.

Even though the 60s stories weren't that great, I felt they were better than any of the recent revivals. I think DC's mistake was launching all the characters at once, which effectively competed against their own B-level books (ie. Roger Stern's Starman, Blue Devil, Manhunter, Checkmate, etc.). Also since DC decided to ignore the characters previous history and essentially start from scratch, there was really nothing noteworthy about the Impact line from DC's B books of the day. True they existed in another universe, but so did Marvel's New Universe characters of the late 80s. And we all know how well the New Universe did.

If Archie or anyone else were to take a stab at these characters again, they should start with one character, and see how it goes from there. Ideally, any new series would embrace the character's golden age history and origins, not ignore them like Impact did.

Redmond
05-05-2003, 01:16 PM
Delicate subject but I'd like to see someone recollect Decarlo's run on Betty & Veronica in phonebook size tpb. That stuff is hard to find in decent condition. The guy did like a legacy of stuff, it's sad to see it let go forgotten.

I liked Sam Schwartz's Jughead too. It'd be nice in a format like the marvel recollections that they do of 25 or so issues in black and white.

Shadow of Manhattan
05-05-2003, 01:19 PM
Heh...I forgot to mention in my earlier post that I was such a fan of these characters that I even still own all of the Mighty Crusaders action figures that they put out in the eighties.

Mike Cruz
05-05-2003, 06:12 PM
Is there anyone out who remembers a digest that was published, during the eighties I think, which featured various heroes like the Jaguar, the Black Hood, etc.?

I think it was published c. 1983 around when the the Mighty Crusaders was being published monthly, and drawn by Rich Buckler.

I lost the digest and would appreciate anyone who could remember the name of that digest so I could I look it up on ebay.

-Mike

Fin Fang Foom
05-05-2003, 07:21 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by gormuu:
<strong>Count me in with the people that think that if Archie created a high-end, hardcover edition along the lines of Masterworks and Archives, sales would not go down. And if they did, it would be offset by the increased profits.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">But they'd have to aim for significantly higher-quality package than, say, that collection of reprints of THE SHIELD that Archie published late last year. While I acknowledge that the work had to be reconstructed, the results were nowhere /near/ par with other, similar projects. (Except maybe that atrocious Verotik BLUE BOLT reprint.)

Of course, it didn't help that the material they were reprinting was just an /amazingly/ bad example of Golden Age comic art. Given this example, a "best of" compillation (where the company can pick and choose from great and important works) is probably the way to go.

Someone should let Archie know that it's no longer necessary to destroy Golden Age comics to reproduce them; the Golden Age DC Archives often use color xeroxes for the computer-color removal process; "Theakstonizing," (or bleaching the printed pages) if they're doing so, is no longer necessary. (In fact a team from DC went down to Diamond's Gallery operation to make the copies that were used in the BLACKHAWK ARCHIVES.)

Fin Fang Foom
05-05-2003, 07:26 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by dollman:
<strong>...I think DC's mistake was launching all the characters at once, which effectively competed against their own B-level books (ie. Roger Stern's Starman, Blue Devil, Manhunter, Checkmate, etc.). Also since DC decided to ignore the characters previous history and essentially start from scratch, there was really nothing noteworthy about the Impact line from DC's B books of the day. True they existed in another universe, but so did Marvel's New Universe characters of the late 80s. And we all know how well the New Universe did.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">The IMPACT line was originally devised as a line that would appeal to younger readers; though given the Direct Market's single-minded approach to selling comics to a specific customer, it's no wonder that idea never really got off the ground. (And to be fair, DC did a poor job pushing it in that direction.)

This is also why the characters were relaunched, with all history and continuity put aside (and why it was set in its' own "universe"); that stuff would have had limited appeal to the designated audience.

Despite all that, there were some really terrific IMPACT books, and the line featued some top talent; Mark Waid, Mike Parobeck, Rick Burchett, and others I'm sure I've forgotten.

Jim Kosmicki
05-05-2003, 09:42 PM
Actually, Archie has put some of their 60's hero stories in their digests in the past few years here and there. Never very consistently, but they will show up at odd times.

the two digest were Archie's Super Hero Special followed by Archie's Super Hero Comics Digest Magazine, IIRC.

the first had more 60's superhero stuff including a LOT of Black Hood (by Gray Morrow? or was it Alex Toth) and The Web, the world's first henpecked superhero (as THEY promoted him!). the second, as I recall, had a lot of the Simon/Kirby Private Shield and Fly stories in it.

There was a third digest called Cap't Hero Comics Digest Magazine (Cap't Hero being Jughead's superhero alias). Wouldn't you know, that's the one I can easily find right now and the one that I have the least interest in, then or now.

There were a lot of good things reprinted in the digests in the late 70's/early 80s. DC had quite the digest line for a while as well, but only Archie has kept the format alive.

lil bad boy
05-05-2003, 09:55 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by MattBrady:
<strong>Gorelick explained that in order to produce the collections, they must buy copies of the actual books, take them apart and process them. The color must be removed and then recolored. Of course, the comics are destroyed in the process and those comics are worth hundreds, even thousands, of dollars. Then there is the knottier problem of whether enough people are willing to shell out the cash for the works.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Say what? Haven't they ever heard of scanners? The stuff is all recolored on computers, anyway.

Geez.

FIG
05-06-2003, 04:08 AM
You know what would be cool, if they revamped these characters the right way and released a one shot.

mike sangiacomo
05-06-2003, 08:10 PM
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by lil bad boy:
Say what? Haven't they ever heard of scanners? The stuff is all recolored on computers, anyway.

Geez.[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">No, scanners? Do you really think that a company the size of Archie never heard of scanners?
Get real. The process for turning old Golden Age comics into good-looking modern trades is a lot more complex than scanning it. Give 'em some credit.

And regarding the many incarnations of the MLJ heroes, yes they have been brought back many times. The Buckler books were among the best. DC's Impact line the worst. There have been a few repackaging of the 60s, 70s stories, including Gray Morrow's Black Hoood (It was The Web who was the first hen-pecked superhero, not the Hood) but almost nothing has been done to bring back the MLJ heroes adventures in the 40s.
M

MarkDrummond
05-07-2003, 03:11 PM
I'd suggest Archie collect all the Golden Age Comet stories by Jack Cole. I don't think they've ever been reprinted and there are plenty of Cole collectors out there who'd like to have them all in one set.

Shawn C.
05-14-2003, 03:41 AM
I can't believe no one has mentioned my website as of yet! I've spent so much time scanning these books, and I have 4 you can read online.

<a href="http://www.goldcomics.com" target="_blank">http://www.goldcomics.com</a>

MLJ stuff from 1939-1947

Shawn

The Power of Shazam
05-16-2003, 12:29 AM
I just recently got my copy of the Shield paperback when it was re-offered again in Previews, and am enjoying it so far. I do hope that Archie Comics does more Golden Age collections, especially on their superheroes.

I love what DC Comics has been doing with their Archives line since 1989 and am pleased that Marvel Comics has revived their Masterworks line once again. I just hope that Archie Comics can publish more larger collections, maybe hardcovers, instead of these less expensive paperbacks that can only collect small amounts of material. They should take the time and money on this. It will be worth the effort.