UNCANNY X-MEN #450

[MattBrady]

<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/Marvel/Uncanny448/3327_1_t.jpg" width="165" height="250" border="0" align="right">Marvel has provided Newsarama with an 11 page preview of October's <b>Uncanny X-Men #450</b>, featuring the return of X-23 (http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7899), and her first meeting with the X-Men.

Marvel's solicitation for the issue reads:

"The Cruelest Cut" Parts 1 & 2 (of 2)

Wolverine’s 30th Anniversary Celebration starts off with a bang as the X-Men investigate some mysterious murders in New York City. All the victims seem to have been cut to pieces by blades — Adamantium blades! But if Wolverine didn’t murder these people…then who did?!

Issue #450 is due in stores on October 6th, issue #451, October 20th.

Click here (http://www.newsarama.com/pages/Marvel/UXM450.htm) for the preview

[algertman]

"X-23"

didn't JoeQ. create that charecter?

that has GOT to be the only reason that shitty charecter is going to show up in anything besides the non-exsistent "NYX" book

[Comics&Beer]

I absolutely love the old swashbuckling NightCrawler


:cool:

[MattBrady]

Originally posted by algertman
"X-23"

didn't JoeQ. create that charecter? Oh no, Google must be brok...oh wait, this was just the search button here...

X-23 (http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7899).

MattB

[algertman]

Originally posted by MattBrady
Oh no, Google must be brok...oh wait, this was just the search button here...

X-23 (http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7899).

MattB

thankyou

but i still think it's a shit charecter

[MattBrady]

Originally posted by algertman
thankyou

but i still think it's a shit charecter you read her appearances in NYX, then, or are you just hip shooting?

MattB

[dorwaystudios]

Don't know anything about this character...never picked up NYX.

But DAMN if this isn't the best straight super-hero book right now...Alan Davis is simply an amazing draftsman. And, holy crap?!?! Are those...thought balloons? FANtastic!!

I know so many "sophisticated" people here aren't a fan of Claremont...and yes, he's verbose and his dialogue is unrealistic...but it's VINTAGE Claremont. It has a VOICE!

And crazy me...but this PREVIEW took me longer to read than any random THREE Nu-Marvel titles. I'll take that anyday.

Yea, I'm old-school...but this book brings a smile to my face. And ultimately (or is that NON-ultimately) isn't that what's important?

[El Argentino]

How the friggin' adamantium blades can leaves traces....the adamantium is unbreakable or what?

:confused:

By the way, this plot is ubber-obvius! the killer is Speedball!;)

[Aaron]

Nobody draws Swashbuckling Nightcrawler better than Davis. I get goosebumps seeing that, remembering how much fun Excalibur was back in the day.

Between this book and Whedon's Astonishing X-Men, I haven't enjoyed the Mutant-verse so much in a LONG time.

Aaron

[Zadillo]

Originally posted by MattBrady
you read her appearances in NYX, then, or are you just hip shooting?

MattB

Personally I really liked her appearances in NYX, although to be fair, we don't see very much of her, or enough to tell too much about her. But there's certainly some potential.

It's just a shame NYX totally crapped out like it did............. was one of the most promising new series I've seen in recent years.

-Zadillo

[Foenix]

Damn, that's just some good comics there...

I know it's not perfect, and Claremont has his quirks, but he's almost back to the top of his game with his recent Uncanny run.

There are times when I'm reading it, and I'm just staring at the pages going, "I shouldn't like this, it's sooo corny..." but I can't help myself, and I can't explain it.

I'm just having such fun with this title right now.

J

[Wolverine]

Who is this marie character. I mean I am a huge X-men fan but for some reason I don't recogise her

[Fazhoul]

I don't care if Claremont isn't the writer he used to be. I buy this book for the artwork of Alan Davis alone.

[Hdefined]

"The Return of X-23?" By the time NYX #7 ships (or #5 for that matter), she won't have been gone for more than a couple of weeks.

[IvCNuB4]

Ewww. Kurt and Rachel ? That's just wrong ! Isn't she like still a teen-ager ? And I am sooooo sick of Claremont's Emma-bashing with Rachel. Christ, if Emma was in his book he'd be putting her a frickin' pedastal as the next White Phoenix or something .....

[drumore]

The more they release half-full issue previews, either here or online, the less likely I am to actually spend money on the issues.

Reading free online is fine with me.

[Vector]

Marie is an Human anti-mutant terrorist from the Intifada arc of XXM.

[CrazyFool]

Technically this was Emma bashing with Sage, who being a former spy in the Hellfire Club is a perfect person to distrust Emma. I don't see it as Emma bashing as much as "We've seen what she's done and don't trust her" kind of thing. Whedon's doing very similar with Kitty in Astonishing.

[Foenix]

Originally posted by Fazhoul
I don't care if Claremont isn't the writer he used to be. I buy this book for the artwork of Alan Davis alone.

Which is also a gigantic selling point. The worst writer in comics (Fill in your own choice here...) could be writing this, and I'd still be buying for Davis's work. Huge fan, and I've been following it for a scary amount of years now. This isn't his best work, sadly, but it still knocks the socks off of almost any modern artist.

J

[AlexLothos]

WOAH!!!!!!

This was great... it's about time my dude Kurt finally gets some play!!! The flirting with Storm is Bishop's territory (well, Storm and Sage... good Lord, Bishop is a lucky man), but I liked it anyway. But this is even better!

The whole girl running from the gang is a bit cliche, but ah well... :p

Gimmie, gimmie, gimme!!!

[Jer-el]

Originally posted by MattBrady
Oh no, Google must be brok...oh wait, this was just the search button here...

X-23 (http://www.newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7899).

MattB

I just discovered the search engine on this site. I am going to enjoy this finding.

[MattBrady]

Originally posted by Jer-el
I just discovered the search engine on this site. I am going to enjoy this finding. you must prmise to use this new power only for good, though. :)

MattB

[BillReed]

Well... the dialogue can probably get more glaringly bad, but I hopefully won't be around to see it.

[algertman]

Originally posted by MattBrady
you read her appearances in NYX, then, or are you just hip shooting?

MattB

read it in NYX but since it's been months since the last issue came out, i sort of got rusty on it

[GoatMaster]

Originally posted by IvCNuB4
Ewww. Kurt and Rachel ? That's just wrong ! Isn't she like still a teen-ager ? And I am sooooo sick of Claremont's Emma-bashing with Rachel. Christ, if Emma was in his book he'd be putting her a frickin' pedastal as the next White Phoenix or something .....

Here's the scenario with Rachel, and why her 'Emma-bashing' makes perfect sense.

Rachel is the daughter of Scott Summers and Jean Grey.

Rachel first met Emma Frost as the White Queen of the Hellfire club, people who had once manipulated the person they believed to be her mother, causing this Phoenix Force clone to ultimately kill itlsef on the moon.

Rachel is the current host of the Pheonix Force, the very force that was manipulated, leading to its ultimate suicide on the moon.

While Scott and Jean were still married, Scott and Emma had an affair. Psionic or no, it still counts.

Jean died, and Emma was all too happy to fill her role, immediately.

Now, tell me that if you were in Rachel's shoes, seeing your father snuggle up with one of the people responsible for the corruption of the Phoenix Force to which you are bonded, right after your mother died, that you wouldn't be bitter? She's obviously even mad at her father as well, since she's renamed herself Rachel Grey.

You might as well have said "I'm tired of Claremont writing Rachel correctly. She ought to irrationally love her daddy's new woman."

[Idiosylph]

Originally posted by IvCNuB4
Ewww. Kurt and Rachel ? That's just wrong ! Isn't she like still a teen-ager ? And I am sooooo sick of Claremont's Emma-bashing with Rachel. Christ, if Emma was in his book he'd be putting her a frickin' pedastal as the next White Phoenix or something .....

I don't think there's any way that Rachel can be considered at teenager. She was at least as old as Shadowcat when she first came onto the scene but probably a bit older. Since Shadowcat is a faculty member at Xavier's now, I think we can safely assume that Rachel is an adult.

And I think that Rachel doing some Emma bashing is quite justified. Emma had an affair with Cyclops while he was married to Jean Grey. I can't think of many children who would be all that happy in that situation - coming from a possible future or not. If anything, there has not been enough reaction by other characters. It was really only with the begining of Astonishing and this current Claremont run on Uncanny have we really seen anyone reacting in a real way to it at all.

[sHk|KnightwinG]

Originally posted by drumore
The more they release half-full issue previews, either here or online, the less likely I am to actually spend money on the issues.

Reading free online is fine with me.

I mean really.............. especially in this case where they gave us HALF the issue......... what's my incentive to buy it?

I've now read HALF a story!!! Those morons at Marvel are letting me get away w/ this for FREE!!! Bwah ha ha!!!

Now, forgive me as I'm off to find websites that might allow me to see HALF a movie or HALF of a television show or HALF of.......

YES!!! Take that Marvel... I'm saving money...........................

D'oh! I just realized someting....... this is really embarassing..... but I just realized I don't know how this stories gonna end..... and damn... I liked these pages......

DAMN YOU, MARVEL !!!

[xpositive]

X-23 is stupid. Stupid stupid stupid. But dammit, the issue is so pretty I just don't care. Look at all that old style - pages divided up with a lot of squares with more action, text bubbles here and there, and a cover that indicates what happens this issue. Good stuff.

http://www.newsarama.com/Marvel/savex.gif

[Marty4Magik]

This book is simply amazing!! I love it!!

[Justice Daye]

I'm loving it. I think that's the problem that many have with Claremont. He still writes in his classic style. It's not that he isn't what he used to be, but that he is what he always was. And I love it. If every writer was the same, comics would be pretty boring. Readers should include a variety of styles and genres on their pull-lists.
I don't mind his verbose style. I don't mind actually having to read a comic.. That minimalist only works for some writers. Everyone just isn't capable of that. Besides, I like some meat on my stories. I also, don't mind his dialogue as I read much, much worse. It doesn't so much read as wrong as how the x-men have spoken for decades, so it doesn't get to me.

Originally posted by IvCNuB4
Ewww. Kurt and Rachel ? That's just wrong ! Isn't she like still a teen-ager ? And I am sooooo sick of Claremont's Emma-bashing with Rachel. Christ, if Emma was in his book he'd be putting her a frickin' pedastal as the next White Phoenix or something .....

She's around 19-22, so not that young.
And Rachael doesn't like Emma, many of the x-men don't as I recall including Kitty who bashes her every issue, Logan who doesn't trust her or Cyke, Storm who resents Emma stealing her body years ago, and Jean who hates for...well stealing her husband., so that's nothing odd. Also, Rachael has only described dislike for Emma twice, so you can't be that tired of it just yet.

To whom ever said it (not to pick nits): Rachael also doesn't hold the phoenix force anymore. It abandoned her in one of the later issues of Cable. But, your point still stands.

[Zadillo]

I don't know, I think there does seem to be some difference in what Claremont is doing now compared with some previous stuff.

I didn't read much of X-Treme X-Men, but I picked up a few issues of it (the most recent was the "God Loves, Man Kills Part II" first issue), and it just didn't seem very good to me.

But I am enjoying Uncanny so far. It's not giving me the feeling I got from his original classic run, but I think it is nice for what it is.

-Zadillo

[GoatMaster]

Originally posted by Justice Daye

To whom ever said it (not to pick nits): Rachael also doesn't hold the phoenix force anymore. It abandoned her in one of the later issues of Cable. But, your point still stands.

Yeah, but Jean has gained/lost access to the Phoenix Force a number of times as well. Noticed the fiery aura around ehr when she uses her telekinesis? Or the symbol that appears over her eye, that looks mysteriously like the logo on her mom's old costume? I'd say that, although it abandoned her before, the Phoenix Force is now residing within the body of Rachel oncemore.

[kalorama]

I'd buy anything that Davis drew. And while I'm no big Claremont fan, , to tell you the truth, this is the first time I've actually enjoyed reading an X-Men comic since the Claremont/Smith run. Old school, throwback, nostalgic, whatever. It's a fun read.

[Garjones]

Originally posted by Zadillo
I don't know, I think there does seem to be some difference in what Claremont is doing now compared with some previous stuff.

I didn't read much of X-Treme X-Men, but I picked up a few issues of it (the most recent was the "God Loves, Man Kills Part II" first issue), and it just didn't seem very good to me.

But I am enjoying Uncanny so far. It's not giving me the feeling I got from his original classic run, but I think it is nice for what it is.

-Zadillo

It's because Alan Davis is drawing it. Claremont is famously very collaborative and the quality of his stories can vary wildly depending on the artist, to whom he often gives co-creator status.

I think his stuff always works better when drawn by a strong classic artist with a clear storytelling style. Compare his work with John Byrne, Jim Lee, Alan Davis or Paul Smith and when he's been given 'lesser' artists to work with. I think their strong styles reign Claremont's mor rambling tendencies in.

[Scooby2099]

The preview looks nice (of course!), but it's too bad that we have to suffer with an appearance of this lame X-23 character. It's bad enough we have Wolverine in practically every comic book these days but now we have to have some second rate chick clone of Wolvie too rammed down our throats.

[OcCaM]

THIS IS VERBOSE? ARE YOU PEOPLE ALL RETARDED OR ON DRUGS??????????????

Sorry, now that I've got that out of the way!

It's just that, this barely took any time to read, and while it's not quite as bad as most of the Nu-Marvel non-existent stories, it's still not what Claremont used to be.

Some of those panels have no words, and only a couple balloons per most panels. Looking at his older stuff, where 50% of each panel was all talky, I think he's quite restrained on this.

Actually, I think it's just the right amount of text/dialogue/thought baloons (wow thought balloons!) Least, I'd feel i get something for my 5 minute read! (which is better than the 3 minute Nu-Marvel reads!) I wouldn't really want him to go back to that extremely verbose style though, it was just tedious and repetitious.

I'm actually impressed enought that I might have to buy X-Men again. After 4 years of not collecting and 30 years collecting, I sortof almost miss them!

Verbose haha, I think some people have some major ADD's!

[Peter Geddes]

This'll be one of the first books I get when my 'Back to floppies' Advance Orders start to arrive :cool:

And THAT is a beautiful two-page splash. Gorgeous stuff - and the colouring looks top notch too.

Haven't seen enough to discuss/praise/criticize the story, but it'll sure LOOK fantastic!

[Hoylus]

I think this is just hokey.

"the waltz meant so much... so did the kiss... I'm a "dolt"... is wolverine dating storm?...."

Yuk.

'his fur is so sleek'?!?! LOL!

DO you guys really buy this stuff as a great comic? I'm just not feeling it.

[Justice Daye]

Originally posted by Hoylus
I think this is just hokey.

"the waltz meant so much... so did the kiss... I'm a "dolt"... is wolverine dating storm?...."

Yuk.

'his fur is so sleek'?!?! LOL!

DO you guys really buy this stuff as a great comic? I'm just not feeling it.

It's supposed to be a little hokey and goofy...that's the point. It's written as an old-school book with old-school problems.

[X-23]

more of me is always a good thing

[Soundwave]

Originally posted by MattBrady
Click here (http://www.newsarama.com/pages/Marvel/UXM450.htm) for the preview Thank you so much for posting these, I love them, especially the ones with Sage! Claremont and Davis work so well together.

[GOSD]

Originally posted by Fazhoul
I don't care if Claremont isn't the writer he used to be. I buy this book for the artwork of Alan Davis alone.

Me too.

[Your pal, Jim]

Is this Alan Davis' last work on this title? I don't think his name is in the solicits for the issues after. Thanks for any info!

[Zadillo]

Originally posted by Your pal, Jim
Is this Alan Davis' last work on this title? I don't think his name is in the solicits for the issues after. Thanks for any info!

I think it's just a guest artist coming on for a few issues...... I don't think Davis is off the book permanently.

-Zadillo

[tricksterpup]

This issue looks very good and I am very excited about seeing what happens. :)
I think Claremont finally slipped on his comfortable shoes again and is at his top again with this book.
As for X-23 I will past judgement on her Character after this story arc. I have seen bad characters turn in to gems from my years of reading comics. And I have faith in Claremont and his abilities here into making an entertaining comic. I am sure after reading the comic, i will say it was money worth spending.

[TexasW5]

Please please please somebody help me out here. This has been bugging me since Claremont's run started up again.

When the hell did Rachel return???

Last I remember of her was either her disappearing in Excalibur #75, or her being old in the latter issues of Cable, but the point is I remember her being GONE.

Then, Claremont and Davis start up on Uncanny, and BOOM, there's Rachel. No explanation.

For a while I thought we were all in the dark, and he'd explain her appearance later on, but no. Not so much.

I read a smidgen of X-Treme X-Men and never liked it, but I do know why Sage is on the team, and why Psylocke is dead, but that's it. Did Rachel return in X-Treme, or what? What issue / storyline?

Man, I really wish X-Treme had been good enough (in my opinion) to buy... I feel lost, and I own every issue of Uncanny from 180 up... that's kind of sad.

Thank you in advance to anybody that can fill me in here.

[IvCNuB4]

Yes, Rachel did return during the last issues of X-Treme. She was the mysterious telepath working for Bogan.

Originally posted by Idiosylph
IAnd I think that Rachel doing some Emma bashing is quite justified. Emma had an affair with Cyclops while he was married to Jean Grey. I can't think of many children who would be all that happy in that situation - coming from a possible future or not.

I hear what you're saying, but I disagree on the "possible future or not" statement. Rachel's dad never had an affair with Emma (that we know of). So really, what business is it of hers that it happened in this reality ? It's almost like Claremont is now trying to retcon Rachel to be of this reality but from the future, like Cable. Like that scene with the Holempathic Crystal a few issues back. Rachel used the crystal from the 616 reality because it was "not my mom, but really, really close" (see Uncanny #199). Based on that, how the heck could she have been having that "conversation" with her mom when that should've been the 616 Jean Grey's essence ?

[Aaron]

What the heck is the 616 reality???

[Defunkt]

For almost 20 years I'm reading UXM and I always was a huge fan. Not so in recent years. Changed a lot of my reading habits
and started to like other genres and companies besides Marvel.

I was very disappointed in XXM and very sceptical when I read that CC would go back to UXM because before XXM he had a short stint on UXM and that run wasn't OK either! ;)


Maybe it's because CC writes, Storm, Nightcrawler, Wolverine and Rachel that he somehow is more inspired than when he wrote XXM.

Anyway, right now, I must say I highly enjoy UXM. The "dated" soap opera like dialog, I just adore it! It's fun, it's top notch mainstream and old school.
I grade Claremont and Davis A+!! :)

[DrDoom]

what is with that patch over Kitties head ? From a previous encounter ?

[Drew Reiber]

Originally posted by TexasW5
When the hell did Rachel return???

If you need the longer version of this explanation, buy the recent Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: X-Men 2004. It lists every issue and every major issue of continuity with Rachel so writers don't have to mentioned 10 years of time travel storylines to explain Rachel's current presence when they just go, "Oh hey, you're back. Good."

Rachel was sent to the Apocalypse future in Excalibur #75. In the very early issues of the first ongoing Cable series, it was revealed she died there protecting him and was somewhat involved in the Askani clan. Later, during the X-Men: Phoenix mini-series, the events surrounding Rachel's gathering of the Askani Clan and Blaquesmith in the Apocalypse run future were explained.

After Cable destroyed Apocalypse once and for all, in the present, during the ridiculous The Twelve storyline and the ensuing and needless Return of Cyclops mini-series, that future ceased to exist. Robert Weinberg's excellent Cable run had an arc where it was discovered that the destruction of the timeline resulted in Rachel being purged from it and lost in the time stream. Cable rescued her and she came back, choosing to take some time off after hearing her father was dead.

Nearly 4 years later, Rachel reappeared while under the influence of Bogan in the last multi-issue storyarc in Claremont's X-Treme X-Men. Once saved, she became one of the many X-Men members during the team reformation in May's "Reloaded" event this year. So you see, as she's where she should be if you only read the regular X-Men series anyway, the unnecessary exposition required to explain when/how she left and came back is just circular and is better addressed in the Handbooks or online.

[OcCaM]

Originally posted by Aaron
What the heck is the 616 reality???

The Marvel Universe Proper.

Based off the address of Marvel comics office IIRC.

The way I feel about most Marvel comics these days they should call it the 666 U. :)

[Garjones]

Originally posted by OcCaM
The Marvel Universe Proper.

Based off the address of Marvel comics office IIRC.

The way I feel about most Marvel comics these days they should call it the 666 U. :)

It derives from Alan Moore/Davis's fantastic Captain Britain run. Unlike DC with a few universes/dimensions he set up thousands, with Captain Albion, UK, Airstrip One etc etc.

The Earth CB lived in, rather than being the cliche Earth 1 was actually 616. Since CB met up with Spiderman and others during his run the normal Marvel universe is described as 616.

Until the TBP a couple of years ago this story was never even published in the US but the title of 616 has stuck. By the way it is easily one of the best superhero comics ever written by a country mile. From Psylocke to Gatecrasher's Technet to Roma to The Fury the X-men has ripped loads from it over the years. Buy it and love it.

[Bloodcat]

I enjoyed this preview. I like Claremont's writing, even if it is a bit hokey sometimes. He has made a lot of great characters over the years, and redefined others.

And some plot points from the frickin first Reagan administration STILL haven't been resolved! Talk about long story arcs!

As to the artists? What? No love for Dave Cockrum's stuff? Im reading those Essential X Men phonebooks and his art is REAL nice.

Ill probably grab the TPB of this run once they release it, even if Rache was one of the few ladies to not swoon over Fuzzy Blue Elf back in the day... :rolleyes:

[TexasW5]

Thank you VERY VERY much Drew. I knew all but the last couple pieces of it, but now it makes sense. Some day when I have lots of moolah I want to go back and buy up all the X-Treme trades... I just had a hard time paying $3 an issue for a book I really didn't like that much.

And by the way, if the MU got it's 616 from Marvel's old offices, ironically Earth 666, as joked about above, would probably be the DC Universe. One of their old addresses, for quite a few years I believe, was 666 5th Avenue (am I right)?

Not a DC bashing joke. Just funny.

[Aaron]

So, Earth 616 is derived from an old Captain Britain story or the Marvel address, depending on who's using the term...

Man, talk about an obscure reference. No wonder I didn't get it.

I used to think I was a total comics geek... safe to say I have been surpassed! :-)

Aaron

[Wrath]

X-23 is from the Cartoon correct? Sorta like Firestar from Spiderman and his amazing friends

[Your pal, Jim]

Originally posted by Zadillo
I think it's just a guest artist coming on for a few issues...... I don't think Davis is off the book permanently.

-Zadillo

Thank you Zadillo! I hope that's the case!

[IvCNuB4]

Originally posted by Wrath
X-23 is from the Cartoon correct? Sorta like Firestar from Spiderman and his amazing friends

Yes, she is. And frankly I'd much rather see Firestar in this title than another version of the already over-saturated Wolverine ... :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Idiosylph
I don't think there's any way that Rachel can be considered at teenager. She was at least as old as Shadowcat when she first came onto the scene but probably a bit older. Since Shadowcat is a faculty member at Xavier's now, I think we can safely assume that Rachel is an adult.

Sounds logical, I just got confused because Viper keeps referring to her as "child" and "below the legal limit" in the current Uncanny issues.

[Blindfold]

I seem to be in the minority in this, but I feel like Alan Davis' work is slowly declining. I thought he kept improving, with UXM #446 his peak. The last two previews I've seen of his work weren't as great IMO.

As for X-23, I'm willing to give her a chance. Sure I'm tired of Wolverine, but hopefully something great can be salvaged from this horrible idea of a Wolverine clone.

http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6344mPB2S/130498.jpg http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6344mPB2S/120614.jpg http://www.pix8.net/pro/pic/6344mPB2S/119436.jpg

[DavidQ!]

The god damn writing here sucks if I can call it writing. Who wrote this a blind-man with carpel tunel?