STEVE WACKER ON SPIDER-MAN'S "NEW WAYS TO DIE"

[MattBrady]

<a href="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Spider-Man/NewWaystoDie.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Spider-Man/t_NewWaystoDie.jpg" border="0" align="right"></a>Yesterday (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=155455), we brought you word of the announcement of Spider-Man’s summer plans – a little arc starting in August called “New Ways to Die,” which will include the first appearance of someone/thing calling itself the Anti-Venom.

Today, we’ve got a few words from <b>Amazing Spider-Man</b> Editor Steve Wacker about the returns coming in Peter Parker’s life, as well as just what this Anti-Venom may be up to.

<b>Newsarama</b>: Steve, for the first few months of the thrice monthly Spider-Man, we've had some reintroductions, but precious few familiar faces in regards to Spidey's classic enemies. We spoke a little about that a long time ago, but now that we're into it, was there a concerted effort to keep some specific players off the table for a while?

<b>Steve Wacker</b>: It was really just the classic villains we were staying away from for the first few arcs. .We knew that at least at the start of this we'd have a spotlight given all the controversy surrounding the story. Since Marvel and the creative team both wanted some new blood in this book, we wanted to use that spotlight to focus on some new bad guys to widen Pete's enemies list a bit. Now that we're a few months in, we'll be bringing in some of the classic villains but they'll be mixing it up with the classic crew too.

<b>NRAMA</b>: And this changes in August. Can you sketch it out in broad strokes - who all is coming back?

<b>SW</b>: Venom and Norman Osborn are central to “New Ways to Die”, but they aren't alone. For one thing, where Norman goes The Thunderbolts go.

<b>NRAMA</b>: Is there a reason for the return, all at once like this? As you’ve mentioned - you've got two members of the T-bolts there...sounds like a hunting expedition for an unregistered hero...

<b>SW</b>: The reason is a big story. I don't think it's "all at once". I mean, it's two bad guys on the same team (Thunderbolts) with strong connections to Spider-Man. There's every reason in the world to come after him.

<a href="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Spider-Man/AntiVenom.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Spider-Man/t_AntiVenom.jpg" border="0" align="left"></a>The general direction and story was always a part of our plans, but when we learned that JRJr wanted to come back to the book we aimed to making this his first story since we wanted something big and attention getting.

What Dan Slott (with some assist with Marc, Zeb and Bob) has done is come up with a story that ties together many threads going on in the book since we all came aboard (insert angry Newsarama poll here!). At the end of “New Ways to Die” a lot of game pieces are thrown up in the air and Spidey has a lot of new problems to deal with.

<b>NRAMA</b>: You've said that issues surrounding the changes from “One More Day” would be addressed as needed and as they came up. Let's talk about Norman and Venom - for both of them, <i>knowing</I> Peter's secret was a large part of who they were and was part of their relationship/antagonism with Spider-Man, yet now, as the guide said, <i>no one</I> knows. Are these two asterisks to that rule, or do Venom and Norman no longer know that Peter Parker is Spider-Man?

<b>SW</b>: It's addressed in the story. Here's a tease from Dan's plot for #568:

"Drumming his fingers together...NORMAN OSBORN simply says, “Parker….”

<b>NRAMA</b>: Also with this arc, JRJr's back as well. He's the classic artist, yes, yes, but from your chair - what does he bring to Spider-Man? Yes, that's right - try to characterize something that can't be characterized...what makes JRJr's Spider-Man so cool?

<b>SW</b>: John was born to this job. He is simply on this earth to draw Spidey. I mean, I love it when he does other things. His work on <b>Kick-Ass</b> for example is described in the name of that book. However, when I see his Spidey pages (and the way they look after inker Klaus Janson and colorist Dean White are done with them), I get the same feeling I get watching Jordan play basketball, Downey Jr. play Iron Man, or Quesada eating an empanada: it's just what they're supposed to be doing in this world. I don't think I can explain it better than that.

<b>NRAMA</b>: And Dan - people seem to think of him as the quirky guy, writing stories with a hidden smirk in them. Yeah, <b>The Initiative</b> has changed some minds, but this sounds like a very...villain-y piece. So what're his scheming/evil stories like?

<b>SW</b>: Like most people under 5'9", Dan is very much like villain. He's very meticulous about the villain's plot and what they want...and just how much you can put Peter through before he cracks.

<b>NRAMA</b>: Oh yeah, and lest we forget…the Anti-Venom... A new part of the symbiote, previously unseen, or...who? The "anti" would suggest that he/it's good...

<b>SW</b>: But Venom works for the law now, right? So isn't he good? I'll leave it to readers to figure out who's good and evil, but I can tell you that things aren't too easy in this story for the bad guys <i>or</I> the good guys.

<b>NRAMA</b>: Finally - this Venom - Eddie Brock? Last time we saw him, pre-“One More Day,” of course, he wasn't Venom...Mac was. Something must have changed, perhaps?

<b>SW</b>: Less has changed than you think.

[MrBanshee]

Hopefully the whole "who knows his secret identity" thing will be addressed at last!

[samnoir]

I am very much interested in this new dynamic. With Venom and Norman Osborn officially "the good guys", it was only a matter of time before they turned their attention to Spiderman.

I was kind of hoping this would be something Warren Ellis would have explored in the pages of Thunderbolts.

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[Glacier]

Wow...I can't believe how many people are still buying this title since 'Brand New Day' started. I still stand by my opinions that this is all such a HUGE step backwards, and I'd rather save my money and re-read my back issues than pay for this rehash. Spider-Man is just so lame now.

[GohanWinner]

Love the old-school coloring on that Romita image.

I'm stil not at all sold on any portion of BND (still can't see how any of these stories can't be told with MJ...) but that Romita art looks great. I'll say this for the 3x weekly crew, the pencillers they're getting for it are great.

[Sano]

Like I said before, not a BND fan but I always lift my Spider-Man bans whenever Eddie Brock shows up, just like I did during the Clone Saga and the Mackie reboot lol! John Romita Jr., can't wait! :cool:

[HartyPotter]

Buying it regardless, but that's gonna rock.

[Ben543250]

This looks awesome! I'm a longtime Spider-Man fan, and I've been LOVING Spider-Man even more since BND started!! Woo!

[Lot 49]

Wow...I can't believe how many people are still buying this title since 'Brand New Day' started. I still stand by my opinions that this is all such a HUGE step backwards, and I'd rather save my money and re-read my back issues than pay for this rehash. Spider-Man is just so lame now.

Your loss.

[Nathan Jewell]

Wow...I can't believe how many people are still buying this title since 'Brand New Day' started. I still stand by my opinions that this is all such a HUGE step backwards, and I'd rather save my money and re-read my back issues than pay for this rehash. Spider-Man is just so lame now.

I am one of the people who dropped the book from my pull list with the final issue of OMD. I did not like the story or the ramifications one bit.

I order my books in advance so I did receive some of the BND stories. I imagine that there are at least a few people like myself in that respect so I would hold off on sales judgements for at least a month more.

As for how well the series is selling, I do have a question. Has anyone took the time to compare the total issues sales of the new format and accurately compare it to the total issue sales of the multiple titles from a few months back?

I would like to see this number now and in another 3 months or so.

If anyone is willing to look up the numbers and post it, I would like to see it and I thank you in advance.

Nathan

[defjoe]

no MJ married to Peter still?

It's crap!

and I love JR JR's art...what a waste..

[s*p rules]

Even though I hated OMD with a passion, I still gave BND a chance, and it just wasn't for me. Couldn't get over such a huge step backwards for the character (almost 30 and still living with his aunt? Peter may have been a "nerd" in school, but he was never a loser), and this pic of Bizarro Venom isn't enough to draw me back. I'll hold out hope that MJ and Peter figure it out and end up back together where they belong. Hell, if Barry Allen can return... :)

Thankfully I can still get my Spidey fix from the excellent Spiderman cartoon, Ultimate Spiderman, and Marvel Adventures Spiderman.

[shadowchaser]

only thing i'm looking forward o about this is JRJR, thats it

although zeb well's arc was great (the only run i picked up), this is still does not feel like spider-man...

it just feels out of wack (no pun)

[lobocomics]

JR JR on spidey.... venom, Norman osborn.... yes... great Joe Q. indeed this is Brand new Day.... since JR has never drawn spidey before.... my god.... Spidey is dead.... dead.... They killed spidey

[HughSterb]

You guys have gotta see OMD as a necessary band-aid that's been ripped off. And look-- the boo boo is gone! Put the band aid and the tears behind you and enjoy BND for what it is.

Exciting to have JRjr back without the psychedelic coloring that made me feel like Spidey was a disco ball, and very excited to see what the brain trust has coming up.

I've enjoyed Spidey more this year than any time in the last five years. Why? Because the heart of the character is (finally) back! I'm not talking about plotting, I'm just talking about folks who know who Peter Parker is! We'll find out who knows what, just relax and enjoy the ride.

Boo boo is gone!

[TheJerkle]

I think this means we'll finally get that New Avengers vs. New Thunderbolts fight people have been asking for

[Clem]

When Wacker says "people seem to think of him as the quirky guy, writing stories with a hidden smirk in them", is that really a bad thing?

[weaselwelch]

Man this looks so cool. BND has been so damn awesome. And with Romita Jr coming back it's just get better.

As I said before OMD was a necessary evil. With past tries to get Peter single again(Clone Saga, Killing MJ) not working. Could they have kept them married sure. But right now the stories haven't been this good in a long time.And I loved JMS's run.

Something needed to be done to get Spider-Man back to his roots. Though I would like to see over time a few heroes either figure out he is Spider-Man or he tell them. Wolverine and Daredevil for one. Especially since DD is also unregistered.

[Devoted]

well..

am I the only one who thinks that anti-venom could be mr. negative (i think that's his name, the dude with the inverted coloring) with a symbiote?

[MNM]

no MJ married to Peter still?

It's crap!

and I love JR JR's art...what a waste..

Is your enjoyment of spider man really hinged on whether he is married or not?

[markfdavis]

I think alot of the new Spidey villians are cool. Nice to see new blood like that in the title.


www.landmarkcomics.com

[artiepants]

the most interesting things about that teaser to me are that's apparently Gargen in the venom suit (since they've done him with the eye-wholes in the big white eyes) and somebody's standing over Kraven's grave... if this didn't have JR jr. doing the art i'd probably have to check it out :(

[jgiannantoni]

RIP 1962-2007

Spidey needed to go back to his roots, but not at the expense of the marriage.

[ejulp]

well..

am I the only one who thinks that anti-venom could be mr. negative (i think that's his name, the dude with the inverted coloring) with a symbiote?
I been saying the same thing...n the fact that Slott wrote the Mr. N story is a clue.

[durkadurka]

I think a mistake Marvel made with BND is not explaining how the whole identity thing works. I know they say they'll reveal it in time, but until then it's just frustrating. They change so much of Spidey's story, but don't really say how it's done. It's fine when it just deals with Spidey's supporting cast and whatever, but considering he's Marvel's biggest character and appears in way more books than he's in the title for, it's just aggravating.
Last month Wolverine appeared, and there was nothing mentioned at all. All you know is that Spidey is still a New Avenger. The last time somebody messed with Logan's head, he mauled him (Fury LMD)! Magic was used on Logan before and he still remembered (House of M). And all of a sudden Osborn's going to remember? Why? Because he's crazy? So is most of Spidey's rogues gallery.

[0bsessions]

If anyone is willing to look up the numbers and post it, I would like to see it and I thank you in advance.
Nathan

Go through the Newsarama Marvel subforum. This has been covered repeatedly. You shouldn't have to go back any more than five pages before finding a thread with those figures.

[Darkseid_Is]

When Wacker says "people seem to think of him as the quirky guy, writing stories with a hidden smirk in them", is that really a bad thing?

I think his point was that people think Slott can only write in one style. He was saying Slott can do more than "stories with a hidden smirk" in them. He wasn't saying those stories are bad, just that Slott has more range than people think.

I'm trade waiting on BND, but I have to say what I've seen looks pretty good. I hate the idea behind OMD and will not buy it, but I won't hold what a completely separate creative team did against the current creative team. The teaser image in this article has me pretty excited.

[Liliaeth]

You guys have gotta see OMD as a necessary band-aid that's been ripped off. And look-- the boo boo is gone! Put the band aid and the tears behind you and enjoy BND for what it is.

Exciting to have JRjr back without the psychedelic coloring that made me feel like Spidey was a disco ball, and very excited to see what the brain trust has coming up.

I've enjoyed Spidey more this year than any time in the last five years. Why? Because the heart of the character is (finally) back! I'm not talking about plotting, I'm just talking about folks who know who Peter Parker is! We'll find out who knows what, just relax and enjoy the ride.

Boo boo is gone!


Are you serious?

I can take a lot of bad writing as long as the characterisation feels right.

The characterisation in BND on the other hand is so off they might as well be writing about an entirely different and much less interesting character. It feels like Spider-Man has lost his heart and soul. Like hes no longer the character I've been reading about for 20 years.

See by now, I'm no longer hating BND because of OMD, I'm despising BND because they've turned the one character I loved the most in all of comics, into a sleazy, slimy waste of space, that I can't even stand.

[i_am_scifi]

Wow...I can't believe how many people are still buying this title since 'Brand New Day' started. I still stand by my opinions that this is all such a HUGE step backwards, and I'd rather save my money and re-read my back issues than pay for this rehash. Spider-Man is just so lame now.

That's nice. Ummm...we read it because we enjoy it? Different strokes for different folks.

[weaselwelch]

I think a mistake Marvel made with BND is not explaining how the whole identity thing works. I know they say they'll reveal it in time, but until then it's just frustrating. They change so much of Spidey's story, but don't really say how it's done. It's fine when it just deals with Spidey's supporting cast and whatever, but considering he's Marvel's biggest character and appears in way more books than he's in the title for, it's just aggravating.
Last month Wolverine appeared, and there was nothing mentioned at all. All you know is that Spidey is still a New Avenger. The last time somebody messed with Logan's head, he mauled him (Fury LMD)! Magic was used on Logan before and he still remembered (House of M). And all of a sudden Osborn's going to remember? Why? Because he's crazy? So is most of Spidey's rogues gallery.
I think you will find the answer is this. That everything was changed from a certain point in time. And anyone who knew Peter was Spider-Man before that point will still know.

[ZeoVGM]

Wow...I can't believe how many people are still buying this title since 'Brand New Day' started. I still stand by my opinions that this is all such a HUGE step backwards, and I'd rather save my money and re-read my back issues than pay for this rehash. Spider-Man is just so lame now.

You don't read the new books, yet you say it's lame.

If you read them, you'd know how good BND has been, with only one mediocre arc out of four.

And you call it a rehash as if you know what you're talking about.

How is THIS story a rehash? I'm sure you'll give some lame reason that doesn't really make sense, so in that case why don't you tell me what they SHOULD do?

[durkadurka]

I think you will find the answer is this. That everything was changed from a certain point in time. And anyone who knew Peter was Spider-Man before that point will still know.
The way they explained it was that no one knows. Right now Peter Parker is the only one who knows that he is Spiderman.

[MattBrady]

Literally, in the Marvel folder, there are about a <i>dozen</I> threads discussing the merits and problems with BND/OMD in toto. If your comments are going to be limited to that, <b>please go there</b>. Let's keep the discussion in this thread about the topic, which is, the summer storyline.

Please don't make me start deleting...

MattB

[durkadurka]

Literally, in the Marvel folder, there are about a <i>dozen</I> threads discussing the merits and problems with BND/OMD in toto. If your comments are going to be limited to that, <b>please go there</b>. Let's keep the discussion in this thread about the topic, which is, the summer storyline.

Please don't make me start deleting...

MattB
Allow me to defend my posts by saying that this storyline directly deals with the question of who knows spider-man's identity.

[Legend437]

I for one am totally excited about this. Great writer, my favorite Spider-Man artist, and old villains returning in new ways. This is what I'm talking about. Can't wait for this event either way. :)

[mknopp99]

I gave BND a chance. I didn't like the idea of getting rid of the marriage. But in the first 2 arcs, there was nothing that couldn't have been done witha married Peter and MJ. If you are going to reboot and get rid of the marriage, there should have been a BIG notice of change other than what we got.

[johnchrist]

Man, you guys are still whining about OMD? Do us all a favor and get over yourselves huh?

BND is excellent! And (not to say anything bad abotu JRJR, his sh!t dost rock'th) until Bachalo did his arc I'd thought McFarlane was the best Spidey artist out there. But Mr. B proved me wrong!

Lookign forward to the 'New Ways to Die' arc, go JRJR!

[Burnt Frog]

As much as I would like to see JR jr draw the Thunderbolts, I have to respectfully decline buying this issue.

The Anti-Venom creature is an extremely poor idea. I want to spend my money on more boundary-pushing comics and so I don't want to buy issues which may just end up being ignored anyway.

Because if Marvel can bring back Bucky, depower nearly all the world's mutants and kill off the Peter/MJ marriage, then there's really no hope of anything worthwhile lasting in this universe.

If this situation changes I would be more than happy to support this series, as I believe Dan Slott and John Romita Jr. are two creators who both have a genuine love for the Marvel characters. And I may even go back and buy this arc. When the situation changes.

Nevertheless it would interesting to see if the other Thunderbolts play a larger role in later Spider-Man issues. Quesada supposedly wanted new villains for Spider-Man, well there they are! Hardly known at all but with lots of potential if handled right.

[Flashdisk]

Doesn't look interesting. The design for the symbiote or whatever creature doesn't appeal to me. The interview doesn't spark my interest. I might just be biased though.


This may be targeted for new readers or maybe just interesting for other readers. But for me its not going to pull me back to liking the Amazing Spider-Man comic again after the OMD.

[Flashdisk]

Doesn't look interesting. The design for the symbiote or whatever creature it is doesn't appeal to me. The interview doesn't spark my interest. I might just be biased though.


This may be targeted for new readers or maybe just interesting for other readers. But for me its not going to pull me back to liking/reading the Amazing Spider-Man comic again after the OMD.

[Da_Black_Goku]

I was ready to drop this title... now I won't.. for now.

[Guy_Gardner]

Man, you guys are still whining about OMD? Do us all a favor and get over yourselves huh?

BND is excellent! And (not to say anything bad abotu JRJR, his sh!t dost rock'th) until Bachalo did his arc I'd thought McFarlane was the best Spidey artist out there. But Mr. B proved me wrong!

Lookign forward to the 'New Ways to Die' arc, go JRJR!

they aren't whining about OMD...they're whining about Brand New Crap

and the one thing that turns me off about BND is the constant explanations of everything from Wacker and the Spidey writers...the story should explain everything themselves...its like Countdown all over again

they should just answer all the big questions that have been haunting them since BND started so they can just move on and tell their "fun" stories....all of this "just wait and see" attitude gets stale...even the diehards would probably get tired of waiting..I know I am

[wallywalters]

Wow...I can't believe how many people are still buying this title since 'Brand New Day' started. I still stand by my opinions that this is all such a HUGE step backwards, and I'd rather save my money and re-read my back issues than pay for this rehash. Spider-Man is just so lame now.

Glacier, I started reading Amazing Spider-Man again with Brand New Day. Sure, the repartee still isn't up to the level of Stan Lee or Len Wein, but at least the setting is "right" again (and who ever wrote "glib" as well as Lee or Wein?)

Personally, I believe Brand New Day didn't go far enough: Gwen Stacy should have been restored to the supporting cast as well. Killing her off was the Marvel equivalent of removing, say, Betty from the Archie titles. It throws the whole setup off balance.

[Darquehex]

I remember when I was at the panel where the thrice monthly ASM was announced (2007 San Diego, I think) and most of the fan questions involved asking where Venom and/or Eddie Brock were and at the end of the panel Wacker, boyish naivete all about him, tells the panel that he "thinks the creators and I are going to have a new conversation over our dinner tonight." I guess this came out of that.

I haven't read ASM since The Other, but I gotta say Dan Slott + Venom + JR Jr. isn't something I can trade-wait...I wouldn't even mind if Eddie's entire "I have cancer and am suicidal" schtick from Marvel Knights/Sensational Spidey was explained away "by magic and thus we don't have to explain it." I mean, no one likes off panel deaths or Robert Aguirre-Sacasa

[BanMan]

they should just answer all the big questions that have been haunting them since BND started so they can just move on and tell their "fun" stories....all of this "just wait and see" attitude gets stale...even the diehards would probably get tired of waiting..I know I am

The big questions ARE going to be answered in the story. Readers just aren't patient enough to not demand explanations.

[Green Goblin]

Wow...I can't believe how many people are still buying this title since 'Brand New Day' started. I still stand by my opinions that this is all such a HUGE step backwards, and I'd rather save my money and re-read my back issues than pay for this rehash. Spider-Man is just so lame now.
That's a shame because the last Spider-Man arc was seriously better than anything 616 Spider-Man has had since JRJR was last on the book....

[Liliaeth]

The big questions ARE going to be answered in the story. Readers just aren't patient enough to not demand explanations.


That's because the story's bad, the new bad guys are derivative rip offs of more interesting villains, the supporting characters are lame and one dimensional and Peter seems to be missing his soul or has it replaced by Nick Katzenberg's. If those problems weren't there, people like me would be a lot more patient in waiting for explanations.

[Dr Manolis Dooplove]

how come the interviewer didnt address the mary jane presence on the cover? is she finally back?

[LuisMa316]

That's because the story's bad, the new bad guys are derivative rip offs of more interesting villains, the supporting characters are lame and one dimensional and Peter seems to be missing his soul or has it replaced by Nick Katzenberg's. If those problems weren't there, people like me would be a lot more patient in waiting for explanations.

That's a matter of perspective. Some people are reading and enjoying BND.

[0bsessions]

Literally, in the Marvel folder, there are about a <i>dozen</I> threads discussing the merits and problems with BND/OMD in toto. If your comments are going to be limited to that, <b>please go there</b>. Let's keep the discussion in this thread about the topic, which is, the summer storyline.

Please don't make me start deleting...

MattB

Man, it's great to be one of the apparent 10% of participants in this page who is actually literate.

[RedSquirrel]

How is THIS story a rehash? Another Venom "spinoff" character, like Carnage. Same basic idea.

[roblewmac]

Is your enjoyment of spider man really hinged on whether he is married or not?
what would be wrong if IT DID? my own enjoyment of Spider-man was improved the marrige.
Also i'm not devoted enough to Marvel to pretend this happened by magic an editor that thinks "time-warping Devil deal" is a good plot does not leave me wih lot of interest in paying for more

[soupcan58]

I have been following BND as a reletively new (Ok first time in years) fan. I actually started at the beginning of OMD, and I LOATHED that storyline, even being the relative newbie that I was.

Now, I just wanna say, I am liking BND for the most part. There are moments and arcs that I really did not like (Freak, I'm lookin at your misplaced eyes here), but there are still some great moments in there. And being a fan of JR jr., I can't wait for this. He alone already has me ready to pick it up.

[ZeoVGM]

Another Venom "spinoff" character, like Carnage. Same basic idea.

Except you don't know anything about the character so you can't say it's a rehash.

And also, no. Sorry, but this isn't a rehash. Venom and Norman being part of the Thunderbolts and going after Spider-Man while MJ re-enters Peter's life and a new symbiote creature is walking around is not a "rehash".

You need to take the story as a whole, but of course the anti-BND fanboys are going to single out select pieces so they can tear it down.

[Drewr15]

Except you don't know anything about the character so you can't say it's a rehash.

And also, no. Sorry, but this isn't a rehash. Venom and Norman being part of the Thunderbolts and going after Spider-Man while MJ re-enters Peter's life and a new symbiote creature is walking around is not a "rehash".

You need to take the story as a whole, but of course the anti-BND fanboys are going to single out select pieces so they can tear it down.

Of course the Tbolts did go after Spidey before so it is a bit of a rehash.

I tried the first BND arc because I like Slott and McNiven and I found it rather lacking. I might try this one being that its JRjr and Slott again. And MJ's back apparently.

[Rype]

You know what would have been better than OMD and BND and all the stuff done to reinvent Spiderman?

Gravity. He was going to be the next Parker-like character in my mind.

Still, I would not have a problem with any of this if it was not hurting my feelings toward New Avengers. There was such a cool vibe there with Spidey and now I don't even know how to deal with Spidey there.

[Drewr15]

You know what would have been better than OMD and BND and all the stuff done to reinvent Spiderman?

Gravity. He was going to be the next Parker-like character in my mind.

Still, I would not have a problem with any of this if it was not hurting my feelings toward New Avengers. There was such a cool vibe there with Spidey and now I don't even know how to deal with Spidey there.

I agree about Gravity - really thought they had something there.

[cpahl2000]

the return of venom sounds good but I´m a little skeptical in regard to BNd and I´ll have to wait to see what´s is going to happen.

[cookiejar]

not a big fan of BND (IMO, the new villains are straight-up boring)... although the Mayan villains were cool... I page through it now...have only gotten half of what I normally did before BND.

Two things bringing me to this storyline:

1. JR JR.

2. JR JR can draw a pretty awesome venom (and actually I thought the "anti-venom was gonna be lame, until I saw the visuals.).

-Should be picking this up.

[cookiejar]

I agree about Gravity - really thought they had something there.

Actually, the next Spider-Man is already here, but he is not at Marvel.

His name is Invincible, and you should pick it up...definitely a good read.

[cookiejar]

That's because the story's bad, the new bad guys are derivative rip offs of more interesting villains, the supporting characters are lame and one dimensional and Peter seems to be missing his soul or has it replaced by Nick Katzenberg's. If those problems weren't there, people like me would be a lot more patient in waiting for explanations.

YES!

Nick Katzenberg!

...and I am an old enough fan to know who that is! (he got shot and is dead, right?)

[cpahl2000]

Actually, the next Spider-Man is already here, but he is not at Marvel.

His name is Invincible, and you should pick it up...definitely a good read.


` Nuff said!

[Andrew]

Glacier, I started reading Amazing Spider-Man again with Brand New Day. Sure, the repartee still isn't up to the level of Stan Lee or Len Wein, but at least the setting is "right" again (and who ever wrote "glib" as well as Lee or Wein?)

Personally, I believe Brand New Day didn't go far enough: Gwen Stacy should have been restored to the supporting cast as well. Killing her off was the Marvel equivalent of removing, say, Betty from the Archie titles. It throws the whole setup off balance.

Uh, no it didn't. Are you honestly saying that Spider-Man has been "off balance" for 35 years?

Gwen was never vital to the Spider-Man universe the way that Betty is in the Archie titles; she wasn't there from the beginning, and she had zero personality besides being the girlfriend. Gwen is far more effective as a dead character than she ever was when she was alive. Not to mention that she was only in the Spider-Man books for about 7 years and has been dead for 35.

But hey, I guess the clock was already turned back to 1980 for Spidey, why not go back another 10 years to 1970, right? :rolleyes:

[rwe1138]

<b>NRAMA</b>: And Dan - people seem to think of him as the quirky guy, writing stories with a hidden smirk in them. Yeah, <b>The Initiative</b> has changed some minds, but this sounds like a very...villain-y piece. So what're his scheming/evil stories like?
Anyone doubting Dan's ability to write villains needs to read Arkham Asylum: Living Hell. Phenomenal miniseries.

[DRDOOM25]

what would be wrong if IT DID? my own enjoyment of Spider-man was improved the marrige.
Also i'm not devoted enough to Marvel to pretend this happened by magic an editor that thinks "time-warping Devil deal" is a good plot does not leave me wih lot of interest in paying for more

I agree with you 100% and yes for me my enjoyment of 616 ASM does hinge on the fact that Spiderman and Mary Jane are married. It is one of those things that bothers me about Marvel...despite all the talent and all the great stories, the idea of the "family unit" is practically non-existent...sure you have some acceptions but Peter and MJ were perfect together and all of BND which other than reading spoilers is as close as I am going to get for this nonsense until the status quo is resurrected. Their love and marriage has become an extremely important factor in the mythos and frankly, all of what JQ said that eventually, he would have kids, then die...have you seen comics and how there aging is really slow? 10 real years seems to be like 1 comic year so frankly there is no reason why this marriage couldn't have continued....BND could have benefited from the marriage and still did everything else that the comics have done...what once was...shall never be!

[Liliaeth]

Uh, no it didn't. Are you honestly saying that Spider-Man has been "off balance" for 35 years?

Gwen was never vital to the Spider-Man universe the way that Betty is in the Archie titles; she wasn't there from the beginning, and she had zero personality besides being the girlfriend. Gwen is far more effective as a dead character than she ever was when she was alive. Not to mention that she was only in the Spider-Man books for about 7 years and has been dead for 35.

But hey, I guess the clock was already turned back to 1980 for Spidey, why not go back another 10 years to 1970, right? :rolleyes:


thank you!

Gwen was the worst female character in Spider-Man ever until Lilly Hollister. Even Randi, Candy and Bambi had more personality than her. I could be wrong, but it feels to me that the only people wanting Gwen back are those hung up on nostalgia for a period that lasted at most two years in the entire run of Spider-Man. By now it's not that people want Gwen back, as can be noticed by the fact that none of her present day incarnations have even the remotest bit in common with the char actually shown in regular continuity. It's that they want the fantasy they''ve build up of of her. (I mean seriously, just look at the Gwens in Spectacular Spider-Man, Ultimate Spider-Man, Spider-Man loves Mary Jane. None of them are anything at all like the one that died decades ago and because of that, all those Gwens are likeable, because unlike the char who's name they wear, they actually have a personality)

Killing Gwen Stacy was one of the best things that Marvel ever did. And I'm saying that as someone who usually opposes the idea of killing the girlfriend just to give the male hero some angst.

[greeneclipse]

You guys have gotta see OMD as a necessary band-aid that's been ripped off. And look-- the boo boo is gone! Put the band aid and the tears behind you and enjoy BND for what it is.

BND is nothing but a glorification of seflishness and immaturity. I don't appreciate being told that violating the wishes of a dying family member and trading your wife and child to the devil just so you can avoid having to feel guilt is heroic and relatable. I didn't appreciate it when Smallville had Clark Kent knowingly trade an innocent life in exchange for ressurecting Lana in the 100th episode and kill his own father in the process, I don't appreciate it here. In fact, I appreciate this less becase it's the source material telling me that selfish, immature behavior and disregarding responsibility what heroes are made of.

OMB was no "band-aid" at all. It was the comic book equivalent of knifing readers in the back and demanding to be thanked for it. It IS the boo-boo, one that no band-aid is going to fix. And all BND is doing is rubbing salt into the wound by rewarding Spider-Man for betraying everything he ever stood for. Unless you enjoy your heroes morally bankrupt and seeing evil celebrated and rewarded. there's nothing to like about BND.

[JLAJRC]

Glacier, I started reading Amazing Spider-Man again with Brand New Day. Sure, the repartee still isn't up to the level of Stan Lee or Len Wein, but at least the setting is "right" again (and who ever wrote "glib" as well as Lee or Wein?)

Personally, I believe Brand New Day didn't go far enough: Gwen Stacy should have been restored to the supporting cast as well. Killing her off was the Marvel equivalent of removing, say, Betty from the Archie titles. It throws the whole setup off balance.

I don't know if I would go as far as bringing Gwen back, but I do agree with you that they didn't go far enough. Frankly, I'm kinda ticked off that MJ is coming back. This title has definately improved since BND and her being gone was part of the reason. Frankly, I hoped they kill her off. Maybe Anti-Venom will fix that problem.

I wonder if Osborn will become Anti-Venom?

[Billy Parker]

This rules!

[Jomma]

Another Venom "spinoff" character, like Carnage. Same basic idea.

My exact same thoughts. Thank you.

[Faust]

That anti-venom reminds me of Bizarnage from amalgam.

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/bizrnage1.jpg

[RedPhoenix]

BND is nothing but a glorification of seflishness and immaturity. I don't appreciate being told that violating the wishes of a dying family member and trading your wife and child to the devil just so you can avoid having to feel guilt is heroic and relatable. I didn't appreciate it when Smallville had Clark Kent knowingly trade an innocent life in exchange for ressurecting Lana in the 100th episode and kill his own father in the process, I don't appreciate it here. In fact, I appreciate this less becase it's the source material telling me that selfish, immature behavior and disregarding responsibility what heroes are made of.

OMB was no "band-aid" at all. It was the comic book equivalent of knifing readers in the back and demanding to be thanked for it. It IS the boo-boo, one that no band-aid is going to fix. And all BND is doing is rubbing salt into the wound by rewarding Spider-Man for betraying everything he ever stood for. Unless you enjoy your heroes morally bankrupt and seeing evil celebrated and rewarded. there's nothing to like about BND.

Bingo. Spidey sucks and as much as I like Steve Wacker's work I won't support this.

[Duke Jupiter]

I've been reading Spider-Man comics on almost a regular basis since 1974. Wacker and his team of creators are doing a better job of telling Spidey stories now than the past 10 years worth of books combined. Too bad Marvel had to resort to OMD, but they did it, it's done so let's move on.

Only complaint I've got is that we need to see more of the supporting cast in these books. The supporting cast is what makes the book special. C'mon now!

- DJ

[RedSquirrel]

Except you don't know anything about the character so you can't say it's a rehash.

And also, no. Sorry, but this isn't a rehash. Venom and Norman being part of the Thunderbolts and going after Spider-Man while MJ re-enters Peter's life and a new symbiote creature is walking around is not a "rehash".

You need to take the story as a whole, but of course the anti-BND fanboys are going to single out select pieces so they can tear it down.
This has nothing to do with liking or disliking BND. And I didn't say rehash, I said spinoff.

I gave BND a fair chance BTW, bought the first arc, it just wasn't for me.

You're right, I don't know exactly what's going to happen with Anti-Venom, but I have a hunch it has something to do with Venom. Spinoff.

[Nathan Jewell]

BND is nothing but a glorification of seflishness and immaturity. I don't appreciate being told that violating the wishes of a dying family member and trading your wife and child to the devil just so you can avoid having to feel guilt is heroic and relatable. I didn't appreciate it when Smallville had Clark Kent knowingly trade an innocent life in exchange for ressurecting Lana in the 100th episode and kill his own father in the process, I don't appreciate it here. In fact, I appreciate this less becase it's the source material telling me that selfish, immature behavior and disregarding responsibility what heroes are made of.

OMB was no "band-aid" at all. It was the comic book equivalent of knifing readers in the back and demanding to be thanked for it. It IS the boo-boo, one that no band-aid is going to fix. And all BND is doing is rubbing salt into the wound by rewarding Spider-Man for betraying everything he ever stood for. Unless you enjoy your heroes morally bankrupt and seeing evil celebrated and rewarded. there's nothing to like about BND.

Wow. That perfectly sums up my own feelings about the whole thing. I wish I was astute enough to come up with that explantion on my own.

[saiyanspider]

ughh I hate the new venom design. I hope this brings Brock back as Venom and the suit goes back to it's old design...

[nightwingoracle]

As I said before OMD was a necessary evil. With past tries to get Peter single again(Clone Saga, Killing MJ) not working. Could they have kept them married sure. But right now the stories haven't been this good in a long time.And I loved JMS's run.

.


The main problem is not that Marvel got rid of the marriage....even though that was an idiotic thing to do and a slap in the face of many long-term readers, it could have been done well in a much more realistic fashion.

The problem is that Spider-Man and MJ made a deal with the devil....and heroes don't do that.

I won't support the mainstream Spider-Man. That deal went against everything the characters stood for.

[SuperBil]

BND is nothing but a glorification of seflishness and immaturity. I don't appreciate being told that violating the wishes of a dying family member and trading your wife and child to the devil just so you can avoid having to feel guilt is heroic and relatable. I didn't appreciate it when Smallville had Clark Kent knowingly trade an innocent life in exchange for ressurecting Lana in the 100th episode and kill his own father in the process, I don't appreciate it here. In fact, I appreciate this less becase it's the source material telling me that selfish, immature behavior and disregarding responsibility what heroes are made of.

OMB was no "band-aid" at all. It was the comic book equivalent of knifing readers in the back and demanding to be thanked for it. It IS the boo-boo, one that no band-aid is going to fix. And all BND is doing is rubbing salt into the wound by rewarding Spider-Man for betraying everything he ever stood for. Unless you enjoy your heroes morally bankrupt and seeing evil celebrated and rewarded. there's nothing to like about BND.


Kevin Spacey as Lex Luther might have put it this way... "There's nothing to like about BN..." "WRONG!!!!"

I'm loving BND and I am really looking forward to the "Anti-Venom" storyline. Furthermore I am really weary of all you "haters" talking about how Marvel stabbed all the Spider-Man fans in the back and yatta, yatta, yatta. Well "newsflash" I'm a Spider-Man fan. A BIG Spider-Man fan, and I have been all my life, and I don't feel stabbed in the back at all. In fact, I feel just the opposite. I feel like after many years, Marvel is finally showing some love for the webslinger and giving him the creative attention he deserves. I felt much more betrayed by stories like "Sins of the Father" and "The Other" than I'll EVER feel about OMD. Don't get me wrong... I thought OMD in itself was not a good story, or a good way to kick off BND, but it seems a lot of you think that Marvel should have taken a vote before they decided to do OMD/BND.

When it originally happened I thought Peter and MJ getting married was a terrible idea (still do). I also thought revealing Spider-Man's identity was stupid, but I don't recall anyone from Marvel ever calling me up and asking for my opinion, they just produced the stories and put them out there. I could choose to read them or not. I chose to continue reading, because I believe in the strength of the Spider-Man/Peter Parker character, and I knew that he could survive a few bad story ideas. I realize that he is a comic book character that has been around for almost half a century and the quality of his adventures will ebb and flow with the changing of editors, editors-in-chief, creative teams, etc. I always keep in mind that whatever is happening with Spidey (good or bad) it will eventually change. Sometimes I like the change, sometimes I don't, but I keep reading because I usually find more to like than not. So, just relax and enjoy the ride. If you take the time to give it chance, you'll find a lot to love about BND.

[beta-ray]

As much as I would like to see JR jr draw the Thunderbolts, I have to respectfully decline buying this issue.

The Anti-Venom creature is an extremely poor idea.

Really? Cool, can you explain to me the idea behind this character? His origin, his motivation, the major plot points he covers? Thanks1

[beta-ray]

That's because the story's bad, the new bad guys are derivative rip offs of more interesting villains, the supporting characters are lame and one dimensional and Peter seems to be missing his soul or has it replaced by Nick Katzenberg's. If those problems weren't there, people like me would be a lot more patient in waiting for explanations.

For some reason I thought the characters were derivative for a reason. I could be wrong, but it was just a hunch. We'll see I guess.

Can you tell me how you feel he's lost his soul and how he is now "a sleazy, slimy waste of space"? I honestly don't see it. Since the late 80s I have only been picking up Spidey occassionally, and haven't seen Spidey be THAT three dimensional in the mid-late 90s...

[JKA]

Change it to talk about New Ways to Die.

I think the more important topic than Anti-Venom is Kraven maybe coming back, and more importantly, Mary Jane. She looks really sad though.

[Alextron]

I just can't believe anything they say about Spider-man anymore. The credibility is gone. They killed him, revealed him, changed his powers, changed his costume (twice), and changed him into a person that isn't like Spider-man at all. They kept promising that all that was going to pay-off and what happened was them essentially quitting a story. They can't even leave Kraven alone. Forget it!

[G8kpr3000]

Anti-Venom? Oh good lord... Am I the only one here that thinks this is yet another stupid idea? How many "variations" are they going to do on the symbiote story line before they've finally drove the whole thing into the ground. I'm getting pretty sick of the whole thing myself, and it's just one more reason why I'm not going to be buying any more Spider-man comics for a loooong while.

I also hate how they're doing the covers now, they're trying to be all "60's retro" but instead they're achieving "ugly".

It's really heart-breaking to see how poorly Spider-man is done these days. I know a lot of fans are totally into this new incarnation, but it's just not the same. I'm sticking with Ultimate Spider-man.

[abaddon667]

Wow...I can't believe how many people are still buying this title since 'Brand New Day' started. I still stand by my opinions that this is all such a HUGE step backwards, and I'd rather save my money and re-read my back issues than pay for this rehash. Spider-Man is just so lame now.


I think you are missing out!

[Salieri]

He is going to BURN for that empanada comment...

[newfoundma]

I think this means we'll finally get that New Avengers vs. New Thunderbolts fight people have been asking for
Check out Invaders/Avengers for a tease of that.

[Liliaeth]

For some reason I thought the characters were derivative for a reason. I could be wrong, but it was just a hunch. We'll see I guess.

Can you tell me how you feel he's lost his soul and how he is now "a sleazy, slimy waste of space"? I honestly don't see it. Since the late 80s I have only been picking up Spidey occassionally, and haven't seen Spidey be THAT three dimensional in the mid-late 90s...


Well I can tell you several, but just to give you one example. The fact that he took those intentionally badlooking pictures of Lilly's dad, actually sold them and then didn't even have the strenght to admit to doing so.

If he had even a shred of the real Peter Parker in him, he'd have quit over that. He might have considered selling them,but the real Peter would have realized that doing so was wrong and would have quit before selling them. Because he had standards, he knew the difference between right and wrong.

See, it's one thing to sell pictures of himself to Jonah, knowing that he's the only one who's going to be hurt by them, but the moment he knowingly and intentionally took pictures to discredit and thus harm another innocent person,... that's just not Peter.

Before BND, the parts with Peter out of costume were often my favorite part of the comic, because Peter was a good and moral man in an out of costume. Since BND the only time he's shown even a shred of integrity is when he was wearing the mask. It was what made Carly's statement to that detective guy that much of a ridiculous lie, because she hasn't seen Peter show any integrity whatsoever.

On top of that, when are these writers going to try and actually made the supporting cast interesting rather than make them boring background scenery. By the time Blue Beetle was in its fifth issue, every single member of the supporting cast was loveable, awesome and unforgettable. BND has had what, nine, ten, issues now, and not a single member of the supporting cast has even a hint of a personality. They could all easily be replaced and you would hardly even notice.

And this with a book like Amazing that used to be known for having one of the strongest supporting casts in comics.

Soap opera nonsense does not make a supporting cast interesting. And so far they've done nothing to breathe any kind of life into these new chars to make us give a damn about any of them.

Compared to the Betty Brant in FNS, the one shown in BND comes off as lifeless and flat. And it doesn't feel like they're trying even the slightest bit of effort in changing that.

This new arc, it doesn't feel like anything new. Sure I've never cared much about Venom one way or another, but this whole thing feels sillier and more boring than Maximum Carnage and at least in MC Spidey was still in character, which so far he hasn't been in BND.

Even Kelly comes up with some more stuff about kicking Peter in the head, but when are any of these people doing even a single arc that has Peter truly victorious. That makes him look, not like someone to be pitied, but like a hero who overcomes, who wins, who's an example to others. Because so far, he looks like he's stepped right out of the Boys and any moment now, some guys in black are gonna come in and beat the crap out of him up for endangering innocent people on a hunt for thrills and money.

See, I want to be able to identify with Peter, but the character they've been showing so far just embarrasses me. And I've never seen the joke in throwing a pie in the same guys face over and over again, it gets sickening pretty fast.

When I buy comics, when I buy Spider-Man, I don't want to read about a loser who does nothing but make mistakes. I want to read about a hero, someone who's better than us. If this Peter Parker is the writer's idea of a regular guy, then I'd have to say that their idea of 'regular guy' aka their readers is pretty insulting.

[Sano]

As I said before, I'm not a fan of BND but I am a fan of Eddie Brock and JRJR so I'll be checking this arc out. If it gets me hooked, sure I may go back and get the rest of the BND and convert, who knows. But they have these issues to sell me on BND. We'll see. The issues of BND that I read in store I didn't care for, but who knows.

In the end, I don't really care what BND Spider-Man does anymore, I still feel he will end up with Mary Jane Watson and May will be born even if it's not in our reading time. Much like MJ eluded to during OMD. So until they up and blow Mary Jane's brains out I will still think that this will be Spider-Man's future. At the very least there are places I can still read about Married Spider-Man.

- Stan Lee's comic strip. BTW, this one is free and you can read it online.
- Spider-Girl
- Defalco's upcoming Mr. and Mrs. Spider-Man section in Spider-Man Family.

So yeah, I am thankfull that there are still three places where I can read about a married Spider-Man. Heck, it freaking beats complaining about BND on this site over and over AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER AND OVER again. I feel at this point some of us married fans are just bothering people who are enjoying BND Spider-Man. So I'll just go where I can read married Spider-Man and let things be.

[wallywalters]

Uh, no it didn't.

Yes it did.

[JusticeDemon]

Of COURSE Peter is different post OMD!

Frankly, I'm sick of people so short-sighted they can't see what OMD did for Spider-Man as a whole. Yes, they can continue telling stories that make Spider-Man look like a great guy with a hot wife and a penthouse view, but where's the fun in that? Marvel Editorial took a chance to re-define Peter Parker for a new generation and you haters act like they raped your dog.

Yes, Peter took bad photos and kept it a secret. This is a guy who (as far as he knows) has been keeping the mother of all secrets since he was 15! Living that kind of solitary double-life will take its toll, and unless Marvel Editorial is crazy enough to actually listen to some of you, we're just going to have to accept that Peter is different now in that respect. If you recall, Peter has already struggled with the whole bad-photo-thing and I'll bet my left nut that he'll suffer the consequences for it in the next few issues.

Bottom line, we learn more about our beloved characters through their mistakes than anything else. How Peter deals with these problems THIS time around says as much about who he is as a person as how he dealt with them before. Don't forget, Peter still remembers everything he's learned up until now - just with a few missing elements. The emotions, the ramifications of his choices, everything that has made him the hero he was... that still happened. Even Mephisto has limits, and Peter's core character is still there. Now Peter gets the chance to handle his secret identity, his single status, his friendship with Harry and possibly even his relationship with MJ the way he SHOULD have. The way he would have if he were given the chance to do it all over again - which in a way he was.

We get to watch Spider-Man become the hero we all know he is all over again, and I can't wait.

[nickmarino]

i could get down with this whole Anti-Venom thing. i hope they actually use the name "Anti-Venom" -- makes it goofy but creepy at the same time. it's also better than calling the new baddie "Poizon" or something eXtreme like that.

what's the deal with the James Bond title, "New Ways to Die"? i like that too but it's very Timothy Dalton, if you follow me.

[ShanLeeCook]

I'm not against bringing old villains back, but I liked seeing new villains too.
At the same time, I'm really looking foward to seeing Osborn in ASM again.

[Keith!]

Originally Posted by Glacier
Wow...I can't believe how many people are still buying this title since 'Brand New Day' started. I still stand by my opinions that this is all such a HUGE step backwards, and I'd rather save my money and re-read my back issues than pay for this rehash. Spider-Man is just so lame now.

Your loss.

Well, guys and gals, I admire what Marvel was TRYING to do w/Spidey, but why'd they compromise the basic tenets of their flagship character to do it? And the whole Mr. Negative and Anti-Venom...I'm all for new baddies, but can't we get more creative? Or, at least, if not more creative, have some more FUN with the names?

As a writer and editor myself, I've been writing my version of "Brand New Day"...a comics review from oveh the pond gave me a nice write-up:
http://biffbampowcomics.blogspot.com/2008/04/feature-web-comic-wednesday-presents.html

The actual stories are here: http://blog.myspace.com/planitrealities

My goal was to show there was a huge world of possibilities in what Marvel had created by unmasking Pete and making him a fugitive, AND to show it could be done w/out leaving every reader in the continuity dark.

Would love to get some feedback from folks on here!

Keith!

[Keith!]

I been saying the same thing...n the fact that Slott wrote the Mr. N story is a clue.
Sooo, we get two characters whose names display a great lack of creativity for the PRICE OF ONE! Woo-hooo!

I think the concept of the anti-Venom is fun, but, as I said above, a more fun or exciting name would've been great. Someone above said "Poizon" as a joke, but it IS better. Nega-Venom? White Slime? White Death? Toxin? Para-Spite?! Sin-Biote! Heh. I like that one. Makes me smile.

Anyway, a little creativity woulda been nice is all I'm sayin'.