CONNECTING THE COUNTDOWN & FINAL CRISIS DOTS WITH DAN DIDIO [Archive]

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MattBrady

03-13-2008, 04:46 PM

<a href="http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/FinalCrisis/CTDW-Cv2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/FinalCrisis/t_CTDW-Cv2.jpg" border="0" align="right"></a>This week sees Countdown to Final Crisis #7 hit, which is followed by DC Universe #0 and then, Final Crisis #1. The three aren’t connected – directly, but yet they all work together to tell the larger picture of the DC Universe…in their own ways.

Confusing enough yet?

We sat down with DCU Executive Editor Dan DiDio to connect the dots between the three, get some teases on what’s coming up and who’s involved, and even perhaps get some connections to Seven Soldiers?

Newsarama: Dan, we’re at the point where Countdown ton Final Crisis is in the home stretch, DC Universe #0 is coming, as is Final Crisis itself. Before we get into the specifics of the connections between the three, let’s nail this down – is there a linear progression from one to the next to the next, or is the throughline (if there is one) more thematic?

Dan DiDio: There are a lot of themes and characters that carry through from Countdown into #0, and then ultimately into Final Crisis. One of the things we saw though, was when we had events break as big as things like the Sinestro Corps War, I thought it was important for us to reflect those stories in our #0 book as well. We’ve already hinted about what “Blackest Night” is, and hinted at the big story that’s coming a year from now, but it’s not that it’s just going to fade away and disappear until it starts – it will be prevalent throughout the Green Lantern books, so we wanted to reflect that.

Plus – there are other big stories coming. There’s a big story coming up in Wonder Woman that really throws off the status quo in that series. This is a story that Gail has really championed and pushed through, so we wanted to reflect that in the #0 book too. That’s one of the reasons why we went from Countdown #1 to DC Universe #0.

And the other thing too – and this speaks to the collected edition aspect, which we have to consider, we wanted a definitive ending for the book so that when people bought and read the series of collections as they come out, they will feel that they have had a complete story experience. So we want to wrap up a lot of the storylines and beats from Countdown in issue #1, because the zero book is supposed to serve as a springboard to all the events that followed. The title also makes it easier for us to wrap our heads around it too – this is a separate entity, a separate project. It doesn’t need to be collected up in with all the Countdown material.

NRAMA: A clean break?

<a href="http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/FinalCrisis/DCUniverse-Cv0.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/FinalCrisis/t_DCUniverse-Cv0.jpg" border="0" align="left"></a>DD: Exactly. And we needed that – for collected edition reasons, for story reasons, and for going into Final Crisis. And also – and to be very frank, one of the reasons that we didn’t call this Final Crisis #0 is that J.G. Jones is working on all the art for Final Crisis and we wanted the Final Crisis title and book to be his moment, his story, his book. So I didn’t want to put something with the Final Crisis name on it without J.G.’s involvement.

And although J.G. has contributed a small piece to DC Universe #0 as Final Crisis moves forward, it will really be J.G. and Grant’s work, and I want it to be whole and pure in that sense. More importantly, I’m in close contact with Grant and J.G., and not only are all of us extremely confident that we’re going to tell the strongest stories possible, but it will be there when everybody expects it to be.

<a href="http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/FinalCrisis/FinalCrisis1.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/FinalCrisis/t_FinalCrisis1.jpg" border="0" align="right"></a>NRAMA: Talking about the continuation of the threads from Countdown into Final Crisis, let’s get specific, or as specific as we can. You’ve said before that Final Crisis is when “evil wins” in the DC Universe. You can’t have a day where evil wins in the DC Universe without Darkseid…

DD: Absolutely. And based on the final events in both Death of the New Gods and Countdown, you would think that would be difficult to do, but as I’ve started saying, look towards things that were set up in Seven Soldiers of Victory, and ultimately at some of the threads that are going to be set up at the end of Countdown, and you’ll get an idea of what’s on the way with Darkseid in Final Crisis.

NRAMA: Grant mentioned the Seven Soldiers ties of Final Crisis when we recently spoke with him. When he originally came to you with the idea for Seven Soldiers, was Final Crisis even on the books? Or was this all a subtle thread that he laid down that perhaps one day he would get back to?

DD: When I first met with Grant when I got to DC, he had a “Crisis” idea – he always had a vision on how the DCU can progress and grow and go through a metamorphosis. That was something that was set down over five years ago, and…I’m speaking from a weak memory here, but I think that in some ways, it might have been reverse – some of the ideas from Grant’s larger “Crisis” idea actually went into Seven Soldiers more so than the other way around. He had ideas on what he wanted to do with the DCU way back when, and this is his chance for him to really tell that big story.

NRAMA: Going back to the “connect the dots” theme…the New Gods as they were portrayed in Seven Soldiers: Mr. Miracle seem like you could match them up with what has happened or perhaps where things may be headed, given that they were shown as no longer being in their original bodies, being on earth, and being more or less “avatars,” which is what has been hinted that Jimmy Olsen is carrying. Any credence to that notion?

DD: I think that’s a very clear assessment. I’ll add that there will be echoes of that story that are playing through the DC Universe as well. Not directly tying to Final Crisis, but rather there to show that this is one cohesive universe.

NRAMA: Are you suggesting that readers have perhaps already read stories or seen the DCU as it exists after Final Crisis?

DD: I won’t say that, but I will say that they will have seen some of the events that will be playing out throughout Final Crisis already. There were several great themes taking place in Grant’s Seven Soldiers, but probably the key beats that will be expanded upon are centered around the four-part Mr. Miracle miniseries.

NRAMA: Moving along with continuing characters – the Monitors. Again, just like you can’t have evil win without Darkseid, can you have a Crisis without Monitors?

DD: Nope. One of the things that you’ve seen in Countdown that really plays a central role in the DCU is that the Monitors started out as a homogeneous race, and now are becoming very distinctive and separate in their personalities, and you’ll find out why they’ve started to separate in that fashion as we get into Final Crisis.

NRAMA: Well, folding those last two together, in Seven Soldiers , there were characters with Dark Side…

DD: The Dark Side Club – a group of characters with names and attitudes that were very reminiscent of a number of the New Gods. That will be coming into play in the DCU, both in Final Crisis and outside of Final Crisis as well in a number of series throughout the year, too, including Teen Titans.

<a href="http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/FinalCrisis/LIBRA-jg-jones.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/FinalCrisis/t_LIBRA-jg-jones.jpg" border="0" align="left"></a>NRAMA: Again touching upon the comment about evil winning – the villains…

DD: Right - what’s the point of evil winning if the villains can’t celebrate?

Again, so much of what we’ve been doing and so much of what we’ve been weaving in with the villains of the DCU is essential to the storylines of Final Crisis. We’ve hinted at and teased with images of the character Libra, and he will come to be center stage for the super villains in the DC Universe.

NRAMA: Center stage how? When he appeared previously, he was fairly minor and fairly lame…how does one go from lame to center stage?

DD: Well, I find it hard to believe that a story by Grant and J.G. will leave anyone feeling lame [laughs]. I will say that you’ll see Libra in DC Universe #0, in a Justice League story that wraps up some of the throughlines from Salvation Run, and more importantly, you’ll see Libra front and center in Final Crisis.

NRAMA: With Libra – in his last/only appearance…he…what, dissipated?

DD: He became one with the universe, right.

NRAMA: So his return then – is this something that’s just happened, or did he return earlier than what’s being shown, and has been lying low for a while?

DD: [laughs] I’m sorry – there’s some static on the line with that question…can we try a different question?

NRAMA: How about we touch upon the teaser images that you’ve used – there’s been one for Libra, one for Mongul and one for Brainiac with two bottled cities. Is that something that will come to play in Final Crisis, or is that a Superman-centric storyline?

DD: That’s only because we can only fit two bottled cities in the picture [laughs]. But yeah – that’s for Superman – he’ll be front and center in some of the Superman storylines coming up in the remainder of the year, Mongul will be the same in some of the Green Lantern storylines coming up, and Libra will be in Final Crisis.

NRAMA: Any more of them coming?

DD: Yeah – the next ad will be of Hush, which means he’ll be coming into play in upcoming Batman stories.

<center> <a href="http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/FinalCrisis/HUSH-motivational-ad.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/FinalCrisis/t_HUSH-motivational-ad.jpg" border="0"></a></center>

NRAMA: Batman or Detective?

DD: That’s going to be in Detective. Those “anti-motivational” ads are there to give broad stroke ideas of the exciting things that are going to be happening in the DCU throughout the year. They’re not just about Final Crisis. Again, the way we structured it is that you don’t need to buy every single book in the DC Universe. Final Crisis is the major event, but these other storylines will be occurring in parallel. We have major storylines with Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and the Justice League occurring throughout the year. Everybody and everything will be involved in major stories and major events.

NRAMA: Getting back to the Final Crisis throughline – it’s been said both by Grant and you that the Alpha Lanterns will be playing a role in it. Does that touch upon the idea that the Guardians are involved in Final Crisis?

<a href="http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/FinalCrisis/GL27_Alpha.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/FinalCrisis/t_GL27_Alpha.jpg" border="0" align="right"></a>DD: The Alpha Lanterns and Guardians do play a prominent role throughout Final Crisis. Because Geoff and Grant were working so closely together, Geoff had the opportunity to really establish the Alpha Lanterns in their own right prior to their appearance in Final Crisis so that everybody knows who they are and knows what their motivation is, so when they appear in Final Crisis, they can hit the ground running.

NRAMA: Countdown put a lot of Jack Kirby’s DC characters and settings front a center for a revisit or reinterpretation. Will that continue into Final Crisis, or will that be lessened, given that we’re moving from the Fourth World into the Fifth World?

DD: Everything that Kirby created plays deeply into the Fifth World concepts. The Kirby contribution to the DC Universe was a great one, and we want to pay tribute to it, while integrating it fully within the DC Universe so it doesn’t stand off to the side, separate, but it a fully functional, operating part of the DCU.

There are so many rich ideas, so many wonderful stories that we can expand on, take advantage of and grow from. We took the OMAC concept and reinterpreted it and brought it forward through the DC Universe – that will continue to grow and play into Final Crisis and throughout the DCU. We use the joke, which is not really a joke, that Final Crisis is all about the DC Universe, from Anthro to Kamandi – the first boy on earth to the last. That’s something that you’ll be seeing also. There are so many great concepts and ideas from Kirby that will be brought into Final Crisis - some that you’ve seen in the past, some that haven’t been seen in a very long time. The Kirby creations were great material for stories then, and is great material for stories now.

NRAMA: Finally – let’s hit the schedule one more time…May is #1, and then the break happens in…

DD: The break happens in August, but we’re not going to let things sit with nothing coming your way. There will be a lot of excitement in that month coinciding with that break. We have a number of one shots that will fill in the gap of what happened during the break, but also we’ll be starting a couple of key storylines in their own projects that will tie into Final Crisis by the series’ end.

Tomwaitsfan

03-13-2008, 04:55 PM

First post:D :D Is that hush?

Marius665

03-13-2008, 04:57 PM

HUSH IS BACK BABY!!!

gwangung

03-13-2008, 04:59 PM

....the DC Universe is getting darker because the villains are winning hm?

phunengames

03-13-2008, 04:59 PM

I was hoping you would ask him to spill the beans on the 2nd teaser image.

GSHAG

03-13-2008, 05:02 PM

HUSH?! (in best marv albert voice) YES!!!!!!!!!!!!

alaska1125

03-13-2008, 05:02 PM

It'll be interesting to see how Hush fits into the big picture. Not quite "New God" level.

von Doom, M.D.

03-13-2008, 05:07 PM

Hush, eh?

Could be interesting IF it's Dini.

And is this the third or fourth "anti-motivational" image?

There was Mongul, then Brainiac. Is the Libra one out, or is Hush the third one?

rpi

03-13-2008, 05:08 PM

As pumped as I am for most of it, I'm dreading that Darkseid vs. Jimmy picture. I cannot think of a limper way to finish off as limp series as Countdown was. Also, after what Lieberman did with Hush, I'd have been more than happy to never see the character return. If Dini's writing it then that's promising...I guess. On the other hand, I'm very happy to see Seven Soldiers being touched on again. I do kind of wonder if all the secrecy with Final Crisis isn't going to end up backfiring? I know I should be excited about it but I'm not really because all I know about it is that it starts with Kamandi, ends with some other kid or something, and is being done by Morrison and Jones. Oh yeah, the New Gods are in it somewhere. Wooo?

Marius665

03-13-2008, 05:10 PM

It'll be interesting to see how Hush fits into the big picture. Not quite "New God" level.

who cares? as long as he kills some one:D

maybe, a red ring...na, he don't need it

I'm so happy he's back I wanna slap someone, where's my boss?

yonofui

03-13-2008, 05:13 PM

First post:D :D Is that hush?

Yeah! Hush is back! DC left him in the limbo for so long...

And why are the Hulk and the abomination fighting in the first image? This is how they see in the movie, right?

Sorry I could not resist! :D

Fecal Yeti

03-13-2008, 05:14 PM

Why wasn't didio asked how many issues have been completed and if they're still on schedule????

Tomwaitsfan

03-13-2008, 05:15 PM

Why wasn't didio asked how many issues have been completed and if they're still on schedule????
Don't worry bout it. It'll come out!!!:rolleyes:

greenflameuk

03-13-2008, 05:19 PM

And also – and to be very frank, one of the reasons that we didn’t call this Final Crisis #0 is that J.G. Jones is working on all the art for Final Crisis and we wanted the Final Crisis title and book to be his moment, his story, his book. So I didn’t want to put something with the Final Crisis name on it without J.G.’s involvement.

And although J.G. has contributed a small piece to DC Universe #0 as Final Crisis moves forward, it will really be J.G. and Grant’s work, and I want it to be whole and pure in that sense. More importantly, I’m in close contact with Grant and J.G., and not only are all of us extremely confident that we’re going to tell the strongest stories possible, but it will be there when everybody expects it to be.
Wonder if that'll be enough to shut up the people complaining about the book being late or possibly having fill-ins?.

ubuking

03-13-2008, 05:19 PM

I can't wait for this..:) When can we have some previews?

adama

03-13-2008, 05:19 PM

Is Spectre reaching for the hand of.... God?

izzatrix

03-13-2008, 05:20 PM

TheMaxx

03-13-2008, 05:22 PM

Awesome! I hope that they act like that Gotham Knights crap never happened.

EMeadow

03-13-2008, 05:23 PM

Very interesting to see how Seven Soldiers is working in this, especially Mr. Miracle.

Its at least a way to keep the characters around, while letting their old looks die (if they all get transported permanently into those bodies, or just Darksied does).

alaska1125

03-13-2008, 05:24 PM

Jimmy Olsen vs Darkseid...I may now officially have been reading comics longer than I should have. :p

EMeadow

03-13-2008, 05:25 PM

Is Spectre reaching for the hand of.... God?

Its gotta be Krona.

Marius665

03-13-2008, 05:29 PM

Awesome! I hope that they act like that Gotham Knights crap never happened.

Amen to that:)

jmcl89

03-13-2008, 05:29 PM

Why wasn't didio asked how many issues have been completed and if they're still on schedule????

"I’m in close contact with Grant and J.G., and not only are all of us extremely confident that we’re going to tell the strongest stories possible, but it will be there when everybody expects it to be."

I don't know if he's telling the truth, but he did answer the question.

Jiminy Snick

03-13-2008, 05:30 PM

Just had to nitpick, but before I do, let me say that I do in fact like some of what Dan Didio has done at DC, and at least he is pushing, sometimes it may not work, but at least he is pushing some good ideas, and I am looking forward to Final Crisis.

I suspect at the very least that Final Crisis will wash the bad taste of Countdown out of my mouth.

I think that the OYL jumps and Countdown were both mis-steps on DC's part - though I liked all the new OYL titles, and Superman and Action. I think Wonder Woman would have been good had it been finished, and look forward to reading the completed story at some point.

Okay, with a smirk on my face, and a tounge in my cheek, I have to nitpick now:

that really throws off the status quo [/B]in that series. This is a story that Gail has really championed and pushed through, so we wanted to reflect that in the #0 book too. That’s one of the reasons why we went from Countdown #1 to DC Universe #0.

I'm sorry, but "status quo" in Wonder Woman? I am liking Gail's storyline so far, and think anything she will come up with will undoubtedly be great, but comments like this from Dan hammer home my impression that he is totally out of touch right now.

Wonder Woman, and post OYL, hasn't had the remotest possible chance to develop anything even approximating a "status quo".

and this speaks to the collected edition aspect, which we have to consider, we wanted a definitive ending for the book so that when people bought and read the series of collections as they come out, they will feel that they have had a complete story experience.

This cracks me up to no end - does Dan really think that TPB or HC sales of Countdown are actually going to be that big? My god, if I bought Countdown as a trade, I would wonder even more why the hell, every few pages is a retread of what I read 6 or seven pages earlier!

SouthtownKid

03-13-2008, 05:33 PM

Jimmy Olsen tussling with Darkseid has to top the list of things I never thought I'd see. Better him than Snapper Carr, I guess.

caats19

03-13-2008, 05:35 PM

i love those ads

shadow-ray

03-13-2008, 05:39 PM

Is Spectre reaching for the hand of.... God?
It's the Anti-Monitor.

Check out page 293 of the CoIE hardcover

Lex

03-13-2008, 05:40 PM

I'm very excited about Final Crisis. I have high hopes that Morrison is going to tell a great, self-contained story.

Also, if there's anyone who can make Hush an interesting character, that would be Paul Dini.

More importantly, I’m in close contact with Grant and J.G., and not only are all of us extremely confident that we’re going to tell the strongest stories possible, but it will be there when everybody expects it to be.
I don't get upset when a book is late, but it's great to know Final Crisis is on schedule. There's been a lot of speculating about that. *shakes fist at Rich Johnston*

Snikkas

03-13-2008, 05:41 PM

First post:D :D Is that hush?

Good job reading the article before your FIRST POST malarkey

The Teaser Images DC is releasing for this are so much better than the Skrullified Marvel Universe

Kamandi2

03-13-2008, 05:42 PM

And is this the third or fourth "anti-motivational" image?

There was Mongul, then Brainiac. Is the Libra one out, or is Hush the third one?

Hush is 4th. Libra has been in the last few weeks of DC books.

Punchy

03-13-2008, 05:44 PM

I am tentatively excited about this.

DC has been in a pretty big slump recently, I think this could be the thing to bring them back.

worldsfinest

03-13-2008, 05:45 PM

Thalya

03-13-2008, 05:47 PM

....the DC Universe is getting darker because the villains are winning hm?
That remark reminds me of something said by Chronos in Identity Crisis #4 about how "We (the villains)'ll still win." It was during the Risk boardgame scene at Merlyn's.

ob kenobi

03-13-2008, 05:53 PM

I was hoping Hush would work his way into the Morrison run on Batman, but Detective will do, if Dini is writing.

Speaking of the Gotham Knights run. I think they are acting like that never happened because the Joker doesn't seem to be walking with a bomb on the heart anymore. What a lame ending to a mediocre story. Although, I think they might have referenced it in the Red Hood storyline.

Maybe Jimmy Olsen will be in the Cloverfield sequel...

superboy072

03-13-2008, 05:54 PM

I don't care if the book is a little late as long as it's good. Is that too much to ask?

jgiannantoni

03-13-2008, 06:01 PM

KyleV

03-13-2008, 06:05 PM

Confirmation of the skip month is nice to hear. Jones was working on #2 a few weeks ago and he gets a break after #3 (well, not so much a break as a chance to gain ground).

While I don't know that he's known for his speed, it seems like he should have the first three issues at least in the can before the first issue hits in May.

I think the finale will be the only close one.

RunnerX13

03-13-2008, 06:09 PM

<a href="http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/FinalCrisis/CTDW-Cv2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/FinalCrisis/t_CTDW-Cv2.jpg"

For the love of the New Gods, let Darkseid wear pants!

Moriarty

03-13-2008, 06:10 PM

While I wish Hush would stay dead, I'm nonetheless curious to see how Dini will handle him.

SouLeSS

03-13-2008, 06:12 PM

Final Crisis is the major event, but these other storylines will be occurring in parallel. We have major storylines with Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman and the Justice League occurring throughout the year. Everybody and everything will be involved in major stories and major events.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

SpaceButler

03-13-2008, 06:31 PM

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

What about that is problematic? Isn't that what a lot of people have been asking for a while? That characters have their major milestones in their own books and not get swallowed up by the big universe wide events that disrupt runs and story lines? Big stories in the main books should be major events. Better that than having them in a holding pattern waiting for the crisis to end.

kaykordeath

03-13-2008, 06:34 PM

I'm really gonna have to get myself moving and read Seven Soldiers in the next month or three, huh?

(not a complaint)

Ozan

03-13-2008, 06:42 PM

me love Kirby stuff long time. me ready ready

Jac_el40

03-13-2008, 06:46 PM

who do you think hal and stewart are looking over on the DC universe cover?

Capt_Piett

03-13-2008, 06:57 PM

Hush is not big news. Didio said before this would be a big year for him.

BUT Gotham Knights hurt the Hush character, and that better be forgotten.

At this point, DC is going to have to do alot to make me care about Hush again.

Loeb's Batman Hush is overrated anyway.

DC just wants to milk it now.

Disagree strongly with your thoughts on Loeb's Hush, which is where the character originated. I am also curious if they will include the events of Gotham Knights or keep them seperate and pick up where Hush left off in Batman at the end of Loeb's run. While admittedly there were some interesting elements in GK with the Hush plot, it largely seemed to go nowhere in the end. Perhaps that's because the title was cancelled, but either way....

And it was Hush who had the bomb on his heart, not the Joker....

And if Dini or Morrison is writing Hush, that could indeed be interesting. If not, I'm agreeing...they'll have to make you care about him again.

target242

03-13-2008, 07:00 PM

I love the anitmotivational ads..they are great. Same goes for Countdown...were'nt the ads building up to Coutdown far better than the actual product? Remember those great lines: Seduction of the Innocent (Mary Marvel)..Jimmy Olsen Must Die!, Look Up In The Sky, etc. DC Promotion is top notch...too bad the product was so bad! :(

I hope and pray that Final Crisis is the bomb (in a good way)...and not in the blows up in your face way! Here's best wishes to Morrison and Company!

The other thing that i don't want to see happen is the overmilking of concepts. 52 was great...a hit...."Hey let's get another one out there quick: Countdown......!" oooops...not so good. "Wow, Sinestro Corps War was a major surprise and hit.....let's get Blackest Night out there....." I am so desperately wanting DC to get the stars all aligned in their execution: Good Story + Good Art + Timely Releases = BINGO!

omacv4

03-13-2008, 07:03 PM

i'm totally confused now. i thought the 7S stuff already happened. the 7S mr. miracle showed up in the final issues of firestorm, and the 7S characters were featured on the final pages of IC. so how is this all going to fit together? never mind the fact that 7S:MM was god awful (pun intended). it was the weakest of the minis, and i never understood what happened in it. and that's the problem with morrison. sometimes he's so existential that his stuff just goes over my head.

jgiannantoni

03-13-2008, 07:07 PM

Anybody like me considering not buying the individual issues of Final Crisis because DC will just release an uncut hardcover that adds scenes and noticeably changes dialogue?

I'm not sure what I'll do, but I was not happy about my IC issues after the hardcover came out.

gwangung

03-13-2008, 07:26 PM

For the love of the New Gods, let Darkseid wear pants!

Darkseid is so badass, he can wear short shorts and still be a prime villain...

Dr Manolis Dooplove

03-13-2008, 07:35 PM

are people still getting excited over Hush? talk about a Cypher! i dont see the appeal of him, either a a character or visually...

Zombie Uatu

03-13-2008, 08:00 PM

Surely Jimmy Olsen - the most normal person in a world of giants, the kid struggling to make his way in the world, the struggling everyman, watched over by Gods - is the only person who logically could or should fight Darkseid, the embodiment of anti-life, tyranny and hatred? Isn't the whole sense of Darkseid's scale lost if he's just fighting Superman?

grendel824

03-13-2008, 08:22 PM

I'm hoping for a return of Prometheus as something other than a third-rate lackey. The "anti-Batman" should not be doing thug-work for an average Bat-villain...

Herald

03-13-2008, 08:49 PM

None of this sounds interesting. Heroes acting heroically is what I want to read. Not about their deaths, failings, dismemberments and disgraces. Its time somebody replace Dan Didio and get this sinking ship back on track.

Co-signed. The villains ALREADY win all the time. See World War III, the Emoboy Prime one-shot. This upcoming stuff is clearly no different at all.

Call me when DiDio finally remembers that the HEROES are supposed to win... :rolleyes:

jef1963

03-13-2008, 08:52 PM

Even though I bought every Countdown, I have felt a little, well non-plussed about where this was all going. This interview does make me feel a litle better. I hope I don't have to have too much knowledge of 7Soldiers to really enjoy the Final Crisis, though.

God-Man

03-13-2008, 08:53 PM

Ah cool Darkman is coming back.

Jomma

03-13-2008, 08:55 PM

Loeb's Batman Hush is overrated anyway.

Correction!

Grant Morrison on Batman is overrated...Hush>Any story by Morrison for Batman.

cubsrule!

03-13-2008, 08:55 PM

This week sees Countdown to Final Crisis #7 hit, which is followed by DC Universe #0 and then, Final Crisis #1. The three aren’t connected – directly, but yet they all work together to tell the larger picture of the DC Universe…in their own ways.

Confusing enough yet?

Maybe I'm a supergenius, and I'm not aware of it, but that's not that hard to follow, is it?

cubsrule!

03-13-2008, 08:56 PM

Correction!

Grant Morrison on Batman is overrated...Hush>Any story by Morrison for Batman.

Er...no.

Whether or not Morrison's stories are good, Hush was a bad story...

jgiannantoni

03-13-2008, 09:34 PM

Grant Morrison on Batman is overrated...Hush>Any story by Morrison for Batman.
They're both pretty overrated. I'll just leave it at that. I'll leave the story vs story overratedness comparison for another thread.

Happyhatter

03-13-2008, 09:55 PM

HUSH IS BACK BABY!!!

Thomas Elliot Is BACK BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When Gotham Knights was cancelled I was heartbroken(it was the only Bat title I was collecting)...

those last couple of issues weren't the best, but I loved Hush. and his character: Thomas Elliot is one of the best villians in the Batman rogues Gallery.... he's a pissed off Bruce Wayne, that's a surgeon!!! I love Hush, can't wait... him coming back might make me start buying Batman again...

skyking

03-13-2008, 10:09 PM

Thomas Elliot Is BACK BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When Gotham Knights was cancelled I was heartbroken(it was the only Bat title I was collecting)...

those last couple of issues weren't the best, but I loved Hush. and his character: Thomas Elliot is one of the best villians in the Batman rogues Gallery.... he's a pissed off Bruce Wayne, that's a surgeon!!! I love Hush, can't wait... him coming back might make me start buying Batman again...

Do we know for sure that Hush really was Thomas Elliot? It was hinted in the Jeph Loeb storyline that Elliot and Hush were the same person but it was never really stated as an outright fact. I thought for some reason TPTB of DC wanted to keep Hush's identity openended.

AzraelBatman

03-13-2008, 10:39 PM

Co-signed. The villains ALREADY win all the time. See World War III, the Emoboy Prime one-shot. This upcoming stuff is clearly no different at all.

Call me when DiDio finally remembers that the HEROES are supposed to win... :rolleyes:

ummmm the bad guys (A.Luthor and S.Prime) lost by issue 6 in IC with a issue to spare still, the big bad Secret Society got taken out in 4 panels after a year of build up.....and A.Luthor and Psycho pirate 2 characters with quite a bit of further potential were killed for cheap thrills, WW3 Black Adam was beaten and while his mini was interesting his character is a shell of its former self, Sinestro Corps after issue one where the bad guys looked like they were going to be bad ass accomplished nothing despite having Anti-monitor, Cyborg Superman, Prime and Sinestro plus the entire Sinestro Corps.

I would argue the exact opposite, this is what happens everytime a couple bad guys pose at the end of issue one and look all sinister then they get ganged up on by a massive amount of heroes who proceed to kick the Villain(s) ass and everything is hunky dory again, I haven't read any recent event comic that made me for even one moment doubt the outcome.......so I for one would like to read an event where the Villains are competent and dont get there asses handed to them halfway through the series, seriously when I read IC issue 6 where A.Luthors plan was ruined prematurely I immediately thought WTF there is an issue to go and he has already lost there was no anticipation or anything for issue 7.

And BTW im no fan of Morrison or Didio

Zenstrive

03-13-2008, 10:45 PM

HUSH? What in the world?

I am more excited to see Jimmy Olsen grows into a true omnipowered god and lead the universe with his innocent logics and spank the guardians once or twice each year because they suck at being themselves :)

And oh, I want Chris Kent and Damien Wayne bicker each other day in and out in Teen Titans :)

Go go Kid Super and Martial Robin!

AeroRep

03-13-2008, 10:49 PM

None of this sounds interesting. Heroes acting heroically is what I want to read. Not about their deaths, failings, dismemberments and disgraces. Its time somebody replace Dan Didio and get this sinking ship back on track.
It almost sounds like there is no cohesive plan here. Throw in everyone and everything plus the kitchen sink and hope that it works. People complain that DC currently is too convoluted to begin with, a theory that I do not subscribe to, and this certainly will not help. I did not read Seven Soldiers, nor do I have any desire to, so all of the references to this have me lost already. I had very little interest in this story to begin with since Morrison is writing it, and this interview definately didn't sway my opinions.

PyroTwilight

03-13-2008, 10:51 PM

So there'll be two different covers for DC Universe 0? The Legion one and the groups one shown here? Hush returning could be interesting but I've never much cared for him. Jimmy versus Darkseid eh? With the recent revival and focus on the Batfamily these days I'm wondering if Azrael will return I mean they even mentioned him as a key character concerning Banes history in the Countdown backup.

caats19

03-13-2008, 11:23 PM

Herald is like a broken record

Ken B.

03-13-2008, 11:31 PM

Here's the deal, people: Loeb and Lee's Hush arc made no sense whatsoever. It wasn't a mystery, it pulled the ending out of thin air, and was nothing more than a usual Loeb book: big name artist drawing all the allies/villains for a particular character.

Seriously, Hush and Identity Crsis are two of the best examples of an arc/series having no damn ending prepared and the writer just shoving something in at the last minute. Well, those and One More Day, of course.

Anyways, Adam Kubert disappears and all that is shown for it is 4 covers for the last issues of Countdown. Maybe those are why the ending to his Action Comics arc got delayed....again

Jeff-2

03-13-2008, 11:32 PM

Unfortunately I found a large part of Seven Soilders quite baffleing. I enjoyed it but there was a lot that didn't make sense. I felt as if there were some grand themes being explored but I'ld be damned if I could tell you what they were! I think I might need to re-read it espeically if it plays into Final Crisis. After FC please, DC, lay off the crisis' for a while.

jimmyolsen

03-13-2008, 11:41 PM

Dan's a Producer now? What, is DC making a movie? :p

Gordon McAlpin

03-14-2008, 12:02 AM

those of us who love Morrison will pretty much love anything he does and it will be hit or miss for a lot of other folks. Still a lot of his plots and ideas from his 7 Soldiers crossover were pretty high concept. I'm not sure how they'll play in Peoria.

I'm from Peoria, so I can answer that. :) I'm really excited about Final Crisis. I think the worst case scenario is we have a gorgeous book that doesn't make a lick of sense, and I can live with that when the artist is J. G. Jones -- but Morrison can write mainstream stuff brilliantly when he wants to, so it'll most likely be better than that.

holtom2000

03-14-2008, 12:29 AM

hey, J'Onn sports his old look on the cover on DC 0
maybe there is hope for DC after all

SMARTASS8

03-14-2008, 12:42 AM

I'm shocked that there are so many Hush fans. I thought everyone hated him. I liked Loeb's original Hush story until I re-read it. Like most of Loeb's work, imo, it doesn't hold up in enjoyment(except for the artists he's usually paired with) or coherency. Either Jim Lee didn't read Loeb's art directions closely enough or Loeb's story didn't make sense. There are several instances where the character is drawn to be Hush but is written to be Harvey Dent(and vice versa). Loeb seems to get all excited about his projects initially, but then loses interest by the end. The readers are then left with plot holes and/or loose ends. To this day, I'm still not sure if everything in The Long Halloween makes sense or if I truly know whot the killers were.

Also, why does Hush wear bandages on his face? Is there a medical reason, or is it just his costume? Hopefully someone can do something with the character to actually make me care about him(like Ostrander and Deadshot).

miamiu

03-14-2008, 12:53 AM

So final crisis is being kind of involved with seven soldiers series that not everyone read. Great especially considering the ending to that was a mess. I dont have much hopes for Grant being able to finagle things together. This doesnt sound too reader friendly at all.

newfoundma

03-14-2008, 12:54 AM

Awesome! I hope that they act like that Gotham Knights crap never happened.
Yes the Gotham Knights stuff was hack crap, but was the "Hush" stroyline that great? Hush has a great look, but really what is the appeal of this guy?
Excited for FInal Crisis, and I'm surprised that more people are crying out that this seems to have very little relation to the 52 issues of Countdown they just read. Happy that I dropped that puppy early on.

Filter03

03-14-2008, 02:01 AM

....the DC Universe is getting darker because the villains are winning hm?

Huh? Makes you think some people in the DC Universe might call for tougher no nonsense kinda heroes. Heroes that are less God like and maybe more Gog like.

Flashdisk

03-14-2008, 02:26 AM

Jimmy Olsen versus Darkseid. This is getting me interested. Jimmy has been portrayed a lot of times as a background character(from the way I see it, I'm not a superman comic reader), glad to see that this might actually give him the chance to develop.

I've just got to simply root for the underdog.

Edogawa1983

03-14-2008, 02:41 AM

raven1979

03-14-2008, 03:04 AM

I just hope they ignore the whole gk Hush storyle and just work with the coolnes potential the character had in his original arc.

At leat they are returmimg him to the Jim Lee designed costume.

Kent Horton

03-14-2008, 03:42 AM

Doc Nero

03-14-2008, 03:46 AM

Call me when DiDio finally remembers that the HEROES are supposed to win... :rolleyes:

Tell that to Marvel about Captain America & the anti-registration heroes.

spidey 85

03-14-2008, 03:46 AM

so jimmy grew apair and wants to take on darkseid

Evan Waters

03-14-2008, 04:12 AM

Like King Arthur, or Beowulf, or Hamlet, or Conan, etc.?

Not to nitpick, but while I don't have full knowledge of Conan's adventures-

-King Arthur wins, he just dies (or is wounded and taken to Avalon) as a result. Mordred is killed as well.

-Ditto Beowulf, who does in fact slay the dragon despite dying from his wounds as a result.

-Hamlet does achieve his revenge, and that he dies doesn't really detract from that since it never seems like he expected to live through it. It was a self-destructive path from the start. And Fortinbras, presented as a good guy, is the presumed king afterwards. It's a sad ending, but not an "evil wins" one.

MrToady12

03-14-2008, 04:40 AM

Darkseid is so badass, he can wear short shorts and still be a prime villain...

http://comicsmedia.ign.com/comics/image/article/662/662683/darkseid-20051029015059652.jpg
Foolish Mortals!! The Great Darkseid wears not short-shorts, but a mighty figure hugging tunic like all great comic book villains!!!

http://www.marvel.com/universe3zx/images/5/52/DrDoom_Head.jpg
Oh yeah - nothing says "comfort" like the freedom of a tunic!

Nas-Vell

03-14-2008, 05:37 AM

Jeph Loeb's Hush story was extremely overrated. The story in Gotham Knights was all over the place. That being said, if Paul Dini has a plan, well, who am I to judge?;) I'm kinda excited.

But more excited about Final Crisis. Grant Morrison. JG Jones. Jack Kirby. Those are the magic words.

Redcape

03-14-2008, 05:41 AM

Not to complain but the idea of Jimmy Olsen of all people putting the hurt on Darkseid makes my head sore.

For those Jimmy Olsen fans I bet this is your payday:D

Semicyon

03-14-2008, 06:46 AM

Not to nitpick, but while I don't have full knowledge of Conan's adventures-

-King Arthur wins, he just dies (or is wounded and taken to Avalon) as a result. Mordred is killed as well.

-Ditto Beowulf, who does in fact slay the dragon despite dying from his wounds as a result.

-Hamlet does achieve his revenge, and that he dies doesn't really detract from that since it never seems like he expected to live through it. It was a self-destructive path from the start. And Fortinbras, presented as a good guy, is the presumed king afterwards. It's a sad ending, but not an "evil wins" one.

Sorta-not-really nitpick back: Yeah, but King Arthur's wife cheated on him with his trusted knight and Camelot still fell.

Been about 20 years since I read Beowulf or Hamlet so I can't remember the details...I just took Kent Horton's response as pointing out to Herald comment "villains ALREADY win... call me when Didio finally remembers that the HEROES are supposed to win." was sorta simplistic/short-sighted in view of the stories about heroes that have endured over the centuries. As you point out, Arthur, Beowulf, and Hamlet succeeded in some of their goals but not before the death of other "good" people and innocents. Same thing with these DC stories. Yes, lots of carnage in World War III and the "Emoboy Prime one-shot" but the heroes did "win", with the best and brightest (i.e. most lucrative properties... poor Pantha) probably emerged relatively unscathed in comparison to King Arthur or Hamlet.

mohenjo

03-14-2008, 08:35 AM

Ugh. This book sounds horrible.

Grant Morrison is brilliant, but his stories are either great or horrible, with hardly any in between those extremes. The description of Final Crisis reminds me of Morrison's Seven Soldiers, which was a miss. Count me out.

Salieri

03-14-2008, 09:54 AM

Not to complain but the idea of Jimmy Olsen of all people putting the hurt on Darkseid makes my head sore.

For those Jimmy Olsen fans I bet this is your payday:D
...Or we could take his Countdown tagline literally and expect him to sacrifice himself in battle with the 'sied.

Michael Mayket

03-14-2008, 10:31 AM

All I know is that when Kyle gets back from Countdown he better ground the Guardians and send them to their rooms. He is sort of like their dad, right? He did make them.

When he "made" them the plan was that they'd wouldn't be as big of dicks this time, but they might, in fact, be bigger dicks then they were before... although to be fair Ganthet used to be all alone as the only reasonable Guardian, but now he has his special lady friend so I guess there has been a 100% improvement in non-dickish Guardians.

I hope during the War of Light the new little blue female Oans meet the old amazonian female Zamorians. Are the Zamorian's aware that there are new female Oans?

Obviously I had no actual points to make and I apologize if youy read this entire post.

durkadurka

03-14-2008, 10:52 AM

Obviously I had no actual points to make and I apologize if youy read this entire post.
Dammit! Well, at least you apologized for it.
Looking forward to how the Alpha Lanterns play a role, as both Geoff and Grant before this have said they will be involved.
I don't understand why everybody thinks Hush is so great. I loved the original Hush story, but it was the Riddler behind it! Hush was just a pawn in that game. And i can't really remember reading anything after that with Hush that impressed me.

Kevenn

03-14-2008, 11:01 AM

I think every time I read about Final Crisis, I become less excited. And after this, it's "nice" to get even more confirmation (this time from DC itself!) that Countdown was a complete waste fo my money. :(

Spy_Smasher

03-14-2008, 12:28 PM

Grant Morrison is brilliant, but his stories are either great or horrible, with hardly any in between those extremes. The description of Final Crisis reminds me of Morrison's Seven Soldiers, which was a miss. Count me out.I totally agree with this except for deciding NOW that I wont like it -- I'll give it a shot, and hope I get the great Grant Morrison and not the sucky one.

I'm trying to figure out how I feel about the revamp-Kirby nature of the whole enterprise, which I did not fully realize was happening until this interview. Jimmy Olsen. The New Gods. Final crisis stories with Anthro and Kamandi.

Over all I'm feeling pretty sad about it, I think. These revamps will have little to do, thematically or otherwise, with the original creation (as we saw in Seven Soldiers). That's just the nature of the beast. Unfortunately, DC's never really "gotten" these characters at all since they were first created. With Countdown and Final Crisis DC is basically putting the last nail in the coffin of Jack Kirby's contribution to their library under the guise of integrating it into the DCU. I guess what I'm saying is that I would have rather had Kirby as the bastard child of the DCU than written off altogether.

SMARTASS8

03-14-2008, 01:21 PM

None of what Didio said made me eager to see what's coming up. I used to get excited like a little kid whenever I read interviews with the talent or a comic con recap. I just must be hard to please these days. I've basically stopped reading Marvel due to, imo, chronic mischaracterizations labeled as "character growth" and the gloomy feeling that universe currently has. Since I grew up reading mostly Marvel but still dabbled in DC, taking refuge in the DCU wasn't that big a change. Unfortunately DC's starting to seem less like paradise these days. I still find Geoff Johns and Gail Simone gold, but all the death, forced "legacy" on most heroes, and poor stategies in planning events is worrying me. DC still hasn't tipped over into the point of no return, but after Countdown, awful decisions in matching writers with titles, and continuing to make some titles overly complex to the new reader. I like that DC doesn't go out of their way to disrespect their past stories or history like Marvel often does, but do they need multiple Legions running around when a lot of fans aren't well versed in the team at all? They need recap pages or indexes badly.

dcbill

03-14-2008, 04:32 PM

This interview makes it sound as if to fully appreciate Final Crisis, you need to have read everything DC publishes, including Seven Soldiers and the Mister Miracle miniseries.

AnalSurprise

03-14-2008, 05:20 PM

ChastMastr

03-14-2008, 07:29 PM

I hope during the War of Light the new little blue female Oans meet the old amazonian female Zamorians. Are the Zamorian's aware that there are new female Oans?

Thus opening up whole new genres of slash fiction, I'll wager... :p

Doc Nero

03-15-2008, 07:17 AM

Thus opening up whole new genres of slash fiction, I'll wager... :p

Some very disturbing images there.

SpaceButler

03-15-2008, 11:21 AM

As a mostly Marvel fan who's picked up DC stuff here and there (Sinestro Corps War, 52, WWIII, JLA) I have to admit, most of that interview rang like chinese to me.

No one else seems confused by any of it, so I'm assuming it's got a lot to do with my being less familiar with DC than I am Marvel. But could it be possible that DC is targeting this Final Crisis event a bit too specifically at its core audience?

It was a given that I'd give it a try, but after this interview... I'm not sure the event is targeted at my demographic. The number of Seven Soldiers references seems to indicate they -- whatever "they" may be -- are a big part of this. I don't even know what a Seven Soldier is.

/AS

I really don't think Final Crisis itself will be confusing if they are trying to get it as self contained as they seem to be. Part of the reason a lot of fans were justified in criticizing IC was that it was all over the place as far as what you needed to read to understand it. But from everything we have read recently it seems more like FC will require the prior knowledge of "DC heroes = good" and "Darkseid = very very bad".

ChastMastr

03-15-2008, 02:46 PM

Some very disturbing images there.

LOL! Well, it would not be my own cup of tea (I prefer more testosterone) but I am sure there would be a market for it... :p

Astro

03-15-2008, 04:20 PM

As a mostly Marvel fan who's picked up DC stuff here and there (Sinestro Corps War, 52, WWIII, JLA) I have to admit, most of that interview rang like chinese to me.

No one else seems confused by any of it, so I'm assuming it's got a lot to do with my being less familiar with DC than I am Marvel. But could it be possible that DC is targeting this Final Crisis event a bit too specifically at its core audience?

It was a given that I'd give it a try, but after this interview... I'm not sure the event is targeted at my demographic. The number of Seven Soldiers references seems to indicate they -- whatever "they" may be -- are a big part of this. I don't even know what a Seven Soldier is.

/AS

It is the themes, rather than specific events, that are being carried over from Seven Soldiers to Final Crisis.

While Morrison has likely been weaving this tale through DC subtly for a bit (52, Seven Soldiers, Batman) he has made it very, VERY clear that you don't need to know anything about the DCU at all to enjoy the story. Everything will be explained, and while you may not get the full experience (this character acting this way makes sense because of what happened here) it will be a self contained story, a veritable "Lord of the Rings" for the DCU.

Evan Waters

03-15-2008, 04:25 PM

As you point out, Arthur, Beowulf, and Hamlet succeeded in some of their goals but not before the death of other "good" people and innocents. Same thing with these DC stories. Yes, lots of carnage in World War III and the "Emoboy Prime one-shot" but the heroes did "win", with the best and brightest (i.e. most lucrative properties... poor Pantha) probably emerged relatively unscathed in comparison to King Arthur or Hamlet.

True, but the problem is, you string a bunch of pyrrhic victories together and it doesn't look much like victory (after all, the guy who the term was named for said at the time "another such victory and we are undone.") Obviously you have to make the threat of danger real and the stakes high for this sort of thing, but you also have to remember to make the payoff worth it.

ChastMastr

03-15-2008, 04:39 PM

I am kind of wondering how the way the New Gods are in Seven Soldiers fits with this. Although since reality was somewhat revised after Infinite Crisis (Wonder Woman, Legion, 52 Earths, etc.), then perhaps it was kind of a no-longer-in-THIS-continuity foreshadowing of what the state of affairs will be after FC. (Does that make sense?)

grendel824

03-16-2008, 12:17 AM

The description of Final Crisis reminds me of Morrison's Seven Soldiers, which was a miss. Count me out.

If you think that, I suspect you must have missed something. I felt the same way when I was almost through with the series, until he tied everything together brilliantly. Seven Soldiers was one of the books that reminded me to trust Morrison, even when it seems like he's lost the thread, because odds are it's me that missed something, not him.

silverbolt

03-16-2008, 12:24 AM

Call me when DiDio finally remembers that the HEROES are supposed to win... :rolleyes:

RING RING

Hello?

SEE: SINESTRO CORPS.

*click*

silverbolt

03-16-2008, 12:29 AM

no, actually, it's not interesting at all....

it would be like Rick Jones fighting Red Hulk...;)

As someone reading Kirby's 4th World Omnibus's for the first time, it makes total sense.
Darkseid did make his first appearance in "JIMMY OLSEN" anyway...

freakybatman

03-17-2008, 08:57 PM

is it just me or does Hush's guns look like universes ????

mabye he is the Batman R.I.P villian.
even though DD said detective, he always lies

rhiggatwat

03-19-2008, 02:20 AM

countdown certainly could have been alot better, but at this point i dont care. (although i do think that i am done with weekly comics. countdown really broke my piggy bank and so far kinda hasnt been worth it.)

none of that matters to me much at this point.

I CAN NOT WAIT FOR FINAL CRISIS!

i am a huge grant morrison fan, loved his jla (except for the very last arc, wwIII i think it was) run, dc one million, 52, and especially all-star superman. grant was born to write in the dc universe. everything about all-star superman has been wonderful, and grant wrote some of my all time favorite jla stories such as 'rock of ages' and 'crisis times five', truly creative and epic jla stories, as they should be. and he gave us great new characters such as prometheus and solaris.

we know that no matter what, grant will give us a fresh and unique crisis epic. i fully expect it to wash the bad taste of countdown out of my mouth. (unless countdown gets better for the last ten or so issues)

i hope grant stays at dc for a long time. id love to see him on green lantern after geoff johns (my other favorite writer, who could then take over jla. unless of course johns wants to stay on gl indeffinetly, that would be great as well.)

*end @$$ kissing*