TEN YEARS LATER: THE ULTRAVERSE [Archive]

MattBrady

05-16-2003, 08:35 AM

<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/Malibu/primena1.jpg" width="200" height="307" border="0" hspace="2" align="right">special to Newsarama by Ryan McLelland

The fairly recent announcement of a Prime feature film led me to dust off my collection of Ultraverse comics. I began my rereading with Prime #1, which jumped straight into action with an overtly muscled superhero threatening a terrified man. Prime wasn't fighting off some insane supervillain; he was menacing a high school gym teacher who had been molesting his students. As Prime went on to defeat more everyday criminals (never encountering an actual villain) I was pleasantly reminded why Prime would take time out of a busy superhero day to fight perverted gym teachers. The twist was Prime wasn't a muscle-bound hero all the time. He also doubles as a thirteen-year-old who grows into the hero thanks to the latest in military protoplasmic technology.

It was concepts like these that brought Malibu Comics' Ultraverse to the front lines with its launch of a new genre of comic books in June 1993. The company itself had been in existence since 1986, when Scott Rosenberg founded it with its inaugural title The ExMutants. Rosenberg negotiated a distribution deal with the newly formed Image Comics. Image was a success, and infused Malibu with loads of capital to try new things.

For the full story, click <a href="http://www.newsarama.com/Ultraverse.htm" target="_blank"> here</a>.

theodoros

05-16-2003, 08:57 AM

I used to like some titles.

You can buy now some good Ultraverse titles in an affortable price. A lot better than the old Image titles.

Be good.

I work for your enemies

05-16-2003, 09:09 AM

Considering Marvel still hasn't released a Men In Black comic after 2 big budget films, I doubt they'll release a Prime comic.

The note in the article about a percentage going to the creators also helps kill a comic book deal.

xdemon

05-16-2003, 09:17 AM

"Marvel read the Ultraverse. Look what happened."

Sounds like what happened with DC and The Authority.

Hunter

05-16-2003, 09:29 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by MattBrady:

Niven, whose Archers comic never saw print, also continues to write science fiction with his newest Ringworld novel released in 2003. <hr /></blockquote>What's it called and when is it coming? Couldn't find anything about it on amazon.

Mike

Mark Dominy

05-16-2003, 09:30 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by I work for your enemies:
Considering Marvel still hasn't released a Men In Black comic after 2 big budget films, I doubt they'll release a Prime comic.

<hr /></blockquote>That's not entirely accurate. Marvel released MIB: FAR CRY, an original one-shot that continued the original adventures; MIB: THE MOVIE, the movie adaptation; and a sequel story that brought Agent Kay back. All of these were written by series creator Lowell Cunningham and were releases around the time of the first movie.

BriRi

05-16-2003, 09:44 AM

I actually really dug thae Firearm series. Some pretty cool stories

Chad Anderson

05-16-2003, 09:45 AM

So will the creators of Prime also see a cut of its profits if the movie gets made? Or does their profit-sharing deal only cover comics?

Fanboy Smasher

05-16-2003, 09:50 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by theodoros:
I used to like some titles.

You can buy now some good Ultraverse titles in an affortable price. A lot better than the old Image titles.

Be good.<hr /></blockquote>There are some good Image backissues out there right next to the ultraverse stuff. There are Warren Ellis/George Pérez issues. I always liked Strangers, and Nighman had some Gene Ha art there for a while. There was an Exiles title that was solely created to kill off the team and start the BREAK-THRU crossover.

My favorite title was FREEX. It was kids who had powers and really didn't want them. They were all screwed up and just trying to survive. the super-bads of the ultraverse wanted them to be X-Men like, but these kids just wanted to goto prom, play football, or just hang out.

Ultraverse well worth the dollar box on the floor you'd find them in.

John Osen

05-16-2003, 09:58 AM

"and reveals plans for an aborted revival.."

How can there be plans for an aborted revival? That means planning for something not to happen. :confused:

Aaron

05-16-2003, 10:14 AM

Ah, the Ultraverse...

What a fantastic concept. In a lot of ways, Future Comics reminds me more of the Ultraverse than it's oft-compared predecessor, Valiant Comics.

The Ultraverse was a superhero fan's wet dream. Bright, shiny, optimistic heroes fighting modern-day threats. Mantra was a delight, Prime grew on me and Ultraforce was excellent (under Jones and Perez, anyway.)

It's amazing how quickly this line went from really, really good to bottom-of-the-barrel bad. As the article says, as soon as Thor showed up on the Godwheel, it was all over. The Strangers (a good-looking book, if written a bit heavy-handed by Englehart) didn't even finish their storyline out before it was cancelled. The B-level books like Sludge, Warstrike, Prototype, etc all dried up and went away.

The most disappointing failure was James Hudnall's part of the universe. His Hardcase was rapidly becoming a must-read book and The Solution (with its stunning John Statema art) was right up there with the best stuff on the shelf at the time.

If Mark Alessi ever decides to expand into a superhero sub-genre, I'd love to see him buy these properties back from Marvel and give them a fair shot.

Aaron

chubbyp

05-16-2003, 10:30 AM

The first Men In Black film was based upon a Marvel Comic according to the credits.

The second Men In Black film was based upon a Malibu Comic according to the credits.

Anyone know why they changed this credit?

FigNewton

05-16-2003, 10:42 AM

The new Ringworld book is to be title "Ringworld's Children." Best info I could find on release date was that it's due out around the end of this year.

Simon DelMonte

05-16-2003, 10:58 AM

Malibu sould have never sold out.

For that matter, neither should have Wildstorm, even if things are working better for them.

I think that Alessi must have paid attention to what worked and what didn't when putting together his game plan for CrossGen.

Hunter

05-16-2003, 01:09 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by FigNewton:
The new Ringworld book is to be title "Ringworld's Children." Best info I could find on release date was that it's due out around the end of this year.<hr /></blockquote>Cool, thanks.

Mike

Hunter

05-16-2003, 01:11 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by FigNewton:
The new Ringworld book is to be title "Ringworld's Children." Best info I could find on release date was that it's due out around the end of this year.<hr /></blockquote>Cool, thanks.

Mike

MY ENGLISH SUCKS

05-16-2003, 01:29 PM

The Ultraverse was even published here in Spain. I remember fondly RUNE, FIREARM and ULTRAFORCE. And the crossover Ultraforce/Avengers with a quadruple cover by George Pérez where he drew a lot of characters even from the Bravura line. Speaking of which, an article like this about Bravura would be welcome as well. Maybe for its 10th anniversary...

BTW, you're lucky, there're no quarter or dollar bins (with US material, at least) around here. So if Marvel could give the TPB treatment to some of the Ultraverse jewels (especially the BWS Rune issues), it would be welcome.

Psivage

05-16-2003, 02:15 PM

It was a shame to see Marvel destory it. I even sent away for the special issues. Wish it came back and just ignore what Marvel did.

Taylor Porter

05-16-2003, 02:32 PM

While, it does look like Marvel bought Malibu just to shut them down, I kind of feel like they would have put themselves out of business sooner or later. I think their problems started long before the Marvel deal.

For one, I think they spread themselves too thin too fast. Every time I looked, there was another Ultraverse book, and some of them were definite stinkers. For another, the talent associated with the Ultraverse, while established and talented, wasn't exactly "hot." And in the days of Image, having a hot artist was kind of crucial. Image books were selling in the millions based on the names of artists alone, and it was kind of hard to compete with that.

Well, anyway, I do have some fond memories of those days, and some of these books really were good. Good to know they're not forgotten!

Lex

05-16-2003, 05:40 PM

The Ultraverse is what got me started on comics. Reading those comics after school are some of my favorite memories. Looking back, I realise that they weren't perfect comics, but I really miss them.

Oh, and I have hated Marvel for almost 10 years just because of what they did to the Ultraverse.

the yas

05-16-2003, 06:35 PM

I LOVE MARVEL TO DEATH BUT WHEN I LOOK BACK AT THERE HISTORY THEY HAVE DONE SOME DIABOLICAL THINGS TO THERE CHARACTERS ON PURPOSE IT WOULD SEEM,ULTAVERSE WAS ONE OF THOSE CASUALTIES AND IT WAS HORRIBLE HOW MARVEL KILLED IT AS THEY DID TO THERE OWN TITLES THEY GROWN WEARY OF BACK THEN LIKE GHOST RIDER,THE SILVER SURFER AND DR STRANGE BUT MARVEL HAS CHANGED NOW,THE ULTRAVERSE CHARACTERS HAVE GREAT POTENTIAL MR QUESADA IF YOUR READING SIR PLEASE DO A ULTRAVESE HEROES REBORN PROJECT LIKE YOU DID WITH THE MARVEL KNIGHTS IT WOULD BE SO COOL.

I-Ching

05-16-2003, 06:46 PM

The Ultraverse is such an odd/sad chapter of comic book history.

It showed promise in the beginning but it seemed like all of the concepts were close to being good but missed the mark slightly. Touted as "the writer's universe" it was supposed to be the antithesis to the then white hot Image. It had a very fresh innocent feel to it but IMHO the lackluster art more often than not could'nt bring the writer's idea to fruition.

The Marvel buy-out was just cannibalization and just so bizarre.

I remember a mini called The Phoenix Ressurection that resulted in a new heroine call "Foxfire" with some great Kevin West art. Not too sure what happened to her. That whole merge thing was never clear since it didn't seem to impact Marvel continuity.

I'd love to see Marvel start Prime over as a brand new hero in the real Marvel Universe. A new, interesting teen hero for Marvel. What a concept!

Cray_ws

05-16-2003, 07:33 PM

I was one the few who couldn't afford to pick up any Ultraverse titles, although I did try Strangers and Freex. Which I thought were pretty good.

Its nice to remember the optimism Malibu Comics had, it certainly effected me. My non-reader friends were telling me about all the billboards and bus stop poster ads promoting their books. They were intrigued by Ultraverse mainly because thier popularity and of course the Nightman show.

I think the cause of their deminse will always be a debate and Marvel's name will never escape it. Anyone who lived thru Malibu's rise and fall will have learned a great deal what makes a successful publishing company.

Thanks for the memories, and here's to the sad but fond 10th anniversary of Ultraverse. May there never be another imprint that suffered like them.

jawaplumber

05-16-2003, 08:19 PM

I was a fan of the Ultraverse from the start. At a time when both Marvel and DC were both lacking much of the magic that had made them so special for decades before (although DC was slowly on the mend), the Ultraverse came along, took many classic comic book archetypes, shook them up just enough to add some spice, and had such creative successes as PRIME, FREEX, HARDCASE, THE STRANGERS, ULTRAFORCE, NIGHTMAN, etc.. Whether it was a grand conspiracy of Marvel's to buy Malibu and then completely kill the Ultraverse, I really couldn't say, but I will say that they certainly royally screwed it up. It was one of the many things that pissed me off about Marvel during the 90's. Especially since Ultraverse was doing a much better job with some Marvel's characters than Marvel was. For example, FREEX, IMHO, was the X-Men done right, at least in comparison to the crap the X-Men had turned into during that time. Ah, well, at least we still have the memories :)

Count me in as supporting a relaunch of PRIME by the current Marvel regime. Actually, I think a great place for it would be in the Ultimate continuity.

Wordsmith

05-16-2003, 08:20 PM

How well I remember the Ultraverse! It and the early years of Valiant were some of the best comics in the early 90s.

Mantra, Firearm, Hardcase...books with such potential that were cut short by the bastardization of the line at the hands of Marvel, an act epitomized by that horrid second version of Mantra. I have to confess that I left it all behind when that happened. What the supposed House of Ideas did to the Ultraverse actually made me stop reading all Marvel titles for several years. :mad:

But enough bile...Ultraverse was a great idea by solid creators, and I strongly encourage anyone who can find the issues to snap them up!

md62

05-16-2003, 08:50 PM

I had forgotten about the Ultraverse. It was a shame the way it ended. I enjoyed Prime & Ultraforce. I wouldn't mind seeing some of the characters revived.

beta-ray

05-16-2003, 09:05 PM

Hmmn... People wanting Prime back...

Ultimate Prime? Could be interesting. Though someone mentioned the Malibu line as being Optimistic... How about Marvel releasing "Optimus Prime!"?

What do you mean Dreamwave took that from Marvel?!

:D

Kintoun

05-16-2003, 09:13 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by the yas:
I LOVE MARVEL TO DEATH BUT WHEN I LOOK BACK AT THERE HISTORY THEY HAVE DONE SOME DIABOLICAL THINGS TO THERE CHARACTERS ON PURPOSE IT WOULD SEEM,ULTAVERSE WAS ONE OF THOSE CASUALTIES AND IT WAS HORRIBLE HOW MARVEL KILLED IT AS THEY DID TO THERE OWN TITLES THEY GROWN WEARY OF BACK THEN LIKE GHOST RIDER,THE SILVER SURFER AND DR STRANGE BUT MARVEL HAS CHANGED NOW,THE ULTRAVERSE CHARACTERS HAVE GREAT POTENTIAL MR QUESADA IF YOUR READING SIR PLEASE DO A ULTRAVESE HEROES REBORN PROJECT LIKE YOU DID WITH THE MARVEL KNIGHTS IT WOULD BE SO COOL.<hr /></blockquote>Joe Quesada was quoted saying "The Ultraverse is consistently responsible for some of the best colored and drawn books that I've seen in a long time. They're incredible!" in a Malibu Comics Profile dated June 6th, 1994. You can read a transcript of the full article at
<a href="http://groups.yahoo.com/group/uantlist/" target="_blank">http://groups.yahoo.com/group/uantlist/</a>
It's in the archives as message 269. Joe even penciled the gatefold cover for Ultraverse: Origins so it's odd that he's ignoring these great characters. I'd definitely support any project featuring the return of the Ultras.

Kintoun

md62

05-16-2003, 09:25 PM

Ultimate Prime?? I like it!! I think that Prime would work well in the Ultimate universe.

Andrew Burmeister

05-16-2003, 09:48 PM

I wonder if Ultraverse characters could be used in Marvel's upcoming Epic imprint. They did say you could use any marvel owned characters.

EMeadow

05-17-2003, 01:38 AM

Ahhhhhhhhhhhh the Ultraverse.

The only time Marvel purposely went out of its way to kill the competition. (Ok wait, the Defiant/Plasmer lawsuit crap was the second time so I need to rephrase that one)

Let the creators control their actual creations? Hell no, buy the company and take it from them! Most of them worked for us and hate us now, we'll treat em like we treated Kirby way back when. (And notice how many of these creators have NOTHING to do with the industry anymore after this.)

And Malibu started Image! We can't go after them (besides they all shot themselves in the foot anyway by being late) but we can get the people who started them on the road to success and gave us trouble.

And then, reap whatever profits we still can, and lock the characters away never to be used again even though they would no doubt do well today with all the right people on em.

Screw the Ultraverse, we got Tsunami!!!!

sgonhue

05-17-2003, 01:49 AM

I'm all for a nice reboot/revamp of the Ultraverse. Unless it's by the 'wonderful' people who went out of their way to kill it in the first place.

Can't wait to see how Marvel screws up the Ultraverse now and yes, that is highly sarcastic. I think I shall pass on this one. Thank you. :)

ctsmith83

05-17-2003, 10:40 AM

Ahhh yes, the Ultraverse. I remember clipping out those coupons from the first issues and sending them in to get Ultraverse #0. I remember reading Ultraverse #0 and... Wait a minute... I never received my copy of Ultraverse #0, but they certainly got my money for the first issues and the money order for the #0 issue. Needless to say, I quit reading their titles because they swiped my money. :mad: :mad:

Hunter Zero

05-17-2003, 02:05 PM

I liked a few of the Ultraverse titles, but my favorite was the first Exiles series. When they killed the whole team in issue 4 of the mini it just blew me away. I did enjoy the 2nd Exiles series with Juggernaut, Siena Blaze, and Reaper for the first 6 issues but it fell apart after that.

05-17-2003, 04:10 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by John Osen:
"and reveals plans for an aborted revival.."

How can there be plans for an aborted revival? That means planning for something not to happen. :confused: <hr /></blockquote>...This is Marvel we're talking about. Ergo, in this case, the grammar and logic is correct.

mr mainstream

05-17-2003, 05:59 PM

There isn't a month that goes by when I don't wish I was picking up the latest issue of Prime, Hardcase, Ultraforce, Prototype, Sludge or a number of the other titles.

If ever I need to sway a friend into reading comics...I lend them the TB of Prime......and I've never heard anything but wild praise for it !!!!

How Marvel can sit on such great characters yet still churn out crap like the Tsunami titles I don't know ?

If ever the Ultraverse did make a comeback, it must be with the original creators.
Jones, Strazewski and Breyfogle are still Gods in my eyes for what they did with Prime.
Why aren't these guys still together putting out comic books ?
It's a bloody crime !

Over the years I've been trying to put together a full collection of Ultraverse titles..I probably still need thirty or so until completion, but I WILL do it !

And whatever happened to Lord Pumpkin ?
He was a brilliant villian.

BRING BACK THE ULTRAVERSE !

Taltos

05-17-2003, 06:58 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Hunter Zero:
I liked a few of the Ultraverse titles, but my favorite was the first Exiles series. When they killed the whole team in issue 4 of the mini it just blew me away.<hr /></blockquote>I'd have to agree with you there. I was amazed that they could do such a thing, but man, it kicked off one hell of a ride!

I also loved Englehart's Night Man. Prototype had a great concept (though a bit Iron Man-y).

I think I'm gonna look around for some of these guys. I was a huge fan.

RichCsigs

05-17-2003, 10:08 PM

I have never read any of the Ultraverse titles, but you guys have convinced me. I'm going to go hunt them down now.

At least the Malibu ones.

WldCard

05-18-2003, 10:35 AM

To this day, Firearm remains my favorite comic series. It was the most fun I ever had reading comics. Apparently I'm not alone in my love for the series either. There was once talk of pitching a new Firearm series by former series artist Cully Hamner and writer Warren Ellis. The idea was scrapped though out of respect for James Robinson's feling on the matter. In Robinson's opinion, he had told the story he wanted with Alec Swan, and he wanted to leave it there. One source even made the comment that Robinson felt no matter how good the series would be, eventually Marvel would screw it up.

Later,
David

mr mainstream

05-18-2003, 10:38 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by RichCsigs:
I have never read any of the Ultraverse titles, but you guys have convinced me. I'm going to go hunt them down now.

At least the Malibu ones.<hr /></blockquote>Start with Prime.
Issue for issue it's the best Ultraverse title....even in it's later stages.

Freex was a great team-book and Strangers always had a surprise tucked up it's sleeve.

Don't be put off by the Iron man nature of Prototype. The early cross-over issues with Prime set the series up for a great run.

Mantra was a great play on the bimbo bad girls trend of the time. Big chested, beautiful warrior woman....who had the mind and soul of a man !!!!!
It sucked big time by the time Marvel got a hold of it.

Rune....this could be harder to track down as it started as an insert across selected Ultraverse titles before getting his own series..
Much thought went into this villian...and it shows.

Hardcase had a great backstory which was fully explained in The Squad mini-series. I had a lot of difficulty tracking down The Squad comics.

There were quite a few one-off specials including a Flood Relief special, Ultraverse year 1 and 2 comics and even a monthly newspaper type comic called Ultra Monthly which I think were giveaway items ?

The only series I know almost nothing about was Solution. I only have two issues and it's impossible to tell what the series was like just from those ?

The only UV series' that I didn't rate were Solitaire, Warstrike and Wrath...too Image-like for me.

Malibu were very fond of issue 0 comics....so don't be fooled into thinking that a comic like Elven started with issue number 1...it didn't !

If you need any help, give me a shout.

little kon-el

05-18-2003, 06:40 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by WldCard:
To this day, Firearm remains my favorite comic series. It was the most fun I ever had reading comics. Apparently I'm not alone in my love for the series either. There was once talk of pitching a new Firearm series by former series artist Cully Hamner and writer Warren Ellis. The idea was scrapped though out of respect for James Robinson's feling on the matter. In Robinson's opinion, he had told the story he wanted with Alec Swan, and he wanted to leave it there. One source even made the comment that Robinson felt no matter how good the series would be, eventually Marvel would screw it up.

Later,
David<hr /></blockquote>didn't they have another firearm series? i remember accidentally picking a couple of those weird issues up after trying to hunt down james robinson's run of firearm. the first story was written by someone else about another british agent called "firearm." the second story seemed to be a backup story about an early adventure of alex swan. i could've sworn the backup material was based around robinson's scripts for the aborted "firearm annual" that was supposed to have taken place.

personally, i think the last few issues of the title really brought it home for me to pick up the rest of the series. i had already started picking up starman when the last few issues of firearm came out. the whole "serial killer of superhumans named rafferty" was such a neat villain to go up against alex swan. and the ending in the church really made me think of "the killer" if john woo ever wrote comics.

firearm was such a wonderful take on a "punisher-style" character. the editor really pushed james to write a story that was uniquely personal and uniquely british.

my favorate part of the whole book was the fact that firearm's main weapon wasn't even used for about 90% of the stories in firearm. it was all about alex swan.

little kon-el

md62

05-18-2003, 07:13 PM

I would add Ultraforce to that list. UF was the team book of the Ultraverse. The first issues of vol I had art by George Perez. The first few issues of Vol II were written by Warren Ellis.

Meteoro

05-18-2003, 08:05 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Aaron:
If Mark Alessi ever decides to expand into a superhero sub-genre, I'd love to see him buy these properties back from Marvel and give them a fair shot. <hr /></blockquote>Ahhhhhhhhh...! That would so make my day. I miss so much Ultraforce, the Freex, so many good books, so much wasted by Marvel.

I think that's when my antagonism for Marvel started. It felt as if they killed a good friend of mine...

:( M <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

littlewolvie

05-19-2003, 03:30 AM

Aahh, the Ultraverse. I've some good memories of that period. I enjoyed some of the initial books and managed to stay interested even after Marvel took over. Personally, it saddened me to see the books get cancelled. Most of them offered a good and fun read (at a relatively low price).

As for a revival of the UltraVerse, I certainly wouldn't mind. But I think there's little chance that will happen anytime soon as it doesn't really fit into Joe & co.'s vision of what Marvel should be like. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="frown.gif" />

Grendel Prime

05-19-2003, 01:11 PM

Enter the Devil's Advocate:

I bought some Ultraverse books. I read some Ultraverse books. I enjoyed some Ultraverse books (Freex and Solitare). But I can't relate to all this nostalgia... The Ultraverse was nothing but a 90's take on 70's Marvel.

In all the books I read or didn't-read-but-scanned-through, original ideas were hard to find. Freex was X-Men. Solitare was Punisher. Ultraforce was Avengers. Prime was Spider-Man (with Superman's physique). Sludge was the Incredible Hulk. Even Night Man was too much like Moon Knight to ignore.

The only vaguely original concepts from the Ultra titles were Mantra and Rune. But Mantra I could not read 'cause it just struck me as being too much of a fan boy's fetish fantasy. I did find Rune intriguing as it was the first book I remember reading whose title and main character was a villain.

Now, an imprint I get nostalgic for was Milestone. Why not retrospective for them, considering those books were some of the best I read in that style-over-substance decade?!?

Aaron

05-19-2003, 01:24 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Grendel Prime:

In all the books I read or didn't-read-but-scanned-through, original ideas were hard to find. Freex was X-Men. Solitare was Punisher. Ultraforce was Avengers. Prime was Spider-Man (with Superman's physique). Sludge was the Incredible Hulk. Even Night Man was too much like Moon Knight to ignore. <hr /></blockquote>

Hmm, well, I'm not sure why concepts should somehow discredit nostalgia, but okay. :D

I don't think your comparisons are totally accurate either. Freex was more Doom Patrol than X-Men, Prime was more Captain Marvel than Spider-Man or Superman and Sludge was WAY more Man-Thing or SwampThing than Hulk. (???) Even Night Man was more Batman than Moon Knight.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />The only vaguely original concepts from the Ultra titles were Mantra and Rune. But Mantra I could not read 'cause it just struck me as being too much of a fan boy's fetish fantasy. <hr /></blockquote>

Not surprised, since that's exactly what it was supposed to LOOK like... but if you read it, you'd see it was a biting satire on that very concept.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Now, an imprint I get nostalgic for was Milestone. Why not retrospective for them, considering those books were some of the best I read in that style-over-substance decade?!?<hr /></blockquote>Why one at the expense of another? Milestone was awesome, but why does that mean we can't also have a retrospective on Ultraverse?

Aaron

J. Allen Harris

05-19-2003, 06:40 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Kintoun:
Joe Quesada was quoted saying "The Ultraverse is consistently responsible for some of the best colored and drawn books that I've seen in a long time. They're incredible!" in a Malibu Comics Profile dated June 6th, 1994 . . . Joe even penciled the gatefold cover for Ultraverse: Origins so it's odd that he's ignoring these great characters.[/QB]<hr /></blockquote>Aw, it's not so odd.

Afterall, Joe Q's a guy that gave up running his own comic company so he could be a grunt over at the House of Ill-Repute . . . um, Ideas. Does ANYONE besides me remember ASH?

implodingheadtheory3000

05-19-2003, 08:35 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Wordsmith:

Mantra, Firearm, Hardcase...books with such potential that were cut short by the bastardization of the line at the hands of Marvel<hr /></blockquote>Actually, Firearm pulled up stakes before Marvel came along. James Robinson voluntarily cut it off after 18 fine issues. True, Marvel tried to reanimate the corpse with CODENAME: FIREARM, but it did afford the dignity of leaving the character of Alec Swan out of it. The character's only connection with the series was some back-up stories which had no relation to the convoluted story that was CODENAME: FIREARM.

Probably the worst thing about Marvel's revamping of the Ultraverse was that many mainstays of the Ultraverse were erased from continuity, and nobody bothered to explain what happened to them. Jimmy Ruiz, who was the main character of PROTOTYPE, just disappeared, being replaced by the man who originally wore the Prototype armor (a.k.a. Ranger.) Contrary, Ultraforce's equivalent of the White Queen (and also known as Wetware Mary in FREEX) also vanished, as did the UV's heavy-hitter, Hardcase.

To make matters worse, Marvel couldn't make up it's mind on what happened to these characters. Catalog solicitations originally listed guest appearances by Contrary and Hardcase in ULTRAFORCE #8 (w: Warren Ellis, p: Darick Robertson), but they were conspicuously absent from the finished product. Moreover, half of the issue's art was done by another artist (was it Jeff Johnson?), which suggests that the editor wrote them out of the story at the last moment. and needed an artist who could render the rewrites in a weekend.

Ultimately, Marvel explained it away almost a year later when Hardcase returned in ULTRAFORCE v.2 #11, after the whole line had been condemned, and all of its readers had given up waiting for it & given up reading it.

In hindsight, it makes one wonder why these characters were written out of the whole freakin' universe while they were concurrently appearing on the TV series. If today's fans fret over the relatively picayune dissimilarities between the comic & film versions of the Hulk & X-Men, imagine the genuine and well-deserved confusion when comparing the print & TV interpretations of Ultraforce. If Marvel was so concerned about making the Ultraforce cartoon an advertisement for the comic, they would not have shunted half of the comic book's team into limbo.

What is the only logical explanation for Marvel's actions? In the words of MST3K's Joel Robinson, "They just didn't care."

Slangword

05-20-2003, 01:25 AM

Firearm was my favorite, but the Englehart books (Strangers and Nightman) were up there also. The Nightman/Gambit mini-series (not by Englehart) was horrible -- I get the feeling that the writer had never read a Nightman story previously.

One problem I had was that the rapid expansion and desire to have mysterious secrets in each book made the line tough to follow. It was as if Marvel had introduced the Asgardians, Galactus, the Watcher, the Eternals, the Atlanteans, the Savage Land and the Inhumans simultaneously; I totally lost track of what book's mysterious secret was connected to what other book's mysterious secret. The Freex series was the first one I lost track of, what with hints that Contrary was "wetware Mary," but the wetware came from the godwheel, and the Freex of the past being in the land under the earth. I felt the direction strayed too far from what I had originally gotten interested in.

Rune was nice looking, but the story didn't grab me. It grabbed me even less when Rune was written out and replaced with the Gemini creature. Bringing Adam Warlock in was the last straw.

Break-Thru, and Ultraforce were decent. Hardcase was darn good, but definitely suffered from too many pencillers, and what seemed like a truncated storyline. Prototype and the Solution had their moments; I liked the business connection that threaded through both books. Warstrike and Wrath -- Two seemingly-generic "tough guy" books that did at least try for some emotional depth.

Exiles - Another case of too many concepts hitting at once, with the Theta virus. Interesting idea with the "created to be cancelled" approach, but the issues that were published were too scattershot to make me care that the characters died after four issues.

Sludge - I just didn't appreciate this. Except for Lord Pumpkin, who was a terrific idea. I really couldn't stand the cutesy dialogue patterns.

Ultraverse Premiere - Interesting idea, but the stories weren't connected wnough with the main books.

Prime - Great idea, but it went too many directions too quickly. In retrospect, redesigning the signature character after 6 months should have tipped me off that there was some confusion as to what to do with the character. Having two writers probably did not help.

Solitaire - I can't remember much about it other than I didn't like it much.

The later Marvel books were mostly forgettable. I picked up Mantra until Barr left, and Nightman until Engelhart left.

--Scott Rowland

Jeremy Williams

05-20-2003, 08:24 AM

I`m surprised to learn that the Universe as a whole had been so carefuly tought-out since to me these books looked like your generic super-heroes from Marvel and DC. But what made the Ultraverse work in my opinion is that Marvel and DC books were so bad at that time that to see a company going back to the basics was refreshing. And boy were this book well written! I never cared for any of the concepts but when you would pick a book up you could not put it down.

You had great stuff in there: Looking at the at the terrifik artwork on Prime, I think it`s a crime that Norm Breyfogle is not working on a regular big-time comic right now at Marvel or DC; BWS`s work on Rune is my favorite stuff of his that he has ever worked on. I would be curious to know how involved he was in the whole crazy origin of of this book.

Anyway, cheers for the memories! :)

Rockin' Rich

05-20-2003, 09:57 AM

Tom Mason, Chris Ulm, Dave Olbrich.
Credit where credit's due. Those guys had LOTS to do with the Ultraverse.

Marvel never should have purchased Malibu, but that was back in the days when the company was out of control and on a buying spree during the Perelman era. Scott Rosenberg made out quite well, I'm sure.

Not to start another thread, but does anyone remember Malibu's Bravura line? It was their attempt to recreate Image with WRITERS. What a swell idea! Sort of like Dark Horse's Dinosaur imprint, though that was mainly writer/artists.

Those were the days...NOT!

Sherman Williams

05-20-2003, 01:15 PM

The Malibu Ultraverse had some interesting characters, yet didn't have the appeal that Image or Dark Horse had with their books. Sadly Marvel's greed in the mid-1990s was their end, as well as the over-saturation of the industry then almost ruined Marvel. I fear that history may repeat itself when DC recruited Jim Lee and Wildstorm into their fold. I also hope John Carbonaro doesn't suffer as well when THUNDER Agents was brought into relaunch by DC this summer. That's too great a concept to be thrown away.

The Blue Spider

05-22-2003, 12:36 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by chubbyp:
The first Men In Black film was based upon a Marvel Comic according to the credits.

The second Men In Black film was based upon a Malibu Comic according to the credits.

Anyone know why they changed this credit?<hr /></blockquote>I can't tell you why the property-owners decided to not lie in the second movie as they did in the first.

On the other hand... another good question is... who decided who would recieve that particular credit in either movie? Was it the property-owners (Marvel) or the the liscense-holders (Sony)?

Alan Coil

05-25-2003, 09:49 PM

Chad Anderson wonders if the creators of Prime will get a cut on the profits from the film.

Point 1---the movie is not yet made and may never be.

Point 2---there will be no profits if the movie is made. No matter how much people liked the comic there is no knowledge of the book by the general public. This is what helped Spider-Man and X-Men to become big box office. They are well known. Daredevil is less known. Most people would associate Prime as a movie about Alan Greenspan.

bulletproofkid

05-26-2003, 03:15 PM

"Faced with young editors who did not know their material, the creators of Prime quickly became worn out from mistreatment. "Here were editors who had never written a comic, or maybe just one, and they were trying to edit the works of professional writers," said Strazewski. "It just wasn't working out." Strazewski and Jones would both leave the book a few issues before its demise."

How arrogant.

I couldn’t have cared less about Len Strazewski’s revisionist account regarding his departure from PRIME, but when it involves personally attacking me and Dan Shaheen (and all the PROFESSIONAL writers we worked with on many, many other Malibu titles), I find myself compelled to bring to light that he certainly did not leave the book willingly. In retrospect, I should have fought harder to keep the creative teams intact to finish their stories since the books were clearly doomed by a lack of advertising, marketing, AND sales. But Len shouldn’t insult the editorial staff and underhandedly degrade the long list of fine talent we worked with in an attempt to save his pride. For better or worse, right or wrong, the fact is he was let go, and it wasn’t a pleasant experience for any of us.

Mark Paniccia

OMAR

05-27-2003, 01:48 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by bulletproofkid:
"Faced with young editors who did not know their material, the creators of Prime quickly became worn out from mistreatment. "Here were editors who had never written a comic, or maybe just one, and they were trying to edit the works of professional writers," said Strazewski. "It just wasn't working out." Strazewski and Jones would both leave the book a few issues before its demise."

How arrogant.

I couldn’t have cared less about Len Strazewski’s revisionist account regarding his departure from PRIME, but when it involves personally attacking me and Dan Shaheen (and all the PROFESSIONAL writers we worked with on many, many other Malibu titles), I find myself compelled to bring to light that he certainly did not leave the book willingly. In retrospect, I should have fought harder to keep the creative teams intact to finish their stories since the books were clearly doomed by a lack of advertising, marketing, AND sales. But Len shouldn’t insult the editorial staff and underhandedly degrade the long list of fine talent we worked with in an attempt to save his pride. For better or worse, right or wrong, the fact is he was let go, and it wasn’t a pleasant experience for any of us.

Mark Paniccia<hr /></blockquote>How completely classless to bring up the circumstances of his departure. I don't understand what your problem with his statement is. Was he wrong in stating that you had never written more than one comic book? The bit about you not knowing your material seems to be the opinion of the author, it's not a quote from Len, so it can't be that or you wouldn't be blaming him and attempting to embarass him by telling folks he was fired...

Can you clarify?

Eric Altice

Cully Hamner

05-31-2003, 07:20 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by WldCard:
To this day, Firearm remains my favorite comic series. It was the most fun I ever had reading comics. Apparently I'm not alone in my love for the series either. There was once talk of pitching a new Firearm series by former series artist Cully Hamner and writer Warren Ellis. The idea was scrapped though out of respect for James Robinson's feling on the matter. In Robinson's opinion, he had told the story he wanted with Alec Swan, and he wanted to leave it there. One source even made the comment that Robinson felt no matter how good the series would be, eventually Marvel would screw it up.
<hr /></blockquote>Actually, David, it was never Warren; it was Paul Jenkins. We thought it would be fun to pitch, but it never got beyond us talking about it, due to James' feelings, as you mentioned. His feeling was that if we did a good job and revived interest in Alec Swan, Marvel would do more with the character and eventually screw up him up. I didn't necessarily agree with that, but I have enough respect for James that I decided to just leave it lay.

Too bad, 'cause I had some ideas that I liked, visual and otherwise, and there were always things on the original series that I felt I could have done better. And I could have finally been able to redesign that friggin' gun! :D

Aaron

06-05-2003, 02:30 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by bulletproofkid:

How arrogant.

I couldn’t have cared less about Len Strazewski’s revisionist account regarding his departure from PRIME, but when it involves personally attacking me and Dan Shaheen (and all the PROFESSIONAL writers we worked with on many, many other Malibu titles), I find myself compelled to bring to light that he certainly did not leave the book willingly. In retrospect, I should have fought harder to keep the creative teams intact to finish their stories since the books were clearly doomed by a lack of advertising, marketing, AND sales. But Len shouldn’t insult the editorial staff and underhandedly degrade the long list of fine talent we worked with in an attempt to save his pride. For better or worse, right or wrong, the fact is he was let go, and it wasn’t a pleasant experience for any of us.

Mark Paniccia<hr /></blockquote>Hmm, arrogant or not, pleasant experience or not, the overwhelming opinion of the post-Marvel Ultraverse remains that it sucked... badly. Considering that the overwhelming opinion of the Ultraverse PRE-Marvel (of which Mr. Strazewski played a key role) was that it did NOT suck makes me think his perspective is probably a tad bit more believable.

For whatever role you and the other editors played in the destruction of such interesting and unique concepts... well, let's just say my heart doesn't break for you.

Aaron