WHO WANTS TO CREATE A SUPER-HEROINE?

[MattBrady]

<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/Marvel_MAX/AtomEve.jpg" align="right">Most contests in the comic book business are geared toward artists. Shadowline is bucking the tide and creating a contest geared toward writers!

According to Shadowline editor, Kristen Simon, “I’d been hoping to see a super-hero book with a strong female lead to act as a counter-point to our popular Bomb Queen series, but none were forthcoming. So I decided to come up with a contest to create a super-heroine for the 21st Century.”

The character will be 100% creator-owned as all Image and Shadowline books are (Trademark and copyright to be shared by writer and artist). The winning entry will be featured in their own self-titled three issue mini-series to be drawn by fan-favorite artist, Franchesco! (<b>She-Dragon, Green Lantern Corps Quarterly</b>) and back-end profits will be split between the creators.

Contest regulations are listed below. Neither Image nor Shadowline can or will be responsible for synchronicity (similar ideas appearing at the same time).

No feedback will be provided on submissions, just a confirmation of receipt.

Contest will be divided into three parts as outlined below, deviation will result in immediate disqualification:

<b>Round One:
Contestants e-mail a BRIEF one paragraph story synopsis by January 31, 2008 to: superheroinecontest@gmail.com. Stories/concept must be original with original characters. No pre-existing characters may be used unless owned by contestant.

Round Two:
Ten semi-finalists will be chosen from all entries received by the above date and notified by e-mail. They will then be required to turn in 5 (five) fully scripted pages by February 29, 2008.

Round Three:
The five finalists will be announced and their synopses published on March 10. Readers will be encouraged to vote on their favorite.* (Writers are strongly advised to direct traffic to the contest via message boards, myspace, etc…every vote counts!) Polls will close on April 4, 2008.</b>

The winner will be announced April 28 with initial concept art/character design by Franchesco. First issue will be solicited with a cover date of November, 2008.</b>

* This contest is run by Shadowline. Newsarama in no way influences the outcome.

[avengingtitan]

Holy Awesome Idea!!!!!!!


Thats genius.

This totally gives me something to do this weekend.

First post.

[brawl2099]

I am so there!

[Kris Simon]

Yes, multiple entries will be accepted.

I knew there was something I forgot to address. ;)

[ComicBooker]

I have questions. Like is there an age limit? Does my nationality matter? Is this contest opened to Canadians or just Americans and also what else should I include in my e-mail regarding my synopsis? Obviously my name and since this is being done through e-mail my mailing address would be useless but is there any other information I should add?

I am truly excited about this and do not want to be left out because of stupid little problems.

[R.McKegan]

Yes, multiple entries will be accepted.

I knew there was something I forgot to address. ;)

You mean it's okay to submit more than one proposal?

Very cool. I'll have to give this a shot.

[MKF]

Oh my god, huge kudos to Kristen Simon and Shadowline and Image for doing this - while it's true that most every writer has to start by just writing, regardless of who's reading, there's no denying that 'must have prior experience' is a recurring theme in a lot of areas. For a publisher to even look at a newbie's work - never mind doing anything with it, just being willing to extend the invitation - is a huge boost, and I shouldn't be surprised if several talented would-be writers start putting pen to paper regularly as a result of this opportunity being offered, even if they don't make the cut this time round.

Needless to say, I'll be making my bid for the elusive three-issue mini :D (And thanks for clarification on multiple submissions - I've got one idea in mind, but it'll be an odd thing if another couple don't pop up in the next month.)

[theNameless]

You's gonna get flooded. ;)

Neat idea though. I'm looking forward to reading the finalists.

[Kris Simon]

I have questions. Like is there an age limit? Does my nationality matter? Is this contest opened to Canadians or just Americans and also what else should I include in my e-mail regarding my synopsis? Obviously my name and since this is being done through e-mail my mailing address would be useless but is there any other information I should add?

I am truly excited about this and do not want to be left out because of stupid little problems.


Ok, note to ALL: Do not over-think this. Please. All the info you need is listed.

ComicBooker: There is no age limit, if there was, we would have said so. Nationality does not matter either. Otherwise we have said so. This is open to all. We work with artists and writers from all over the world...the beauty of the internet.

All you need is your name and e-mail address included in your submission. If we want or need more...we will ask for it.

Ok, I'm ready for more questions. :p

[Blackbeard]

Brilliant idea, Kris!

Have fun with the thousands of entries.

I kid. :D

[Fresco]

Ok, I'm ready for more questions. :p

If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it... does it make a sound? ;)

[Mundungus]

I'm totally up for this.

[Kris Simon]

Brilliant idea, Kris!

Have fun with the thousands of entries.

I kid. :D

Hey, you gotta figure...if I get thousands of entries, I should have no problem getting TEN good ones to choose from, right?

My fondest hope is to have a hard time choosing only ten. That would be glorious.

[The_Adventurer]

I have the perfect story for this (fits a 3 issue mini fairly well) but I'm not sure if having Franchesco drawing a 900 year old grizzled badass who dresses as a bag lady plays to his strengths... ;)

[alschroeder]

I think...you may have quite a few to choose from. ---Al, who just sent you an email about my pre-existing but creator-owned character.

[Kris Simon]

Did I mention that Jimmie Robinson has graciously allowed the use of BOMB QUEEN as the first villain the super-heroine can go up against?


Well, he has. So hopefully that will sweeten the pot for a lot of you. :)

[Mycroft]

Did I mention that Jimmie Robinson has graciously allowed the use of BOMB QUEEN as the first villain the super-heroine can go up against?


Well, he has. So hopefully that will sweeten the pot for a lot of you. :)

So it must take place in the "Imageverse" ?

[AbacusComics]

That's cool. Franchesco is awesome!

[ArchonComics]

Sounds like fun! I'm all over this. Thanks, Jimmy and Kristen, for thinking about us writer types. I'm a big fan of Franchesco's work. Very cool.

[J.D. Lombardi]

Couldn't I just pay Franchesco to draw my book?

:D

[Fresco]

Couldn't I just pay Franchesco to draw my book?

:D
I hear he is really expensive, J.D. LOMBARDI--
you be better off getting someone who doesn't draw Veggie Tales from time to time, and likes it more that he probably should... :D
(yeah, I love veggie tales, so sue me)

Thanks ABACUS COMICS... I appreciate the compliment.

Hey, The Adventurer: drawing comics... fun
getting paid for doing something I love... awesome
Drawing a 900 year old grizzly bag lady... priceless :)

[Blackbeard]

I may have to enter just for a chance to work with Fresco. :)

[Fresco]

I'm a big fan of Franchesco's work.
You're much too kind, ARCHON COMICS ... thank you.
(btw: the check is in the mail for the kind words, much appreciated)

Heh heh... You so crazy, BLACKBEARD
I look forward to the chance of working with you, man! :)

[Kris Simon]

So it must take place in the "Imageverse" ?

No, I didn't say that.

I was going to try to explain this, but I'm just going to quote Erik Larsen instead, it's easier:

"The Image Universe is somewhat flexible in that every book is essentially its own universe but it contains the same characters from the other books and when they crossover, events in different books coincide."

Since there are no previous issues for the book that will win this contest, it doesn't matter. And Bomb Queen resides in New Port City, so it won't affect her series either if she makes an appearance.

[cafeman]

OK, I have a question:

Should the paragraph be a true synopsis, meaning that it should reveal the end as well as all possible twists and reveals within, or should it be more of a teaser/trailer/preview/whet your appetite type thing?

Also, should it be a whole miniseries synopsis, or a first issue synopsis?

[CountD]

This sounds like a great opportunity.

I may send in my character.

[Arvandor]

Kris. When you say that you're looking for a heroine to act as a "counter-point" to Bomb Queen, does this mean you're looking for a truly heroic heroine? Or will you consider darker characters too?

[BillReed]

I'm in.<booyah>

[ERON]

The character will be 100% creator-owned as all Image and Shadowline books are (Trademark and copyright to be shared by writer and artist). The winning entry will be featured in their own self-titled three issue mini-series to be drawn by fan-favorite artist, Franchesco! (<b>She-Dragon, Green Lantern Corps Quarterly</b>) and back-end profits will be split between the creators.

Wait, does that mean Franchesco will own 50% of the character's TM and copyright, or am I reading that wrong?

[UBR]

I'm so there too !
Must. Brainstorm. NOW !

[ElijahSnowFan]

huh.

there's no reason not to enter this, really. i'm in -- time to put up or shut up, and see what i've got.

[NielsVanEekelen]

Kris (and Jim, I presume), I can't thank you enough for this--every time there's an announcement calling for "comic creators" to submit work, I optimistically check it out and discover it's only for artists. This opportunity is much appreciated.

I'll do my best to help make it hard for you to pick just ten superheroines. :)

Have fun with the thousands of entries.

I kid. :D
You think you kid. But you really don't. :p

Did I mention that Jimmie Robinson has graciously allowed the use of BOMB QUEEN as the first villain the super-heroine can go up against?

Well, he has. So hopefully that will sweeten the pot for a lot of you. :)
Actually, that would go quite well with one of the first two ideas that came to me. Hm...

[Kris Simon]

OK, I have a question:

Should the paragraph be a true synopsis, meaning that it should reveal the end as well as all possible twists and reveals within, or should it be more of a teaser/trailer/preview/whet your appetite type thing?

Also, should it be a whole miniseries synopsis, or a first issue synopsis?

We're the publisher, not the audience. Yes, we want to know the ending. When we say "story synopsis" that means the entire story (yes, all 3 issues) summed up in one BRIEF paragraph.

No hype. No questions asked of us. Cut and dry, in and out.

[Kris Simon]

Kris. When you say that you're looking for a heroine to act as a "counter-point" to Bomb Queen, does this mean you're looking for a truly heroic heroine? Or will you consider darker characters too?

We want a hero. A good guy. Well, a good female. So the less dark, the better your chances.

[Hammer Mills]

Sounds like fun, I too lament the lack of strong female characters out there, looks like it's time for me to stop complaining and do something about it.

Viva La Thud!

[Kris Simon]

Wait, does that mean Franchesco will own 50% of the character's TM and copyright, or am I reading that wrong?

Franchesco will be the one creating the look of the character (based on the collaboration between him and the writer) and everything else that will be drawn. So yes, he gets part ownership.

[Timberoo]

This is a pretty cool idea. I'm going to have to give this some serious thought.

[brawl2099]

First submission... err... submitted!

[Equinox]

Franchesco will be the one creating the look of the character (based on the collaboration between him and the writer) and everything else that will be drawn. So yes, he gets part ownership.
Question: are we allowed to collaborate with another writer (such as how Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning write Nova) or is it strictly one writer for a pitch? It didn't state that in the rules, and I have a friend that I'd love to work with.

[Hypestyle]

do your concepts have to be pre-copywritten?

[Kris Simon]

Question: are we allowed to collaborate with another writer (such as how Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning write Nova) or is it strictly one writer for a pitch? It didn't state that in the rules, and I have a friend that I'd love to work with.

However you want to work is fine. When all is said and done, it's the public (you guys) who will be voting for the winner. We're just providing the outlet.

I'm sure there are tons of writers out there who have been waiting and waiting for this opportunity. Trying to find an artist to work for back-end pay without guarantee of publication is something I know is prevalent out there. Writers are most often stuck with the burden of paying an artist out-of-pocket just to get a proposal together. It's money gone if the proposal is rejected, and most can't afford to do it over and over again.

So we've given you a pre-approved artist willing to work off the back-end (and yes, he gets part ownership rights), and we've already given a green-light for publication. Through the publicity of this contest, and the fact that it's YOU that will be voting for your favorite, we're hoping that the book will be successful. Ideally, it's a win-win situation.

This is your chance, all you writers! Give it your best shot. If that means collaborating with another writer, then collaborate!

[Equinox]

However you want to work is fine. When all is said and done, it's the public (you guys) who will be voting for the winner. We're just providing the outlet.

I'm sure there are tons of writers out there who have been waiting and waiting for this opportunity. Trying to find an artist to work for back-end pay without guarantee of publication is something I know is prevalent out there. Writers are most often stuck with the burden of paying an artist out-of-pocket just to get a proposal together. It's money gone if the proposal is rejected, and most can't afford to do it over and over again.

So we've given you a pre-approved artist willing to work off the back-end (and yes, he gets part ownership rights), and we've already given a green-light for publication. Through the publicity of this contest, and the fact that it's YOU that will be voting for your favorite, we're hoping that the book will be successful. Ideally, it's a win-win situation.

This is your chance, all you writers! Give it your best shot. If that means collaborating with another writer, then collaborate!
This is quite seriously the best idea I've seen come across the internet in a very long time. Thanks for the opportunity!!

*runs to pop open WordPerfect*

[themurph2099]

I'm sure there are tons of writers out there who have been waiting and waiting for this opportunity. Trying to find an artist to work for back-end pay without guarantee of publication is something I know is prevalent out there. Writers are most often stuck with the burden of paying an artist out-of-pocket just to get a proposal together. It's money gone if the proposal is rejected, and most can't afford to do it over and over again.

Exactly. It's a killer having to front the money for the entire project not knowing if it's going to get past 5 completed pages and a cover.

This is a FANTASTIC opportunity...and I can't think of a better artist for a book like this than Franchesco.

[Kris Simon]

This is a FANTASTIC opportunity...and I can't think of a better artist for a book like this than Franchesco.

I couldn't either. That's why I was quite relieved when he said YES! :D

[FIG]

I'm not sure about this Franchesco guy..........hahaha, just kidding. Beautiful teaser drawing man. Cannot wait to see more art from you.

[NielsVanEekelen]

Contestants e-mail a BRIEF one paragraph story synopsis
I can already tell the "brief" part is going to give me trouble. Good thing it's open for a lot of interpretation.;)

[Linkara]

Kris, thank you so much for this opporunity! I'm sure I'll probably fail, but I've got a few superheroines sitting around that I wasn't doing anything with anyway, so I love this opportunity to polish off some concepts as well as get a chance at being professionally published!

Thanks again! I can't wait to see what others submit! :D

[The_Adventurer]

Should the "Brief Story Synopsis" be in the body of the e-mail or in an .DOC attachment? Or does it not matter at all?

And can we put two submissions in a single E-Mail? Or should they be separate?

[Varrus]

If a tree falls in the forest, and no one is around to hear it... does it make a sound? ;)
And in a similar vein...

If a man speaks in a forest, and no woman is around to hear him... is he still wrong? :p

[Kris Simon]

Should the "Brief Story Synopsis" be in the body of the e-mail or in an .DOC attachment? Or does it not matter at all?

And can we put two submissions in a single E-Mail? Or should they be separate?

You can put two in one, you can do it in the body or by attachment.

I will be looking at all of them, regardless!

[Hero12]

I know it's been said tht theres no age limit but I just gott get this right.

If I understand, anyone of any age can apply. Is that right?

[Linkara]

Quick question - what should the subject line of the e-mail be to ensure it doesn't get marked as spam?

[Kris Simon]

I know it's been said tht theres no age limit but I just gott get this right.

If I understand, anyone of any age can apply. Is that right?

That's what "no age limit" means.

Come on, guys. Are you going to make me start repeating myself here? Let's try to refrain from re-phrasing other people's questions to see if you get a different answer. :rolleyes:

[Kris Simon]

Quick question - what should the subject line of the e-mail be to ensure it doesn't get marked as spam?

Judging from the 40+ submissions I have received in the last hour, I would say "Superheroine Contest Entry/Submission" seems to be working pretty well. ;)

[Linkara]

Judging from the 40+ submissions I have received in the last hour, I would say "Superheroine Contest Entry/Submission" seems to be working pretty well. ;)

LOL! I guess I shouldn't be surprised you're already getting submissions. ^_~ Out of curiosity, are you going through them as they come in or are you going to wait for the end of the deadline to sort through all of these?

[theNameless]

LOL! I guess I shouldn't be surprised you're already getting submissions. ^_~ Out of curiosity, are you going through them as they come in or are you going to wait for the end of the deadline to sort through all of these?

Finally a good question! :D

(I don't get the age limit obsession around here)

Im not participating but it sure is fun to see everyone go apeshit over details.

[The_Adventurer]

(I don't get the age limit obsession around here)

Honestly I wonder about the legalities of this. If people under the age of 16 (18?) can't sign legally binding contracts how can they hold copyrights and trademarks?

[theNameless]

Honestly I wonder about the legalities of this. If people under the age of 16 (18?) can't sign legally binding contracts how can they hold copyrights and trademarks?

Makes sense I guess. I sort of think people are overreading things quite a bit though. As in...wait until you qualify before worrying about these things!! It's been half a day and there are over 40 submissions. This thing runs for another 3 weeks and will be reduced to 5 finalists only. You'd think people would just be taking their shots instead of overanalyzing and assuming they've already won.

Just my .02.

[Fresco]

The winning entry will be featured in their own self-titled three issue mini-series to be drawn by fan-favorite artist, Franchesco! (<b>She-Dragon, Green Lantern Corps Quarterly</b>)...

I love image comics.

let me say that again... I LOVE IMAGE COMICS!

It's funny the credits state "She-Dragon" and "Green Lantern..." (what is it about me, and the color green?)

My first break in the big two was co-creating a Green Lantern of my very own for DC Comics. Wow... what a jump for joy that was!!! This week I got to see my Green Lantern die! Yes, they killed him. Did DC call me to say "hey Franchesco! --we're killing your character... and how is the weather" Nope, they didn't... they don't have to, because he is not my Green Lantern. On paper, DC owns "Adam" lock stock and barrel to do with as they please. Nothing against DC comics, I loved working for them then, and I loved working for them last month. They have so many icons that are so fun to draw, and I look forward to working with them again and again. I was so excited to draw anything for anybody back then, and I got to create my very own superhero too??? Brainfreeze!!!!!!!!!!! I didn't care about creator's rights, that was not even part of my thought process... or any of my peers for that matter. Image came along and changed all that.

Creators not only get to create at Image, they get to keep their rights lock, stock, and barrel, if that's the road they choose to travel on. The risks are higher, but the rewards are all the sweeter.


So here we are today... and whatta small world, on the front page posted right next to this thread, holds a thread with the splash page where they killed off my Adam. (beautifully drawn by Ivan Reis. Great issue, everyone should go out and buy it) Adam is not a big deal in the industry really, he's not one of the more prominent characters in the corps-- but to me, he was and is larger than life, and I love the character as if he was one of my kids... so he is a big deal --to me. And I miss him lots, now more than ever.

I love comics... and the industry is a better place because Image is part of the landscape!

Lets make super-heroine magic, people!!!

:)

[CountD]

I sent mine but I'm having email trouble.

Will we be getting confirmation of receipt within a few days or so?

[nwspencer]

Wow... thanks for doing this! What a great idea for a contest!

[Kris Simon]

LOL! I guess I shouldn't be surprised you're already getting submissions. ^_~ Out of curiosity, are you going through them as they come in or are you going to wait for the end of the deadline to sort through all of these?

Seeing as how I am still editing more than a dozen books that are currently on Shadowline's schedule for 2008, I'm setting aside a certain block of time daily to get through as many as I can. When the deadline looms, if there are still lots coming in, I will take the weekend to get through them all. Jim V. will help me if I need it.

I have no idea why that matters to anyone. :confused:

[Floodnado]

Hmm, I'm definitely in. I've got a few ideas and definitely could think up one or two more so the fact I can have multiple entries is nice.

This is a fantastic idea, by the way.

Edit: I know somebody wondered about the possibility of this taking place in the Imageverse because you said that we had the okay to use Bomb Queen as a villain. However, the opposite is fine, right? That being the character/book would be in it's own little world.

[Kris Simon]

I sent mine but I'm having email trouble.

Will we be getting confirmation of receipt within a few days or so?

If you don't hear back within 24 hours, I did not receive it.

[CountD]

If you don't hear back within 24 hours, I did not receive it.

Thank you.

[Zumbi]

So a Veggie Tales/Bomb Queen cross over would be out of the question? :)

[Fresco]

So a Veggie Tales/Bomb Queen cross over would be out of the question? :)
you are correct!


LOL
good one, ZUMBI :D

[Linkara]

So a Veggie Tales/Bomb Queen cross over would be out of the question? :)

Curses!

*Erases one idea he had.*

[Jack West]

Wait, does that mean Franchesco will own 50% of the character's TM and copyright, or am I reading that wrong?

Considering it's an Image book, that's more or less a given - this is standard Image policy, competition or not.
I prefer to delude myself I could do the art thing rather than the writing, but this sounds like a whole heap of fun and worth trying. Of course, it would be cruel to flood someone's email inbox with any half-assed idea that struck you - though allowable by the rules of the competition - so it's probably an idea to either go off and think of a full three issues' worth of storyline to accompany the pitch and condense that into a brief synopsis (tricky, but doable), or just bear in mind that most of the iconic characters of superhero comics have one-paragraph origin stories - a lot of them appear above the title page of any given Marvel comicbook if you need examples - and emulate those as best you can.

[hellooladiez]

sweet, especially since over the years ive created roughly over 1000 female characters, names, origins, costumes, powers, etc since i was 4 years old, and theres enough of them that could work. sick idea!

[roguefan]

Does Bomb Queen have to be included in the 3-issue pitch. Does she definately have to be included in this? Just asking before I expand my inital ideas.

[BlakSun]

Does Bomb Queen have to be included in the 3-issue pitch. Does she definately have to be included in this? Just asking before I expand my inital ideas.


do people actually read before posting? :confused:

[roguefan]

do people actually read before posting? :confused:

Yup... but as we've been told that Bomb Queen can be used in the mini, I'm wondering whether or not she HAS to be used. There's nowhere that says that..

[Dalarsco2]

So if I have a bunch of ideas, do I have to put all of them in one E-Mail, or will you guys be OK with getting a bunch of E-Mails from me before the deadline?

[Kris Simon]

Yup... but as we've been told that Bomb Queen can be used in the mini, I'm wondering whether or not she HAS to be used. There's nowhere that says that..

What you have to do has been clearly stated. Did it state anywhere that you had to use Bomb Queen? It was offered as a leg up, since she's a popular character with a solid fanbase.

Guys, use common sense, please. And I have already answered the "more than one e-mail" question. Read through the thread.

Please do not over-think this.

[SevenSoldier]

Yup... but as we've been told that Bomb Queen can be used in the mini, I'm wondering whether or not she HAS to be used. There's nowhere that says that..

Actually, she did specify within the thread that, while Bomb Queen is available, it isn't necessary that she be included.

Also of note: seriously, thanks for this opportunity. I'll be working on a few things to send your way.

[roguefan]

Thanks for clearing that up. I was just worried because I've enver read a book with said character in, so was wondering whether I'd have to find some back issues/trades and get some back story on the character.

[Linkara]

What you have to do has been clearly stated. Did it state anywhere that you had to use Bomb Queen? It was offered as a leg up, since she's a popular character with a solid fanbase.

Guys, use common sense, please. And I have already answered the "more than one e-mail" question. Read through the thread.

Please do not over-think this.

Sooo, wait, I'm confused, we can send in more than one e-mail? ;)

Oh, and I get it, we need to use Bomb-Queen in this! ^_~

[Morbius]

Wow, I know it's been said already but it's worth repeating: this is someone finally doing something that we've all been waiting for. Artists are catered to with contests so often it's depressing. No one ever seems to give us writers a chance unless we can get great artists to work with us potentially for free. I really hope this shows the industry that there are just as many talented writers out there who haven't been able to break in yet, and they follow this wonderful example. And how cool is it that this is being done by Image, where the creators are serially not screwed? Merry Christmas to all of us!

I've got some ideas, but I'm going to take a little time to develop them properly before submitting. No reason not to take advantage of the full time frame to make it as good as it can be. We all know we'll get a great idea the minute we hit "send" anyway.

Thanks again to Kris, and also to Franchesco for offering up his wonderful talents to help us out! I anxiously await the oppotunity to work with you :D

[kitty_tc]

You had me until the "artist gets half ownership" bit. Really, are you kidding me?

I wouldn't be writer if I did not have a clear visual design for my characters before they're ever put to script, which can be described in any level of detail necessary to provide a model from which the artist should work, and can even provide pre-commissioned sketches and art pieces for visual reference. In fact, I do not want an artist doing any visual design work at all, I want them to draw the characters I created the way I tell them they should look, period.

Do you realize how serious a thing giving up half of IP rights really is? It's scarcely better than a work for hire arrangement, which is the equivalent of giving away your characters. Who is this Francesco person to me? I'm sure he's nice and professional, but if I give him half-rights to my characters, it places he and I in a forced business relationship, forever. Anytime after this if and when I want to use my own characters, I have to go through him, or buy back half of what I created before I ever even met him? Unacceptable to me, and should be to anyone who's serious about doing something with their intellectual property on a long-term basis.

Essentially, you're asking people to sign onto a shared bank account with someone they've never even met. It's a nigh-insane thing to ask someone to do.

On the other hand if writers do need visual design services, and artistic creative input, the artist should be given credit and ownership for what he put in. No artist should be asked to design a character and not get what they designed. It should be an option, though, and not a requirement.

I hope anyone here seriously thinking of participating in this thinks long and hard about signing away half of their intellectual property rights, permanently. It may seem like no big deal now, but it's the kind of thing that causes nothing but legal nightmares down the road. Think about the Superboy fiasco. Does anyone here want to be involved in something like that over something you created?

No deal, Ms Simon. No offense.

[J.D. Lombardi]

You had me until the "artist gets half ownership" bit. Really, are you kidding me?

No deal, Ms Simon. No offense.

You do realize that you weren't being asked personally, right?

:rolleyes:

[kitty_tc]

You do realize that you weren't being asked personally, right?

:rolleyes:

This is posted on a forum, which is intended for people to post their feelings upon. That's how it works. Pay attention.

As to my comment, I posted because I feel it's a great idea except for the signing away ownership part which is a nightmare waiting to happen. I felt that a lot of those gushing enthusiastically about the idea may not have thought through the implications of what they're signing, so the issue needed to be addressed.

You'd think people would have learned their lesson about haphazardly signing away their creations, but here it is almost 2008 and people are still rushing like lemmings to sign the papers. Kinda sad, really.

[Smalls]

I've never gotten the whole "but it's my idea and I don't want it stolen/ruined etc" thing in contests like this and... in writing in general.

If you've only got the one good idea... or just a handful... you're probably not going to get very far anyway. And even if it's the best idea ever, what's the point of having the most awesome seed in the world if you don't have any dirt to grow it in because you won't share the fruit with the person who has the dirt.

I mean, of course, I have two or three ideas that are so personal to me that I'd never put them into a contest like this or into a blind pitch where they could be stolen but... you know, I'm just using others and coming up with others for this one.

The whole point of being a writer is about being able to generate a whole lot of ideas, some great, some okay, a few awful, some wasted, some stolen, some used, etc.

If you're so opposed to having sharing the copyright on your for the benefit of having a known quantity artist and a publishing guarantee of some kind... either don't enter or don't use the ideas you're not prepared to give up, that's all.

Maybe if the contest gets your foot in the door, you can use those personal ideas later on in your career or so on.

[Blackbeard]

You had me until the "artist gets half ownership" bit. Really, are you kidding me?

I wouldn't be writer if I did not have a clear visual design for my characters before they're ever put to script, which can be described in any level of detail necessary to provide a model from which the artist should work, and can even provide pre-commissioned sketches and art pieces for visual reference. In fact, I do not want an artist doing any visual design work at all, I want them to draw the characters I created the way I tell them they should look, period.

Do you realize how serious a thing giving up half of IP rights really is? It's scarcely better than a work for hire arrangement, which is the equivalent of giving away your characters. Who is this Francesco person to me? I'm sure he's nice and professional, but if I give him half-rights to my characters, it places he and I in a forced business relationship, forever. Anytime after this if and when I want to use my own characters, I have to go through him, or buy back half of what I created before I ever even met him? Unacceptable to me, and should be to anyone who's serious about doing something with their intellectual property on a long-term basis.

Essentially, you're asking people to sign onto a shared bank account with someone they've never even met. It's a nigh-insane thing to ask someone to do.

On the other hand if writers do need visual design services, and artistic creative input, the artist should be given credit and ownership for what he put in. No artist should be asked to design a character and not get what they designed. It should be an option, though, and not a requirement.

I hope anyone here seriously thinking of participating in this thinks long and hard about signing away half of their intellectual property rights, permanently. It may seem like no big deal now, but it's the kind of thing that causes nothing but legal nightmares down the road. Think about the Superboy fiasco. Does anyone here want to be involved in something like that over something you created?

No deal, Ms Simon. No offense.

Wow... how long have you been in the biz? I'm sorry, but this is one of the most dickish, ignorant responses I've read on Newsarama--and I've read a lot of 'em. I don't know how much published work you have out there, but if you do a tiny bit of research, you'll discover that co-ownership is not a new practice in the creator-owned world. Hell, BKV and Pia Guerra are 50/50 owners on Y: The Last Man. And this is only one of many that I could name.

If you are not interested, why take the time to write such a verbose entry? Are you doing the "noble thing" and warning these "poor ignorant aspiring creators" of how they can be dicked over with a guaranteed published gig with a wonderful professional artist at a major publisher? Wow... that's something we should all try to warn aspiring creators about. The horror. :rolleyes:

[Justice41]

Fresco Brudderman how's it going? What's this you're up to now.

[Egg]

Wow... how long have you been in the biz? I'm sorry, but this is one of the most dickish, ignorant responses I've read on Newsarama--and I've read a lot of 'em. I don't know how much published work you have out there, but if you do a tiny bit of research, you'll discover that co-ownership is not a new practice in the creator-owned world. Hell, BKV and Pia Guerra are 50/50 owners on Y: The Last Man. And this is only one of many that I could name.

If you are not interested, why take the time to write such a verbose entry? Are you doing the "noble thing" and warning these "poor ignorant aspiring creators" of how they can be dicked over with a guaranteed published gig with a wonderful professional artist at a major publisher? Wow... that's something we should all try to warn aspiring creators about. The horror. :rolleyes:

Preach it, brother. Preach it!

[Floodnado]

I get what kitty's saying and it IS a valid point. You might not want to win with something that you created and is very dear to you, only to want to use it later and get caught up in whatever (legalese or just drama in general) because half the rights are owned by somebody who wasn't really involved in the character's or story's conception. This isn't like doing work-for-hire for Marvel or DC or something like BKV and Pia where both parties were definitely involved in the creation of the characters, story and everything else right from the beginning.

Kitty's not bringing it up to be an ass or anything. It's just a concern that's being brought up and if somebody doesn't want to enter the contest because of that, that's their perogative. It's a good opportunity but it's not exactly a perfect one.

[The_Adventurer]

I'm slightly concerned about the %50 ownership thing myself. The character I initially wanted to pitch is a character (and world) I've literally spent years developing and I can't in good faith risk losing full creator control on her this early in the game (especially with how a large number of my other concepts tie into the world of the character). So instead I'll be pitching a concept that while I've also put a bit of work into for a while, I won't be quite as anguished about if something happens and I can never publish it again. Don't worry, it's just as good. Infact it might be better because it probably has broader appeal built in.

[NielsVanEekelen]

You had me until the "artist gets half ownership" bit. Really, are you kidding me?

No deal, Ms Simon. No offense.
Hey, I'm a control freak too, but you have to acknowledge the other person's contributions. Even if you bring in completed designs, you're still asking Franchesco to invest months of his life into a series that might not sell and might not make any money on publication.

Try finding any artist who is willing to work on your book without up-front cash and/or a share in the copyright. Hell, if I could find a published artist (by Image and DC no less!) that was willing to work for back-end pay on some of my other projects, I'd be extatic!

You also think that sharing copyright is a legal quagmire, but that's only if you mess up the contract and don't make the details clear--and I'd have to guess that the nice people over at Image have some experience with that type of contract.

[BADunn]

Half the ownership? Well, nothing risked, nothing earned. My question is who gets ownership of the entries that don't win. If ALL rights revert back to me then I'm fine with that. I also wouldn't sacrifice one of my babies to this contest unless I was sure it would win. If this gets my foot in the door then I can sacrifice half the potential profit. I can always make-up another comic book. If it's not as successful, well, that's life!

[Smalls]

I can't speak for anyone else but... my first submission was the idea I had while shaving a coupla hours after reading this article. Anything I enter from here on would be similar, I'm thinking.

I would just say... consider the possibility that your favourite-child Big Idea that you've written a 300-page source book might not actually be the best idea where you're entering by writing a one-paragraph-pitch for a three-issue miniseries.

I'm not even a professional writer but... I've banged my head against that wall enough to know that even trying to take your personal Lord Of The Rings epic and distill it into a pitch for a contest... it won't feel good creatively and it won't be a clean enticing pitch.

Just kinda my opinion. I reckon in the next month, I'll have two or three new ideas for a female-lead superhero story and... I'll write them out in ten or fifteen minutes and e-mail 'em to the contest.

I reckon it'll be both the healthiest way to go about it and... also... probably the most effective way as well.

[Blackbeard]

Half the ownership? Well, nothing risked, nothing earned. My question is who gets ownership of the entries that don't win. If ALL rights revert back to me then I'm fine with that. I also wouldn't sacrifice one of my babies to this contest unless I was sure it would win. If this gets my foot in the door then I can sacrifice half the potential profit. I can always make-up another comic book. If it's not as successful, well, that's life!

If you reread the guidelines, Shadowline only wants a pitch. No art, no script--just a pitch. The only way you'd ever move to contract is if your pitch was approved, or, in this case, if you win. If not, all you've lost is a couple hours writing and tweaking a pitch.

[kitty_tc]

Wow... how long have you been in the biz? I'm sorry, but this is one of the most dickish, ignorant responses I've read on Newsarama--and I've read a lot of 'em. I don't know how much published work you have out there, but if you do a tiny bit of research, you'll discover that co-ownership is not a new practice in the creator-owned world. Hell, BKV and Pia Guerra are 50/50 owners on Y: The Last Man. And this is only one of many that I could name.

If you are not interested, why take the time to write such a verbose entry? Are you doing the "noble thing" and warning these "poor ignorant aspiring creators" of how they can be dicked over with a guaranteed published gig with a wonderful professional artist at a major publisher? Wow... that's something we should all try to warn aspiring creators about. The horror. :rolleyes:

I actually am interested, but not at the cost of giving away intellectual property rights to someone I've never so much as met, when the artist in question has not and will not be creating or designing any part of the characters to whom they will be given ownership. Really, what part of that sounds like a good idea to you?

I'm pretty sure the pairs you listed had some sort of collaborative arrangement going prior to signing co-ownership arrangements, or at least knew one another. The same cannot be said in this case.

If it's "dickish and arrogant" to question the wisdom if giving someone half-ownership in things they did not create without the benefit of so much as even knowing the prospective co-owner prior to making the arrangement, then "dickish and arrogant" I shall be. But at least I'll still own my own sh<aaa>it.

[BlakSun]

I actually am interested, but not at the cost of giving away intellectual property rights to someone I've never so much as met, when the artist in question has not and will not be creating or designing any part of the characters to whom they will be given ownership. Really, what part of that sounds like a good idea to you?

I'm pretty sure the pairs you listed had some sort of collaborative arrangement going prior to signing co-ownership arrangements, or at least knew one another. The same cannot be said in this case.

If it's "dickish and arrogant" to question the wisdom if giving someone half-ownership they did not create without the benefit of so much as even knowing the prospective co-owner prior to making the arrangement, then "dckish and arrogant" I shall be. But at least I'll still own my own sh<aaa>it.

so don't enter. simple as that.

[Smalls]

Yeah, if you want your ideas to be "yours" so much that you don't want a longshot chance at an opportunity to get them drawn by a pro and published by a major label for free... then, yeah, don't enter.

Why all the vitriol about that decision, though?

It's your decision to make and that's fine but... yipes, you're so angry about it.

[NielsVanEekelen]

I actually am interested, but not at the cost of giving away intellectual property rights to someone I've never so much as met, when the artist in question has not and will not be creating or designing any part of the characters to whom they will be given ownership. Really, what part of that sounds like a good idea to you?
Well, I can only speak for myself, but the part where Franchesco would draw three full issues of what I write, and Image and Shadowline will publish them sounds pretty good. Outside of this contest, you'd have to give up either a copyright share and/or money to get and artist to draw your stories, and then you'd only be at the beginning of the perilous submission phase.:cool:

[Blackbeard]

If it's "dickish and arrogant" to question the wisdom if giving someone half-ownership they did not create without the benefit of so much as even knowing the prospective co-owner prior to making the arrangement, then "dckish and arrogant" I shall be. But at least I'll still own my own sh<aaa>it.

Go back and read your post. If you didn't mean to come off as dickish and ignorant, I'd say you have a serious lack of interpersonal skills. As you can see by J.D. Lombardi's and Egg Embry's posts, I'm not the only one who came to this conclusion.

The answer is simple: if you don't want to enter the contest, don't. But for those who do, this is a wonderful opportunity to break into the biz.

[The_Adventurer]

Kitty was just being brutally honest, which personally I think some people need to hear. Especially with something like this were the legalities may not seem important now but may latter in the future.


I personally have a kind of a middle ground feeling about this, I like the idea of Creator Rights, but in practice the obsession with creator control is another factor generally hurting the comic industry right now. Work For Hire shouldn't be all feared just because you don't own what your write or draw, it's like that in any creative industry, it's not unique to comics. Creator Control is not some perfect holy grail of comicdom. There are pros and cons, and this seems like a pretty good middle ground in most ways.

No reason to think you couldn't buy out Francheso's 50% at a latter date anyway if you really want full control back.

[kitty_tc]

Understand it's not about money. I don't care if I don't make a dime on the book the artist draws and he keeps every single dollar. I don't care, I'll happily sacrifice the front AND the back money for a chance at publication, but I will NOT give up ownership of my characters and stories forever.

Publishing rights are limited. Ownership is forever.

[GLX]

I'm game. This is awesome.

p.s.kitty_tc:Franchesco! seems cool enough to share ownership with. I'm pleased that he's doing this.

[Blackbeard]

I'm game. This is awesome.

p.s.kitty_tc:Franchesco! seems cool enough to share ownership with. I'm pleased that he's doing this.

Chesco's cool as hell and a brilliant artist... if I do say so myself. :)

[ArchonComics]

Co-ownership with the artist is not uncommon. Especially if you can't afford to pay for a work-for-hire contract. For an opportunity to be published by Image, I would do it. It may not be for everyone, but to me, your IP is useless if it never goes anywhere beyond your hard drive. Image, and Franchesco for that matter, can make your IP actually worth something. It's a personal choice. I personally feel that in order to jump start your career, you may have to make a few sacrifices.

[kitty_tc]

Chesco's cool as hell and a brilliant artist... if I do say so myself. :)

Be that as it may, I don't know the man from Adam (no pun intended). I'm not entering into a permanent business relationship involving the only things I have that are truly mine in this world with someone I've never so much as had coffee with. Again, sorry if that seems psychotically unreasonable to you, but oh well.

What really burns is how Ms Simon is all stringing along the hope and the "no strings, honest, not like those other guys!" thing, and then hits you with the hidden condition there at the end "...well, no strings EXCEPT THE LOSS OF 50% OWNERSHIP RIGHTS IN YOUR OWN CHARACTERS".

That just stings. I feel like Charlie Brown being told to kick the damned football.

[BlakSun]

Be that as it may, I don't know the man from Adam (no pun intended). I'm not entering into a permanent business relationship involving the only things I have that are truly mine in this world with someone I've never so much as had coffee with. Again, sorry if that seems psychotically unreasonable to you, but oh well.

What really burns is how Ms Simon is all stringing along the hope and the "no strings, honest, not like those other guys!" thing, and then hits you with the hidden condition there at the end "...well, no strings EXCEPT THE LOSS OF 50% OWNERSHIP RIGHTS IN YOUR OWN CHARACTERS".

That just stings. I feel like Charlie Brown being told to kick the damned football.

:rolleyes:

So. Don't. Enter.

good luck with your career.

[nwspencer]

Understand it's not about money. I don't care if I don't make a dime on the book the artist draws and he keeps every single dollar. I don't care, I'll happily sacrifice the front AND the back money for a chance at publication, but I will NOT give up ownership of my characters and stories forever.

Publishing rights are limited. Ownership is forever.

Kitty, I'm sorry, but you are just flat out, completely, and totally wrong about this. And quite frankly, you're coming off as ill-informed and completely disrespectful of the artist's role in the creation of a comic book.

NEARLY EVERY CREATOR-OWNED BOOK ON THE MARKET TODAY OPERATES UNDER THIS SAME ARRANGEMENT.

Not only that, but what a horrible way to talk about your creative partner in the process. They're not your slave. They're investing in the work just as much as you are, if not more-- I can bang out a script in 2-3 days, but it'll take my artist 8 hours a day for a month to draw it.

And as for having a 'visual idea' for your characters? Ha... well, then, draw the book yourself. Oh wait... you mean you don't have the skill/talent to do that? Hmm... sounds like you need someone else, a creative partner of sorts, to make that dream a reality.

If I get an idea for a web site, say a social networking site, I have to go get a tech person to develop it. I might have the idea, I might be able to visualize the way it should look, but the person who goes in and actually does it is certainly doing an equal amount of work.

Bottom line, it's an absolutely disrespectful and disgusting attitude to have towards your artists, and one that will get you NOWHERE in this industry. This is how ALAN MOORE does it for God's sake. I think it's fairly safe to say you won't find a working pro in comics today that will agree with your statement.

I have 3 pitches in development. I go to a lot of cons. So I know a decent number of writers and editors, and I don't know of a single project that DOESN'T work this way, including my own. The distant between a script and your visual ideas and a finished product is massive.

I just find it laughable how condescending you were here, considering how off-base and out of line you are. Again, this is the standard arrangement on 99 percent of the books Image or most small press publishers, and I hate that anyone might think otherwise due to your post. And most of these projects start with an email or two-- yes, most of their time the creators in question don't really know each other beforehand, outside maybe a drink at a con. Somehow, it seems to work out for most of us.

Artists deserve a share of the property for all the hard work and creativity they put into a comic. I feel sorry for you that you don't understand this very basic premise, and I certainly feel bad for your career aspirations.

Sorry, this one got under my skin for a variety of reasons...

[Blackbeard]

:rolleyes:

So. Don't. Enter.

good luck with your career.

This is why I quit my job as a submissions editor. :D

[kitty_tc]

Co-ownership with the artist is not uncommon. Especially if you can't afford to pay for a work-for-hire contract. For an opportunity to be published by Image, I would do it. It may not be for everyone, but to me, your IP is useless if it never goes anywhere beyond your hard drive. Image, and Franchesco for that matter, can make your IP actually worth something. It's a personal choice. I personally feel that in order to jump start your career, you may have to make a few sacrifices.

That's the thing, I don't expect them to pay me and I don't expect them to risk money on me. I don't mind the artist and company keeping 100% of the money for the book they make. That to me is reasonable and fair.

What I can not ever do is sign away my characters. Ever. Period. It's wrong to even ask me to.

And to me that's the difference between a work and a love. My characters and my stories are not "worthless" to me even if they never earn me a dime and they could not be worth more to me even if I made millions from them. They're what I love, period.

Yes, the opportunity to make money doing what I love is great, who wouldn't want that? But it's not worth the cost of giving up my creations. They're mine. If it comes to it, they'll die with me. Or I'll publish them for free and whoever likes them can remember them after I'm gone. But I'm not giving them to someone else. Not at any price. Not even at gunpoint.

They're the only things in this world that are truly mine.

[GLX]

kitty, no offense, but you're sounding a bit selfish. As someone who has attempted to draw and write a comic, in my teen years, it takes a LOT of patience and skill to draw a comic. 50/50 is definately a good deal.

[The_Adventurer]

That's the thing, I don't expect them to pay me and I don't expect them to risk money on me. I don't mind the artist and company keeping 100% of the money for the book they make. That to me is reasonable and fair.

What I can not ever do is sign away my characters. Ever. Period. It's wrong to even ask me to.

And to me that's the difference between a work and a love. My characters and my stories are not "worthless" to me even if they never earn me a dime and they could not be worth more to me even if I made millions from them. They're what I love, period.

Yes, the opportunity to make money doing what I love is great, who wouldn't want that? But it's not worth the cost of giving up my creations. They're mine. If it comes to it, they'll die with me. Or I'll publish them for free and whoever likes them can remember them after I'm gone. But I'm not giving them to someone else. Not at any price. Not even at gunpoint.

They're the only things in this world that are truly mine.

Eh... I think you're going a little too far. Some creations are precious and should be protected. But not all of them You'll never get anywhere without a huge pocket book or be willing to give a little away for financial support. At least in this case your ownership is split with an individual and not some faceless corporation.

You don't have to submit your pet project that you covet, come up with something new to submit. Or rework an old discarded idea (like I'm doing). This opportunity to add published work to your portfolio is tough to pass up. At least for me. And working with a professional like Franchesco? Damn. That'd be a dream.

[BlakSun]

That's the thing, I don't expect them to pay me and I don't expect them to risk money on me. I don't mind the artist and company keeping 100% of the money for the book they make. That to me is reasonable and fair.

What I can not ever do is sign away my characters. Ever. Period. It's wrong to even ask me to.

And to me that's the difference between a work and a love. My characters and my stories are not "worthless" to me even if they never earn me a dime and they could not be worth more to me even if I made millions from them. They're what I love, period.

Yes, the opportunity to make money doing what I love is great, who wouldn't want that? But it's not worth the cost of giving up my creations. They're mine. If it comes to it, they'll die with me. Or I'll publish them for free and whoever likes them can remember them after I'm gone. But I'm not giving them to someone else. Not at any price. Not even at gunpoint.

They're the only things in this world that are truly mine.


:rolleyes:

So. Don't. Enter.

Seriously, you've made your point (such as it is).

Good luck with your career. When does your comic come out again?

[nwspencer]

That's the thing, I don't expect them to pay me and I don't expect them to risk money on me. I don't mind the artist and company keeping 100% of the money for the book they make. That to me is reasonable and fair.

What I can not ever do is sign away my characters. Ever. Period. It's wrong to even ask me to.

And to me that's the difference between a work and a love. My characters and my stories are not "worthless" to me even if they never earn me a dime and they could not be worth more to me even if I made millions from them. They're what I love, period.

Yes, the opportunity to make money doing what I love is great, who wouldn't want that? But it's not worth the cost of giving up my creations. They're mine. If it comes to it, they'll die with me. Or I'll publish them for free and whoever likes them can remember them after I'm gone. But I'm not giving them to someone else. Not at any price. Not even at gunpoint.

They're the only things in this world that are truly mine.

Then write a damn novel.

But comics are a visual medium, and if you don't have the skill to create the visuals, then it sounds like you need to take on a partner.

It's just sickening that there are people out there with this kind of attitude towards artists.

And what really disgusts me is Kitty acting like this is some scam they're trying to sneak by people, when this is standard operating procedure in comics publishing-- and for good reason.

So, if an artist does a book with you, and then it gets optioned for a movie-- you think YOU should get all of that money? Even though clearly his/her art will have a huge impact on the visuals of the film?

[kitty_tc]

Kitty, I'm sorry, [which you aren't as the snipped rant proves]

Sorry, this one got under my skin for a variety of reasons...

My stories and my characters are MINE. Understand this? I suppose I won't have a career then. So be it. As I said, I'll give the stories away to read for free then. Won't make a dime. That's fine with me. I'll stay in the realm of "original fanfic" forever. So be it.

Maybe people will give a fu<aaa>ck a few years or decades after I'm dead. Maybe they won't. Regardless, no one will have control over my soul. Which is what giving my creative control and ownership is to me --selling my soul. Because my art is my soul. It's all I really care about in this world.

I'm sorry you don't understand that, but I'm ok with it. I have no thirst for wealth, and I don't care how much money there is at stake. I'd be overjoyed to make enough to support a small apartment and a used car and my basic necessities, while writing full time. That'd be "making it" for me. Fortune I can do without. Someone who wants to collaborate can keep the lion's share of the money, that's fine with me. All I care about is I don't sacrifice what is mine.

There was a story I read about a guy who was held as a pow or something for years, and he coped by building a clock in his head. He'd imagine it in precise detail for hours, building and crafting and assembling it in his head piece by piece, and it kept him sane. It was his refuge, no matter what his captors did to him. it kept him from breaking. It was the one thing they could never touch. They tried to take it from him, but they couldn't find it. They tried to threaten it from him, he wouldn't give it up. They tried to buy it from him, but there was no price he would take. It was his.

My stories and my characters are my mind's eye clock. I won't give them up at any price.

Agree or disagree as you wish, but it's how I feel.

[kitty_tc]

:rolleyes:

So. Don't. Enter.

Seriously, you've made your point (such as it is).

Good luck with your career. When does your comic come out again?

5th of never. Thank you, drive through.

[BlakSun]

My stories and my characters are MINE. Understand this? I suppose I won't have a career then. So be it. As I said, I'll give the stories away to read for free then. Won't make a dime. That's fine with me. I'll stay in the realm of "original fanfic" forever. So be it.

Maybe people will give a fu<aaa>ck a few years or decades after I'm dead. Maybe they won't. Regardless, no one will have control over my soul. Which is what giving my creative control and ownership is to me --selling my soul. Because my art is my soul. It's all I really care about in this world.

I'm sorry you don't understand that, but I'm ok with it. I have no thirst for wealth, and I don't care how much money there is at stake. I'd be overjoyed to make enough to support a small apartment and a used car and my basic necessities, while writing full time. That'd be "making it" for me. Fortune I can do without. Someone who wants to collaborate can keep the lion's share of the money, that's fine with me. All I care about is I don't sacrifice what is mine.

There was a story I read about a guy who was held as a pow or something for years, and he coped by building a clock in his head. He'd imagine it in precise detail for hours, building and crafting and assembling it in his head piece by piece, and it kept him sane. It was his refuge, no matter what his captors did to him. it kept him from breaking. It was the one thing they could never touch. They tried to take it from him, but they couldn't find it. They tried to threaten it from him, he wouldn't give it up. They tried to buy it from him, but there was no price he would take. It was his.

My stories and my characters are my mind's eye clock. I won't give them up at any price.

Agree or disagree as you wish, but it's how I feel.

yeah. i'm going to just put you on ignore now.

[kitty_tc]

Then write a damn novel.

But comics are a visual medium, and if you don't have the skill to create the visuals, then it sounds like you need to take on a partner.

It's just sickening that there are people out there with this kind of attitude towards artists.

And what really disgusts me is Kitty acting like this is so scam they're trying to sneak by people, when this is standard operating procedure in comics publishing-- and for good reason.

So, if an artist does a book with you, and then it gets optioned for a movie-- you think YOU should get all of that money? Even though clearly his/her art will have a huge impact on the visuals of the film?

What part of they can have ALL the money did you fail to understand?

Learn to read, damn.

[Blackbeard]

5th of never. Thank you, drive through.

I think you'd have a successful career in emo rock, though. :D

Seriously, we understand your point. Good luck in your endeavors.

[theNameless]

That's the thing, I don't expect them to pay me and I don't expect them to risk money on me. I don't mind the artist and company keeping 100% of the money for the book they make. That to me is reasonable and fair.

What I can not ever do is sign away my characters. Ever. Period. It's wrong to even ask me to.

And to me that's the difference between a work and a love. My characters and my stories are not "worthless" to me even if they never earn me a dime and they could not be worth more to me even if I made millions from them. They're what I love, period.

Yes, the opportunity to make money doing what I love is great, who wouldn't want that? But it's not worth the cost of giving up my creations. They're mine. If it comes to it, they'll die with me. Or I'll publish them for free and whoever likes them can remember them after I'm gone. But I'm not giving them to someone else. Not at any price. Not even at gunpoint.

They're the only things in this world that are truly mine.

I interned at a publishing house last year (completely different from this though- cook books. urgh). This is pretty much the stance that leads to some amazing creators getting turned down. Not only is it ill-informed but it's also clashes with the very notion of publication through a third party.

Become a superstar writer BEFORE acting like one.

[GLX]

I think you'd have a successful career in emo rock, though. :D

Seriously, we understand your point. Good luck in your endeavors.

See this? This is class.

[kitty_tc]

yeah. i'm going to just put you on ignore now.

Bye. *waves*

[theNameless]

WHAT PART OF THEY CAN HAVE ALL THE MONEY DID YOU FAIL TO FU<AAA>CKING UNDERSTAND?

Learn to read, damn.

Damn it woman why are you even posting here?! This is an offer that a lot of people out there are interested in! It is not by any means outrageous or a "rip-off" as you are trying to peddle it. We understand the fact that your sensitive creative genius does not feel like this is the proper venue to convey your concept's greatness (how dare they give the artist his fair share? The arrogance of them) but at this point you're just making a spectacle of yourself since....wait for it....NO ONE IS FORCING YOU TO PARTICIPATE. You've stated your opinion. Move on.

[nwspencer]

WHAT PART OF THEY CAN HAVE ALL THE MONEY DID YOU FAIL TO FU<AAA>CKING UNDERSTAND?

Learn to read, damn.

Yeeaahhhh... you're real generous. And clearly, you have a great grasp of what an artist does to bring flat words on a page to life, and how that's equally important to the words themselves. But enjoy your emo stories. Probably would've been cool to actually make comics, right? But hey, at least you've got your soul. Sounds like Livejournal's more the place for your masterworks.

But again, what's truly funny is your assertion that they "snuck this in" when there's absolutely nothing unique about the deal. Hilarious.

[The_Adventurer]

My stories and my characters are MINE.

*snip*

Agree or disagree as you wish, but it's how I feel.

See, this is Pro Creator Rights taken to it's extreme conclusion. It's like you don't want your stories to ever be read by people in a public forum. No professional writer or artist doesn't give up some form of creative freedom when they find a publishing venue. Nothing comes without a hitch of some kind.

[kitty_tc]

Yeeaahhhh... you're real generous. And clearly, you have a great grasp of what an artist does to bring flat words on a page to life, and how that's equally important to the words themselves. But enjoy your emo stories. Probably would've been cool to actually make comics, right? But hey, at least you've got your soul. Sounds like Livejournal's more the place for your masterworks.

But again, what's truly funny is your assertion that they "snuck this in" when there's absolutely nothing unique about the deal. Hilarious.

What makes it seem ok to you, honestly? Does every artist that draws Spider-Man hold a creator's stake? When the hell has that ever happened? Why should the first person to draw the character get co-creator rights when none of the subsequent artists do, even if they are only drawing to spec?

And in my case, this artist would not even be the first artist to draw these characters. Why should he get co-creator rights and the first person I ever had draw them not? It's a fundamentally screwed up deal, and I'm sorry if you can't see that.

[nwspencer]

What makes it seem ok to you, honestly? Does every artist that draws Spider-Man hold a creator's stake? When the hell has that ever happened? Why should the first person to draw the character get co-creator rights when none of the subsequent artists do, even if they are only drawing to spec?

And in my case, this artist would not even be the first artist to draw these characters. Why should he get co-creator rights and the first person I ever had draw them not? It's a fundamentally screwed up deal, and I'm sorry if you can't see that.

Yeah-- me and Brian K. Vaughan and Neil Gaiman and Robert Kirkman and Brian Bendis and Alan Moore are real idiots for going along with this kind of deal.

You clearly have zero understanding of how a creator-owned book happens, and the fact that you used Spider-Man as proof of that is pretty strong evidence of that. Hey, how about you ask Steve Ditko about that one?

As for when a book changes artists, there are a number of ways it plays out-- Robert Kirkman had something like that happen with Invincible. Cory Walker still has some creator rights on the book, but so does Ryan Ottley. They work it amongst themselves.

Of course, God help the artist that ever DID go into a venture with you. You seem to have some pretty amazing interpersonal skills.

[Smalls]

They're publishing the book, three issues of the book and advertising and distributing it... and bringing on a full-fledged pro-artist... again, all of this, no cost to you. It's not even a matter of them "not paying you at all" or whatever, Kit.

There's a value probably at least in the five digits sunk into the winner's project, y'know.

If it bothers you so much, why not come up with some ideas that you're not so married to and aren't of such a value to you and... submit those to this thing?

Then maybe it'd crack the door for you and your idea that's so precious that you... don't want to share it with... anyone unless everything is absolutely perfect in everyway?

I'm sorry, it doesn't sound like a healthy way to go about being a storyteller. Storytellers make up new stories and new stories and new stories, they don't just have one perfect story that they let rot on the vine and take to the grave.

Do whatever you want, K, but it's just a really unrealistic and unhealthy attitude if you have any aspirations toward the entertainment industry.

[Darkhawk]

Hey look a Create your own Super-Heroine contest! Looks pretty cool! One person's not entering, but hey let's chat about how AWESOME it will be to see one of our names in published work! :D

[nwspencer]

I wonder if the Shadowline crew had a pool on when the talkback would descend into a nasty argument of some kind. Whoever picked page 4-- you win! :D

Then again, I'm pretty sure they're married to their inboxes for the duration of this contest.

[BryanRocks]

Hey look a Create your own Super-Heroine contest! Looks pretty cool! One person's not entering, but hey let's chat about how AWESOME it will be to see one of our names in published work! :D

Quoted for massive amounts of truth. I'd like to thank Kris, the F-Man, Jim Valentino, and Newsarama for doing this. Thanks for giving us (John Q Public) a chance to put up or shut up. I hope we don't let you down.

[NielsVanEekelen]

My stories and my characters are MINE. Understand this? I suppose I won't have a career then. So be it. As I said, I'll give the stories away to read for free then. Won't make a dime. That's fine with me. I'll stay in the realm of "original fanfic" forever. So be it.
That's the freaking POINT!

You want to write just for yourself--you can do what you want with your stories. You want to get PUBLISHED, which is what this contest offers, you have to deal with the rest of the world, which includes artists who deserve their fair share for A) what they bring to the table in terms of creativity and B) the time and effort and material they invest in something you convinced them would be worth it in the end.



Let's swing this thread back around to something more productive. Kris, what we all really want to know--can we have guest appearances by Editor Girl as well?:D

[TheToileteer]

Apologies if this question has been asked before, but this has always bothered me: Why in God's name didn't they name the character "Bombshell" instead of "Bomb Queen", thus allowing a neat double-meaning? Was "Bombshell" already taken?

[kitty_tc]

Of course, God help the artist that ever DID go into a venture with you. You seem to have some pretty amazing interpersonal skills.

I have one actually. She and I get along pretty well and we've never tried to claim one another's characters. Have you ever considered that I might be thinking of her and not screwing her over or cutting her out with a boneheaded deal with someone I never even met?

They're publishing the book, three issues of the book and advertising and distributing it... and bringing on a full-fledged pro-artist... again, all of this, no cost to you. It's not even a matter of them "not paying you at all" or whatever, Kit.

There's a value probably at least in the five digits sunk into the winner's project, y'know.

If it bothers you so much, why not come up with some ideas that you're not so married to and aren't of such a value to you and... submit those to this thing?

Then maybe it'd crack the door for you and your idea that's so precious that you... don't want to share it with... anyone unless everything is absolutely perfect in everyway?

I'm sorry, it doesn't sound like a healthy way to go about being a storyteller. Storytellers make up new stories and new stories and new stories, they don't just have one perfect story that they let rot on the vine and take to the grave.

Do whatever you want, K, but it's just a really unrealistic and unhealthy attitude if you have any aspirations toward the entertainment industry.

I'm sure I've poisoned whatever slim chances I might have had anyhow. It's been a sh<aaa>itty day and a sh<aaa>itty month on top of a lot of other crap and the emotional ragged edge I'm riding should be pretty obvious, as I've been volitile today even for my legendary cajun temper.

There's not much else to say at this point. I suppose I'm out.

[Darkhawk]

Apologies if this question has been asked before, but this has always bothered me: Why in God's name didn't they name the character "Bombshell" instead of "Bomb Queen", thus allowing a neat double-meaning? Was "Bombshell" already taken?

Yes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombshell_%28Marvel_Comics%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombshell_%28DC_Comics%29

Also the Queen part fits since she was in that group called the Four Queens

[Smalls]

Ah, Kitty, I'm sure if your other ideas are good too, no one'll even remember this thing... let alone associate your entry to your screenname on an internet message board.

Certainly no one who actually involved in the judging of the entries, hell, they're probably too busy sorting through hundreds of entries already.

Just because in my opinion you're being unrealistic about a contest to get your idea turned into a major-label comic and... strangely ardent about your unrealistic stance... doesn't mean that you don't have some really good ideas up your sleeve.

All good writers are possessed of a half-measure of madness. It's just about... keeping it just around half, as I have trouble with, too.

But good luck, either way.

[The_Adventurer]

Submissions.... AWAY

[kitty_tc]

Ah, Kitty, I'm sure if your other ideas are good too, no one'll even remember this thing... let alone associate your entry to your screenname on an internet message board.

Certainly no one who actually involved in the judging of the entries, hell, they're probably too busy sorting through hundreds of entries already.

Just because in my opinion you're being unrealistic about a contest to get your idea turned into a major-label comic and... strangely ardent about your unrealistic stance... doesn't mean that you don't have some really good ideas up your sleeve.

All good writers are possessed of a half-measure of madness. It's just about... keeping it just around half, as I have trouble with, too.

But good luck, either way.

I still can't give my characters away. What would that do to the artist I'm already working with? How would that be fair to her? Anything I give up ownership on to someone else, I can't work with her on. And while I'm sure this artist they have lined up is cool and professional and all, they're not her.

It's sad for me, as this would really be a good opportunity for me without the ownership clause. And it really got my hopes up for a little bit today and to have the door slammed closed on the idea really bummed me out and got me upset, as it was just the icing on a particularly horrid day.

Thank you for the kind words and well wishes, though, just the same.

[Darkhawk]

I still can't give my characters away. What would that do to the artist I'm already working with? How would that be fair to her? Anything I give up ownership on to someone else, I can't work with her on. And while I'm sure this artist they have lined up is cool and professional and all, they're not her.

It's sad for me, as this would really be a good opportunity for me without the ownership clause. And it really got my hopes up for a little bit today and to have the door slammed closed on the idea really bummed me out and got me upset, as it was just the icing on a particularly horrid day.

No one wants to give up their "prized possessions." Zuda Comics is a good opportunity too, but the guy I asked to draw it hasn't done anything. So for me this is a great oportunity!

Sorry that you don't like the details, some contests aren't for everybody.

I look forward to February and hearing back about my pitches. I'm thrilled that those of us who haven't had luck finding an artist to work with have a chance to break in. :)

[nwspencer]

I still can't give my characters away. What would that do to the artist I'm already working with? How would that be fair to her? Anything I give up ownership on to someone else, I can't work with her on. And while I'm sure this artist they have lined up is cool and professional and all, they're not her.

It's sad for me, as this would really be a good opportunity for me without the ownership clause. And it really got my hopes up for a little bit today and to have the door slammed closed on the idea really bummed me out and got me upset, as it was just the icing on a particularly horrid day.

Nonsensical. Now you're basically trying to divert this into a I-can't-do-my-story-because-it has-an-artist-already thing, which is totally different.

I feel sorry for any artist working with you, because they're getting screwed over if the project goes anywhere. They can get a better deal working with just about anyone else. I don't have any problem being harsh about it, because the bottom line is you're ripping off any artist you work with. If you think a page rate, or even the profits from a small press book, match the investment gained from rights, you're delusional. Any artist who took that deal needs to realize they can do much better elsewhere.

Obviously you can't pitch something you're working on with someone else-- but what the hell does that even have to do with this? And what, is that the only idea you've ever had or something?

Bottom line, I don't care. What I did care about is your inferences that this was somehow a scam or a bad deal, and your 'cautions' to people going into it. As you can tell by the fact that no one here agrees with you, it was way out of line. Image is a company that was founded on creators' rights. These editors and artists are people who might be able to make money working at the big two, but they do this because they care about creators and want to be a part of making comics the right way. And if you think people are being rough here, go over to Digital Webbing with this... those artists will have a field day with your argument.

Again, don't care about you or the spectacle you've made of yourself here-- just want to make sure anyone reading this thread, who might pitching an idea for the first time realizes that this is NOT, by any means, a scam or a bad deal-- it's the normal arrangement on published creator-owned comics.

[nwspencer]

I still can't give my characters away.

And one last thing. No one is giving up anything. You take on an EQUAL partner. NEITHER of you can do something without the other. It's a partnership between creators. People who understand the distance between a script and a comic understand why the artist gets 50 percent.

[Fresco]

why not come up with some ideas that you're not so married to and aren't of such a value to you and... submit those to this thing?

I agree with you and your entire post Smalls
--while you bring up an interesting point.

I have ZERO interest in working with anyone who is not going to be bringing their "A-Game". I'm not going to just phone-it-in here. I want to work with someone who is so super-passionate about their work as I am, that it borders on unhealthy obsession.


I believe in Image, and I believe in this project. I am gonna work hard and long, to make it the best it can be. I don't know what the future holds, or what shape it will take, but I can't wait to get there.

This is going to be so much fun!!! :)

[nwspencer]

I agree with you and your entire post Smalls
--while you bring up an interesting point.

I have ZERO interest in working with anyone who is not going to be bringing their "A-Game". I'm not going to just phone-it-in here. I want to work with someone who is so super-passionate about their work as I am, that it borders on unhealthy obsession.


I believe in Image, and I believe in this project. I am gonna work hard and long, to make it the best it can be. I don't know what the future holds, or what shape it will take, but I can't wait to get there.

This is going to be so much fun!!! :)

Yeah... focusing back on the positive-- Franchesco, it is really, really cool of you to do this. Win or lose (and hopefully you'll like my submissions :D ), I'm very excited about the contest and what comes out of it. Best of luck, sincerely.

[theNameless]

Nonsensical. Now you're basically trying to divert this into a I-can't-do-my-story-because-it has-an-artist-already thing, which is totally different.

I feel sorry for any artist working with you, because they're getting screwed over if the project goes anywhere. They can get a better deal working with just about anyone else. I don't have any problem being harsh about it, because the bottom line is you're ripping off any artist you work with. If you think a page rate, or even the profits from a small press book, match the investment gained from rights, you're delusional. Any artist who took that deal needs to realize they can do much better elsewhere.

Obviously you can't pitch something you're working on with someone else-- but what the hell does that even have to do with this? And what, is that the only idea you've ever had or something?

Bottom line, I don't care. What I did care about is your inferences that this was somehow a scam or a bad deal, and your 'cautions' to people going into it. As you can tell by the fact that no one here agrees with you, it was way out of line. Image is a company that was founded on creators' rights. These editors and artists are people who might be able to make money working at the big two, but they do this because they care about creators and want to be a part of making comics the right way. And if you think people are being rough here, go over to Digital Webbing with this... those artists will have a field day with your argument.

Again, don't care about you or the spectacle you've made of yourself here-- just want to make sure anyone reading this thread, who might pitching an idea for the first time realizes that this is NOT, by any means, a scam or a bad deal-- it's the normal arrangement on published creator-owned comics.

I don't usually quote for truth but dammit, this deserves it. QFT. Especially the bolded part. Whatever misguided misgivings you may have with this great contest you should not be airing them as FACT and turning off potential participants.

I'm the antithesis of a writer but I would still love it if at the end ALL the submissions were posted to read through. Might be entertaining. :D

[Mario Ramos]

You had me until the "artist gets half ownership" bit. Really, are you kidding me?

I wouldn't be writer if I did not have a clear visual design for my characters before they're ever put to script, which can be described in any level of detail necessary to provide a model from which the artist should work, and can even provide pre-commissioned sketches and art pieces for visual reference. In fact, I do not want an artist doing any visual design work at all, I want them to draw the characters I created the way I tell them they should look, period.



If you want to write something that is by you and only you...write a novel, or draw it, ink it, letter it, color it yourself.

In comics, in movies, or even in theater, the final product is the result of the collaboration of many people, in which everyone brings a bit of his SUBJECTIVENESS. If you are serious about writing comics, or movies, or tv, you have to understand that, and be ready to accept it. If you don't, then move on to something else, because it will never go your way.

I have directed several short movies. I wrote and directed them. Are they exactly as I imagined them? Of course not. Because there are several other people involved. The director of photography, the camera operator, the sound recorder, etc, etc. And you know what? That's cool because they are not furniture, they are not tools to be used; each and every single one of them is an ARTIST. Truth be told, the final art work wouldn't exist without them.

Same things in comics, if you're only a writer, you need an artist...an ARTIST. The definition of an artist is that he produces art; and art is subjective, and if the artist can't bring some of his own subjectiveness...then he is not an artist anymore. He is only a tool you order around, and that, no artist would ever accept to be.

If you write a novel, then it is only yours, because the novel itself is an art work. If you write a script for comics, cinema, tv or theater. Then, the script is not an art work in itself, it is only a blueprint, a guideline...a tool, that will help the create the final art work that will be yours, and equally to any other people involved, because the other people are actual human beings and not machines you can program.

If you are serious about writing, I suggest you a big change of attitude. If not, it doesn't make you a bad person, it only makes you a bad writer. Because being a good writer is as much about talent than it is about how you interact with the artists that will bring your initial idea to life.

[kitty_tc]

And one last thing. No one is giving up anything. You take on an EQUAL partner. NEITHER of you can do something without the other. It's a partnership between creators. People who understand the distance between a script and a comic understand why the artist gets 50 percent.

Which is the same thing as no control. They're not my characters anymore when I give away 50% of ownership to this artist. And why should I? Did he make them up? Was he there when I invented them? Is he going to be there when and if I make up new ones? I don't even know this person.

Stop trying to conflate a collaborative effort with an artist working on a finished story with completed characters after the point of creation. I don't know if you're being disingenuous or merely foolish, but either way you're wrong.

There is a HUGE difference between publishing rights with residuals and ownership of intellectual property.

For example, let's say I have a story, let's call it "Kitty's Shi<aaa>tty Day". I wrote it all myself, with no input from anyone. It's mine, it exists nowhere in any form but my own mind.

With ownership, I can take that story and make it into a comic book script, a short film script, a prose short story, an internet toon made with flash animation, anything. I can make a sequel or a prequel to it, I can rewrite it as often as I like, or I can take characters from it and spin them off into other stories. Whatever I want, it's my story, I made it up, that's that.

I can sell publishing rights to it, or movie rights, or whatever, but that does not change that it's my story. It doesn't add authorship to whomever makes the media adaptation and they only own a stake in the adaptation they have a hand in making. It's still "Kitty's Shi<aaa>tty Day" by Kitty_tc, not "Kitty's Shi<aaa>tty Day" by Kitty_tc and whoever the hell is making the adaptation who wasn't even there when the thing was made up in the first place. Original authorship is not shared nor is it in dispute.

This deal isn't like that. This deal gives creator rights, claims of original authorship, to a man who has had no hand in the authorship process. A person who has been handed a complete story to draw, and wants to claim that he made up half of it when he clearly did not do so. How can he have made up "Kitty's Shi<aaa>tty Day"? He never heard of it until right now. But this deal gives him the rights and the legal claim that he made up half of it, despite having made up none of it.

Drawing something someone else created is not the same as creating it, or else everyone who ever drew a commission of my original characters would have a creator claim --and I somehow doubt that. Don't try to pretend this is all no big deal when it is clearly not as trivial as you wish to claim.

[JimmyKitty]

Wow... nice response to this great opportunity.
Kris is gonna get swamped! Shadowline / Image kudos!

As the creator of Bomb Queen let me just chime in that I am 100% stoked to have even a scribble by Franchesco of my villain character.

As for all the writers looking for an easy ride? No... not with the Queen.
Let me drop the law. Know your enemy. The Queen HATES heroes in all forms.
This is not some boo-hoo poor sap turned villain, or someone blackmailed into the dark side with a sob story you can exploit. This is a pure villain. A mean warped b*tch! You don't ask why the Joker is insane, right? Don't look for sympathy here, either. You will be tested.

You got a heroine? Bring it. Bomb Queen is a hero killer.
Think you got the bones to take her down? I challenge you!

My advice... don't make a heroine just to fight the Queen. That's been done. She's figured out that old game. That's like a lame Kryptonite-based character to fight Superman. We've seen that and there are ways around it. Just pull out your best heroine with her own deal. And make it good! After all, while Bomb Queen may be your first enemy, she might not be your last.

That is... if your wussy, newbie, lame-joke, heroine doesn't die first.

[Fresco]

Franchesco, it is really, really cool of you to do this. Win or lose (and hopefully you'll like my submissions :D ), I'm very excited about the contest and what comes out of it. Best of luck, sincerely.

(I hope so too...) Thank you, and best of luck to you as well, NWSPENCER.
How fun will it be when we are in San Diego or Wizard World, signing copies of the mini-series,
and laughing about how great it was that it all came together on Newsarama...

man-oh-man ...is it January yet??? :D

[Darkhawk]

You got a heroine? Bring it. Bomb Queen is a hero killer.
Think you got the bones to take her down? I challenge you!


I'll bring it! Bomb Queen's reign of terror will fall at the hands of Hula Hoop Girl! :D Heh, j/k

My heroine will bring the smackdown! The outcome will be a blast! ;)

[Fresco]

As the creator of Bomb Queen let me just chime in that I am 100% stoked to have even a scribble by Franchesco of my villain character.
Hey there Jimmy, thank you-- but the pleasure is all mine.
I'm all kinds of jazzed about BQ... I really appreciate your generosity in letting her join the party.
Let the games begin!!!


(somebody quick, build me a time machine!) :D

[nwspencer]

Which is the same thing as no control. They're not my characters anymore when I give away 50% of ownership to this artist. And why should I? Did he make them up? Was he there when I invented them? Is he going to be there when and if I make up new ones? I don't even know this person.

Stop trying to conflate a collaborative effort with an artist working on a finished story with completed characters after the point of creation. I don't know if you're being disingenuous or merely foolish, but either way you're wrong.

There is a HUGE difference between publishing rights with residuals and ownership of intellectual property.

For example, let's say I have a story, let's call it "Kitty's Shi<aaa>tty Day". I wrote it all myself, with no input from anyone. It's mine, it exists nowhere in any form but my own mind.

With ownership, I can take that story and make it into a comic book script, a short film script, a prose short story, an internet toon made with flash animation, anything. I can make a sequel or a prequel to it, I can rewrite it as often as I like, or I can take characters from it and spin them off into other stories. Whatever I want, it's my story, I made it up, that's that.

I can sell publishing rights to it, or movie rights, or whatever, but that does not change that it's my story. It doesn't add authorship to whomever makes the media adaptation and they only own a stake in the adaptation they have a hand in making. It's still "Kitty's Shi<aaa>tty Day" by Kitty_tc, not "Kitty's Shi<aaa>tty Day" by Kitty_tc and whoever the hell is making the adaptation who wasn't even there when the thing was made up in the first place. Original authorship is not shared nor is it in dispute.

This deal isn't like that. This deal gives creator rights, claims of original authorship, to a man who has had no hand in the authorship process. A person who has been handed a complete story to draw, and wants to claim that he made up half of it when he clearly did not do so. How can he have made up "Kitty's Shi<aaa>tty Day"? He never heard of it until right now. But this deal gives him the rights and the legal claim that he made up half of it, despite having made up none of it.

Drawing something someone else created is not the same as creating it, or else everyone who ever drew a commission of my original characters would have a creator claim --and I somehow doubt that. Don't try to pretend this is all no big deal when it is clearly not as trivial as you wish to claim.

Wow. Okay first of all, I think I speak for everyone when I say we're sick of you hijacking the thread. You're coming off as one step removed from batsh*t crazy, and that's cool, but you've said your near-psychotic peace, everyone's heard it, and everyone's gotten a good laugh out of it. Move on.

If you're writing a COMIC, it's not FINISHED until it's drawn. So you didn't finish sh*t. I write scripts and post them online all the time. 5 people read them. My artist partner draws up six of those pages from the script, and suddenly 100-plus people a day are clicking on the link.

And you clearly have no idea of how the option process for any other media works either. But needless to say, you're more than giving up rights there.

But whatever. If you can't tell from the constant deluge of people disagreeing with you, no one's on your side. Enough. No one cares, and no one's gonna miss the adventures of Emo Girl whose powers only activate when she cuts herself or lashes out at people over the interwebs (copyright 2007, nwspencer, natch). It's all yours, no one's ever gonna have a hand in your precious. But please excuse the rest of us while we go make real comics and treat our artists like the equal creative partners they are in making these stories come to life for an audience.

[iwarrior]

I sent mine in. I have a feeling that it's an exercise in futilty though. It'll be too long or something.

I can't sum it up in 5 sentences. Oh well.

I sort of see kitty's point.

It recalls Peter David's WACKO Theory. Writer As Creative King and Overlord.

I definitely know what I want my characters to look like. But I can't draw to save my head from getting lopped off. Unless Franchesco comes up with something on paper that looks better than I imagined. Not that he's isn't a fine artist. I've been enjoying his work since I first saw it in Comics Buyer's Guide. One thing though. My female character will not resemble a busty porn star in spandex.

[Darkhawk]

No one cares, and no one's gonna miss the adventures of Emo Girl whose powers only activate when she cuts herself or lashes out at people over the interwebs (copyright 2007, nwspencer, natch).

Dang it, that was my 2nd pitch! ;)

Guess I will have to settle with Hula Hoop Girl (copyright 2007 Darkhawk) for that 2nd pitch now :eek:

[The_Adventurer]

I sent mine in. I have a feeling that it's an exercise in futilty though. It'll be too long or something.

I can't sum it up in 5 sentences. Oh well.

5 Sentences?

Damn, my paragraphs were about twice that... cramming 3 issues into one 5 sentence paragraph would have been tough. And vague...

[iwarrior]

Wow... nice response to this great opportunity.
Kris is gonna get swamped! Shadowline / Image kudos!

As the creator of Bomb Queen let me just chime in that I am 100% stoked to have even a scribble by Franchesco of my villain character.

As for all the writers looking for an easy ride? No... not with the Queen.
Let me drop the law. Know your enemy. The Queen HATES heroes in all forms.
This is not some boo-hoo poor sap turned villain, or someone blackmailed into the dark side with a sob story you can exploit. This is a pure villain. A mean warped b*tch! You don't ask why the Joker is insane, right? Don't look for sympathy here, either. You will be tested.

You got a heroine? Bring it. Bomb Queen is a hero killer.
Think you got the bones to take her down? I challenge you!

My advice... don't make a heroine just to fight the Queen. That's been done. She's figured out that old game. That's like a lame Kryptonite-based character to fight Superman. We've seen that and there are ways around it. Just pull out your best heroine with her own deal. And make it good! After all, while Bomb Queen may be your first enemy, she might not be your last.

That is... if your wussy, newbie, lame-joke, heroine doesn't die first.

No, I don't think so.

Bomb Queen would get her tacky, trashy ass handed to her by my character. Any of my female heroines. She wouldn't kill her though. Just humiliate her, bring her to justice, and show the world that most women aren't exhibitionistic, amoral skanks. Killing is for killers. My ladies don't kill.

Bottom line. Bomb Queen makes female supercharacters look very bad. That needs to be fixed. *knuckles crack* Feminism 'aint dead yet.

[Floodnado]

I have ZERO interest in working with anyone who is not going to be bringing their "A-Game". I'm not going to just phone-it-in here. I want to work with someone who is so super-passionate about their work as I am, that it borders on unhealthy obsession.

Heh, well the idea I'm thinking of submitting IS more of a "Plan B" but it doesn't mean I'd half-ass things. It's just a few of the other ones I juggled around were ones that I had long grown WAY too attached to while this one had been a little neglected. It's still one I think is neat and that I really like, just not my first choice.

It's cool you're doing this, as well. A real nice gesture on your part.

[iwarrior]

5 Sentences?

Damn, my paragraphs were about twice that... cramming 3 issues into one 5 sentence paragraph would have been tough. And vague...


Well let's see. I'm trying not to be ______. I just have a feeling I'm gonna get a big NO!

I actually have the whole thing written already, as a short prose story. I ultimately want to see it as a comic, although I never imagined Franchesco drawing it. Hopefully it will see print somehow. I may just go with the fiction route with all my characters. I almost don't even want to work in comics anymore. I'm going prose partly because it still seems like largely unexplored territory for supercharacters.

Besides, if yer gonna wear a fiction suit, who better than a hero. I mean, who would wanna be Harvey Zuckerman?

[BlakSun]

5 Sentences?

Damn, my paragraphs were about twice that... cramming 3 issues into one 5 sentence paragraph would have been tough. And vague...

"Contestants e-mail a BRIEF one paragraph story synopsis..."

[iwarrior]

That's the thing. I can't make it brief!!! LOL. It's frustrating.

It's not that I am not passionate. I am. I sometimes get choked up when I talk or think about my heroes and heroines because they mean a lot to me. They're personal.

I just get the feeling that what I submitted won't be what they're looking for. Or it won't fit a "format." Everyone has their little rules.

[The_Adventurer]

"Contestants e-mail a BRIEF one paragraph story synopsis..."

Yeah, Brief is kind of vague for a measurement. I didn't write an Essay, I know that much :p

Basicly they asked for the plot of the (three issue) series so that's what I hit them with. Distilled down to it's barebone basics. No subtext or mystery.

[BlakSun]

That's the thing. I can't make it brief!!! LOL. It's frustrating.

It's not that I am not passionate. I am. I sometimes get choked up when I talk or think about my heroes and heroines because they mean a lot to me. They're personal.

I just get the feeling that what I submitted won't be what they're looking for. Or it won't fit a "format." Everyone has their little rules.


As a fellow writer, and with all due respect, if you can't boil down your concept to a few powerful sentences (synopsis form) you really should look at understanding your story a bit more deeply.


My two cents.

[The_Adventurer]

As a fellow writer, and with all due respect, if you can't boil down your concept to a few powerful sentences (synopsis form) you really should look at understanding your story a bit more deeply.


The thing is, I can boil my concepts down to two or even one sentence. That's easy. Paraphrasing a storyarc, keeping the important details in, that's a bit challenging.


EDIT: Wait... did they want a concept pitch or a story arc pitch? The first bullet in the first post made it sound like they wanted the story plotted out fully.

[iwarrior]

That's what I'm trying to do. If I just state what the story is really about, it'll be vague. I can do that, but you won't know that it's a superhero story. And they want an ending also. When you read a synopsis of a comic in say a Westfield catalog, they don't give you an ending.

Maybe I should just think about my synopsis more. How to say it.

Eh, maybe I should just think of something else. I think I was hasty. I can do it.

[nwspencer]

You know, I'm just a wannabe like everyone else, so I'm in no position to give advice, but I like to challenge myself to condense any and every pitch I do to one or two sentences-- it CAN be done.

The Godfather Saga is the story of one man, born into a mob dynasty he wanted no part of, who is pulled into the depths of the very life he sought to escape-- and he'll have no one to blame for it but himself. It's a story of family, survival, and corruption of the soul.

In those two sentences, you do get to the crux of The Godfather. Did it tell us everything you need to know? Not even close. But it DOES gives us the basic idea of what The Godfather is about. As for a comic example...

Spider-Man is the story of Peter Parker, an average kid bitten by a radioactive spider that gives him amazing powers. But when his uncle dies a victim of a crime Peter could've easily stopped, our protagonist learns that with great power comes great responsibility-- and his life, super-powered or not, is about to get a lot harder...

It's not easy for anyone, but it has to be done-- and often, it can help us as writers because it forces US to realize what's at the core of our stories.

[Fresco]

I've been enjoying his work since I first saw it in Comics Buyer's Guide. One thing though. My female character will not resemble a busty porn star in spandex.
No problem, her bust size is of no concern-- she can be totally flat chested.
(Fresco casually throws "iwarrior" submission in the reject pile) kidding. ;)

Thanks for the compliment, ah yes the CBG --I so loved drawing those drawings, and loved Krause for publishing them as often as they did. I'll always be grateful to them for giving me a voice, while keeping hope alive at that formative time in my career. Thank you (Don) and Maggie Thompson- I love you guys!

For those who don't already know the answer to the inevitable 'Franchesco's draws boobies' question: Yeah sure, it takes the same amount of effort to draw big breasts as it does to draw small breasts-- so: "Why do I draw the female form the way I do?"

--Anyone?

[The_Adventurer]

You know, I'm just a wannabe like everyone else, so I'm in no position to give advice, but I like to challenge myself to condense any and every pitch I do to one or two sentences-- it CAN be done.

The Godfather Saga is the story of one man, born into a mob dynasty he wanted no part of, who is pulled into the depths of the very life he sought to escape-- and he'll have no one to blame for it but himself. It's a story of family, survival, and corruption of the soul.

In those two sentences, you do get to the crux of The Godfather. Did it tell us everything you need to know? Not even close. But it DOES gives us the basic idea of what The Godfather is about. As for a comic example...

Spider-Man is the story of Peter Parker, an average kid bitten by a radioactive spider that gives him amazing powers. But when his uncle dies a victim of a crime Peter could've easily stopped, our protagonist learns that with great power comes great responsibility-- and his life, super-powered or not, is about to get a lot harder...

It's not easy for anyone, but it has to be done-- and often, it can help us as writers because it forces US to realize what's at the core of our stories.


Yeah, that's easy. But I think this wants more then that. They want beginning, middle, climax and ending of the specific story you have in mind. Not just the sound bite.

I'd do examples of my pitches, but I'd rather keep them underwraps from the public ATM.

[BlakSun]

Scientist Bruce Banner is living in shadows, scouring the planet for an antidote. But the warmongers who dream of abusing his powers won't leave him alone, nor will his need to be with the only woman he has ever loved, Betty Ross.

When he returns to civilization, Banner finds himself ruthlessly pursued by The Abomination - a nightmarish beast of pure adrenaline and aggression whose powers match The Hulk's own. A fight of comic-book proportions ensues as Banner must call upon the hero within to rescue New York City from total destruction. And on June 13, 2008, one scientist must make an agonizing final choice -- accept a peaceful life as Bruce Banner or the creature he could permanently become: The Incredible Hulk.


It's for the upcoming Hulk movie, but an example of a relatively brief synopsis

[iwarrior]

No problem, her bust size is of no concern-- she can be totally flat chested.
(Fresco casually throws "iwarrior" submission in the reject pile) kidding. ;)

Thanks for the compliment, ah yes the CBG --I so loved drawing those drawings, and loved Krause for publishing them as often as they did. I'll always be grateful to them for giving me a voice, while keeping hope alive at that formative time in my career. Thank you (Don) and Maggie Thompson- I love you guys!

For those who don't already know the answer to the inevitable 'Franchesco's draws boobies' question: Yeah sure, it takes the same amount of effort to draw big breasts as it does to draw small breasts-- so: "Why do I draw the female form the way I do?"

--Anyone?

:) I wasn't bagging on ya. But we all know how sexed up superheroines can be.

Well.. she'll be a little bit at one point in the tale.

[iwarrior]

You know, I'm just a wannabe like everyone else, so I'm in no position to give advice, but I like to challenge myself to condense any and every pitch I do to one or two sentences-- it CAN be done.

The Godfather Saga is the story of one man, born into a mob dynasty he wanted no part of, who is pulled into the depths of the very life he sought to escape-- and he'll have no one to blame for it but himself. It's a story of family, survival, and corruption of the soul.

In those two sentences, you do get to the crux of The Godfather. Did it tell us everything you need to know? Not even close. But it DOES gives us the basic idea of what The Godfather is about. As for a comic example...

Spider-Man is the story of Peter Parker, an average kid bitten by a radioactive spider that gives him amazing powers. But when his uncle dies a victim of a crime Peter could've easily stopped, our protagonist learns that with great power comes great responsibility-- and his life, super-powered or not, is about to get a lot harder...

It's not easy for anyone, but it has to be done-- and often, it can help us as writers because it forces US to realize what's at the core of our stories.

I see what you're saying. I can do that for a whole series. They don't seem to be looking for a teaser or something though.

I can do it. I just have to think about it a little more. I'll send another. I have plenty of time. Thanks.

[David Bird]

You had me until the "artist gets half ownership" bit. Really, are you kidding me?

I was going to be sarcastic here, but...

I'm slightly concerned about the %50 ownership thing myself. The character I initially wanted to pitch is a character (and world) I've literally spent years developing and I can't in good faith risk losing full creator control on her this early in the game (especially with how a large number of my other concepts tie into the world of the character). So instead I'll be pitching a concept that while I've also put a bit of work into for a while, I won't be quite as anguished about if something happens and I can never publish it again. Don't worry, it's just as good. Infact it might be better because it probably has broader appeal built in.

really, everyone should treat this as the golden opportunity it is. Adventurer, you are right in not giving up something so dear to you. Instead, everyone should treat this as a chance to show what you are capable of and, if this is a success, then you it as a stepping stone to put your dream into print.

I write about comics and I have always been annoyed when people say that people like me are just waiting for our opportunity to write comics ourselves. I want to write, but, as much as I love the medium, writing for it has never been an ambition. BUT seeing this opportunity...

[kitty_tc]

Wow. Okay first of all, I think I speak for everyone when I say we're sick of you hijacking the thread. You're coming off as one step removed from batsh*t crazy, and that's cool, but you've said your near-psychotic peace, everyone's heard it, and everyone's gotten a good laugh out of it. Move on.

If you're writing a COMIC, it's not FINISHED until it's drawn. So you didn't finish sh*t. I write scripts and post them online all the time. 5 people read them. My artist partner draws up six of those pages from the script, and suddenly 100-plus people a day are clicking on the link.

And you clearly have no idea of how the option process for any other media works either. But needless to say, you're more than giving up rights there.

But whatever. If you can't tell from the constant deluge of people disagreeing with you, no one's on your side. Enough. No one cares, and no one's gonna miss the adventures of Emo Girl whose powers only activate when she cuts herself or lashes out at people over the interwebs (copyright 2007, nwspencer, natch). It's all yours, no one's ever gonna have a hand in your precious. But please excuse the rest of us while we go make real comics and treat our artists like the equal creative partners they are in making these stories come to life for an audience.

Yep, slamming stuff you have never read and know nothing about... that's the 'Rama for you.

Oh, and I cold-asked no less than three people the question: "If a writer has a story with original characters, and he (post-creation) works with an artist to transform it into a comic book, who owns the story and characters?" and all three of them said that unless the artist does design work on the project, the writer retains what he or she brought to the table before the artist got involved.

But hey, have fun signing away your characters. I'll make sure to post into the inevitable "Legal dispute over rights to contest submissions" thread with a hearty laugh and an I told you so.

With that, I'm out.

[iwarrior]

The characters I have in mind for this story, I KNOW what I want them to look like. That is one problem I may have with this.

I do however, have many other characters that I'm not sure how I want designed.

Comic book writers can totally create characters on their own. But when a writer comes up with an idea, and doesn't have a definite look in mind, that's the artist's domain imo. Plus, the artist could come up with things you never thought of for the character.

It's like writing a song. if someone comes up with a lick or a riff or something you didn't think of, and it stays in the song, that person gets a co-write do they not?

No one's forcing anyone to do this either. If you have cold feet about it, don't do it.

I'm gonna give it a shot. I have a feeling for some reason that it won't get used anyway, which is fine. It isn't the end of the world. I'm confident in my stories and my characters.

[nwspencer]

Yeah, that's easy. But I think this wants more then that. They want beginning, middle, climax and ending of the specific story you have in mind. Not just the sound bite.

I'd do examples of my pitches, but I'd rather keep them underwraps from the public ATM.

Watchmen in one paragraph:

Watchmen takes place in a world where cold war paranoia runs rampant and super-heroes are merely reflections of real human failings and tragedies-- a world teetering on the brink of its own destruction. When government hero The Comedian is found dead, the mentally imbalanced vigilante Rorschach unites some of this world's former heroes to solve the mystery, and in turn uncovers a global conspiracy that will lead to the death of millions. Our heroes will uncover a plot spawned by one of their own-- Oxymandias, a wealthy and pompous futurist who has determined that the only way to prevent global war is to unite mankind against an alien threat-- a threat he manufactures in a fake "invasion" on New York City. But rather than stop it, our heroes will allow this great tragedy-- stumped by the logic that this may be the only way. Throughout the story, in a series of flashbacks and companion texts we'll find out more about this strange world and what's caused it to take such a dark turn, and learn that, sadly, heroes aren't always what they seem to be.

5 sentences. not the best summary, but I punched it out in five minutes. It IS an overview of the story, though. And none of us are writing a more complex story than Watchmen. Does this give us everything? No. But it does give an editor an understanding of what you want to do, and where you want to go.

[iwarrior]

Wow that was good!

I understand now. I was just being impatient.

Jesus, I have a month! :) Why am I fussin'?

I guess I just don't like submissions rules. I just wish I could send out my stories without all the red tape, but oh well.

[The_Adventurer]

The characters I have in mind for this story, I KNOW what I want them to look like. That is one problem I may have with this.

I do however, have many other characters that I'm not sure how I want designed.

Comic book writers can totally create characters on their own. But when a writer comes up with an idea, and doesn't have a definite look in mind, that's the artist's domain imo. Plus, the artist could come up with things you never thought of for the character.

It's like writing a song. if someone comes up with a lick or a riff or something you didn't think of, and it stays in the song, that person gets a co-write do they not?

No one's forcing anyone to do this either. If you have cold feet about it, don't do it.

I'm gonna give it a shot. I have a feeling for some reason that it won't get used anyway, which is fine. It isn't the end of the world. I'm confident in my stories and my characters.

While I'm not in on the details, I'm sure this project won't be done in a vacuum. I'm sure Fresco is going to be willing to hear character design ideas of your own if your script is picked. Hell I'll be attaching basic character information (including appearance) to my 5 page script if I make it as one of the 10 semi-finalists (ha! fat chance of that. I'm such an amateur). And will insist on keeping tabs on character design the whole way to finished product. As much as I love Fresco's work, if my lead character look anything like his standard female form (not saying they all look the same, but if my submitted protagonists look anything like She-Dragon or WonderWoman something's very very wrong) it'll lose all the flavor I've put into the story.

[The_Adventurer]

Watchmen in one paragraph:

Watchmen takes place in a world where cold war paranoia runs rampant and super-heroes are merely reflections of real human failings and tragedies-- a world teetering on the brink of its own destruction. When government hero The Comedian is found dead, the mentally imbalanced vigilante Rorschach unites some of this world's former heroes to solve the mystery, and in turn uncovers a global conspiracy that will lead to the death of millions. Our heroes will uncover a plot spawned by one of their own-- Oxymandias, a wealthy and pompous futurist who has determined that the only way to prevent global war is to unite mankind against an alien threat-- a threat he manufactures in a fake "invasion" on New York City. But rather than stop it, our heroes will allow this great tragedy-- stumped by the logic that this may be the only way. Throughout the story, in a series of flashbacks and companion texts we'll find out more about this strange world and what's caused it to take such a dark turn, and learn that, sadly, heroes aren't always what they seem to be.

5 sentences. not the best summary, but I punched it out in five minutes. It IS an overview of the story, though. And none of us are writing a more complex story than Watchmen. Does this give us everything? No. But it does give an editor an understanding of what you want to do, and where you want to go.

That's a bit like what I did, more sentences though, but approximately the same word/letter count.

[nwspencer]

Yep, slamming stuff you have never read and know nothing about... that's the 'Rama for you.

Oh, and I cold-asked no less than three people the question: "If a writer has a story with original characters, and he (post-creation) works with an artist to transform it into a comic book, who owns the story and characters?" and all three of them said that unless the artist does design work on the project, the writer retains what he or she brought to the table before the artist got involved.

But hey, have fun signing away your characters. I'll make sure to post into the inevitable "Legal dispute over rights to contest submissions" thread with a hearty laugh and an I told you so.

With that, I'm out.

Yeah... we see that story all the time on

League of Extraordinary Gentleman, Invincible, Ex Machina, The Walking Dead, Powers, Punks, Y: The Last Man, Bomb Queen, Fearless, Proof, Hawaiian Dick, Drafted, 76... and ummm... every other comic Image publishes, half of Vertigo's titles, 90 percent of the small press, and everything Dark Horse does that is licensed work.

Hey, they're all crazy though. What a bunch of suckers.

But oooh... you asked three people? Wow. That changes everything.

Hey, enjoy yourself. Just stop hijacking the thread and impugning a publisher (and an artist's) integrity. Point made, point ridiculed. Move on.

[The_Adventurer]

Wow that was good!

I understand now. I was just being impatient.

Jesus, I have a month! :) Why am I fussin'?

I guess I just don't like submissions rules. I just wish I could send out my stories without all the red tape, but oh well.


It's not really red tape, any publisher looking for open submissions is going to want a story synopsis on the cover page, long before they even think of thumbing into the submitted scripts and character design parts. If it's got a bad synopsis on the cover there's a good chance it'll get circular filed without a second look. Publishers don't have time to read full scripts without a hook first.

[iwarrior]

I hear ya Adventurer.

You're right.

Btw, I'm open to seeing my characters appear as 'Hero Dude created by John Doe and Franchesco". The 50/50 thing is only fair too.

Eh, we'll see what happens.

[kitty_tc]

The characters I have in mind for this story, I KNOW what I want them to look like. That is one problem I may have with this.

I do however, have many other characters that I'm not sure how I want designed.

Comic book writers can totally create characters on their own. But when a writer comes up with an idea, and doesn't have a definite look in mind, that's the artist's domain imo. Plus, the artist could come up with things you never thought of for the character.

It's like writing a song. if someone comes up with a lick or a riff or something you didn't think of, and it stays in the song, that person gets a co-write do they not?

That example implies that the other person is involved with you when you're writing the song. If on the other hand you write a song, publish it through ASCAP or whatever, and then a performer comes along and performs it, his name doesn't get added to the songwriting credits no matter what little things he may add when performing it. He owns that version, that performance, but it doesn't change your original songwriting credit. You can get another performer to cover the song, or ten more, and they can all perform it a bit differently, but you still retain the songwriting credits and the control over the song.

Which leads me to wonder on a point which might imply a misunderstanding, which I'd love to hear some clarification on:

Is the 50% ownership clause on the STORY AND CHARACTERS that the writer comes up with, or is it in the FINISHED PRODUCT that the artist and writer produce in comic book form? The former is my point of dispute, not the latter.

In other words, the writer owns his or her words (and the ideas that are behind them) and the artist their pictures, and they both share the combination. This is only logical and I have no problem with this.

My entire argument is based on the premise that this contest demands that the original character concepts, story plots, etc be signed over to be shared with an artist who had no hand in their invention. It is this and only this that I have a problem with, and I'm clearly not alone in the objection.

If I'm in error as to the terms of the deal, I will retract my objections and tender an apology. If not, however, I stand by my point.

Can we get some clarification on this from someone in an official capacity, please?

[Fresco]

we all know how sexed up superheroines can be.

Agreed 100% about the sexy sexed-up look, iwarrior-- sure, the titillation aspect is a given. I feel there are sexy women who come in all shapes and sizes, regardless of what part of their anatomy they choose to reveal, or keep under wraps.

...but it's not entirely why I do the do, the way I do it. Anyone else?

[Michael Hawk]

I'm sending a submission a day just because I can.

[iwarrior]

I hear ya Fresco. I just don't want her to be a bimbo. :)

If it goes through, I'll just have to trust ya.

[AlexLothos]

Wow... nice response to this great opportunity.
Kris is gonna get swamped! Shadowline / Image kudos!

As the creator of Bomb Queen let me just chime in that I am 100% stoked to have even a scribble by Franchesco of my villain character.

As for all the writers looking for an easy ride? No... not with the Queen.
Let me drop the law. Know your enemy. The Queen HATES heroes in all forms.
This is not some boo-hoo poor sap turned villain, or someone blackmailed into the dark side with a sob story you can exploit. This is a pure villain. A mean warped b*tch! You don't ask why the Joker is insane, right? Don't look for sympathy here, either. You will be tested.

You got a heroine? Bring it. Bomb Queen is a hero killer.
Think you got the bones to take her down? I challenge you!

My advice... don't make a heroine just to fight the Queen. That's been done. She's figured out that old game. That's like a lame Kryptonite-based character to fight Superman. We've seen that and there are ways around it. Just pull out your best heroine with her own deal. And make it good! After all, while Bomb Queen may be your first enemy, she might not be your last.

That is... if your wussy, newbie, lame-joke, heroine doesn't die first.

Oooohhhh, talkin' so much smack! BQ is going DOWN!!!

;) :D :p

[Morbius]

Agreed 100% about the sexy sexed-up look, iwarrior-- sure, the titillation aspect is a given. I feel there are sexy women who come in all shapes and sizes, regardless of what part of their anatomy they choose to reveal, or keep under wraps.

...but it's not entirely why I do the do, the way I do it. Anyone else?

Personally, I just have a problem in general with what I'd call exploitative comic art. I find a lot of times T&A comes at the expense of story and character, and I hate that. Also, I think it tends to create a negative "fanboy" stereotype that actually serves to keep people away from comics. That's not to say I have a problem with characters looking sexy on both sides, though. But let's face it, Kitty Pryde looks good and she also looks real. Realism is what I like to see most in comics, just as a matter of personal preference.

And of course none of this is a referendum on your art, Fresco. I'm just arguing the idea. In fact, I'm ashamed to say, I've only today been exposed to your art through the link to your site in this thread. I love what I see and I would be very happy to have you bringing my ideas to life!

[Floodnado]

You know, another good thing I just now realized for the five finalists. Since they'll have their stuff posted on the site, and given that Newsarama gets quite a bit of traffic, there's always the chance of a potential artist taking a liking to one of the ideas and contacting the writer. It's not a particularly large possibility but still...

[nwspencer]

You know, another good thing I just now realized for the five finalists. Since they'll have their stuff posted on the site, and given that Newsarama gets quite a bit of traffic, there's always the chance of a potential artist taking a liking to one of the ideas and contacting the writer. It's not a particularly large possibility but still...

No, I'd actually say there's a GREAT possibility of that. One more good reason...

[Darkhawk]

No, I'd actually say there's a GREAT possibility of that. One more good reason...

Or even Shadowline or Image Comics being interested in them after getting an artist attached.

I just sent off a pitch.

[nwspencer]

That example implies that the other person is involved with you when you're writing the song. If on the other hand you write a song, publish it through ASCAP or whatever, and then a performer comes along and performs it, his name doesn't get added to the songwriting credits no matter what little things he may add when performing it. He owns that version, that performance, but it doesn't change your original songwriting credit. You can get another performer to cover the song, or ten more, and they can all perform it a bit differently, but you still retain the songwriting credits and the control over the song.

Which leads me to wonder on a point which might imply a misunderstanding, which I'd love to hear some clarification on:

Is the 50% ownership clause on the STORY AND CHARACTERS that the writer comes up with, or is it in the FINISHED PRODUCT that the artist and writer produce in comic book form? The former is my point of dispute, not the latter.

In other words, the writer owns his or her words (and the ideas that are behind them) and the artist their pictures, and they both share the combination. This is only logical and I have no problem with this.

My entire argument is based on the premise that this contest demands that the original character concepts, story plots, etc be signed over to be shared with an artist who had no hand in their invention. It is this and only this that I have a problem with, and I'm clearly not alone in the objection.

If I'm in error as to the terms of the deal, I will retract my objections and tender an apology. If not, however, I stand by my point.

Can we get some clarification on this from someone in an official capacity, please?

Sigh... what's the one day record for a person getting putting on IGNORE around here? I'm sure you're closing in on it.

You DID NOT CREATE A SELL-ABLE PRODUCT. It's not until that artist sits down and draws it up that anyone cares, or it has any financial viability. This isn't a novel-- this is a comic, a visual medium that requires a creative team of partners before anyone in a position to pay you gives a damn about it.

Just please... for God's sake... enough. No one agrees with you. No one. Have you noticed that? You're just embarrassing yourself at this point. Which again, I don't really care about. I just hate that you're accusing others of doing something wrong, when this is, FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME, the standard operating agreement in creator-owned comics today. If you don't like it, fine. You're probably never getting a comic made, but I for one could care less.

[kitty_tc]

Sigh... what's the one day record for a person getting putting on IGNORE around here? I'm sure you're closing in on it.

You DID NOT CREATE A SELL-ABLE PRODUCT. It's not until that artist sits down and draws it up that anyone cares, or it has any financial viability. This isn't a novel-- this is a comic, a visual medium that requires a creative team of partners before anyone in a position to pay you gives a damn about it.

Just please... for God's sake... enough. No one agrees with you. No one. Have you noticed that? You're just embarrassing yourself at this point. Which again, I don't really care about. I just hate that you're accusing others of doing something wrong, when this is, FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME, the standard operating agreement in creator-owned comics today. If you don't like it, fine. You're probably never getting a comic made, but I for one could care less.

You didn't answer the question, and unless you're attached to this project in an official capacity, I didn't ask you anyhow.

[JimmyKitty]

No, I don't think so.

Bomb Queen would get her tacky, trashy ass handed to her by my character. Any of my female heroines. She wouldn't kill her though. Just humiliate her, bring her to justice, and show the world that most women aren't exhibitionistic, amoral skanks. Killing is for killers. My ladies don't kill.

Bottom line. Bomb Queen makes female supercharacters look very bad. That needs to be fixed. *knuckles crack* Feminism 'aint dead yet.

Damn skippy! I agree. Feminism is never dead.
Glad to see you fighting.
But Bomb Queen (in her own book) makes everything look bad (that's the joke). She's trashy for a reason. She is a villain set on eleven, after all.

But remember, folks aren't writing her book. So the Queen shouldn't sway people left, or right. The Queen has crossed over in other Image titles before. She wasn't "trashy" in their books because it was their story. The same will apply for this contest. In short: nobody needs to study Bomb Queen to make their character. In other titles the Queen is an easy villain because she simply hates heroes. No deep plot needed. No lame contrivances.

But as noted, this will be the winner's book, not mine. They can work that out after winning.

As for humiliating the Queen? Hard to do when she'd already so extroverted. Hah!

[JimmyKitty]

Oooohhhh, talkin' so much smack! BQ is going DOWN!!!

;) :D :p
Haha! See, that's what all the fun is about. Talking smack is where it's at!

[Fresco]

I find a lot of times T&A comes at the expense of story and character, and I hate that:::

:::I've only today been exposed to your art through the link to your site in this thread. I love what I see and I would be very happy to have you bringing my ideas to life!

Agreed, but to each their own: Hoping I didn't imply I want to draw an empty-headed jiggly-fest (not that there is anything wrong with that). To some it's an innocent hemline that goes below the knee... to others: it's amish "porn". A plunging neckline on any size bosom, to some is risqué-- while others lose interest unless the breasts are bare. We can't be everything to everybody.


This will be about what the collaborators want to a large extent, with plenty of latitude. But that's not all there is. When all is said and done, it's what the people want and vote for... that will dictate the end results here. I am all kinds of excited at seeing the end results of this experiment.


Thank you for visiting my website, and appreciating the compliment on my artwork, Morbius.
I look forward to the possibility of collaborating with you as well.

[nwspencer]

Agreed 100% about the sexy sexed-up look, iwarrior-- sure, the titillation aspect is a given. I feel there are sexy women who come in all shapes and sizes, regardless of what part of their anatomy they choose to reveal, or keep under wraps.

...but it's not entirely why I do the do, the way I do it. Anyone else?

I'm really curious about this.

Also, for us wannabes, could you maybe talk a little about what you DO like to draw? I've gotten a feel from your web site and work, but it never hurts to know things like what you're into drawing-- beautiful, voluptious women seem to be high on the list... anything else? Aliens? Dinosaurs? Guns? Vampires?

That Black Cat drawing is suh-weeet, by the by.

[Morbius]

[QUOTE=JimmyKitty]In short: nobody needs to study Bomb Queen to make their character. In other titles the Queen is an easy villain because she simply hates heroes. No deep plot needed. No lame contrivances.
QUOTE]

I haven't said this yet: thanks Jimmy! I wanted to make this story about my heroine's first real test, and Bomb Queen is a perfect villain to put in there for it. Now I don't have to spend extra time coming up with another whole character that's really just there to antagonize for three issues, not be an integral part of the main character. Not to mention that pretty much boosts sales on the winner's book automatically, which is better for everyone. Thanks for making things that much easier for us, it's very generous of you!

[iwarrior]

Damn skippy! I agree. Feminism is never dead.
Glad to see you fighting.
But Bomb Queen (in her own book) makes everything look bad (that's the joke). She's trashy for a reason. She is a villain set on eleven, after all.

But remember, folks aren't writing her book. So the Queen shouldn't sway people left, or right. The Queen has crossed over in other Image titles before. She wasn't "trashy" in their books because it was their story. The same will apply for this contest. In short: nobody needs to study Bomb Queen to make their character. In other titles the Queen is an easy villain because she simply hates heroes. No deep plot needed. No lame contrivances.

But as noted, this will be the winner's book, not mine. They can work that out after winning.

As for humiliating the Queen? Hard to do when she'd already so extroverted. Hah!

Ok, I'll confess. I've never read BQ. I've just seen the solicitations here and there over the years.

She won't be in my story, I was just talkin' smack. Although it gave me an ideear.

[JimmyKitty]

Morbius no problem...

On a side note (sorry to derail the thread) but I see you pimpin' Multiplex in your signature. I just want to say HELL YES to that plug. Great webcomic! I saw it featured here on Newsarama and I went and read the entire archive. Brilliant stuff! I'm following it now.

As for the presentation of women in comics - I agree with all sides here. Bomb Queen is trashy, but that's her character. I have "normal" styled folks in the series, too (Blacklight, Editor Girl, Rebound, Nyx, no-name government agent and soon... Kino-chan). The Queen is purposely presented off the 'edge' and often she's best understood when juxtaposed against normal folks. In short: only Bomb Queen, and her citizens, are stupid-crazy-looking in Bomb Queen. Some folks think *every* person in the series is drawn that way.

Not. True.

Edit:
iwarrior, It's all good. It was fun talking smack.

[Fresco]

could you maybe talk a little about what you DO like to draw? That Black Cat drawing is suh-weeet, by the by.
Thanks, that was fun pic... I was all kinds of excited when Marvel asked me for my take on Black Cat. They liked it and pimped it for me, but unfortunately it didn't go anywhere. I took comfort that the editor who asked for it, liked it-- so that was good enough for me... (although drawing black cat for Marvel would have been all kinds of --wow!!!)

but I digress...
To answer your question, I love to draw anything and everything. Reason why there is so much babe stuff on there, is that is all that folks ask me to draw-- and an artist has to eat and pay rent, you know?

Not that I'm complaining, I love to draw babes... :D
...could a Jiggly-Fest--A-Rama in the making be in my future, only time will tell!

[SAIDESTROYER]

I just sent out that e-mail:cool:

I hope they like it :)

Wish me all the best!!!
--Said

[Morbius]

Morbius no problem...

On a side note (sorry to derail the thread) but I see you pimpin' Multiplex in your signature. I just want to say HELL YES to that plug. Great webcomic! I saw it featured here on Newsarama and I went and read the entire archive. Brilliant stuff! I'm following it now.

Multiplex is fantastic, though I might be biased being a former movie theater usher. And ya know, that INTERNAL AFFAIRS above it got to be pretty awesome, too ;)

[Varrus]

There is always one to shi<blah>t all over a good idea. Amazing. :rolleyes:

[Kris Simon]

Boy, I leave for a few hours and all hell breaks loose.

Here's the deal, everyone. This has been said several times already, but I will repeat it since I am a person with authority within this contest. Hooray for me. Comics are a visual medium. They are not comics without the art, they are prose. That said, an artist is not more important than the writer, or vice versa. It is a symbiotic relationship. One cannot exist without the other. Therefore, it's 50/50. You take the art away from the writing, it's no longer a comic. You take the writing away, and it's no longer a comic. So if the artist owns the pictures, and the writer owns the words, then essentially you each own 50% of absolutely nothing. Because say it with me now...you can't have one without the other.

If you only have ONE idea that you cannot bear to part with, that you have been honing for years, that sits in it's own universe and has been getting tweaked up since you were 12...then don't submit it. Find your own artist, make your own deal, and submit it on your own, NOT through this contest. It really is that easy. If you have a project that has already been worked on with another artist, it's not eligible. We're not trying to sneak anything past anyone, as far as I could tell, the entire announcement was pretty crystal clear.

And as for who is out of the running and who isn't...I am barely looking at names at this point. We received in over a hundred entries so far...I don't have time to play games. My goal is to locate the 10 best story synopses and hopefully release a book that everyone wants to read. That's my goal. Your own personal conflicts...not my problem. No offense.

[SAIDESTROYER]

Multiplex is fantastic, though I might be biased being a former movie theater usher. And ya know, that INTERNAL AFFAIRS above it got to be pretty awesome, too ;)
Multiplex is awesome!!!! man, i havent stoped laughin!!!!!!!!!!

[Dalarsco2]

You had me until the "artist gets half ownership" bit. Really, are you kidding me?

I wouldn't be writer if I did not have a clear visual design for my characters before they're ever put to script, which can be described in any level of detail necessary to provide a model from which the artist should work, and can even provide pre-commissioned sketches and art pieces for visual reference. In fact, I do not want an artist doing any visual design work at all, I want them to draw the characters I created the way I tell them they should look, period.

Do you realize how serious a thing giving up half of IP rights really is? It's scarcely better than a work for hire arrangement, which is the equivalent of giving away your characters. Who is this Francesco person to me? I'm sure he's nice and professional, but if I give him half-rights to my characters, it places he and I in a forced business relationship, forever. Anytime after this if and when I want to use my own characters, I have to go through him, or buy back half of what I created before I ever even met him? Unacceptable to me, and should be to anyone who's serious about doing something with their intellectual property on a long-term basis.

Essentially, you're asking people to sign onto a shared bank account with someone they've never even met. It's a nigh-insane thing to ask someone to do.

On the other hand if writers do need visual design services, and artistic creative input, the artist should be given credit and ownership for what he put in. No artist should be asked to design a character and not get what they designed. It should be an option, though, and not a requirement.

I hope anyone here seriously thinking of participating in this thinks long and hard about signing away half of their intellectual property rights, permanently. It may seem like no big deal now, but it's the kind of thing that causes nothing but legal nightmares down the road. Think about the Superboy fiasco. Does anyone here want to be involved in something like that over something you created?

No deal, Ms Simon. No offense.
Whatever, one less person to compete with for the prize. Hell, I want to give most of my characters to Marvel anyway. The only reason I would be apprehensive at all about sharing the rights is because it would be nice to introduce the character into the MU someday, since it's that universe that I love and where most of what I think are my best characters need to live in anyway. This contest is an easy way into the industry. If you aren't willing to give away half a character then that's your loss.

[Linkara]

Wow... nice response to this great opportunity.
Kris is gonna get swamped! Shadowline / Image kudos!

As the creator of Bomb Queen let me just chime in that I am 100% stoked to have even a scribble by Franchesco of my villain character.

As for all the writers looking for an easy ride? No... not with the Queen.
Let me drop the law. Know your enemy. The Queen HATES heroes in all forms.
This is not some boo-hoo poor sap turned villain, or someone blackmailed into the dark side with a sob story you can exploit. This is a pure villain. A mean warped b*tch! You don't ask why the Joker is insane, right? Don't look for sympathy here, either. You will be tested.

You got a heroine? Bring it. Bomb Queen is a hero killer.
Think you got the bones to take her down? I challenge you!

My advice... don't make a heroine just to fight the Queen. That's been done. She's figured out that old game. That's like a lame Kryptonite-based character to fight Superman. We've seen that and there are ways around it. Just pull out your best heroine with her own deal. And make it good! After all, while Bomb Queen may be your first enemy, she might not be your last.

That is... if your wussy, newbie, lame-joke, heroine doesn't die first.

Jimmy, you have inspired me to ensure that my first choice for what I'd like to submit (and hopefully win with) for this opportunity gets to fight Bomb Queen. ^_~ And maybe she'll win or maybe Bomb Queen will win, but man-oh-man do I hope I win if only to fight a hero killer.

May the best woman win. :D (Which she will, trust me. >=D)

[neowrites]

I do believe this to be a great opportunity and I applaud someone, anyone, finally giving a shot to writers.

I think the contest runners are a bit nuts for letting everyone enter multiple times, but, hey, nuts works sometimes, eh? :)

I want to address kitty's concerns just a moment. I believe she (?) might be over-stating them to the point of paranoia, but I actually do see her main point. In a perfect world, I would prefer a say in who I'm sharing rights with, too. If the situation were reversed---artists submitting characters and story ideas and, say, Peter David were on board to write the miniseries with half-creator rights . . . it's the same thing. I can see how either creator might feel like s/he is being forced to collaborate and give half of a character away to someone who wasn't there at the initial stage of creation. I don't think Bernie Wrightson was there when Len Wein wrote that first Swamp Thing script, either, and I doubt Len even had much say in who drew that first story (I have no idea, though). It's easy enough to see why Len might feel it was his creation and Bernie just happened to be the artist assigned to draw it---why should Bernie get equal creation credit? Similarly, an artist that comes up with the back story and visual design for a character might feel like whoever writes the final script is just the person hired to write the words---why should the writer get equal credit? (I can't think of an example for this, but surely it's happened somewhere in the history of comics.)

I do wonder what happens after the miniseries is published. If it's successful, what happens then? Are the creators going to be obligated to do another mini or an ongoing series? What if Franchesco is not available to draw the second mini, does he still share in the profits of the second mini and someone is brought in for work-for-hire art? And how much say does Franchesco have in the direction of the character? And if the writer isn't available for a second mini, will the character go on without the writer? I'm guessing not. I'm guessing that no second mini will happen without the agreement of both writer and artist, as co-creators and owners of the character. But I don't know this.

I understand this is not unusual for the way comics are created. I understand that not every new concept is brought in by a writer/artist team who know each other, and there are negotiations between strangers all the time. I'm not even saying this arrangement is unfair. I will say that kitty's questions aren't completely off-base. She's admitted to having had a bad go at life recently and perhaps she's expressing herself with less nuance than she might otherwise, but I do think the basic concern is one worth pondering as some are rushing to send a submission a day.

Everyone has to decide for his/herself if these are circumstances they're willing to work under. And trust that, at this late date, these sorts of things already have precedents set that seem to keep most creators happy.

These questions are mysteries I'm willing to live with and see what happens should I enter (another question up in the air) and win (a very huge improbability, given the number of submissions sent in the first few hours of the competition).

Personally, I've been building a resume of prose fiction for some time (nothing terribly impressive yet, but I'm published and continue to get published) and my life will not begin or end with this contest. If I write a 3-issue comics miniseries with Franchesco drawing, well, worse things could definitely happen. But it won't be my first or my last writing to see the light of day, just one piece of a body of work.

I'd recommend people see this is as great opportunity---but not the only one you'll ever have. Hold tight to the concepts you can't part with (or can't see being illustrated by Franchesco), but maybe this is the stepping stone to eventually being able to choose your collaborators. See this as only a piece of a career, not the only chance you'll ever have.

Thank you, Kris and Image, for this opportunity.

-Neil

[Salieri]

Question: I rushed ahead and sent the following entry before I could think to collaborate with another writer. Firstly, is the paragraph below an okay entry? Secondly, could I change my mind and choose to work with someone else instead?

My Entry:

ELECTRIC MARY

They tell you about Jack Frost and the Tooth Fairy when you're a kid, and you believe them. When you grow up, it's a different story. Truth is, you know nothing. At the Beginning of the story, these non-religious 'fictions' are disappearing. Monsters no longer hide in cupboards. The gargoyles in Notre Dame stop spitting out water. Who's doing this? What sinister trail are they leaving? Only one person could tell you: Electric Mary. She's the girl who causes powercuts, the lady who bites you when you feel a static shock. She's the folklore figure that everyone forgot...so how can she save the others from annihilation, just in time for Christmas?

[kitty_tc]

I do believe this to be a great opportunity and I applaud someone, anyone, finally giving a shot to writers.

I think the contest runners are a bit nuts for letting everyone enter multiple times, but, hey, nuts works sometimes, eh? :)

I want to address kitty's concerns just a moment. I believe she (?) might be over-stating them to the point of paranoia, but I actually do see her main point. In a perfect world, I would prefer a say in who I'm sharing rights with, too. If the situation were reversed---artists submitting characters and story ideas and, say, Peter David were on board to write the miniseries with half-creator rights . . . it's the same thing. I can see how either creator might feel like s/he is being forced to collaborate and give half of a character away to someone who wasn't there at the initial stage of creation. I don't think Bernie Wrightson was there when Len Wein wrote that first Swamp Thing script, either, and I doubt Len even had much say in who drew that first story (I have no idea, though). It's easy enough to see why Len might feel it was his creation and Bernie just happened to be the artist assigned to draw it---why should Bernie get equal creation credit? Similarly, an artist that comes up with the back story and visual design for a character might feel like whoever writes the final script is just the person hired to write the words---why should the writer get equal credit? (I can't think of an example for this, but surely it's happened somewhere in the history of comics.)

I do wonder what happens after the miniseries is published. If it's successful, what happens then? Are the creators going to be obligated to do another mini or an ongoing series? What if Franchesco is not available to draw the second mini, does he still share in the profits of the second mini and someone is brought in for work-for-hire art? And how much say does Franchesco have in the direction of the character? And if the writer isn't available for a second mini, will the character go on without the writer? I'm guessing not. I'm guessing that no second mini will happen without the agreement of both writer and artist, as co-creators and owners of the character. But I don't know this.

I understand this is not unusual for the way comics are created. I understand that not every new concept is brought in by a writer/artist team who know each other, and there are negotiations between strangers all the time. I'm not even saying this arrangement is unfair. I will say that kitty's questions aren't completely off-base. She's admitted to having had a bad go at life recently and perhaps she's expressing herself with less nuance than she might otherwise, but I do think the basic concern is one worth pondering as some are rushing to send a submission a day.

Everyone has to decide for his/herself if these are circumstances they're willing to work under. And trust that, at this late date, these sorts of things already have precedents set that seem to keep most creators happy.

These questions are mysteries I'm willing to live with and see what happens should I enter (another question up in the air) and win (a very huge improbability, given the number of submissions sent in the first few hours of the competition).

Personally, I've been building a resume of prose fiction for some time (nothing terribly impressive yet, but I'm published and continue to get published) and my life will not begin or end with this contest. If I write a 3-issue comics miniseries with Franchesco drawing, well, worse things could definitely happen. But it won't be my first or my last writing to see the light of day, just one piece of a body of work.

I'd recommend people see this is as great opportunity---but not the only one you'll ever have. Hold tight to the concepts you can't part with (or can't see being illustrated by Franchesco), but maybe this is the stepping stone to eventually being able to choose your collaborators. See this as only a piece of a career, not the only chance you'll ever have.

Thank you, Kris and Image, for this opportunity.

-Neil

Thank you very much for listening to what I had to say and speaking honestly about it, rather than giving a knee-jerk reaction. It's nice to know someone out there cares. No sarcasm, I mean that. And I especially appreciate you restating my point in a way more diplomatic and eloquent than I did in my frazzled state of earlier in the day, so that perhaps others might also understand where I was coming from.

Honestly, it's appreciated. Thank you. :)

[Dalarsco2]

I'm guessing not. I'm guessing that no second mini will happen without the agreement of both writer and artist, as co-creators and owners of the character. But I don't know this.

Actually, I think that characters deserve to outlive the writer. I'd gladly allow another writer to take a character I created once I'm done with him or her. So far, I've sent four characters. Two are ones I have future ideas for, so if one of those was to win I'd hope Franchesco would be on board for the future, or else be willing to let someone else take over the art duties. But the other two are very open ended. All I have for them are the origins and a fight with Bomb Queen. If someone else gets some inspiration after reading the story and thinks they have an idea to continue the character then I'd welcome the chance for the character to take on a life of her own. Sometimes a one-off character just needs to inspire someone to become great. It was Len Wein who created Wolverine, but Claremont who made him famous. I'm not sure who created Madrox, but it wasn't until Peter David used the character that he become incredibly cool. It's harder to do with a creator owned character, but not impossible for a creator who understands that characters become bigger than their creators.

[kitty_tc]

Boy, I leave for a few hours and all hell breaks loose.

Here's the deal, everyone. This has been said several times already, but I will repeat it since I am a person with authority within this contest. Hooray for me. Comics are a visual medium. They are not comics without the art, they are prose. That said, an artist is not more important than the writer, or vice versa. It is a symbiotic relationship. One cannot exist without the other. Therefore, it's 50/50. You take the art away from the writing, it's no longer a comic. You take the writing away, and it's no longer a comic. So if the artist owns the pictures, and the writer owns the words, then essentially you each own 50% of absolutely nothing. Because say it with me now...you can't have one without the other.


Umm, you're a professional in the industry and you don't realize that an intellectual property is far more encompassing than a single comic book? Wow, I'm simply stunned. A story and a character transcend their medium, it's inconceivable you should not know this.

Take for example Star Wars. It began as a story outline and became films, then comics, then novels, toys, RPG's, video games, cartoons, TV shows, you name it. The intellectual property that is Star Wars is not simply the film, it transcends the medium it was originally presented in and exists outside of it. You're basically saying that if Star Wars the film had a separate producer/director than Lucas, that said individual should own half of the Star Wars intellectual property, and have a say in everything done in the entire SW universe. Film is a visual medium and just one guy can't make a movie, after all! Hell, while we're at it, let's not stop at the producer/director. Let's include the SFX guys, the actors and actresses, all the way down to the Craft Services department and the extras in the Stormtrooper suits. Creator credit for everybody, whether they made up any part of it or not!

While we're at it, on the comic, why stop at the artist? Inkers and colorists do work on comics too, you know. And letterers, can't forget those, all those fancy words the writer writes wouldn't get on the page without a letterer, let's give that guy some authorship credit! And you know, a comic would never get made without the hardworking folks in the print shops, let's give them a byline too! I mean, as long as we're stretching the definition of intellectual property to who's worked on it instead of simply who made it up, we might as well take it to it's illogical conclusion.

Or, we can do things the sane way and say the guy who made the whole bloody thing up in the first place is the one who gets creator credit and creative control. I think I'll stick with that one.

[TheToileteer]

Another question: Almost as soon as the announcement was up, I sent in a paragraph-long concept proposal. Later, as the discussion built up, it became clear that what is actually being sought is not so much a concept proposal, but a (very abbreviated) three-issue plot synopsis. Should I resubmit?

[Fresco]

If I write a 3-issue comics miniseries with Franchesco drawing, well, worse things could definitely happen. But it won't be my first or my last writing to see the light of day, just one piece of a body of work.

I'd recommend people see this is as great opportunity---but not the only one you'll ever have. Hold tight to the concepts you can't part with (or can't see being illustrated by Franchesco), but maybe this is the stepping stone to eventually being able to choose your collaborators. See this as only a piece of a career, not the only chance you'll ever have.
"Worse things could happen than being paired up with me?"
Concern about long term while dismissing potential partners from the very beginning, is a new one on me.
To anyone who doesn't see themselves collaborating with the artist Shadowline selected on this...
Sorry, but this contest is not for you.

To clarify: No one is putting a gun to anyone's head to work with me on this. People can totally choose their collaborators today... not someday, but this very minute. Look around, there are plenty of artists out there. See if they are willing to do it all with zero financial commitment from you. Do you support yourself, and expect a paycheck every week-- can you go for months without one? Best of luck with that, friends.

It is unlikely-- but we could do everything right, and still not make a single dime. No one has the magic formula-- if they did, all the books would be #1 on the sales chart. It may be 50/50 but make no mistake on who is doing all the heavy lifting here. I'm taking a leap of faith off the high-dive, and it could be a refreshing swimming pool under me, or jagged rocks. I will have spent hundreds of hours with no assurance of any reasonable return; while turning down guaranteed work-for-hire assignments. Instead of working on creator-owned stuff that's 100% mine-- I am doing this out of respect for Jim Valentino, I believe in Image, and it feels like all kinds of fun!

If this is fun for you too, then let's get the party started! :)

[JimmyKitty]

If this is fun for you too, then let's get the party started! :)

Fresco.... it's 2 AM in the goddamn morning! (Pacific time). Let it go, bro. Why are you still up? I mean shouldn't you be sleeping and.... and...

Oh... I'm posting too?

Well, at least I'm working on comics!

[Dhaise]

Nice to see a company attempt a writer search for once!
Looking forward to seeing what comes of it.

[The_Adventurer]

It is unlikely-- but we could do everything right, and still not make a single dime. No one has the magic formula-- if they did, all the books would be #1 on the sales chart. It may be 50/50 but make no mistake on who is doing all the heavy lifting here. I'm taking a leap of faith off the high-dive, and it could be a refreshing swimming pool under me, or jagged rocks. I will have spent hundreds of hours with no assurance of any reasonable return; while turning down guaranteed work-for-hire assignments. Instead of working on creator-owned stuff that's 100% mine-- I am doing this out of respect for Jim Valentino, I believe in Image, and it feels like all kinds of fun!

Oh you're doing this for free (well you'll get your half of the profits off the back end)? interesting. I figured Shadowline would pay you a rate to be part of the contest as incentive.

[nwspencer]

Umm, you're a professional in the industry and you don't realize that an intellectual property is far more encompassing than a single comic book? Wow, I'm simply stunned. A story and a character transcend their medium, it's inconceivable you should not know this..

What's inconceivable is this surreal obsession you have with, what is again, the standard operating procedure when it comes to making comic books.

If you want to make a COMIC BOOK, these are the rules you'll have to live by. Don't like it? To be blunt, nobody cares. You won't be missed. No one is asking you to enter this contest.

You have a terrible attitude, and your behavior here is borderline psychotic. I've been around this site long enough to know it's not the first time you've behaved this way. Your interpersonal skills are, even by internet standards, really lacking. And constantly insulting an editor and an artist at a major comics company for offering a writer a shot like this-- its just, to be blunt, stupid.

If you don't like the rules, or the system under which creator-owned books are made, that's fine. Don't enter. But stop hijacking this discussion when you've already more than said your peace. It's pathetic.

If you want to create a COMIC BOOK, this is the deal most every artist will want, or should want. The reasons are pretty simple:

Without an artist, it's not a comic book. So, in order to make a comic book, you have to have an artist. Your film analogy is horribly flawed, and only demonstrates that you know very little about how THAT medium operates. Bottom line-- you didn't come up with anything sellable if you came up with an idea for a comic. You need an artist to translate those ideas into reality. This isn't, by any means, out of the ordinary. Again, if I come up with an idea for a web site, I have to go get a partner who understands tech stuff. A million and one business arrangement operate under these principles.

It doesn't sound like comics are the medium for you. And again-- no one really cares. You're making a fool out of yourself here, throwing these tantrums and making weird accusations and insults. I, and most everyone else, find your notions of who creates what pretty laughable, but who cares? Just move the f*ck on and try to preserve a little dignity for yourself.

[Fresco]

Well, at least I'm working on comics!
Woo-hoo! me too... I love the smell of graphite in the morning.

LOL it's 4:00am here in the Midwest, Jimmy...
and who can snooze when there is comic art to be drawn?
Sleep is for wussies. :D

Yaarrgghhh!!!!!!

[Fresco]

I figured Shadowline would pay you a rate to be part of the contest as incentive. There was some kinda mention of delicious Homerun Pies to sweeten the deal... (no, not really) but who needs money--
waitamminute, I do. :D

Where is that Brinks truck backing up to my front door when I need one?

[nwspencer]

I do believe this to be a great opportunity and I applaud someone, anyone, finally giving a shot to writers.

I think the contest runners are a bit nuts for letting everyone enter multiple times, but, hey, nuts works sometimes, eh? :)

I want to address kitty's concerns just a moment. I believe she (?) might be over-stating them to the point of paranoia, but I actually do see her main point. In a perfect world, I would prefer a say in who I'm sharing rights with, too. If the situation were reversed---artists submitting characters and story ideas and, say, Peter David were on board to write the miniseries with half-creator rights . . . it's the same thing. I can see how either creator might feel like s/he is being forced to collaborate and give half of a character away to someone who wasn't there at the initial stage of creation. I don't think Bernie Wrightson was there when Len Wein wrote that first Swamp Thing script, either, and I doubt Len even had much say in who drew that first story (I have no idea, though). It's easy enough to see why Len might feel it was his creation and Bernie just happened to be the artist assigned to draw it---why should Bernie get equal creation credit? Similarly, an artist that comes up with the back story and visual design for a character might feel like whoever writes the final script is just the person hired to write the words---why should the writer get equal credit? (I can't think of an example for this, but surely it's happened somewhere in the history of comics.)

I do wonder what happens after the miniseries is published. If it's successful, what happens then? Are the creators going to be obligated to do another mini or an ongoing series? What if Franchesco is not available to draw the second mini, does he still share in the profits of the second mini and someone is brought in for work-for-hire art? And how much say does Franchesco have in the direction of the character? And if the writer isn't available for a second mini, will the character go on without the writer? I'm guessing not. I'm guessing that no second mini will happen without the agreement of both writer and artist, as co-creators and owners of the character. But I don't know this.

I understand this is not unusual for the way comics are created. I understand that not every new concept is brought in by a writer/artist team who know each other, and there are negotiations between strangers all the time. I'm not even saying this arrangement is unfair. I will say that kitty's questions aren't completely off-base. She's admitted to having had a bad go at life recently and perhaps she's expressing herself with less nuance than she might otherwise, but I do think the basic concern is one worth pondering as some are rushing to send a submission a day.

Everyone has to decide for his/herself if these are circumstances they're willing to work under. And trust that, at this late date, these sorts of things already have precedents set that seem to keep most creators happy.

These questions are mysteries I'm willing to live with and see what happens should I enter (another question up in the air) and win (a very huge improbability, given the number of submissions sent in the first few hours of the competition).

Personally, I've been building a resume of prose fiction for some time (nothing terribly impressive yet, but I'm published and continue to get published) and my life will not begin or end with this contest. If I write a 3-issue comics miniseries with Franchesco drawing, well, worse things could definitely happen. But it won't be my first or my last writing to see the light of day, just one piece of a body of work.

I'd recommend people see this is as great opportunity---but not the only one you'll ever have. Hold tight to the concepts you can't part with (or can't see being illustrated by Franchesco), but maybe this is the stepping stone to eventually being able to choose your collaborators. See this as only a piece of a career, not the only chance you'll ever have.

Thank you, Kris and Image, for this opportunity.

-Neil

This is an example of how to state concerns in a way that's respectful and courteous.

Now, if I could...

As somebody who puts a lot of comic pitches together, I have to seek out artists. You're generally looking for a few things-- high quality work, dependability, and published work under their belt. Franchesco's got all three down pat.

The difference between prose writing and comic writing is one's got pictures. This makes it, 90 percent of the time, a collaborative medium.

As for your questions, you DO know the answer, actually. Nothing will ever happen to those characters (movie options, future comics, whatever) without your approval. Period. You own half the rights-- that's veto power in any instance. But so does Franchesco. Meaning YOU can't write another series, or sell the movie rights, without his okay. He gets EQUAL treatment, not more or less than.

I think for a lot of people, this might be confusing, until they write a comic script and then have an artist draw it. Once you do that-- whoa. You realize very quickly WHY an artist is an equal partner-- how much they add to things. Panels, layouts, body language, etc-- an artist is someone who specializes in visuals-- they bring something totally different to the table than what a writer does.

A good COMICS writer understands that a book is a collaboration. You don't have the control you have with a novel. That's not a bad thing-- it can be a GREAT thing, actually.

I'd recommend visiting forums like Digital Webbing or Penciljack-- these are places full of working pros and serious amateurs. They're invaluable resources for aspiring creators. You can go CHOOSE your OWN collaborators right now-- I've done several times. You go find an artist, pitch them on a book, and then you submit it. No rocket science involved. You don't need to win this contest to do that.

What you get with this contest though, is a guaranteed publication and a chance to work with a pro level artist.

[nwspencer]

Take for example Star Wars. It began as a story outline and became films, then comics, then novels, toys, RPG's, video games, cartoons, TV shows, you name it. The intellectual property that is Star Wars is not simply the film, it transcends the medium it was originally presented in and exists outside of it. You're basically saying that if Star Wars the film had a separate producer/director than Lucas, that said individual should own half of the Star Wars intellectual property, and have a say in everything done in the entire SW universe. Film is a visual medium and just one guy can't make a movie, after all! Hell, while we're at it, let's not stop at the producer/director. Let's include the SFX guys, the actors and actresses, all the way down to the Craft Services department and the extras in the Stormtrooper suits. Creator credit for everybody, whether they made up any part of it or not!

I couldn't leave it alone...

This film analogy sucks.

Here's the problem: you're equating writing a comic script with making a movie. Big jump there.

Writing a comic script is much, much, much more like WRITING A SCREENPLAY.

After all, you didn't FILM anything. You don't have the ability or the talent. Your George Lucas analogy is painfully flawed, because he's the film equivalent of a writer/artist who self publishes.

Take your screenplay out to Hollywood, and pitch it thusly: I want to maintain all rights to this story and it's characters, even though someone else is going to fund it, film it, star in it, distribute it, and promote it. Yeah... good luck with that one.

Pure screenwriters though, sell ALL the rights they have in most cases. It's a much worse arrangement in that sense. If I have a script for a GIANT ROBOT vs. SEXY NINJA movie, but no talent/funding to actually MAKE the movie, guess what I do-- I sell the rights. Sure, I'll get royalties and residuals, but I won't have any say over who does the GIANT ROBOT t-shirts or the SEXY NINJA posters,or even (gasp!) comic adaptations. This despite the fact that I came up with the characters, their story, the ending, etc. Nobody gives a ____, because when I had it, it was just a script, and scripts alone don't make any money.

If we're trying to do a film comparison, it would roughly work thusly: comic writer= screenwriter/producer, comic artist=director/star/producer, publisher=studio. Because as to what the artist MADE UP, well, they made up the ACTUAL, TANGIBLE PRODUCT THAT COULD BE SOLD.

Again, if you just have a SCRIPT, and you go out to Hollywood with it, there is no scenario under which you will keep the rights to that IP and actually have a movie made. Funny enough, this is something that actually has encouraged many FILM writers to make comics FIRST... then studios purchase much less stringent options, leaving rights to other things up in the air in some instances.

Novelists and playwrights are the only writers who get to maintain everything, because there's no collaboration needed to bring the product to full fruition.

I can't believe you don't understand that.

[JohnLynch]

Oh you're doing this for free (well you'll get your half of the profits off the back end)? interesting. I figured Shadowline would pay you a rate to be part of the contest as incentive.Indeed. I'm glad I've bothered reading this thread as Franchesco's attitude is nothing short of amazing.

[NielsVanEekelen]

In short: nobody needs to study Bomb Queen to make their character. In other titles the Queen is an easy villain because she simply hates heroes. No deep plot needed. No lame contrivances.
I think I have a reason why Bomb Queen would hate my superheroine even more than the average superhero--and vice versa, so the Queen is going dooooooown!:cool:

The thing is, I can boil my concepts down to two or even one sentence. That's easy. Paraphrasing a storyarc, keeping the important details in, that's a bit challenging.


EDIT: Wait... did they want a concept pitch or a story arc pitch? The first bullet in the first post made it sound like they wanted the story plotted out fully.
Don't think of it as the full plot with all its twists, but just as the general arc of the story--where are you going with it all? Do you have a satisfying conclusion that makes the story a compelling whole?

Watchmen in one paragraph:

Watchmen takes place in a world where cold war paranoia runs rampant and super-heroes are merely reflections of real human failings and tragedies-- a world teetering on the brink of its own destruction. When government hero The Comedian is found dead, the mentally imbalanced vigilante Rorschach unites some of this world's former heroes to solve the mystery, and in turn uncovers a global conspiracy that will lead to the death of millions. Our heroes will uncover a plot spawned by one of their own-- Oxymandias, a wealthy and pompous futurist who has determined that the only way to prevent global war is to unite mankind against an alien threat-- a threat he manufactures in a fake "invasion" on New York City. But rather than stop it, our heroes will allow this great tragedy-- stumped by the logic that this may be the only way. Throughout the story, in a series of flashbacks and companion texts we'll find out more about this strange world and what's caused it to take such a dark turn, and learn that, sadly, heroes aren't always what they seem to be.

5 sentences. not the best summary, but I punched it out in five minutes. It IS an overview of the story, though. And none of us are writing a more complex story than Watchmen. Does this give us everything? No. But it does give an editor an understanding of what you want to do, and where you want to go.
See, that one I like... because it's just a few words longer than my entry. ;)

I was busy making the concept sound intriguing and then realized I'd better talk about plot beyond the set-up.

That example implies that the other person is involved with you when you're writing the song. If on the other hand you write a song, publish it through ASCAP or whatever, and then a performer comes along and performs it, his name doesn't get added to the songwriting credits no matter what little things he may add when performing it.
If you mean that you write lyrics and then and artists comes along and puts them to music and performs them then yes, it's a lot like that.

Projects that are so utterly finished as you claim yours to be are clearly not the target of this contest.

[Weiser_Cain]

Excuse me where are all these mythical industry art contests?

[Dominic]

I've been involved in a few attempts at self publishing in the past and had trouble finding an artist that I could afford and that would actually finish drawing the darn book. Consequently none of my work has yet been published. It seems to me that it might be better to own 50% of a book that's been published than to own 100% of one that hasn't.

And now a few words about ART. I'm talking about Art with a capital "A," that is, all forms of artistic expression not just the drawing half of a comic book. Of course one could spend hours or days arguing about what is Art. But in my opinion it's not Art until someone else sees or hears it. Until then it's just practice.

Now here's the funny part. Once you show it to someone else it doesn't belong to you anymore. It belongs to you and the audience. Oh sure, you might have some kind of property rights, but it can never really belong to you alone again. And if your art becomes very successful, say on the level of Shakespeare or Star Wars, it becomes part of the culture and belongs to everybody. You can sue the pants off of anyone who infringes on your property rights, but you'll never get you art back.

So, the only way one can maintain total ownership of one's art is to never show it to anyone, but if you never show it to anyone it will never truly be art.

And now, instead of wasting anymore time reading this forum, I'm going to go work on writing a proposal or two for the contest.

[Weiser_Cain]

Then my floors are covered in practice? What if someone sees something by accident, do I now have to give them half or face charges of theft of their half of their 'art'. If you see a piece half-way through is it defacing ART for me to continue drawing?

[Dominic]

Then my floors are covered in practice? What if someone sees something by accident, do I now have to give them half or face charges of theft of their half of their 'art'. If you see a piece half-way through is it defacing ART for me to continue drawing?
Don't take it too literally.

Damn, I just replied and I wasn't going to. must...stop...reading...thread.

[Kris Simon]

This is just ridiculous.

Man, when I said at the beginning not to over-think things, THIS is what I meant. No one is signing their life away. It's a 3-issue series for god's sake. More than that, it's a contest to get published. By a major publisher. With a fantastic artist. With no financial cost to you.

Take complaints elsewhere, please.

[Kris Simon]

Umm, you're a professional in the industry and you don't realize that an intellectual property is far more encompassing than a single comic book? Wow, I'm simply stunned. A story and a character transcend their medium, it's inconceivable you should not know this.

I don't care what kind of a day you have had, your insults are uncalled for. If you don't like the terms of this contest, move along. There is nothing to see here aside from your own ignorance.

Thanks for sharing.

[Weiser_Cain]

I think we'd complain even if you were giving away free money.
Why can't we pick the way it's received? I need lots of ones.

[Blackbeard]

I don't care what kind of a day you have had, your insults are uncalled for. If you don't like the terms of this contest, move along. There is nothing to see here aside from your own ignorance.

Thanks for sharing.

They say that if you don't feed a troll it'll go away. The troll you are speaking to must live here. :D

[J.D. Lombardi]

If you are not interested, why take the time to write such a verbose entry? Are you doing the "noble thing" and warning these "poor ignorant aspiring creators" of how they can be dicked over with a guaranteed published gig with a wonderful professional artist at a major publisher? Wow... that's something we should all try to warn aspiring creators about. The horror. :rolleyes:

lol I like it when you're not all "happy poster." ;)

[Blackbeard]

lol I like it when you're not all "happy poster." ;)

HAHAHAHAHA!

Sometimes I just can't help myself. :D

[comicguy]

I think that this is an excellent, excellent opportunity for those writers interested in breaking into the business. The terms may not be for everyone, but for those willing to accept industry-standard terms, this is a unique opportunity to work with a talented artist and publishing team. I just hope they don't come to regret opening up the floodgates.

[NielsVanEekelen]

They say that if you don't feed a troll it'll go away. The troll you are speaking to must live here. :D
Actually, that's a myth. Scientific research has shown that trolls can live without food for weeks, all the while lying in wait for their prey.

When a troll has claimed a place as its own, though, it will usually defend it to its last breath.

[Hero12]

I think this is brilliant idea. I've already sent in my entry and hope it goes well.

[SAIDESTROYER]

Question: are we allowed to collaborate with another writer (such as how Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning write Nova) or is it strictly one writer for a pitch? It didn't state that in the rules, and I have a friend that I'd love to work with.
cool avatar!! it is an Alex Maleev ilustration, isnt it?

Kyle rules!!!

[SAIDESTROYER]

I think you'd have a successful career in emo rock, though. :D
:lol:

does that "music" ____ still exist?

[stacy4.0]

I usually lurk, but this contest is so interesting. I want to give it a try. Best wishes for all the people submitting. :cool:

[SAIDESTROYER]

Bomb Queen would get her tacky, trashy ass handed to her by my character. Any of my female heroines. She wouldn't kill her though. Just humiliate her, bring her to justice, and show the world that most women aren't exhibitionistic, amoral skanks. Killing is for killers. My ladies don't kill.
your ladies are a bunch of pussies (yeah, pun intended ;) )

and, HEY! what ya got against exhibitionistic, amoral skanks??:mad:




:D

[Blackbeard]

Actually, that's a myth. Scientific research has shown that trolls can live without food for weeks, all the while lying in wait for their prey.

When a troll has claimed a place as its own, though, it will usually defend it to its last breath.

I stand corrected. :D

[kitty_tc]

I don't care what kind of a day you have had, your insults are uncalled for. If you don't like the terms of this contest, move along. There is nothing to see here aside from your own ignorance.

Thanks for sharing.

Ad hominem attacks are not addressing the point, Ms Simon. Which is that you're expecting writers to give away ownership and rights to characters and stories they created to someone they've never met, and dangling as incentive the elusive opportunity of being published. How precisely is that different from the work-for-hire arrangements you claim to so despise, when control is lost to it's creator either way? It's been repeatedly said, once you make this deal you no longer have control of your creation. This other individual has veto power over anything you do with the concept in the future, be it in comic book form or any other. You can't, as the creator, commission another artist to draw it or pitch it to another company or self-publish it or anything at all without the approval of this second owner you're forcing people to accept. And through all this, you're trumpeting yourself a protector of creator's rights, while seeking to remove same.

I asked the artist I work with this same question, and her response was that unless the artist in question was a direct collaborator in the work's creation, rather than simply drew from a completed script, that the property should remain with it's creator. No one I've spoken to outside this forum has said differently.

As I've said, it's not about money. I don't care if I never see a red cent off my storytelling. I do this for love, not money. It's about creative control, and the loss thereof. It's shocking that you expect people to be locked out of the control of their own creations, and while it's obvious you have some takers for your deal, the long-term implications are disturbing to say the least.

In an age where print and physical media are disappearing and corporate middle-men are fading into the past as more creative artists in every media are self-publishing via the web, it's no longer the only game in town. In a game of "your way of the highway", the highway is becoming a more appealing option all the time.

You're right in one thing, your destination is not for me. I'll take the highway, and the freedom of the open road instead. I don't know where it's going, but at least I get to keep control of the steering wheel.

[Blackbeard]

Good luck to all the contestants! :)

[HieuLeBui]

I asked the artist I work with this same question, and her response was that unless the artist in question was a direct collaborator in the work's creation, rather than simply drew from a completed script, that the property should remain with it's creator. No one I've spoken to outside this forum has said differently.

You have no idea what you are talking about or how Image as a whole works or how a comic property is shared when you are in a team. I guess to you there is no “we” in the word “team”. Please stop posting before you embarrasses yourself any further. Please stop posting for the love of god.

[Kris Simon]

Ad hominem attacks are not addressing the point, Ms Simon. Which is that you're expecting writers to give away ownership and rights to characters and stories they created to someone they've never met, and dangling as incentive the elusive opportunity of being published. How precisely is that different from the work-for-hire arrangements you claim to so despise, when control is lost to it's creator either way? It's been repeatedly said, once you make this deal you no longer have control of your creation. This other individual has veto power over anything you do with the concept in the future, be it in comic book form or any other. You can't, as the creator, commission another artist to draw it or pitch it to another company or self-publish it or anything at all without the approval of this second owner you're forcing people to accept. And through all this, you're trumpeting yourself a protector of creator's rights, while seeking to remove same.

For the last time, crazy lady who needs to have the last word, I am not FORCING anyone to do anything! If you don't like the terms....DON'T ENTER. I've claimed to "so despise" nothing. It has NOT been repeatedly said that you lose control of your creation once you make this deal. How on earth does sharing half (that's sharing, not handing everything over) with the person who is creating the entire look of the project equal up to removing creator's right? The way I see it, this IS protecting Franchesco's rights as a creator. If you don't need your artist to create the look of your book, good for you. Don't submit your writing sample to the contest.

Jeez...that horse you are beating? It died 6 pages ago. It's time to find something else to be upset about, preferably not having to do with this contest. If you find you can't resist saying something else that is negative, do us all a favor and PM it to me. No one else should have this fun contest ruined by you. I'll respond to you privately, since you obviously think this is personal. You've made your warnings, people who read the thread know. The point has been addressed ad nauseam.

[Pauul]

Hey. I'd just like to thank Kris and Franchesco for this wonderful oppotunity. As an aspiring writer in is often quite daunting facing the impossible task of trying to break into the buisness. The odds may still be stacked against us, but I'm sure nearly every writer (though obviously not all) visiting Newsarama will appreciate this chance.

Better go over my ideas. Damn, why do so many of my ideas have to feature male protagonists? Oh well, there are a few I can adapt... some may even be more interesting with a female central character. Plus I have a whole month to think up new ideas too. I better get to work.

[nwspencer]

Ad hominem attacks are not addressing the point, Ms Simon. Which is that you're expecting writers to give away ownership and rights to characters and stories they created to someone they've never met, and dangling as incentive the elusive opportunity of being published. How precisely is that different from the work-for-hire arrangements you claim to so despise, when control is lost to it's creator either way? It's been repeatedly said, once you make this deal you no longer have control of your creation. This other individual has veto power over anything you do with the concept in the future, be it in comic book form or any other. You can't, as the creator, commission another artist to draw it or pitch it to another company or self-publish it or anything at all without the approval of this second owner you're forcing people to accept. And through all this, you're trumpeting yourself a protector of creator's rights, while seeking to remove same.

I asked the artist I work with this same question, and her response was that unless the artist in question was a direct collaborator in the work's creation, rather than simply drew from a completed script, that the property should remain with it's creator. No one I've spoken to outside this forum has said differently.

As I've said, it's not about money. I don't care if I never see a red cent off my storytelling. I do this for love, not money. It's about creative control, and the loss thereof. It's shocking that you expect people to be locked out of the control of their own creations, and while it's obvious you have some takers for your deal, the long-term implications are disturbing to say the least.

In an age where print and physical media are disappearing and corporate middle-men are fading into the past as more creative artists in every media are self-publishing via the web, it's no longer the only game in town. In a game of "your way of the highway", the highway is becoming a more appealing option all the time.

You're right in one thing, your destination is not for me. I'll take the highway, and the freedom of the open road instead. I don't know where it's going, but at least I get to keep control of the steering wheel.

I'm just going to throw it out there...

Ban?

[Dhaise]

The absolute, most positively successful way to break into comic publishing is to illustrate at the door just how poorly you collaborate with others and how quickly you lose touch with reality.
Usually, I have to go to a convention to see this kind of ignorant ranting, bravo!

[SAIDESTROYER]

...crazy lady who needs to have the last word

BEST. PHRASE. EVER!!

Anyway, I guess both of you have a point: Kitty (or wathever her real name is) in her concern about losing control of her character. I didn't think it twice or stopped to consider a buch of things and just sent out my idea. Althought she was a bit rude in the way she was expressing herself, it doesn't make her oppinion (and concerns) less valid. I even started to think a little before talkin (writin) the first thing that comes to my mind (that is the reason cause my proposal will be taken as crap and I wont win the contest *)

But Kris (and the Image staff) are giving a one-of-a-kind chance to all wannabe writers around, and it is not limited to the USA folks interested. As Dave Mustaine seez, "no is NO", and if, Kitty (or anybody), this doesn't work fer ya or you think you will be abused in any concibable way, for Feetal's Gizz, DON'T FRAGGIN' SEND ANYTHING

It was perfectly made clear that, even if you (assuming you participate and win the contest) cant write and publish more stuff with this character by yourself, FRANCEZCO WONT NEITHER, so take it easy, no one is going to steal no ____ from you

Now in tune, I hope you never get married and raise kids, 'cause if ya divorce, the poor schnook of your husband will be throught hell against ya






Now, thinkin about it better, I like a gal with stones (not literaly). MARRY ME :D





(*) Reverse psychology, reverse psychology. It has to work someday!!!

[SAIDESTROYER]

I'm just going to throw it out there...

Ban?
Not necesary, pal ;)

Anyway, this is a forum. It is supposed to be a place where ya can shoot your personal opinion about anything. Even if many people found kitty rude for the way she expressed herself, it is not a reason enough to ban her. I don't ban my mother from my life, no matter how much she nags me an annoys me aaaaall day long





There ya got, the STUPIDEST analogy ever!!!

Have fun! :D

[isaacd]

You're right in one thing, your destination is not for me. I'll take the highway, and the freedom of the open road instead. I don't know where it's going, but at least I get to keep control of the steering wheel.


um if its not for you, if you dont care...SHUT THE ____ UP


jesus christ(sorry lord)

BUT IF YOU DONT AGREE WITH THE RULES OF THE CONTEST
STOP WASTING YOUR TIME. You know HOW ____ING LUCKY us
writers are to have this OPP when so many contest are geared for writers
this is the reason image comics remains a fav in my book, they think
mostly about the little guys out there, if you cant appreciate them
TAKE your lame ass ideas somewhere else, Your annoying.


ps sorry for cussin but daym

[nwspencer]

Not necesary, pal ;)

Anyway, this is a forum. It is supposed to be a place where ya can shoot your personal opinion about anything. Even if many people found kitty rude for the way she expressed herself, it is not a reason enough to ban her. I don't ban my mother from my life, no matter how much she nags me an annoys me aaaaall day long





There ya got, the STUPIDEST analogy ever!!!

Have fun! :D

It's a forum that has rules, a couple of which she's pretty actively breaking.

[Blackbeard]

It's a forum that has rules, a couple of which she's pretty actively breaking.

I've already reported her. We'll see if anything comes of it.

*AHEM*

Mr. Brady...? :D

[reinemann2]

Hey, they took my So Ya Wanna Write contest and made it cool again...SWEET!
It even has that same acrid stench of cynicism and drama!