Action comics 858?

[mattarr92]

where are the spoilers??

[caats19]

it was awesome. awesome.

[LChristopher]

This series instantly jumped into my top 5. Incredible art (love the more slender Christopher Reeve version that GF is going with. This was a perfect setup for this upcoming Legion of Superheroes story. This is the best DC single issue I've read in some time. The cliffhanger ending has me hanging on, and I can't express my anticipation for what's coming up.

10 out of 10 stars

[God-Man]

I liked this issue a lot. It once again touched on Superman's feelings of lonliness and isolation as a kid, but in a little more detail. It also showed how and why the Legion was so important to Superman's childhood.

On the art side, Gary Frank was amazing. He's great at drawing a wide variety of facial expressions, and that talent was very important to this issue. he did a great job conveying Clark's lonliness in the flashbacks, as well as his pure joy at getting to travel with the Legion to their time.

Plot wise, Johns jumped right into the action. Superman tries to stop a rampaging Brainiac, only to find that Brainiac 5 is using as a time diver to travel to the past. Brainaic recruits Superman to travel to the future to essentially save it. Without hesitating, Superman jumps in a time bubble Brainy supplied, and lands in the year 3008. There, he meets Colossal Boy, Dawnstar, and Wildfire as they're fighting off the Science Police. They tell him the real reason why they didn't want to bring Superman to the future. Aside from the fact that his name and what he stands for has been violated, Earth's sun is now red.

The only thing I didn't like about this issue was the Daily Planet scene. It seemed like Johns threw away all of the character developement of Clark Jimmy and Perry from the last few years. I know he was going for a more timeless, classic depiction of the character, but Perry and clark should be more familiar than how they acted in this issue. And couldn't Jimmy call Clark "Clark" by now?

[ichorskeeter]

The only thing I didn't like about this issue was the Daily Planet scene. It seemed like Johns threw away all of the character developement of Clark Jimmy and Perry from the last few years. I know he was going for a more timeless, classic depiction of the character, but Perry and clark should be more familiar than how they acted in this issue. And couldn't Jimmy call Clark "Clark" by now?

Nah. Let Johns do his Johnsing, I say.

[God-Man]

Nah. Let Johns do his Johnsing, I say.

Bah I say, bah!

[caats19]

i like it like that. also glad frank changed the face on the cover

[Kenro]

Speaking of cast, what ever happened to Cat Grant?

[Equinox]

Speaking of cast, what ever happened to Cat Grant?
I think she's whoring it up in New York. :p

Anyways, this was the first issue of Action Comics that I've bought since, oh, I'm gonna say 2002, back when Superman had the black S-shield after the Our Worlds At War had ended. It's been five years since I bought a copy of Action Comics, which, along with Detective Comics, used to be my favorite book to buy. Is it worth it? Oh god yes. $3.50 for a marginally bigger issue, totally worth the price, and the art along with the writing is phenomenal. And what a cliffhanger! That's easily the moment of the week. Easily.

I haven't enjoyed a Superman comic this much...well, since the last issue of All-Star Superman. But an issue of Action Comics? I haven't enjoyed an issue of Action this much since Roger Stern was writing it. That's saying something.

[pojoman]

i got it and i must say that was pretty awesome and i very much like colossal boy's new costume:)

[ziza9]

So glad I picked this up. Long Live The Legion. One of the best Superman stories I've read in a long long time. Perfect scores from me.

[eggie]

This has to be my favorite single issue of the year!!! It was awesome!! Great writing/story=check, Great art=check!!! I am going to read this issue again and again and again and again.

Love Gary Frank's Superman...no need for him to look like Ahnold since Supes gets his powers from the yellow sun...and the Legion Frank drew looked great!

The only bad thing about Action Comics is that I have to wait a month for the next issue! ;)

[BubbaKanoosh]

I bought this for Frank's art..
but the wicked story was an added bonus..

that beginnin was creepy as hell...

[Kenro]

I think she's whoring it up in New York. :p

Acceptable answer.

[LChristopher]

I reread it about 2 hours after I read it the first time, so this is definitely high on my radar, and from what Johns and Frank have said, this is intended to be a substantial run.

I think we've witnessed the first issue of one of those historical runs for the ages, much like the current Captain America run at Marvel is. Although they'll be unfortunately handicapped due to there being several Superman books)

[adama]

I reread it about 2 hours after I read it the first time, so this is definitely high on my radar, and from what Johns and Frank have said, this is intended to be a substantial run.

I think we've witnessed the first issue of one of those historical runs for the ages, much like the current Captain America run at Marvel is. Although they'll be unfortunately handicapped due to there being several Superman books)
Worry not faithful reader. Kurt Busiek is doing fantastic work on Superman.

[rks404]

I'm chiming in with everyone - this was the book of the week for me. It's weird when a book comes out of nowhere and just takes me by surprise.

So the way that they are reworking the Legion of Super-Heroes into the Superman mythos is very similar to what was done in the cartoon. I never read much of the LSH old run, but I simply love that the Legion was what Clark Kent was able to look up to and emulate as he became Superman.

I thought that making the Earth of the future under a Red Sun was just a brilliant touch too. I'm really curious to see the Justice League of 3008.

What's up with the Superman in all black costume at the end of the issue? I saw him in the ad for the latest crossover but don't know anything else about him. Is he someone that we've seen before?

[Skyrider]

I enjoyed every frame. I can't wait to see what's been happening.

[BubbaKanoosh]

Since I really didnt know what the hell was going on in Lightning Saga, I have a feeling this would help me understand it..

this seems to be the 2nd half of the story...

[jmcl89]

I liked the story. I think Frank's art is an acquired taste I haven't acquired yet, but it may grow on me over time. He's prone to drawing some really unattractive facial expressions at times, but the art was otherwise very dynamic.

[caats19]

Since I really didnt know what the hell was going on in Lightning Saga, I have a feeling this would help me understand it..

this seems to be the 2nd half of the story...

not really. just know they came "a month" ago like they said in the comic. we don't know why the future is destroyed either. and they were wearing their normal uni's in lightning saga

[BubbaKanoosh]

not really. just know they came "a month" ago like they said in the comic. we don't know why the future is destroyed either. and they were wearing their normal uni's in lightning saga

Well, they did mention in they couldnt tell them anything when they went back in time AND that they didnt want him to follow them either..

Whatever they tried to do, it failed.

so its sorta a continuation somewhat. not directly.

[caats19]

Well, they did mention in they couldnt tell them anything when they went back in time AND that they didnt want him to follow them either..

Whatever they tried to do, it failed.

so its sorta a continuation somewhat. not directly.

they didn't say anything like that before. we didn't know they didn't want him to follow him, tho i guess we could assume that since they left so quickly.

[donna_fan]

This was, quite simply, made of awesome.

In every conceivable way. Brilliant work by all involved, and a story that I cannot wait a day, let alone a month to see continue.

Original Legion? Oh, hell yes! That scene in Smallville was just a downright tear-jerker. The beginning was awesome horror. The end, fantastic.

I don't how this book could be this good. But it is.

[johnnyrocket]

I don't want to get caught up in the whole time paradox thing here but where do you think this is headed? How will this reconcile with the current Legion re-boot? Going by the crazy logisitics set up now after Infinity Crisis, they should have still been wiped out of existance and replaced by the current re-boot. Are they setting up that Clark went to another Earth's future? Or that THIS is the future of Earth One and all the other re-boots of LSH for the last 20 years have been different Eath's?

Loved this issue and was totally reminded how much I loved this Legion. This IS the Legion and I realised I've just been waiting 20 yrs for them to come back. :)

[Binker]

Review up here:
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=134797

[victor lanza]

I loved every bit of this book. I was so hoping that John's would re-intro the Legion in a way that would make sense--and he pulled it off perfectly!
And the last panel...Brilliant. This is a must buy book!!!
Can't wait for next issue.

[Solidius]

I dug this issue. :)

[AdamYJ]

I don't want to get caught up in the whole time paradox thing here but where do you think this is headed? How will this reconcile with the current Legion re-boot? Going by the crazy logisitics set up now after Infinity Crisis, they should have still been wiped out of existance and replaced by the current re-boot. Are they setting up that Clark went to another Earth's future? Or that THIS is the future of Earth One and all the other re-boots of LSH for the last 20 years have been different Eath's?

Loved this issue and was totally reminded how much I loved this Legion. This IS the Legion and I realised I've just been waiting 20 yrs for them to come back. :)

I think that the basic idea is going to be that all the Legions exist, but are just on divergent timelines. They mentioned something about "The Legions of Three Worlds" during the Lightning Saga. Each one more or less came to be around a time and space altering event. So, basically, there was one Legion that existed originally and got altered with the first Crisis. There was another that arose with the Zero Hour crisis. And there's the current one that started roughly around when the machinations that led to Infinite Crisis were coming into play. It's only recently that the original Legion timeline has been able to find a way to reconnect with the current timeline, though the third (current) Legion is still in play. Time is fluid after all.

Y'know, it's interesting, for years people complained about how the removal of Superboy screwed up the Legion of Superheroes. Yet, this story is actually approaching it from the other direction. It's not about what Clark means to the Legion, it's about what the Legion means to Clark.

[Supreme Convoy]

I know squat about Leigion (other than the cartoons). But I enjoyed this issue! Love Gary Frank's art.

[ziza9]

they didn't say anything like that before. we didn't know they didn't want him to follow him, tho i guess we could assume that since they left so quickly.

I can't remember the exact issue of the crossover, but they did mention something about the future not being safe for a Superman. Ah, here it is...from JSA #6
Karate Kid:"We should have told Kal"
Dawnstar: "Told him what Val?" "What's happened to the Legion? What's happened to his name? We can't risk him trying to follow us back. The future's too dangerous for Superman now."

[SouthtownKid]

I loved this issue, and it was the perfect primer for anyone who has never read the Legion before or wonders why they should care. This issue is why.

[JohnLynch]

It was a lot better then the other Geoff Johns and Richard Donner's earlier stories (no offense but I just didn't enjoy them). I've been looking forward to reading LoSH stuff as I read the Cosmic Boy miniseries from the 80s and enjoyed it quite a bit. However I didn't see Richard Donner's name in the credits, or on the DC website. Has he finished working on Action Comics now?

I think that the basic idea is going to be that all the Legions exist, but are just on divergent timelines. They mentioned something about "The Legions of Three Worlds" during the Lightning Saga. Each one more or less came to be around a time and space altering event. So, basically, there was one Legion that existed originally and got altered with the first Crisis. There was another that arose with the Zero Hour crisis. And there's the current one that started roughly around when the machinations that led to Infinite Crisis were coming into play. It's only recently that the original Legion timeline has been able to find a way to reconnect with the current timeline, though the third (current) Legion is still in play. Time is fluid after all.This helps explain it a lot. However I'm still slightly confused as to Superman's knowledge.

First there was Earth-2 Superman. This is Golden Age stuff tweaked a little bit (Earth-2 Superman always worked at the Daily Star and never at the Daily Planet). This Superman participated in the Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Then there's Earth-1 Superman. This is the Silver Age stuff with some shared history with Earth-2 Superman (moving the events forward in time). No tweaking except removing the Daily Star. This Superman participated in the Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Then there's New Earth Superman. This Superman is quite distinct from the Earth-1 and Earth-2 Supermans as he never had a career as Superboy and never had any dealings with any alternate universe Superman people until Infinite Crisis. There's probably some shared history between this Superman and Earth-1 Superman, but it isn't anywhere near as much as Earth-2 and Earth-1 had. New Earth Superman did NOT participate in Crisis on Infinite Earths.

So the question is: How does New Earth Superman know about Crisis on Infinite Earths?

Part of the answer might be in Superman v2 #8 from 1987 in it the (I'm assuming) Earth-1 Legion of Super-Heroes meets New Earth Superman so they could have told him about the Crisis on Infinite Earths having happened recently then. Does anyone know for sure?

Some people might roll their eyes at that question and think it nitpicking, but its important (to me) as it explains what past experiences this character we're reading about has had.

[Johnny Triangles]

It was a lot better then the other Geoff Johns and Richard Donner's earlier stories (no offense but I just didn't enjoy them). I've been looking forward to reading LoSH stuff as I read the Cosmic Boy miniseries from the 80s and enjoyed it quite a bit. However I didn't see Richard Donner's name in the credits, or on the DC website. Has he finished working on Action Comics now?

This helps explain it a lot. However I'm still slightly confused as to Superman's knowledge.

First there was Earth-2 Superman. This is Golden Age stuff tweaked a little bit (Earth-2 Superman always worked at the Daily Star and never at the Daily Planet). This Superman participated in the Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Then there's Earth-1 Superman. This is the Silver Age stuff with some shared history with Earth-2 Superman (moving the events forward in time). No tweaking except removing the Daily Star. This Superman participated in the Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Then there's New Earth Superman. This Superman is quite distinct from the Earth-1 and Earth-2 Supermans as he never had a career as Superboy and never had any dealings with any alternate universe Superman people until Infinite Crisis. There's probably some shared history between this Superman and Earth-1 Superman, but it isn't anywhere near as much as Earth-2 and Earth-1 had. New Earth Superman did NOT participate in Crisis on Infinite Earths.

So the question is: How does New Earth Superman know about Crisis on Infinite Earths?

Part of the answer might be in Superman v2 #8 from 1987 in it the (I'm assuming) Earth-1 Legion of Super-Heroes meets New Earth Superman so they could have told him about the Crisis on Infinite Earths having happened recently then. Does anyone know for sure?

Some people might roll their eyes at that question and think it nitpicking, but its important (to me) as it explains what past experiences this character we're reading about has had.

New Earth Superman actually came into creation after Infinite Crisis. After the original Crisis on Infinite Earths but before Infinite Crisis existed Post-Crisis Superman, the one with the Man of Steel origin by Byrne.

So you have Earth 2 Superman, Earth 1 Superman, which is the one that was a Legion member if I recall correctly, Post-Crisis Superman with the Man of Steel origin, then New Earth Superman who may have the Birthright origin or who knows what. How exactly he interacted with the Legion as a kid is a mystery to me, and due to the Superboy litigation DC probably won't get into too much detail about it. But basically, he was a member of one Legion, Supergirl was a member of another Legion that had alternate versions of the same members, yet they never once compared notes.

Crisis really did a lot to simplify DC for new readers, huh?

[JohnLynch]

Crisis really did a lot to simplify DC for new readers, huh?These elements is whats missing from the Marvel Universe for me :)

New Earth Superman actually came into creation after Infinite Crisis.Huh? What makes you say that? The Superman after Infinite Crisis still has all/most of the memories as pre-Infinite Crisis Superman.

Post-Crisis Superman with the Man of Steel origin, then New Earth Superman who may have the Birthright origin or who knows what.Are the differences between Man of Steel and Birthright all you're basing that on? If so then I'd say Birthright co-exists simultaneously with Birthright with only a minimal amount of retconning to make it work.

[<sage>]

I loved the Perry and Clark interaction:

"You been workin here three years?"
"Ten"
"Whatever"

It came across as really fast paced as you would imagine such a conversation to be. Plus the scene where Supes was shot in the hand was really surreal. I loved this book, damn shame about the wait for it ...

[BubbaKanoosh]

they didn't say anything like that before. we didn't know they didn't want him to follow him, tho i guess we could assume that since they left so quickly.

I know they didnt say anything like that before, but they said it this issue which is why I feel it will make Lightning Saga seem less of a mess that it was.

[Clockan]

I loved this issue, and it was the perfect primer for anyone who has never read the Legion before or wonders why they should care. This issue is why.

i agree... im to young to have been able to know the original legion... all i ever knew from them is the COIE series that i got off ebay... all the reboots never really intrested me untill the recent cartoon... now im hooked.. especialy after lightning saga

im kind of wondering why the uniform for dawnstar and wildfire are changed so much... are they a lot older than they were durring lightning saga? because even in the frames for the future with brainy and the other legionairs they have the old uniforms

[Lemurion]

I liked it. Good story and while there were changes it was recognizably the same Legion I grew up with, not one of the wholescale reboots. It's good they're coming back even if only in short runs.

[Kenro]

I loved this issue, and it was the perfect primer for anyone who has never read the Legion before or wonders why they should care. This issue is why.

I could have used an issue like this in the 90's. I really didn't know much about the legion at first. I knew about the Superman connection in the past but that point was moot at the time. I just knew them as a future teen hero book(s).

[Vic Vega]

The only thing I didn't like about this issue was the Daily Planet scene. It seemed like Johns threw away all of the character developement of Clark Jimmy and Perry from the last few years. I know he was going for a more timeless, classic depiction of the character, but Perry and clark should be more familiar than how they acted in this issue. And couldn't Jimmy call Clark "Clark" by now?

This points one of the few real problems I have with the Superman franchise currently.

What happened to the great supporting cast that was set up Bryne/Stern? Where's Rob Troup? Maggie Sawyer? Sgt. Turpin? Prof. Hamilton, anybody? A donde Bibbo?

Did they kill Morgan Edge and forget to tell me?

There was a point when Superman had as good (or better) a supporting cast as the Spider Man books.

What happened?

I'd be happy to see even Steve Lombard at this point.

[amlah6]

I almost never read Superman comics and I know nothing about the Legion, but I loved this. Gary Frank is amazing.

[chap22]

meh. i liked it well enough, but i'm not getting the "book of the week" and "best Superman in years" vibe a lot of you guys are throwing around. i guess i'm just never gonna be able to bring myself to care that much about a Legion story. at least, not the "grown-up Legion" where Dawnstar, Wildfire, etc are involved and everybody else has lost he childlike innocence of the group from when they first encountered Superboy.

but i will say this, Gary Frank was made for this title. period. his Supes is what i picture in my mind when i think of Superman, muscular but not muscle-bound, handsome, athletic looking, but not so monstrously disproportionate that a suit and glasses couldn't maybe fool people into thinking Clark Kent was a different guy.

overall, some nice touches by Johns (loved the brief homage to the 80s robotic Brainiac, "Do i have mustard on my tie again?", the teenage Smallville scenes, and the red sun), some great art, and a story that has me intrigued...but it just features guest characters that i can not care about.

[KirkWarren]

I was kind of digging this book until the "big reveal" at the end. Claiming in the year 3008 our Sun will be a red star is ridiculous. Our Sun will last like 4 or 5 billion more years as a yellow star. As the Sun runs out of hydrogen to fuse, it will start fusing heavier elements and the volume of hte Sun will increase by over a 1000 fold engulfing Mercury and Venus and more than likely Earth. If by some chance Earth's orbit was pushed back far enough to survive annihilation by the expanding Sun, the entire planet would be burnt to a husk of its former self, unable to support any life.

[gwangung]

I was kind of digging this book until the "big reveal" at the end. Claiming in the year 3008 our Sun will be a red star is ridiculous. Our Sun will last like 4 or 5 billion more years as a yellow star. As the Sun runs out of hydrogen to fuse, it will start fusing heavier elements and the volume of hte Sun will increase by over a 1000 fold engulfing Mercury and Venus and more than likely Earth. If by some chance Earth's orbit was pushed back far enough to survive annihilation by the expanding Sun, the entire planet would be burnt to a husk of its former self, unable to support any life.

Assuming that this was a natural event.

[Matthew E]

I was kind of digging this book until the "big reveal" at the end. Claiming in the year 3008 our Sun will be a red star is ridiculous. Our Sun will last like 4 or 5 billion more years as a yellow star. As the Sun runs out of hydrogen to fuse, it will start fusing heavier elements and the volume of hte Sun will increase by over a 1000 fold engulfing Mercury and Venus and more than likely Earth. If by some chance Earth's orbit was pushed back far enough to survive annihilation by the expanding Sun, the entire planet would be burnt to a husk of its former self, unable to support any life.

Then I guess someone must have been tampering with the sun. I nominate Dr. Regulus. In fact... hmmm... didn't Starman say something in the Lightning Saga about how Sun Boy was missing? I think we're on to something here.

[donna_fan]

Assuming that this was a natural event.

Exactly.

<tencharacters>

[Amoebas]

I was kind of digging this book until the "big reveal" at the end. Claiming in the year 3008 our Sun will be a red star is ridiculous. Our Sun will last like 4 or 5 billion more years as a yellow star. As the Sun runs out of hydrogen to fuse, it will start fusing heavier elements and the volume of hte Sun will increase by over a 1000 fold engulfing Mercury and Venus and more than likely Earth. If by some chance Earth's orbit was pushed back far enough to survive annihilation by the expanding Sun, the entire planet would be burnt to a husk of its former self, unable to support any life.
Like the aforementioned Dr. Regulus, Color Kid could sneeze and make the sun polka-dotted if he wanted.

Lots of explanations are possible.

Great book. Loved it with only two exceptions...

In the two page spread of the LSH - if they could put Trip Girl in there, why not Ferro Lad? And there's no Chemical King anywhere that I saw.

Apart from that - this is easily the book of the week.

[chap22]

Great book. Loved it with only two exceptions...

In the two page spread of the LSH - if they could put Trip Girl in there, why not Ferro Lad?


look again, far left at the bottom.

[Floyd Lawton]

Ya Ferro Lad was there. Matter Eater Lad too I think.

[Apocolyptus]

meh. i liked it well enough, but i'm not getting the "book of the week" and "best Superman in years" vibe a lot of you guys are throwing around. i guess i'm just never gonna be able to bring myself to care that much about a Legion story. at least, not the "grown-up Legion" where Dawnstar, Wildfire, etc are involved and everybody else has lost he childlike innocence of the group from when they first encountered Superboy.

but i will say this, Gary Frank was made for this title. period. his Supes is what i picture in my mind when i think of Superman, muscular but not muscle-bound, handsome, athletic looking, but not so monstrously disproportionate that a suit and glasses couldn't maybe fool people into thinking Clark Kent was a different guy.

overall, some nice touches by Johns (loved the brief homage to the 80s robotic Brainiac, "Do i have mustard on my tie again?", the teenage Smallville scenes, and the red sun), some great art, and a story that has me intrigued...but it just features guest characters that i can not care about.

I agree with this. I don't really care (nor understand) the hype or the excitement over LOSH. I'm not saying it was a bad story or a bad opening to an arc, but I didn't have a Legiongasm when I started reading it. I guess I'm missing something.

[Johnny Triangles]

These elements is whats missing from the Marvel Universe for me :)

Huh? What makes you say that? The Superman after Infinite Crisis still has all/most of the memories as pre-Infinite Crisis Superman.

Are the differences between Man of Steel and Birthright all you're basing that on? If so then I'd say Birthright co-exists simultaneously with Birthright with only a minimal amount of retconning to make it work.


Alexander Luthor implied in INfinite Crisis #7 after the creation of New Earth that Earth records now showed the existence of a Superboy in Smallville predating the first recorded appearance of Superman. Of course they couldn't explicitly use the name Superboy because of the litigation problems so he just heavily implied the return of the Clark Kent as Superboy of Smallville. Then Lightning Saga and interviews with Johns showed that Superman now also remembers a childhood with the Legion. The existence of a Superboy, a birthright origin where he grows up with Lex and a childhood as a friend of the Legion combined with the fact that Superman's origin has never been completely laid out post Infinite Crisis makes it clear that there are a lot more differences to Post-Crisis Superman and Infinite Crisis than simply reconciling Man of Steel and Birthright.

[God-Man]

This points one of the few real problems I have with the Superman franchise currently.

What happened to the great supporting cast that was set up Bryne/Stern? Where's Rob Troup? Maggie Sawyer? Sgt. Turpin? Prof. Hamilton, anybody? A donde Bibbo?

Did they kill Morgan Edge and forget to tell me?

There was a point when Superman had as good (or better) a supporting cast a the Spider Man books.

What happened?

I'd be happy to see even Steve Lombard at this point.

Funny you should mention Morgan Edge. He showed up in this weeks excellent Superman Confidential #8. The story took place in the past, but at least he still exists on New Earth.

[Lemurion]

I agree with this. I don't really care (nor understand) the hype or the excitement over LOSH. I'm not saying it was a bad story or a bad opening to an arc, but I didn't have a Legiongasm when I started reading it. I guess I'm missing something.

They say the golden age of science fiction is thirteen, and I believe that's true for comics too. This version of the Legion was my favorite comic when I was thirteen and had been for a couple of years. That's why I loved this issue.

This Legion's not identical to the one I remember, but after 25 or more years the Legion they published then isn't identical to the one I remember, either. What I'm seeing has the right feel, it's a modern interpretation of recognizably the same characters. They feel, and that's a very subjective thing, the way I expect the Legion would have with minor retcons like most characters have had rather than full scale reboots. The other versions have always seemed to be characters based on the originals more than reinterpretations.

They are the characters I remember. They're finally back.

[Amoebas]

look again, far left at the bottom.
Oops (thanks) still no Chemical King tho.

[AdamYJ]

This helps explain it a lot. However I'm still slightly confused as to Superman's knowledge.

First there was Earth-2 Superman. This is Golden Age stuff tweaked a little bit (Earth-2 Superman always worked at the Daily Star and never at the Daily Planet). This Superman participated in the Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Then there's Earth-1 Superman. This is the Silver Age stuff with some shared history with Earth-2 Superman (moving the events forward in time). No tweaking except removing the Daily Star. This Superman participated in the Crisis on Infinite Earths.

Then there's New Earth Superman. This Superman is quite distinct from the Earth-1 and Earth-2 Supermans as he never had a career as Superboy and never had any dealings with any alternate universe Superman people until Infinite Crisis. There's probably some shared history between this Superman and Earth-1 Superman, but it isn't anywhere near as much as Earth-2 and Earth-1 had. New Earth Superman did NOT participate in Crisis on Infinite Earths.

So the question is: How does New Earth Superman know about Crisis on Infinite Earths?

Part of the answer might be in Superman v2 #8 from 1987 in it the (I'm assuming) Earth-1 Legion of Super-Heroes meets New Earth Superman so they could have told him about the Crisis on Infinite Earths having happened recently then. Does anyone know for sure?

Some people might roll their eyes at that question and think it nitpicking, but its important (to me) as it explains what past experiences this character we're reading about has had.

What? This Superman participated in the Crisis. :confused: Just like how the Post-Crisis Superman apparently took part in the Crisis. It's the same Superman but his history was tweaked, just like with the last Crisis.

It's not like if you ask this Superman about the Crisis he'll say "What Crisis? I just showed up a few months ago."

Look, no matter how the timeline is changed, the Crisis always happened. And if the Crisis happened, it means all the active superheroes took part in it. Post-Crisis, it's just that the details get hazy. What people basically remember is that the Anti-Monitor started screwing with reality, Harbringer and Pariah show up, the skies got red, Barry Allen and a few other heroes die, then they win. I'm not sure how that stands after Infinite Crisis, but I'm pretty sure that almost everyone remembers the Crisis happening.

[Matthew E]

I think we can put it like this: New Earth Superman participated in the New Earth version of Crisis on Infinite Earths. Whatever that was.

[Johnny Triangles]

What? This Superman participated in the Crisis. :confused: Just like how the Post-Crisis Superman apparently took part in the Crisis. It's the same Superman but his history was tweaked, just like with the last Crisis.

It's not like if you ask this Superman about the Crisis he'll say "What Crisis? I just showed up a few months ago."

Look, no matter how the timeline is changed, the Crisis always happened. And if the Crisis happened, it means all the active superheroes took part in it. Post-Crisis, it's just that the details get hazy. What people basically remember is that the Anti-Monitor started screwing with reality, Harbringer and Pariah show up, the skies got red, Barry Allen and a few other heroes die, then they win. I'm not sure how that stands after Infinite Crisis, but I'm pretty sure that almost everyone remembers the Crisis happening.

But how can people remember it if so many things changed? For example, if Post Crisis changed history so that there was only one Earth. Fine. So now that there is only one Earth, what was the Anti-Monitor's plot when he showed up in the post-Crisis timeline? Did he come to just destroy the one Earth? What is remembered about Supergirl's sacrifice and didn't Wonder Woman die at the end? Basically, if the Universe was reset from way back in the beginning so that there was always one earth, how was Anti-monitor stopped? Which heroes fought the Anti-Monitor in post-Crisis and New Earth timelines?

[Mundungus]

I thought the issue was pretty cool, though a lingering question I still have is why is it that this Earth's Legion is the old-school Legion, and not the Legion that Supergirl transported herself to? Has that ever been explained?

[IvCNuB4]

That's probably what Action Comics will explain by the time this arc is over ....

[AdamYJ]

But how can people remember it if so many things changed? For example, if Post Crisis changed history so that there was only one Earth. Fine. So now that there is only one Earth, what was the Anti-Monitor's plot when he showed up in the post-Crisis timeline? Did he come to just destroy the one Earth? What is remembered about Supergirl's sacrifice and didn't Wonder Woman die at the end? Basically, if the Universe was reset from way back in the beginning so that there was always one earth, how was Anti-monitor stopped? Which heroes fought the Anti-Monitor in post-Crisis and New Earth timelines?

Y'know what? You're overthinking it.

If you overthink it, it gets too confusing.

I mean, you're right that if they remember the whole thing, they should remember the multiverse and Supergirl's sacrifice and Wonder Woman dying and all that. However, if they don't remember it, they shouldn't be able to remember how Barry Allen died. And everyone's pretty damn sure that Barry's dead and he died saving the universe.

So, it just goes like this, people remember a Crisis happening on New Earth. They remember that there was an Anti-Monitor and they remember that Barry died. That's it. They remember all that they need to know.

[chap22]

But how can people remember it if so many things changed? For example, if Post Crisis changed history so that there was only one Earth. Fine. So now that there is only one Earth, what was the Anti-Monitor's plot when he showed up in the post-Crisis timeline? Did he come to just destroy the one Earth? What is remembered about Supergirl's sacrifice and didn't Wonder Woman die at the end? Basically, if the Universe was reset from way back in the beginning so that there was always one earth, how was Anti-monitor stopped? Which heroes fought the Anti-Monitor in post-Crisis and New Earth timelines?

you're trying too hard, and it's making you confuse yourself.

try this:

pre-Crisis: there was a multiverse. which people are now starting to remember.

Crisis: anti-Monitor wanted to destroy the multiverse, heroes stopped him, resulting in 1 universe

Infinite Crisis: Alex Luthor created "New Earth", a new version of the 1 Earth left post-Crisis, which had its own "new" version of the earth's history (here is where they screwed up the details, but he history of Crises remains the same)

52: creation of new multiverse, with retroactive histories


look, yes it's all confusing, but that's just the details, man. some of those got fuzzed over in-story, some have been fuzzed over by editorial over the years. don't sweat the small stuff. just read the stories and enjoy the characters for who they are, not where they've been. (and no, i can't believe that sentence just came out of my mouth either...:eek: ;) )

[jgiannantoni]

I think we can put it like this: New Earth Superman participated in the New Earth version of Crisis on Infinite Earths. Whatever that was.

JLA Incarnations #5 details the "Post-Crisis version" of Crisis on Infinite Earths (where Anti-Monitor was not trying to destroy the multiple Earths, but instead trying to destroy the universe merging all the time eras together). It may be that the same thing has happened with New Earth.

[jgiannantoni]

double post on accident

[Kent Horton]

I liked Wildfire's redesign. And I still want Chemical King back, even if he's dead. :(

[AdamYJ]

One thing I picked up is that Brainy said he was studying the Speed Force, which means that the whole theory about Bart being what they were after in The Lightning Saga could be true.

[donna_fan]

One thing I picked up is that Brainy said he was studying the Speed Force, which means that the whole theory about Bart being what they were after in The Lightning Saga could be true.

I agree. I thought that was really interesting.

I'm convinced that this is going to turn out to be a real hum-dinger of a story.

[eggie]

I agree. I thought that was really interesting.

I'm convinced that this is going to turn out to be a real hum-dinger of a story.

I hope the Legion finds a way to bring Bart back because I miss him...he was sooooooooo much fun when he was Impulse...they should bring him back as Impulse!!

I loved your use of hum-dinger. That phrase does not get used nearly enough in my opinion...nice one donna_fan...i give you 5 points!! :D

[chap22]

One thing I picked up is that Brainy said he was studying the Speed Force, which means that the whole theory about Bart being what they were after in The Lightning Saga could be true.
i still think it's Barry.

[eggie]

i still think it's Barry.

I hate to tell you this, but I think its Bart because I don't see DC bringing Barry back any time soon.

Please don't yell at me chap22...I, like you, love Nightwing so because of that you should go easy on me! ;)

[donna_fan]

I hope the Legion finds a way to bring Bart back because I miss him...he was sooooooooo much fun when he was Impulse...they should bring him back as Impulse!!

I loved your use of hum-dinger. That phrase does not get used nearly enough in my opinion...nice one donna_fan...i give you 5 points!! :D

HAHA

Excellent! I need all the points I can get. ;)

[Action Ace]

One thing I picked up is that Brainy said he was studying the Speed Force, which means that the whole theory about Bart being what they were after in The Lightning Saga could be true.

Considering that we're dealing with what is billed as the "Original Earth One Legion," Barry Allen is the far more likely option.

If we get the three Legion's together, I see Bart with XS and her Legion.



Action #858 was an excellent issue and the return to the non jock high school Clark was welcome and really needed to make the Legion story work.

Pre-Crisis DC, there are no substitutes. :D

[chap22]

I hate to tell you this, but I think its Bart because I don't see DC bringing Barry back any time soon.

Please don't yell at me chap22...I, like you, love Nightwing so because of that you should go easy on me! ;)
i don't think they're bringing EITHER back soon (although a temporary return by both for Final Crisis would have some nic symmetry i suppose), i just think Barry makes more sense as to who Brainy would ATTEMPT to bring back.

[Johnny Triangles]

Y'know what? You're overthinking it.

If you overthink it, it gets too confusing.

I mean, you're right that if they remember the whole thing, they should remember the multiverse and Supergirl's sacrifice and Wonder Woman dying and all that. However, if they don't remember it, they shouldn't be able to remember how Barry Allen died. And everyone's pretty damn sure that Barry's dead and he died saving the universe.

So, it just goes like this, people remember a Crisis happening on New Earth. They remember that there was an Anti-Monitor and they remember that Barry died. That's it. They remember all that they need to know.

So let me ask this, as I am not that acquainted with the DCU in general (I tend to avoid it due to conversations just like this that make my head hurt)....what does the Anti-Monitor remember? And is Post-Crisis Superman a seperate entity from Superman Earth 1 or is he an amalgam of all the Supermen that existed pre-Crisis with the exception of Superman Earth-2, who remained intact, or is he just an partially amnesiac Superman Earth 1?

I know people say I'm overthinking it, but when DC lately seems intent on bringing this stuff back and bringing back Anti-Monitor, Superman Earth 2 and Superman Prime, it's not as easy to just ignore as it was before Infinite Crisis.

[Johnny Triangles]

i don't think they're bringing EITHER back soon (although a temporary return by both for Final Crisis would have some nic symmetry i suppose), i just think Barry makes more sense as to who Brainy would ATTEMPT to bring back.

Especially since Bart never even existed in thier timeline. But then it makes me think...the very fact that it would make sense is a good enough reason to think it is exactly what will NOT happen, because apparently DC usually goes for whatever option will make less sense and make the continuity MORE confusing. For that reason, I think it's Bart.

[K-DoG7p7]

i still think it's Barry.
yeah.. Dan was REALLY! clear that we won't see barry back.. EVER!
but has never given given a clear answer to bart :P

[Action Ace]

yeah.. Dan was REALLY! clear that we won't see barry back.. EVER!
but has never given given a clear answer to bart :P

Dan has NEVER lied. :p :D

[Vic Vega]

So let me ask this, as I am not that acquainted with the DCU in general (I tend to avoid it due to conversations just like this that make my head hurt)....what does the Anti-Monitor remember? And is Post-Crisis Superman a seperate entity from Superman Earth 1 or is he an amalgam of all the Supermen that existed pre-Crisis with the exception of Superman Earth-2, who remained intact, or is he just an partially amnesiac Superman Earth 1?

I know people say I'm overthinking it, but when DC lately seems intent on bringing this stuff back and bringing back Anti-Monitor, Superman Earth 2 and Superman Prime, it's not as easy to just ignore as it was before Infinite Crisis.

The Anti-Monitor presumably remembers everthing the way it happened in the original Crisis.

Post-Crisis Superman is what Earth 1 turned into, not a separate entity. The first Crisis is the point where D.C. decided to reboot that character.

His history changed so HE changed.

Marvel isnt that much better with this stuff. Try parsing X continuty sometime.

[Johnny Triangles]

The Anti-Monitor presumably remembers everthing the way it happened in the original Crisis.

Post-Crisis Superman is what Earth 1 turned into, not a separate entity. The first Crisis is the point where D.C. decided to reboot that character.

His history changed so HE changed.

Marvel isnt that much better with this stuff. Try parsing X continuty sometime.

With DC it's the whole universe that's a mess. With Marvel, it;s just one line within the overall line that's easy enough to ignore. As someone who read little 90s X-Men, ignorance of the X-continuity never really ruined the rest of the Marvel Universe for me. Also, these days most of the really confusing X-Continuity is just swept under the table or addressed in a cursory manner. No more stuff like Joseph the Magneto clone and Askani-son nonsense ever since Morrison's run.

[Vic Vega]

With DC it's the whole universe that's a mess. With Marvel, it;s just one line within the overall line that's easy enough to ignore. As someone who read little 90s X-Men, ignorance of the X-continuity never really ruined the rest of the Marvel Universe for me. Also, these days most of the really confusing X-Continuity is just swept under the table or addressed in a cursory manner. No more stuff like Joseph the Magneto clone and Askani-son nonsense ever since Morrison's run.

I disagree. If you read Batman, Flash or Green Lantern, remarkably little changed Only Superman, Wonder Woman, JSA and near non-entity Hawkman got full on reboots.

JLA changes pretty much were a matter of who joined exactly when but all the classic JLA stories still "happened".

[IzzySlash]

I think the whole Superboy thing is like Smallville, no tights but a mysterious boy that nobody can identify with amazing powers helping people. If there was a situation where Clark wore his costume in the Legion time and his civies in his time I think that'd be cool. The idea of 16-year old Clark wearing a full out costume and saving Smallville was always dumb. But 16-year old Clark wearing a full out costume and saving the future is cool. I think that's what there going for.

[Punchy]

This was a good issue, with fantastic art, and some good emotions from young Clark.

I still don't get why Johns is going for the 'no-one else could fly and I'm so alone angle' when he lives in a world with the JSA and all the other Golden Age heroes still active.

[IzzySlash]

This was a good issue, with fantastic art, and some good emotions from young Clark.

I still don't get why Johns is going for the 'no-one else could fly and I'm so alone angle' when he lives in a world with the JSA and all the other Golden Age heroes still active.
I thought they weren't active from the 50s till after the newer versions showed up.

[Kent Horton]

I thought they weren't active from the 50s till after the newer versions showed up.
Well, that, and Clark probably is also thinking of people his age. Kids.

[Action Ace]

This was a good issue, with fantastic art, and some good emotions from young Clark.

I still don't get why Johns is going for the 'no-one else could fly and I'm so alone angle' when he lives in a world with the JSA and all the other Golden Age heroes still active.

They didn't return to active duty until Superman's generation debuted. Which makes no sense to me with all the lives they could have been saving between the early fifties and a decade ago. Now if they just put the JSA back on Earth 2 so Superman debuts first in both places, this problem is solved.

[AdamYJ]

Considering that we're dealing with what is billed as the "Original Earth One Legion," Barry Allen is the far more likely option.

If we get the three Legion's together, I see Bart with XS and her Legion.

Whoever said Bart would be showing up in this story? :D I mean, didn't Geoff Johns hint at something about the "Legions of Three Worlds" during the Lightning Saga? And isn't Bart closely connected to the post-Zero Hour Legion? Also, maybe Bart's just got something special about him that Braniac 5 thinks is important to save their timeline.

Of course, I'm not sure the Legion we're seeing is a completely intact Silver Age style Legion anyway. After all, Starman's supposedly from that time and he commented on something about XS having a crush on Kal in an issue of Justice Society of America. He shouldn't even know XS. Then again, Starman is very, very confused.

We really can't know for sure.

[BubbaKanoosh]

meh. i liked it well enough, but i'm not getting the "book of the week" and "best Superman in years" vibe a lot of you guys are throwing around. i guess i'm just never gonna be able to bring myself to care that much about a Legion story. at least, not the "grown-up Legion" where Dawnstar, Wildfire, etc are involved and everybody else has lost he childlike innocence of the group from when they first encountered Superboy.

but i will say this, Gary Frank was made for this title. period. his Supes is what i picture in my mind when i think of Superman, muscular but not muscle-bound, handsome, athletic looking, but not so monstrously disproportionate that a suit and glasses couldn't maybe fool people into thinking Clark Kent was a different guy.

overall, some nice touches by Johns (loved the brief homage to the 80s robotic Brainiac, "Do i have mustard on my tie again?", the teenage Smallville scenes, and the red sun), some great art, and a story that has me intrigued...but it just features guest characters that i can not care about.

Oh yeah, for sure. Not the book of the week by far for me, but I agree with this statement.

Franks art is orgasmic.

[registers]

This is the 1st time that I've read a book with the Legion and I really liked them. I know that after OYL Supergirl is on their team. Are they the same Legion?

[Kent Horton]

This is the 1st time that I've read a book with the Legion and I really liked them. I know that after OYL Supergirl is on their team. Are they the same Legion?
Different Legion. The one in Action is the original Legion. The one with their own series is the third Legion.

[registers]

Different Legion. The one in Action is the original Legion. The one with their own series is the third Legion.

I'm not very knowledgeable on DC so help me out. Does that mean she's on a different Earth in the future then??

[Punchy]

I thought they weren't active from the 50s till after the newer versions showed up.

He should still know of the existence of such people, and since some of them revealed their identities because of McCarthyism, if Clark was that depressed about it he could track them down.

[Kent Horton]

I'm not very knowledgeable on DC so help me out. Does that mean she's on a different Earth in the future then??
Probably, yes.
He should still know of the existence of such people, and since some of them revealed their identities because of McCarthyism, if Clark was that depressed about it he could track them down.
Still no kids his age.

[Punchy]

Probably, yes.

Still no kids his age.

Superman shouldn't be that picky.

It just seems like a facile justification for the Legion's 'importance'.

[Action Ace]

He should still know of the existence of such people, and since some of them revealed their identities because of McCarthyism, if Clark was that depressed about it he could track them down.

Even more likely, the JSA (or the Martian Manhunter) would have tracked him down.

[Vic Vega]

They didn't return to active duty until Superman's generation debuted. Which makes no sense to me with all the lives they could have been saving between the early fifties and a decade ago. Now if they just put the JSA back on Earth 2 so Superman debuts first in both places, this problem is solved.

Even pre-crisis the JSA orginally disbanded because in the 50's the House Un-American Activities Commities attempted to force them to reveal their identities. They didn't want to comply and disobedience was unlawful. So they disbanded.

Starman spent part of the interim in an insane asylum.

Hourman would have been attempting to kick his Miraclo addiction.

And nearly all of them used the interim to raise thier kids to near adulthood.

The JSA might have very well felt that the world was in the capable hands of the likes of Captain Comet and the Challegers Of the Unknown and didnt feel the need to immediately unretire.

The REAL sticking point is the ages of thier kids...

[Kent Horton]

Superman shouldn't be that picky.

It just seems like a facile justification for the Legion's 'importance'.
It's the original reason for their importance. Johns is just keeping it. They were originally nothing more than one-story characters to show a young Clark there were others like him. Then they got popular.

[Kent Horton]

Even more likely, the JSA (or the Martian Manhunter) would have tracked him down.
Actually, MM did track him down, but decided to leave him be.

[Tremnar]

loved the issue. John's take on Supes is one I can really get behind. His frist arc on action actually had me worried for the character, and his currant one has me wondering how h will get out of this one as well. Any writer who can actually make me care about superman AND wonder how he will be getting out of the crazy situation he is in, definately deserves the credit he is given.

-T-

[registers]

Probably, yes.



Man this is why I could never get down with DC, their stories and histories are always confusing and conflicting. Has it been explained what Earth she's on and even is she knows??

[Mundungus]

It just strikes me as weird, because wasn't Clark wearing a football coat during Up, Up, And Away? I swear he was. Maybe timid Clark is what he's like before he meets the legion, and when he gets older (like halfway through highschool or whatever) he starts trying out for things, etc.

I dunno. He seemed like he was in middle school in the comic, but he could have been older.

[Kent Horton]

Man this is why I could never get down with DC, their stories and histories are always confusing and conflicting. Has it been explained what Earth she's on and even is she knows??
No to both. Brainiac is probably the only one that realizes she's from another Earth.

[registers]

No to both. Brainiac is probably the only one that realizes she's from another Earth.

Thanks for the answers bro. I definitely like this Legion, and hopefully we'll see more of them after this arc is over.

[ElijahSnowFan]

I definitely like this Legion, and hopefully we'll see more of them after this arc is over.

ElijahSnowFan approves of this sentiment.:D

[Johnny Triangles]

I disagree. If you read Batman, Flash or Green Lantern, remarkably little changed Only Superman, Wonder Woman, JSA and near non-entity Hawkman got full on reboots.

JLA changes pretty much were a matter of who joined exactly when but all the classic JLA stories still "happened".

Batman you have to figure out whether Jason was a circus acrobat with red hair and a nice disposition or a hubcap stealing street punk discovered while jacking the Batmobile. And why did Dick Grayson leave, was he fired or did he quit? Didn't read Flash or Green Lantern, so I don't know how much they changed. I'd say JLA had a major change because you really didn't know which classic stories happened, they were so full of retcons. First, what happens to all the alternate earth crossovers? Crime Syndicate earth gets retconned into being another planet. Which Hawkman was a member? That gets retconned into Carter Hall. Batman was a member, No wait he was never a member. There are lots of little changes and retcons that just pile up.

[Redpen]

Yes sir!! This Legion is badazz! :D

[JohnLynch]

Alexander Luthor implied in INfinite Crisis #7 after the creation of New Earth that Earth records now showed the existence of a Superboy in Smallville predating the first recorded appearance of Superman. Of course they couldn't explicitly use the name Superboy because of the litigation problems so he just heavily implied the return of the Clark Kent as Superboy of Smallville. Then Lightning Saga and interviews with Johns showed that Superman now also remembers a childhood with the Legion. The existence of a Superboy, a birthright origin where he grows up with Lex and a childhood as a friend of the Legion combined with the fact that Superman's origin has never been completely laid out post Infinite Crisis makes it clear that there are a lot more differences to Post-Crisis Superman and Infinite Crisis than simply reconciling Man of Steel and Birthright.Aaah okay. I doubt that we'll ever see a pre-Infinite Crisis Superman (although I think we could see a Earth-1 Superman if he hadn't died).

What? This Superman participated in the Crisis. :confused: Just like how the Post-Crisis Superman apparently took part in the Crisis. It's the same Superman but his history was tweaked, just like with the last Crisis.Except New Earth Superman and Earth-2 Superman were complete strangers. Whereas Wildcat from just after CoIE clearly remembered Earth-1 Superman. I think there's a lot more difference then simply background tweaks.

I was kind of digging this book until the "big reveal" at the end. Claiming in the year 3008 our Sun will be a red star is ridiculous. Our Sun will last like 4 or 5 billion more years as a yellow star. As the Sun runs out of hydrogen to fuse, it will start fusing heavier elements and the volume of hte Sun will increase by over a 1000 fold engulfing Mercury and Venus and more than likely Earth. If by some chance Earth's orbit was pushed back far enough to survive annihilation by the expanding Sun, the entire planet would be burnt to a husk of its former self, unable to support any life.As others said I doubt its natural. Every Legion of Super-Heroes has been underneath a yellow sun. I doubt DC would ignore this and the basics of physics just to have a plot twist at the end of one issue of Action Comics.

For those who say I should forget it all and just enjoy the current story: In no medium except for comics can I imagine people saying "Oh forget about trying to work out who this character is. Who cares?" I enjoy me some good character developments. I just want to know which ones this Superman has had ;)

[mikediehl]

I've liked Gary Frank's work on lots of past stuff, but his depiction of a very prominent overbite combined with a slightly wild-eyed look in almost all of the characters started freaking me out toward the end of the issue. In that two-page spread of the Legion, some of the characters actually looked like they were trying to drop a deuce while flying (notably, Timber Wolf).

[mikediehl]

I can't help but think this is the way Five Year Gap should have been done back in the day. From what very little we've seen, that's almost the level of change we're expected to infer in the future. The universe has gone from this bright, hopeful place to a darker, more corrupted era.

Of course, due to the intentionally vague use of time in "current" continuity we don't really know how long ago COIE was from Superman's POV. Could have been 3 years, could have been 7 or 8. That would be kind of interesting to establish just to get an idea of how long it's been since Superman has seen them.

[AdamYJ]

For those who say I should forget it all and just enjoy the current story: In no medium except for comics can I imagine people saying "Oh forget about trying to work out who this character is. Who cares?" I enjoy me some good character developments. I just want to know which ones this Superman has had ;)

Yeah, but trying to figure out all this crap will just make your head hurt . . . and possibly bleed. :p

As for who this character is: he's Superman. I know it's a very comic geek thing to ask which Superman, and figure out all the multiple earth stuff. However, I think the truth is . . . he's Superman. Whoever Superman is when you think of Superman, that's him.

He's a strange visitor from another planet who was raised by a kind couple on Earth and grew up to be a champion for truth and justice for all mankind. And at some point during his youth, he made friends with a group called the Legion of Superheroes who he hasn't seen for a long time.

That's all you need to know to understand this story.

[md62]

Looks good. Great cliffhanger with the red sun....

[JohnLynch]

As for who this character is: he's Superman. I know it's a very comic geek thing to ask which Superman, and figure out all the multiple earth stuff. However, I think the truth is . . . he's Superman. Whoever Superman is when you think of Superman, that's him.Can anyone imagine saying that about any other medium? Whose Rocky Balboa? Oh he's just whoever you think of. He's a down on his luck boxer, forget about all that other stuff. Whose Daniel Jackson? He's whoever you think of when you hear his name. All you need to know is that he's an archaeologist. Forget all that other stuff. Whose James Kirk? He's whoever you think he is. All you need to know is that he's starship captain who bangs aliens on a regular basis. Who cares about all that other stuff? Whose Luke Skywalker? He's whoever you think of when you think about him. All you need to know is he was Jedi who went bad and became ruler of the universe. All that other stuff isn't important.

That's all you need to know to understand this story.Right, if all you care about is this particular story. If you care about the character and seeing his developments over time, you might want to know slightly more then that. That's why a lot of people read comic books set in a shared universe and why crossovers get more sales. Otherwise everyone would just read What if and Elseworld books and ignore the rest.

[Ogre U AHole]

I liked the art. Superman's eyes are still a little too dark and piercing, but everyone's expressiveness was great.

Meh on the story/Legion.

[God-Man]

I liked the art. Superman's eyes are still a little too dark and piercing, but everyone's expressiveness was great.

I noticed how they made Superman's eyes look less intense on the cover. I think they even tried to give him a little smile too.

[carl kolchak]

I know that there are alot of people who hate the Johns/Donner arcs, but this is just a great time to be a Superfan. They're bringing back all the stuff that made him stand out, plus adding to the mystery.

Not as sure about Gary Frank. He exagerrates Clark abit, but his Superman is stunning with great facial reactions.

The Perry-Clark scene didn't bother me. Felt like they were channelling Birthright somewhat. Clark isn't popular, he's an outcast hard to relate to others. Oddly, this makes him easier to relate to for the reader.

[jsaving]

For those who say I should forget it all and just enjoy the current story: In no medium except for comics can I imagine people saying "Oh forget about trying to work out who this character is. Who cares?"
I think the answer you're seeking is that DC has changed its mind several times regarding exactly who current-Superman is and what he remembers. Immediately after Crisis, the goal was to radically revise his past history to ensure he was and had always been the last survivor of Krypton. That presented obvious continuity issues regarding Crisis in particular, and while vague references were made to Superman remembering something, it was never clear what he remembered or how much of a role he may have played.

Nowadays, that approach has been completely scrapped and they want everything people remember fondly about the character -- whether it be the classic Reeve movies, the current Smallville show, old comics -- to have happened more or less as we remember them happening. There are obvious continuity issues here as well since the current Superman is too weak to do some of the things he did in the old comics, but the intent seems to be, it all happened and we should be sensible enough to assume minimalist retcons as needed when he's pushing planets around and the like.

Which may not be a satisfactory answer if you're looking to find out *precisely* what happened and what didn't, but I think it does get at what they're trying to do at the moment.

[IvCNuB4]

Oops (thanks) still no Chemical King tho.

Technically, if Ferro Lad is still alive then Chemical King wouldn't have joined yet, right ?

[drastic_q]

It just strikes me as weird, because wasn't Clark wearing a football coat during Up, Up, And Away? I swear he was. Maybe timid Clark is what he's like before he meets the legion, and when he gets older (like halfway through highschool or whatever) he starts trying out for things, etc.

I dunno. He seemed like he was in middle school in the comic, but he could have been older.
That's a letterman jacket. It's only elusively portrayed as a jock coat in cliched fiction. Anyone can buy one, and guys like Clark can get a letter for being in band, glee club, choir, chess team, mathletes, etc.

[Matthew E]

Technically, if Ferro Lad is still alive then Chemical King wouldn't have joined yet, right ?

If you mean that one page with all the Silver Age Legionnaires on it, true, but that one page doesn't seem to be tied to any particular time. For instance, if Ferro Lad is still alive then Shadow Lass and Timber Wolf haven't joined yet either. So I think that panel is supposed to be just 'all the Legionnaires Superman remembers from the Legion's early days'. And I can't think of a good reason not to include Chemical King in that group.

[AdamYJ]

Can anyone imagine saying that about any other medium? Whose Rocky Balboa? Oh he's just whoever you think of. He's a down on his luck boxer, forget about all that other stuff. Whose Daniel Jackson? He's whoever you think of when you hear his name. All you need to know is that he's an archaeologist. Forget all that other stuff. Whose James Kirk? He's whoever you think he is. All you need to know is that he's starship captain who bangs aliens on a regular basis. Who cares about all that other stuff? Whose Luke Skywalker? He's whoever you think of when you think about him. All you need to know is he was Jedi who went bad and became ruler of the universe. All that other stuff isn't important.

Right, if all you care about is this particular story. If you care about the character and seeing his developments over time, you might want to know slightly more then that. That's why a lot of people read comic books set in a shared universe and why crossovers get more sales. Otherwise everyone would just read What if and Elseworld books and ignore the rest.

Okay! I'll fess up! I don't know who this is in the terms you're looking with! And the more I try to figure it out, the more I get confused! And you know what, I was enjoying the story until you started asking these damn questions and now I'm not sure that I am! All these questions are pissing me off because it's sucking the enjoyment out of this for me!

And no, no other medium does have to answer questions that way because superhero comics are the only medium that revises its goddamn history every twenty years!

And I don't know who the hell who Daniel Jackson is anyway, so it's a lousy example! :mad: :mad: :mad:

[Proud Texan]

My god, this thread is making my eyes bleed! :(

[Amoebas]

Technically, if Ferro Lad is still alive then Chemical King wouldn't have joined yet, right ?But Ferro Lad was never a member with Triplicate Girl either (Duo Damsel yes - but not Trips) - so (like Matthew E alluded) - it's just a cool splash page with every legit Legionnaire from the Adventure run (minus Chemical King).

[AdamYJ]

Okay, sorry I freaked out back there, but calling attention to this stupid continuity stuff is killing me. :(

[eggie]

Okay, sorry I freaked out back there, but calling attention to this stupid continuity stuff is killing me. :(

Don't worry about it...I get that way to sometimes when people are sooooo concerned with continuity or defining a character precisely or whatever...I say don't worry about and just enjoy the story for what it is, a fun super-hero adventure story with Superman in the future with the Legion and Earth with a red sun! Thank goodness Supes has a flight ring!!

[JohnLynch]

Okay! I'll fess up! I don't know who this is in the terms you're looking with! And the more I try to figure it out, the more I get confused! And you know what, I was enjoying the story until you started asking these damn questions and now I'm not sure that I am! All these questions are pissing me off because it's sucking the enjoyment out of this for me!Gees, sorry! I'll stop talking about it then. But this sort of thing is why I enjoy DC over Marvel, so trying to puzzle it out is actually enhancing my enjoyment.

[drastic_q]

You guys notice that the color job on Supes eyes was fixed on the actual cover? It looks way different from the preview image.

[Wright Blan]

They didn't return to active duty until Superman's generation debuted. Which makes no sense to me with all the lives they could have been saving between the early fifties and a decade ago. Now if they just put the JSA back on Earth 2 so Superman debuts first in both places, this problem is solved.

The better solution would be to yank the JSoA out of WWII, and move their glory days up to about twenty-to-thirty years from the present day. That way, the JSAers can remain at a constant state of "agelessness" as the modern hereoes have.

[SouthtownKid]

The better solution would be to yank the JSoA out of WWII, and move their glory days up to about twenty-to-thirty years from the present day.Out of every bad idea you've ever presented, this may just be the worst. Just horrible.

[Wright Blan]

Finally got my copy Friday at the LCS. What did I think?

1. Reading Johns' [W]ussified Superman is like catching your favorite uncle fooing around with your mom. Pretty painful to watch.

2. Hey, where's Chemical King?:confused: Yet another huge two-page spread wiothout him. First time I could reasonably pass it off as a mistake. But twice? And don't tell me he didn't fit in the time frame of the spread. He joined at the same time as T-Wolf did.

3. Didya notice the costumes Cos, Garth and Imra were wearing when they met the abomination that is the [W]ussified Clark Kent? Not the ones they were wearing in Adv. #247, are they?

4. Did somone forget that the Silver Age Brainiac was always an android? SA Brainy was decnended from his adopted son, Brainiac II (who may have been Viril Dox back in the day, but seriously, I can't remember, and it's 0100 hours and I don't really want to Wiki this up tonight.

[Skyrider]

Out of every bad idea you've ever presented, this may just be the worst. Just horrible.

I agree with this statement.

The whole foundation of the JSA loses so much weight if they're based in say... Vietnam, that it isn't even funny. It just doesn't work.

[Wright Blan]

Out of every bad idea you've ever presented, this may just be the worst. Just horrible.


Remind me of what you posted in about thirty years, when the World remembers the 100th anniversary of WWII, and DC is really running out of ways to explain how Jay, Alan, etc. can still be running around when they're all over 100 years old.

[Skyrider]

Who's to say they will be still alive by then?

[Wright Blan]

I agree with this statement.

The whole foundation of the JSA loses so much weight if they're based in say... Vietnam, that it isn't even funny. It just doesn't work.

Actually, Vietman would have been over for about two years if the JSA had their early adventures thirty years ago.

But honestly, I've always wanted to see an Elseworlds where the JSA's original adventures did occur in the Sixties. That would be (if you should pardon the expression) "So Cool".

[Wright Blan]

Who's to say they will be still alive by then?


The suits who don't want to lose any copyrights. :p

[caats19]

i can't tell if wright is joking. but i guess he's being serious. weird

[Wright Blan]

i can't tell if wright is joking. but i guess he's being serious. weird


About which point? :confused: :D

[Wright Blan]

But Ferro Lad was never a member with Triplicate Girl either (Duo Damsel yes - but not Trips) - so (like Matthew E alluded) - it's just a cool splash page with every legit Legionnaire from the Adventure run (minus Chemical King).

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd55/NACIREMAN2007/El_Nombre43855be54787e.jpg

I didn't see her, either. She was in the real REAL Legion, remember? :D

[Kenro]

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd55/NACIREMAN2007/El_Nombre43855be54787e.jpg


Damn how many boyfriends did she have?!

[Matthew E]

2. Hey, where's Chemical King?:confused: Yet another huge two-page spread wiothout him. First time I could reasonably pass it off as a mistake. But twice? And don't tell me he didn't fit in the time frame of the spread. He joined at the same time as T-Wolf did.

3. Didya notice the costumes Cos, Garth and Imra were wearing when they met the abomination that is the [W]ussified Clark Kent? Not the ones they were wearing in Adv. #247, are they?

4. Did somone forget that the Silver Age Brainiac was always an android? SA Brainy was decnended from his adopted son, Brainiac II (who may have been Viril Dox back in the day, but seriously, I can't remember, and it's 0100 hours and I don't really want to Wiki this up tonight.

Out of these three objections, I classify 3) and 4) as "minor details that we're better off without". But 2) may actually have some substance to it. How can you just leave Chemical King out of the group shot? He's Chemical King! He controls the speed of chemical reactions! That's no way to treat him!

--

Alan Scott and Jay Garrick will be around for as long as DC wants them around. Because their powers make them ridiculously long-lived, or whatever. But their origins belong in WWII.

Damn how many boyfriends did she have?!

Well, none, eventually.

[K-DoG7p7]

The better solution would be to yank the JSoA out of WWII, and move their glory days up to about twenty-to-thirty years from the present day. That way, the JSAers can remain at a constant state of "agelessness" as the modern hereoes have.
Uhhhmm.. no..
Its better to have the 3 core members being REALLY! ageless (they should be about 90 now) and the rest a mix of different generations..

[mikediehl]

Finally got my copy Friday at the LCS. What did I think?

1. Reading Johns' [W]ussified Superman is like catching your favorite uncle fooing around with your mom. Pretty painful to watch.

Thanks for that visual. I just threw up a little in my mouth.

2. Hey, where's Chemical King?:confused: Yet another huge two-page spread wiothout him. First time I could reasonably pass it off as a mistake. But twice? And don't tell me he didn't fit in the time frame of the spread. He joined at the same time as T-Wolf did.

Ah, the beloved "School for Super-Villians" storyline. I still remember discovering that one in the Blue Ribbon Digest reprint.

3. Didya notice the costumes Cos, Garth and Imra were wearing when they met the abomination that is the [W]ussified Clark Kent? Not the ones they were wearing in Adv. #247, are they?

Yes, I actually did notice that too. I'm so glad my complete Legion nerd-ness is not unique in the universe.

4. Did somone forget that the Silver Age Brainiac was always an android? SA Brainy was decnended from his adopted son, Brainiac II (who may have been Viril Dox back in the day, but seriously, I can't remember, and it's 0100 hours and I don't really want to Wiki this up tonight.

L.E.G.I.O.N. Vril Dox = "Brainiac 2" was always heavily implied (mostly by the readership), but I'm not sure it was ever explicitly stated. Matters little at this point, since who the hell knows WHICH Brainiac 5 reboot version would be descended from him. ;)

[Nobody]

I'm so glad I don't give a crap about continuity.

Anyhoo, I also usually don't give a crap about Superman or the Legion, however I really really liked this issue. Between "Escape from Bizzaro World" to this, I think I've read more Superman comics than I have in years...

[mikediehl]

Uhhhmm.. no..
Its better to have the 3 core members being REALLY! ageless (they should be about 90 now) and the rest a mix of different generations..

http://images.wikia.com/marvel_dc/images/thumb/0/0d/All-Star_Squadron_Annual_3.jpg/350px-All-Star_Squadron_Annual_3.jpg

Not only a great story back in the day, but offered the best retcon explanation of the extended youth/longevity of many GA heroes, including the remaining three that are the sticking point now in JSA (Lantern, Flash, Wildcat). Anyone who really wants to defend it can look back on this one and kind of ride it as long as they want, assuming they can first clarify it wasn't completely wiped out post-COIE. :p

[Wright Blan]

Uhhhmm.. no..
Its better to have the 3 core members being REALLY! ageless (they should be about 90 now) and the rest a mix of different generations..

That's if they were all at the age of 20 in 1939, though. I'd assume that the various Society members were all around their early to late twenties back in the day when they started their careers.

[Wright Blan]

Out of these three objections, I classify 3) and 4) as "minor details that we're better off without". But 2) may actually have some substance to it. How can you just leave Chemical King out of the group shot? He's Chemical King! He controls the speed of chemical reactions! That's no way to treat him!

Actually, I always liked Saturn Girl's first costume. Nice black, green and yellow colors.

--

Alan Scott and Jay Garrick will be around for as long as DC wants them around. Because their powers make them ridiculously long-lived, or whatever. But their origins belong in WWII.


I don't recall their origins to be really connceted to WWII in the first place. Very few of the GA DC heroes were WWII related, IIRC.