DUCK DEALINGS: TY TEMPLETON ON HOWARD THE DUCK [Archive]

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MattBrady

10-19-2007, 03:52 PM

<a href="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Howard_Duck/02/howard2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Howard_Duck/02/howard2_t.jpg" alt="" border="0" align="right"></a>by Chris Arrant

Don't look now, but the Duck is back.

Wait, we take that back.. you should look now – Howard The Duck is back.

Marvel Comics just released the first issue of his new miniseries, by writer Ty Templeton and artist Juan Bobillo. Howard is back, with Beverly, and they're taking on the world – as the world tries to take him on. It's Duck Season for Marvel's favorite furious fowl, and he's even garnered the attention of a giant headed guy from A.I.M.. and it's not M.O.D.O.K.

We caught up with Templeton to find out more.

Newsarama As the miniseries starts, we find Howard the Duck and his lady friend Beverly, again in Cleveland. What are they up to?

<a href="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Howard_Duck/02/HOWARDV2002001_col.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Howard_Duck/02/t_HOWARDV2002001_col.jpg" alt="" border="0" align="left"></a>Ty Templeton: She's trying to become a famous actress, and he's trying to make the rent by driving a gypsy cab. We don't know what's happened to Winda, or Bev's uncle Bev, or Doctor Bong (hopefully, stories for another day), but Howard and Bev are trying to make ends meet, and not be shot at.

NRAMA: "Not To Be Shot At"… that's something we should all aspire too.

For those who haven't followed Howard The Duck closely, the relationship between Howard The Duck and Bev the Human might seem weird. Can you explain how they "work"?

TT: Hmm....well, I suppose it's just like on Star Trek, where alien races from across the galaxy still manage to fall for Captain Kirk every now and then, no matter what planet they're from. It's more about a mutual understanding of the spirit, than interlocking body parts, right? Bev and Howard are each other's soul mates, then. Howard once rescued Bev from a crazy wizard named Pr Rata, who intended to sacrifice her to a strange intergalactic accountant god. You'd have to read the original steve Gerber story to get the full thing. But Howard sacrificed his best cigar, and risked his life for Bev, and she's never forgotten. Also: I think Howard rescued Bev from a serial stalker named Dr. Bong, who forced Bev into a marriage against her will. These two rescues are enough to bond Bev to Howard for life. Howard is bonded to Bev because she's his sanity. She's his oasis of goodness on this planet of hairless apes.

<a href="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Howard_Duck/02/HOWARDV2002002_col.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Howard_Duck/02/t_HOWARDV2002002_col.jpg" alt="" border="0" align="right"></a>Although they're somewhat "intimate", in that they share an apartment, and a bed, I'd not worry too much about the physical relationship. I highly doubt that much happens between the sheets, and I'm certain it's none of our business. It's bad enough what I'm going to do to Howard in this miniseries, I'd prefer to leave him a little privacy.

NRAMA: The issue opens with Howard having a peculiar dream sort of like that "dogs playing poker" painting, but with Monsters ranging from Man-Thing to Fing Fang Foom and the Thing. What brought this on?

TT: That would be telling. He's going to keep having that dream through the mini-series, and...if you're a Freudian, you'll be aware of the powerful messages hidden in dreams. Beyond that, I say nothing.

<a href="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Howard_Duck/02/HOWARDV2002003_col.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Howard_Duck/02/t_HOWARDV2002003_col.jpg" alt="" border="0" align="left"></a>NRAMA: While they're more than one group out to get Howard in this, central on that is A.I.M. and a big-headed super genius known as M.O.D.O.T. – Readers at home do not adjust your computers, that's M.O.D.O.T. with a T. Ty, can you tell us who M.O.D.O.T. is and what he's after?

TT: Mental Organism Designed Only for Talking. He's the ULTIMATE talking head. And what he wants is to talk about Howard, and to get everyone in America talking about Howard. By the end of issue two, MODOT has succeeded, and made Howard the Duck the single most famous being in the country. Like Britney Spears, added to Paris Hilton, multiplied by Anna Nicole Smith, times five. But as to why the giant headed MODOT is so intent on getting Howard's name on everybody's lips, and why he's dedicated to becoming the King of All Media (*now that Howard Stern is clearly no longer king...) is something you'll have to wait to find out.

NRAMA: What's it like writing Howard the Duck, as compared to your previous writing work?

<a href="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Howard_Duck/02/HOWARDV2002004_col.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Howard_Duck/02/t_HOWARDV2002004_col.jpg" alt="" border="0" align="right"></a>TT: Very much a mixed blessing. First off, I LOVE LOVE LOVE Howard the Duck, ever since I was a kid I've devoured everything Howard has ever appeared in. I dug the comics, the black and white magazines, the newspaper strips, even his fairly low-brow appearances in What The..? and CRAZY! I love Howard so much, I even like the movie (something that almost no one else has ever said.) So the chance to write dialogue and stories involving one of my five favorite Marvel characters was off the scale. However, I'm very aware of a large group of Howard fans who consider anyone who isn't named Steve Gerber working on the Duck, a form of blasphemy. Obviously I don't consider it blasphemous, or I wouldn't have taken the gig, but I get where these uber-Howard fans are coming from, and I'm disappointed I won't be able to reach them with this story. I think, they might actually like it when it's all said and done. The four issues build slowly (the first issue is fairly tame compared to what's coming up) and we're heading towards a big finale that Howard fans should enjoy. We give Howard a basic status change that he's deserved for years now.

NRAMA: What do you think makes Howard the Duck an interesting character to write about in this day and age?

TT: Howard is a witty misanthrope. That sort of character is always fun to write. He gets to shout and complain about the world around him (which allows me to shout and complain about the world around me, always delightful for a writer). We're living in a time of great social unrest...the war in the middle east, the war on drugs users, the corruption of the Republican party, and the spinelessness of the Democrats, the price of gas, the flooding of New Orleans, the destruction of the American reputation, etc. etc. etc....these are things that need shouting and complaining about, and Howard is the perfect vehicle for that. Our first issue of Howard is the slow warm up to the whole story where we get to know our characters and situations, but by the end of it, Howard is shouting and complaining about all those things that need shouting about. He's the ultimate bullhorn for a writer with a point. There's a famous saying by Jack Warner (of the Warner Brothers film fame) who once said, "If you have a message, use Western Union, don't put it in a story". I'm of the opinion, that if you have a message, use Howard the Duck.

<a href="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Howard_Duck/02/HOWARDV2002005_col.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Howard_Duck/02/t_HOWARDV2002005_col.jpg" alt="" border="0" align="left"></a>NRAMA: Howard had some appearances in ¬She-Hulk, but this time he's center stage in his own miniseries. How did you end up scripting the duck?

TT: I wrote an episode of Howard the Duck for the Civil War: Choosing Sides one-shot collection last year. The response to the Howard story in the collection was fairly strong. Lots of good buzz leads to another kick at the can, I suppose, and the editor, Aubrey Sitterson, offered my another chance to do the Duck. Who could turn that down? And the Howard appearances in She-Hulk were all handled by Dan Slott. When I came on board She-Hulk, we sent a character to Howard's homeworld (Duckworld) and we dealt with some of Howard's support cast, but Dan wrote the Howard appearances in She-Hulk. A bit of a tradition, as Steve Gerber himself, made Howard a support character in She-Hulk back when Steve was writing about the Jade Giantess.

NRAMA: And I'm not letting you go just yet. While doing research for this interview, I discovered www.hoverboy.com. What is Hoverboy?

TT: Hoverboy is a little miracle, is what Hoverboy is. I'd almost rather people just go to the website (www.hoverboy.com ) rather than have me explain it. But in a nutshell, Hoverboy is probably the greatest hero of the twentieth century that has been completely forgotten. He once had his own radio show, TV show, movie serials, toys, fan clubs and comics...but in the Seventies, the character completely disappeared, and is now, bizarrely lost to time. I was approached about a year ago, to work on a new Hoverboy comic and TV show, the first appearances of the character in nearly thirty years. If folks want to go to the website, they can click on a short documentary about Hoverboy featuring me, TV's Rick Green (of Prisoners of Gravity, History Bites, and The Red Green show) X-Men's Yannick Paquette, Natasha Eloi of TV's It Came From The Basement, and the staff of Mr. Comics nude! Who could ask for more?!? You also get to download complete Saturday Morning Cartoon episodes, movie trailers, old comic stories, etc. etc. We're delighted in the response Hoverboy's resurrection has received, and can't wait until fans get to see the all new stuff we're doing.

<a href="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Howard_Duck/02/HOWARDV2002006_col.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/Howard_Duck/02/t_HOWARDV2002006_col.jpg" alt="" border="0" align="right"></a>If you were a fan of the original Hoverboy, this new version will knock your socks off, and even if you've never seen a Hoverboy episode, the website will entertain you, that's a guarantee.

NRAMA: Sounds reasonable. Before we go, one last thing I wanted to ask was about your original breakout series Stig's Inferno – it's surely out-of-print these days, so do you have any plans to re-release it?

TT: I have already re-released it for free online. If you go to www.templetons.com and then click on the link to my section of the site (or go directly to www.templetons.com/ty ) you’ll find the first five issues of Stig's Inferno downloadable for free. No strings attached, I just want people to have the chance to read it. And Stig appeared as a cameo in the recent graphic novel Bigg Time, I wrote for Vertigo about two or three years ago. There are very vague plans to make Bigg Time into a movie, and I promise, Stig will appear in the film version, just like he did in the novel.

Someday, I hope to return to Stig for a new adventure. I've actually written one or two scripts over the years, just for fun. Someday, when I have the time, I'll probably produce them.

Howard the Duck #2 is scheduled to be in stores on November 7, 2007. For more information on Ty Templeton and his work, viist <a href=http://www.templetons.com/ty target="_blank">www.templetons.com/ty</A>.

The_Adventurer

10-19-2007, 04:07 PM

It looks funny. But Howard just looks soooooo wrong with his new bill. What's up with that?

The Guvnor

10-19-2007, 04:07 PM

Cool interview. I enjoyed the first issue more than I expected to and look forward to the rest of the series.

vbartilucci

10-19-2007, 04:17 PM

Ty Templeton = Comedy.

From Stig's Inferno, to those mad crazy covers to Secret Origins, to "Dissecting Mr. Griffin" in Wasteland, to Mad Dog to Bigg Time. He has not missed.

If I have to find my Canadian birth certificate, sneak across the border and seek him out in his own country, I will someday get a Norbert from him.

But it'd be a lot easier if he'd just come to a con near me.

jedifish

10-19-2007, 04:31 PM

I'm sure I'd enjoy the book as written by Ty instead of Gerber, but that doesn't look like Howard at all, so that kills any interest I'd have in the book. Too bad since it sounds fun.

BamaRainbow

10-19-2007, 04:34 PM

I have to say I had mixed feelings with issue #1. The WRITING was classic Ty Templeton, exactly what I expected (not intending that to sound as bad as it might read)--with the right mix of humor and drama. (Oh, there were a few places where the gag was a bit beyond even the necessary suspension of disbelief, but if it made me laugh--or just giggle--I'll live with it.) That was the good.
Now, for the bad (and, just to complete the movie reference, the ugly): The ART. Oy. (Or, maybe WAUGHHH!) For most of the issue, Bobillo's art seemed far more rushed than what I remember from his "She-Hulk" but I could generally live with that, but for the love of Ducky, every panel featuring Howard was absolutely horrid--that is to say, if the overall panel w/o Howard would rate a 10, his image would bring it down to a 5 (so one can imagine how a panel with only Howard rates). The redesign was a major mistake and whoever's responsible for it should be taken out and beaten over the head with the production model for the "Classic Howard the Duck" statue. (I am amazed that statue was authorized if Marvel was forced to redesign the character for the comics. The statue will still be coming out? After seeing the disastrous redesign, I actually felt compelled to order the statue.)
I had fond memories of the Max mini-series from a few years back and hoped that this mini-series could approach that one. The writing came very close, but the art (even allowing for the differing artistic styles) didn't--and it fared even worse when the Duck appeared.

iyamwhatiyam

10-19-2007, 04:40 PM

I'm sure I'd enjoy the book as written by Ty instead of Gerber, but that doesn't look like Howard at all, so that kills any interest I'd have in the book. Too bad since it sounds fun.

WTF? Why are there fanboys, God, why!?

threepwood

10-19-2007, 05:07 PM

The redesign was a major mistake and whoever's responsible for it should be taken out and beaten over the head with the production model for the "Classic Howard the Duck" statue. (I am amazed that statue was authorized if Marvel was forced to redesign the character for the comics.

There was another interview with Ty when the first issue came out (maybe on CBR?) and he posted in the forums that the redesign was completely Bobillo's idea.. he didn't know anything about it until he started to see the pages come in and it shocked him too, but he also said that by the last issue it had really grown on him, and I have to agree. Even looking at these pages from issue 2 i'm already liking it more as well. It will never be THE Howard, but I don't mind seeing someone else's take on the character. I mean I hated the version of Howard that Bryan Hitch drew back in those 4 old issues of She-Hulk he was in.. HATED it. Doesn't mean I still wouldn't buy anything featuring the character in.

And overall, I enjoyed the 1st issue. Yeah, it wasn't perfect, but it seems Ty is a huge fan, and I look forward to seeing what else he's done with Howard. It might not be Gerber, but as much as I love the original series, i'm not going to pretend that only he should be allowed to write the book. There were parts of the last mini-series that he DID write that I didn't really care for either (that whole Witchblade parody? And Howard turned into a mouse for almost the entire series? ugh.. but the Vertigo stuff was great).

Personally, i'm just happy to have Howard back and running around the Marvel Universe again. At least it's not Liefeld making the book :p

jedifish

10-19-2007, 05:08 PM

WTF? Why are there fanboys, God, why!?

Why doesn't Bobillo learn to draw a decent Howard the Duck. It's not even close.

http://i23.tinypic.com/2d1ak3d.jpg

Jed Saxon

10-19-2007, 05:15 PM

Liked the first issue very much.
I also liked the re-design of "Howard" from the get-go. But Bobillo's one of my favorite artists, so that's a given.

weaselwelch

10-19-2007, 05:49 PM

I liked the first issue. I'm getting use to the new look of Howard. But still he is missing the cigar. Wish the smoking ban at Marvel didn't include Howard.

Lot 49

10-19-2007, 06:21 PM

I enjoyed the first issue and I'm looking forward to more madness...I'm happy to hear that Ty will be kicking it up a notch...

I was also a little thrown by the redesign...I think one of the things that made Howard work was that he is a "Carl Barks" character in a "Jack Kirby" world...

That being said, I think that artistic license is something that comic readers have to deal with...

I mean, look at Steve Dillon's Punisher vs. Ariel Olivetti's Punisher...they hardly look like the same character, IMO...

skinnyboy23

10-19-2007, 06:29 PM

Fairly certain Disney made the redesign happen.

LuisMa316

10-19-2007, 06:51 PM

It looks funny. But Howard just looks soooooo wrong with his new bill. What's up with that?

They wanted disney of they're backs

Edward J Cunningham

10-19-2007, 06:56 PM

It looks funny. But Howard just looks soooooo wrong with his new bill. What's up with that?

I'm sure I'd enjoy the book as written by Ty instead of Gerber, but that doesn't look like Howard at all, so that kills any interest I'd have in the book. Too bad since it sounds fun.

Now, for the bad (and, just to complete the movie reference, the ugly): The ART. Oy. (Or, maybe WAUGHHH!) For most of the issue, Bobillo's art seemed far more rushed than what I remember from his "She-Hulk" but I could generally live with that, but for the love of Ducky, every panel featuring Howard was absolutely horrid--that is to say, if the overall panel w/o Howard would rate a 10, his image would bring it down to a 5 (so one can imagine how a panel with only Howard rates). The redesign was a major mistake and whoever's responsible for it should be taken out and beaten over the head with the production model for the "Classic Howard the Duck" statue. (I am amazed that statue was authorized if Marvel was forced to redesign the character for the comics. The statue will still be coming out? After seeing the disastrous redesign, I actually felt compelled to order the statue.)
I had fond memories of the Max mini-series from a few years back and hoped that this mini-series could approach that one. The writing came very close, but the art (even allowing for the differing artistic styles) didn't--and it fared even worse when the Duck appeared.

Why doesn't Bobillo learn to draw a decent Howard the Duck. It's not even close.

It's unfortunate that so many posters here at Newsarama have an intense dislike for Juan Bobillo's artwork. I want to state for the record that I bought Howard The Duck #1 NOT because I was a fan of the Steve Gerber series from the 70's or even because of Ty Templeton's writing. (I never heard of Ty a few months ago.) I bought this issue SPECIFICALLY because of Juan Bobillo. I came to know about this artist when he first began drawing for Dan Slott's She-Hulk. His stylizations were unlike anything I had seen in a Marvel comic before. At first I tolerated Bobillo's art because I love the character of She-Hulk and I thought it was just something to get used to if I wanted to enjoy the new She-Hulk book. But as I got more and more into Dan's stories, the more Bobillo's stylizations FIT the stories. I didn't realize how much I missed Bobillo until after he left.

BamaRainbow, is it really so important that Howard look like Donald Duck? (I can understand why the Walt Disney Company would sue Marvel about Howard's image and win a trademark infringement suit.) The She-Hulk I grew up with did not have Pop-eyesque biceps and incredibly tiny feet and hands. But just as Dan Slott understood the character of She-Hulk, Bobillo understands Howard. You only see an ugly fowl that does not look exactly like the character you first read in the comics. I see a grumpy wisecracking duck that is angry at the world and has little tolerance for idiot hairless apes like you or me---in other words, Howard the Duck.

WTF? Why are there fanboys, God, why!?

Exactly. If they had their way, every comic book would be drawn exactly the same way, and really interesting, unconventional artwork would never see the light of day.

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Shanobi

10-19-2007, 08:04 PM

It's unfortunate that so many posters here at Newsarama have an intense dislike for Juan Bobillo's artwork. I want to state for the record that I bought Howard The Duck #1 NOT because I was a fan of the Steve Gerber series from the 70's or even because of Ty Templeton's writing. (I never heard of Ty a few months ago.) I bought this issue SPECIFICALLY because of Juan Bobillo. I came to know about this artist when he first began drawing for Dan Slott's She-Hulk. His stylizations were unlike anything I had seen in a Marvel comic before. At first I tolerated Bobillo's art because I love the character of She-Hulk and I thought it was just something to get used to if I wanted to enjoy the new She-Hulk book. But as I got more and more into Dan's stories, the more Bobillo's stylizations FIT the stories. I didn't realize how much I missed Bobillo until after he left.

BamaRainbow, is it really so important that Howard look like Donald Duck? (I can understand why the Walt Disney Company would sue Marvel about Howard's image and win a trademark infringement suit.) The She-Hulk I grew up with did not have Pop-eyesque biceps and incredibly tiny feet and hands. But just as Dan Slott understood the character of She-Hulk, Bobillo understands Howard. You only see an ugly fowl that does not look exactly like the character you first read in the comics. I see a grumpy wisecracking duck that is angry at the world and has little tolerance for idiot hairless apes like you or me---in other words, Howard the Duck.

Exactly. If they had their way, every comic book would be drawn exactly the same way, and really interesting, unconventional artwork would never see the light of day.

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If the fans had their way, it would be well drawn.

Not generic "modern" coloring book stuff that isn't interesting in the least.

Edward J Cunningham

10-19-2007, 08:13 PM

If the fans had their way, it would be well drawn.

Not generic "modern" coloring book stuff that isn't interesting in the least.

Juan Bobillo's art IS well-drawn and the LAST adjective I would use to describe it is "generic."

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JLAJRC

10-19-2007, 08:35 PM

POWRSURG

10-19-2007, 09:18 PM

I pretty much agree. The art isn't atrocious, it just doesn't work for this book. The writing is great, though.

Actually, I feel the design works better for the book then a 'classic' interpretation of Howard would have. To each their own though.

RDFozz

10-19-2007, 09:20 PM

... is it really so important that Howard look like Donald Duck?... The She-Hulk I grew up with did not have Pop-eyesque biceps and incredibly tiny feet and hands. But just as Dan Slott understood the character of She-Hulk, Bobillo understands Howard. You only see an ugly fowl that does not look exactly like the character you first read in the comics. I see a grumpy wisecracking duck that is angry at the world and has little tolerance for idiot hairless apes like you or me---in other words, Howard the Duck.

...

Exactly. If they had their way, every comic book would be drawn exactly the same way, and really interesting, unconventional artwork would never see the light of day.

Personally, I would characterize the difference between Bobillo's She-Hulk and, say, Byrne's as a stylistic difference. The difference between Bobillo's Howard and, say, Howard as seen as recently as the CHOOSING SIDES book is more extreme.

It's more like, rather than minor exaggerations/distortions of the human form, Bobillo had drawn She-Hulk as an ape instead of a human.

Mind you, it's not preventing my enjoyment of the story, but it does take some getting used to.

jedifish

10-19-2007, 10:11 PM

ahh, never mind.

batlash

10-19-2007, 10:51 PM

can't...get...past...the...art... aargh...

Sorry. That's one ugly duck.

beta-ray

10-20-2007, 01:23 AM

As much as I liked the Donald/Daffy type bill, I don't mind this new Howard look (esp when Mike Golden does it)... he actually looks like a duck now.

BOP Fan

10-20-2007, 01:43 AM

Can't say I can envision Howard as having a position on the war on drugs-either pro -war on drugs like me or con. I just don't think he'd really care that much about a bunch of hairless apes destroying themselves with drugs (especially since he's kicked his own nicotine addiction...).

Best wishes,

Scot

MKF

10-20-2007, 01:49 AM

I didn't mind Howard's bill - never read the original, can't remember what he looked like when he appeared (I think) in Sensational She-Hulk way back when, which I think I've probably got somewhere... I dunno, he looked like a hungover, grumpy duck. Seemed fine to me.

I just didn't find the issue funny - lacklustre pacing, and what comedy there was felt forced. Which seems to put me at 180 degrees to everyone else; each to their own, I guess.

TheToileteer

10-20-2007, 03:39 AM

I looked up "Hoverboy." What a great concept! (Superman meets Bob Dobbs?) Hats off to his forgotten creators, way back in the 1930's. ;) Here's hoping that more fragments get rediscovered.

The_Adventurer

10-20-2007, 04:05 AM

It's unfortunate that so many posters here at Newsarama have an intense dislike for Juan Bobillo's artwork.

You miss understand my stance. There's nothing wrong with the art as a whole. It's pretty good. I have a specific grievance with Howard's BILL. That's it.

It's WRONG, and I don't buy the Disney argument. It just seems like an arbitrary artist decision.

The Mirrorball Man

10-20-2007, 04:06 AM

Why doesn't Bobillo learn to draw a decent Howard the Duck. It's not even close.
We're not even close to 1973 either. It's been 34 years, of course it's going to be different. The WHOLE WORLD looks different now than it did in 1973. Why should this be an exception, except in the deranged minds of those who want comics to be nothing more than an endless, unchanging instant replay loop of their childhood?

The_Adventurer

10-20-2007, 04:20 AM

We're not even close to 1973 either. It's been 34 years, of course it's going to be different. The WHOLE WORLD looks different now than it did in 1973. Why should this be an exception, except in the deranged minds of those who want comics to be nothing more than an endless, unchanging instant replay loop of their childhood?

that's the most convoluted rationalizing the change of a characters basic design I've ever heard.
It seems to boil down to "Old things suck, any change made now is automatically better because it is new."

Yeah, not a good argument.

heelmark

10-20-2007, 04:58 AM

Why doesn't Bobillo learn to draw a decent Howard the Duck. It's not even close.

http://i23.tinypic.com/2d1ak3d.jpg

Other than it not being 1976 anymore? Other than not wanting the disney monsters (um, lawyers) to crush in with a very large trademark infringement suit that they'd easily win? This depiction of a comic book duck looks like it could lend itself to more and better storytelling options. You can use facial expressions to convey emotions and moods. The old way just looked the same most of the time. Oh, and Bobillo rocks!
I like it. That's all that matters, right? ;)

Thank you, thank you, thank you Mr Templeton, for bringing Hoverboy back to life! This news is the greatest thing to happen to me in at least the last hour or so! It's a miracle, is what it is! :D :D :D

The Mirrorball Man

10-20-2007, 06:27 AM

that's the most convoluted rationalizing the change of a characters basic design I've ever heard.
It seems to boil down to "Old things suck, any change made now is automatically better because it is new."

Yeah, not a good argument.
That's your bad argument, though, isn't it? It certainly isn't mine.

My point was: not just wanting but expecting a comic book character not to change for more than 30 years is delusional. This is not a time capsule. Comics are part of the world. In the real world, the way people dress changes constantly, the way objects are designed changes constantly, popular illustration styles change constantly, architecture, design, furniture, jewelry, everything changes constantly. Styles evolve. Some of them become popular, some stop being popular altogether. There is no reason why comics characters should be the only exception to that rule. I'm very glad they aren't.

The_Adventurer

10-20-2007, 06:55 AM

That's your bad argument, though, isn't it? It certainly isn't mine.

My point was: not just wanting but expecting a comic book character not to change for more than 30 years is delusional. This is not a time capsule. Comics are part of the world. In the real world, the way people dress changes constantly, the way objects are designed changes constantly, popular illustration styles change constantly, architecture, design, furniture, jewelry, everything changes constantly. Styles evolve. Some of them become popular, some stop being popular altogether. There is no reason why comics characters should be the only exception to that rule. I'm very glad they aren't.

You clearly don't understand the very basic issue here is. This isn't about natural evolution of artistic style or changes in writing or changes in story structure. This isn't about natural change in a visual storytelling medium, this is about sudden and unnecessary cosmetic changes to a character's basic appearance. Changes of such severe degree that the character has become unrecognizable from the original incarnation as to look like a totally different character.

That is OUTRAGOUS and needless. This has nothing to do with artistic style evolution or "being stuck in the past". This is like having Wolverine suddenly grow to 6 feet tall, wear a purple outfit and shave his head.

The Mirrorball Man

10-20-2007, 07:02 AM

You clearly don't understand the very basic issue here is. This isn't about natural evolution of artistic style or changes in writing or changes in story structure. This isn't about natural change in a visual storytelling medium, this is about sudden and unnecessary cosmetic changes to a character's basic appearance. Changes of such severe degree that the character has become unrecognizable from the original incarnation as to look like a totally different character.

That is OUTRAGOUS and needless. This has nothing to do with artistic style evolution or "being stuck in the past". This is like having Wolverine suddenly grow to 6 feet tall, wear a purple outfit and shave his head.
I'm not sure we're looking at the same preview pages here. What I'm seeing is a short, cartoony, humanoid duck living among normal humans. As soon as I saw him, I thought, "wow, I've always liked Howard the Duck". It's just a stylistic evolution. The kind of dramatic and outrageous changes you're talking about did not occur.

Now is a good time to remember that the last time Steve Gerber wrote Howard the Duck, Howard was a rat.

The_Adventurer

10-20-2007, 07:08 AM

Now is a good time to remember that the last time Steve Gerber wrote Howard the Duck, Howard was a rat.
Yep, and it was freaking HILARIOUS. Gerber is a genius of social, artistic, and political satire. That MAX mini skewered everything from Disney (the legal action was going on at the time I believe) to DC/Vertigo to Boy Bands. I want more of that. Not this fairly generic gag comic they're pushing as Howard the Duck. Howard the Duck is not about gags. It's about subtle references and wit.

Peasily

10-20-2007, 08:15 AM

Does Howard get to avoid the SHRA because he isn't a human, and isn't bestiality illegal?

And, come to think of it, shouldn't mutants be exempt from the SHRA, as they are not homo sapiens sapiens, but are homo sapiens superior?

Spinja

10-20-2007, 10:26 AM

Part of what made Howard such an alienated alien in his original run, was the fact that he was both of a different species and a different genre from the other cartoon humanoids that (mostly) made up his world. He was a composite of Donald, Daffy and dozens of other wisecracking waterfowl that used to inhabit the comics, animated screens and funny pages of the multiple cartoon universes. He was the spirit of Carl Barks, Chuck Jones and Groucho Marx all rolled into one yellow ball of existentialist angst. The fedora, cigar and squat stature were classic cartoon shorthand for plucky attitude in a world that had taken itself far too seriously for all the wrong reasons. He was the right duck for the job.

I love Bobillo, Ramos, and all sorts of nontraditional comic artists. This version is a wild goose, not Howard.

Change is good, but this one strays too far from the original premise for me. Kind of like making Luke Cage a white accountant in a tiara.

If this was Ultimate Howard I could probably roll with it. ;)

heelmark

10-20-2007, 11:04 AM

He was a composite of Donald, Daffy and dozens of other wisecracking waterfowl that used to inhabit the comics, animated screens and funny pages of the multiple cartoon universes.

Maybe too close a resemblance? Maybe.....Well, maybe someone else has already said it better than I can. ;)

NRAMA: What's it like writing Howard the Duck, as compared to your previous writing work?

TT: Very much a mixed blessing. First off, I LOVE LOVE LOVE Howard the Duck, ever since I was a kid I've devoured everything Howard has ever appeared in. I dug the comics, the black and white magazines, the newspaper strips, even his fairly low-brow appearances in What The..? and CRAZY! I love Howard so much, I even like the movie (something that almost no one else has ever said.) So the chance to write dialogue and stories involving one of my five favorite Marvel characters was off the scale. However, I'm very aware of a large group of Howard fans who consider anyone who isn't named Steve Gerber working on the Duck, a form of blasphemy. Obviously I don't consider it blasphemous, or I wouldn't have taken the gig, but I get where these uber-Howard fans are coming from, and I'm disappointed I won't be able to reach them with this story. I think, they might actually like it when it's all said and done. The four issues build slowly (the first issue is fairly tame compared to what's coming up) and we're heading towards a big finale that Howard fans should enjoy. We give Howard a basic status change that he's deserved for years now. </A>.added the extra bold there

Not knocking you or anyone else for having your opinion. Seems strange to me, is all. So I'm just trying to understand it.

WOLVERINE25

10-20-2007, 11:27 AM

First issue wasn't bad. Can't say I'm a fan of the art style, but the story's good at least.

Spinja

10-20-2007, 11:46 AM

Not knocking you or anyone else for having your opinion. Seems strange to me, is all. So I'm just trying to understand it.

IMO, Howard the Duck really was of a particular time and place. And yeah, I know, that time was 30 years ago! This isn't a Steve Gerber HTD and maybe, for that very reason, Howard should look different.

For me, the big question is WHY? It's sort of like remaking Blazing Saddles without Mel Brooks. You could do it, it might be funny, but we already have a pefectly good movie by the same name that does have Mel Brooks in it. Couldn't we make a new funny western with contemporary references and sensibilities? Or do we just bring out more farting cowboys with better special effects? If we're going to remake a Mel Brooks film, it had better be in the spirit of a Mel Brooks film. And that's pretty hard to pull off.

That being said, the current Howard book picks up on some of the cosmetic elements of HTD and makes some cosmetic changes, but really misses the spirit of the original. And a lot of the spirit of that book came from the original design for Howard, which brought a classic retro cartoon look and sensibility to a traditional superhero universe. It crossed comics eras and genres in ways that seemed both out of place and absolutely right. It also gave a mainstream nod to the underground Comix scene that was going on at the time -- and I thought that was pretty cool, too. Having Gene Colan drawing a funny animal next to Spider-Man was a brilliant visual statement. And it worked, for me, the way that "Roger Rabbit" worked on screen. I guess we could remake that movie with CGI and a more uniform look, avoid characters like Droopy or Tex Avery's Wolf to avoid copyright issues, and even add Smurfs and Power Puff Girls if we could get the rights. And it might be a good film, too. But it would miss the fun, point and spirit of the original. It wouldn't be Roger Rabbit no matter what we called it.

To me, this Howard is just a duck. He's not the old Howard and -- more importantly --he doesn't seem to be offering anything new. The change of look seems arbitrary -- and while it may work or not work for some -- it doesn't seem to have been about anything other than change for the sake of change and/or litigation. Gerber's Howard flew in the face of complacency and corporate demands -- even protesting the fact that Marvel had arbitrarily upped its price of comics to an outrageous (at the time) 35 cents! between issues as Howard railed at a "Quacky Duck" comic he came across at a local drug store. Howard's very existence questioned the status quo as he looked like he had been grabbed out of one genre and thrown into another. It was clear that he was trapped in a world for which he was never made. I liked his change in form to a rat/mouse in the last miniseries as it was a smart way of getting around and/or back at the litigators who demanded a change in design and kept with the spirit of the original. In the Civil War one-shot, Howard looked a lot like cartoony old Howard (which kind of suggests this isn't all about legal action) -- but, then again, everyone looked cartoony in that version. And that didn't work for me either for the same reasons. It was like Howard and Bev had been taken out of the mainstream Marvel universe and relegated to the world of the Mini Marvels, Spider-Ham or Not Brand Ecch. Give me a manga Howard in an Alex Ross universe -- or vice versa -- and that might work. But, whatever changes are made, give me a good reason for that change and use that reason to tell stories. That's what the original did.

Maybe the time and spirit of the original Howard have come and gone. And maybe Howard's look should change to reflect that shift. And maybe Howard should represent something more relevant to contemporary readers. I'm not opposed to that. And if I want to see what Steve Gerber's up to I read his Doctor Fate in Countdown to Mystery.

But, if this bird doesn't look like Howard, doesn't have the spirit of Howard, and doesn't walk around pantless and smoke cigars like Howard -- why not just call it Michael the Goose and see if it flies?

MKF

10-20-2007, 02:53 PM

Does Howard get to avoid the SHRA because he isn't a human,
The Civil War: Choosing Sides issue showed Howard trying to register - he got turned away because the authorities had always denied the existence of a talking duck in the city, and they didn't want to go through the hassle of having to admit they'd been wrong the whole time.

and isn't bestiality illegal?
I'm sure five minutes after Tony Stark saw Tigra for the first time he was making campaign donations to congressmen to get an 'it's okay if they can walk upright and talk' amendment put through.

The_Adventurer

10-20-2007, 03:15 PM

I'm sure five minutes after Tony Stark saw Tigra for the first time he was making campaign donations to congressmen to get an 'it's okay if they can walk upright and talk' amendment put through.

If it's sentient, you can F*ck it!

Mezzrow

10-20-2007, 04:34 PM

Actually, I feel the design works better for the book then a 'classic' interpretation of Howard would have. To each their own though.
I agree completely.

I was a tender 12 when Howard popped out of the Nexus of Realities. Loved the original series. Loved Howard's attitude and look. And I've gotta say, I DON'T hate this interpratation. In fact, I really like it. when I first saw the art here on Newsarama, I was like "hmmmm..." but it fits. It fits the character to a "T". The bill actually looks like a real ducks bill, not a duck filtered through a Disney or Warner character designer. The bushy brown eyebrows give him a curmdudgon look and, to me, convey an attitude that is pure Howard. By the time I had reached the end of hte first issue, my thought was "This is Howard the Duck. No mistake."

One interpretation I really didn't like was Michael Golden's from the old B&W mag. I like Golden's art for the most part, but his Howard was way too "cute". He looked like he belonged in the cast of Bucky O'Hare. (Whoever was writing at the time wasn't blowing me away either) ((God, hope it wasn't Gerber... probably not. I don't think Gerber and Marvel were on speaking terms at that time))

As most everyone here has stated, if Gerber can't write the book, Ty Tempelton is a great consolation prize. I can't think of anything he has written that I didn't like and he kept it up here. And his interviews make clear that while he doesn't intend to try to be a Steve Gerber clone on the book, he was a fan and he knows what makes the character tick.

Give this book a chance boys. And give Bobillbo's design a chance too.

Change is good. ;)

Comic2read

10-20-2007, 07:12 PM

I liked the new Howard the Duck #1. It was funny. I liked how the artist drew Bev.
Howard's grizzled look didn't bother me.

DrOracle

10-20-2007, 08:36 PM

The_Adventurer

10-21-2007, 01:30 AM

Who cares that Howard doesn't look same as he did the 70's !?? As long as he looks like a talking duck, then he's fine. Bobillo's artwork is great, does a great job of capturing the nature of Howard. I was a fan of the old series and so far this first issue with Templeton and Bobillo at the helm was enjoyable.

I never understand this need for characters to look exactly the same. My God the New Captain America is going to carry a gun & knife, Howard isn't wearing his tie and hat anymore, why isn't the Hulk wearing purple pants anymore? Don't let shallow, surface level stuff get in the way of enjoying a book.

Again, this isn't about clothing, this is about his FACE, something that needs to stay consistent to make him recognizable.

And this isn't about looking the same as he did in the 1970s, this about looking the same as he did last year and a few years ago.

And the new Cap Costume doesn't suck because he's using a gun and knife, it sucks because it's a yawn inducing design with too much sheen on the breastplate.

DrOracle

10-21-2007, 09:41 AM

His face? He has the face of a duck. He's recognizable as Howard, because he's the only talking white feathered duck on the planet. The face of Sal Buscema's hulk is different from John Byrne's Hulk, is different from Tim Sale's Hulk. But he's still the same character, everyone knows the Green/Grey guy in the ripped pants is the Hulk.

Alexander Knox

10-21-2007, 11:43 AM

I can't believe people could get this bent out of shape about something so insignificant.

ZOMG THEY DREW THE DUCK BILL DIFFERENT WAY TO RAPE MY CHILDHOOD MARVEL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Your old Howard the Duck still exists in the Essentials book.

comixcollctr

10-21-2007, 09:12 PM

Howard looks too much like this Howard

http://cardboardmonocle.com/blog/fxsuits/howard.jpg