Justice League of America #13

[caats19]

spoilerrsss

hell yeah. that's i'm talkin bout. the wedding special was ok for me, it seemed rushed. this was really good i though. flowed really well, and the conversations just seemed spot on. john's "gotee" thing cracked me up. i loved how they all got taken down, it made sense. and the end made me go "wtf" cuz it was so sudden, but it worked.

[CaptainCanad]

The writing is fine, but the art was, quite frankly, bad. Seriously, DC, this is your only book that sells over 100,000 (ASBR doesn't count by virtue of lateness and suckitude), and that's the best fill-in you could find?

[caats19]

oh yeah i agree about the art. i want my benes back. the art looked odd at times, michael turner like.

[TCJohnson]

I thought Benes was doing this issue.

[Edogawa1983]

The writing is fine, but the art was, quite frankly, bad. Seriously, DC, this is your only book that sells over 100,000 (ASBR doesn't count by virtue of lateness and suckitude), and that's the best fill-in you could find?

actually doesn't people buy this regardless of the art?

[NatePetrelli]

This storyline just feels all too much like familiar territory.

Dropped.

[CaptainCanad]

actually doesn't people buy this regardless of the art?
I hardly think they'd want to find out whether that was true or not. Bad art on the company's best-selling title is hard to explain.

[Scoop]

I haven't seen it yet. Can anyone post a sample?

Art's very subjective.

[ednorris]

Liked the issue. A lot of nods to JLU with John talking about goatees and such, but it was enjoyable. Though I didn't care for the Sinestro Corps spoiler......






seems Fatality gets a Sinestro Corps ring, or is there something else going on that I don't know about?

[chap22]

not perfect, but certainly a fun read nonetheless. liked Superman & Mari's conversation, McD putting John and Kendra together this issue as a semi-tease for the cartoon fans, and BL getting some significant face time.

some good character stuff that was not overdone, plus some smooth action scenes. nice start, Dwayne.

[connorfan]

John Stewart made a strong showing here, and I really enjoyed the bit of verbal sparring between him and Black Lightning.

I'm digging the just as you round the corner feel. Instead of just having a villain pile up its nice to see now the Injustice Society ramps it up with more and more villains. Think you are ready to save the day... wait there's more.

I did not read most of Meltzer's run but I assume that the Vixen not using animal powers anymore has been going on for a while.

Ollie suited up and ready to go was a nice touch and tied the wedding special up in a neat bow.

The art is very 90s but I like 90s art so I was cool with a bit of posing, anatomical incorrectness, and just plan action orientated art.

I'm getting some nice vibes from this, reminding me not only of JLU but also abit of Morrison's run (under lock and key) these are not bad things in my book. I'm eager to see how this plays out, and if there are any more roster changes coming up.

Overall I'd give it an A- I'm not quite comfortable with the league yet but I'm getting back into the swing of things.

[chap22]

oh yeah, and it was nice to have a Roy-free issue for once too.:D :D

[donna_fan]

I did not read most of Meltzer's run but I assume that the Vixen not using animal powers anymore has been going on for a while.

Yes. She lost her ability to channel animals, and has been faking it by channelling the powers of other heroes.

[connorfan]

Yes. She lost her ability to channel animals, and has been faking it by channelling the powers of other heroes.

Thanks for the info. (what she was doing was in the issue but not that it was part of meltzer run per se.) btw it was shown nicely by the relay effect created through parisite attacking Vixen.

[Mega Gear X]

So the Javelin jet is in DCU continuity now?

[dorknerdgeek]

I'm digging the just as you round the corner feel. Instead of just having a villain pile up its nice to see now the Injustice Society ramps it up with more and more villains. Think you are ready to save the day... wait there's more.

Yeah, I kinda felt disoriented by the whole thing. That's awesome if McDuffie did that on purpose. I wasn't all kinds of crazy about this, but it was a decent enough start for McDuffie's run.

[Old_Chum]

I liked that Dinah kicked the piss out of Dr. Light.

Good to see her smacking people around again.

[Porcupine]

Who is the giant green villain pictured on the cover towards the upper left hand corner?

[IvCNuB4]

Chemo ?

http://images.comicbookresources.com/solicits/dccomics/200709/dcu/JLA_Cv13_solicit.jpg

[jackwtweeg]

No Roy, I wasnt pleased.

That said. I liked it because of how many different villians we are seeing (ie Shadow Thief). So the only JLAers not captured are Superman, Black lightning, Geo Force and the Flash correct?

[themonkey222]

No Roy, I wasnt pleased.

That said. I liked it because of how many different villians we are seeing (ie Shadow Thief). So the only JLAers not captured are Superman, Black lightning, Geo Force and the Flash correct?

Yeah I think so.

[Xeero]

DAMMIT, TWO-FACE WAS ON THE OTHER COVER??!?!?!? :mad: Damn, I may have to buy that other one, and I hate buying two covers for one issue. :o

But anyways, this was in fact a good issue, I really enjoyed every minute of it and I found the art to be betetr than McKone or whatever his name was who penciled the Wedding Special. It was just a blast reading and I loved the banter between John and Black Lightning. The only thing that confused me a little was Superman collapsing, what was that about? And also, although I loved the Hawkgirl and John relationship in the cartoon, I don't want to see them together in the book, it just seems... weird.

[adama]

Haven't read much about Black Canary but it's nice to see her kick the hell out of Dr. Light. Also, everyone contributed to the course of action but Canary being the leader and being shown as the Chairwoman was alos nice.
And, I really like the conversations between the members---- SupesxVixen, GLxBL.

It wasn't the best thing ever and "it's been done" but it was good enough that I didn't want it to end. I liked Melter's but.......well, I like this more.

[Lord Shiva]

No Roy, I wasnt pleased.

That said. I liked it because of how many different villians we are seeing (ie Shadow Thief). So the only JLAers not captured are Superman, Black lightning, Geo Force and the Flash correct?

IIRC, Geo-Force was taken out in the Wedding issue.

The only thing that confused me a little was Superman collapsing, what was that about?

Vixen was mimicking/siphoning Superman's power, when Parasite took out Vixen, he unknowingly drained Superman.

That's what I assumed.:)

[Fenrir]

A great start. The banter between GL and BL was great, the goatee comment was golden, and a good amount of action. Dwayne writes Superman spot-on.

Ah, Meltzer-free at last..

[Kent Horton]

No Roy, I wasnt pleased.

That said. I liked it because of how many different villians we are seeing (ie Shadow Thief). So the only JLAers not captured are Superman, Black lightning, Geo Force and the Flash correct?
Firestorm too. He's not technically a member yet, but he's going to be made one. Unless they took him out of the hospital when they got WW.

[donna_fan]

Did Wonder Woman do anything?

[caats19]

A great start. The banter between GL and BL was great, the goatee comment was golden, and a good amount of action. Dwayne writes Superman spot-on.

Ah, Meltzer-free at last..

yah, one i thing i liked was on superman was written. that was nice

[connorfan]

Did Wonder Woman do anything?

No they did not show her getting free. So she is probably still captured and being subjected to whatever that device we saw in the preview is doing to her.

[Kent Horton]

Did Wonder Woman do anything?
She was in one panel, locked up.

Best issue of the week, following Blue Beetle.



:D

[IvCNuB4]

Liked the issue. A lot of nods to JLU with John talking about goatees and such, but it was enjoyable. Though I didn't care for the Sinestro Corps spoiler......


seems Fatality gets a Sinestro Corps ring, or is there something else going on that I don't know about?

Yet as soon John wrapped her up in his green bubble she couldn't use her ring :confused:


Ollie suited up and ready to go was a nice touch and tied the wedding special up in a neat bow.
.

Wait .. I thought this issue followed the GA/BC Wedding Special ...

[donna_fan]

She was in one panel, locked up.

But how did ... forget it. Figures.

Best issue of the week, following Blue Beetle.

Flipped through it at the store. I'll have to take your word for it.

[Kent Horton]

But how did ... forget it. Figures.



Flipped through it at the store. I'll have to take your word for it.
She got caught in the JLA Wedding Special. The one that sent you in a tizzy. :p

[jrp001]

Yet as soon John wrapped her up in his green bubble she couldn't use her ring :confused:




Wait .. I thought this issue followed the GA/BC Wedding Special ...

well I guess timing wise...

GA/BC get married
Injustice League Arc
GA/BC finally getting there honeymoon -> kill ollie.

[IvCNuB4]

Or .. this issue follows the JLA Wedding Special which is before the GA/BC Wedding Special ....

[donna_fan]

She got caught in the JLA Wedding Special. The one that sent you in a tizzy. :p

I know when she was caught. Her heretofore unknown vulnerability to ice. Gotcha.

That's not what I was going to ask. It's not important, though.

[Action Ace]

It was a good start not great, but the art was even worse than Benes' usual lackluster level. I liked the interplay between John and Jefferson and the villains were used well.

[Kent Horton]

I know when she was caught. Her heretofore unknown vulnerability to ice. Gotcha.

That's not what I was going to ask. It's not important, though.
Everyone's vulnerable to ice, except other ice users. :p

And the intangible.

Ask anyways, you know you want to! http://www.smilies-online.de/img/sm/Engel/sm1_051.gif

[Action Ace]

Did Wonder Woman do anything?

No, but Batman called her and I quote "the best melee fighter in the world."

[donna_fan]

Everyone's vulnerable to ice, except other ice users. :p

And the intangible.

Ask anyways, you know you want to! http://www.smilies-online.de/img/sm/Engel/sm1_051.gif

Yes, because ice vs super-strength naturally leads to a victory for ice. Gotcha.

Anyways, what I was going to ask is how she's still alive? Wasn't Cheetah one of the one's who took her down?

[Kent Horton]

Yes, because ice vs super-strength naturally leads to a victory for ice. Gotcha.

Anyways, what I was going to ask is how she's still alive? Wasn't Cheetah one of the one's who took her down?
Ice freezes the muscles and fluids so they can't break free. :p

You do know even Superman has been trapped by ice before, right?

And they're saving her for torture, duh. :rolleyes: :p

[Fenrir]

Yes, because ice vs super-strength naturally leads to a victory for ice. GotchaSuper-strength vs ice doesn't necessarily naturally lead to a victory either. But whatever..

[McMonkey Nut]

I am a huge fan of the Meltzer run on JLof A, and with that said even though McDuffie is a drastic change in writing style, I really enjoyed this issue. There are things that still bother me like Hal being replaced by John, I am never getting over that, but keeping the deal with Mari going was cool, loved Supes was the one to call her on it! I liked the artwork, but I have always been a fan of Joe Benitez!

[Smoky]

I I liked the artwork, but I have always been a fan of Joe Benitez!

Same here. He is my favorite Top Cow artist, next to Top Cow founder Marc Silvestri that is.:cool:

I wish Joe were the regular artist on JLA.

[foxhound09]

A lot of people are being very kind. This was average from top to bottom. One more issue and I'm done.

[BigDamnHero]

So, was it the best the JLA has ever been ? No
Was it better than the Meltzer Run ? Yes

My reason is simple. I have always looked at the big team up book (JLA or Avengers) with the following thought in mind. If I could only buy ONE Super Hero book per month, I would buy the Big Team Up Book. That way I can get the most Super Heroes under one cover, and see some good Super Hero action, with Super Powers and Super Villains and lots of bang up fun. McD is delivering that through the Wedding Special and Now with his inaugural Issue #13. I get Super Heroes. Lots of them interacting, well written, and fun. I get Super Villains, and they are acting Villainous. I get Super Powered fights. Woo Hoo! Essentially I get what I am looking for from a Super Hero book.

I enjoy McD's take on the JLA, and look forward to more next issue.


Peace, Love and Super Heroes

[itsme]

Dissapointed. Maybe I read too much hype about McDuffie's writing, but I felt quite let down by this issue. The art wasn't to my taste either. I'll give is a few more issues though.

[TCJohnson]

I really liked the way McDuffie portrayed Black Canary. First person to do make her actually compentent in months!

Other than that, not without faults but really enjoyed it.

[Vic Vega]

It was an okay set-up issue.

We got to see Batman's escape-ology, Superman's decency, John and Jeff's camraderie and Super-Villian punch outs. I enjoyed the Meltzer run but even I have to admit that there's been more action in Mcduffie's two issues than in most of Meltzer's entire run,Tornado's Path excepted.

The contentious nature of these threads amuse me. It's seems for some that if it isn't EXACTLY the League that they personally want its garbage.

It's an O.K. start for what looks to be a fun run.

[Carter101]

While I like Meltzer's run with Ed's awesome art I am eally getting into Mcduffie's run. May of not had the best start in IMO but I really like how things clicked in this issue. I am looking foward to see how this plays out in the rest of the run. I wonder if Mcduffie is setting up a fight between Roy and John for Hawkgirl's heart, I could be wrong but who knows.
P.S. I really loved the art :)

[BornToRun]

Yet as soon John wrapped her up in his green bubble she couldn't use her ring :confused:

She's never struck me as a very good fighter, more just a really angry bitch. Maybe she has the ability to instill fear, but not the smarts to make the ring work.

[tnswman]

WOW!! McDuffie has to be on something....1st, he has to go and defend himself for not being biased towards black characters then what does he do? He makes this issue read like an episode of 'Good times'

COME ON! This is NOT the JLU Are you telling me that this is the 1st time John has seen Jeff since he shaved the 'fro off? Then, he totally ignores the ENTIRE Hawkgirl / red Arrow relationship and starts pushing John on HG.

Not to mention that John just joins the team and starts barking orders even though he is the LOW, LOW, LOW man on the totem pole. The Chairwoman of the JLoA is RIGHT THERE!! Not to mention Superman, I think they could come up with a game plan too McDuffie.

JLU was a cartoon that has NOTHING to do with the JLoA comic. We all know you can write a JLU episode. Why don't you SHOW us that you can also write an original comic too? I GUARANTEE you that this is pretty much where the JLU story was going before it was CANCELLED!

Plus, let's not forget...we had Hal preaching the word to the readers about John in the wedding special. That was a B.S. editorial form McDuffie and to use Hal to get his point out there was so totally WRONG! All it shows is that McDuffie can NOT write Hal or certain characters that do not fit his " standards"

Would ANYONE want John on their team? 1st, he comes in and tries to take control of everything, then he tries to steal the women away.

Mcduffie had ONE shot to prove to thousands of detractors that he was going to do something different. He dropped the ball. This is nothing more than the JLU now and it flies in the face of EVERYTHING going on the the DCU.

Oh well, maybe he is just still angry at Bruce Timm getting into his A$$ on the JLU DVD round table. LOL!! I love watching that because you can seriously see that McDuffie is about to cry. That pretty much told the world waht people think of his JLU ideas if they are not held down by a short leash.

[Mojo Rizin']

I liked it.

[tnswman]

I really liked the way McDuffie portrayed Black Canary. First person to do make her actually compentent in months!

Other than that, not without faults but really enjoyed it.


YOU ARE SO BLIND!! What Mcduffie did was smack her and her fans in the face. He allowed John to come into the team and start barking orders to EVERYONE while the CHARIWOMAN stood there doing nothing. No wonder she was pi$$ed.

This SIMPLY shows that Mcduffie will roll over ANY character that he can to push his "favorite" character down our throats.

He simply wrote Hal out of the picture as soon as possible.. He could not wait to start his run right off the bat by showing us how alpha hero John is.

does NOBODY care that the JLU John is NOT the DCU John Stewart? Is everyone just going to allow Mcduffie to push his favorites on us no matter what it does to continuity or previous story lines?

[Mega Gear X]

does NOBODY care that the JLU John is NOT the DCU John Stewart? Is everyone just going to allow Mcduffie to push his favorites on us no matter what it does to continuity or previous story lines?

Hal is starring in Sinestro Corps AND has his own book. Let some other Green Lanterns do something. John needs some life. He's the "Justice League" Green Lantern, while Hal is THE "Green Lantern".

WOW!! McDuffie has to be on something....1st, he has to go and defend himself for not being biased towards black characters then what does he do? He makes this issue read like an episode of 'Good times'

COME ON! This is NOT the JLU Are you telling me that this is the 1st time John has seen Jeff since he shaved the 'fro off? Then, he totally ignores the ENTIRE Hawkgirl / red Arrow relationship and starts pushing John on HG.

Thank God!!! We're tired of The Adventures of Red Arrow and the Justice League. He got a Lion's share of build-up and focus to show why he's here and why Ollie doesn't have to be. There ARE other Leaguers...

[chap22]

and hey, at least we don't have everybody falling all over themselves talking about how much better John is/will be than Hal ever was, like we did with Roy under Meltzer.;)

[Truthseeker]

YOU ARE SO BLIND!! What Mcduffie did was smack her and her fans in the face. He allowed John to come into the team and start barking orders to EVERYONE while the CHARIWOMAN stood there doing nothing. No wonder she was pi$$ed.

This SIMPLY shows that Mcduffie will roll over ANY character that he can to push his "favorite" character down our throats.

He simply wrote Hal out of the picture as soon as possible.. He could not wait to start his run right off the bat by showing us how alpha hero John is.

does NOBODY care that the JLU John is NOT the DCU John Stewart? Is everyone just going to allow Mcduffie to push his favorites on us no matter what it does to continuity or previous story lines?

Dude you need calm down. It was just one issue, give the arc time to play out and the writer to get his feet under him. Who knows maybe that was intentional so Dinah can smack him down later or something. It always takes a writer a couple 3 or 4 issues to hit their stride. Well unless it is Grant Morrison, then you redefine the League in your first 4 issues ;)

[TCJohnson]

YOU ARE SO BLIND!! What Mcduffie did was smack her and her fans in the face. He allowed John to come into the team and start barking orders to EVERYONE while the CHARIWOMAN stood there doing nothing. No wonder she was pi$$ed.



Wow, we must have been reading two different comics. Was there a special edition out?

It was Black Canary who came up with the plan on how to handle this. John Stewart merely suggested that Black Lightning should stay behind as backup.

And he has been a member of the JLA before. How is he the low man on the totem pole?

[donna_fan]

WOW!! McDuffie has to be on something....1st, he has to go and defend himself for not being biased towards black characters then what does he do? He makes this issue read like an episode of 'Good times'

COME ON! This is NOT the JLU Are you telling me that this is the 1st time John has seen Jeff since he shaved the 'fro off? Then, he totally ignores the ENTIRE Hawkgirl / red Arrow relationship and starts pushing John on HG.

Not to mention that John just joins the team and starts barking orders even though he is the LOW, LOW, LOW man on the totem pole. The Chairwoman of the JLoA is RIGHT THERE!! Not to mention Superman, I think they could come up with a game plan too McDuffie.

JLU was a cartoon that has NOTHING to do with the JLoA comic. We all know you can write a JLU episode. Why don't you SHOW us that you can also write an original comic too? I GUARANTEE you that this is pretty much where the JLU story was going before it was CANCELLED!

Plus, let's not forget...we had Hal preaching the word to the readers about John in the wedding special. That was a B.S. editorial form McDuffie and to use Hal to get his point out there was so totally WRONG! All it shows is that McDuffie can NOT write Hal or certain characters that do not fit his " standards"

Would ANYONE want John on their team? 1st, he comes in and tries to take control of everything, then he trys to steal the women away.

Mcduffie had ONE shot to prove to thousands of detractors that he was going to do something different. He dropped the ball. This is nothing more than the JLU now and it flies in the face of EVERYTHING going on the the DCU.

Oh well, maybe he is just still angry at Bruce Timm getting into his A$$ on the JLU DVD round table. LOL!! I love watching that because you can seriously see that McDuffie is about to cry. That pretty much told the world waht people think of his JLU ideas if they are not held down by a short leash.

QUOTED FOR TRUTH!

HAHA Awesome. This post made my day. :)

[tnswman]

Hal is starring in Sinestro Corps AND has his own book. Let some other Green Lanterns do something. John needs some life. He's the "Justice League" Green Lantern, while Hal is THE "Green Lantern".

Sorry, but in this story..the sinestro corps war is OVER. That's one reason why john is not fighting it as we speak. If you have not noticed, DC is not too concerned with waht other heroes are going through in their other books, so WHY SHOULD HAL GET ALL THE CONCERN????

DC needs to step in and say that the simple fact is that Hal WW, Sups and BATS are the STANDARD characters in the JLoA core book. from a marketing stand point, it makes PERFECT sense. Hal is back to being the Animated GL in The Batman, and in the new Frontier movie. when kids buy the new DC cartoon DVDs ofthe super friends and super powers, they see Hal. Hal hasa marketability that comes from him being the 1st Modern GL and the standard GL character tha tthe company uses for advertising.

A lot of people state that McDuffie is using John for racial reasons and to be honest, It would foolw Mcduffie's way of thinking, ( Look up his past before you shoot me). He really might be using his run to push more Black characters but it appears more that he is just pushing his un-used JLU story on us. The thing is, THE JLU is OVER...it DOES NOT TRANSLATE into the current JLoA comic.

I GUARANTEE you that the next white writer who comes in and brings back Hal will be called a racist and will go through HELL for the move.

McDuffie simply can not expand his skills outside of the JLU cartoon in regards to the DCU.

He might not pick the characters but if Marvel brings him in to write the Fantastic Four when they add 2 black members, and DC brings him in to wrote the JLoA when they have 4 Black members...isn't that kind of saying, Oh, we need to bring a black writer in to write these characters? That is sort of racist in my eyes. It is really insulting.

[bob_at_york]

A great start. The banter between GL and BL was great,
that was my favourite part of the issue. I have never really watched the cartoon so any nods to it would go right over my head but one thing I was a little bit disappointed in: Part 2? I have bought every issue of JLA in this run, I shouldn't have to buy a "special" just to get the full story. It is a small compliant because overall it seems like I didn't miss much but I didn't appreciate that touch.

[tnswman]

QUOTED FOR TRUTH!

HAHA Awesome. This post made my day. :)

Well, Don't worry, I will be attacked soon for being a racist because How dare I question McDuffie for ANYTHING he does.

[ElijahSnowFan]

*sits back*

*reads thread*

*remembers all those who hated on Meltzer's run for any of a litany of weak-ass reasons*

*sees similar complaints about how the McDuffie approaches some characters/concepts*

*smirks the smirk of someone who knew it couldn't be all that different*

*waits for prime opportunity to smack everybody with the "i told you so" post of the year*

*smiles wickedly at thought, truly savoring what will come to be known as "Revenge of the Meltzer Fans"*:mad: :mad: :D :D

[ElijahSnowFan]

in other words, all you Meltzer haters: freakin' zip it!:mad: :mad: yer savior's here, ya got what ya wanted, now suck it up and love the freakin' book now, ya damn whiners!!:mad: :mad: :D

[TCJohnson]

There has been more action in this issue then there has been in Meltzer's entire run.

[ElijahSnowFan]

There has been more action in this issue then there has been in Meltzer's entire run.

and people are STILL CRYIN'! wtf?:confused: :confused:

[donna_fan]

Well, Don't worry, I will be attacked soon for being a racist because How dare I question McDuffie for ANYTHING he does.

Yep. Of course.


And to ESF: Exactly.

[TCJohnson]

and people are STILL CRYIN'! wtf?:confused: :confused:

Other than the hypcritical Donna_fan and trnswman, who is crying? Seems most people are enjoying it.

[tnswman]

Dude you need calm down. It was just one issue, give the arc time to play out and the writer to get his feet under him. Who knows maybe that was intentional so Dinah can smack him down later or something. It always takes a writer a couple 3 or 4 issues to hit their stride. Well unless it is Grant Morrison, then you redefine the League in your first 4 issues ;)


oh, I would be all for allowing him to have time to hit his stride. however, his stride is already hit as this is NOTHING more than a continuation of the JLU and it simply erases a lot of waht has come before in the book.

Not to mention that the JLU John is NOT the DCU John. There HAS to be some sort of editorial decision to keep the stroy lines at least somewhere close to each other.

What if three are readers who buy from the news stand? what if the news stand did not carry the wedding special? Those readers will HAVE NO idea what is going on..they will have missed Hal being replaced nd running out on his best friend's party after delivering a great anti-racism public announcment.

McDuffie could not WAIT to push Hal out. He obviously did not want to even MENTION Hal when issue 13 hit the ground.

to do so would have taken away from all the chest beating that John was doing.

[Johnny Triangles]

Would ANYONE want John on their team? 1st, he comes in and tries to take control of everything, then he tries to steal the women away.

Hilarious quote. Gona make it a sig.


Oh well, maybe he is just still angry at Bruce Timm getting into his A$$ on the JLU DVD round table. LOL!! I love watching that because you can seriously see that McDuffie is about to cry. That pretty much told the world waht people think of his JLU ideas if they are not held down by a short leash.


Can you elaborate?

[Proud Texan]

YOU ARE SO BLIND!! What Mcduffie did was smack her and her fans in the face. He allowed John to come into the team and start barking orders to EVERYONE while the CHARIWOMAN stood there doing nothing. No wonder she was pi$$ed.

I am probably ONE of the biggest Black CANARY fans you'll find on these BOARDS, and I must HAVE been reading A different comic; EITHER that, or you possibly HAD your mind made UP beforehand and ARE projecting your own criticisms ONTO things that actually did not happen THE way you are describing.

Don't blow a gasket, dude. It's just a comic.

[donna_fan]

Other than the hypcritical Donna_fan and trnswman, who is crying? Seems most people are enjoying it.

How am I a hypocrite, exactly? I'm just curious.

[Fenrir]

This SIMPLY shows that Mcduffie will roll over ANY character that he can to push his "favorite" character down our throats.
YEAH! Thank GOD Meltzer DIDN'T do the SAME thing with RED Arrow.

Oh wait..

And, seriously dude, we in love with the Shift key or what? The core of some of your points are valid but you get the "Most likely to be frothing at the mouth while he posts" award for the day by capitalizing every third word or so (just imho and yes that's a bit on the hyperbolic side but you get the point, I hope).

[Johnny Triangles]

and people are STILL CRYIN'! wtf?:confused: :confused:


despite some negative comments, it doesn't seem to get anywhere near the amount of deserved hate Meltzer's run does.

[Vic Vega]

WOW!! McDuffie has to be on something....1st, he has to go and defend himself for not being biased towards black characters then what does he do? He makes this issue read like an episode of 'Good times'

Damn. I must've missed the "J.J. flies into space" episode of Good Times. Maybe I can Bit-torrent it.

COME ON! This is NOT the JLU Are you telling me that this is the 1st time John has seen Jeff since he shaved the 'fro off? Then, he totally ignores the ENTIRE Hawkgirl / red Arrow relationship and starts pushing John on HG.

As Black Lightning wasn't bald in his last apperance, yes. He just says Hawkgirl "you're with me". Hardly an invitation to look at his etchings.

Not to mention that John just joins the team and starts barking orders even though he is the LOW, LOW, LOW man on the totem pole. The Chairwoman of the JLoA is RIGHT THERE!! Not to mention Superman, I think they could come up with a game plan too McDuffie.

John has senority over Vixen, Hawkgirl AND Roy if you want to be anal about it. He's been an auxillary Leaguer since the Satellite Era. And his grand strategy was basically to note that somebody stay behind to guard the base. That's it.

JLU was a cartoon that has NOTHING to do with the JLoA comic. We all know you can write a JLU episode. Why don't you SHOW us that you can also write an original comic too? I GUARANTEE you that this is pretty much where the JLU story was going before it was CANCELLED!

Plus, let's not forget...we had Hal preaching the word to the readers about John in the wedding special. That was a B.S. editorial form McDuffie and to use Hal to get his point out there was so totally WRONG! All it shows is that McDuffie can NOT write Hal or certain characters that do not fit his " standards"

Would ANYONE want John on their team? 1st, he comes in and tries to take control of everything, then he trys to steal the women away.

Mcduffie had ONE shot to prove to thousands of detractors that he was going to do something different. He dropped the ball. This is nothing more than the JLU now and it flies in the face of EVERYTHING going on the the DCU.

Oh well, maybe he is just still angry at Bruce Timm getting into his A$$ on the JLU DVD round table. LOL!! I love watching that because you can seriously see that McDuffie is about to cry. That pretty much told the world waht people think of his JLU ideas if they are not held down by a short leash.

I must say you have an ....interesting take on reality. You DO remember that John was IN THE LEAGUE for a good portion of the Kelly run don't you?

You fail.

[Mega Gear X]

Sorry, but in this story..the sinestro corps war is OVER. That's one reason why john is not fighting it as we speak. If you have not noticed, DC is not too concerned with waht other heroes are going through in their other books, so WHY SHOULD HAL GET ALL THE CONCERN????

DC needs to step in and say that the simple fact is that Hal WW, Sups and BATS are the STANDARD characters in the JLoA core book. from a marketing stand point, it makes PERFECT sense. Hal is back to being the Animated GL in The Batman, and in the new Frontier movie. when kids buy the new DC cartoon DVDs ofthe super friends and super powers, they see Hal. Hal hasa marketability that comes from him being the 1st Modern GL and the standard GL character tha tthe company uses for advertising.

A lot of people state that McDuffie is using John for racial reasons and to be honest, It would foolw Mcduffie's way of thinking, ( Look up his past before you shoot me). He really might be using his run to push more Black characters but it appears more that he is just pushing his un-used JLU story on us. The thing is, THE JLU is OVER...it DOES NOT TRANSLATE into the current JLoA comic.

I GUARANTEE you that the next white writer who comes in and brings back Hal will be called a racist and will go through HELL for the move.

McDuffie simply can not expand his skills outside of the JLU cartoon in regards to the DCU.

He might not pick the characters but if Marvel brings him in to write the Fantastic Four when they add 2 black members, and DC brings him in to wrote the JLoA when they have 4 Black members...isn't that kind of saying, Oh, we need to bring a black writer in to write these characters? That is sort of racist in my eyes. It is really insulting.

Maybe it's the fact that Justice League hasn't been good since Morrison left (And that Waid era...and the Hitch era). Seems to be a trend that DC is using the popular media iconic versions of their characters to make them even more iconic.

Now since Hal has his own friggin book every month, he doesn't need to do a "Wolverine" and be in "Justice League" too. Earth has FOUR Green Lanterns. "Justice League" is home to this one, since GL Corps is Guy's book and Ion is in Countdown.

And what do you feel about Hawkgirl, then? Do you want her out too? And Jonn Jonzz? He's missing. This STILL isn't JLU...

[Proud Texan]

Damn. I must've missed the "J.J. flies into space" episode of Good Times. Maybe I can Bit-torrent it.

It was one of the best of the series. JJ built a rocket powered by dy-no-MITE and took off for the Dark side of the Moon!

[tnswman]

Hilarious quote. Gona make it a sig.





Can you elaborate?


Allow me to find which special feature it was...McDuffie was acting like a fan boy about one of his "gand ideas" and Timm just shut him down. Mcduffie sat there and you could see the toll it took on him.. I thought he was going to run off of the set.

It is GREAT!

[TCJohnson]

How am I a hypocrite, exactly? I'm just curious.
You are diana_fan, correct?

[tnswman]

I am probably ONE of the biggest Black CANARY fans you'll find on these BOARDS, and I must HAVE been reading A different comic; EITHER that, or you possibly HAD your mind made UP beforehand and ARE projecting your own criticisms ONTO things that actually did not happen THE way you are describing.

Don't blow a gasket, dude. It's just a comic.


Really, what did the Chairwoman do when it came to LEADING the team? She sat there and took wahtever John said to do.

[donna_fan]

Hal absolutely should be in the League. Replacing Hal with John is just an attempt to make the book like the cartoon.

It destroys the important dynamic that goes back to O'Neil/Adams. And, frankly, I'll take them over McDuffie anyday.

[chap22]

in other words, all you Meltzer haters: freakin' zip it!:mad: :mad: yer savior's here, ya got what ya wanted, now suck it up and love the freakin' book now, ya damn whiners!!:mad: :mad: :D
don't worry, i am.:p


oooo, action. in a super-team book. what a novel concept!;) :D

[TCJohnson]

Really, what did the Chairwoman do when it came to LEADING the team? She sat there and took wahtever John said to do.

She is the one who came up with the plan of action. John made one suggestion.

Really, did you even read the book?

[tnswman]

Maybe it's the fact that Justice League hasn't been good since Morrison left (And that Waid era...and the Hitch era). Seems to be a trend that DC is using the popular media iconic versions of their characters to make them even more iconic.

Now since Hal has his own friggin book every month, he doesn't need to do a "Wolverine" and be in "Justice League" too. Earth has FOUR Green Lanterns. "Justice League" is home to this one, since GL Corps is Guy's book and Ion is in Countdown.

And what do you feel about Hawkgirl, then? Do you want her out too? And Jonn Jonzz? He's missing. This STILL isn't JLU...

no, I have no problem with John being on the team if it is done in a different fashion.

remember, we had McDuffie stating that he would "open the can of worms" that is John replacing Hal.

So, it's ok for Superman and Batman, Flash, & Wonder Woman to have 2 or 3 books but not Hal?

John would have served the ENTIRE GLC better by being killed in the Sinestro Corps War. It would have made them a VALID threat and it would have made John a motivation for the other characters. It could have been done sooo tasteful and impactful.

[chap22]

It destroys the important dynamic that goes back to O'Neil/Adams. And, frankly, I'll take them over McDuffie anyday.
ummm, and that dynamic would be between Hal and Ollie, who hasn't been a JLA regular since...hmmmm....the early 1980s.

you fail as well.

[Proud Texan]

Really, what did the Chairwoman do when it came to LEADING the team? She sat there and took wahtever John said to do.


I honestly don't know how to reply. You only have one word in all caps, so I don't know what you're trying to say here. I think it's something about the meeting where Black Canary decides on a course of action and then other members of the team threw in their own suggestions. She obviously didn't feel the need to override them because, I don't know...maybe she thought that they were good ideas? Sometimes being a good leader involves listening to the people around you. Would you have preferred that she threw a tissy-fit, screaming that she was the boss and that John needs to shut up? No, that would have been silly and out of character for her.

I have a feeling that this will all be lost on you. I should have used more caps..

[ElijahSnowFan]

some random quotes from this thread: This storyline just feels all too much like familiar territory. Dropped.

I wasn't all kinds of crazy about this, but it was a decent enough start for McDuffie's run.

It was a good start not great, but the art was even worse than Benes' usual lackluster level.

A lot of people are being very kind. This was average from top to bottom. One more issue and I'm done.

So, was it the best the JLA has ever been ? No

Dissapointed. Maybe I read too much hype about McDuffie's writing, but I felt quite let down by this issue.

now don't get me wrong, people liked it, and they certainly did say so. but i, and others -- i see you, donna_fan! -- liked Meltzer's run.

people have the right to like it, love it, hate it. but one month after Meltzer's run, you'd think that everybody who was clamoring for a change would be happier than pigs in, well, you know.

you'd think they'd be coming into this thread expressing their unconditional love for this new creative team...and most of what i'm reading is..."OK start. could've been better."

so all i'm saying is: EMBRACE YOUR JLA SAVIOR, PEOPLE!:mad: :mad: :D

[Mega Gear X]

Hal absolutely should be in the League. Replacing Hal with John is just an attempt to make the book like the cartoon.

It destroys the important dynamic that goes back to O'Neil/Adams. And, frankly, I'll take them over McDuffie anyday.

I'd agree...except there are 3 other dudes just like him and on the same damn level. If there was only one Green Lantern like there was only one Flash, one Batman, one Superman and one Wonder Woman, then I could see it. But since John isn't some second generation lesser version of Hal, nor is he a sidekick or kid, and since all the other GL's has his own book, John has to go somewhere, so why not?

[Vic Vega]

Hal absolutely should be in the League. Replacing Hal with John is just an attempt to make the book like the cartoon.

It destroys the important dynamic that goes back to O'Neil/Adams. And, frankly, I'll take them over McDuffie anyday.

Wha...

Metlzer did that HIMSELF when he replaced Ollie with Roy. The League's Three Amigos are Hal,Ollie and Dinah.

There are no Three Amigos now as the Hal/Dinah/Roy dynamic is completely different. Roy is like Hal and Dinah's favorite nephew.

If you going to complain, at least be accurate.

[Fenrir]

Out of curiousity, since the accusation seems to be there (unless I'm misinterpreting the attempt here, and if I am then mea culpa), but which confirmed Meltzer haters are also crying and bitching about McDuffie's run so far? From what I've seen thus far in this thread, the opinions of those of us who have a history of criticizing Meltzer have ranged from "Meh, it was okay" to "It was great."

[Edogawa1983]

Hal absolutely should be in the League. Replacing Hal with John is just an attempt to make the book like the cartoon.

It destroys the important dynamic that goes back to O'Neil/Adams. And, frankly, I'll take them over McDuffie anyday.

I don't mind John taking over for Hal is there is a good reason behind it
If Hal is takin a bigger role with the Corp? but McDuffie's insertion of John is
too artificial and unnatural... thus it fails. but if Hal was replaced with John
with a good reason, I don't think anyone would mind that much..
except for the Hal fanboy that is...

Hal Fanboy:o

[bob_at_york]

What if three are readers who buy from the news stand? what if the news stand did not carry the wedding special? Those readers will HAVE NO idea what is going on..they will have missed Hal being replaced nd running out on his best friend's party after delivering a great anti-racism public announcment.
They did help me catch-up so it isn't as bad as you are saying. I am just saying I don't appreciate the concept.

[Mega Gear X]

ummm, and that dynamic would be between Hal and Ollie, who hasn't been a JLA regular since...hmmmm....the early 1980s.

you fail as well.

Ollie rejoined in the twilight of the last JLA series and Hal rejoined as well. It was brief...like 9 issues, but there they were.The Identity Crisis issues where Batman finds out the League wiped his mind.

[tnswman]

YOU ALL are forgetting that it was made VERY clear by Bruce Timm that the ONLY reason that John was included was for political correctness. You know It was not Hal that got the sharft for the Cartoon, it was Kyle and his fans.

you know, keeping Kyle as the JLU GL and bringing in Black Lightning or Steel would have made more sense than replacig Kyle with a character so weak that he had to be re-written. Every team needs an angry black man right?

So sorry, you can blame PC spineless lap dogs for the current situation.

It's insulting that a lot of people think that John is the only black character in the DCU. It is also insulting that for a team to be diverse, it has to be loaded with 2 races... what about Native Americans, Canadians, Jews, Legal Mexicans?

I guess they do not want Jackson and Sharpton on their backs.

[Proud Texan]

John would have served the ENTIRE GLC better by being killed in the Sinestro Corps War. It would have made them a VALID threat and it would have made John a motivation for the other characters. It could have been done sooo tasteful and impactful.


......oooookay.

So having a crazy Superman, a crazy superman-cyborg with a death wish, the embodiment of fear, an entire legion of Manhunters and people with power rings designed to create fear...and the Anti-Monitor does not constitute a VALID threat, but casually bumping off John would do so?

Sorry...I mean tastefully bumping off John??? :D

[Proud Texan]

... what about Native Americans, Canadians, Jews, Legal Mexicans?

Umm...are you suggesting that Canadians are a minority group in the United States?

[TCJohnson]

How am I a hypocrite, exactly? I'm just curious.

Because when people don't like things you like, you accuse them of being sexist and mysoginistic, you accuse them of not being real fans, of being overly negative and taking the fun out of comic book boards...and now you are ranting and raving about a comic you did not even read, accusing people of bringing racism into this to justify their views (like you did with sexism....)

[tnswman]

I honestly don't know how to reply. You only have one word in all caps, so I don't know what you're trying to say here. I think it's something about the meeting where Black Canary decides on a course of action and then other members of the team threw in their own suggestions. She obviously didn't feel the need to override them because, I don't know...maybe she thought that they were good ideas? Sometimes being a good leader involves listening to the people around you. Would you have preferred that she threw a tissy-fit, screaming that she was the boss and that John needs to shut up? No, that would have been silly and out of character for her.

I have a feeling that this will all be lost on you. I should have used more caps..

no, not the meeting, LEADING! She should have been highlighted in a better light. Instead, we have her taken back into the thinking that got everyone into trouble... She should not approve of mind wipes should she.

Of course, Now that she is a KILLER, she should also be in jail until the authorities to figure out what happened on the honeymoon ;)

[bob_at_york]

She is the one who came up with the plan of action. John made one suggestion.

Really, did you even read the book?
as I was reading it I did get the feeling that Canary was not getting the respect as the leader, I just can't remember if it was an isolated incident and if it was only one character doing it. I will read the book again and come back to this.

[ElijahSnowFan]

Out of curiousity, since the accusation seems to be there (unless I'm misinterpreting the attempt here, and if I am then mea culpa), but which confirmed Meltzer haters are also crying and bitching about McDuffie's run so far? From what I've seen thus far in this thread, the opinions of those of us who have a history of criticizing Meltzer have ranged from "Meh, it was okay" to "It was great." I don't recall those who have been vocal in their dislike for McDuffie so far as also disliking Meltzer.

now don't get me wrong: i'm not saying that that i have empirical data to back that up -- i'd have to go hunting in threads to find that, and who has the time?

what i'm saying, to be totally clear: the venom that was directed at Meltzer's run was absolutely ridiculous. it was.

if Superman and Vixen have a conversation, under McDuffie, it's great. if Roy and Kendra have one, it's wasting time and talking heads. just because of some arbitrary number of fights the Justice League is supposed to have.

well, the League's fighting, not talking. so where's the "oh, i loved this book! it was great! it's the best book ever!"

because, here's the amazing part: according to this board, Brad Meltzer simultaneously wrote the worst Justice League EVER while moving 120,000 units per month. that's one hell of a talented guy, to do that.

[TCJohnson]

Umm...are you suggesting that Canadians are a minority group in the United States?


Well, they are.

[tnswman]

Umm...are you suggesting that Canadians are a minority group in the United States?

Hey, Who is not a minority now..but no, that was thrown in there just to see if someone would take it seriously LOL!

But Native Americans, HELL YEA since I have a lot of NA blood in my veins.

[tnswman]

Well, they are.


OOPS, maybe I was wrong to think that they are not a minority.

[donna_fan]

ummm, and that dynamic would be between Hal and Ollie, who hasn't been a JLA regular since...hmmmm....the early 1980s.

you fail as well.

Wrong. YOU fail.

Hal, Dinah, and Roy, early 70s, GL/GA, look it up.

[Proud Texan]

Wrong. YOU fail.

Hal, Dinah, and Roy, early 70s, GL/GA, look it up.

No - he said that the last time they were in the JLA together was the early 80s. He's right.

[TCJohnson]

no, not the meeting, LEADING! She should have been highlighted in a better light. Instead, we have her taken back into the thinking that got everyone into trouble... She should not approve of mind wipes should she.


One of the defining characteristics of Black Canary is she is protective of her friends....maybe even overly protective. You threaten one of her friends, she does go a little nuts. That is her nature.

So when she saw Dr. Light, who raped one of her friends, then at that moment I imagine she would support doing a lot of horrible things to Dr. Light.

[bob_at_york]

I don't think Canadians have any problems with the lack of representation at DC, we get enough representation from Wolverine at Marvel.

[Proud Texan]

Well, they are.

I want more Swiss people in the JLA, and at least one Puerto Rican.

[Mega Gear X]

YOU ALL are forgetting that it was made VERY clear by Bruce Timm that the ONLY reason that John was included was for political correctness. You know It was not Hal that got the sharft for the Cartoon, it was Kyle and his fans.

Hawkgirl as well. For that female element as well as a Hispanic tone in her voice makes her sound foreign. (And Bruce Timm likes Hawkgirl) Yet you aren't asking for her to get booted. Why? John has been in the League before in the Kelly run.


you know, keeping Kyle as the JLU GL and bringing in Black Lightning or Steel would have made more sense than replacig Kyle with a character so weak that he had to be re-written. Every team needs an angry black man right?

So sorry, you can blame PC spineless lap dogs for the current situation.

It's insulting that a lot of people think that John is the only black character in the DCU. It is also insulting that for a team to be diverse, it has to be loaded with 2 races... what about Native Americans, Canadians, Jews, Legal Mexicans?

I guess they do not want Jackson and Sharpton on their backs.

Damn...were you on Meltzer's back when he included Black Lightning and Vixen??? Especially Vizen and Hawkgirl, given their popularity from the cartoon as well?

[jackwtweeg]

So Superman said eight were captured yet Wonder Woman, Batman, Roy, Vixen, Black Canary, John Stewart, Red Tornado, Hawkgirl, Geo-force are all gone.

Error?

[ElijahSnowFan]

So when she saw Dr. Light, who raped one of her friends, then at that moment I imagine she would support doing a lot of horrible things to Dr. Light.

about freaking time, DC -- oh, considering that now that that sick bastard's memories have been restored, he's been on the loose for, what, AT LEAST, oh, A COUPLE OF YEARS?!?!

[Vic Vega]

YOU ALL are forgetting that it was made VERY clear by Bruce Timm that the ONLY reason that John was included was for political correctness. You know It was not Hal that got the sharft for the Cartoon, it was Kyle and his fans.

you know, keeping Kyle as the JLU GL and bringing in Black Lightning or Steel would have made more sense than replacig Kyle with a character so weak that he had to be re-written. Every team needs an angry black man right?

So sorry, you can blame PC spineless lap dogs for the current situation.

It's insulting that a lot of people think that John is the only black character in the DCU. It is also insulting that for a team to be diverse, it has to be loaded with 2 races... what about Native Americans, Canadians, Jews, Legal Mexicans?

I guess they do not want Jackson and Sharpton on their backs.

I hate to be the one to use logic in this discussion as it's probably unfair to you not being well-aquainted with it and all, but in most american-made cartoons the producer have striven for diversity, remember G.I Joe? Remember Bionic Six? Captain Planet anybody? This could only be news to you if you were born yesterday.

Given your writing style that might be possible, however.

[Truthseeker]

oh, I would be all for allowing him to have time to hit his stride. however, his stride is already hit as this is NOTHING more than a continuation of the JLU and it simply erases a lot of waht has come before in the book.

Not to mention that the JLU John is NOT the DCU John. There HAS to be some sort of editorial decision to keep the stroy lines at least somewhere close to each other.

What if three are readers who buy from the news stand? what if the news stand did not carry the wedding special? Those readers will HAVE NO idea what is going on..they will have missed Hal being replaced nd running out on his best friend's party after delivering a great anti-racism public announcment.

McDuffie could not WAIT to push Hal out. He obviously did not want to even MENTION Hal when issue 13 hit the ground.

to do so would have taken away from all the chest beating that John was doing.

John was written like he always has been. He has always been a little bossy/man of action type. The cartoon did not make that up. He has been in the league before and I am sure it was part of the editorial plan to get Hal out of there with all he had happenign in his own book and the new Alph Lantern story and all that.

There is precident for John to be there. McDuffie is heading in his own direction but he is still working with what Meltzer left him as well.

[bob_at_york]

So Superman said eight were captured yet Wonder Woman, Batman, Roy, Vixen, Black Canary, John Stewart, Red Tornado, Hawkgirl, Geo-force are all gone.

Error?
Either he doesn't know about Geo-force or maybe he knows that nobody can truly capture Batman. :D

[TCJohnson]

So Superman said eight were captured yet Wonder Woman, Batman, Roy, Vixen, Black Canary, John Stewart, Red Tornado, Hawkgirl, Geo-force are all gone.

Error?


Technically, Geoforce was shown beaten, but it didn't actually show if he was captured.

[Fenrir]

Replacing Hal with John is just an attempt to make the book like the cartoon.

And when Kelly was writing John Stewart as the primary GL was he also trying to make the book like the cartoon?

[tnswman]

now don't get me wrong: i'm not saying that that i have empirical data to back that up -- i'd have to go hunting in threads to find that, and who has the time?

what i'm saying, to be totally clear: the venom that was directed at Meltzer's run was absolutely ridiculous. it was.

if Superman and Vixen have a conversation, under McDuffie, it's great. if Roy and Kendra have one, it's wasting time and talking heads. just because of some arbitrary number of fights the Justice League is supposed to have.

well, the League's fighting, not talking. so where's the "oh, i loved this book! it was great! it's the best book ever!"

because, here's the amazing part: according to this board, Brad Meltzer simultaneously wrote the worst Justice League EVER while moving 120,000 units per month. that's one hell of a talented guy, to do that.

I bet you anything that Mdcuffie has NOWHERE near those numbers. He might at 1st but the book will Lose readers Is it Hal? Is it that Mcduffie has a bad track record? we shall see.

[TCJohnson]

I want more Swiss people in the JLA, and at least one Puerto Rican.


Vibe is still dead, right?

[Mega Gear X]

And when Kelly was writing John Stewart as the primary GL was he also trying to make the book like the cartoon?

And when Meltzer was writing JLA and adding Vixen and Hawkgirl, was he also trying to make the book like the cartoon?

[ElijahSnowFan]

since again, i'm obviously one of few people who could give a damn less about which Green Lantern is in the League, can ANYBODY explain to me why it has to be one or the other?

why can't they both serve and go on various missions, have Monitor Duty, all that? seriously -- why can't that happen? seriously, think about it for a second.

what, would having two GLs active in the Justice League at the same time disrupt the space/time continuum?

God, that might be one of the stupidest "understandings" that i've ever read in comics.

[Proud Texan]

why can't they both serve and go on various missions, have Monitor Duty, all that? seriously -- why can't that happen? seriously, think about it for a second.


psst....that's exactly what they're doing! ;)

[Proud Texan]

Vibe is still dead, right?

Yes. I think that we should have a protest march.

[ElijahSnowFan]

psst....that's exactly what they're doing! ;)

i know that's what they SAID, but let's see if that's what actually HAPPENS -- because that definitely feels like McDuffie was saying, "i don't love you anymore and this relationship is over, but we can still be friends.":D :D

[tnswman]

I hate to be the one to use logic in this discussion as it's probably unfair to you not being well-aquainted with it and all, but in most american-made cartoons the producer have striven for diversity, remember G.I Joe? Remember Bionic Six? Captain Planet anybody? This could only be news to you if you were born yesterday.

Given your writing style that might be possible, however.


Obviously, you are the one who can not understand simple points and seeing how you TOTALLY MISSED the point that They could have maintained DIVERSITY by using any number of Black Characters while following along with Kyle.

Was that easier for you to understand? Did you get the point that Diversity is not defined by John Stewart alone?

It is also VERY easy to create a cartoon team that is diverse. However, when you use characters such as the JLA, you kind of have to stay on a certain track.

Kyle was already introduced in the Superman animated show. the SAME as Dr. Fate. So, don't give me the idea that the Superman show can not translate to the JLU.

Was that easy enough for you to understand? Once again, John Stewart is NOT the only black character in the DCU and at the time, what was he doing in the comics again? There were FAR better characters that could have been used.

[Mega Gear X]

since again, i'm obviously one of few people who could give a damn less about which Green Lantern is in the League, can ANYBODY explain to me why it has to be one or the other?

why can't they both serve and go on various missions, have Monitor Duty, all that? seriously -- why can't that happen? seriously, think about it for a second.

what, would having two GLs active in the Justice League at the same time disrupt the space/time continuum?

God, that might be one of the stupidest "understandings" that i've ever read in comics.

Black Green Lantern from cartoon (nevermind he was in the comic book run until Identity Crisis, and Melzer included Hawkgirl and Vixen in the League)+ Black Writer from cartoon now writing comic book=An agenda to turn JLA into cartoon version with prominent Black hero running things

[tnswman]

You know how can anyone say Oh, Hal has to be in his book because of the upcoming Alpha Lantern story, or due to the Sin War? JOHN is right there too! He is one of the main characters inthe Alpha Lantern story if you read the solicitations. So, I really think that this idea is invalid.

[ElijahSnowFan]

Black Green Lantern from cartoon (nevermind he was in the comic book run until Identity Crisis, and Melzer included Hawkgirl and Vixen in the League)+ Black Writer from cartoon now writing comic book=An agenda to turn JLA into cartoon version with prominent Black hero running things

i get that -- and whether it's true or not, that's definitely what it looks like, and it's a uncomfortable feeling.

so, why not have both of them in the book at the same time? it doesn't lessen either character, and both of them have a nice number of fans who would be happy.

because, bottom line: football teams have more than one wide receiver, more than one running back, more than one linebacker. and they all play at the same time.

why can't both Green Lanterns get out there at the same time and whip somebody's ass? why would that be a bad thing?:confused:

[chap22]

Ollie rejoined in the twilight of the last JLA series and Hal rejoined as well. It was brief...like 9 issues, but there they were.The Identity Crisis issues where Batman finds out the League wiped his mind.
i'm not sure they really were considered "part" of the League in Crisis of Conscience (not sure there really was officially a roster in that arc, just a whole bunch of former and current Leaguers interacting based on what was happening), and the Harras-penned atrocity NEVER happened. never, you hear me?????????

[ElijahSnowFan]

the Harras-penned atrocity NEVER happened. never, you hear me?????????

Jesus, Councilor -- warn a guy before you mention that name and that arc! my eyes just started to bleed!:mad: :mad: :mad:

[Mega Gear X]

Was that easy enough for you to understand? Once again, John Stewart is NOT the only black character in the DCU and at the time, what was he doing in the comics again? There were FAR better characters that could have been used.

Green Lanterns who aren't busy? There are four characters of equal power here. No one's a sidekick and they are all doing something in the DCU currently without being in limbo.

Hal=GREEN LANTERN
Kyle=COUNTDOWN
Guy=GREEN LANTERN CORPS

John=JUSTICE LEAGUE AMERICA

[Vic Vega]

since again, i'm obviously one of few people who could give a damn less about which Green Lantern is in the League, can ANYBODY explain to me why it has to be one or the other?

why can't they both serve and go on various missions, have Monitor Duty, all that? seriously -- why can't that happen? seriously, think about it for a second.

what, would having two GLs active in the Justice League at the same time disrupt the space/time continuum?

God, that might be one of the stupidest "understandings" that i've ever read in comics.

If you as writer have 2 guys on a team that do exactly the same thing its like you wasting a team slot that could have been to add something different.

The same would hold true for Supes/Kara, Ollie/Roy or Batman/Nightwing. That kind of thing only works in the Legion where the roster is so HUGE that dupilication wont kill the variety of the characters depicted.

Besides 1) As it is, its strains credulity that the League EVER loses at ALL. Adding 2 G.L. should make them omnipotent. 2) If the League is 24 hour a day commitment and so is G.L.ing the arrangement actually makes sense. The Guardians have punhished Hal before for paying too much attention to earth at the expense of his sector. The League is a big reason why that was the case.

[tnswman]

Black Green Lantern from cartoon (nevermind he was in the comic book run until Identity Crisis, and Melzer included Hawkgirl and Vixen in the League)+ Black Writer from cartoon now writing comic book=An agenda to turn JLA into cartoon version with prominent Black hero running things


it seems to me that Kyle was in the JLA until they pushed him out to bring i John to make the Comic more like the Animated DCU

If they did that today, Hal would be the GL since he is the ANIMATED GL in 2 seperate cartoons. However, McDuffie would not want that connection would he.

He is like the old high school quarter back that still wears his Jersey when he is 40. THE JLU is OVER.. Move along PLEASE!!!

[Mega Gear X]

why can't both Green Lanterns get out there at the same time and whip somebody's ass? why would that be a bad thing?:confused:

LOL, have all four of them on the Justice League all at once.:rolleyes:

[Kenro]

i'm not sure they really were considered "part" of the League in Crisis of Conscience (not sure there really was officially a roster in that arc, just a whole bunch of former and current Leaguers interacting based on what was happening), and the Harras-penned atrocity NEVER happened. never, you hear me?????????

What Harras-penned atrocity? ;)

[chap22]

What Harras-penned atrocity? ;)
exactly. Kenro gets it.;)

[Proud Texan]

I say get rid of both Hal and John and bring back the one, true Lantern: GUY @$&$ING GARDNER!!!


All Hail Honor Lantern Gardner!!!

[ElijahSnowFan]

If you as writer have 2 guys on a team that do exactly the same thing its like you wasting a team slot that could have been to add something different.

The same would hold true for Supes/Kara, Ollie/Roy or Batman/Nightwing. That kind of thing only works in the Legion where the roster is so HUGE that dupilication wont kill the variety of the characters depicted.

Besides 1) As it is, its strains credulity that the League EVER loses at ALL. Adding 2 G.L. should make them omnipotent. 2) If the League is 24 hour a day commitment and so is G.L.ing the arrangement actually makes sense. The Guardians have punhished Hal before for paying too much attention to earth at the expense of his sector. The League is a big reason why that was the case.

and i think that's weak writing, because it's the character interaction that matters, not what they do.

and look at it this way: if i'm actually in the League, do you think they're saying, "hey, guys. we've got two Green Lanterns on the roster, and if we go out into the field together, we're too powerful -- yeah, i know Doctor Light's trying to kill us and all, but gee, we need some diversification. can we get Nemesis on the line, so his diverse, non-powered ass can cover my back just in case Sinestro pops up behind me on a mission?"

to me, the point of the League IS to overpower opponents.

[Proud Texan]

exactly. Kenro gets it.;)

Good. He can keep it. Now let us never speak of this again.

Sorry Kenro, you got the short straw... :p

[chap22]

I say get rid of both Hal and John and bring back the one, true Lantern: _______________!!!


All Hail Honor Lantern __________!!!

G'Nort. you meant to say: G'Nort.

;) :D

[Mega Gear X]

it seems to me that Kyle was in the JLA until they pushed him out to bring i John to make the Comic more like the Animated DCU

If they did that today, Hal would be the GL since he is the ANIMATED GL in 2 seperate cartoons. However, McDuffie would not want that connection would he.

He is like the old high school quarter back that still wears his Jersey when he is 40. THE JLU is OVER.. Move along PLEASE!!!

But so is Hawkgirl and Vixen. So do they go as well? Replace Hawkgirl with HawkMAN since he's on The Batman and switch Vixen with Martian Manhunter who's also on those two cartoons you mention?

Why's John so special in this? Meltzer started it when he brought over Hawkgirl and Vixen.

[Proud Texan]

G'Nort. you meant to say: G'Nort.

;) :D


G'nort can't do it. He's too busy killing the New Gods.


Oh ____ - the above sentence contains SPOILERS!!!!

[Vic Vega]

Obviously, you are the one who can not understand simple points and seeing how you TOTALLY MISSED the point that They could have maintained DIVERSITY by using any number of Black Characters while following along with Kyle.

Was that easier for you to understand? Did you get the point that Diversity is not defined by John Stewart alone?

It is also VERY easy to create a cartoon team that is diverse. However, when you use characters such as the JLA, you kind of have to stay on a certain track.

Kyle was already introduced in the Superman animated show. the SAME as Dr. Fate. So, don't give me the idea that the Superman show can not translate to the JLU.

Was that easy enough for you to understand? Once again, John Stewart is NOT the only black character in the DCU and at the time, what was he doing in the comics again? There were FAR better characters that could have been used.

Who Apache Chief? El Dorado? Black Vulcan? They never appeared in any D.C comic and may very well be owned by Hanna-Barbera.

John's been around since the sixties. He's been around longer than Vixen. Had his own comic.

D.C. isn't using Black Lightning in any cartoon because they might actually have to PAY his creator royalties (there is an ongoing dispute there).

By all means continue to rant. You amuse me.

[tnswman]

But so is Hawkgirl and Vixen. So do they go as well? Replace Hawkgirl with HawkMAN since he's on The Batman and switch Vixen with Martian Manhunter who's also on those two cartoons you mention?

Why's John so special in this? Meltzer started it when he brought over Hawkgirl and Vixen.


I don't know, I really do not because if He continues to use Those two in the way that the yrelate in the DCU and NOT the JLU it will be ok. However, This is the JLU John and not the DCU John. I think that is the serious differnece.

[adama]

I liked Meltzer's run but I like this more. Simple as that.
I can understand the "spotlight" John got in this issue given that he is on the writer favorates. Now if the book becomes John Stewart and the JLA then we have a problem.

Dinah was actually the Chairwoman here. GL,BL,Reddy give a sit-rep, Reddy asks for a plan, Dinah gives the plan. Superman asks to have Vixen,BC and himself go the crime scene, Dinah says "that's fine", and forms the 2nd team, GL says someone should stay at HQ. This is how the chair of the JLA acts.

With Meltzer is felt like he was assigning pages to this character and that character. With McD it feels like they are talking.

[tnswman]

Who Apache Chief? El Dorado? Black Vulcan? They never appeared in any D.C comic and may very well be owned by Hanna-Barbera.

John's been around since the sixties. He's been aroud longer that Vixen. Had his own comic.

D.C. isn't using Black Lightning in any cartoon because they might actually have to PAY his creator royalties (there is an ongoing dispute there).

By all means continue to rant. You amuse me.

Steel, Mr. Terrific should have been used in a bigger role. How about Static Shock? His creator would have LOVED to have used him.

The fact that there is no Native American heroes is a cause for concern to be honest

now you can say that those characters are weaker than John.. However, John was re-written to be a tough guy for the show, that could have been done for ANY character.

[tnswman]

Who Apache Chief? El Dorado? Black Vulcan? They never appeared in any D.C comic and may very well be owned by Hanna-Barbera.

John's been around since the sixties. He's been around longer than Vixen. Had his own comic.

D.C. isn't using Black Lightning in any cartoon because they might actually have to PAY his creator royalties (there is an ongoing dispute there).

By all means continue to rant. You amuse me.

don't forget that John had a series and it failed....Even when they made him Earths Primary GL, hey HAD to keep Hal in the series and in every Issue, there he was making sure that the fans saw the real star of the book.

Why is it so hard for people to undestand that FOR his entire comic life, John is a 2nd rate character.

If he were so popular, he would have another series, or at least a mini.

There is far less love for John than anyone realizes.. It's simple, the john fans are the most vocal...even more so than Hal or Kyle fans in many cases.

[Proud Texan]

It's simple, the john fans are the most vocal...even more so than Hal or Kyle fans in many cases.


Yeah, I'm going to have to go ahead and call BS on this statement. No freaking way, dude! :D

[adama]

Steel see Infinity, Inc.
Mr. Terrific see Checkmate and JSA.
Static Shock I think there is dispute there....

What the heck is so bad about having John on the JLA? No one is always on the JLA.

[Mega Gear X]

I don't know, I really do not because if He continues to use Those two in the way that the yrelate in the DCU and NOT the JLU it will be ok. However, This is the JLU John and not the DCU John. I think that is the serious differnece.

Two issues in and you think this already??? McDuffie just gave him some personality. On the Kelly run he was just a token Green Lantern. By giving him some lines, you think that he's becoming the marine from the cartoon? Just wait and see. It's too early to tell yet.

One grievance I have with the entire book so far is that they don't focus on the top three so much, making them observant bit players while the other guys take center stage. It seems to assume that you collect their books as well. Let's see the big three do things...and so far McDuffie has made Batman do something and at least Supes interact with Vixen. (Meltzer did make Batman interact with Black Lightning, but mostly the big three just stayed in the background) Threat everyone equally. Not everyone reads Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman too.

[donna_fan]

No - he said that the last time they were in the JLA together was the early 80s. He's right.

He said that the dynamic was between Hal, Ollie, and Dinah. I was pointing out that I was talking about a different dynamic, that of Hal, Dinah, and Roy.

That dynamic was established in the O'Neil/Adams GL/GA series, and expanded upon in BoP slightly, and then really re-established by Meltzer. Building on such a masterpiece is the sort of thing that set Meltzer's League apart.

I was not wrong. In this case. :)

[BubbaKanoosh]

I actually liked this issue. and the art too. good to see Jon Stewart and Black Lighting schtick.

[tnswman]

Steel see Infinity, Inc.
Mr. Terrific see Checkmate and JSA.
Static Shock I think there is dispute there....

What the heck is so bad about having John on the JLA? No one is always on the JLA.


We were not talking about the comics...we were talking about how they could have made the JLU diverse without adding John

[KillerShrike]

It's insulting that a lot of people think that John is the only black character in the DCU. It is also insulting that for a team to be diverse, it has to be loaded with 2 races... what about Native Americans, Canadians, Jews, Legal Mexicans?

As opposed to the race of Mexicans that aren't legal?


I have to admit, I found the story to just be OK, seeing as how it feels like the third time in recent memory (between JLU and the comics) we've seen the "army of supervillains" plot line trotted out.

[TCJohnson]

G'Nort. you meant to say: G'Nort.

;) :D

If McDuffie brought in Ch'p, would he be accused of being a furry?

[Arion]

The writing is fine, but the art was, quite frankly, bad. Seriously, DC, this is your only book that sells over 100,000 (ASBR doesn't count by virtue of lateness and suckitude), and that's the best fill-in you could find?

But the cover was good.

[connorfan]

I thought John was used well here. He made sense but didnt seem to be forcing his opinions down anyone's throat. He seemed to have a natural teasing relationship with Black Lightning which was amusing. And I'm not sure how much of a Kendra/John relationship is in the works. There was some hinting but that could mean any number of things.

It could just be a tidbit for fans of the show picking up the book, which wont be developed further.

It could be a subtle way of preparing for Roy's departure given we know that he will be in Winick's Titans book. Is he pulling dual status? I dont know. Not that the John and Kendra will get togeth but that they are showing she could be attracted to others so as to down play her ties to Roy.

Or it could be about setting up the readers who think they are getting JLU but then McDuffie shows us that his cartoon John and his comic john are two different animals.

Hal will be back in the league sooner or later, either under Mcduffie or not. And just for the record can we stop with blaming McDuffie for the line up: http://www.comicbloc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1171409&postcount=207 the editors picked the line up.

[tnswman]

As opposed to the race of Mexicans that aren't legal?


I have to admit, I found the story to just be OK, seeing as how it feels like the third time in recent memory (between JLU and the comics) we've seen the "army of supervillains" plot line trotted out.


right, we should not support any illegal activity. the illegals are the guys that the JLA goes after on the slow nights... Superman has to tell them that they are welcome to follow the rules and come into the country LEGALLY.

they will fuss that the lines are too long or that the application is in english. But Batman will tell them it is TOUGH and that they should know english anyway if they truly want to be accepted in the USA! He is tired of his Wayne industries having to package everything with Spanish on it. So, he will be a little pissy towards them..it's all realtive.

[Mega Gear X]

don't forget that John had a series and it failed....Even when they made him Earths Primary GL, hey HAD to keep Hal in the series and in every Issue, there he was making sure that the fans saw the real star of the book.

Why is it so hard for people to undestand that FOR his entire comic life, John is a 2nd rate character.

If he were so popular, he would have another series, or at least a mini.

There is far less love for John than anyone realizes.. It's simple, the john fans are the most vocal...even more so than Hal or Kyle fans in many cases.

Damn, about time!!! Okay, so you just don't like John Stewart...which is why of all the JLU-esque points, he alone bothers you the most...(no one even thinks about the Javelin I mentioned waaaaaaay back...).

You can say the same with Guy Gardner.

LOL, that's like Aquaman should go because his book is always getting cancelled. Or Jonn Jonzz should go because no one outside of comic fans know who he is.


What the heck is so bad about having John on the JLA? No one is always on the JLA.

Jonn Jonzz should be...

[tnswman]

I thought John was used well here. He made sense but didnt seem to be forcing his opinions down anyone's throat. He seemed to have a natural teasing relationship with Black Lightning which was amusing. And I'm not sure how much of a Kendra/John relationship is in the works. There was some hinting but that could mean any number of things.

It could just be a tidbit for fans of the show picking up the book, which wont be developed further.

It could be a subtle way of preparing for Roy's departure given we know that he will be in Winick's Titans book. Is he pulling dual status? I dont know. Not that the John and Kendra will get togeth but that they are showing she could be attracted to others so as to down play her ties to Roy.

Or it could be about setting up the readers who think they are getting JLU but then McDuffie shows us that his cartoon John and his comic john are two different animals.

Hal will be back in the league sooner or later, either under Mcduffie or not. And just for the record can we stop with blaming McDuffie for the line up: http://www.comicbloc.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1171409&postcount=207 the editors picked the line up.


RIGGGGGHT!! you keep thinking that. Since when is editorial ideas a main concern at DC?

[Mega Gear X]

We were not talking about the comics...we were talking about how they could have made the JLU diverse without adding John

And Hawkgirl. She was part of the PC thing too, but pulled double duty with race AND sex. But you only have it in for John...

[TCJohnson]

RIGGGGGHT!! you keep thinking that. Since when is editorial ideas a main concern at DC?


Can you explain this? I don't understand what you mean. Editorial controls everything at DC.

[tnswman]

Damn, about time!!! Okay, so you just don't like John Stewart...which is why of all the JLU-esque points, he alone bothers you the most...(no one even thinks about the Javelin I mentioned waaaaaaay back...).

You can say the same with Guy Gardner.

LOL, that's like Aquaman should go because his book is always getting cancelled. Or Jonn Jonzz should go because no one outside of comic fans know who he is.



Jonn Jonzz should be...


no it means that you can not make a valid point about John having his own book because it always fails.. The same as Aquaman and Jonn. Which is a shame because BOTH of those members should be on the team.

If the JLoA is a partnership co-oping station for the GL corp.. Are we going to see Guy and Kyle? We should shouldn't we?

Who knows, maybe this is just a huge set-up for the JLA movie since we know John will be the Gl in the movie... they will probably give him Hal's Origin because they have to tell how he got his ring.

[tnswman]

And Hawkgirl. She was part of the PC thing too, but pulled double duty with race AND sex. But you only have it in for John...


No, I just do not see the point to how her inclusion was PC related even though it was mentioned as such. Plus, we got our Hawkman fix didn't we? And What is her race on the cartoon?

[tnswman]

Can you explain this? I don't understand what you mean. Editorial controls everything at DC.


sure they do... that's why everything is so smooth and precise. you know.. Like how Kyle is a GL in one book and a MAJOR villian in another.

also, How characters are written totally out of their designs and nobody lifts a finger to say " wait a minute, he would not act this way"

[connorfan]

RIGGGGGHT!! you keep thinking that. Since when is editorial ideas a main concern at DC?

lol lets see we have the infamous who Brad Meltzer could kill list. All of the editorial controls which held up Kyle being in Countdown because of the Sinestro corps. The death of bart allen was concieved editorially and then they found Marc G. to write it. Lets not forget Emerald Twilight, or Rebirth both editiorially driven ideas(Carlin called in Marz to write Hal's fall and Tomisa(sp) called Johns to write Hal's return). And those are just some of the larger ones. Editorial ideas and controls has played a large part in DC comics, its not just free regin writers doing whatever they want.

Thats not to say that the editors dont make tons of mistakes or mess up when they control things but its there.

[Vic Vega]

and i think that's weak writing, because it's the character interaction that matters, not what they do.
and look at it this way: if i'm actually in the League, do you think they're saying, "hey, guys. we've got two Green Lanterns on the roster, and if we go out into the field together, we're too powerful -- yeah, i know Doctor Light's trying to kill us and all, but gee, we need some diversification. can we get Nemesis on the line, so his diverse, non-powered ass can cover my back just in case Sinestro pops up behind me on a mission?"

to me, the point of the League IS to overpower opponents.

Tell that to the Meltzer bashers. Folks read these things(team books) for the punch outs.

Each Leaguer should do something different because you never know what will come up.
They already have heavy hitters (Supes, Wondy, G.L.), a strategist (Bats), a Tank(Reddy) Infantry(Vixen, Black Canary), Recon (Flash), Air Cav (Kendra) a Weapon Expert(Roy) and artillery(Black Lightning).

They need a Tech Guy, a Telepath or a Mage, not a second Lantern.

[Mega Gear X]

No, I just do not see the point to how her inclusion was PC related even though it was mentioned as such. Plus, we got our Hawkman fix didn't we? And What is her race on the cartoon?

She was included for three reasons, which are on the first Justice League DVD on the extra that was explaining the designs for the characters.

1) She helped Wonder Woman from being the token female
2) Maria Canalis' Hispanic voice made Hawkgirl sound more ethnic (Thanagarian)
3) Bruce Timm likes Hawkgirl

[tnswman]

She was included for three reasons, which are on the first Justice League DVD on the extra that was explaining the designs for the characters.

1) She helped Wonder Woman from being the token female
2) Maria Canalis' Hispanic voice made Hawkgirl sound more ethnic (Thanagarian)
3) Bruce Timm likes Hawkgirl


Well, It's insulting then to have to force feed different races characters that sound like their "people'

do you not think that Hawkgirl is a natural fit though.. john seemed forced and was forced ( the ytold us that he was included due to diversity) Why not bring in Mr. Terrific or Steel and let Kyle contuinue as GL? It would have worked.

[LuisMa316]

Steel, Mr. Terrific should have been used in a bigger role. How about Static Shock? His creator would have LOVED to have used him.


Heh.Dwayne McDuffie created staic last i check

[Mega Gear X]

Well, It's insulting then to have to force feed different races characters that sound like their "people'

do you not think that Hawkgirl is a natural fit though.. john seemed forced and was forced ( the ytold us that he was included due to diversity) Why not bring in Mr. Terrific or Steel and let Kyle contuinue as GL? It would have worked.

Hawkgirl and Vixen feel as though they gained popularity from the toon and that made them team members. At least John Steward is a Green Lantern and Green Lantern is a known Justice Leaguer and one of the Big Seven from Morrison. The other two feel like since they were big on the cartoon, they should be on the team.

Aquaman wasn't a big seven member on the toon, so he isn't in the comics now? That's a bigger crime. Vixen made it, but not Jonn Jonzz? At least a Green Lantern is on the team. The other three have their own books.

As far as the "people" comment, I think that it isn't insulting because they get someone to root for who is a part of their camp.

[Xeero]

Okay, I hate more than anything to play the race card, believe me, I really do... But a white writer can bring in a character and write him as great as he wants him to be and it's all fine and dandy. But a black writer comes in and adds another black character into the team, it's PC and favoritism because the character is black? That's exactly what it seems like it's being said.

If McDuffie wants to bring in John Stewart and expand his character in the books, who the freak cares? He's writing a character he likes, just like every damn writer would do. And at the same time, John is hardly in anything else and is hardly being used, so there's no reason for this "2nd rate" character to be in the book. Just like how Vixen and Hawkgirl and Roy and Black Lightning shouldn't be in the book. If Superman makes a suggestion to Dinah and the plan, it's ok, but if it's John, it's him bringing the female chairman down.

Is it really so hard to believe that John may actually have fans? Just like Hal or Kyle? Sure, John may have been included in the cartoon to add diversity and simply that, but I'm glad they did because I would love to see more black people represented in a medium that I love. And I ended up loving John Stewart, so maybe I should pick up a comic with John in it now, but oh no, he's not featuring in any because of Hal. So finally John is featured in a book written by a black writer, so there's totally something wrong with that.

And about John Stewart's comic failing, if I recall correctly, his Mosiac run was actually selling well and fans enjoyed the book, but the editor didn't seem to like where the run was going so he pulled the plug. So since his book "failed" he shouldn't be in JLA, especially since he's being pushed down our throat simply because he's black written by a black writer, right? Like how Roy was pushed down our throats by a white writer, huh?

[jrp001]

Dinah was actually the Chairwoman here. GL,BL,Reddy give a sit-rep, Reddy asks for a plan, Dinah gives the plan. Superman asks to have Vixen,BC and himself go the crime scene, Dinah says "that's fine", and forms the 2nd team, GL says someone should stay at HQ. This is how the chair of the JLA acts.



This is exactly how the League should works - a conference of equals (well super equals) - with a Chairperson setting the course -- BC (no matter how much I love her ) is not the LEADER of the League.


and i for one loved the "in-jokes" to the JLU cartoon. Now if six issues from now every other line turns out to be a JLU in joke we may have problem.

but jeez its been almost 2 issues...

I gave Metzer an Arc and half before I knew it wasn't my taste! (read: still liked it, but wanted more from my JLA title)

[Fenrir]

do you not think that Hawkgirl is a natural fit though.. john seemed forced and was forced
Dude, we get it. Yes, the horse is still twitching, but we get it: You don't like John Stewart. You've a fair amount of dislike at best and hatred at worst for the character. As such, though it's painfully obvious that no amount of rationale discourse will change your mind on that, I'll simply say that John felt no more or less forced than any of the other characters as presented in JLU to me, personally.

[jrp001]

no it means that you can not make a valid point about John having his own book because it always fails.. The same as Aquaman and Jonn. Which is a shame because BOTH of those members should be on the team.

If the JLoA is a partnership co-oping station for the GL corp.. Are we going to see Guy and Kyle? We should shouldn't we?


no not all. John and Hal are the lanterns of sector 2816(??) where earth is located. JLoA is located on Earth.

Guy is the Honor Guard serving sort of in an obudsman capacity - and is not always on the Earth.

as for Kyle, he is not even in 'this' universe rights now (or at least post Sin Corp) pre Final Crisis.

[Lord Shiva]

I really did like the issue.:D

I loved seeing Canary beating the mess out of Doctor Light and Vixen one-shot Grood with Superman's strength.

[Kent Horton]

QUOTED FOR TRUTH!

HAHA Awesome. This post made my day. :)
Neither one of you would know the truth as related to the JLA if it slapped you upside the head with a wet salami.




Or in your case, floppy boobs. :p

[Kent Horton]

in other words, all you Meltzer haters: freakin' zip it!:mad: :mad: yer savior's here, ya got what ya wanted, now suck it up and love the freakin' book now, ya damn whiners!!:mad: :mad: :D
We're not the ones whining. :D

[Kent Horton]

Hal absolutely should be in the League. Replacing Hal with John is just an attempt to make the book like the cartoon.

It destroys the important dynamic that goes back to O'Neil/Adams. And, frankly, I'll take them over McDuffie anyday.
The same dynamic that didn't exist during the 80s or 90s?

[ElijahSnowFan]

We're not the ones whining. :D

are so! are so! are so!;) :D

[Kent Horton]

Wrong. YOU fail.

Hal, Dinah, and Roy, early 70s, GL/GA, look it up.
You fail at reading comprehension.


This is just as fun as with the wedding special. :o

[Kent Horton]

are so! are so! are so!;) :D
Dammit! You broke my streak, bitch! :mad: :mad: :mad:





There, that's whining. :D :p

[ElijahSnowFan]

Dammit! You broke my streak, bitch! :mad: :mad: :mad:





There, that's whining. :D :p

ha! i did, indeed.:D :D

*cruel laugh emerges, grows louder...*

muah-hah-hah-ha!:mad: :mad:

[chap22]

ha! i did, indeed.:D :D

*cruel laugh emerges, grows louder...*

muah-hah-hah-ha!:mad: :mad:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8d/Lron.jpg

"uh, sir? you're doing it again."

[ElijahSnowFan]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8d/Lron.jpg

"uh, sir? you're doing it again."

ha! i hadn't seen that in forever!

man, those were the days! IIRC, Suicide Squad and JLI used to come out on the same day!:D :D :cool:

[donna_fan]

The same dynamic that didn't exist during the 80s or 90s?

And? Because the book existed in the 70s, it isn't real? :confused:

It's a freakin' masterpiece, which is more than I can say for JLU ... ooops, I mean Justice League of America ... oops, I mean In-Justice League of America.

[Kent Horton]

i'm not sure they really were considered "part" of the League in Crisis of Conscience (not sure there really was officially a roster in that arc, just a whole bunch of former and current Leaguers interacting based on what was happening), and the Harras-penned atrocity NEVER happened. never, you hear me?????????
Yeah, didn't the Crisis of Conscience arc happen after they had officially disbanded or something?

[Xeero]

And? Because the book existed in the 70s, it isn't real? :confused:

It's a freakin' masterpiece, which is more than I can say for JLU ... ooops, I mean Justice League of America ... oops, I mean In-Justice League of America.

It's as if you need to have something to complain about, eh?

[Kent Horton]

And? Because the book existed in the 70s, it isn't real? :confused:

It's a freakin' masterpiece, which is more than I can say for JLU ... ooops, I mean Justice League of America ... oops, I mean In-Justice League of America.
The point is that a dynamic that hasn't existed since the 80's is not a dynamic that existed since the 70s, it's a dynamic that existed in the 70s.

[Kent Horton]

Who Apache Chief? El Dorado? Black Vulcan? They never appeared in any D.C comic and may very well be owned by Hanna-Barbera.

John's been around since the sixties. He's been around longer than Vixen. Had his own comic.

D.C. isn't using Black Lightning in any cartoon because they might actually have to PAY his creator royalties (there is an ongoing dispute there).

By all means continue to rant. You amuse me.
Well . . . . Black Vulcan and Apache Chief have, sorta, since Black Vulcan was just a version of Black Lightning they made up for some reason, and Manitou Raven was basically an updated version of Apache Chief. Mofo was even Apache himself, as I recall.


BTW, I find it somewhat amusing that before this thread, tnswman only had 7 posts in the last year and 9 months . . .

[donna_fan]

The point is that a dynamic that hasn't existed since the 80's is not a dynamic that existed since the 70s, it's a dynamic that existed in the 70s.

So, when Babs tells Helena that Dinah is like a mother to Roy, and tells her about how Dinah helped Roy through his coming off drugs, that never happened?

It's not like Meltzer invented it.

My point is this (I'll be brief, I promise): For anyone who has read those stories, there is a natural dynamic that is both meaningful and has emotional resonance with Hal, Dinah, Roy.

I'm guessing that's why Meltzer chose to include them. There's something there. Removing them, any of them, and replacing them with characters who don't play a part in those stories destroys that connection to the emotional resonance that existed.

[Kent Horton]

So, when Babs tells Helena that Dinah is like a mother to Roy, and tells her about how Dinah helped Roy through his coming off drugs, that never happened?

It's not like Meltzer invented it.

My point is this (I'll be brief, I promise): For anyone who has read those stories, there is a natural dynamic that is both meaningful and has emotional resonance with Hal, Dinah, Roy.

I'm guessing that's why Meltzer chose to include them. There's something there. Removing them, any of them, and replacing them with characters who don't play a part in those stories destroys that connection to the emotional resonance that existed.
It's no more a vital part of the JLA than Vibe is, though

[Xeero]

So, when Babs tells Helena that Dinah is like a mother to Roy, and tells her about how Dinah helped Roy through his coming off drugs, that never happened?

It's not like Meltzer invented it.

My point is this (I'll be brief, I promise): For anyone who has read those stories, there is a natural dynamic that is both meaningful and has emotional resonance with Hal, Dinah, Roy.

I'm guessing that's why Meltzer chose to include them. There's something there. Removing them, any of them, and replacing them with characters who don't play a part in those stories destroys that connection to the emotional resonance that existed.

And where did that dynamic come from in the beginning? Nothing, it had to be produced and worked on. So allow new dynamics to be produced and worked on between other characters.

[donna_fan]

It's no more a vital part of the JLA than Vibe is, though

I don't know from vital.

What I know is what speaks to me as a reader. That's what I am talking about.

[donna_fan]

And where did that dynamic come from in the beginning? Nothing, it had to be produced and worked on. So allow new dynamics to be produced and worked on between other characters.

That's all fine and dandy.

But you can't re-create the magic of a masterpiece on the fly. There was NO reason to remove Hal. None. He's the superior character in EVERY way.

And seriously, from the sound of it, this issue had enough problems on its own without delving into Hal's absence.

[chap22]

I don't know from vital.

What I know is what speaks to me as a reader. That's what I am talking about.
so druggie-lad, and his "mom" and "uncle" speaks to you, but you hate the idea of John and BL becoming tight?

RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:




:p

[Kent Horton]

That's all fine and dandy.

But you can't re-create the magic of a masterpiece on the fly. There was NO reason to remove Hal. None. He's the superior character in EVERY way.

And seriously, from the sound of it, this issue had enough problems on its own without delving into Hal's absence.
Alan > Guy > John > Kyle > Hal.


:D

[Xeero]

That's all fine and dandy.

But you can't re-create the magic of a masterpiece on the fly. There was NO reason to remove Hal. None. He's the superior character in EVERY way.

And seriously, from the sound of it, this issue had enough problems on its own without delving into Hal's absence.

Like what, being enjoyable and developing a story? Adding nice character moments and action together rather nicely?

[donna_fan]

so druggie-lad, and his "mom" and "uncle" speaks to you, but you hate the idea of John and BL becoming tight?

RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:




:p


Yeah, that is it: I'm a racist. You caught me! :)

Seriously, if there were a great story that I had read about John and BL, and it had been referenced elsewhere, and was drawn by Neal Adams, then yeah, I might have an emotional connection to it.

[connorfan]

And where did that dynamic come from in the beginning? Nothing, it had to be produced and worked on. So allow new dynamics to be produced and worked on between other characters.

Thats a great point, all these 'classic' dynamics came from somewhere. We could see a great Black Lightning, John Stewart dynamic in the works. Then 30 years from now someone can complain about not seeing that. ;)

[donna_fan]

Like what, being enjoyable and developing a story? Adding nice character moments and action together rather nicely?

It didn't sound good, from the summaries I read. That's all I can tell you.

[Kent Horton]

It didn't sound good, from the summaries I read. That's all I can tell you.
Yes. Summaries. Very insightful and unbiased. ;)

[donna_fan]

Yes. Summaries. Very insightful and unbiased. ;)

It was a good summary, and by someone who liked the book. That's all I have to go on. I'm certainly not buying the thing.

[Vic Vega]

so druggie-lad, and his "mom" and "uncle" speaks to you, but you hate the idea of John and BL becoming tight?

RACIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:mad:




:p

Not to mention Roy and Dinah are probably closer in age than Ollie and Dinah so its more of a "cool older sib" vibe than anything else.

As for John busting on B.L. you have to figure post satellite era they'd have to have spoken to each other at least once.

[Kent Horton]

It was a good summary, and by someone who liked the book. That's all I have to go on. I'm certainly not buying the thing.
Cause you have no taste. We know. :D

Well, at least your tastes aren't as bad as Imperius'. :p

[donna_fan]

Not to mention Roy and Dinah are probably closer in age than Ollie and Dinah so its more of a "cool older sib" vibe than anything else.

No, it's really not. It might seem that way, age-wise. But in the original stories, and in BoP, and elsewhere, it's pretty much made clear that Dinah is a mother figure to Roy.

[Mega Gear X]

But you can't re-create the magic of a masterpiece on the fly. There was NO reason to remove Hal. None. He's the superior character in EVERY way.


The problem is that there is more than one Hal. There are four guys exactly like him, each with their own fandom. If you wanna read about Hal specifically, go read Green Lantern.

Like I said before, five Green Lanterns, five different books

Hal=GREEEN LANTERN
John=JUSTICE LEAGUE
Guy=GREEN LANTERN CORPS
Kyle=COUNTDOWN
ALAN=JUSTICE SOCIETY

Wasn't this the reason why Hal was replaced by Kyle anyway? To make Green Lantern a more unique character?

[Floyd Lawton]

It didn't sound good, from the summaries I read. That's all I can tell you.
Maybe you should read it.

[donna_fan]

Maybe you should read it.

Why? I flipped through it, and read a summary. Are you implying that I should buy it?

[Xeero]

Maybe you should read it.

No need since John Stewart's a character with a purpose rather than a background character.

[connorfan]

Maybe you should read it.

I dont think that would make much difference. And I'm not saying that donna fan is just trolling or anything like that, but my impression of her opinion in this instance is it is very very firm and with that attitude going in I cant imagine any comic being good enough to change her mind, short of the comic actually being Hal/Roy/Dinah.

[Floyd Lawton]

Why? I flipped through it, and read a summary. Are you implying that I should buy it?
Mmm nah. But you might want to actually READ the whole thing. Then cry from the rooftops your anger and frustration that it isnt what YOU wanted. ;)

[donna_fan]

Mmm nah. But you might want to actually READ the whole thing. Then cry from the rooftops your anger and frustration that it isnt what YOU wanted. ;)

As opposed to crying about how it IS what YOU want?

The only valid opinion is not a positive opinion. Anyways, I said long before McDuffie took over that if Hal, Dinah, or Roy were gone, so was I. So, I'm just fulfilling that.

I still have Morrison, Waid, and Meltzer to re-read anytime I want a good JLA story.

[Fenrir]

Mmm nah. But you might want to actually READ the whole thing. Then cry from the rooftops your anger and frustration that it isnt what YOU wanted. ;)
Why do that when he can be just like the very people he ragged on in other threads who didn't read Meltzer's issues yet nevertheless felt compelled to critique them from the peanut gallery.

[donna_fan]

Why do that when he can be just like the very people he ragged on in other threads who didn't read Meltzer's issues yet nevertheless felt compelled to critique them from the peanut gallery.

Well, I'm not actually (not much, anyways) critiquing the issue. We got into a discussion about some stuff, and we discussed it. That's it. Now it's over.

[Floyd Lawton]

As opposed to crying about how it IS what YOU want?

The only valid opinion is not a positive opinion. Anyways, I said long before McDuffie took over that if Hal, Dinah, or Roy were gone, so was I. So, I'm just fulfilling that.

I still have Morrison, Waid, and Meltzer to re-read anytime I want a good JLA story.
I dont cry about anything in comics really. They are just that. Comics. But your opinion is all well and fine. You might have a more informed opinion if you actually read it. heh. And I get you were talking about other stuff than just the issue :D

[Kent Horton]

I dont think that would make much difference. And I'm not saying that donna fan is just trolling or anything like that, but my impression of her opinion in this instance is it is very very firm and with that attitude going in I cant imagine any comic being good enough to change her mind, short of the comic actually being Hal/Roy/Dinah.
Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!!

:D

[connorfan]

Bwa-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!!

:D

*facepalm* I'm guessing I got that wrong... In my defense I did check his profile before posting.

[Kent Horton]

*facepalm* I'm guessing I got that wrong... In my defense I did check his profile before posting.
Don't worry, I wasn't laughing at you. :D

[chap22]

As opposed to crying about how it IS what YOU want?

The only valid opinion is not a positive opinion. Anyways, I said long before McDuffie took over that if Hal, Dinah, or Roy were gone, so was I. So, I'm just fulfilling that.

I still have Morrison, Waid, and Meltzer to re-read anytime I want a good JLA story.
two of whom of course NEVER had Dinah, Roy, or Hal in them. at all.(well, except for Waid's Yr. One):p :p


but keep on trucking with that hard-headed "everything after Meltzer will automatically suck" stance, champ.;) :p

[Fenrir]

two of whom of course NEVER had Dinah, Roy, or Hal in them. at all.(well, except for Waid's Yr. One):p :p


but keep on trucking with that hard-headed "everything after Meltzer will automatically suck" stance, champ.;) :p
You! Outta my head, now!

Unless yer nekkid. :p

[mike616]

I don't mind which GL is in the JLA they have all earned the right to be the GL's of earth and members of the Leauge.DF you seem to have conviently forgotten that the GL in Morisson's run was Kyle Rayner or did you boycott the book like you have now?

[adama]

You! Outta my head, now!

Unless yer nekkid. :p
Real life lawyers DO NOT look like the ones on TV.
Just saying..

[tnswman]

Well . . . . Black Vulcan and Apache Chief have, sorta, since Black Vulcan was just a version of Black Lightning they made up for some reason, and Manitou Raven was basically an updated version of Apache Chief. Mofo was even Apache himself, as I recall.


BTW, I find it somewhat amusing that before this thread, tnswman only had 7 posts in the last year and 9 months . . .


No kidding, I hated to have to come in here and have to hand lead some readers to thinking for themselves. Someone has to call a spade a spade ;)

but what do I care? I just have EVERY JLoA and GL core comic that has ever been produced. I can at least make a legit comment on the situation. It's not like this is my 1st time in seeing John pop up.

Damn they should have just killed him off. That would have been so much better for the other characters who could rally around his death.

It's just funny to see all of the John supporters who will make 8 pages of rants whenever John is replaced. It's funny because right now you think that anyone who does not support John as the JLoA should not even buy the book or is a racist. Nobody thinks about those of us that just see John as a token black character you know, being angry a lot and talking in slang that few of us understand LOL!

[adama]

No kidding, I hated to have to come in here and have to hand lead some readers to thinking for themselves. Someone has to call a spade a spade ;)

but what do I care? I just have EVERY JLoA and GL core comic that has ever been produced. I can at least make a legit comment on the situation. It's not like this is my 1st time in seeing John pop up.

Damn they should have just killed him off. That would have been so much better for the other characters who could rally around his death.

It's just funny to see all of the John supporters who will make 8 pages of rants whenever John is replaced. It's funny because right now you think that anyone who does not support John as the JLoA should not even buy the book or is a racist. Nobody thinks about those of us that just see John as a token black character you know, being angry a lot and talking in slang that few of us understand LOL!

Maybe McD can change that.

[Xeero]

Maybe McD can change that.

As I mentioned not too long ago, John isn't meant to be a notable character, he's suppose to be background character and a door knob with no lines whatsoever. Shame of John Stewart for having fans and having a writer who actually wants to write him and actually make him somebody rather than a background character. Shame on them.

[SouthtownKid]

Storywise, I liked the issue. I liked John speaking up for the reader and letting Black Lightning know how dumb he looks with the shaved head. Yeah, way to ditch the '70s look for a '90s look. That comment was much appreciated by me. I also liked the Vixen/Superman scene.

Artwise, I was less impressed. Benitez draws nice female characters, but I don't like the way John Stewart is built like the Michelin Man, Superman's lightbulb-shaped head, and I think he could have done a better job of setting the scene. There is very little sense of atmosphere or environment. It felt very much like a return to the Image days -- all big panels, big figures and posing, with less emphasis on actual visual storytelling. The backgrounds in 3/4 of the book are so completely nondescript, there's no sense of where anyone is, in relation to each other in the scene, or in relation to the other groups of characters in the book.

[caats19]

i thought benitez drawed poor women too. too much mcfarlane/j scott campbell. i want benes

[Mega Gear X]

i thought benitez drawed poor women too. too much mcfarlane/j scott campbell. i want benes

There's one woman Benitez seems to like--Poison Ivy. She's always in these elaborate poses when he draws her.

[Proud Texan]

It's just funny to see all of the John supporters who will make 8 pages of rants whenever John is replaced. It's funny because right now you think that anyone who does not support John as the JLoA should not even buy the book or is a racist. Nobody thinks about those of us that just see John as a token black character you know, being angry a lot and talking in slang that few of us understand LOL!

You hate John Stewart, we get that. Honestly, he's not my favorite Green Lantern. I like Hal the best, or Guy, depending on my mood. That said, I don't mind that John is the GL in this title now since that is what the current writer wants to do. If having John in the JLA is this painful for you then you absolutely should not be buying it. There are too many good comics out there to agonize over one...or more specifically a single character in one.

Oh, and your "token" argument is total BS, seeing as how there were already two black members of the lineup he inherited. I think what you meant to say was "token black character whom I personally do not like."

[Mrkeystone]

Sorry, but in this story..the sinestro corps war is OVER. That's one reason why john is not fighting it as we speak. If you have not noticed, DC is not too concerned with waht other heroes are going through in their other books, so WHY SHOULD HAL GET ALL THE CONCERN????

DC needs to step in and say that the simple fact is that Hal WW, Sups and BATS are the STANDARD characters in the JLoA core book. from a marketing stand point, it makes PERFECT sense. Hal is back to being the Animated GL in The Batman, and in the new Frontier movie. when kids buy the new DC cartoon DVDs ofthe super friends and super powers, they see Hal. Hal hasa marketability that comes from him being the 1st Modern GL and the standard GL character tha tthe company uses for advertising.

A lot of people state that McDuffie is using John for racial reasons and to be honest, It would foolw Mcduffie's way of thinking, ( Look up his past before you shoot me). He really might be using his run to push more Black characters but it appears more that he is just pushing his un-used JLU story on us. The thing is, THE JLU is OVER...it DOES NOT TRANSLATE into the current JLoA comic.

I GUARANTEE you that the next white writer who comes in and brings back Hal will be called a racist and will go through HELL for the move.

McDuffie simply can not expand his skills outside of the JLU cartoon in regards to the DCU.

He might not pick the characters but if Marvel brings him in to write the Fantastic Four when they add 2 black members, and DC brings him in to wrote the JLoA when they have 4 Black members...isn't that kind of saying, Oh, we need to bring a black writer in to write these characters? That is sort of racist in my eyes. It is really insulting.

You can't please everyone and if you try you will fall flat on your face. I am black and I have been reading comics for years and I am very proud that a black writer is using and writing about black superheros where as most white writers use them as a token (aka throwing "us" a bone).

[Mega Gear X]

No kidding, I hated to have to come in here and have to hand lead some readers to thinking for themselves. Someone has to call a spade a spade ;)

but what do I care? I just have EVERY JLoA and GL core comic that has ever been produced. I can at least make a legit comment on the situation. It's not like this is my 1st time in seeing John pop up.

Damn they should have just killed him off. That would have been so much better for the other characters who could rally around his death.

It's just funny to see all of the John supporters who will make 8 pages of rants whenever John is replaced. It's funny because right now you think that anyone who does not support John as the JLoA should not even buy the book or is a racist. Nobody thinks about those of us that just see John as a token black character you know, being angry a lot and talking in slang that few of us understand LOL!

I just don't get how you're beefing over John Stewart when:

a) He's been in the League before in recent times when he replaced Kyle, and if he didn't, then Hal would have when he returned.

b) He is a legit DC universe character; i.e. he wasn't created by Bruce Timm or anything

c) Hawkgirl and Vixen weren't too popular until Justice League toons started showing as well. How come Brad Meltzer gets a pass, but not Dwayne McDuffie?

[RockSP]

As for John busting on B.L. you have to figure post satellite era they'd have to have spoken to each other at least once.

John and Black Lightning worked together during Omac project and Infinite Crisis. I assume that's what McDuffie was refering to.

[RockSP]

Damn they should have just killed him off. That would have been so much better for the other characters who could rally around his death.

It's just funny to see all of the John supporters who will make 8 pages of rants whenever John is replaced. It's funny because right now you think that anyone who does not support John as the JLoA should not even buy the book or is a racist. Nobody thinks about those of us that just see John as a token black character you know, being angry a lot and talking in slang that few of us understand LOL!

How would John fans ranting be any different than you ranting about Hal? And when is John "angry a lot and talking in slang"? What imaginary comics are you reading? This is 2007...not the 70's. Superman, Batman, etc. don't talk the same way they did decades ago, either.

[CapRimshot]

probably one of the most recycled plots ever. An injustice league? Wasn't that done in IC? Why would all of the villains join up again just to rule the world? Yawn. Luthor in a mechanical suit + recycled old plot= me dropping JLA.

Oh and Hals hasn't been a Lantern for a few years. Stewart has. I wanna see Hal + Flash, and Hal + Bats, not Stewart being a boring char. He hasn't been written very well outside of GL (and he is getting an increased presence there Post-SC)


And Geo-Force being on the team still hasn't been explained. Geo-force, firestorm, and Stewart can join, but not Cyborg?! Cyborg would be muchhhhhhhhh cooler in JLA.

[Bruce Leroy]

BTW, I find it somewhat amusing that before this thread, tnswman only had 7 posts in the last year and 9 months . . .

I guess I'm the only person who noticed it then.....tnswman is the same guy who was ranting on that board that McDuffie posted on revealing that he didn't pick the team.

Too many similar comments and the same about of hate directed at McDuffie for brining in John for it now to be.

[Hobowatcher]

It was ok. Nothing spectacular, but a heck of a lot better than Meltzer's run because it focused on decent to somewhat good superhero action and character moments that were actually charming. I especially like John razzing Black Lighting. AND there was no Geo-Force seen by me.

I think this sums up the issue perfectly:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/hobowatcher/1444621183_512804ee7d_o.gif
(courtesy of http://absorbascon.blogspot.com/)

Thank you, Mr. McDuffie.

[Spidey.]

Wow...tnswman..you're a nutbar.

1.) If anything, the whole reason McDuffie put John in the book (other than the fact that Hal is OBVIOUSLY being wrapped up in all the huge storylines Johns has planned for him over in his own title) was to show people like you that he's more than the "token". Hal said he was busy, and John offered to take his place in the league. He's been a leaguer multiple times as said previously over a dozen times. How do you not get that? Give Hal a break, he's been all over the place since his return. Let him breathe just a little bit.

2.) He wasn't ordering anyone around. If anything, Superman was the one being bossy, he didn't even suggest who he wanted to bring. He just said who he was going to take. All John did on the other hand was suggest that Black Lightning stay behind to guard the base. Which makes sense. Which is why Black Canary didn't argue with him about. And why would she? It was a good idea. Not to mention that being Chairwoman does not mean that she makes all the rules. She's not a facist, the JLA is a TEAM. They work together.

3.) John suggests Hawkgirl come with him and all of a sudden he's trying to proprosition her?


It really just seems as if McDuffie is catching flack for his work on JLU (which was good) and then writing the JLA, and people over analyzing everything in his FIRST issue on the title simply because of the fact that he used to write on the cartoon show. Do people give Dini that kind of crap just because he used to work on Batman: TAS and now he's writing Detective Comics? I could see if McDuffie came along and completely changed the personalities of characters and wrote them just the way HE wanted to. But he's not doing that.

Moreover, on top of all that he catches uneccesary flack for including John Stewart on the team just because he's black. Why? Because McDuffie is black. Why does it always have to be a race thing? Why can't he just like the freaking character? All writers bring on characters they like and include them in stories while they're doing a team book. What's the difference here? Just because a black writer is utilizing a black character there has to be some kind of hidden agenda to stick it to the man? Get over yourselves.

The whole reason characters like John Stewart are seen as "Token" characters is because they're used to sparangingly. And when one writer comes along and tries to change that with an oppurtunity to add more depth to him there's gotta be some kind of scheme on his part? This is no different than Bendis and his man-crush on Luke Cage. Actually, it's more reserved than that. If anything, we should be happy that a good writer came along with a pre-existing feel for the character and is trying to give him as much spotlight as possible without it looking like he's taking over the show. (*cough*MeltzerandRed Arrow*cough*)



Maybe after McDuffie is done with him he'll be seen as more than "The Black Green Lantern". Which isn't a bad thing at all.

[Bruce Leroy]

1.) If anything, the whole reason McDuffie put John in the book (other than the fact that Hal is OBVIOUSLY being wrapped up in all the huge storylines Johns has planned for him over in his own title) was to show people like you that he's more than the "token". Hal said he was busy, and John offered to take his place in the league. He's been a leaguer multiple times as said previously over a dozen times. How do you not get that? Give Hal a break, he's been all over the place since his return. Let him breathe just a little bit.

While i'm sure McDuffie enjoys writing John Stewart, he's said himself that the team was an editorial decsion. Just like with his run on F4 where Black Panther and Storm were brought on the team, he said THAT was an editorial decision also, but he of course still got a bit flack for bringing those two onto the team. (though not nearly as much as this)

2.) He wasn't ordering anyone around. If anything, Superman was the one being bossy, he didn't even suggest who he wanted to bring. He just said who he was going to take. All John did on the other hand was suggest that Black Lightning stay behind to guard the base. Which makes sense. Which is why Black Canary didn't argue with him about. And why would she? It was a good idea. Not to mention that being Chairwoman does not mean that she makes all the rules. She's not a facist, the JLA is a TEAM. They work together.

That's EXACTLY how it happens and how it should happen. I hate when people lie about things that happen in books, becasue it starts a ripple effect, people who didn't read the book will start citing that as the reason why they wont buy it, as time goes on the lie gets bigger and bigger, till something that small becomes something huge, or something that happens in one panel because the ONLY thing that happened in the book.

3.) John suggests Hawkgirl come with him and all of a sudden he's trying to proprosition her?

That's just people reaching, at MOST it's probably just a slight nod to JLU fans. The SECOND McDuffie was annouced as the writer some people were complaining about JLA turning into JLU, once it was shown John would be on the team people made up their mind from that point and began seeing things that aren't there....until John and Hawkgirl are seen spending time to together ALL the time or making googly eyes at each other, people need to calm the f^$k down.

It really just seems as if McDuffie is catching flack for his work on JLU (which was good) and then writing the JLA, and people over analyzing everything in his FIRST issue on the title simply because of the fact that he used to write on the cartoon show. Do people give Dini that kind of crap just because he used to work on Batman: TAS and now he's writing Detective Comics? I could see if McDuffie came along and completely changed the personalities of characters and wrote them just the way HE wanted to. But he's not doing that.

If anything Dini gets PRAISED for these things(and rightfully so), Mr Freeze was changed to resemble the animated version and people love that, hell Harley Quinn didn't existed in the animated universe before she ever appeared in the comic...But then again Dini isn't black and he's not brining in black characters, so he has no agenda (despite the fact that he dedicated a whole issue to the character HE created). Remember you have to have a damn good reason to bring black characters into any comic book, otherwise it's forced and pushing a P.C. agenda.

Moreover, on top of all that he catches uneccesary flack for including John Stewart on the team just because he's black. Why? Because McDuffie is black. Why does it always have to be a race thing? Why can't he just like the freaking character? All writers bring on characters they like and include them in stories while they're doing a team book. What's the difference here? Just because a black writer is utilizing a black character there has to be some kind of hidden agenda to stick it to the man? Get over yourselves.

It's not a race thing, it's just that he's a hack, an Emmy nominated hack who wrote critically acclaimed cartoons and comic books. A bum who knows nothing about the history of these charactes depsite the fact that he was an editor and writer for both DC and Marvel before Justice league or Static ever aired....It's not a race thing at all, that's all in your head. :rolleyes:

The whole reason characters like John Stewart are seen as "Token" characters is because they're used to sparangingly. And when one writer comes along and tries to change that with an oppurtunity to add more depth to him there's gotta be some kind of scheme on his part? This is no different than Bendis and his man-crush on Luke Cage. Actually, it's more reserved than that. If anything, we should be happy that a good writer came along with a pre-existing feel for the character and is trying to give him as much spotlight as possible without it looking like he's taking over the show. (*cough*MeltzerandRed Arrow*cough*)

I agree, no character is going to succeed until a writer uses them in a non half assed manner...By using the old "he/she is only a B/C-lister and doesn't deserve ___" excuse Booster Gold wouldn't have series right now, nor Iron Fist...It's good to try and build characters up.

And what's all the crap about John getting most of the spotlight this issue? People try and make it seem like this was John Stewart and the JLA, Batman got the first few pages, Superman and Vixen got some good page time, as did Green Lantern AND Black lightning......

uh oh, three black character appeared at once in a team book and actually spoke and got attention and another was mentioned as being very powerful. That's suspicious, there MUST be an agenda going on. :eek:

[carl kolchak]

Lineup aside, I thought that the book was fun. At least it flows now instead of just lying in the water like Metzer's run. The Bat stuff in the beginning was fun, but I would have liked to see more of it. Superman's talk with Vixen was a nice quiet moment that didn't seem forced.

It's not extraordinary, but it's a good book. The art hurts it though. The women just look like really bad Top Cow style (Legs twice the size as everything else).

[Xero]

I loved the issue, and DC finally has what Marvel had ten years ago in Priest's Black Panther, two black superheroes talking to each other like adults and contemporaries, and having fun while doing so. See also Luke Cage and Black Panther during Hudlin's run for more cool exchanges. DC's done it before way back in Ostrander's Suicide Squad, but it was nice to see it here.

BTW: If you want to see a breakout issue checkout Shadowpact #17 Doug Braithwaite's new style makes the book.

[Bruce Leroy]

I was so busy ranting I never said if I liked the issue or not. :o

unlike some apparently, I really liked Meltzer's run, I have no problem with internal monologue or seeing how much the league means to people, and I liked the Red Arrow moments (the only problem I have with it is that if ANY former Titan was deserving to be in it's Nightwing). While the crossover with JSA was confusing at times just becasue I didn't know a lot about the Legion at all, but I dug the tease of Barry coming back. All in all It was good to me, and I was kinda sad to hear Meltzer was going to be leaving the title.

Now, once McDuffie was annouced to be writing JLA I damn need did a backflip, I was both happy as a JLA fan that the title was getting a good writer and as a fan of McDuffie it's good to see him finally get so much attention from the big two.

The wedding issue was a good setup, a nice fun issue that got things rolling, though I think it was a mistake to esentially start McDuffie's run with this issue, a lot of people are going to be confused now (though there is a bit of a recap of what happened in JLA #13) as I've said before DC needs recap pages like Marvel has, one little page can make SUCH a difference for new readers.

Anyway, as for this issue, it was good, the art looked a little funky at times, but it's still quite good for the most part. The scenes with Batman being, well Batman were really cool, it's good that he didn't escape on his own because that would make the Injustice league look like less of a threat. I think Black Canary was acting as a good leader, having final say but still being open to listen to others ideas, also loved her beating down Dr. Light. I really liked the scene with Superman and Vixen, sometimes writers can make Superman come across as being judgemental and kind of a dick, but this was handled well, he showed concern and belief in Mari beyond just her powers. Again the Scene with John Stewart and Black Lightning was cool also, as Xero stated above it's always so cool to see two black superheroes interact like adult and do a little banter, it was hardly something out of a good times episode (which was said a certain poster, who then had the nerve to act as if someone called him racist they'd be wrong and overreacting :rolleyes: ). All in all it was a GOOD fun issue, I hope to see a bit more of Red Arrow next issue though.

[statnut]

Loved the issue, thought the art was just so-so though. Overall though, I cant wait for the next one.

[donna_fan]

I would generally buy anything drawn by Benitez. :(

[Proud Texan]

Damn, Spidey - that was one of the best posts I think that I've ever seen on Rama! Well done! :)

[ducktales23]

Anybody who doesn't respect John and his place in the JLA should read JLA 103 "Pain of the Gods - Emerald Warrior"

[donna_fan]

Anybody who doesn't respect John and his place in the JLA should read JLA 103 "Pain of the Gods - Emerald Warrior"

As opposed to the O'Neil/Adams GL/GA, or "Rebirth" or anything like that, right?

[Bruce Leroy]

As opposed to the O'Neil/Adams GL/GA, or "Rebirth" or anything like that, right?

John was impressive in Rebirth also, Rebirh gave all of earth's GL's some shine.

I actually really like Hal and was super excited to see him come back, but I also like John, Kyle, and Guy also....There's nothing wrong with John being on the JLA (like he's been before) It's not a slap in the face of Hal or his fans, it doesn't ruin the book or anything else for that matter. I could see people being upset if John showed up smacked up Hal and said "get to stepping honky" but nothing like that happened, Hal asked John to fill in for him because he'd be busy with other things (which he is).

[ducktales23]

As opposed to the O'Neil/Adams GL/GA, or "Rebirth" or anything like that, right?
yeah thats right

[donna_fan]

John showed up, and basically said "Get lost, Hal."

You're fine with it. I'm not.

[chap22]

John showed up, and basically said "Get lost, Hal."

You're fine with it. I'm not.
oh that's just ludicrous.:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

unwad your pretty pink panties, Jennifer...it was nothing like that.:p