JOE CASEY: YOUNGBLOOD’s NEW BLOOD

[MattBrady]

<a href=http://www.newsarama.com/ImageComics/youngblood/youngblood.html target=new><img src=http://www.newsarama.com/ImageComics/youngblood/youngblood_t.jpg align=right border=0></a>Continuing with our interview with the principle creators for the upcoming return of <b>Youngblood</b> to Image Comics, we talk with the architect behind the renovated <b>Youngblood</b> hardcover and writer of the upcoming new ongoing series, Joe Casey.

<b>Newsarama</b>: Okay Joe, so as we touched on with <a href=http://www.newsarama.com/ImageComics/youngblood/Liefeld.html>Rob</a> in part one of our interviews, we kind of already spoke about the original <b>Youngblood</b> series two years ago, in context of the <b>Maximum Youngblood</b> hardcover – so let’s do the Cliff Notes version. Correct us if we’re wrong - Original series, kinetic and full of energy, but lacking storytelling structure, but YOU see an idea there worth salvaging, and lend Rob your help.. That pretty much the story?

<b>Joe Casey</b>: Deja vu, man... I think I got this question two years ago...! Of course thanks to the wonders of the Net, you could probably link to that original Newsarama story right <a href=http://www.newsarama.com/Comic-Con_07/Image/founders.html>here</a>.

But, yeah, let's just say the first few issues of <b>Youngblood</b> were comics created by a bunch of young guys let loose for the first time. Rob's art aside, of <i>course</i> it was going to be a little rough going in the storytelling department. But wasn't that the whole Image vibe at the time? Very early 90's, if you think about it. Plenty of superhero comics made no sense back then.

Given that, I remember reading articles where Rob was pimping the book and thinking to myself that there were some good ideas there. I was slightly disappointed that the comic itself didn't really explore -- or, in some cases, even <i>contain</i> -- most of those ideas. I think a lot of other readers felt the same way, even though they were loyal fans (and still are, it seems). I think, with the benefit of hindsight, even Rob himself feels that way.

Now, with my gentle nudging, Rob gets a chance to put some of those ideas back in and present the book in the way he's always wanted to see it.

<b>NRAMA</b>: Given the original story was already released in <b>Maximum Youngblood</b>, tell us about what you think changed – from the original, to this new version? “It was X, and now it’s Y”... that sort of thing?

<b>JC</b>: All I'm doing is bringing some structure to the story, connecting a few narrative dots that were just screaming out to be connected. It's a more cohesive plotline now from beginning to end. And hopefully, the new dialogue will bring readers a little closer to the characters; flesh them out a little bit more.

Other than that, it's all abut clearing away the clutter so that the core concept can shine through. People who bought and read the <b>Maximum Youngblood</b> book already have a good idea of what's been realigned...

<b>NRAMA</b>: Now there has been a new change since that version, a new ending, right? What can you tell readers about that?

<b>JC</b>: Okay... the book that Rob put out two years ago that was simply the first issue of the series -- along with a few pages from the zero issue -- reshuffled, rescripted, and recolored. Rob always had the intention to have the whole thing -- the first five issues -- collected eventually. The new ending came from the simple fact that Rob didn't draw the final chapter of the first story arc.

<a href="http://www.newsarama.com/ImageComics/youngblood/ybmax02p01.jpg" target=new><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/ImageComics/youngblood/ybmax02p01_t.jpg" Border="0" align=left></a>My feeling was that, if people want the original <b>Youngblood</b>, then it should be all-Rob, all the time. So, based on the existing material, I came up with a different way to end the story, a much cleaner way, and Rob's drawing up a new eight pages or so to give the collection a proper finale.

I will say that the new ending is different enough from what was published in <b>Youngblood #5</b> that even readers of the original series will want to check this out... because it is a <i>new</i> ending, emphasizing different characters and different areas of the plot than the original.

<b>NRAMA</b>: Now the new series, explain it’s relation to the story in the hardcover? From a “continuity”/timeline standpoint? Do you play this new series as it takes place relatively soon following? Has a decade passed since?

<b>JC</b>: I'm not that uptight about continuity in this case. Basically, if you know the characters and the concept, you can come to the new monthly clean. If you've read everything the Youngblood characters have ever appeared in, then you can assume that those stories still happened. The only stuff I'm ignoring are <b>Imperial</b> and <b>Bloodsport</b>, because as of this interview, neither one are finished yet.

Okay, I'm ignoring <b>Babewatch</b>, too. The thing is, I'm not big on timelines... but, luckily, neither is Rob. We figure that, like any fictional universe, there's a sliding scale at work. The point is, Derec and I are just coming onboard to give this thing a little spit and polish and tell some <i>new</i> stories with these characters. We don't want to spend endless pages trying to reconcile things about past continuity that, honestly, might be tough to reconcile. That's what Wikipedia articles are for.

<b>NRAMA</b>: Now you’re also pulling in characters from subsequent takes on Youngblood, including takes on characters created by Alan Moore, right? So how much does the latter make you sweat creatively?

<b>JC</b>: Luckily for me, Alan Moore didn't stick around long enough to really make a completely indelible mark on the characters he brought to the party. Nonetheless, they're still great characters and Rob owns them so there was no way I wasn't going to use them.

<b>NRAMA</b>: But this all said, readers don’t need to go and try to find all those different series to get this, right?

<b>JC</b>: No, but they're certainly welcome to. They're still out there to be read. Of course, in my opinion, some are better than others. But those three-and-a-half Alan Moore/Steve Skroce issues are really great, fun superhero comics, and well worth tracking down. And, of course, <b>Babewatch</b> has to be seen to be believed...

<a href="http://www.newsarama.com/ImageComics/youngblood/ybmax02p11-12.jpg" target=new><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/ImageComics/youngblood/ybmax02p11-12_t.jpg" Border="0" align=right></a><b>NRAMA</b>: You want to maybe run through the line-up, and talk a little about each character?

<b>JC</b>: Well, I'm assuming people have seen both Derec and Rob's preview art, so the lineup is no secret. Shaft, Badrock, Cougar, Die Hard, Johnny Panic, Doc Rocket, and a new character who does have a familial connection to this universe of characters. That is our one secret and we're saving it for the actual book. And while I'm going to beg off the individual analysis for now, I can tell you that I put a fair amount of thought into this lineup. I had access to everyone in Rob's portfolio but I was going for a specific dynamic. I needed the right combination of characters and their personalities to make the stories we're telling work.

<b>NRAMA</b>: Joe, you have somewhat a cult following for what you did with <i>another</i> original Image property, <b>Wildcats</b> (which come to think of it, followed an Alan Moore version too), which was <i>very</i> different take on the source material – in varied ways. On that scale, how does this new <b>Youngblood</b> relate to say the <b>Youngblood</b> of the hardcover from a thematic/stylistic standpoint? This less of a departure than <b>Wildcats 3.0</b>?

<b>JC</b>: Yikes. <b>Wildcats</b> seems like a fuggin' lifetime ago... so I'd honestly never made that connection between the two properties until now. I have different interests now than I did then, so maybe that's why I still don't make the connection.

<b>Youngblood</b> will be straight-up superheroics, much more "mainstream" in its approach than <b>Wildcats</b> ever was. For better or for worse (and some would say for worse), I wrote <b>Wildcats</b> as a novel in comic book form, but <b>Youngblood</b> is geared specifically toward the monthly superhero reader. It's also a completely different gig than the hardcover re-script and other than a couple of shared characters, I'm flexing different muscles on each one.

<center><a href="http://www.newsarama.com/ImageComics/youngblood/ybmax02p13.jpg" target=new><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/ImageComics/youngblood/ybmax02p13_t.jpg" Border="0"></a> <a href="http://www.newsarama.com/ImageComics/youngblood/ybmax02p15.jpg" target=new><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/ImageComics/youngblood/ybmax02p15_t.jpg" Border="0" ></a> <a href="http://www.newsarama.com/ImageComics/youngblood/ybmax02p16.jpg" target=new><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/ImageComics/youngblood/ybmax02p16_t.jpg" Border="0" ></a></center>

<b>NRAMA</b>: So simply put, why does <b>Youngblood</b> endure?

<b>JC</b>: Mainly because, if anything, the fascination with celebrity in our culture has <i>grown</i> over the past fifteen years. Celebrity superheroes, in particular, was an idea that was still ahead of its time in 1992. Obviously, Rob wasn't the first guy to every think of this angle but he <i>was</i> one of the first American creators to make it the major hook within the overall concept.

Think of how many subsequent books have latched onto that... from <b>The Authority</b> to <b>X-Statix</b> to <b>The Ultimates</b>. I even dealt with it in <b>Automatic Kafka</b>. A good idea is a good idea.

Another reason, I think, is that a lot of fans of the characters really want to see them shine. Robert Kirkman is the unsung hero of this entire thing, he initially called me about possibly writing this book, and the reason he was willing to play intermediary in getting Rob and some of his properties back at Image was the simplest one of all: Kirkman's a fan. He spent his wayward teenage years reading the first wave of Image Comics and, for him, they hold a special place in his heart the way that Michelinie's <b>Avengers</b> holds a place in mine. Now that he's just a cheerleader, he's just as excited by what I'm coming up with. I think a lot of people feel the same way.

When this was first announced, I was honestly shocked by the response... how many people seemed to be rooting for a really solid <b>Youngblood</b> series they could read month-in, month-out. It all just seemed overwhelmingly positive for a change. So, at this point, Derec and I are just hoping to justify their enthusiasm by putting out the absolute best book we can.

Personally, I'm a nut for superhero team books, so I'm coming at this one with both barrels.

<b>NRAMA</b>: In the announcement Image’s Eric Stephenson made some comparisons to <b>The Authority</b> and <b>The Ultimates</b>? So you agree? And either way, what are you doing to make Youngblood <i>now</i>? Brand new?

<b>JC</b>: Obviously, I agree with the comparison, since I just made them myself. As for how I'm going to make the <b>Youngblood</b> concept work in 2008... well, people think they've seen celebrity superhero books before. But they haven't seen one like <i>this</i>. And I'm not saying that to be shocking... this book is not about shock, it's not about hot tub blow jobs. Writing scenes like that just ain't my bag, baby. And you won't find the kind of meta-commentary on the comics industry that previous, more recent versions of <b>Youngblood</b> have attempted.

It seems like everyone after Alan Moore has come at these characters with an approach chock full of "nudge-nudge, wink-wink" elements related to all kinds of Inside Comics knowledge.

This time around, we're going for more drama, more emotion relating to the characters themselves. We're not making a statement on the State of the Industry, we're telling a story.

On the celebrity side, I'm much more interested in exploring how these characters cope with the harsh light of fame. After all, you can be sitting at the top of the Famous List but that doesn't mean you still won't completely wig out someday, shave your head and attack people at a gas station with an umbrella. No one is immune to the pitfalls of being famous. And if superheroes really existed in the way they do in <b>Youngblood</b>, they'd turn TomKat and Brangelina into yesterday's news. The light would be even brighter. And it's pretty clear that the more famous you are, the tougher it's gotta' be.

Not only that, but there would be plenty of folks interested in keeping them as famous as possible. Aside from the kick-ass superheroics, <b>Youngblood</b> definitely deals with how the very concept of Celebrity is the snake that eats its own tail.

That, and lots of explosions.

[Wade Wilson]

First post! I am one of the few that will admit this I like Rob! I love Joe's work too his G.I.Joe: Americas Elite stuff was grand.

[Supreme Convoy]

That, and lots of explosions.

SOLD!

I'm looking forward to the new remastered Youngblood collection.

I wonder if they're going to produce more stories from the Moore run. I know the scripts are out there but I wonder if more penciled pages were done.

[FrostyFrog]

http://www.newsarama.com/ImageComics/youngblood/ybmax02p16.jpg

I swear, in the first panel, purple dude looks like he has 3 biceps or something.

[skeletorjr]

I think that's his mutant power. He's a triceptikon

[DiManna1]

The phrase "Shining a turd" springs to mind.

[btjs]

Aw, I like Joe Casey, I'll try it.

[LikeaPhoenix]

http://www.newsarama.com/ImageComics/youngblood/ybmax02p16.jpg

I swear, in the first panel, purple dude looks like he has 3 biceps or something.

...and it looks like he has no right shoulder bone. Also, where's his right elbow? Is he giving the blue and yellow dude an uppercut or a right to left punch??

And what's up with the 3-panels per page and all the opened mouths and carpet-like hair?

[Punchy]

I might actually buy this.

Godland crossover, Joe, you know it makes sense.

[GenerallZodd]

I'll give the new series a try cuz I'm a Casey fan, but I'm worried about the approach. It almost seems "dumbed down" on purpose for him.

[TerryX]

...and it looks like he has no right shoulder bone. Also, where's his right elbow? Is he giving the blue and yellow dude an uppercut or a right to left punch??

And what's up with the 3-panels per page and all the opened mouths and carpet-like hair?


No mention of how the woman has arms growing out of her neck?

All Liefeld art bashing aside (it can be fun, but it is really old) I will give the book a try because of Joe Casey writing it and that Rob isn't doing the art.

[guitargod694]

You people had Joe Casey in one place answering questions and didn't ask him why there have been no Godland solicitations for the last 4 months!

[LIEFELDISGOD]

The ongoing sounds great. There's really not enough Joe Casey comics out there.


I'm really interested in seeing what he does with the original mini too. Switching panels around and whatnot. The new ending sounds cool as well. I'm going to have to dig up the originals as I forgot how it ended in the first place.

[uscwamer]

...and it looks like he has no right shoulder bone. Also, where's his right elbow? Is he giving the blue and yellow dude an uppercut or a right to left punch??

And what's up with the 3-panels per page and all the opened mouths and carpet-like hair?

don't forget his stomach...just look at it. no i don't have anything cute or funny to say about it

it just doesnt make any sense

[Punchy]

don't forget his stomach...just look at it. no i don't have anything cute or funny to say about it

it just doesnt make any sense

It's superheroes.

They don't make any sense, on the most basic level.

[LIEFELDISGOD]

I swear, in the first panel, purple dude looks like he has 3 biceps or something.
...and it looks like he has no right shoulder bone. Also, where's his right elbow? Is he giving the blue and yellow dude an uppercut or a right to left punch??

And what's up with the 3-panels per page and all the opened mouths and carpet-like hair?



No mention of how the woman has arms growing out of her neck?

All Liefeld art bashing aside (it can be fun, but it is really old) I will give the book a try because of Joe Casey writing it and that Rob isn't doing the art.


don't forget his stomach...just look at it. no i don't have anything cute or funny to say about it

it just doesnt make any sense


The art's 15 years old. Pull up something you drew, or wrote, or created 15 years ago and see how well it holds up. :rolleyes:

[eric_image]

You people had Joe Casey in one place answering questions and didn't ask him why there have been no Godland solicitations for the last 4 months!

Joe and Tom are working to get GØDLAND ahead of schedule. Things were getting a little out of hand schedule-wise and no one wants to book shipping late. We'll be back when we can guarantee it's going to be on time, every time.

[Generic Eric]

You people had Joe Casey in one place answering questions and didn't ask him why there have been no Godland solicitations for the last 4 months!

That is frustating. What's the story behind this?

Joe Casey writing a government operative superhero book with attractive cartoonish art seems like a winning combination to me. I'll pass on the previous incarnations of Youngblood. This new series looks promising.

[Generic Eric]

[QUOTE]Joe and Tom are working to get GØDLAND ahead of schedule. Things were getting a little out of hand schedule-wise and no one wants to book shipping late. We'll be back when we can guarantee it's going to be on time, every time.[/QUOT

Cool to know.

[ThomasC22]

I don’t know, as much as I think some of his antics are annoying, I’m still a huge Liefeld fan and that art (anatomically incorrect as it is) has me really jazzed for the HC.

As a matter of fact, this is every fanboys dream in my opinion. You always have fond memories of the stories you loved as a kid but often times you go back and realize they weren’t all that well written. In this case, someone’s taking the story and rewriting it to make it good while still retaining the killer early 90s art. I honestly think I’ll end up buying this the day it comes out.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ll be buying it online so I don’t have to look anyone in the eye while I’m doing it but I’ll be buying it none the less.

(Please Note: This is not a sarcastic post…I swear. I really am excited)

[BornToRun]

First post! I am one of the few that will admit this I like Rob! I love Joe's work too his G.I.Joe: Americas Elite stuff was grand.

I'm a Liefeld fan. I used to make fun of him all the time in a comic I self-published, and at one point met him at a con and asked him to autograph a copy of a page where my character joked about "Liefeld feet." He did so and sketched a headshot of my character for me. That kind of personality and sense of humor will win over any reasonably open-minded fan, I think.

[Justin M. Campbell]

Okay, I'm ignoring <b>Babewatch</b>

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[TerryX]

The art's 15 years old. Pull up something you drew, or wrote, or created 15 years ago and see how well it holds up. :rolleyes:

Get over yourself dude. You love bad art, that is good for you. I never claimed I draw and dont need to in order to comment on someone that has.

As far as it being 15 years old, maybe so, but he has not improved with time.

:D

[DCON]

well.. the way i see it, Rob has a cool job working in what he loves and many of us wish we had a job doing what we love .... but many of us don't :)
I like the concept of youngblood and i might be picking this one up.

[NedPepper]

...and it looks like he has no right shoulder bone. Also, where's his right elbow? Is he giving the blue and yellow dude an uppercut or a right to left punch??

And what's up with the 3-panels per page and all the opened mouths and carpet-like hair?


It was the early 90's. Hairspray was still very much in style back then. The shaggy hair was actually kind of in style. Think of all of those really bad Hair Metal bands of the eighties. I think Cobain and Vedder were just on the threshold and about to change culture and style for good.

I'm digging Sentinel's crew cut with the lines shaved in the side of his head. It's like an old Will Smith haircut from his young days in rap. :D

[tim seeley]

this. looks. rad.
TIM

[SithCow]

Joe and Tom are working to get GØDLAND ahead of schedule. Things were getting a little out of hand schedule-wise and no one wants to book shipping late. We'll be back when we can guarantee it's going to be on time, every time.

Wouldn't you be better off simply firing/buying out Tom and hiring an artist who is totally committed to Godland instead of planning to also do a book with Scott Mills?

[Dreighton]

is all classic Liefeild, as others have pointed out. The purple guy is Prophet. One of the many that had the boxing head protector that Rob drew all the time.

As much people hate on him, Liefield, did have some great characters. And for some weird reason I also liked his art.....and his art sucked. It got stiffer and worse as he went along, but his X-Force stuff was fun

[Agent Wax]

...why?
Seriously.
Theres no need for more Youngblood.

[bobbydrake27]

My first taste of comics was youngblood and the Image stuff, I'll admit I love Rob Liefield work, I'll be pick up the new series.

[HNutz]

Not that big a fan of Rob, but I LOVE me some Joe Casey, so I'll check it out!



Hey, anyone know if he's still on G.I.Joe or if he's left for good?

[JimmyKitty]

What is up with all the Rob art comments....?

He is only drawing the covers for the new series, yet folks are talking about this version of Youngblood as if Rob is drawing all the interiors. Did I miss something in the newsarama pieces where it clearly said Rob is only doing the cover art? (to be honest, I may have... haha!)

I admit, Newsarama using interior art over a decade old doesn't help the situation. It would be nice to see some examples - even sketches - of the new stuff, but I'm gonna take a wait-and-see approach before making any comments on the new Youngblood.

And do we need a new Youngblood? Sure, why not?

[deadjacket]

Wouldn't you be better off simply firing/buying out Tom and hiring an artist who is totally committed to Godland instead of planning to also do a book with Scott Mills?

Yeah, beacuase that mini-series with Scott Mills that he started before Freedom Force, yet alone Gødland, is taking too much of his time.

sheesh.... give him a break.

[Thephanboy]

im lookin forward to this series and am glad the liefeld has think skin from these haters. i might make a joke from time to time but i buy his stuff and have supported his stuff since his first youngblood run. i repect him for doin something he loves, stickin by it through all the crap thrown his way, and still do it with a smile on his face. january cant come any sooner.

[Chakra Rebel]

Count me in among the many people who'll be picking up Joe Casey's Youngblood foray.
I loved it when Youngblood first hit the stands, and I can't wait to see where he takes them.
Thank you Rob for putting them into Joe Casey's capable hands. Thanks to Robert Kirkman for even suggesting this, and Joe thank you for being the man on tap.

[Del Gorky]

The art's 15 years old. Pull up something you drew, or wrote, or created 15 years ago and see how well it holds up. :rolleyes:


Yeah, well those Neal Adams comics are thirty years old and they still hold up very well. And Rob's current art hasn't evolved very much from these 15 year old pages. This art is garbage and the only reason it's coming back is money. Rob thinks it will make money as a nostalgia grab and Image is willing to try. I really like Joe Casey as a writer but supporting his run on Youngblood is probably asking too much of me as a buyer.

[deadjacket]

Why do so many people not realise that art is subjective. Different art styles appeal to different people.
If only people would enjoy stuff they liked. And leave people with a different taste to enjoy their art without abuse, to them OR the artist.

[johhnypanic]

...and it looks like he has no right shoulder bone. Also, where's his right elbow? Is he giving the blue and yellow dude an uppercut or a right to left punch??

And what's up with the 3-panels per page and all the opened mouths and carpet-like hair?

If you can't believe what you see in this pic then your not a comic fan! your just a nerd living in your moms basement! Lay off Leifeild!!!!!!

[NewChad]

Can Casey come back and finish off his Wildcast run? Please!!!!

[Hoffmeister]

The art's 15 years old. Pull up something you drew, or wrote, or created 15 years ago and see how well it holds up. :rolleyes:
I was thinking the same thing and I don't even LIKE Liefeld's art.

Yeah, well those Neal Adams comics are thirty years old and they still hold up very well. And Rob's current art hasn't evolved very much from these 15 year old pages.
The point isn't how old it is comparing it to Neal Adams art 15 years ago, it's comparing it to Liefeld. Something Neal Adams would draw today would look better than what he did 15 years ago, something I'd draw today would look better than what I drew 15 years ago - it's natural progression. Though he may not have evolved much in the past 15 years, he's still evolved, believe it or not.

[Luke M]

Can Casey come back and finish off his Wildcast run? Please!!!!

I AGREE! That was such an awesome series. Anyways, I am looking forward to this too. My hope is that when the new series comes out, it will be finished within a short amount of time. Still want to see Bloodsport finished.

[budpaul]

I was thinking the same thing and I don't even LIKE Liefeld's art.


The point isn't how old it is comparing it to Neal Adams art 15 years ago, it's comparing it to Liefeld. Something Neal Adams would draw today would look better than what he did 15 years ago, something I'd draw today would look better than what I drew 15 years ago - it's natural progression. Though he may not have evolved much in the past 15 years, he's still evolved, believe it or not.

Actually, I believe the word you meant to say was "devolved" as in Liefeld has devolved as an artist.
I hold up New Mutants #98-100 as the zenith of his artistic career. His work has gone downhill from there. It's just embarrassing at this point. I intentionally avoid books that he's involved in. See: hole in my Teen Titans collection.

[Jacentury]

I can't wait for the hardcover and the new series! I love Rob's art, have done for years, and I love Youngblood. If you don't think new Youngblood will be one of Image's biggest books of 2008 you are kidding yourself.

The 'blood is back and comics will never be the same again! Thanks to Rob, Joe and Derec for standing up to support this awesome comic :D

[Boxful]

"Original series, kinetic and full of energy, but lacking storytelling structure"

There was never a plot to any of those old Liefeld books. There never will be.
Simply having somebody add new words over that hackjob art will not make it 'finally perfect'.

No.
It will still just be a bunch of anatomically retarded angry crotchless guys jumping in the air.

But yes
I will still get a good laugh at seeing this crap online and how many people still flock to it like gold. It never gets old for me.

Keep it simple for the er... diehards. And if we start to lose them? More action lines! New words!

[industri]

Love... hate... I just like that he has full pages with absolutely NO backgrounds... there is no setting for this fight. Random space building? Hmmm...

I loved this stuff as a kid - but it screwed up my learning anatomy for a few years in high school for sure [smirk].

I'll look it over for nostalgia, but I don't think I need to re-own it...

[Sluggo]

"Something Neal Adams would draw today would look better than what he did 15 years ago, something I'd draw today would look better than what I drew 15 years ago - it's natural progression."

I see your point, but have you actually seen any of Neal Adams' recent art? I do not think it holds a candle to his stuff from the seventies. It's way too busy. I think he tampers too much with his art now, and as a result he muddies the beautiful, simple but dynamic linework and design that made him such a legend.

The art is still good, don't get me wrong, but not as good as before, in my opinion.

I'm afraid the same could be said about a lot of aging comic artists. Most artists reach a peak and then the quality starts to go downhill from there.

As a final point, I can't believe Neal Adams was even mentioned in the same post as Rob Liefeld. I also respect the man's enthusiasm and determination, but there is no doubt in my mind that his art represents everything bad about comics in the 1990s.

[guitargod694]

Joe and Tom are working to get GØDLAND ahead of schedule. Things were getting a little out of hand schedule-wise and no one wants to book shipping late. We'll be back when we can guarantee it's going to be on time, every time.

Thank you for the reply. I sort of figured that was the case, but I hadn't read/heard anything about it and was getting concerned.

Wouldn't you be better off simply firing/buying out Tom and hiring an artist who is totally committed to Godland instead of planning to also do a book with Scott Mills?

I don't think Godland would be nearly as awesome without Tom. I'd rather wait a while than see them replace Tom, that's for damn sure.

[protonik]

First post! I am one of the few that will admit this I like Rob! I love Joe's work too his G.I.Joe: Americas Elite stuff was grand.

There are more than a few...

[Dilutral]

I really want to see new art...
I love Joe Casey's writting but I'm not sure about the new artist...
haven't seen anything from him beside the Youngblood pinup
and in that drawing Badrock looks to thin.

I hope the next Youngblood story has new art!

[protonik]

...why?
Seriously.
Theres no need for more Youngblood.

Because some of us actually.... :eek: ..... like the characters and the concept and.... :eek: ..... want to read more about them!!!!

[protonik]

Yeah, well those Neal Adams comics are thirty years old and they still hold up very well. And Rob's current art hasn't evolved very much from these 15 year old pages. This art is garbage and the only reason it's coming back is money. Rob thinks it will make money as a nostalgia grab and Image is willing to try. I really like Joe Casey as a writer but supporting his run on Youngblood is probably asking too much of me as a buyer.


No way! Someone is out to make money? You have GOT to be kidding me? WHy Rob, WHY OH WHY WOULD YOU TRY TO MAKE MONEY!!! *sobs*


:rolleyes:

[rob liefeld]

Joe Casey is perfect for this series and he complements the previous all star roster of Alan Moore, Mark Millar, Kurt Busiek, and Robert Kirkman. All stellar talents with unique voices and great storytelling talents.

Joe's ideas are fantastic, Youngblood will stand out on the shelves with it's deep well of creative twists and pop concepts that Casey has planned.

Thanks to all the vocal support that has emerged for the new Youngblood.

I do several conventions a year, the characters and comic book I'm asked about the most is Youngblood hands down. For years people have asked for a new Youngblood series and now with Joe and Derek's commitment to the new title, the fans of Youngblood will have the title they have been requesting.

For the record, Youngblood Bloodsport and Imperial both take place well into the future. Bloodsport is further, 15 years into the future.


rob

[rob liefeld]

I know the ever dwindling group of haters believes that their non-vote counts, but here I am 20 years into my comics career, looking forward to 20 more years. What's a hater to do?

I'm built Ram-tough people.

The career I've enjoyed thus far is the result of the support of the fans who have continually invested in and followed my career. Without the interest of the fans, I would certainly not be around toady.


Don't miss Casey and Donovan's new Youngblood!

[NickVinson]

New Youngblood! That will more than likely keep to a set schedule! And its a Joe Casey comic?

Sold.

I have waited for this day.

Forget you lot of abject curmudgeons. I'm with Kirkman on this. Youngblood all the way.

If you aren't going to buy this book, and you do not like Mr. Leifeld's art to begin with why oh why are you wasting your time with bashing him/it? Take that time and do something constructive. Like creating something of your own that is of worth. Or reading things that make your day better. Instead of being a large turd on society.

-N

[Clint H]

I for one am glad Youngblood is back. Can't wait to see the new series. Congrats to everyone involved!

[rob liefeld]

Forget you lot of abject curmudgeons. I'm with Kirkman on this. Youngblood all the way.

If you aren't going to buy this book, and you do not like Mr. Leifeld's art to begin with why oh why are you wasting your time with bashing him/it? Take that time and do something constructive. Like creating something of your own that is of worth. Or reading things that make your day better. Instead of being a large turd on society.




I'll answer that.

A) Because they and/or their retailer pal pronounced all things Liefeld uncool and dead years ago and can't believe it didn't turn out that way!

B) The " He got thrown out of Marvel" thing doesn't go very far anymore.

C) The " He got thrown out of Image" has even less traction nowadays.

D) They never read anything Youngblood or Liefeld related in the first place, they're all 14 years old and think it's "kewl" to bash.

E) All of the above.

[KJ_81]

Hell, I've got no problem admitting I'd leave to see Rob visit Australia so I could have the opportunity to get a Youngblood convention sketch, and thank him personally for the entertainment he's given me.
I enjoy many different comics of many different genres, and Youngblood fills a nice entertainment niche nicely. It's like a summer action movie, I can just sit down and be entertained.

[edyhdrawde]

I know the ever dwindling group of haters believes that their non-vote counts, but here I am 20 years into my comics career, looking forward to 20 more years. What's a hater to do?

I'm built Ram-tough people.

The career I've enjoyed thus far is the result of the support of the fans who have continually invested in and followed my career. Without the interest of the fans, I would certainly not be around toady.


Don't miss Casey and Donovan's new Youngblood!


Good for you, sir. You are doing something you love and making a living at it. Keep it up.

[ERoy]

Good for you, sir. You are doing something you love and making a living at it. Keep it up.

Absolutely correct. I would guess a great majority of the people who seemingly want to do nothing but bash do so partially out of jealousy.

Count me in for more Youngblood.

[NedPepper]

I'll answer that.

A) Because they and/or their retailer pal pronounced all things Liefeld uncool and dead years ago and can't believe it didn't turn out that way!
.


Hey, my retailers loved you. They got mad when I told them to stop putting anything Youngblood related into my pull box. They even tried again with Alan Moore thinking there'd be no way I could say no. Sadly...

So, I'm basically saying, it's all subjective. A lot of retailers made some money off of you, Rob. Back in the speculator days of early Image and shiny cardboard covers. But what I enjoyed as a kid, I didn't enjoy as a teen and adult.

It's like rewatching Thundercats now. You don't realize how f'n awful it really was...but you sure as hell loved it as a kid. MUUUMMRAAA!

Ahem. Anyway.

[budpaul]

Hey, my retailers loved you. They got mad when I told them to stop putting anything Youngblood related into my pull box. They even tried again with Alan Moore thinking there'd be no way I could say no. Sadly...

So, I'm basically saying, it's all subjective. A lot of retailers made some money off of you, Rob. Back in the speculator days of early Image and shiny cardboard covers. But what I enjoyed as a kid, I didn't enjoy as a teen and adult.

It's like rewatching Thundercats now. You don't realize how f'n awful it really was...but you sure as hell loved it as a kid. MUUUMMRAAA!

Ahem. Anyway.

Well said. I guess my big problem with his art is that while it was kind of cool and different back in the day, over time he seemed disinterested in growing as an artist and instead fell into some really bad habits and never recovered. And this isn't just Rob-hating. I say the exact same thing about no less a luminary than John Byrne. I used to love his stuff - really well done. I remember back around 1990-91 I was showing my girlfriend and issue of Namor that I just thought was so amazing because it had such realism and detail. I look at his current stuff and it's like he doesn't care anymore.
Perhaps it's something that just happens to some artists as they're asked to punch out work year after year. After all, it's not like Da Vinci was asked to produce 22 pages every month for a decade. Not that I would ever think to compare Leonardo's mastery of the human form with Liefeld's um ... interpretation.

[Imaginary]

Finish a project and finish it on time then we'll talk about ordering more than 5 copies.

[mikeyg]

Well said. I guess my big problem with his art is that while it was kind of cool and different back in the day, over time he seemed disinterested in growing as an artist and instead fell into some really bad habits and never recovered. And this isn't just Rob-hating. I say the exact same thing about no less a luminary than John Byrne. I used to love his stuff - really well done. I remember back around 1990-91 I was showing my girlfriend and issue of Namor that I just thought was so amazing because it had such realism and detail. I look at his current stuff and it's like he doesn't care anymore.
Perhaps it's something that just happens to some artists as they're asked to punch out work year after year. After all, it's not like Da Vinci was asked to produce 22 pages every month for a decade. Not that I would ever think to compare Leonardo's mastery of the human form with Liefeld's um ... interpretation.

I feel the opposite about Liefelds new stuff. I think he puts alot into his current work. He is working without an inker now, everything you see is his pencils, that is how tight his pencils are.

If you were to put up examples of his work over the course of his career you can cleary see evolution in his style. His style has drastically changed over the years, but when you look at a liefeld pic you still always know who drew it, its very unique. you cant say that for many artists. Thats one of the reasons I love his work so much.

[User Name]

The art's 15 years old. Pull up something you drew, or wrote, or created 15 years ago and see how well it holds up. :rolleyes:

I didn't get paid for anything I drew 15 years ago. I didn't release anything I drew 15 years ago for public consumption and review.

[Caleb Gerard]

Wasn't it Rob who was down on the Image anniversary book because of the format being cost prohibitive to the old fans it was produced for?
Just curious.

That said I'm a superhero fan and especially a superhero TEAM fan... I'll be there for the new series but not the expensive hardcover.

CJG

[MR2007]

Just to toss this out for thought for everyone... you want to know what seems to hook so many people about Rob's artwork even in today's "everything has to be photo-realistic" era of comics? It's the energy that's in the pages... if you look at the early stuff that Rob did (New Mutants, XForce, Youngblood, etc.), and try not to play armchair art critic about his anatomical inconsistency, you'll see that what really comes across from his pages is a really lighthearted, very forward energy that almost springs off the pages... you almost feel like the guy who's drawing the panels was so excited about WHAT he was drawing that he couldn't wait to finish each panel so he could get to the next one.

Does that make sense to anyone here? Look at some of the titles published today and pick out what you consider to be (on first viewing) to be a poorly drawn comic and a comic with great art. Don't gravitate to the names (McNiven, Finch, Lee, Ross, etc.) that are popular right now... but just look at the pages and see if you feel excitement coming from them when you look through the comics. You might be surprised at what you discover... that some comics are coming across as visually "boring" due to a lack of energy in the pages, regardless of how realistic or finely-tuned they are drawn...and that it's the writer who is really selling the pages (as opposed to the ideal situation of having a team of writer and artist who compliment each other to the benefit of all).

Now... since I know that Liefeld himself is actually posting in this message forum I put this question out to him:

Rob, what happened back there? Towards the end of the 90s your artwork started to lose that energy...that fun-factor... and I think that's what kinda turned some people off to your stuff (that and the rise of the Liefeld-hater clubs)... I know that you were going thru some major issues at the time (Image, family, etc.)- but when the Heroes Reborn stuff came out from Marvel Comics and you got involved I saw the old Liefeld come back again. Your Captain America and Avengers work started to have the same energy of your older stuff and then when you lost that gig I started to see that your artwork had the feeling of someone who had become a little disillusioned with comics. I'm not sure if there's a question here or not... but I'm just wondering if you could shed some light on this.

Am I seeing this correctly? Am I the only one who notices these things? Perhaps I should stop eating late-night Taco Bell because it makes me see bizarre things in comic books? LOL

[Generic Eric]

Does that make sense to anyone here?

Yes, Rob had some fierce enthusiasm for drawing comics back in the day.

[rob liefeld]

Wasn't it Rob who was down on the Image anniversary book because of the format being cost prohibitive to the old fans it was produced for?
Just curious.

That said I'm a superhero fan and especially a superhero TEAM fan... I'll be there for the new series but not the expensive hardcover.

CJG

Apples and oranges fella.

This new hardcover is over 175 pages in content. The price is comparable with all similar Hard cover, over sized compellations.



rob

[rob liefeld]

Just to toss this out for thought for everyone... you want to know what seems to hook so many people about Rob's artwork even in today's "everything has to be photo-realistic" era of comics? It's the energy that's in the pages... if you look at the early stuff that Rob did (New Mutants, XForce, Youngblood, etc.), and try not to play armchair art critic about his anatomical inconsistency, you'll see that what really comes across from his pages is a really lighthearted, very forward energy that almost springs off the pages... you almost feel like the guy who's drawing the panels was so excited about WHAT he was drawing that he couldn't wait to finish each panel so he could get to the next one.

Does that make sense to anyone here? Look at some of the titles published today and pick out what you consider to be (on first viewing) to be a poorly drawn comic and a comic with great art. Don't gravitate to the names (McNiven, Finch, Lee, Ross, etc.) that are popular right now... but just look at the pages and see if you feel excitement coming from them when you look through the comics. You might be surprised at what you discover... that some comics are coming across as visually "boring" due to a lack of energy in the pages, regardless of how realistic or finely-tuned they are drawn...and that it's the writer who is really selling the pages (as opposed to the ideal situation of having a team of writer and artist who compliment each other to the benefit of all).

Now... since I know that Liefeld himself is actually posting in this message forum I put this question out to him:

Rob, what happened back there? Towards the end of the 90s your artwork started to lose that energy...that fun-factor... and I think that's what kinda turned some people off to your stuff (that and the rise of the Liefeld-hater clubs)... I know that you were going thru some major issues at the time (Image, family, etc.)- but when the Heroes Reborn stuff came out from Marvel Comics and you got involved I saw the old Liefeld come back again. Your Captain America and Avengers work started to have the same energy of your older stuff and then when you lost that gig I started to see that your artwork had the feeling of someone who had become a little disillusioned with comics. I'm not sure if there's a question here or not... but I'm just wondering if you could shed some light on this.

Am I seeing this correctly? Am I the only one who notices these things? Perhaps I should stop eating late-night Taco Bell because it makes me see bizarre things in comic books? LOL


I'm sorry...I just don't see what you are not seeing. I really enjoyed the Fighting American, Re:Gex and Cable and Wolverine work in ended the 90's with.

Thanks for caring enough to ask, though. I appreciate the inquiry.



rob

[MR2007]

I'm sorry...I just don't see what you are not seeing. I really enjoyed the Fighting American, Re:Gex and Cable and Wolverine work in ended the 90's with.

Thanks for caring enough to ask, though. I appreciate the inquiry.



rob

Thanks for the response Rob... I'm sorry that I didn't actually remember the Fighting American and Cable work you referred to... but now that I think about it some more (and it's not 1am when I'm writing and I've actually slept a little) I enjoyed those things too. Maybe it's just a case of projection on my part (or maybe I really should avoid those late-night urges for Taco Bell LOL)...

I've done some work with smaller publishers and have been out of the "industry" for about seven years now... but I've done some work here and there for people on comission... and when I'm not really jazzed about the work I feel like I don't put that little extra piece of "me" into the project. I believe that it's true that every artist (painter, illustrator, writer, musician, etc.) puts a little piece of themselves into their art every time. I guess the point I was trying to make was that it really does come across when the artist is really enjoying what they're doing... and that's what always made me enjoy your work... you made comics fun to read... and for that I thank you!

Anyways... just my two cents worth... thanks for responding to the inquiry... but I do have another one though... I remember an interview from a few years ago about you talking about the downward spiral of comics into "darkness" and more sinister themes and that you and your company were doing your part to present a different feel by doing more light-hearted comics (I think this was around the time that you had Alan Moore doing Supreme)... any comments or thoughts about comics today? Do you think the industry has changed any for the better?

Thanks again!

- Mark

[Chtrav]

ManohMAN.....

You people have nothing better to do than look like a so-called funnyman by actually taking the time to critique the art in a hateful manner?

Get a hobby.

You guys (haters) should actually SIT DOWN and work out how much TIME you devote to all this bashing and thinking you're the cool guy by doing so, and then come to the horrifying realization of how much time you lost.

Sad sad SAD.

[Templar1305]

Why do so many people not realise that art is subjective. Different art styles appeal to different people.
If only people would enjoy stuff they liked. And leave people with a different taste to enjoy their art without abuse, to them OR the artist.


So, if Jack Kirby was Rob's age, people would be all Hatorade over the zig zags in the anatomy and radical foreshortening?
LOL...

Kirby anatomy is even WORSE than Rob's yet, where are all the Kirby haters?

The same thing makes both guys great cartoonists in my opinion, they put a LOT of excitement and energy on the page, and isn't that what Superhero comics are about?

[AnthonyL]

...why?
Seriously.
Theres no need for more Youngblood

Yeah. No need for more X-Men or Spider-Man either. Hate that crap, pull it off the shelves now! And while you're at it, get rid of Superman and Batman. And do we really need another Green Lantern book? There's what, 2 or three of them now? Geez. And don't get me started on Avengers.

I don't care if anybody likes any of that stuff, it should just go away because I said so.

So, if Jack Kirby was Rob's age, people would be all Hatorade over the zig zags in the anatomy and radical foreshortening?


According to quite a few editors I've talked to over the years that worked with Jack, he WAS criticized over and over again. People sent hate mail on a regular basis complianing about Kirby traits such as squiggly lines for knees and such.

There just wasn't an internet back then, so the public never got to see the hate.

Of course, now he's a legend (a legend who had high praise for Rob Liefeld and Extreme Studios, actually). But it wasn't all glory for the King.

As for Rob's art becoming non-energetic towards the end of the 90's, I have to disagree. His Marvel work and his Awesome Entertainement stuff was some of the best he's ever done. Re-Gex still is one of my favorite books by Rob.

Anthony L

[Greygor]

The good thing about a thread concerning anything at all to do with Liefeld is that you can pull up a chair, put a jug of mint julip on the table beside you, fold your arms behind your head and just wait for the hate to unfold.

It's predictable, it's uniformed, it often twists the truth, it's sometimes funny and sooner or later Rob will show up and in a few lines deflate most of the arguments.

Youngblood was a fun concept, it remains so, Casey is a good writer, and hopefully will remain so. Put the two together and I'm looking forward to this;

Rob will do the covers

Joe will write the book

And someone (has he/she been named?) will draw it.

Finally I, my friends, will lay out my cash, read and enjoy it.

And you know what it doesn't matter a tinker's cuss what you write about Mr. Liefeld and his past or present work, because I'm the only one who decides what I like and don't like.

My 2 cents worth (or indeed centimos over here)

[doboy1]

Rob Liefeld is the most hated artist in comics for no reason.He is great at creating characters second only to kirby,if you dont like the man, then dont buy his stuff.But you will because your afraid to miss something good.

[Generic Eric]

This thread is kind of civil for a Rob Liefeld thread. 3 to 4years ago this thread would be 20 pages long and locked already. I think most of the hatets left must just of got back into comics in recent years. most people whom hate Rob's art have got over it by now.

Kirby anatomy is even WORSE than Rob's yet, where are all the Kirby haters

People need to stop comparing Liefeld to Kirby. It's just retarded.

[Generic Eric]

He is great at creating characters second only to kirby,if you dont like the man, then dont buy his stuff.But you will because your afraid to miss something good.

I'm sorry but I believe you are talking out of your Ass.

The New Gods saga was one or two years of Kirby's career. Those creations alone equals what Rob Liefeld created in his entire career.Do the rest of the math yourself. I believe Wikipedia will give you a better scope of Jak Kirby's career and creations.

[doboy1]

Everybody who loves kirby always brings up the new gods.But those characters are boring as hell and DC rarely uses them.But I bet you MARVEL uses liefield characters all the time.Grant Morrison damn near changed all of them in that maxi series he had.Why?because they suck.The only one thats useful is DARKSEID the rest you can throw away.

[Generic Eric]

Everybody who loves kirby always brings up the new gods.But those characters are boring as hell and DC rarely uses them.But I bet you MARVEL uses liefield characters all the time.Grant Morrison damn near changed all of them in that maxi series he had.Why?because they suck.The only one thats useful is DARKSEID the rest you can throw away.

Yes I was comparing Liefelds career heights & creations to Jack Kirby's lesser works.

[AnthonyL]

People need to stop comparing Liefeld to Kirby. It's just retarded.

Yes I was comparing Liefelds career heights & creations to Jack Kirby's lesser works.


So are YOU retarded for comparing Jack Kirby's lesser works to Liefeld's career heights?

Just curious.

Anthony L

[doboy1]

Man give it up everybody knows the new gods suck.You can do a hell of alot more with earth based characters than you can withouter space ____.Comic fans on a whole really dont care about outer space stuff unless its written by the great Jim Starlin.

[AnthonyL]

Since we are off-topic anyway, isn't Starlin penning the death of the new gods as part of countdown this year?

Anyway, there are comparison's to be made about Rob Liefeld and Jack Kirby, but I don't really care at this point. In case anybody's forgotton, this is about Joey Casey and his reviving of the Youngblood franchise at Image comics...all Rob is doing is the covers. This is the Joe Casey show,and I think people need to settle down about Rob when, in this case, Rob is isn't even a major part of it.

Now, if this were Rob on art or story or both, steering the direction of the series, I could understand that. But Rob's putting a creative team on the book and letting them run with it.

Makes me think that a lot of people just read a little bit of the title and the first part of the article and went into automatic "hate on Rob" mode.

Chill out guys, this was old 10 years ago.

Anthony L

[doboy1]

I love liefeld from way back I dont know why people hate him so much.And yes the great Jim Starlin is doing the death of the new gods like I said hes the only creator who can make outer space stuff interesting.And what is he doing hes getting rid of them.But I bet you darkseid will still be around.

[doboy1]

Oh and Ron Marz.

[mrpoizun]

And what's up with the 3-panels per page and all the opened mouths and carpet-like hair?
Welcome to Rob Liefeld's world.

[mikeyg]

The thing about most of this current crop of haters, is that they are too young to have even ever read Liefeld stuff back in the day, they just jumped on a bandwagon, and started hating.

Rob Liefeld is one of the greatest creators in the comic industry ever. That is a fact that can not be disputed. He has created iconic characters, which have stuck around and marvel and now image continue to publish to this day.

[doboy1]

Im gonna go get my giant 10 foot tall liefeld gun and blow all you haters away.Me and Mikeyg will be the last men standing.

[mikeyg]

Im gonna go get my giant 10 foot tall liefeld gun and blow all you haters away.Me and Mikeyg will be the last men standing.

I already am the last man standing...in the future, dont you know, I had to travel back in time to defend all things liefeld. So went the legend of mikeyg. :D

[michaelj]

is all classic Liefeild, as others have pointed out. The purple guy is Prophet. One of the many that had the boxing head protector that Rob drew all the time.

As much people hate on him, Liefield, did have some great characters. And for some weird reason I also liked his art.....and his art sucked. It got stiffer and worse as he went along, but his X-Force stuff was fun


i agree, x-force was great. i did like his work at the end of the new mutants as well.
i still remember the x-force issue that he did x-force fighting black tom and the juggernaut. very cool.

[michaelj]

I'll answer that.

A) Because they and/or their retailer pal pronounced all things Liefeld uncool and dead years ago and can't believe it didn't turn out that way!

B) The " He got thrown out of Marvel" thing doesn't go very far anymore.

C) The " He got thrown out of Image" has even less traction nowadays.

D) They never read anything Youngblood or Liefeld related in the first place, they're all 14 years old and think it's "kewl" to bash.

E) All of the above.


A. probably a great deal of truth in this. just not in my case

B. " He got thrown out of Marvel" - never cared, loved the original x-force and new mutants work.

C." He got thrown out of Image"- never cared, checked out young blood, never got into it, did like other image work

D. read quite a bit of liefeld, not 14 years old, never jumped on any "kewl" bandwagon.

E. sorry rob, but your little list is wrong. the attitude of -people like it becuase im good, people hate it because they suck- is wrong. have you actually read any of the posts or threads that these "haters" have posted in? have you seen the art work that gets put up in these threads and made fun of?

i guess when you put up a great pic of cable its because your great, but when you put out a pic of captain america with anna nicole smith breasts its us being 14 year old kids who have never seen liefeld work and jumping on a "kewl" bandwagon that promotes rob liefeld hate.

oh no it could never be that somehow you might have put out sub par art, it could never be that. it must be us not being sophisticated or cool enough to see the greatness in wondergirl with a porn star package, and it must be our lack of realising "artistic creativity" when kid flash appears as a eunich.

come on man, you dont think that maybe just a little bit that you deserve to have a little of this bashing, that you havent earned in even the slightest degree?

you put out over 100 percent quality on one project and on another maybe 20 percent and then actually wonder why we post what we post?

hey i dont mind somebody getting defensive about their work, but dont claim that its all us when some of the things that you have put out over the years has turned into the laughing stock of the internet.

[doboy1]

Laughing stock?only to you liefeld haters,The new Killraven is going to kick major ass.The man basically invented image comics ROB LIEFELD is going down in comics history whether you like it or not.And its partly you haters fault your the ones who make him contraversial.A hundred years from now they will be writing books about liefeld.About how he was kirbys succesor.But nobody knew it until he was gone.I cant wait for the first x-force movie.Its gotta happen marvels makin movies out of all those b grade characters ,rob liefeld characters on the big screen is money in the bank ca ching you haters cant stand in the way of history.

[michaelj]

Laughing stock?only to you liefeld haters,The new Killraven is going to kick major ass.The man basically invented image comics ROB LIEFELD is going down in comics history whether you like it or not.And its partly you haters fault your the ones who make him contraversial.A hundred years from now they will be writing books about liefeld.About how he was kirbys succesor.But nobody knew it until he was gone.I cant wait for the first x-force movie.Its gotta happen marvels makin movies out of all those b grade characters ,rob liefeld characters on the big screen is money in the bank ca ching you haters cant stand in the way of history.


1. do you or anbody that comments on my posts actually read them. ive stated many times that with the exception of these few threads i have never contributed or added to any of the "hater" threads that have been created. i have only stated my honest oppinion and shared them with others that felt the same way.

2. i hope the new killraven series does good, ive never stated that rob liefeld shouldnt be working, ive never stated that he doesnt deserve credit. i only stated in the last post that while he admits that he has done so well in the last 20 years in comics, dont insult the fans that dont like his work as if they are the ones that have the problems. his attitude, wich is the attitude of many here is that "you like me it means im great, you dont like me because your not great"

rob liefeld calls these fans that hate his work followers and 14 year olds that are jumping on the "hate liefeld bandwagon", like i said before, defending your work is one thing, but sounding as if all those who dont like his are immature people who are doing it just to sound "kewl" or that they have no concept of his art work at all. it seems that its ok for rob and the rest of you to take credit for the good and shuck responsability for the bad.

and since you brought up killraven so will i, i think it kicked ass. nice piece of work. and it raises the same point that i have been making and the one point that none of you have yet to argue with someting other then "your a hater, your a hater". and that point is this: rob can do great art on one project, and sub par art the next. killraven is great. cap was not. please explain that


and do you seriously believe that i am alone in this way of thinking, the problem with you people is that you actually think that out of all the millions of people that use the internet there must be just one lone guy out there that has taken the time to visit all these websites and post liefeld hate threads, just one lone person who has taken the time to find this art work and make fun of, that it must be only one, maybe two people who have created all the seperate and various screen names and logged on as different people just to make fun of liefeld. it must be that way because the only other option is that leifeld really has screwed up and that there really are people out there that dont like his art work and that kind of scenario is impossible, and there fore you must condemn anybody who isnt a liefeld fan or finds fault with some of his projects.

and as for it being our faults that the man gets talked about? no its not, we didnt draw that screwed up cap, we didnt draw those titans issues, we didnt do any of the things that rob liefeld gets talked about for, what we have done is discuss it and share out oppinions, and the biggest problem is that it doesnt agree with your oppinion. its ok to post if its in praisal of the man but not in negativity. .

like i said before, the attitude seems to be that everybody likes him, very few do not. when im good its me rob liefeld, when im bad its you the reader.

[mikeyg]

1. do you or anbody that comments on my posts actually read them. ive stated many times that with the exception of these few threads i have never contributed or added to any of the "hater" threads that have been created. i have only stated my honest oppinion and shared them with others that felt the same way.

2. i hope the new killraven series does good, ive never stated that rob liefeld shouldnt be working, ive never stated that he doesnt deserve credit. i only stated in the last post that while he admits that he has done so well in the last 20 years in comics, dont insult the fans that dont like his work as if they are the ones that have the problems. his attitude, wich is the attitude of many here is that "you like me it means im great, you dont like me because your not great"

rob liefeld calls these fans that hate his work followers and 14 year olds that are jumping on the "hate liefeld bandwagon", like i said before, defending your work is one thing, but sounding as if all those who dont like his are immature people who are doing it just to sound "kewl" or that they have no concept of his art work at all. it seems that its ok for rob and the rest of you to take credit for the good and shuck responsability for the bad.

and since you brought up killraven so will i, i think it kicked ass. nice piece of work. and it raises the same point that i have been making and the one point that none of you have yet to argue with someting other then "your a hater, your a hater". and that point is this: rob can do great art on one project, and sub par art the next. killraven is great. cap was not. please explain that


and do you seriously believe that i am alone in this way of thinking, the problem with you people is that you actually think that out of all the millions of people that use the internet there must be just one lone guy out there that has taken the time to visit all these websites and post liefeld hate threads, just one lone person who has taken the time to find this art work and make fun of, that it must be only one, maybe two people who have created all the seperate and various screen names and logged on as different people just to make fun of liefeld. it must be that way because the only other option is that leifeld really has screwed up and that there really are people out there that dont like his art work and that kind of scenario is impossible, and there fore you must condemn anybody who isnt a liefeld fan or finds fault with some of his projects.

and as for it being our faults that the man gets talked about? no its not, we didnt draw that screwed up cap, we didnt draw those titans issues, we didnt do any of the things that rob liefeld gets talked about for, what we have done is discuss it and share out oppinions, and the biggest problem is that it doesnt agree with your oppinion. its ok to post if its in praisal of the man but not in negativity. .

like i said before, the attitude seems to be that everybody likes him, very few do not. when im good its me rob liefeld, when im bad its you the reader.

you care too much hater, go to bed.

[doboy1]

I know a supergeek like you never watches or participates in sports.But I will give this analogy and hope that you will try to understand.Im a big time basketball fan I like to watch I played back in high school.Sometimes your just on we use to call it being hot it felt like you couldnt miss,there was no explanation for it maybe you were having a good day maybe you were just lucky maybe the stars were aligned.But your just in the zone and you just have a good day.This is probaly goes on with liefeld since he is freehanded artist his artwork is not going to be stunning all the time because he does not use refrence.Like Alex Ross Jae Lee Bryan Hitch Greg Land those guys actually look at real people when they draw.They pose them they use photography.They have costumes and props and all kinds of stuff.So yeah that ____ looks perfect.That guy who used to do punisher covers scans people into a computer and traces over them Bradstreet.But to me none that stuff is real drawing to me thats like copying.Rob draws from his mind and his heart what you see on the page is his totally unique vision.It is not reality and to me comics should be more than reality a place you can only go to in your imagination.But somebody who does that is gonna have bad days cause everthings not planned out same with kirby. Same with micheal jordan he had bad games but hes still the greatest because he was so creative with the basketball.Think about this all those perfect artist ive named before how many characters have they created.What have they left behind for the next generation and then think about what liefeld has left behind nothing but creation.

[michaelj]

I know a supergeek like you never watches or participates in sports.But I will give this analogy and hope that you will try to understand.Im a big time basketball fan I like to watch I played back in high school.Sometimes your just on we use to call it being hot it felt like you couldnt miss,there was no explanation for it maybe you were having a good day maybe you were just lucky maybe the stars were aligned.But your just in the zone and you just have a good day.This is probaly goes on with liefeld since he is freehanded artist his artwork is not going to be stunning all the time because he does not use refrence.Like Alex Ross Jae Lee Bryan Hitch Greg Land those guys actually look at real people when they draw.They pose them they use photography.They have costumes and props and all kinds of stuff.So yeah that ____ looks perfect.That guy who used to do punisher covers scans people into a computer and traces over them Bradstreet.But to me none that stuff is real drawing to me thats like copying.Rob draws from his mind and his heart what you see on the page is his totally unique vision.It is not reality and to me comics should be more than reality a place you can only go to in your imagination.But somebody who does that is gonna have bad days cause everthings not planned out same with kirby. Same with micheal jordan he had bad games but hes still the greatest because he was so creative with the basketball.Think about this all those perfect artist ive named before how many characters have they created.What have they left behind for the next generation and then think about what liefeld has left behind nothing but creation.



dude, are you retarded? seriously.

your answer to my question is that liefeld will have bad days because he is a "freehanded artist", that he is like michael jordon ? holy sh!t.

i am astonished. i thought i had heard it all.

"This is probaly goes on with liefeld since he is freehanded artist his artwork is not going to be stunning all the time " are completely being serious with me? honestly?

so rob liefeld has never heard of "erasing"? or how about "double checking"?
ok i can understand your comment about not using references, that liefeld does without. but being a man, i am sure that liefeld does not need to reference a male body to know that captain america does not have breasts. i beleive that liefeld is married, that would mean that liefeld would know that men have bulges in their pants, woman do not. unless of course rob has never seen a woman before. but that would mean that rob liefeld has never watched television before, or read any magazine that has pictures, or maybe read anybody elses comic books, rob has never walked on any street in any city in any country in this entire world. that he has spent his entire life sitting alone in his house with never having laid eyes upon another human being, his own mother included, for your reasoning to hold water.

come on man, putting him in the same sentance with any type of physical activity is just plain stupid. comics and writers are arm chair workers. and before anybody gets defensive about that comment...dont, just think about it this way, does any writer or any artist do their work while doing backflips, jumping jacks, running in a marathon, martial arts? no they are sitting in a chair concentrating on their work.

im not even going to argue putting any physical activity in the same context as a writer or artist. but i will say this. fine rob liefeld has a bad day and does some bad art work, so that means that he doesnt have the time to double check the product before going on to the part of the project, it means that he didnt go back and double check the quality of his work.

since you want to do analogies here are some.
just how mad would you be if you walked into your job and your employer didnt have your pay check that day because he was having a bad day, and that since he doesnt do things like other people do them he didnt get the chance to get payroll done correctly and now you have to deal with no pay, maybe he gives you a cash advance but its only 50 dollars out of a 300 dollar paycheck.

how about you take your wife to a nice restaraunt and the waiter brings your food half cooked, do you make your wife eat the food? do you tell her "its ok honey, maybe the chef was just having a bad day, go on eat up"

now these analogies are absurd, but just as plausable as the one you posted.

and the supergeek comment? really now, how exactly do you plan on arguing any point with something like that. i state my oppinion wich happens to disagree with yours and i am a supergeek? you argue your point wich you beleive to be the only right one and your something other then a supergeek as well, have you yet to realise the moment that you added to this debate that you have in fact shown yourself to be a "supergeek" yourself.

[michaelj]

you care too much hater, go to bed.

no no no. stop haunting me with your logic.

[doboy1]

The only opinion you are interested in is your own.Liefeld is a great artist so just deal.All you do is pour haterade on rob.Your in small segment of the comic public and its getting smaller.You also could not answer any of my questions about those perfect artist an their number of creations.You duck and dodge stuff that you dont want to answer but I go right to the heart of your rants a dissassemble them.I ANSWERED THE MAIN QUESTION YOU SAID YOU WERE ASKING.So now you try move on to other ________ without answering my questions because you cant.

[AnthonyL]

dude, are you retarded? seriously.

I'm not getting in the middle of this one, I'm just sitting back and watching, but I have to ask you: If he WAS retarded, do you think he would know and say "yes, I'm retarded"?

I don't think retarded people know rhetorical questions when they see them/hear them

I may be wrong though. :)

Anthony L

[michaelj]

The only opinion you are interested in is your own.Liefeld is a great artist so just deal.All you do is pour haterade on rob.Your in small segment of the comic public and its getting smaller.You also could not answer any of my questions about those perfect artist an their number of creations.You duck and dodge stuff that you dont want to answer but I go right to the heart of your rants a dissassemble them.I ANSWERED THE MAIN QUESTION YOU SAID YOU WERE ASKING.So now you try move on to other ________ without answering my questions because you cant.


yeah, its been proven, you are retarded, what you put in that post was a statement, not a question, you never asked anything about those other artists, you stated points.

so asking me to answer a statement is beyond impossible, i can debate a statement, i can argue a statement, but i can not answer a statement. and you seriously asked a question then please add a question mark.

but in defense to what you said?

i cant, because it doesnt make a damned difference as to how the work is done, good work is good work, and bad work is bad work, and captain america with titties is bad work.

and as for your answering my question? no you didnt, not really, because you have no real answer for what i asked, and you didnt really answer it, woman with penises and men that look like a lorena bobbit victim is just bad work, not the result of a free handed artist. your analogy was only an attempt to answer my question without actually giving reason for putting out comical and sub par work. you know there is no excuse for such things and your analogy was just your way of trying to argue a point that you know you can not defend.

my oppinnion is the only one that i care about? not in any of my posts have i tried to convince any one to agree with me, my posts state my oppion, just as your have stated yours, and before you accuse me of such things go back and read exactly what i have posted, because i have also defended liefeld on his work as well. how is it that my oppinion is that only one that matters, yet i have agreed with the oppions of others concerning liefeld and his work.

i even stated to you that i agreed that the killraven pic looks great, it was your oppinion i was agreeing with, yet mine is the only one that matters.

seriously, you just dont like the fact that somebody has found fault with your god liefeld and actually pointed out those faults.

now go and bow to your tin god liefeld

[doboy1]

Im still here I still like liefeld hes still drawing comics.Im happy what about you.You havent accomplished a single thing.But show how much of a personal grudge you have against liefeld.Hooray for you!

[michaelj]

Im still here I still like liefeld hes still drawing comics.Im happy what about you.You havent accomplished a single thing.But show how much of a personal grudge you have against liefeld.Hooray for you!


im still here as well, and to be completely honest i am glad that he is drawing comics, never said that i wasnt, or that he shouldnt.

but you see i have accomplished something, i had a chance to discuss this topic with another person. you may see this as personal, and maybe as having a grudge but i do not.

i merely posted my oppinion, as you did yours. so thank you for doing so.
it doesnt matter that you like him, or that i dislike some of his art work, and i say "some" because i have stated many times in the past that there has been some great work by him. it doesnt matter. he will still be in the business while you and i go back and forth about how good or not good he is.

for me? i enjoy a good debate, i enjoy discussing comics, maybe sometimes i come off as harsh, but as you stated in one post about "speaking from the heart", i speak my mind as i see things, and sometimes people, such as yourself disagree with that.

please, keep answering these posts, i do enjoy this. and i think you do as well, or you wouldnt come back to reply to what i have posted. you and i will not agree, but i see no reason that you and i or anybody else cant discuss it.

[mikeyg]

Go check the liefeld thread to see how you get owned.

[michaelj]

Go check the liefeld thread to see how you get owned.


i just want to know, but does it suck being a follower? does it hurt when you go home at night and look at yourself in the mirror and see what looks back at you?

becuase im guessing that being the type of person to just jump in and post "you got owned" really does suck. always watching what the big boys do and cheering from the sidelines like a good girlfriend, holding the mens jackets.

reading your two posts reminds me of those old looney tunes cartoons with that little dog and his big freind spike.

" what are we gonna do today spike? huh, huh , huh? what are we gonna do? you gonna go beat that dog up spike? huh? huh? you can do it spike 'cause your big and tough right spike? want me to hold you collar for ya spike? huh?"

at least you didnt use the word pwned

[AnthonyL]

Thank god for that, I hate leet speek.

Sorry, it's just. God I can't stand it. I just want to reach through the computer screen and bitchslap people when they do it.

That and people who type in slang. We know you probably talk that way, but do you have to type in gangsta rap?

Uh.

(sorry to interupt, go back to fighting now you two)

Anthony L

[mikeyg]

i just want to know, but does it suck being a follower? does it hurt when you go home at night and look at yourself in the mirror and see what looks back at you?

becuase im guessing that being the type of person to just jump in and post "you got owned" really does suck. always watching what the big boys do and cheering from the sidelines like a good girlfriend, holding the mens jackets.

reading your two posts reminds me of those old looney tunes cartoons with that little dog and his big freind spike.

" what are we gonna do today spike? huh, huh , huh? what are we gonna do? you gonna go beat that dog up spike? huh? huh? you can do it spike 'cause your big and tough right spike? want me to hold you collar for ya spike? huh?"

at least you didnt use the word pwned

You got PWNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and now your butt hurt, I get it, its cool. :D

[michaelj]

You got PWNED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and now your butt hurt, I get it, its cool. :D


damn, and there it is, i knew it, i just knew that i would see that damned word pop up sometime.

[AnthonyL]

We would of never seen it if you hadn't given him the idea. It's your faul, dammit! :mad:

Anthony L

[michaelj]

We would of never seen it if you hadn't given him the idea. It's your faul, dammit! :mad:

Anthony L


yeah, i take the blame for this one. im wondering how long it will be before he gets that tattood on his stomache. pretty fly for a white guy.

[AnthonyL]

oh god now I have that stupid song in my head MAKE IT STOP.

I hate you!

(runs away from thread screaming)

Anthony L

[The Shadow]

come on man, you dont think that maybe just a little bit that you deserve to have a little of this bashing, that you havent earned in even the slightest degree?
Absolutely NOT!

No creator deserves ANY bashing. Period.

If you want to critique the work, fine. In fact over at Rob's forums he'll gladly talk about other artists and their influence on him. But bashing? No need.

If you don't like his work, avoid it. It's pretty simple really. You'll also be a happier 16 year old with less anger.

I've always wondered what idiot intentionally goes out and spends their hard earned money on something they don't like?? Produced by a creator they don't like? It truly baffles the mind.

[michaelj]

Absolutely NOT!

No creator deserves ANY bashing. Period.

If you want to critique the work, fine. In fact over at Rob's forums he'll gladly talk about other artists and their influence on him. But bashing? No need.

If you don't like his work, avoid it. It's pretty simple really. You'll also be a happier 16 year old with less anger.

I've always wondered what idiot intentionally goes out and spends their hard earned money on something they don't like?? Produced by a creator they don't like? It truly baffles the mind.


wow, who beat the crap out you with the leather belt as a child? youre pretty enraged over this.

"absolutely not" "no creator deserves ANY bashing period"

THE SHADOW once again saves the day from bad spelling and grammer errors, making the internet safe for hacks and proper sentence structure.

im betting your lips get wet when you see this junk.

[mikeyg]

wow, who beat the crap out you with the leather belt as a child? youre pretty enraged over this.

"absolutely not" "no creator deserves ANY bashing period"

THE SHADOW once again saves the day from bad spelling and grammer errors, making the internet safe for hacks and proper sentence structure.

im betting your lips get wet when you see this junk.

Dude, you lost the war SOOOOOOOOOOO long ago, just give it up.

[michaelj]

Dude, you lost the war SOOOOOOOOOOO long ago, just give it up.


oh no, somebody disagreed with me on an internet forum. oh my god this must be the end of the world. somebody call the proper athorities, call in the marines, there was an argument on the internet.

you f#cking moron, is this basis of your existance?

i was wondering when you would stop masterbating to the shadow posts long enough to come back and say something.

[The Shadow]

you f#cking moron, is this basis of your existance?

i was wondering when you would stop masterbating
Aaaaaannnnnnnnnd also reported to Matt.

See ya.

[MattBrady]

you f#cking moron, is this basis of your existance? namecalling, gone.

MattB

[Templar1305]

This thread is kind of civil for a Rob Liefeld thread. 3 to 4years ago this thread would be 20 pages long and locked already.
.

Uh, maybe they grew up and got like a job and a car payment and have better things to do than wreck their spleens over funnybooks?

BWA-Hahahahahahahahahhahaha!!!!!!!

If you don't like it, don't buy it.

Every creator has his or her own fans who will buy it.
I don't get Joe Mad myself. But some people dig that manga -y stuff...
It just makes me hurl.