1602 #8

[MudshovelForYou]

1602 #8
Written by Neil Gaiman
with art by Andy Kubert

And so Neil Gaiman's Marvel mini-series ends.

It doesn't end on a perfect note, but an interesting one. I like the fact that the ending, like the rest of the series, has been more about drama and character interaction than action. For all of us who were expecting an action-based ending (as the end of issue 7 would hint towards) we get a cerebral ending, which I think works in favor of the whole story.

All of our players arrive in the New World, intent on fixing the disturbance. Meanwhile, Rojhaz explains how he came to be in the past, which was honestly a little disappointing for me, as I was hoping it would tie in with Cap Lives, but eh. It's a little nit pick.

Kubert and colorist Richard Isanove have, besides doing some fine work, given us one of the finest images of Cap ever. Just seeing him with his face painted, informing Nick Fury that he has to defend and protect America was awesome.

We also got one or two little final reveals about Bruce Banner and the Hulk, that I won't spoil. Nor will I say how it ends, except for the tremendous potential it has. Also, while I'm not really sure how this remains in continuity, I can also see how this isn't outside of continuity. (yeah, that's not confusing. :))

With this being the last issue, I'd like to say that I thought Gaiman did a fine job pulling the story together, and with all the complaints that this story was decompressed or padded for the trade (same thing people said about The Kindly ones, too) that I never once felt that any issue didn't advance the story.

Final Grade: A

[cyclopsfan]

but what does it mean about what happened at the end with peter and hulk ? because that would mean they aren't here now.... right?

[MudshovelForYou]

Originally posted by cyclopsfan
but what does it mean about what happened at the end with peter and hulk ? because that would mean they aren't here now.... right?

No... I took that to mean that they, like reed and everyone are still there with the watcher.

[Noc]

I will get it tomorrow.

[The 'Nam]

arghhh i cant take it!!!!! i wanna read it!!!! but i get my comics on friday, due to my subscription service orders........

now lets see that Gaiman Nick Fury or X-men mini series...........

[melperfect]

I was a little bit disapointed by this one.
It left open some new possibilities, but it still all seemed to tie up a little bit too neatly for me, and the Kubert art appeared to be the most rushed of the series IMO.

I still enjoyed the previous issue much more.

I expected some sort of grand reveal in this one to make my jaw drop and it just didn't happen.

I would give it a C

the whole series, B

[Noc]

I would give it A also

[MatthewSmith]

Like melperfect, I was bit disappointed in this issue. I wanted to read this thing and just ahve my jaw drop, but it just didn't happen.

But that's not to say that I thought it was bad. I'm a huge Neil Gaiman fan and I guess his previous work has just spoiled me. I think if anyone else had written this I probably would think that they did a great job, but for Gaiman this was just mediocre.

I'll give this issue a B.

But I think the series as a whole, especially last issue, deserves an A.

[MudshovelForYou]

Originally posted by MatthewSmith
Like melperfect, I was bit disappointed in this issue. I wanted to read this thing and just ahve my jaw drop, but it just didn't happen.

But that's not to say that I thought it was bad. I'm a huge Neil Gaiman fan and I guess his previous work has just spoiled me. I think if anyone else had written this I probably would think that they did a great job, but for Gaiman this was just mediocre.

I'll give this issue a B.

But I think the series as a whole, especially last issue, deserves an A.

See for me it was more of a shock to get a calm, intellectual ending, and not a let down.

And yes, I agree with everyone who said last issue deserves an A.

[MatthewSmith]

Originally posted by MudshovelForYou
See for me it was more of a shock to get a calm, intellectual ending, and not a let down.

And yes, I agree with everyone who said last issue deserves an A.

You know, that's a good point. Sometime later I'll read the whole thing in one sitting and then we'll see what I think.

I think that part of me was just disappointed that I didn't get to see a 1602 Spider-man. I was chomping at the bit for him to get bit by a dang spider the whole time, but it doesn't happen until the last page.

[MudshovelForYou]

Originally posted by MatthewSmith
You know, that's a good point. Sometime later I'll read the whole thing in one sitting and then we'll see what I think.

I think that part of me was just disappointed that I didn't get to see a 1602 Spider-man. I was chomping at the bit for him to get bit by a dang spider the whole time, but it doesn't happen until the last page.

Haha.. I know!!! But at least, Bruce Banner had his moment.

[MayorBigRig]

I have absolutely loved this series. I am saddened to see it go. This was absolutely amazing.

Onto the review part.

For a finale to something that's been building since the summer, I couldn't ask for anything better, personally. I thought this ended VERY sharply, and I was simply thrilled to see Hulk and Spider-Man at last. Beautifully done.

This proves Captain America is straight up THE MAN, too.

I thought the absolute best scene in the whole book and even the whole series, personally, was when 1602 Matt Murdoch/DD sneaks into soon-to-be-King James' bedchamber and gives him the low-down.

So, having read through the first 7 issues before I went to the comic shop today and then reading #8 first thing, I have only one real disappointment with #8. I wanted to see Count Doom again. After he got all nasty scarred last time, I wanted to see him with his 1602 version of the mask and looking all hardcore mean, plotting his eventual revenge on all who dared oppose him and his fancy-scripted will.

Stunning work on all counts. A+

[Adam Strange]

At first I was disappointed that we were getting the rational ending instead of some big slugfest but the more I read the book the more I realized that it was a perfect ending for this series. Neil Gaiman is a master of dialogue and characterization and I think if he had tried to do the typical super-hero slugfest ending that it might not have been as satisfying. I was a little disappointed with the scant reason given for Cap being sent back in time though.

[gOgIver]

I'm with melperfect on the C/B rating for this.:(

[LoveForFire]

I loved it. I give an A.

It really tied up nicely in the end. I was expecting a slugfest but the ending was perfect. If it was a slugfest it would have been awkward.

I've never really liked Cap but now my view of him has changed. He is definitely the man.


*SPOILER*







Gaiman owes Marvel another project and there have been rumors that its gonna be Nick Fury. You think that it might be Sir Nicholas Fury in Rohjaz's (Cap) alternate future of a corrupt America. It's a longshot, even as I type this I'm skeptical, but it'd be cool to see.

I also like the that the last issue left potential of a 1602 sequel.

[CountD]

Originally posted by MudshovelForYou
1602 #8
Written by Neil Gaiman
with art by Andy Kubert

And so Neil Gaiman's Marvel mini-series ends.

It doesn't end on a perfect note, but an interesting one. I like the fact that the ending, like the rest of the series, has been more about drama and character interaction than action. For all of us who were expecting an action-based ending (as the end of issue 7 would hint towards) we get a cerebral ending, which I think works in favor of the whole story.

All of our players arrive in the New World, intent on fixing the disturbance. Meanwhile, Rojhaz explains how he came to be in the past, which was honestly a little disappointing for me, as I was hoping it would tie in with Cap Lives, but eh. It's a little nit pick.

Kubert and colorist Richard Isanove have, besides doing some fine work, given us one of the finest images of Cap ever. Just seeing him with his face painted, informing Nick Fury that he has to defend and protect America was awesome.

We also got one or two little final reveals about Bruce Banner and the Hulk, that I won't spoil. Nor will I say how it ends, except for the tremendous potential it has. Also, while I'm not really sure how this remains in continuity, I can also see how this isn't outside of continuity. (yeah, that's not confusing. :))

With this being the last issue, I'd like to say that I thought Gaiman did a fine job pulling the story together, and with all the complaints that this story was decompressed or padded for the trade (same thing people said about The Kindly ones, too) that I never once felt that any issue didn't advance the story.

Final Grade: A

Nice review. Thanks!!

(are we giving plus grades, b/c this series deserves A+!):D

[Noc]

I think the last issue opens some new ideas.

[TheFoo]

I'm a little confused. Is this a 'new' universe now? 'Cause thats how I read it. Am I the only one who saw this?

[dollman]

I'm confused by how Cap got transported back to 1602 and thus caused the analomy.

Characterwise, it was great. But I'm beginning to wonder if Gaimen has lost his touch. After reading this and American Gods last summer, I've come to this conclusion.

Gaimen has a great plot, but has absolutely no clue how to conclude it.

My grade on this, as with American Gods....B-

[melperfect]

Originally posted by dollman
I'm confused by how Cap got transported back to 1602 and thus caused the analomy.

I wondered this as well. He got shot in the head, put in some contraption, and suddenly he's transported to the past?

OOOOOOOOOkay, I hope for a sequel with a good explanation in the near future.

(still liked 1602 pretty well though)

[Terram]

Banner's face time was short, but it was a very satisfying subtle take on the character (both the nuclear scientist and character here kill from a distance) and they both behave like kind, nice people despite their fundamentally monstrous trades.

[Lukecage_2099]

Things that worked for me in this issue:

Reed's handle on the problem
Historical references
Warren's questionable sexuality
The Watchers term 'alternity'
Donal's reluctance to become Thor again
Sir Fury is a bad-ass no matter what time period
Cap's willingness to trust Fury
Virginia Dare as Gwen Stacy (I knew it! ;) )
Banner's transformation


Things that didn't work for me:

Cap's "Days of Future Past" origin (I was hoping for something cleverly tied to an adventure he had already been on)
No Spider-Man
No Von Doom to try to sabotage the heroes


OVERALL GRADE: A-

[CountD]

the following is just my interpretation. for the sake of clarity, I'll refer to the series' we've been reading universe as 'Gaiman's Universe'. But there really was only one universe the whole time.

The 'Gaiman' universe ended, allowing the Marvel universe we know to continue to exist.

after all was said and done, the 'Gaiman' universe was re-created by the head-honcho Watchers from 'the fringes of alternity' and given to Earth's watcher as a keepsake. They inhabitants of this 'New-Gaiman Universe' have no recollection of their world ending.

..This is where things get foggy and subjective to even more opinion: Are there two universe's now?

I believe so.

One in the watchers heart and another one we read about every day in the MU.

:cool: :D

[CountD]

Originally posted by dollman
I'm confused by how Cap got transported back to 1602 and thus caused the analomy.

B-

I believe Earth's Watcher interfered and sent Steve back. Not positive, tho.

[comerfob]

Just wondering who in the regular marvel universe and where was she from did Steven Strange's wife repersent.

Thought 1602 was great esp. the Murdock scene but I'm Irish so I would wouldn't I.

BTW are the fantastic creatures that are seen in this issue as well as others part of the Inquisitors plan a la Magneto in the Savage Land.

[strathcona]

Originally posted by CountD
the following is just my interpretation. for the sake of clarity, I'll refer to the series' we've been reading universe as 'Gaiman's Universe'. But there really was only one universe the whole time.

The 'Gaiman' universe ended, allowing the Marvel universe we know to continue to exist.

after all was said and done, the 'Gaiman' universe was re-created by the head-honcho Watchers from 'the fringes of alternity' and given to Earth's watcher as a keepsake. They inhabitants of this 'New-Gaiman Universe' have no recollection of their world ending.

..This is where things get foggy and subjective to even more opinion: Are there two universe's now?

I believe so.

One in the watchers heart and another one we read about every day in the MU.

:cool: :D

I don't think the original Gaiman Universe ended, I think that with Cap gone it just reverted back to the way it was supposed to be.

So, I think Reed, Javier and all the others sort of became normal again and had no recollection of being who they were or doing what they did in this series, and history went on like it had before in the 616 MU. The only one that didn't revert was Viginia Dare, since she had no normal MU couterpart.

Then the head Watcher guy recreated the Gaiman Universe as if it continued along the same lines, but seperate from the normal 616 MU, so it can be revisited again if anyone wants.

Originally posted by comerfob
Just wondering who in the regular marvel universe and where was she from did Steven Strange's wife repersent.

She represented Clea. I've never really read any Dr Strange, but I know he and Clea were an item for a long time. She was from the same dimension as Dr. Strange's enemy Dormammu. I'm not really sure if they ever actually ever got married in the normal 616 MU.

[GhettoRebel]

Originally posted by MayorBigRig
This proves Captain America is straight up THE MAN, too.


:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D :D:D:D


BTW am I the only one who didn't realize Cap was even in it until he told his little tale??


Maybe I was looking too hard (shoulda had my glasses on)

[GhettoRebel]

Originally posted by LoveForFire
II've never really liked Cap but now my view of him has changed. He is definitely the man.


:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D :D

[GhettoRebel]

Originally posted by Lukecage_2099
Things that worked for me in this issue:

Reed's handle on the problem
Historical references
Warren's questionable sexuality
The Watchers term 'alternity'
Donal's reluctance to become Thor again
Sir Fury is a bad-ass no matter what time period
Cap's willingness to trust Fury
Virginia Dare as Gwen Stacy (I knew it! ;) )
Banner's transformation


Things that didn't work for me:

Cap's "Days of Future Past" origin (I was hoping for something cleverly tied to an adventure he had already been on)
No Spider-Man
No Von Doom to try to sabotage the heroes


OVERALL GRADE: A-

I was wondering who Vigina Dare was supposed to be. Maybe if I read more Spider-Man, I woulda picked right up on that bit about her dying and then her a Peter walking away together at the end.....

The days of future past thing worked for me though. Heck I didn't even know it was Cap until that part. It makes sense that the serum would slow down or stop his aging proces. Heck it kept him in suspended animation for 30+ years....why not?

[The Creeper]

Originally posted by Lukecage_2099
Virginia Dare as Gwen Stacy (I knew it! ;) ) Didn't catch this at first.

[JK Parkin]

Originally posted by comerfob
Just wondering who in the regular marvel universe and where was she from did Steven Strange's wife repersent.

Clea has been a supporting character/love interest in Dr. Strange's books over the years, and was a Defender. She lives in another realm and doesn't spend much time on Earth anymore.

[JK Parkin]

Originally posted by strathcona
She represented Clea. I've never really read any Dr Strange, but I know he and Clea were an item for a long time. She was from the same dimension as Dr. Strange's enemy Dormammu. I'm not really sure if they ever actually ever got married in the normal 616 MU.

I want to say they were married and then split up, but I can't remember for sure. And isn't she Dormammu's daughter?

[strathcona]

Originally posted by JK Phoenix
I want to say they were married and then split up, but I can't remember for sure. And isn't she Dormammu's daughter?

I want to say niece, but as I said, I never read Dr. Strange, so I'm not 100%.

[GhettoRebel]

Originally posted by strathcona
I want to say niece, but as I said, I never read Dr. Strange, so I'm not 100%.

Best Dr. Strange story I've ever read.

This and that one where he thinks he can take on the Hulk after Onslaught wiped Banner mind clean.

[The 'Nam]

am i the only one whos surprised that they didnt throw wolverine in there just for the sake of having wolverine?

[LoveForFire]

Originally posted by The 'Nam
am i the only one whos surprised that they didnt throw wolverine in there just for the sake of having wolverine?

I read somewhere it was Gaiman's plan was to tell a story using Marvel's Golden Age characters ( the characters that made Marvel a hit in the 60's and 70's). That's why Wolverine is not there.

[GhettoRebel]

Originally posted by The 'Nam
am i the only one whos surprised that they didnt throw wolverine in there just for the sake of having wolverine?

Wasn't he in the bar in the 1st or second issue?

Minus the claws......

I'll hae to check but I coulda swore he was there.

[Xaraan]

I didn't love this issue as much as I wish I had. Maybe B+

It had a good ending, but there was something missing. It didn't need a slug fest or anything. Heck I loved issue 7 for something as suttle as realizing Rojaz was Cap and then seeing that frame with the smirk on his face. It was just missing that little something.

I didn't get at all the Dare/Gwen Stacey thing and still not so sure about it, just because she walked off with Peter.

I would have liked to see Cap coming from some current or recent story (Maybe from the Cap Lives storyline ending to here; then home again type thing) That might have been that little something that would have won me over fully.

So I guess I'm still curious as to how this effects marvel Continuity, if there is such a thing; since Gaimen said it would - maybe in a future story he is working on?

[Skyldt]

and i'm done.

[Godfather]

Originally posted by Xaraan
I didn't love this issue as much as I wish I had. Maybe B+

It had a good ending, but there was something missing. It didn't need a slug fest or anything. Heck I loved issue 7 for something as suttle as realizing Rojaz was Cap and then seeing that frame with the smirk on his face. It was just missing that little something.

I didn't get at all the Dare/Gwen Stacey thing and still not so sure about it, just because she walked off with Peter.

I would have liked to see Cap coming from some current or recent story (Maybe from the Cap Lives storyline ending to here; then home again type thing) That might have been that little something that would have won me over fully.

So I guess I'm still curious as to how this effects marvel Continuity, if there is such a thing; since Gaimen said it would - maybe in a future story he is working on?

You know, I wanted to reply to this thread and I just didn't know how to word it. I think some of what you said implies what I thought about this issue. It just didn't seem as great to me as everyone else thought. Besides the issue with the major action, I can't say I thought ending was so great.

[R A Renteria]

I'm the kind of person that buys a mini-series as it comes out, scans each issue for key moments and then puts each issue aside until I have the complete series. So I have an awareness of what's going on and can follow the general storyline. The day before the final issue of a mini-series I collect comes out, I sit down and read the entire series in anticipation of the ending coming out the following day. I have never been more rewarded for my patience until I picked up my copy of Marvel 1602 #8. What a fabulous read. What a logical twist ending. What a perfect way to end a series that seemed to start out slow but grew more and more intense as it went along and the suprise at the end of the story made the wait all the more worth while.

The story opens with Rojahz telling his story and what started the chain of events. Keeping in Marvel tradition, the story was of a dark future for the heroes of the Marvel Universe. America is ruled by the iron fist of it's president for life and heroes are no longer welcome. The event that triggers the whole story is the death of Captain America, and what a tragic death. As we continue to learn more about Rojahz arrival all the various other forces are starting to converge on the anomaly that threatens to destroy the universe.

There are some great moments in this issue, Carlos stopping Enrico on his quest using the talents of Iceman; Angel and Cyclops discussion about Jean - BRILLIANT; Doctor Strange's talking head - must be seen to be believed; Peter and St. Nick's final confrontations; the heroes coming together to the save the universe; Banner saving Peter from a blast eerily simialar to the gamma bomb that created the Hulk; the big reveal, for me anyway; and the spider bite to end the story. This was a great tale that unfolded so naturally that in the end everything made sense to me, and maybe we learned a little more about the Marvel Universe. I would never believe that Neil Gaiman was capable of telling a Marvel story that ultimately was entrenched in the history of the Marvel Universe, what a great thrill it was to witness it.

The art by Andy Kubert was as great as it was through all eight issues. Every moment captured perfectly, with the art being consistent throughout. Especially striking to me was the close-up of Captain America in face paint, that would make a great poster, and the frozen ship on the ocean. My most favorite of all though, was a simple seque that happens betwen the final moment and the reaveal, what an interesting piece - very peaceful and a great way to shift scenes.

I wouldn't call myself a fan of Neil Gaiman, but I have read Sandman and it's odd and end spin-offs, but that's about it. I picked up Marvel 1602 with no trepidation, because I knew at least I was getting a capable writer. The handling of so many characters, giving them there distinct identies while still maintaining that sense of difference, what an amazing job. Capturing key moments of the Marvel Universe throughout the series, but most espeically this issue, was cleverly done. The digital coloring was dead on, of course if you don't like digital painting than this probably won't change your mind. This was a great mini-series and I highly recommend it to anyone looking for a good read

Richard Renteria

BUY FABLES ... you won't be sorry!

[Auron]

1602 #8

Everyone is brought together for this rousing final chapter of Gaiman and Kubert’s epic, and while I wasn’t expecting what I got, I loved it all just the same. All along this tale has been Final Fantasy mixed with Marvel with a more historical bent, and the ending to the series only upholds this. Any scholar of literature worth anything at all will tell you that a good story never ends, there just comes a point where we stop telling it and let the characters we’ve come to care for go their separate ways and trust to fate. The end of an epic should always feel like a beginning for those involved. This Gaiman does with skill. I was sad after reading the last page, because I knew that while they never really existed, somewhere in dreamland these characters would live on and continue having both normal lives and grand adventures, and I wouldn’t get to join them for any of it. And that is the mark of a grand adventure. That and some kick-ass artwork.
10 out of 10 (A+)