MAY 2007 SALES CHARTS & MARKET SHARE REPORT

[MattBrady]

<a href=http://www.newsarama.com/marketreport/may07sales.html><img src=http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/CapAmerica/DDream/Captain_America_t.jpg align=right></a>Diamond released their monthly Direct Market Sales Charts and Market Share report Friday, this month for titles that went on sale in <b>May 2007</b>, and after a month in which the gap between Marvel and DC narrowed, Marvel has come roaring back with one of the most dominant months in the head-to-head between the 'Big Two" in recent memory.

With the #1 comic book of the month - <b>Civil War: Fallen Son - The Death of Captain America: Captain America</b> and seven of the Top Ten titles, Marvel took 46.60% of the Unit market share, nearly 16 percentage points over DC who garnered 30.81%.

And from the Dollar share standpoint, the results were pretty much the same, with Marvel taking 42.80% to DC's 27.66%. It will take some further research, but either/or of these market share figures might be several year's lows for DC Comics, and the "spreads" between the two majors might be the highest in the Diamond era, or at least the post-Marvel bankruptcy era.

DC, despite having the bestselling trade paperback of the month in <b>Y: The Last Man Vol. 9</b> trade paperback, seemed to have lost some ground partly due to the transition from the end of <b>52</b> to the beginning of their new weekly series <b>Countdown</b>…

Click <a href=http://www.newsarama.com/marketreport/may07sales.html>here</a> for the full story…

[Innercaine]

Hmmm Maybe the Marvel fans are seeing something I don't.

Have to think about it. I hate the thought of trying to support two lines..

[mookydo]

I certainly prefer the DCU to the Marvel U, but Marvel has really been putting out a lot of good stuff since the end of Civil War. With great books coming from the big two, everybody wins.

Now everybody be nice.

[KyleCowstar]

Both gorups of fans are seeing something I don't. But this kinda serves DC right for doing just about everything wrong in May.


JLA/JSA crossover- boring and dissapointing considering JSA's quality before the crossover.
Countdown- No one wanted a Jason Todd weekly book. Kyle rayner hasn't shown up
Teen titans- Just thank God for McKeever soon
Wonder Woman- Thank God for Gail soon
Action comics- good job Kubert...at not doing your work

Not many books impressed. DC has a lot of good stuff coming soon though, so hopefully sales will improve. Creative team changes and GL Sinestro Corps should hopefully improve sales and quality. May was just a month with little going for it at DC. Marvel didn't have much either except for Clint returning and Dark Tower still selling solidly.

[bebopeva88]

Wow, congrats to Marvel!

BTW, I'd like to congratulate myself on being like the only person who guessed correctly that AS Batman would both be a top 10 book, AND beat Ultimates 2 in sales. :D That book is critic/bitch proof.

Nice to see The Dark Tower still doing so well, Fallen Son is really cleaning up, and with #26, Cap is still riding high.

The first batch of WWH tie-ins are doing great.

Coutdown #48 already coming in at #25 in the top 100 is a bit alarming.

JLA is still selling excellently.

TWD with the #2 trade is great news.

The Boys is doing very well with #7 and the 1st trade after its jump to Dynamite.

[nightw1ng]

wow, congrats to marvel. they've been putting out a lot of excellent stuff recently and i'm glad it's been paying off for them.

i wonder what the higher up't at dc think of countdown's position on the charts. it's actually quite alarming and i only see it going down from there...

[Drink]

I'm rather surprised that Countdown didn't seem to gain any sales at all from 52, and in fact has gradually continued the same line of attrition. While I'm no fan of the book, I expected at least an initial boost and then things start to come down first.

Also, good to see Captain America is retaining at least a hefty fraction of its sales from #25, I started with the ongoing with #26 after collecting the trades, and love the series.

[HartyPotter]

Those look like good numbers. I'm actually both surprised and please that Dark Tower had the number one retail ranking. I don't read the series, but it seems good for the industry as a whole that the book is doing so well, despite not being a traditional superhero book, nor placed in a mainstream universe.

[Drcharles]

Well, well ,well..........
Marvel sure have stuck it to poor old DC......
I think recently Marvel have shown signs of a comeback as far as I'm concerned,
All I'm seeing now from DC is Fan-Favs pushed out of the way for new comers,( Atom /Aquaman/Hawkman loses his own title :eek: etc........) and this is the only thing that seems to be on the table as far as Dan is offering,
Well. Guess what Dan !, myself, along with so many others aren't Hungery.............

[LikeaPhoenix]

Wow, DC is getting clobbered and pummelled by Marvel, again! It goes to show that if you have wonderful, well-thought-out and executed stuff, people will buy. DC needs to clean up its act, quit pulling unexplained changes (OYL), and shoe-horning storylines (WWIII-Black Adam). In short, DeeDiddlyDidio needs a talking to or get the pink-slip.

One curious observation, how come all titles suffer such a big drop in sales from the previous month??

[Erikcrusade]

Rumours of ASBAR's demise have been greatly exaggerated.

[HartyPotter]

Really, the only significant difference I see is that Countdown isn't in as much demand as Fifty-Two, and for the past year Fifty-Two was the one thing DC had that was making them even somewhat competitive. I'm sure they were expecting/hoping for more from Countdown.

[joshhorus1]

Checkmate is dead last. OUCH!!! I love the book and hope DC gives it a chance to grow an audience.

[Snowspinner]

It's unusually difficult to make comparisons since last month used the non-standard Detective Comics as its benchmark, but assuming Detective stayed about the same from last month to this, the tracking from the end of 52 to the start of Countdown went roughly like this (all numbers in this month's scale):

52 48 108.64
52 49 108.60
52 50 111.34
52 51 108.89
52 52 127.40
CD 51 113.68
CD 50 104.53
CD 49 101.70
CD 48 99.61

Which is noticably worse than 52, but still probably a success by any measure - especially considering all the factors alligning against the book (Mediocre initial reviews, unclear premise, fatigue, lesser creative team). The drop leveled of a lot after 51-50, so assuming it can keep the tendency of 52 to drop very narrowly week to week, this should prove to be a good idea for DC.

I'm surprised by the comparatively low placing of the two WWH tie-ins released so far. That's got to be a mark of concern for Marvel, though obviously the real news will be how the first issue of the main series goes.

Beyond that, there's my usual note of caution about Marvel's reliance on events. They may have the top 10 in the bag, but two of those are death of Captain America issues, two of those are miniseries, one of those is an outgoing superstar creative team, and two are still riding the Civil War high. Amazing Spider-Man is about the only entry on the list they can probably feel good about the staying power of. I'm also surprised to see Wolverine take such a large tumble. Did the Loeb arc end already, or was this its conclusion?

DC is similarly relying on events for their top placers, with the JLA/JSA crossover and a short-run superstar team on JLA, but at least you've got some comfort down the charts a bit - positions 26-50 (when DC really re-enters the charts) are broken down like this:

DC: 10
Marvel: 15

But of DC's 10, only one, Wonder Woman, could be considered eventy right now (tying to Amazons Attack, which is doing dreadfully anyway). Of Marvel's 15, 9 are miniseries or Civil War: Initiative titles.

It's also notable that Marvel just plain ships more than DC - across all of DC's lines they shipped 16 books this week, to Marvel's 20. Last week was 19 to 20, next week is 17 to 22. On average, that puts Marvel at 55% of books shipped. And if you go to mainstream Superhero stuff (Drop Vertigo, Wildstorm, Icon, Marvel Adventures, and DC's titles like Scooby Doo, and all reprints) the numbers get even more striking, with Marvel holding 60% of the titles shipped between the two. Which is, if you limit the market to just Marvel and DC, exactly what their unit market share is compared to DC - 60%.

[Simon DelMonte]

So, Dark Tower is still selling. Wow.

Why "wow"? Because the comics fans I know really den't seem to care - I haven't seen a review post or discussion for it in three months, either here or at GeoffJohns.com. And because the Dark Tower fans I know HATE it. Hate the art, hate the script, hate everything but the original books.

Clearly, my friends and myself are in the minority among DT fans in general. Marvel made a great move in signing with King. Though whether it means that anyone who's reading a comic book for the first time will ever read anything is impossible to say.

[artiepants]

good grief, congrats to Marvel, that's a shellacking.
Beyond that, there's my usual note of caution about Marvel's reliance on events. They may have the top 10 in the bag, but two of those are death of Captain America issues, two of those are miniseries, one of those is an outgoing superstar creative team, and two are still riding the Civil War high. Amazing Spider-Man is about the only entry on the list they can probably feel good about the staying power of.
you can't dismiss New Avengers though, it's consistantly been the best-selling ongoing book now for 2-1/2 years. if anything, ASM is riding CWs coattails more than NA.

[cleazer]

Wow, looks like Countdown is going to be a bit of a loser for DC. And it kind of makes sense too. Who wants to read a 52 week story that is only the beginning of the story? It takes 52 whole weeks for the event to just start! Bad idea in my book.

[Snowspinner]

good grief, congrats to Marvel, that's a shellacking.

you can't dismiss New Avengers though, it's consistantly been the best-selling ongoing book now for 2-1/2 years. if anything, ASM is riding CWs coattails more than NA.

True, but it's also a book that's almost never been out of event mode. And ASM is its own weirdness, with all the Spider-Man titles clearly coming in for a heavy retooling soon.

Which is part of what's so maddening about these sales charts of late. They provide no sense of where we're going because so much of the market is ephemeral these days, especially on Marvel's side of things. I can't think of more than two Marvel titles where I have faith that the title I'm enjoying today will still be pretty similar in a year, little yet two years. Whereas I can't think of a DC ongoing where I don't basically have that feeling.

[Snowspinner]

Wow, looks like Countdown is going to be a bit of a loser for DC. And it kind of makes sense too. Who wants to read a 52 week story that is only the beginning of the story? It takes 52 whole weeks for the event to just start! Bad idea in my book.

I dunno, a weekly title that sells around the numbers of Grant Morrison on Batman seems like a pretty good idea to me...

[artiepants]

One curious observation, how come all titles suffer such a big drop in sales from the previous month??
because last month the ndex was based on Detective because Batman didn't ship, and since Detective sells less, it made the higher selling books have a higher relative index :)

[Truthseeker]

I see DC missing opurtunity after oppurtunity. I can't believe that when 52 ended and everyone was talking about it about the title and there was so much good will over the book meeting all it's deadlines that they dropped the ball on the follow up. Sure Countdown started, but where are the spin off books? They announced a few titles piecemeal here and there. They had very little supporting teaser art and some of the titles haven't even been announced yet.

They should have been out in front the dday 52 ended with a list of titles coming out and preview art for each. Instead we have a small announcement here or there and no big push for any of these titles. 52 remade the DCU and they act like it is no big deal.

They need to get their production schedule fixed and get their marketing back on track.

[Snowspinner]

I see DC missing opurtunity after oppurtunity. I can't believe that when 52 ended and everyone was talking about it about the title and there was so much good will over the book meeting all it's deadlines that they dropped the ball on the follow up. Sure Countdown started, but where are the spin off books? They announced a few titles piecemeal here and there. They had very little supporting teaser art and some of the titles haven't even been announced yet.

They should have been out in front the dday 52 ended with a list of titles coming out and preview art for each. Instead we have a small announcement here or there and no big push for any of these titles. 52 remade the DCU and they act like it is no big deal.

They need to get their production schedule fixed and get their marketing back on track.

Well, it's a Catch-22. They could have had the Black Adam series launch the week after 52... but they'd have had to admit that Black Adam survived in the solicits months in advance, killing interest in 52. This is a major problem with event books - note the several months lag in some of the Civil War titles too. Can't launch Champions (or whatever it's called now) until after Civil War #7. Have to sell Fallen Son on the basis of its creative teams alone (which is thankfully pretty easy). It was a big problem with the House of M fallout too.

[Erikcrusade]

Wow, looks like Countdown is going to be a bit of a loser for DC. And it kind of makes sense too. Who wants to read a 52 week story that is only the beginning of the story? It takes 52 whole weeks for the event to just start! Bad idea in my book.

Since 52 was an incredible overacheiver by all of DC's noted expectations...i'm not sure I would agree with this.....it's still well above th enubers for many of their other published books....

[matchesmalone]

Countdown sucks. Here's why:

1.Mediocre artists who draw the characters differently than they have looked (e.g., Jimmy Olsen, Mary Marvel) and differntly from week to week (e.g., Jimmy Olsen, Mary Marvel).

2. Mediocre writers, plus Paul Dini to put in a bit of "punchy" dialog (which unfortunately makes the "zingers" stick out).

3. Characters few people care about

4. 2-page spreads and 4-page history of the multiverse rehashed stuff eating up real estate and making the story go even slower

5. Covers that don't relate to the story + books tied in to Countdown to give them a boost + last issue: "Next Issue: Amazons Attack" and then this issue: nothing about Amazons Attack...

(feel free to add)

[Snowspinner]

Countdown sucks. Here's why:

1.Mediocre artists who draw the characters differently than they have looked (e.g., Jimmy Olsen, Mary Marvel) and differntly from week to week (e.g., Jimmy Olsen, Mary Marvel).

2. Mediocre writers, plus Paul Dini to put in a bit of "punchy" dialog (which unfortunately makes the "zingers" stick out).

3. Characters few people care about

4. 2-page spreads and 4-page history of the multiverse rehashed stuff eating up real estate and making the story go even slower

5. Covers that don't relate to the story + books tied in to Countdown to give them a boost + last issue: "Next Issue: Amazons Attack" and then this issue: nothing about Amazons Attack...

(feel free to add)

6. Coming out weekly means far too many opportunities for trolls to derail threads with off-topic condemnations of the book, including blanket decrees that the book "sucks" as though this is some sort of objective fact.

[jmcl89]

If Countdown declines steadily over the year, it will be a disappointment (this month, I figure, it went from approximately 91,000 to 80,000). But I think it's sales will ping-pong around more than 52's did, depending on what is going on and which characters are featured.

Looks like most of the regular DC books held steady from last month or saw modest increases. So the concerns for DC are that Amazons Attack is disappointing and Countdown may turn out to be, as well.

[SDM]

That's ridiculous. On the flip side, Dark Tower is a huge seller at my store and every Dark Tower fan loves the series because of its amazing art, faithful script, and what not.

[Erikcrusade]

6. Coming out weekly means far too many opportunities for trolls to derail threads with off-topic condemnations of the book, including blanket decrees that the book "sucks" as though this is some sort of objective fact.

Bravo. Here here.

[SDM]

My post was in response to Simon's about DT, BTW.

[CaptainCanad]

It gladdens my cynical heart to see Captain America #26 up so high (although sadly doing less business then Fallen Son, despite the fact that Cap is where all the real action is).

[cleazer]

It's also notable that Marvel just plain ships more than DCDoesn't DC usually ship a few more titles than Marvel?
I haven't looked at the totals lately, so I'll count now....

just looking at new comics, not counting tpb's, statues, posters, 2nd printings, etc

In April 2007, DC shipped 84 new comics, and Marvel shipped 71. So that confirms my previous impressions.

Looking at another month to see if the trend continues, in May 2007 DC shipped 80, while Marvel shipped 79. Interesting, so Marvel was really close to DC last month in number of books shipped, which may explain why Marvel had such a huge margin over them on the sales charts.

If Marvel is really shipping more titles in June, like you claim, then I'd expect the June charts to show an even bigger difference than the May numbers we're looking at right now.

[thefourthman]

I'm surprised by the comparatively low placing of the two WWH tie-ins released so far. That's got to be a mark of concern for Marvel, though obviously the real news will be how the first issue of the main series goes.

Beyond that, there's my usual note of caution about Marvel's reliance on events. They may have the top 10 in the bag, but two of those are death of Captain America issues, two of those are miniseries, one of those is an outgoing superstar creative team, and two are still riding the Civil War high. Amazing Spider-Man is about the only entry on the list they can probably feel good about the staying power of. I'm also surprised to see Wolverine take such a large tumble. Did the Loeb arc end already, or was this its conclusion?

DC is similarly relying on events for their top placers, with the JLA/JSA crossover and a short-run superstar team on JLA, but at least you've got some comfort down the charts a bit - positions 26-50 (when DC really re-enters the charts) are broken down like this:

DC: 10
Marvel: 15

But of DC's 10, only one, Wonder Woman, could be considered eventy right now (tying to Amazons Attack, which is doing dreadfully anyway). Of Marvel's 15, 9 are miniseries or Civil War: Initiative titles.


Good points all around. But on these a couple of notes.
WWH and IH #106 both sold out intial printings and had second printings in the fifth week, how well would the books have done if they had not been under printed to begin with?

Hate to tell you both companies are completely event driven. Civil War has greatly effected Avengers and almost every other Marvel book and with the events of #31 leading to another company crossover, event is the name of the game. Countdown works much the same way giving all of DC's core books a unity they have never had before as literally everything but Spirit and Jonah Hex (and all non continuity books) are crossing over.

[Snowspinner]

Doesn't DC usually ship a few more titles than Marvel?
I haven't looked at the totals lately, so I'll count now....

just looking at new comics, not counting tpb's, statues, posters, 2nd printings, etc

In April 2007, DC shipped 84 new comics, and Marvel shipped 71. So that confirms my previous impressions.

Looking at another month to see if the trend continues, in May 2007 DC shipped 80, while Marvel shipped 79. Interesting, so Marvel was really close to DC last month, which may explain why Marvel had such a huge margin over them.

If Marvel is really shipping more titles in June, like you claim, then I'd expect the June charts to show an even bigger difference than the May numbers we're looking at right now.

True, but again, that counts all of DC's lines - and it's misleading to compare Vertigo or Wildstorm to Marvel. If you pare it down to just the main DC line (Which includes books like Looney Tunes, Mad Magazine, and The Batman Strikes, which balances out Marvel's including the Marvel Adventures stuff) then the difference becomes really striking.

(That said, looking at the "books this week" lists at scifigenre.com, which is where I got my numbers, I still have Marvel shipping 6 more titles in May than DC. Maybe I'm counting something wrong?)

[Snowspinner]

Hate to tell you both companies are completely event driven. Civil War has greatly effected Avengers and almost every other Marvel book and with the events of #31 leading to another company crossover, event is the name of the game. Countdown works much the same way giving all of DC's core books a unity they have never had before as literally everything but Spirit and Jonah Hex (and all non continuity books) are crossing over.

That may be true in a month or two - but right now? Green Lantern, Action Comics, Superman, Batman, Detective Comics, and, up until the most recent issue, Teen Titans haven't been tied to Countdown at all. Wonder Woman is tied to Amazons Attack right now (no doubt to its sales detriment, considering the bomb that title is), and a few others like Outsiders and Checkmate are picking up threads of 52, but so far we don't have that kind of top-down crossover-enforced unity. It remains to be seen where we'll go with this - it's certainly something I'm worried about.

[Eli Renfro]

So, Dark Tower is still selling. Wow.

Why "wow"? Because the comics fans I know really den't seem to care - I haven't seen a review post or discussion for it in three months, either here or at GeoffJohns.com. And because the Dark Tower fans I know HATE it. Hate the art, hate the script, hate everything but the original books.

Clearly, my friends and myself are in the minority among DT fans in general. Marvel made a great move in signing with King. Though whether it means that anyone who's reading a comic book for the first time will ever read anything is impossible to say.

I'm a Dark Tower fan, and a comic fan, and I think Dark Tower is easily the best thing Marvel is publishing right now (which actually isn't saying much, but that's another conversation). People hate the art? That kind of just baffles my mind.

[artiepants]

It gladdens my cynical heart to see Captain America #26 up so high (although sadly doing less business then Fallen Son, despite the fact that Cap is where all the real action is).
yeah, Fallen Son has been pretty mediocre, wish those #s were reversed.

[Truthseeker]

Well, it's a Catch-22. They could have had the Black Adam series launch the week after 52... but they'd have had to admit that Black Adam survived in the solicits months in advance, killing interest in 52. This is a major problem with event books - note the several months lag in some of the Civil War titles too. Can't launch Champions (or whatever it's called now) until after Civil War #7. Have to sell Fallen Son on the basis of its creative teams alone (which is thankfully pretty easy). It was a big problem with the House of M fallout too.


I don't mean launch the book. But announce in a big way here is the list of books that are coming out of 52. It would have been great to see the list of books, the creative teams and a ton of art from each. Even if the art had been in the form of sketches and concept design work. A free sketch book style promotional piece coming in or with Countdown one would have also been great.

Sure the books could not start right after but more attention into launching them and getting the fans from 52 to pick them up would have been a huge help.

[cleazer]

the tracking from the end of 52 to the start of Countdown went roughly like this (all numbers in this month's scale):

52 48 108.64
52 49 108.60
52 50 111.34
52 51 108.89
52 52 127.40
CD 51 113.68
CD 50 104.53
CD 49 101.70
CD 48 99.61

Which is noticably worse than 52, but still probably a success by any measure - especially considering all the factors alligning against the book (Mediocre initial reviews, unclear premise, fatigue, lesser creative team). The drop leveled of a lot after 51-50, so assuming it can keep the tendency of 52 to drop very narrowly week to week, this should prove to be a good idea for DC.You're looking at the index numbers. It's easier to look at the real numbers (using icv2's numbers from last month, and my estimates for this month, which are usually pretty close to icv2):

52 Week 48 — 94,715
52 Week 49 — 94,681
52 Week 50 — 97,073
52 Week 51 — 94,934
52 Week 52 — 100,600
Countdown 51 — 89,800
Countdown 50 — 82,500
Countdown 49 — 80,300
Countdown 48 — 78,600


Those are some alarming drops for the first 4 issues of Countdown. The fact that the very first issue of Countdown was lower than the worst issue of 52 is a big red flag.

Yeah, it's still selling better than most of DC's titles at the moment, but I think 52 took a lot away from DC's other titles, and if DC devotes a lot of effort to keeping Countdown on the same weekly schedule, and doesn't see the same sales boost as they did with 52, it's going to be a bad year.

[mushroom2703]

6. Coming out weekly means far too many opportunities for trolls to derail threads with off-topic condemnations of the book, including blanket decrees that the book "sucks" as though this is some sort of objective fact.

Derailing threads? I love countdown, but when I read his post, I wasn't suddenly under the impression that "it sucks" was fact; i was under the impression thats his opinion, which he then gave his reasons for., and which is fair play.

[Simon DelMonte]

That's ridiculous. On the flip side, Dark Tower is a huge seller at my store and every Dark Tower fan loves the series because of its amazing art, faithful script, and what not.

My friends are...particular? And for four months, I tried to defend this book. But last week's issue bored me to tears. Though for the record, I found the book this is based on to be the one dull book in the series.

[Toneloak]

#9 ALL STAR BATMAN & ROBIN #5* Yeah baby the world is still round sane.:D:D:D:D

Man, it looks like DC is trying to not be #2 anymore looks like they're going for the #3 position or something.

[spidertour02]

I'm surprised that the numbers diverged like this. Normally, Marvel and DC are very close in market share numbers, but this month Marvel blew DC away. :eek:

[President Kang]

I'm surprised by the comparatively low placing of the two WWH tie-ins released so far. That's got to be a mark of concern for Marvel, though obviously the real news will be how the first issue of the main series goes.
.

Low? Yer kiddin, right? WWH prologue was a top 10 book.

[Snowspinner]

You're looking at the index numbers. It's easier to look at the real numbers (using icv2's numbers from last month, and my estimates for this month, which are usually pretty close to icv2):


No I'm not. Or, at least, not purely - I was using index numbers for each month adjusted (on the assumption that Detective Comics has steady sales) to this month.


52 Week 48 — 94,715
52 Week 49 — 94,681
52 Week 50 — 97,073
52 Week 51 — 94,934
52 Week 52 — 100,600
Countdown 51 — 89,800
Countdown 50 — 82,500
Countdown 49 — 80,300
Countdown 48 — 78,600


I'm using http://www.cbgxtra.com/Default.aspx?tabid=2182 for my April sales figures, and again assuming that Detective Comics had about the same sales in April and May. So if you want a sales numbers chart, I'd guess:

52 48: 94,618
52 49: 94,585
52 50: 96,974
52 51: 94,838
52 52: 110,956
CD 51: 99,006
CD 50: 91,037
CD 49: 88,572
CD 48: 86,752.

That may well be high for the tail end there, as I look at it, though - Detective switched from the regular team for April's issue to a fill-in for May's. Assuming May's fill-in did about as well as March's, your numbers would become

52 52: 103,632
CD 51: 92,471
CD 50: 85,028
CD 49: 82,726
CD 48: 81,026


That does get numbers closer to what you said, with CD 51 basically picking up as declining from 52 51. But again, this is a problem only if your standard is that Countdown match 52. A weekly book that mcomes in around Batman, Uncanny X-men, Superman/Batman, Ultimate Spider-Man, etc levels is a good deal by any measure.

[Snowspinner]

Low? Yer kiddin, right? WWH prologue was a top 10 book.

Yes, but if we're comparing Countdown to 52 we ought to be comparing WWH to Civil War. In which case, ouch. I'd have expected the prologue to be a top 3 book.

[thefourthman]

#9 ALL STAR BATMAN & ROBIN #5* Yeah baby the world is still round sane.:D:D:D:D

Man, it looks like DC is trying to not be #2 anymore looks like they're going for the #3 position or something.
Now that's just silly. They still out sell all the other competition by leaps and bounds.

[thefourthman]

Yes, but if we're comparing Countdown to 52 we ought to be comparing WWH to Civil War. In which case, ouch. I'd have expected the prologue to be a top 3 book.
Comparing sales of an event mini to sales of a prologue (which is fan service so that no one says but how'd Hulk get to earth) to an event mini is reaching.

[Snowspinner]

Comparing sales of an event mini to sales of a prologue (which is fan service so that no one says but how'd Hulk get to earth) to an event mini is reaching.

All right, so let's compare Hulk's sales to those of ASM the month before Civil War (since both were doing lead-ins).

ASM hit #8. Hulk was 11.

The Illuminati special that helped lead to Civil War was 4, vs. WWH prologue's 10. End of the world? No. But I'd be nervous if I were running Marvel right now.

[cleazer]

So if you want a sales numbers chart, I'd guess:

52 48: 94,618
52 49: 94,585
52 50: 96,974
52 51: 94,838
52 52: 110,956
CD 51: 99,006
CD 50: 91,037
CD 49: 88,572
CD 48: 86,752.

That may well be high for the tail end there, as I look at it, What's the point of even posting numbers that are so obviously wrong? :rolleyes: If you go by those numbers, just about every single title on the chart had a huge increase from last month. As much as I'd love for the comics industry to take off and experience exponential growth, that didn't happen.

If you want to estimate the sales based on the index numbers, you can't just guess about how well Detective or Batman did. You have to look at titles that have historically consistent sales, like Fables and Y The Last Man.
That does get numbers closer to what you said, with CD 51 basically picking up as declining from 52 51.Yeah, but look at what happen when you get all the way down to Countdown 48. It's more than 10K lower than Countdown 51. That pretty much tells you that the numbers for Countdown obviously aren't just continuations of the sales numbers from 52.
But again, this is a problem only if your standard is that Countdown match 52. A weekly book that mcomes in around Batman, Uncanny X-men, Superman/Batman, Ultimate Spider-Man, etc levels is a good deal by any measure.I'll agree with that. If you just look at the actual numbers and don't consider anything else, they're great. I'm worried about the drops between 51, 50, 49, and 48 though. If the issues keep dropping like that, it won't be around those titles after another 2 or 3 months. Countdown will be well below those other titles.

[matchesmalone]

Derailing threads? I love countdown, but when I read his post, I wasn't suddenly under the impression that "it sucks" was fact; i was under the impression thats his opinion, which he then gave his reasons for., and which is fair play.

Thank you, Mushroom, for pointing out that expressing an opinion, especially one backed up with reasons, is not trolling.

I'm more offended by the closedmindedness of people calling opinions they don't agree with "trolling" than I am by anyone's opinion of anything!

I'm glad for you that you're enjoying it.

And Countdown is not peripheral to this discussion - I believe that it's sales, and hence DC's market position, would be better if it was executed differently.

Additionally, DC has killed my enthusiasm for buying their books with the excessive delays and fill-ins. They've broken my habit through unreliability - I'm reading library copies of trades instead.

[thefourthman]

All right, so let's compare Hulk's sales to those of ASM the month before Civil War (since both were doing lead-ins).

ASM hit #8. Hulk was 11.

The Illuminati special that helped lead to Civil War was 4, vs. WWH prologue's 10. End of the world? No. But I'd be nervous if I were running Marvel right now.
I wouldn't be, WWH #1 is flying of the shelves. We ordered very heavy and have had to reorder.
Edit: And WWH Prologue still sold out the first week and didn't get a reprint for four more weeks, thats three weeks of missed oppurtunity. I wouldn't be surprised if it made the top 200 next month.

[cleazer]

Yes, but if we're comparing Countdown to 52 we ought to be comparing WWH to Civil War. In which case, ouch. I'd have expected the prologue to be a top 3 book.Talk about comparing apples to oranges. I don't think anyone expected WWH to even come close to Civil War.
Countdown is obviously designed to be the immediate weekly successor to 52, so there's every reason to compare the sales between the 2.
The Illuminati special that helped lead to Civil War was 4, vs. WWH prologue's 10. End of the world? No. But I'd be nervous if I were running Marvel right now.:eek:
I really don't think you know what you're talking about. Civil War was Marvel's biggest event of the decade. WWH is just a fun little summer crossover in comparison. It's not supposed to reshape the whole Marvel Universe the way Civil did.

[Toneloak]

Yes, but if we're comparing Countdown to 52 we ought to be comparing WWH to Civil War. In which case, ouch. I'd have expected the prologue to be a top 3 book.
I just get the feeling you're trying to marginalize Marvel's success. You seem to me to wrap your bias in sales annalists.

I guess Spinner is in your name for some reason. I call shenanigans. I think we have a DC employee on the Rama boards.

[thefourthman]

What's the point of even posting numbers that are so obviously wrong? :rolleyes: If you go by those numbers, just about every single title on the chart had a huge increase from last month. As much as I'd love for the comics industry to take off and experience exponential growth, that didn't happen.

If you want to estimate the sales based on the index numbers, you can't just guess about how well Detective or Batman did. You have to look at titles that have historically consistent sales, like Fables and Y The Last Man.
Yeah, but look at what happen when you get all the way down to Countdown 48. It's more than 10K lower than Countdown 51. That pretty much tells you that the numbers for Countdown obviously aren't just continuations of the sales numbers from 52.
I'll agree with that. If you just look at the actual numbers and don't consider anything else, they're great. I'm worried about the drops between 51, 50, 49, and 48 though. If the issues keep dropping like that, it won't be around those titles after another 2 or 3 months. Countdown will be well below those other titles.
You're forgetting 48 only had one week to sell, 51 had three. We didn't sell out of 51 at any one of my locations until the week 48 hit. Numbers will mean more in two months, When the book has stabilized.

[Toneloak]

Now that's just silly. They still out sell all the other competition by leaps and bounds.
I'm just saying. ;)


But, I know my all time favorite DC book (All Star Batman and Robin The Boy Wonder) will be there. No matter what company they morph into. It's ongoing baby, with a faster artist on the horizon. Good Times, Good Times.

[Toneloak]

Now that's just silly. They still out sell all the other competition by leaps and bounds.
I'm just saying. ;)


But, I know my all time favorite DC book (All Star Batman and Robin The Boy Wonder) will be there. No matter what company they morph into. It's ongoing baby, with a faster artist on the horizon. Good Times, Good Times.

[cleazer]

You're forgetting 48 only had one week to sell, 51 had three. We didn't sell out of 51 at any one of my locations until the week 48 hit. Numbers will mean more in two months, When the book has stabilized.Oh certainly. I'll be paying close attention to the numbers for Countdown over the next 2-3 months. If the numbers can stabilize where they are right now, that'd be great for DC. (But based on word of mouth and the drops we're seeing so far, it doesn't exactly look likely.)

[Snowspinner]

I'll agree with that. If you just look at the actual numbers and don't consider anything else, they're great. I'm worried about the drops between 51, 50, 49, and 48 though. If the issues keep dropping like that, it won't be around those titles after another 2 or 3 months. Countdown will be well below those other titles.

Yeah, but go back a year and you saw the same fast drop-off on 52. Using your numbers, the drops were as follows:

51-50: 8.1%
50-49: 2.7%
49-48: 2.1%

The dropoffs for 52 were

1-2: 8.9%
2-3: 3.4%
3-4: 2.0%

So we're definitely in the same ballpark. In which case I'd estimate, by your numbers, Countdown #2 selling 60,443 copies, right in line with Wonder Woman, Teen Titans, and Ultimate X-Men. Again - good deal.

[Snowspinner]

I wouldn't be, WWH #1 is flying of the shelves. We ordered very heavy and have had to reorder.
Edit: And WWH Prologue still sold out the first week and didn't get a reprint for four more weeks, thats three weeks of missed oppurtunity. I wouldn't be surprised if it made the top 200 next month.

Good to know. And as I said in my first post on the subject, the real news will be next month when we see what WWH #1 did.

And particularly when we can compare WWH #1 to Civil War #7, and see how that did in relation to Countdown #51 and 52 #52. :)

[jmcl89]

Considering Countdown costs 20% more than 52, and is using what I would guess are substantially less expensive writers (other than Dini), I'd regard it as comparably successful for DC if it can consistently sell above 70K a week. It will probably be a few months before it becomes clear whether that will be the case, though.

[Snowspinner]

I just get the feeling you're trying to marginalize Marvel's success. You seem to me to wrap your bias in sales annalists.

I guess Spinner is in your name for some reason. I call shenanigans. I think we have a DC employee on the Rama boards.

That's a mighty big accusation there, mate.

Also, we call it "analysis." And it's what you do with statistics.

[Toneloak]

That's a mighty big accusation there, mate.
An answer will sate my inquiry. And I'll move on, unless you feel that that information is too personal.

[Erikcrusade]

I just get the feeling you're trying to marginalize Marvel's success. You seem to me to wrap your bias in sales annalists.

I guess Spinner is in your name for some reason. I call shenanigans. I think we have a DC employee on the Rama boards.

By that logic, you must work for Marvel then....:rolleyes:

[thefourthman]

Yeah, but go back a year and you saw the same fast drop-off on 52. Using your numbers, the drops were as follows:

51-50: 8.1%
50-49: 2.7%
49-48: 2.1%

The dropoffs for 52 were

1-2: 8.9%
2-3: 3.4%
3-4: 2.0%

So we're definitely in the same ballpark. In which case I'd estimate, by your numbers, Countdown #2 selling 60,443 copies, right in line with Wonder Woman, Teen Titans, and Ultimate X-Men. Again - good deal.
Uh just out of curiousity, what where the sales figures for 52 1-4? As even at 2.0% attrition for 100,000 copies is a big number.

[Snowspinner]

An answer will sate my inquiry. And I'll move on, unless you feel that that information is too personal.

I use my handle in plenty of places on the Internet. You can find out who I am pretty easily if you want.

[artiepants]

#9Man, it looks like DC is trying to not be #2 anymore looks like they're going for the #3 position or something.
i lol'd. <jgjgjg>

[Toneloak]

By that logic, you must work for Marvel then....:rolleyes:
I originally commented because of my excitement for the ASB&RTBW rumors being false does that really seem like a Marvel man. Beside, my main goal in regards to my Spinner evaluations was pointing out his bias in his analysts.

[pez dispenser]

I'd be nervous if I were running Marvel right now.


I'm certain that they're soiling themselves with worry at this point.

[LikeaPhoenix]

because last month the ndex was based on Detective because Batman didn't ship, and since Detective sells less, it made the higher selling books have a higher relative index :)

Thank you for the explanation. But isn't this method a bit confusing? Why base everything on Batman and then base it on another whenever Batman doesn't ship? Why can't they base the whole thing on the actual number of copies shipped or ordered?

[thefourthman]

Thank you for the explanation. But isn't this method a bit confusing? Why base everything on Batman and then base it on another whenever Batman doesn't ship? Why can't they base the whole thing on the actual number of copies shipped or ordered?
Why not just print the numbers?

[Snowspinner]

I originally commented because of my excitement for the ASB&RTBW rumors being false does that really seem like a Marvel man. Beside, my main goal in regards to my Spinner evaluations was pointing out his bias in his analysts.

That bias would be your totally made up accusation that I work for DC?

[IronWolf]

Marvel has been taking some big chances with their character MAIN characters at that not just B-list and its paying off. to be Fair to DC the Entire story has no unfolded with regards to count down, but i have to admit i almost dropped marvel until The Death of Cap, i gotta say I'm a sucker for a company that would do something so Effin' crazy. But so far the Stories and the characters are the best they have been and there is excitement in the air and uncertainty, you just don't know where the stories are going to go and that also wins big with me. And its not like i'm a big giant fan of Death in comics it is a bit over done but when the death means something and the character strikes a chord like cap dose man it can work.

[artiepants]

But isn't this method a bit confusing?
yes it is.
Why base everything on Batman and then base it on another whenever Batman doesn't ship?
i think the logic is, Batman always ships (until Grant Morrison and Adam Kubert prove you wrong) and always sells a relatively stable number of copies, unless you put Jim Lee and Jeoph Loeb
Why can't they base the whole thing on the actual number of copies shipped or ordered?
i'm guessing the companies don't want those numbers released? but i really have no idea why.

[ZEBULON]

I just get the feeling you're trying to marginalize Marvel's success. You seem to me to wrap your bias in sales annalists.

I guess Spinner is in your name for some reason. I call shenanigans. I think we have a DC employee on the Rama boards.

I second that, but whether he is an employee or not, (which he doesnt seem to want to answer straight,) It's still amusing to watch the hard core dc trolls try to find any reason why every month dc falls further and further behind marvel, instead of looking right at didio's door. (Which for most of them, I'm sure is right down the hall.)

Remember in crisis when alexander luthor crushed the two planets that added up to 616, and it was supposed to be marvel's downfall? . . .Hmmm. Remember when the dc execs said they wouldnt do a crossover with marvel until quesada was fired? The way things are going, dc is going to have to do a crossover with marvel just to have a top ten book.

Step 1 No more didio and no more asinine exclusive contracts which he started with morrison. I want bendis on batman, brubaker on nightwing, geoff on spiderman's rogue gallery, and morrison on . . .well, whatever. I want no more of didios poor sales decisions which have only hurt some of my favorite characters. I want superboy prime to punch didio in the face and a great big sigh of do-over for dc.

Hmm but who would make a better eic of dc? loeb? Quesada? Waid? hmmm?

[Master Bates]

This is no surprise to me.

Every DC book I've picked up over the last 3 months has sucked more balls than RuPaul.

Marvel is hitting everything out of the park.

Only DC book I've enjoyed recently was ASBR.

heh.

[JLAJRC]

Congrats to Marvel. I know I've been enjoying them lately.

[nickmaynard]

With great books coming from the big two, everybody wins.
quoted for truth!

[Jomma]

Well of course Marvel is going to have good numbers in the month of May. All those clueless Movie Bandwagon fans who went to see spiderman 3 and then went to Borders or B&N to buy the latest issue of spiderman are gonna bring in the moola.

When Marvel comics get lame...they release a movie to make up the loses.

[Evan Waters]

Wow, DC is getting clobbered and pummelled by Marvel, again! It goes to show that if you have wonderful, well-thought-out and executed stuff, people will buy.


:::Laughs uncontrollably:::

[The Shadow]

Well, it's a Catch-22. They could have had the Black Adam series launch the week after 52... but they'd have had to admit that Black Adam survived in the solicits months in advance, killing interest in 52. This is a major problem with event books - note the several months lag in some of the Civil War titles too.
I dunno... Marvel put out cover images but "Top Secret" where the information should have been in solicits thus not spilling anything like the death of Cap and so on.

It can be done.

[The Shadow]

I'd be nervous if I were running Marvel right now.
Yes... being #1 by a wide margin is most certainly a cause for worry!!!

[The Shadow]

Well of course Marvel is going to have good numbers in the month of May. All those clueless Movie Bandwagon fans who went to see spiderman 3 and then went to Borders or B&N to buy the latest issue of spiderman are gonna bring in the moola.

When Marvel comics get lame...they release a movie to make up the loses.
... I don't know if you're serious or not... but the sales of Spider-Man didn't suddenly jump because of the movie release nor will the FF's sales jump with the next movie.

I gotta think you're joking... right? :confused:

[Johnny Triangles]

6. Coming out weekly means far too many opportunities for trolls to derail threads with off-topic condemnations of the book, including blanket decrees that the book "sucks" as though this is some sort of objective fact.


How is someone examining the problems with a book in response to an article THAT SPECIFICALLY TALKS ABOUT HOW THE BOOK IS OFF TO A BAD START off-topic trolling? Seriously, explain it to me. Why are people so defensive about this damn book like it's somehow immune to criticism just because they may happen to like it?

Here's an idea: if you like this book so much, if you think it's such a great idea with a great execution, why not just respond with actual counterarguments and proof instead of just complaining and namecalling when someone criticizes it?

[Snowspinner]

Yes... being #1 by a wide margin is most certainly a cause for worry!!!

Marvel's bottom line right now is built on events. This is their strength and weakness. The strength is that their events are money machines. The weakness is that it means they have to come up with something massive and successful every year to keep their bottom line intact.

I'm sure WWH will do fine. Wonder how the big Skrull crossover will go, though...

And so on, and so forth. Lord knows I wouldn't want to be responsible every year for the make or break event.

[Disco Cookie]

Marvel's bottom line right now is built on events. This is their strength and weakness. The strength is that their events are money machines. The weakness is that it means they have to come up with something massive and successful every year to keep their bottom line intact.

I'm sure WWH will do fine. Wonder how the big Skrull crossover will go, though...

And so on, and so forth. Lord knows I wouldn't want to be responsible every year for the make or break event.

I'm evented out by the big two at the moment.

And especially Civil War-ed out. If I see another scene where someone bitches to Iron Man about how bad he was I will literally throw the comic out the window.

I will then retrieve it and bag it...

[Johnny Triangles]

Marvel's bottom line right now is built on events. This is their strength and weakness. The strength is that their events are money machines. The weakness is that it means they have to come up with something massive and successful every year to keep their bottom line intact.



Unlike Didio's DC right? They've been so event free since Identity Crisis. They wouldn't do anything like having a 52 week long event that is just the beginning of another event, would they? :)

[Raphael]

I'm worried about the drops between 51, 50, 49, and 48 though. If the issues keep dropping like that, it won't be around those titles after another 2 or 3 months. Countdown will be well below those other titles.

IMO this trend will reverse itself and soon. At my LCS, the owner guesstimated that 75% of 52 numbers would be about right for Countdown, citing some fan grumbling about pacing and art, etc... despite the fact that all but a literal handful stuck it out through to the very end. However... orders are now running at 120% of 52. The consensus is that the artwork has improved, bigger characters are front and center and "things are happening" (or even bigger things are about to). Personally, I have faith in Paul Dini to amp things up even more as the story unfolds.

Having said all that, I really hope that DC gets its ship back in order. Simply put, books need to ship on time. Primadonnas and superstars don't mean squat if they can't deliver the goods. This "exclusivity" arms race between Marvel and DC may be the worst thing to hit the industry in many years. Just my .02 cents worth, adjusted for inflation.

[MaSaKaRi]

Sad to see so many people fueling the Marvel hype event machine, mostly the same people who bitch about 4 one-shots after 52, or the ones during IC, but then go out and buy the gazillion one-shots and minis from CW.

Atm Marvel is really smashing everybody, but that's due to the events, the Marvel line isn't THAT good. DC isn't in good shape either, but it kinda saddens me to see such a wide gap when the difference between the two publishers is really minimal.

[Snowspinner]

Unlike Didio's DC right? They've been so event free since Identity Crisis. They wouldn't do anything like having a 52 week long event that is just the beginning of another event, would they? :)

Ah, but what percent of their books were tying into 52 last year? And what percent of Marvel's books tied into Civil War or are still tying into Civil War?

All bets may well be off with Countdown - I'm certainly nervous about tie-in fever here. but at least sicne OYL, DC has kept their titles pretty self-contained.

[Prometheus3]

It's good to see a quality comic book like Civil War: Fallen Son - The Death of Captain America: Captain America be the #1 comic book of the month. But I am disgusted that All Star Batman and Robin #5 sold so well. It really goes to show you that comic book companies can release books as late as they want and people will still shell out money for them.

[Toneloak]

But I am disgusted that All Star Batman and Robin #5 sold so well. It really goes to show you that comic book companies can release books as late as they want and people will still shell out money for them.
hahahahaha I love love loooovvveee All Star Batman and Robin The Boy Wonder. I'm as happy as a clam for Miller and Lee. But, I think they're cleaning up there game with the rumors of a new artist on the book. Come Ooon! give me a smiley face:)

[Toneloak]

That bias would be your totally made up accusation that I work for DC?
WOW, (accusation) thinking or a thought does not equate to a accusing someone of something. You've elevated my idea (albeit half hearted) to an accusations. Seems like someone is fishing for inter-ignorants.

What I have accused you of is having a bias and letting it corrupt your analysts of the sales charts & sales reports. If there is a bout to be had, I would target that topic. But, that's just me.

[beta-ray]

Hmn kind of surprising. I would have thought it would be a narrow gap again this month.

Other surprising things:
- Dark Tower at 2? A pleasant surprise (meaning that not only comic otaku are buying this)
- The Fallen Son title coming in so high
- No excessive bitching about how fans supporting ASBR ruin everything by supporting an "unprofessionally late" title. Another thing that is nice.

[Drcharles]

I wonder what kind of sales figs ''CatWoman'' one of DCs finest bks as managed to acquire ?
and,
HawkGirl and Aquaman ? I would like to know how low they have come out ?

[Drcharles]

Noticed the SPIRIT #6 at 29.59 this is falling dispite what a few people here say how great the bk is , its not, and its dropping fast, and in the next few mths it will fall a bit more, I've '' jacked'' at # 8.
By the way,

Where the Hell is the Atom and Blue Beetle ?
Another quality OYL relaunch........LOL,
oh and Bats All Star,.......Jesus ! now that is a miracle......

[JohnLynch]

Yes, but if we're comparing Countdown to 52 we ought to be comparing WWH to Civil War. In which case, ouch. I'd have expected the prologue to be a top 3 book.But it was a rehash book, there was nothing (except one story with some minor character?) new.

particularly when we can compare WWH #1 to Civil War #7, and see how that did in relation to Countdown #51 and 52 #52. :)You're still comparing apples and oranges. Civil War was THE event of the year, WH is a nice fun sidetrip for Hulk fans.

They wouldn't do anything like having a 52 week long event that is just the beginning of another event, would they? :)I wouldn't call 1 comic an "event." Amazons Attack is an event, Trials of Shazam isn't an event. World War Hulk is an event, Amazing Spider-Man (once it becomes 3 times a month) isn't an event. There's a difference.

[The Shadow]

Marvel's bottom line right now is built on events.
Verses DC's Identity Crisis, Infinite Crisis, the weekly 52, the weekly Countdown... not to mention One Year Later and so on... ???

[thefourthman]

I second that, but whether he is an employee or not, (which he doesnt seem to want to answer straight,) It's still amusing to watch the hard core dc trolls try to find any reason why every month dc falls further and further behind marvel, instead of looking right at didio's door. (Which for most of them, I'm sure is right down the hall.)

Remember in crisis when alexander luthor crushed the two planets that added up to 616, and it was supposed to be marvel's downfall? . . .Hmmm. Remember when the dc execs said they wouldnt do a crossover with marvel until quesada was fired? The way things are going, dc is going to have to do a crossover with marvel just to have a top ten book.

Step 1 No more didio and no more asinine exclusive contracts which he started with morrison. I want bendis on batman, brubaker on nightwing, geoff on spiderman's rogue gallery, and morrison on . . .well, whatever. I want no more of didios poor sales decisions which have only hurt some of my favorite characters. I want superboy prime to punch didio in the face and a great big sigh of do-over for dc.

Hmm but who would make a better eic of dc? loeb? Quesada? Waid? hmmm?
I tire of saying this. Marvel knocking it out of the park is not paramount to Didio and DC failing. DC is up. Marvel is through the atmosphere. How is it trolling when numbers prove the position. It is more like trolling to ignore the numbers and percentages and go wow Dark Horse has 1 book in the top twenty, DC must be shooting for third.
IT'S NOT DC VS MARVEL KIDS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cool you like Marvel, you like Q, you like Bendis. So do I.
But I also like DC, Dini, and Didio makes me laugh. It's cool, DC would be stupid to fold with its current plan because Marvel is doing their job so well. If that is the logic why do Dark Horse, Image, Viper, Virgin, Avatar, or any of the other publishers publish. Why don't they put their EIC's head on a spit and roast it to feed it to the internet masses? If nothing else, it should cause the other companies to sell more as more people come into shops or buy books else where. It should cause the other companies to see what they can do differently. Hell even Marvel is doing that, 52 sold so well that they have decided to can all the other Spidey books and put Amazing out 3 times a month. This isn't copying just for the hell of it. It is sound business. The other guys did this really well, lets give it a shot.
I just want Comic Books to be better and with what I see going on at Marvel & DC right now, the promise of companies like Virgin & Viper, and the complete 360 turn around at Image in the past four years, I see better comic books. Are they the cool nostalgic books of my youth, no.. They have transcended that. I think Comics are in a great place right now and only getting better. Let Marvel have their moment in the sun, they've had a rough time since the '90s. Good for them, but comics are doing well across the board and that's good for me (and you too, if you'll accept it)

[Johnny Triangles]

But it was a rehash book, there was nothing (except one story with some minor character?) new.

You're still comparing apples and oranges. Civil War was THE event of the year, WH is a nice fun sidetrip for Hulk fans.

I wouldn't call 1 comic an "event." Amazons Attack is an event, Trials of Shazam isn't an event. World War Hulk is an event, Amazing Spider-Man (once it becomes 3 times a month) isn't an event. There's a difference.

One can argue that maybe 52 shouldn't count as an event (although I'd disagree), but Countdown is definitely an event because it is counting down to a specific outcome, which hasn't been revealed yet. Much like Crisis was an event that counted down over 12 issues to one combined earth, countdown is an event that counts down over 52 issues to a major happening as well, although in this case that what it will lead to will just be another event. It even has tie-ins and everything.

[Evan Waters]

Noticed the SPIRIT #6 at 29.59 this is falling dispite what a few people here say how great the bk is , its not, and its dropping fast, .

"It's not selling well, therefore it isn't good."

The Michael Bay philosophy of art, ladies and gentlemen.

[thingone]

And from the Dollar share standpoint, the results were pretty much the same, with Marvel taking 42.80% to DC's 27.66%. It will take some further research, but either/or of these market share figures might be several year's lows for DC Comics, and the "spreads" between the two majors might be the highest in the Diamond era, or at least the post-Marvel bankruptcy era.
March 2005 Diamond dollar share
Marvel...41.60%
DC........25.69% (almost 2 percentage points less than May 2007's 27.66%)
Spread..15.91% (less than 1 percentage point more than May 2007's 15.14%)

[thefourthman]

March 2005 Diamond dollar share
Marvel...41.60%
DC........25.69% (almost 2 percentage points less than May 2007's 27.66%)
Spread..15.91% (less than 1 percentage point more than May 2007's 15.14%)
"Further Research"
...
Although... since almost all of that is Cap #25, maybe its being discounted as a fluke.

[Drink]

For those saying Marvel is relying just on events, remember that DC isn't exactly doing anything different. Infinite Crisis had tons of Tie-ins, as did the concurrent Civil War over at Marvel. Both World War Hulk and Amazons Attack have Tie-Ins. Countdown is going to and already has tie-ins all across the board.

The only difference between the two is that Marvel's Events sell better.

[hhbx]

I guess Spinner is in your name for some reason. I call shenanigans. I think we have a DC employee on the Rama boards.

Oh geez...this shits not going to start again, is it?

I think we saw enough of that when people dared criticize CW. :rolleyes:

[hhbx]

Where the Hell is the Atom and Blue Beetle ?
Another quality OYL relaunch........LOL,
oh and Bats All Star,.......Jesus ! now that is a miracle......

Which is pretty sad considering Atom and Blue Beetle are actually pretty damn enjoyable, All-Star Batman is enjoyable for a really different reason.

[hhbx]

Remember in crisis when alexander luthor crushed the two planets that added up to 616, and it was supposed to be marvel's downfall?

It was about Marvel's downfall? I thought it was one that had two warring worlds at was with each other. Thought it was a little jab if anything.

Hmmm. Remember when the dc execs said they wouldnt do a crossover with marvel until quesada was fired? The way things are going, dc is going to have to do a crossover with marvel just to have a top ten book.

I may be wrong, but I still think the numbers three and nine are part of the numbers within one through ten. But things have beens strange lately with good books low and bad books high.

Step 1 No more didio and no more asinine exclusive contracts which he started with morrison.

Increased in happening, yes. Started, hell no. I mean, Joe Q did start signing some in 2001.

I want superboy prime to punch didio in the face and a great big sigh of do-over for dc.

I'm starting to wonder why people like to talk about resorting to physical violence over comics. =p

[perk9600]

Well I predicted that Marvel would widen the gap due to the end of 52, but I didn't anticipate this type of ass whooping. That is about as much of a hammerlock as you can have.

The problem I see is that this doesn't appear to be a case where the Marvel books are selling more which is causing the gap. It is the fact that DC books are selling less. If it was the former everyone would be a winner (a rising tide lifts all boats if you will). In this case it is clearly DC that is losing sales. They need to address that soon.

[jmcl89]

The problem I see is that this doesn't appear to be a case where the Marvel books are selling more which is causing the gap. It is the fact that DC books are selling less. If it was the former everyone would be a winner (a rising tide lifts all boats if you will). In this case it is clearly DC that is losing sales. They need to address that soon.

Most of DC's monthly books seem to be doing okay, other than the bottom-feeding titles (of which there are always some, anyway) and the badly slumping Superman-Batman. But they need better performances from the event books - Amazons Attack really looks like a dud.

[Yaw]

For those saying Marvel is relying just on events, remember that DC isn't exactly doing anything different. Infinite Crisis had tons of Tie-ins, as did the concurrent Civil War over at Marvel. Both World War Hulk and Amazons Attack have Tie-Ins. Countdown is going to and already has tie-ins all across the board.

The only difference between the two is that Marvel's Events sell better.


This is truth right here.

The numbers are out.



AMAZONS ATTACK #2 (Of 6) 47,552

For a mini that has tie-ins with ongoing titles, it is doing poorly compared to Marvel events that increase sales of other books by at least 100%.

[thefourthman]

This is truth right here.

The numbers are out.



AMAZONS ATTACK #2 (Of 6) 47,552

For a mini that has tie-ins with ongoing titles, it is doing poorly compared to Marvel events that increase sales of other books by at least 100%.
Name one other book other then Captain America that had increases of 100%. (And support it with data.)

[leeisl]

Name one other book other then Captain America that had increases of 100%. (And support it with data.)

Thunderbolts:
Civil War-
05/06 Thunderbolts #102 - 23,741 ( -1.8%)
06/06 Thunderbolts #103 - 60,823 (+156.2%)
Inititive-
12/06 Thunderbolts #109 - 27,300 ( -2.1%)
01/07 Thunderbolts #110 - 73,557 (+169.4%)

Iron Man:
Civil War-
09/06 Iron Man #12 - 36,278 ( -2.7%)
11/06 Iron Man #13 - 76,800 (+111.7%)

She-Hulk:
Civil War-
05/06 She-Hulk #7 - 26,561 ( -0.3%)
05/06 She-Hulk #8 - 58,053 (+118.6%)
06/06 —

Cable & Deadpool:
Civil War-
06/06 Cable & Deadpool #29 - 25,368 ( -1.2%)
07/06 Cable & Deadpool #30 - 59,333 (+133.9%)

Blade:
Civil War-
12/06 Blade #4 - 21,043 ( -9.1%)
01/07 Blade #5 - 42,513 (+102.0%)

Source:http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog/2007/05/31/marvel-month-to-month-sales-april-2007/

[thefourthman]

Thunderbolts:
Civil War-
05/06 Thunderbolts #102 - 23,741 ( -1.8%)
06/06 Thunderbolts #103 - 60,823 (+156.2%)
Inititive-
12/06 Thunderbolts #109 - 27,300 ( -2.1%)
01/07 Thunderbolts #110 - 73,557 (+169.4%)

Iron Man:
Civil War-
09/06 Iron Man #12 - 36,278 ( -2.7%)
11/06 Iron Man #13 - 76,800 (+111.7%)

She-Hulk:
Civil War-
05/06 She-Hulk #7 - 26,561 ( -0.3%)
05/06 She-Hulk #8 - 58,053 (+118.6%)
06/06 —

Cable & Deadpool:
Civil War-
06/06 Cable & Deadpool #29 - 25,368 ( -1.2%)
07/06 Cable & Deadpool #30 - 59,333 (+133.9%)

Blade:
Civil War-
12/06 Blade #4 - 21,043 ( -9.1%)
01/07 Blade #5 - 42,513 (+102.0%)
Good job, is that a typo on the dates for Iron Man?

[leeisl]

Good job, is that a typo on the dates for Iron Man?

There wasn't an Iron Man issue last October, hence no entry for it.

[artiepants]

and, shockingly, many of the Marvel titles i'd classify as "good" have managed to hang on to significant boosts (25-50%) after their CW issues.

[Drink]

Numbers from icv2

http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/10766.html

Holy crap is Countdown bottoming out fast or what? Seeing it on the placements is one thing, but it dropped at least 12K in but two weeks.

[Bat-Mite]

Numbers from icv2

http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/10766.html

Holy crap is Countdown bottoming out fast or what? Seeing it on the placements is one thing, but it dropped at least 12K in but two weeks.

Yup...

and with the recent announcement of the "Countdown to Adventure" and "Countdown to mystery" and "Countdown to this and that" tie-ins you can be sure that it'll only get worse...

DC needs to wake the F. up soon...

[ME5]

Hello.

Wow. Even with ASB&R, 4 Countdown books, copies from 52, the Amazons Attack, and double shipped Titans, Action, and Green Lantern, DC was unable to stay close to Marvel? That is tough to see.

It is NICE to see that ASB&R, variants included, is slowly but surely dropping like the stone it is.

I AM concerned for DC that Countdown and Amazons Attack are starting out so much lower than I thought they would. These are 2 big DC events, and the numbers are underwhelming to say the least.

Damn, it looks like WWH is off to a pretty good start for Marvel. Since when did Hulk get so popular? I just can not believe how Joe and his stable of creators have managed to convince so many people to suddenly be interested in characters that have been relatively stagnant in recent years. I love that Hulk is now the center of attention in the Marvel U.

I wonder what a "responsible" retailer I know would have to say...:rolleyes: Lol.

Be Well...:)

[Toneloak]

and, shockingly, many of the Marvel titles i'd classify as "good" have managed to hang on to significant boosts (25-50%) after their CW issues.
I just hope the WWH boost for Ghost Rider (if it happens) will last like many of the rest.

Oh...&
All Star Batman & Robin The Boy Wonder Rules
Man, I was so worried about that book.