Superhero Religious Views?

[LoganVH]

I've read mostly about Superman and Batman, and from what I have gathered, Superman is more of an agnostic than anything. He stopped going to church in his teens, but in the last few Action Comics it's revealed that he does respect religion.

Batman, I feel is a complete atheist.

Your thoughts/derivations?

[Bijan S]

I would assume most would believe in some higher being seeing as how they are exposed to magic pretty frequently.

[JohnLynch]

I've read mostly about Superman and Batman, and from what I have gathered, Superman is more of an agnostic than anything. He stopped going to church in his teens, but in the last few Action Comics it's revealed that he does respect religion.

Batman, I feel is a complete atheist.

Your thoughts/derivations?IMO Superman simply cannot be Christian as Christianity has man above all other beings, and Superman isn't a man. He's an alien. Therefore he isn't equal to mankind, he's a lesser being under the Christian view. Any waffling on that point, IMO, is simply dishonest.

[Inactiveman]

IMO Superman simply cannot be Christian as Christianity has man above all other beings, and Superman isn't a man. He's an alien. Therefore he isn't equal to mankind, he's a lesser being under the Christian view. Any waffling on that point, IMO, is simply dishonest.

I don't think you quite understand Christianity...

Aliens are quite compatible with Christianity; in fact I once read a Vatican scientist (yes the Vatican does have a scientific research dept.) discuss on the possibility of Jesus appearing to alien civilizations and whether or not the concept of sin would even apply to aliens.

[JohnLynch]

I don't think you quite understand Christianity...

Aliens are quite compatible with Christianity; in fact I once read a Vatican scientist (yes the Vatican does have a scientific research dept.) discuss on the possibility of Jesus appearing to alien civilizations and whether or not the concept of sin would even apply to aliens.Man, and only man, are given souls in the Bible. Every other creature is simply an animal and therefore below man. IMO the bible (and therefore Christianity) also teaches that the Earth was created in 6 days and anything else is also waffling.

[MuteMath]

With the Spectre running around, Hal's interaction with it, Ollie's resurrection, and the existence of Zauriel, I'm sure a big chunk of the DCU's heroes (except for Mr. Terrific, of course) believe in some form of a deity along the lines of Christianity's god.

[Violator]

http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/comic_book_religion.html

Not that it's necessarily accurate, but it's interesting.

[Weiser_Cain]

I think writer should avoid the subject so as not to alienate the fans. Unless it an important part of the story, like hellblazer.

[Corr7]

i am betting Ollie believes in something, didn't he go to heaven in Quiver?

[Weiser_Cain]

You'd think comic heaven would give capes a free pass.

[Moonbeam]

Man, and only man, are given souls in the Bible. Every other creature is simply an animal and therefore below man. IMO the bible (and therefore Christianity) also teaches that the Earth was created in 6 days and anything else is also waffling.

Your church takes the Jewish holy scriptures at face value? Wild. But hey - whatever floats your boat.

I tend to agree that Superman wouldn't be comfortable with your view of Christianity, but who knows what he might think of another view that incorporated Christ's teachings but saw the Jewish scriptures as moral myths, similar to modern liberal Judaism.

[Starlord]

great, three in the morning, wide awake, and now I want waffles. :(

[frd reborn]

great, three in the morning, wide awake, and now I want waffles. :(
holy waffles?

[JohnLynch]

Your church takes the Jewish holy scriptures at face value? Wild. But hey - whatever floats your boat.Well, as I suspect you already realize, I'm not a Christian. I have, however, investigated christianity and I've found myself unwiling to consider a Christian religion as having any credibility that doesn't take some portions of the bible as literal (such as the length of time the Earth was created along with the fact only man has a soul), which has led me to be unable to believe in Christianity. Although I do still certainly respect anyone's right to believe whatever they want (whether its a non-literal christianity, fundamental christianity, buddhism, islam, wicca, etc), I do have opinions on those religions ;)

who knows what he might think of another view that incorporated Christ's teachings but saw the Jewish scriptures as moral myths, similar to modern liberal Judaism.Fair point, although I do wonder how many christian religions truly do say "oh yeah, man aint the only one with a soul" although you could say DCU Christianity is different.

[Weiser_Cain]

holy waffles?
then they and the wine would suck

[JoeZhang]

Superman can time-travel - he's seen Jesus was just some bronze-aged dude.

[Kebab Gud]

http://www.adherents.com/lit/comics/comic_book_religion.html

Not that it's necessarily accurate, but it's interesting.
i find it accurate (for the character i know)

i am betting Ollie believes in something, didn't he go to heaven in Quiver?
I dont belive Ollie is religious in any way.. hes not Atheist, agnostic, Christian .. he's not anything. even thou he's been dead, and met jesus once :P

[Sam Ridyard]

IMO the bible (and therefore Christianity) also teaches that the Earth was created in 6 days and anything else is also waffling.
Its good that that is just your opinion then, and not what most contemporary Christians believe.

The earth was created in 6 days, 6000 years ago; the earth was created over a billion years.
Who the hell cares?

If you are dismissing an entire religion over a phrase of scripture that has been acknowledged to be vague time and time again (disputed under the basis of the Hebrew word for "day" (yom) being interpreted to mean either; thousands or millions of years; or a 24-hour day) then you already decided what you were going to think in the first place.

Why bother "investigating" a particular religion, when you are going to dismiss it out of hand anyway?

But seriously, do you believe that other beings have souls?
Does your dog have a soul? (Not baiting just bemused as to whether or not you believe that.)

[JohnLynch]

If you are dismissing an entire religion over a phrase of scriptureActually that phrase I managed to gloss over. IMO the bible does say that it was created in six days, but I ignored that as I investigated it.

But seriously, do you believe that other beings have souls?
Does your dog have a soul? (Not baiting just bemused as to whether or not you believe that.)A) I don't believe in souls, however B) when I was investigating Christianity I was willing to take some things for granted, such as the existence of a god and souls. However when I came across the fact that only humans have souls, I had to reject. IMO if souls do exist, we aren't the only hominid to have souls. IMO some apes have the capacity to be at least as intelligent as a semi-mentally challenged human (i.e. retarded, but I'm trying to be non-offensive) and the tools to have apes reach this potential simply hasn't been applied correctly or long enough, however I do think we currently have those tools (all research on teaching apes language and other things has been incredibly biased either for or against, however there are definitely promising signs). Therefore I believe they must have souls as well. I would most definitely believe aliens like Superman have souls.

Having said all that, your post suggests that its granted only humans have souls by mainstream Christianity (or at least your Christianity if you're Christian). If so that would back up my contention that Superman couldn't be a christian.

[Sam Ridyard]

However when I came across the fact that only humans have souls, I had to reject. IMO if souls do exist, we aren't the only hominid to have souls. IMO some apes have the capacity to be at least as intelligent as a semi-mentally challenged human (i.e. retarded, but I'm trying to be non-offensive) and the tools to have apes reach this potential simply hasn't been applied correctly or long enough, however I do think we currently have those tools (all research on teaching apes language and other things has been incredibly biased either for or against, however there are definitely promising signs). Therefore I believe they must have souls as well. I would most definitely believe aliens like Superman have souls.

Having said all that, your post suggests that its granted only humans have souls by mainstream Christianity (or at least your Christianity if you're Christian). If so that would back up my contention that Superman couldn't be a christian.
Out of curiosity, when you were investigating Christianity, what were you investigating?
Were you reading through the bible? Or things written by people about the Bible?

Can you tell me where the passage of scripture is that says that all other beings do not have souls? Cos as far as I'm aware, the Bible makes no specification about that fact.
I personally do not believe they have souls, and Ill go into why, if you wish, but its not because of pointed direction by the bible.

It does say in Genesis that G-d has given us dominion over all other creatures; But us being effectively the most powerful creatures on the planet, that really does go without saying.

[JohnLynch]

Out of curiosity, when you were investigating Christianity, what were you investigating?
Were you reading through the bible? Or things written by people about the Bible?I read both although this was quite a few years back now (3 - 5 at a guess, but I can't really remember now) so I can't remember any specifics.

Can you tell me where the passage of scripture is that says that all other beings do not have souls? Cos as far as I'm aware, the Bible makes no specification about that fact.
I personally do not believe they have souls, and Ill go into why, if you wish, but its not because of pointed direction by the bible.Huh, perhaps I misremember it then, I thought it was the bible but it may have been something related to it, although I could have sworn it said so in the bible. But then my memory is pretty faulty ;) Learn something new every day anyway :)

[mattyhare]

With the Spectre running around, Hal's interaction with it, Ollie's resurrection, and the existence of Zauriel, I'm sure a big chunk of the DCU's heroes (except for Mr. Terrific, of course) believe in some form of a deity along the lines of Christianity's god.


Forgive me if I appear ignorant, but does Mr Terrific have some sort of famous stance on religion? I'm not really a major DC fan, but I browse....

And incidentally, given The Spectre is a JSA member, or has been, or will be or whatever that whole crazy continuity thing is saying at the moment, (and the reasons noted by MuteMath, and a LOAD of others that I can't be bothered going into) isnt it ridiculous that any DC hero doesn't believe in a broadly Christian God?

And where do the new gods fit in? Are they just not gods but call themselves so? This is one of those issues that teribly confusing, and I guess it'll probably always be that way, becuase sorting it out would just create problems.

[JAGII]

IMO Superman simply cannot be Christian as Christianity has man above all other beings, and Superman isn't a man. He's an alien. Therefore he isn't equal to mankind, he's a lesser being under the Christian view. Any waffling on that point, IMO, is simply dishonest.

There have been plenty of Christians that would disagree with your conclusion. In fact, C.S. Lewis's Space Trilogy suggested that each planet and alien civilization had their own Christ. This was the incarnation of the same God the Father that Christians worship, just the God the Son takes a different form. Doug TenNapel borrowed this idea in CreatureTech.

Of course, he may have meant this allegorically, but I what I know about Lewis leads me to believe he wouldn't be outright opposed to the idea of aliens. Skeptical at best.

In response to the Original Post: I think most of the analytical heroes consider any supernatural phenomenon a science that we don't understand yet. But for the most part, most characters don't have a definite, prescribed religion. I remember reading an old O'Neil Batman story where Batman was almost wistful towards Christianity, and others where he dismisses it outright. And Hal Jordan spent quite a bit of time working for God, but we haven't seen it addressed in his own book. Wasn't Nightwing an overt Christian for a while in his own book?

Personally, I love reading about religion and spirituality, so I would like to see it explored a bit more in comics. At the same time, unless the character's religion is central to that character's personality (like Flamebird or Nightcrawler over at Marvel), then I don't have any problem with their beliefs shifting from story to story.

[Nathan Scott]

Robin was definitely christian in the old Batman TV show.

[Sam Ridyard]

I read both although this was quite a few years back now (3 - 5 at a guess, but I can't really remember now) so I can't remember any specifics.

Huh, perhaps I misremember it then, I thought it was the bible but it may have been something related to it, although I could have sworn it said so in the bible. But then my memory is pretty faulty ;) Learn something new every day anyway :)
I dont actually know myself whether or not it says so in the bible.
I was just asking myself if you knew where that conclusion came from, cos I'd like to read it myself.

[nolanjwerner]

I don't think you quite understand Christianity...

Aliens are quite compatible with Christianity; in fact I once read a Vatican scientist (yes the Vatican does have a scientific research dept.) discuss on the possibility of Jesus appearing to alien civilizations and whether or not the concept of sin would even apply to aliens.

Um...

Yeah, thats total BS.

The Young Earth Creationist (which seems to be not only the most common but the most literal reading of things, even though it technically waffles in areas about geocentrism v. heliocentrism and a flat as opposed to a round earth) view would be essentially destroyed by the existence of aliens, especially if they were able to document their history longer then 6,000 years (which is a very real possibility).

This would call for AT LEAST acceptance of multiple creations. And that would say that the human creation was not a unique act. This would also create significant theological issues.

And one of the main tenets of Christianity is that only humans have souls (keep in mind that there was actually quite a substantial debate in the 1500s regarding whether the native peoples in the New World had souls). I'm not going to say that it destroys the religion but it certainly puts it in a position where the theology would have to adapt significantly to the new realities. I don't know what direction things would go. I get the feeling that Western Christianity ends up being more syncretic in the vein of African Christianity or just more of a metaphor in general.

The Vatican Science Department? That gave me a chuckle.
Although i get the feeling if I ever need research done in the area of buggery and/or the psychology of covering things up, they would be one of the best places to go.

[David Bird]

Putting aside JohnLynch's objections, and the idea that a few decades of Bible Belt Creationism trumps two thousands years of theological discussion (fundamentalism is only about a century old), the fact is that this concept cannot mean the same for the characters of the DCU as they do for us. The gods of the DCU aren't a matter of faith. Superheroes interact -- and even team up -- with them as a part of their day-to-day actions. In such a universe, the rationalist argument that you can't believe in something that can't be proven must mean something else.

[Inactiveman]

Yeah, thats total BS.

The Young Earth Creationist (which seems to be not only the most common but the most literal reading of things,

I was speaking of Catholicism which is neither creationist nor does it take a literal reading of the Bible. You need to read up on the different forms of Christianity. creationism isn't the most common, Catholicism is; over 2 billion people.

This would call for AT LEAST acceptance of multiple creations. And that would say that the human creation was not a unique act. This would also create significant theological issues.

Not really. Why would it be so hard to accept that God created other worlds and creatures? The Bible does speak of non-Earthly beings.


And one of the main tenets of Christianity is that only humans have souls

That's debatable. Most would argue that that the main tenet is love and forgiveness.

In either way, the Bible doesn't say that humans are the only beings to have souls; however they are the only creatures ON EARTH to have souls (which is tied into the concept of freewill). In fact, the reason why some angels rebelled was because they were upset and jealous that God gave humans a soul and make them "like unto angels".

(keep in mind that there was actually quite a substantial debate in the 1500s regarding whether the native peoples in the New World had souls).

Yes, that's reasonable actually.. When Europeans came to the New World many were shocked to see humans living practically like animals (read Charles Darwin's journals for an idea of what it was like).

Animals are considered not to have freewill which is defined by knowing the difference between right and wrong and being able to choose between them. So the question was if these New World people who lived like animals knew the difference between right and wrong. If they did then that meant they had freewill, and if they had freewill then they had a soul.

Keep in mind that "not having a soul" isn't a bad thing. By not having a soul and freewill a creature is considered to be innocent and without sin.


The Vatican Science Department? That gave me a chuckle.

The Vatican is a country/state, should it be surprising that a country/state has its own research department? Read up on it yourself; Wired April 2003 had an article on it.

[Porcupine]

I am a former catholic as I disagree with a lot of their views. The Bible is, was, and always should be taken literally. Do people actually believe God and Jesus would make up stories for the heck of it? Now as for souls. There is mention in the Bible about animals in heaven. I don't remember the passage of hand and as always it is hard to interpret parts of the Bible. Why wouldn't there be. If God wants animals in heaven then there very well could be. The whole God concept is that anything is possible with him. I left the catholic church because they don't acknowledge end times as written in the Book of Revelation according to Jesus. I'm told by high up catholics it is not literal. When I ask what is it? No answer. Besides the Pope in past times changed the sabbath from saturday the 7th day to sunday the 1st day. On who's authority? Certainly not God's as his 10 commandments have been the same since Moses brought them down from the mountain. As for aliens. I've had people tell me they are the fallen angels that God threw out of Heaven along with satan. It all depends on what you believe. Again with God if you believe, then anything is possible.

[Corr7]

This thread seemed to have change from its original purpose

[JAGII]

I am a former catholic as I disagree with a lot of their views. The Bible is, was, and always should be taken literally. Do people actually believe God and Jesus would make up stories for the heck of it? Now as for souls. There is mention in the Bible about animals in heaven. I don't remember the passage of hand and as always it is hard to interpret parts of the Bible. Why wouldn't there be. If God wants animals in heaven then there very well could be. The whole God concept is that anything is possible with him. I left the catholic church because they don't acknowledge end times as written in the Book of Revelation according to Jesus. I'm told by high up catholics it is not literal. When I ask what is it? No answer. Besides the Pope in past times changed the sabbath from saturday the 7th day to sunday the 1st day. On who's authority? Certainly not God's as his 10 commandments have been the same since Moses brought them down from the mountain. As for aliens. I've had people tell me they are the fallen angels that God threw out of Heaven along with satan. It all depends on what you believe. Again with God if you believe, then anything is possible.

I am an angry protestant, so please don't take this as a blind defense of Catholicism, but there are actually a lot of answers for the difficulties you're listing.

1) If Revelations is not literal, then it could be any number of things (and I should say, in the interest of full disclosure, that I don't believe it is literal either). One of the more common beliefs is that it was a letter of encouragement written to Christians who were suffering under Nero. While most literalists would agree with this, because of the prefaces that begin the book, many Bible scholars can draw similarities between John's Revelation and several other similar letters. In other words, the book was a coded manifesto against the current emperor, written in the style of a then-common genre.

This is just one of many theories, but if you truly want an answer to your question, then it shouldn't be to hard to find one.

2) The Pope moved the Sabbath one who's authority? Well, Christ's authority, to be frank. One of the central tenants of Catholicism is that when Christ reinstated Peter (after his resurrection and before the Assencion), he made Peter his voice on Earth. When the Pope makes a decree, he does so through the leading of the Holy Spirit and through his position as head of the Universal Church. According to Catholic dogma, then, if the Pope says the Sabbath should be Saturday or Sunday or Tuesday, he does so through both the leading and the authority of Christ.

3) This goes to your first statement, but there are a lot of Christains (myself included) who believe the Bible is an alegory. Maybe not completely allegorical, but not completely literal either. Obviously there are those who consider certain parts to be literal and those who consider the same parts to be allegorical, but the point is that when you make a hard and fast statement like that, you aren't speaking for all Christains.

I appreciate and certainly respect your beliefs, but you may want to be careful proclaiming something as a central tenant when there is, in fact, quite a bit of disagreement on the subject.

[aussiestor]

As for this thing about souls, if you look in the Bible you see that animals are souls. In the Hebrew the word translated soul is nephesh meaning breath or anything that breathes in Genesis 2:7 it says “And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” So man is a living soul and so are animals.

[Ember]

Someone once asked Billy Graham how the souls of beings on other worlds could be saved if they didn't know about Christ. IIRC, he replied that if there was intelligent life on other planets, he was sure God had made arrangements for their salvation.

I doubt the authors of the Bible gave much thought one way or another to the question of the existence, let alone the salvation, of space aliens. As I understand it, other-worldly beings were seen as part of an Earth-centric cosmology that put Heaven at the outermost sphere and Hell at the innermost. IOW, the only place lower than Earth was Hell; so much for humankind's "exalted place" in the scheme of things. :)

I've never actually read this, but considering the Trickster's birth name (Giovanni Giuseppe) and background (circus family) I wouldn't be surprised if he'd at least been baptized Roman Catholic. After his encounters with Neron, I can't see him--or any of Neron's dupes--as atheist.

[Kareeeeem]

I think writer should avoid the subject so as not to alienate the fans. Unless it an important part of the story, like hellblazer.
i agree, but i would like to see some characters who happen to be religious and be presented in a good light. not that their religion plays any major role but just as background info. that would be nice instead of the stereotype intollerant, bigoted religious guy.

and people need to realise that argueing about religion on a message board just doesn't work. state your views and let it go really. its unlikely anyone will change their minds ause of someone on a message board.

[Dalarsco]

Man, and only man, are given souls in the Bible. Every other creature is simply an animal and therefore below man. IMO the bible (and therefore Christianity) also teaches that the Earth was created in 6 days and anything else is also waffling.
So are you a fundamentalist or an athiest? Either way you lack the ability to view shades of grey. God knew we couldn't understand the literal way the universe was created, so when people asked he used a less complex metaphoric idea. Aliens didn't come into it because we weren't ready to know. Unless the being we know as God is separate from whatever unknown force started the big bang, in which case he himself is an alien and didn't want to reveal the truth about his existence anyway. It is overly simplistic to adhere to ancient words in every literal way. The core of the Bible is to treat people with respect and caring, same with all religions. Anything else is unimportant and added by man.

[Shadowarrow]

This conversation can only get uglier as time goes on, I've been on many boards on imdb debating religion.

With both Superman and Batman, they tend to leave religion out of it, probably to avoid discussions like these. Sure you can have Daredevil as a catholic, but Supes and Bats are very iconic characters and one of their appeals is that they can appeal to anyone. Bats has really lost his faith anyways, whatever it was.

Ollie may believe in something now after being dead but Hal never said they were in heaven, "an aspect of it" yes. He could have been in heaven but he also could have been in Allusion Fields (spelling? the Greek myth of where good people go when they die). Connor is buddist (yay my peeps), Mr. Terrific athetist, it really doesnt matter.

[Ember]

Ollie may believe in something now after being dead but Hal never said they were in heaven, "an aspect of it" yes. He could have been in heaven but he also could have been in Allusion Fields (spelling? the Greek myth of where good people go when they die). Connor is buddist (yay my peeps), Mr. Terrific athetist, it really doesnt matter.
Elysian Fields.

I think it's very unfair that Mr. Terrific's atheism is accepted as an intelligent POV, while Dr. Thirteen's skepticism is taken as a sign of pigheadedness.

[David Bird]

This thread seemed to have change from its original purpose

It certainly has.

[David Bird]

I am a former catholic as I disagree with a lot of their views. The Bible is, was, and always should be taken literally. Do people actually believe God and Jesus would make up stories for the heck of it? Now as for souls. There is mention in the Bible about animals in heaven. I don't remember the passage of hand and as always it is hard to interpret parts of the Bible. Why wouldn't there be. If God wants animals in heaven then there very well could be. The whole God concept is that anything is possible with him. I left the catholic church because they don't acknowledge end times as written in the Book of Revelation according to Jesus. I'm told by high up catholics it is not literal. When I ask what is it? No answer. Besides the Pope in past times changed the sabbath from saturday the 7th day to sunday the 1st day. On who's authority? Certainly not God's as his 10 commandments have been the same since Moses brought them down from the mountain. As for aliens. I've had people tell me they are the fallen angels that God threw out of Heaven along with satan. It all depends on what you believe. Again with God if you believe, then anything is possible.

I don't know how you interpret the Book of Revelation, your 'literal' interpretation will reflect whatever church you're going to, but the typical interpretation of the Catholic church is called Symbolic and it predates the Catholic church by some time. I'm not going to get into all right now, but I did a series of blog entries on the subject of dispensationalism (http://david-bird.blogspot.com/2006/12/dispensationalism.html), including one on methods of interpretation (http://david-bird.blogspot.com/2006/12/methods-of-interpretation.html).

Honouring the Lord's Day, instead of the Sabbath, also predates Catholicism and has backing in the New Testament itself. Paul told the Colossians:

Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days.
Colossians 2:16

The truth is the 'literal' interpretations vary considerably from one church to another. If it were a simple matter of reading what it says, that wouldn't be the case. All those who interpret literally would agree.

[Mundungus]

I think if I was a superhero and I got to see all the things that they've seen and done and the places they've been I'd have a hard time sitting down in church and putting my full faith into something that seems so mediocre compared to hanging out with the New Gods or Galactus.

[greenman]

I think writer should avoid the subject so as not to alienate the fans. Unless it an important part of the story, like hellblazer.
Just throwing in a random "me too". And this is coming from a Daredevil fan.

[SMARTASS8]

I've read mostly about Superman and Batman, and from what I have gathered, Superman is more of an agnostic than anything. He stopped going to church in his teens, but in the last few Action Comics it's revealed that he does respect religion.

Batman, I feel is a complete atheist.

Your thoughts/derivations?

Superman still lives his life the way his adoptive parents taught him to, so I believe he's still whatever religion that is (being from the rural midwest, is probably some form of Christianity;whether he still goes to church is another thing).

Batman seems to have that guilt thing going on that Jews and Catholics are usually said to have. Even though his creator is Jewish, I'd say he's probably Catholic if anything.

[achilles140]

Let's see this from the heroes point of view. Superman is always saying "Rao", so he might well be a worshiper of the Kryptonian gods. Supergirl and Power Girl were raised in a Kryptonian lifestyle, so they would certainly be worshipers of the Kryptonian gods. Wonder Woman would obviously worship the Greek gods, as would Donna, Wonder Girl and all the other Amazons. Ragman is Jewish. The Spectre is a Judeo/Christian sort. Etrigan is a demon, so he obviously a religious sort. Then there are the New Gods....

[Pcm979]

Even if Batman did believe in God, he wouldn't worship the guy; He probably has contingency plans in case all that power goes to God's head. :p

[SMARTASS8]

Man, and only man, are given souls in the Bible. Every other creature is simply an animal and therefore below man. IMO the bible (and therefore Christianity) also teaches that the Earth was created in 6 days and anything else is also waffling.

You're either an Evangelical, or you're getting your Christian info from one. Just because Evangelicals, and lately the media, refer to themselves as "Christians", that doesn't mean all Christians are as literal in their interpretations of the Bible as "Born Agains" are. Many Christians consider the Bible as allegorical and don't feel evolution and creationism as being mutually exclusive.

[SMARTASS8]

Robin was definitely christian in the old Batman TV show.

LOL!!!!!:D

[SMARTASS8]

I am a former catholic as I disagree with a lot of their views. The Bible is, was, and always should be taken literally. Do people actually believe God and Jesus would make up stories for the heck of it? Now as for souls. There is mention in the Bible about animals in heaven. I don't remember the passage of hand and as always it is hard to interpret parts of the Bible. Why wouldn't there be. If God wants animals in heaven then there very well could be. The whole God concept is that anything is possible with him. I left the catholic church because they don't acknowledge end times as written in the Book of Revelation according to Jesus. I'm told by high up catholics it is not literal. When I ask what is it? No answer. Besides the Pope in past times changed the sabbath from saturday the 7th day to sunday the 1st day. On who's authority? Certainly not God's as his 10 commandments have been the same since Moses brought them down from the mountain. As for aliens. I've had people tell me they are the fallen angels that God threw out of Heaven along with satan. It all depends on what you believe. Again with God if you believe, then anything is possible.

It's funny;when my parents went to school, Catholicism and the nuns who taught it were the epitome of strict. Now with the emergence of Evangelicals, you left the Catholic Church because it wasn't strict enough with its teachings.

[Weiser_Cain]

NUns in my school were pretty strict, I'm an atheist.

[David Bird]

You're either an Evangelical, or you're getting your Christian info from one. Just because Evangelicals, and lately the media, refer to themselves as "Christians", that doesn't mean all Christians are as literal in their interpretations of the Bible as "Born Agains" are. Many Christians consider the Bible as allegorical and don't feel evolution and creationism as being mutually exclusive.

I got the opinion he might be a former Evangelical, who still believes their views represent true Christianity, or that Evangelicals represent some form of straw man to him. I don't know. Perhaps he could clarify it himself.

[Porcupine]

I am an angry protestant, so please don't take this as a blind defense of Catholicism, but there are actually a lot of answers for the difficulties you're listing.

1) If Revelations is not literal, then it could be any number of things (and I should say, in the interest of full disclosure, that I don't believe it is literal either). One of the more common beliefs is that it was a letter of encouragement written to Christians who were suffering under Nero. While most literalists would agree with this, because of the prefaces that begin the book, many Bible scholars can draw similarities between John's Revelation and several other similar letters. In other words, the book was a coded manifesto against the current emperor, written in the style of a then-common genre.

This is just one of many theories, but if you truly want an answer to your question, then it shouldn't be to hard to find one.

2) The Pope moved the Sabbath one who's authority? Well, Christ's authority, to be frank. One of the central tenants of Catholicism is that when Christ reinstated Peter (after his resurrection and before the Assencion), he made Peter his voice on Earth. When the Pope makes a decree, he does so through the leading of the Holy Spirit and through his position as head of the Universal Church. According to Catholic dogma, then, if the Pope says the Sabbath should be Saturday or Sunday or Tuesday, he does so through both the leading and the authority of Christ.

3) This goes to your first statement, but there are a lot of Christains (myself included) who believe the Bible is an alegory. Maybe not completely allegorical, but not completely literal either. Obviously there are those who consider certain parts to be literal and those who consider the same parts to be allegorical, but the point is that when you make a hard and fast statement like that, you aren't speaking for all Christains.

I appreciate and certainly respect your beliefs, but you may want to be careful proclaiming something as a central tenant when there is, in fact, quite a bit of disagreement on the subject.

I didn't proclaim anything other than it's all what you believe. Read my post again. I will say that Jesus in the Book of Revelation calls the catholic church the pagan church and the protestant church the dead church. Pagan as in made up parts or rituals that stem from ancient babylonia who started paganism. Dead as in government controlled church as in England instead of faith as religion is suppossed to be. May I remind you of the Irish catholics and the Irish protestants. That's why I ditched catholocism for just plain old Christianity. There are seven churches of Jesus Christ in the Book of Revelation and I think he speaks of them literally through John who was taken to heaven to write it. Is that allegorical??? Again my interpretation. As for being carful???? My beliefs are my beliefs. I go by the free will that God blessed me with and the constitution of free speech that is suppossed to be provided for me with the constitution of the United States of America. Are you saying that I can't speak my beliefs??? As for Revelation? It predicts certain things prior to end times like maybe what is happening to todays world like wars (everywhere), natural disasters (a severe increase in weather patterns compared to history), famine (Africa), pestulance (Aids, viruses, Doctors struggling to find cures, etc..). I'm not one to rationalize every reason why it isn't happening like some people do. I even see people in America trying to banish the Christmas tree which has nothing to do with Christianity other than paganism. I just sit back and take it all in and think that maybe it is all true and could be happening as I write this. "The budding of a fig tree will usher in the last generation of mankind". That's from the Book of revelation. That means when Israel becomes a nation again. 1948 Israel became a nation again. If that's true then the question is what does the Bible consider a generation??? That's what Jesus told John to write down and give to mankind. I'm certainly not going to question the Son of God. Again my belief, and my free will and costitutional right. Right, wrong, or indifferant.

[Michael Hawk]

Batman's a part of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

[JAGII]

Are you saying that I can't speak my beliefs???

No, I wasn't saying that at all.

I took your statement to be blanket proclamation stating what all (or most) Christians believe, not simply your individual belief. If you were only talking about yourself, then I must have misread.

I apologize for the misunderstanding.

[vbartilucci]

Do people actually believe God and Jesus would make up stories for the heck of it?
Constantly. They are called parables, and Jesus was quite famous for them.

Parable of Good Samaritan = People who are not like you can be very nice, and you should not judge people by their tribe, or skin color, etc.

"Parable" of creation = God created everything. The details and methods are up for discussion and discovery.

I went to a Marianist high school, and was taught both bible study and a solid brace of science. And I have no problem holding two wildly disparate throughts in my head.

There was no one there at the creation. There is no first-person account. Therefore, it is an second-hand story. Even if God told the story to Man personally, it was interpreted.

"'Superluminal energy discharge?' Do you mind if I just make that 'Let there be light'?"

Now as for souls.

If you take "Human" to mean "Sentient / Sapient", it becomes easier to accept the ideas of aliens being equal to man, from a theological standpoint.

My rule of thumb is, if a being (or a representative of said being's species) can ask me clearly and distinctly not to eat it, I won't. So baby-eating is not permitted, just because the particular baby in your hand can't talk. (And that oughta summon McKeever to the thread...)
To summarize: anything stupider than me is food.:D

Besides the Pope in past times changed the sabbath from saturday the 7th day to sunday the 1st day. On (whose) who's authority? Certainly not God's as his 10 commandments have been the same since Moses brought them down from the mountain.

The Pope didn't change the day of the sabbath, he changed the starting point of the count to arrive at the end point he wanted. He decided that day 1 was Monday, so day 7 became Sunday. I believe it's known as the "one-potato-two-potato" rule.


As for aliens. I've had people tell me they are the fallen angels that God threw out of Heaven along with satan. It all depends on what you believe. Again with God if you believe, then anything is possible.

..okay, I gotta laugh and point at that one. I don't know of ANY (rational, for lack of a better term) religion that includes aliens in the teachings. And I'm speaking as a minister of one that does.

[David Bird]

I didn't proclaim anything other than it's all what you believe...

No one is saying you can't speak you beliefs, but you say your beliefs are exactly what the Bible says and thats something you're making no attempt to prove.

"The budding of a fig tree will usher in the last generation of mankind". That's from the Book of revelation.

No it isn't. You're thinking of a passage in Matthew and if you are reading that passage literally, then the generation Jesus is refering to are the people in front of him.

[SMARTASS8]

..okay, I gotta laugh and point at that one. I don't know of ANY (rational, for lack of a better term) religion that includes aliens in the teachings. And I'm speaking as a minister of one that does.

Are you talking about Scientology? If you are, I'm surprised you're making light of it. Tom Cruise is going to be maaaad!

[vbartilucci]

Are you talking about Scientology? If you are, I'm surprised you're making light of it. Tom Cruise is going to be maaaad!
HELL no, I'm a member of a REAL, industrial-strength church, The Church of the Sub-Genius.

Salvation or double your money back!

[Zabardast]

there should be a don't ask, don't tell policy

[Porcupine]

No one is saying you can't speak you beliefs, but you say your beliefs are exactly what the Bible says and thats something you're making no attempt to prove.



No it isn't. You're thinking of a passage in Matthew and if you are reading that passage literally, then the generation Jesus is refering to are the people in front of him.

I'll find it and post it. I have two versions of King James old and new. The old I'll admit I have a lot of trouble understanding all that old english, and the new re-wriiten clearer. Anyways I'm just saying those are my beliefs. I know there are a ton of interpretations of the scriptures. Look at all the differing opinions of all the major factions of Christianity. Also I'm not evangelical either. I'm just plain non denominational. I'm keeping it simple as I see lots of controversy picking sides. Anyways no offense meant. I know it's a comic book thread that veers off topic in both Marvel and DC forums. Both companies keep a low religious profile because of all the controversy aand it's probably a good idea. If Batman said he was going to be a priest I could see the fans flipping out.

[JMarsh642]

No one is saying you can't speak you beliefs, but you say your beliefs are exactly what the Bible says and thats something you're making no attempt to prove.



No it isn't. You're thinking of a passage in Matthew and if you are reading that passage literally, then the generation Jesus is refering to are the people in front of him.

Mathew 24:32-34

" 32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This ageneration shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. "

[Nathan Scott]

Let's see this from the heroes point of view. Superman is always saying "Rao", so he might well be a worshiper of the Kryptonian gods. .

Lots of Jewish people use "Jesus Christ" as an exclamation.

[vbartilucci]

Let's see this from the heroes point of view. Superman is always saying "Rao", so he might well be a worshiper of the Kryptonian gods. .

Does that mean Gomer Pyle worships Solomon, Hercules, Atlas, etc?

[SMARTASS8]

Lots of Jewish people use "Jesus Christ" as an exclamation.

Maybe Silver Age Superman, where he could speak and write in Kryptonese(sp?) worshipped the gods of Krypton, but modern Superman, or at least pre-IC Superman, didn't seem to have as much knowledge of his home world. He didn't even have a zoo featuring Krypton animals like he used to.

[JohnLynch]

You're thinking of a passage in Matthew and if you are reading that passage literally, then the generation Jesus is refering to are the people in front of him.It was believed in those times that the end of the world would be within their lifetime, which I believe is where the ban on children came from. It was only after they worked out, the end of the world might not be straight away that the ban was lifted to simply be a discouragement. If I remember my history rightly.

[JoeZhang]

Maybe Silver Age Superman, where he could speak and write in Kryptonese(sp?) worshipped the gods of Krypton, but modern Superman, or at least pre-IC Superman, didn't seem to have as much knowledge of his home world. He didn't even have a zoo featuring Krypton animals like he used to.


He still has the zoo but he keeps quiet about it because otherwise he has PETA outside with signs saying "The multi-headed zargbeast of floxa-6 should roam free!"

[achilles140]

Maybe Silver Age Superman, where he could speak and write in Kryptonese(sp?) worshipped the gods of Krypton, but modern Superman, or at least pre-IC Superman, didn't seem to have as much knowledge of his home world. He didn't even have a zoo featuring Krypton animals like he used to.

He seems to still be able to speak and read Kryptonian, and to know something of Kryptonian history, enough to recognize Zod in any event. And yes, Gomer does worship all those guys....;)

[David Bird]

It was believed in those times that the end of the world would be within their lifetime, which I believe is where the ban on children came from. It was only after they worked out, the end of the world might not be straight away that the ban was lifted to simply be a discouragement. If I remember my history rightly.

Ban on children? There wasn't a ban on children.

[JohnLynch]

Ban on children? There wasn't a ban on children.I'm pretty sure there was, or at least a strong discouragement of them. My history tends to be better then my religious learning ;)

[EDIT]: A google search returns nothing, I'm positive it was, but I'll concede the point and reraise it if I ever find information confirming my memory.

[Shadowarrow]

Batman's a part of the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Ramen Brother! Follow the 9 "I really wish you rather didn'ts" and we will be brought back to the time of Beer Volcanos, Stripper factories and the midgit! I wish to be touched by the Flying Spagetti Monster's noodley appendage!:D

[SMARTASS8]

He still has the zoo but he keeps quiet about it because otherwise he has PETA outside with signs saying "The multi-headed zargbeast of floxa-6 should roam free!"

From the Showcase Superman stories I read, the cages he had were quite restrictive for those poor endangered animals. Another in the long list of reasons why Superman is a dick.

[SMARTASS8]

He seems to still be able to speak and read Kryptonian, and to know something of Kryptonian history, enough to recognize Zod in any event. And yes, Gomer does worship all those guys....;)

Okay I'm wrong!:p It still seems weird to worship gods he wasn't raised to worship that he, and maybe Supergirl, are the only ones left alive that know who they are.

[Inactiveman]

Ban on children? There wasn't a ban on children.

There was some Christian off-shoot in the 19th century that didn't believe in having children; naturally the movement died off.

I believe they were related to Quakers theologically. If I'm not mistaken they were nick-named the "Shakers" which is the where the term Shaker furniture comes from.

Antique Shaker furniture is of high value because nobody makes them anymore. The craft died along with the religious movement.

[Inactiveman]

In the Death of Superman when he was in the afterlife it took on a Kryptonian religious theme.

[JAGII]

There was some Christian off-shoot in the 19th century that didn't believe in having children; naturally the movement died off.

I don't know if its because I'm watching Arrested Development while reading this, I can completely hear Ron Howard reading this line.

And then I giggle to myself for 5 minutes.

[SMARTASS8]

In the Death of Superman when he was in the afterlife it took on a Kryptonian religious theme.

That doen't count anymore, Superboy punched a wall!;)

[David Bird]

There was some Christian off-shoot in the 19th century that didn't believe in having children; naturally the movement died off.

I believe they were related to Quakers theologically. If I'm not mistaken they were nick-named the "Shakers" which is the where the term Shaker furniture comes from.

Antique Shaker furniture is of high value because nobody makes them anymore. The craft died along with the religious movement.

Thats a lot later than when we were talking -- at least as I understood it -- and you're probably thinking of the Shakers. I don't know if they banned kids, but their men and women lived separately, which certainly didn't help their numbers grow. They did die out.

[achilles140]

Thinking about it, wouldn't the Kryptonians on Earth be sun worshipers? The sun is literally everything to them, the source of their power and life, and can even save their lives when they're badly hurt. Especially if the Neil Gaiman view about suns holds true for the mainstream DCU, (which it might, since it DOES get mention in a Gaiman story where the mainstream DCU is clearly involved, and both Rao and Sol appear as characters.

[NeoSamurai]

Man, and only man, are given souls in the Bible. Every other creature is simply an animal and therefore below man. IMO the bible (and therefore Christianity) also teaches that the Earth was created in 6 days and anything else is also waffling.

let's have quotes on who has souls and how long 6 days is to back up your claims.

editted: NM dogpiled on already.

[hippyhunter]

I hate it when people say that Batman is an athiest. The man has encountered the Spectre, the Spirit of Vengeance of the Christian god. Worked with the champion of the Greek Gods. Hawkman and Black Adam are involved with the Egyptian gods. Batman beleives in the fact that there are gods, he just most likely doesn't WORSHIP a deity. Big difference.

Superman is a Christian, but he isn't a church goer.

Wonder Woman, Troia, and Wonder Girl obviously worship the Greek gods. So does Aquaman (primarily Poseidon). I imagine that Supergirl does too due to her time with the Amazons.

Wally West is a Christian. Went to church shortly after the twins were born.

Hal Jordan is a Christian considering that he was an agent of the Christian god when he was the Spectre.

Green Arrow beleives in God since he's been to Heaven literally.

Mr. Terrific is only an athiest because he's a stubborn crybaby over his dead wife. A man of his knowledge should know that there are gods out there, he just refuses to acknowledge it because it goes against his views.

[Inactiveman]

Hal Jordan is a Christian considering that he was an agent of the Christian god when he was the Spectre.

Does the Specter really represent Christianity?

I think he'd be more representative of Judaism more Old Testament than New Testament ( especially since he was creators were Jewish).

I mean, what better describes the spirit of vengeance, the Old testament saying "An eye for an eye", or the New Testament message of forgiveness?

[Porcupine]

No one is saying you can't speak you beliefs, but you say your beliefs are exactly what the Bible says and thats something you're making no attempt to prove.



No it isn't. You're thinking of a passage in Matthew and if you are reading that passage literally, then the generation Jesus is refering to are the people in front of him.

You're right. I read it today during jury duty. He was not necessarily refering to any generation. He was probably talking about the generation upon his return. That could very well be our generation. 1/3 of people, trees, seas, etc. being destroyed could easily happen today (a nuclear war could do it in minutes). As for proving? Man shall not no the hour or day upon his return. How can anyone prove when that's going to happen after he says no one knows. It's more like just be ready when it happens.

[Porcupine]

Constantly. They are called parables, and Jesus was quite famous for them.

Parable of Good Samaritan = People who are not like you can be very nice, and you should not judge people by their tribe, or skin color, etc.

"Parable" of creation = God created everything. The details and methods are up for discussion and discovery.

I went to a Marianist high school, and was taught both bible study and a solid brace of science. And I have no problem holding two wildly disparate throughts in my head.

There was no one there at the creation. There is no first-person account. Therefore, it is an second-hand story. Even if God told the story to Man personally, it was interpreted.

"'Superluminal energy discharge?' Do you mind if I just make that 'Let there be light'?"



If you take "Human" to mean "Sentient / Sapient", it becomes easier to accept the ideas of aliens being equal to man, from a theological standpoint.

My rule of thumb is, if a being (or a representative of said being's species) can ask me clearly and distinctly not to eat it, I won't. So baby-eating is not permitted, just because the particular baby in your hand can't talk. (And that oughta summon McKeever to the thread...)
To summarize: anything stupider than me is food.:D



The Pope didn't change the day of the sabbath, he changed the starting point of the count to arrive at the end point he wanted. He decided that day 1 was Monday, so day 7 became Sunday. I believe it's known as the "one-potato-two-potato" rule.



..okay, I gotta laugh and point at that one. I don't know of ANY (rational, for lack of a better term) religion that includes aliens in the teachings. And I'm speaking as a minister of one that does.

I know there are parables. Jesus told the apostles in plain the truth. Everyone else got the "parables" of the truth. SO it still is literally the truth and not just stories.

As for aliens. I stated some people think they are the fallen angels God cast to earth. I didn't say I believe it. As for the good samaritan? I was always taught that it's atrue story and not an example of what good is.

As for science? Can't God have invented the physical world that some people use to try and disprove God????

[adama]

Mr. Terrific is only an athiest because he's a stubborn crybaby over his dead wife. A man of his knowledge should know that there are gods out there, he just refuses to acknowledge it because it goes against his views.
Can you blame him or any superhero who might also be athiest? Yes he has met the Spectre but who is to say the Spectre is not just a really powerful being? much like the Guardians on Oa or Parallax or Ares or the Moniters or Imperiex? To a man like Mr. T these guys are just powerful. Plus "the third smartest man on earth" can find more holes the bible than in a spong.

[dinkgms]

I think it's impossible for anyone to win either side of the argument of agnostic vs christian vs athiest vs anything alse because in this day and age DC and Marvel will not lean one way or another on their big guys.

It's sad, but the plain truth is that it wouldn't be good business sense on their part. As a Christian I'm happy with that. I would say Jonathan and Martha Kent are Christians so you would think Supes leans that way but......Also, I think most heros are god fearing because most of the funerals take place in a church setting and weddings have as well.

Again, we'll never know for sure but I think it's great they leave it open to personal interpretation.

We ALL need heros!;)

[Ember]

It was believed in those times that the end of the world would be within their lifetime, which I believe is where the ban on children came from. It was only after they worked out, the end of the world might not be straight away that the ban was lifted to simply be a discouragement. If I remember my history rightly.
Ban on children? There wasn't a ban on children.
I'm pretty sure there was, or at least a strong discouragement of them. My history tends to be better then my religious learning ;)

[EDIT]: A google search returns nothing, I'm positive it was, but I'll concede the point and reraise it if I ever find information confirming my memory.
Are you thinking of 1 Corinthians Chapter 7?
1 Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. 2 But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband. 3 The husband must fulfill his duty to his wife, and likewise also the wife to her husband. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does; and likewise also the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does. 5 Stop depriving one another, except by agreement for a time, so that you may devote yourselves to prayer, and come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control. 6 But this I say by way of concession, not of command. 7 Yet I wish that all men were even as I myself am. However, each man has his own gift from God, one in this manner, and another in that. 8 But I say to the unmarried and to widows that it is good for them if they remain even as I. 9 But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.--1 Corinthians 7:1-9[New American Standard translation]

It's not children that St. Paul is discouraging, but the behavior that produces them. And it's not so much a ban as an "I really wish you rather didn't (but....)" Toward the end of the chapter, he does seem to be saying that The End will come soon, making procreation unnecessary, but sex not sinful within marriage:
27 Are you bound to a wife? Do not seek to be released. Are you released from a wife? Do not seek a wife. 28 But if you marry, you have not sinned; and if a virgin marries, she has not sinned. Yet such will have trouble in this life, and I am trying to spare you. 29 But this I say, brethren, the time has been shortened, so that from now on those who have wives should be as though they had none; 30 and those who weep, as though they did not weep; and those who rejoice, as though they did not rejoice; and those who buy, as though they did not possess; 31 and those who use the world, as though they did not make full use of it; for the form of this world is passing away.--ibid.,27-31.
I agree that Superman's views of right and wrong would have been strongly influenced by the adoptive parents who raised him. And Batman would probably endorse any system that got people to behave well.
Would any super-heroes believe in or worship God? That might depend on their definition of Godhood. Do their job requirements for a deity include only omnipotence and omniscience, or do they also demand goodness and mercy? The Spectre's God might meet the former criteria, but IMHO not the latter.

[diana_fan]

I hate it when people say that Batman is an athiest. The man has encountered the Spectre, the Spirit of Vengeance of the Christian god. Worked with the champion of the Greek Gods. Hawkman and Black Adam are involved with the Egyptian gods. Batman beleives in the fact that there are gods, he just most likely doesn't WORSHIP a deity. Big difference.

And often when encountering Spectre claiming to be the embodiement of God's Vengeance, Batman says something like "So you claim."

And knowing that there are powerful creatures that claim to be gods is a LOT different than those creatures actually *being* divine. Cf. "Stargate" :)

If Wonder Woman or Superman travelled to Earth Prime, would they not seem as gods? Of course they would.

[David Bird]

You're right. I read it today during jury duty. He was not necessarily refering to any generation. He was probably talking about the generation upon his return. That could very well be our generation. 1/3 of people, trees, seas, etc. being destroyed could easily happen today (a nuclear war could do it in minutes). As for proving? Man shall not no the hour or day upon his return. How can anyone prove when that's going to happen after he says no one knows. It's more like just be ready when it happens.

When I talked of proofs, I meant to back up the claims that you were making about the Bible. I am a Christian myself, and I believe that the Bible is the word of God (as opposed to simply containing the word of God). In reading the Bible, though, we must keep alert to "wrest"-ing it to mean what we think it means and overly simplistic interpretations can be just as wrongheaded as overly rationalized ones.

Take Genesis chapter one, for example. In talking of creation it describes six days, but three of them passed before the creation of the sun, moon, and stars -- which are the basis of our understanding of a day. In fact, verse 14 says they were created on that day in order to allow us to measure days. How then were the first three measured? Moreover, when it marks the end of each day it says, "And the evening and the morning were the first day." The "second day", the third, etc. But the period from evening to morning is a night. So what is being described here isn't as simple as many want to believe -- and wanting to believe it doesn't make it true.

[Hu5h]

wow this thread really got derailed.....

anyways, I don't have a problem with Supes being a Liberal christian, seeing the scriptures as powerful and moving metaphors. Raised in the midwest, he'd most likely be raised a methodist. Once he discovered his Kryptonian heritage he'd probably incorporate a bit of Krypotonian mythology, but only the parts that didn't conflict too much with his non-literalist christian leanings.

Batman I can see as being a Deist. He believes in A God; probably doesn't think too much about Jesus though. And he's probably got a healthy skepticism of the Spectre's claims to being God's vengence.

I read somewhere that Luthor was supposedly raised Jewish, but is non-practicing. Not too sure about this. If he's back to having lived in Smallville while he was young I'd imagine he'd have been raised Atheist, for some reason. Being a mad scientist and all. (Sivana's an atheist!)



I

[New Way]

When I talked of proofs, I meant to back up the claims that you were making about the Bible. I am a Christian myself, and I believe that the Bible is the word of God (as opposed to simply containing the word of God). In reading the Bible, though, we must keep alert to "wrest"-ing it to mean what we think it means and overly simplistic interpretations can be just as wrongheaded as overly rationalized ones.

Take Genesis chapter one, for example. In talking of creation it describes six days, but three of them passed before the creation of the sun, moon, and stars -- which are the basis of our understanding of a day. In fact, verse 14 says they were created on that day in order to allow us to measure days. How then were the first three measured? Moreover, when it marks the end of each day it says, "And the evening and the morning were the first day." The "second day", the third, etc. But the period from evening to morning is a night. So what is being described here isn't as simple as many want to believe -- and wanting to believe it doesn't make it true.

plus many creationist believe that we are still in the 7th day.