UNCANNY X-MEN #444

[MattBrady]

<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/Marvel/Uncanny444_1_t.jpg" alt="Page 1" width="165" height="250" hspace="1" border="0" align="right"></a>Marvel has provided Newsarama with the first seven pages of <b>Uncanny X-Men #444</b> by Chris Claremont and Alan Davis which appear in the current <i>Marvel Previews</i>.

For Newsarama’s interview with Claremont about his upcoming run on <b>Uncanny</b>, click here (http://www.newsarama.com/pages/Marvel/Uncanny444Peek.htm).

[PeregrineReviews]

By god, I think we're on to something here.
X-Men. Friends and family. Baseball. Soap opera.
Claremont's taking the best of what he's been saddled with and what he's inherited from the other titles, and brought back some old, good feelings.

Hey, if you have to go retro with the costumes and all that again, Claremont has it all sewn up. With Alan Davis and Mark Farmer on the artistic assist, it brings me back to the X-Men I truly enjoyed, from a period before it all went ... um, south for the winter. I loved Grant's run, but if you can't beat it, don't try; go back to basics.

NOW I'm excited. This could be some good stuff, as long as the Bad Claremont (cough Storm:The Arena cough) doesn't butt in.

[Christian Otte]

Man, this actually looks pretty good. I love that it's back to some of the more grounded areas of the X-Men - those stories have been some of those I've enjoyed the most. The coloring is usually what make it or break it for me when I see Alan Davis' art, but this is very high quality.

[Brian Garside]

Now THIS is the X-Men I know and love.

I really enjoyed Morrison's run, Austen's run isn't as horrible as it could be, but this has that "X-Men feel".

This could be a fun book, at the very least it looks more entertaining than X-Treme has been.

[SpyGuy]

Nice stuff by Davis, but Claremont's dialogue seems a little stiff and dated.

And isn't Cannonball's brother's name Josh? D'OH!!!

[BlakSun]

why is Bishop drawn like that?

[mrvlvsdc]

These pages look great and I am now looking forward to reading an uncanny x-men issue for the first time in a long time. Anytime the x-men are playing a pickup game of baseball is fine by me and brings back fond memories. I like the return of the costumes and the drama as only Chris Claremont can provide. Alan Davis also appears to be in top form in this issue as everything looks as it should. I can't wait to read this as this is a nice new start for the uncanny x-men after being in a limbo for so many years. I also like how they still have the Stan Lee presents prominently displayed again. My only complaint is I think the color could be a bit crisper, I think Liquid would have been a good pick for this book but that's only nitpicking.

[A-San]

What I like the most about these pages is that it shows all of the X-Men, not just the ones designated to the book. It does a lot to restore the family aspect of the X-Men.

[Layters]

Originally posted by SpyGuy
Nice stuff by Davis, but Claremont's dialogue seems a little stiff and dated.

And isn't Cannonball's brother's name Josh? D'OH!!!

C'mon give Mike Marts a break it's not like the guy had a whole six issues dedicated to him. Oh he did.

It's not like its happened before anyways, oh it did.

LOL! Seriously though Claremont should know better anyways he created the character.

Maybe it's Sam's nickname for his brother?

Never good when editors miss things like this. That is what they are paid for. Still this book looks so bloody fantastic that i can get over it.

[LD18]

Sure the artwork looks good but Claremont is gonna bore me to death. I'm dropping this one from my pull list.

[KSChris]

Originally posted by LD18
Sure the artwork looks good but Claremont is gonna bore me to death. I'm dropping this one from my pull list.

You're telling me you stayed through Austen's run, but are going to drop it the minute a dynamic duo like Claremont/Davis gets on?!

Oy vey.

[aries_insaneus]

I need more than that to see if its any good, as one of the few people who stuck with X-treme X-Men to the end I have seen him start of good then turn to crap

[MikeHuffman]

Yeah, I've got me a case of big 'ol Claremont jitters, too. But count me in for a trial run at least. This isn't bad, 'tall.

That Davis art is nice, nice, nice.

Still hope that Bendis manages to wrest Beast back to the Avengers, though.

One gripe, however. Nightcrawler really is the son of Mystique and a demon? Lame.

— Mike

[WebHobbit]

Now THIS is the X-Men!

[topkat74]

This looks fantastic, I guess it is time for some colorful super adventures again. The old is new.

As far as Josh's name goes, it could be a shortcut nickname. I'm Tony but alot of my friends call me T, could be Josh as "J". Just an idea.

[cookepuss]

Very exciting preview. Claremont did manage to take the best & most interesting aspects of the past 2 years. X-Treme's metamorphosis into the XSE. Grant's outing of the school, as well as Jean's most recent death. Even a nifty reference to Austen's Draco storyline.

I've had a lot of bad stuff to say about Claremont over the past 2 years. I can't now. I'm actually excited at the prospect that he may make up for that dreadful Uncanny run from several years back.

[sythspawn]

It's nice to see that FARSCAPE is alive and well in the X-Men. :) Was that girl's name Rachel (as in Rachel Summers, Phoenix)?

[mc (_(\/)_)achete]

hmm... i think i'm gonna jump back into uncanny... :D

what's up with bishop, though? he looks a bit too... wide...? but i'm just nit-picking. the art looks good overall.

[Somebody]

</center>But is there any way we could get a legible version of this page?

http://www.newsarama.com/Marvel/Uncanny444_4.jpg

[thunderkid32]

Love it, thank you Buckley and thank god Jemas is gone.
Not lets put the costumes on and get rid of flying brains and human flies.

[FigNewton]

Originally posted by Somebody
But is there any way we could get a legible version of this page?

http://www.newsarama.com/Marvel/Uncanny444_4.jpg Here's one. (http://www.anotherpilotdown.net/xmenscan/scan0005.jpg)

[musclebound]

Now THIS is what I'm talkin' about! This gets me enthusiastic about reading Uncanny X-Men. And brother, THAT hasn't happened since like, um, a hundred years, kidding "issues" ago. Nice looking stuff, cool characters. Yeah, I'm all over this book. Good to feel excited about the X-books again. HOPE IT LASTS! DON'T LET THIS GET FUCKED UP JOE!!!:cool: :cool: :cool: :cool:

[jnreeves]

Does anyone else wish that beast didn't look so much like a cat now. I wish someone would come up with a story arc where beast's secondary mutation was reversed so that he could look cool again. He looks like he belongs in an old disney movie. Nonethless, the art looks sweet.

[tralfaz]

um, did i just step into a time warp or am i reading X-men number 1 all over again... does every reboot start with a baseball game? :rolleyes:

[Somebody]

</center>Originally posted by FigNewton
Here's one. (http://www.anotherpilotdown.net/xmenscan/scan0005.jpg) Thanks.

Oh, and DaReekstah, could you please close the centering in your signature? It messes up the printable page.

[Dr Manolis Dooplove]

the preview pages are amazing. This is the only x-book I'll be buying along with Academy-x come may!

does it seem to anyone else that this isjust xtreme xmen with a new penciller? :p

[render man]

Boring. And Costumes suck. I was curious about this comic, but it looks very uninteresting.

[swol]

But I am now.

I think I can get back into the X-Men world again if this is the look & feel.

My one and only complaint on the preview pages is, who the heck decided on pink on white for the Cerebro display? Talk about tough to read.

Here's hoping for the best.

[starvenger]

Originally posted by cookepuss
Even a nifty reference to Austen's Draco storyline.

You know, you could reference anything that Austen's done - Juggernaut, his tying up of the Mackie's Mutant X crap, etc - but I think that we should never, EVER, talk of The Draco again. I like Austen's stuff, but the Draco was such crap it actually made Mackie's stuff look good.

[Device]

Wow, X-Men playing baseball!

Now, that's something we haven't seen before.

*yawn*

Why doesn't Marvel just reprint the 90's runs instead?

Bye bye X-Men. In my continuity it all ends right after Morrison's run.

[WebHobbit]

Originally posted by jnreeves
Does anyone else wish that beast didn't look so much like a cat now. I wish someone would come up with a story arc where beast's secondary mutation was reversed so that he could look cool again. He looks like he belongs in an old disney movie. Nonethless, the art looks sweet.

I agee!

Lets get the cool lookin' Beast back!

[MikeHuffman]

Originally posted by WebHobbit
I agee!

Lets get the cool lookin' Beast back!

...and send his furry ass over to the Avengers where he belongs!

(Whoops, guess I'm starting to repeat myself...)

— Mike

[KyleV]

Doesn't Sam have like a gaggle of brothers?

[render man]

With the continual retooling and rebooting of the avengers and various cast member comics why havent mainstream marvel X-men comics come under that shadow? What I mean is the whole X universe in modern marvel continuity needs a rebooting. Cut it down to a meaner and leaner thing. One where you dont need to know the ins and outs of the Stryfe war or the Apocalypse shenanigan and well everything Lobdell came up with. As a casual X-fan I can barely understand any of what the current state of the X-men are.
I am intimidated when considering picking up an X-men comic. I feel like I would need to know too much just to understand what would be going on in the book. Maybe because there are like 20 X-Comics and they all just create some sort of misaligned continuity soup. Sure Morrison added a lot of convolution to the whole thing on his run, but at least he was breaking interesting and absurdly original ground. But I am just a G. Morrison fan and would read anything he does.
It looks like now marvel is just gonna retread what was hot 10 years ago. Is that called evolution to Marvel? Theres no way Claremont can match what he did years and years ago, that stuff was too good.

Reboot X-men and start over with just one book!!
Yes I know there is the ultimate universe, but it aint the same.

[Vyper]

Okay, okay, I'll pick up this issue, there's no need to get cruel and unusual ;)

In the meantime, though, I'll just have to console myself with the excellent Negation War series.

Read the AintItCoolNews' review of Negation: War #1 (http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/display.cgi?id=17249)

---------------------------------------
"NEGATION WAR #1 is everything a Marvel and DC comic should be but isn't. It's got world threatening menaces, guys in capes and cowls, team-ups, and all kinds of classic-style superheroics."
~AintItCoolNews

[Volunteer]

This looks like it is going to be really good. The "family of outcasts" dynamic was one of the best aspects of Claermont's long run. I look forward to this.

As an aside I was pleasantly surprised to see that Frank D'Armata is coloring the book. He did great work on Crux and I think he is very good at his job.

Volunteer

[Tom Daylight]

The art looks great, it all looks fun and intriguing.

But it isn't really going anywhere... I don't care for the baseball... and WHY OH WHY have they brought back the ALL-UPPERCASE lettering? :confused:

[J.C. Bakken]

Originally posted by render man
With the continual retooling and rebooting of the avengers and various cast member comics why havent mainstream marvel X-men comics come under that shadow? What I mean is the whole X universe in modern marvel continuity needs a rebooting. Cut it down to a meaner and leaner thing. One where you dont need to know the ins and outs of the Stryfe war or the Apocalypse shenanigan and well everything Lobdell came up with. As a casual X-fan I can barely understand any of what the current state of the X-men are.
I am intimidated when considering picking up an X-men comic. I feel like I would need to know too much just to understand what would be going on in the book. Maybe because there are like 20 X-Comics and they all just create some sort of misaligned continuity soup. Sure Morrison added a lot of convolution to the whole thing on his run, but at least he was breaking interesting and absurdly original ground. But I am just a G. Morrison fan and would read anything he does.
It looks like now marvel is just gonna retread what was hot 10 years ago. Is that called evolution to Marvel? Theres no way Claremont can match what he did years and years ago, that stuff was too good.

Reboot X-men and start over with just one book!!
Yes I know there is the ultimate universe, but it aint the same.

As far as I could tell, the 90's wasn't mentioned at all. There was the last few storylines in there, but little or less from the 90's.
As far as I could tell Morrison didn't as much break new ground but he fould new and intersting twists to the old grounds. Thus making them seem like new.

Me, I'm all over this like a puppy in heat. :D

[El Dandy]

On page #4 or 5, when Beast leaps into the pool, anyone notice the name of the woman standing at the pools edge with Sunspot? The pink box of text identifies her as "Evangeline Whedon." Is that an old character, or did Claremont give her that name because of a certain Buffy creator?

Interesting...

I think it's all very cool. These pages provoke a good feeling I haven't had for the X-Men in a long time. If that means I want the 80's or 90's X-men back, then so be it.

Change is good, even if it's a change that reminds you of the past.

[WebHobbit]

Originally posted by Fetsur
The art looks great, it all looks fun and intriguing.

But it isn't really going anywhere... I don't care for the baseball... and WHY OH WHY have they brought back the ALL-UPPERCASE lettering? :confused:

I could do with out the all-caps...the baseball is fine though.

[walterk]

When I picked up the Previews/Marvel Previews yesterday, I opened the "reverse side" thinking i'd find a preview of the "Amazing Fantasy" based on the cover. Found instead this 7-paged preview for Uncanny X-Men.

Re-tread of the past or not, THIS is what gets me into X-Men. The family dynamic (as was mentioned above by someone). Maybe because I "grew up" in the 90s, I've got some moments to remember. Though there have been, through the years, many good action stories and such for the X-Men...the issues/sequences that have stood out the most for me are the "down-time" ones.

Whether they're playing baseball, or football (there was one particularly amusing/competetive scene in UXM right before the Scott/Jean wedding, I believe).

Been "iffy" regarding UXM for May...but though this looks like it'll just be PART of the whole issue and such...I'll pick it up and give it a shot. :D

my $.02 as usual,

~Walt

[Vector]

Originally posted by swol

My one and only complaint on the preview pages is, who the heck decided on pink on white for the Cerebro display? Talk about tough to read.


That's not a cerebro display, it's Sage looking through her cybershades. I know it looks like she's in the cerebra room, but you never see her put the helmet on, she's just using her shades as usual.

[Tom Daylight]

Originally posted by WebHobbit
I could do with out the all-caps...the baseball is fine though.

Perhaps I should explain that baseball isn't exactly big in Britain ;)

[amaraswen]

Originally posted by LD18
Sure the artwork looks good but Claremont is gonna bore me to death. I'm dropping this one from my pull list.

In my case, I trust in my zealotry for Alan Davis to give me strength to wade through Claremont's trademarked cliched dialogue and unnecessary exposition. Why oh why don't they let Davis write the title? Anyone who has read ClanDestine, Killraven or his Excalibur solo run knows he's talented enough to do it, as of now, better than Claremont.

[KSChris]

Claremont or not.. this has a very old school happy-go-lucky feel to it. A very carefree feel that I haven't seen in X-Men in over a decade.

I'm game.

[sikokun]

This is what the X-men are all about. It is kinda funny that every few years they have the x-men play a game of baseball with the entire cast. More power to clarmount and davis, i was never really big on davis art but he has sold me. Hope that X-men and astonishing X-men can bring the same feeling to the table

P.S. BRING BACK THE OLD BEAST!!!That morrison version looks like a muppet from hell, besides why would be second mutate in to a more feral form when his mutation has nothing to do with that? the fur and stuff came for the "cure" he injected into himself not his mutation.

[I-Ching]

Well I'm interested....I'll say that much.

I love the fact that they started with a baseball game. Simple. Classic. Just like Alan Davis's artwork. The man is a genius.

The reboot seems a little more Claremont's speed than the horrible Revolution crap. It seemed like he was trying too hard to come up with "new" (lousy) villains in that run.

Morrison did a nice job advancing the series but it would be a stupid idea to have someone try and follow his lead. It seems as if they're leaving all of his stuff in continuity but allowing the back to basics approach which better suits the titles in the long run.

Glad to be looking forward to Uncanny again. Hope it lasts.

[djshalope]

Wow. This looks... horrible. This is what everyone has been waiting for? The X-Men as a bunch of rich, mansion loving media figures? I don't see any point in spending time in Sage's head - a character who seems simply boring to me.

Most importantly, I'm not feeling a great innovative vibe that I grab from most X-Men relaunches. Obviously I'm being too pesimistic here, but it's hard not to expect big things from this team of creators. Unfortunately, I'm already feeling sleepy from all the narrative text on these pages. I understand how for some, this feels like coming home. But in my opinion as a reader for mucho years, the essence of the X-Men is the ability to reinvent and keep the readers refreshed. I'm feeling down on this preview because it suggests a reverse direction to me.

Of course, you can never tell until you actually pick up the book. So I'm not going to make a statement like "Oh wow I'm gonna pull this from my list." More likely than not I'll grab the first few or at least flip through them. But I do disagree with the majority sentiment on these boards.

[Jaime Ramirez]

Originally posted by El Dandy
On page #4 or 5, when Beast leaps into the pool, anyone notice the name of the woman standing at the pools edge with Sunspot? The pink box of text identifies her as "Evangeline Whedon." Is that an old character, or did Claremont give her that name because of a certain Buffy creator?


She's a character in the most recent issues of Claremont's X-TREME X-MEN.

JR

[Michael P]

When in doubt, go with the classics. (And when was the last time the team played baseball, anyway?)

[KSChris]

I never realized how similar Kordey and Davis' styles were...

[Aquaboy]

OK i just read through the responses and here's some answers.

regarding jay/josh.... considering claremont created samuel guthrie and the kentucky guthrie clan, i'm sure a name/nickname is no big deal.
claremont even acknowledged he who's name who cannot be spoken's run by tossing in the draco storyline and having josh enter the school.
yes, it's rachel summer's and i never knew she could repair the blackbird. i guess she stil has her telepathy.
evangeline whedon was created in xtreme xmen as a shapechanging mutant rights activist/lawyer. she turns into a gigantic lockheed.

it felt right to see the x-men play baseball again. all the old school readers have had fond memories of this. it's like how all the JLA/JSA fans get happy when they have their thanksgiving dinner.

claremont basically mentions all the current x-squads in activity as well as its teaching staff

i liked it. it reminds me alot of what i enjoyed back in the day with all the trappings that have been left in current continuity. as much as i am a major morrison fan...ill stop this before i go on a invisibles rant.... the x-men franchise will continue and it's nice to see that i can enjoy this title now that he who's name cannot be spoken has left.

[Baron Zemo]

Originally posted by Michael P
When in doubt, go with the classics.
Which for Marvel means completely repeating themselves. Marvel could have tried to go forward, but this feels very backward to me. Costumes, Claremont, and way too many damn X-titles were the past; now I am supposed to believe it is the future too. I read Claremont on FF (I was young and very foolish) and I see alot of the same problems: way too much unneccasary exposition, stiff dialogue, and a generally outdated feel.

I love classic X-Men, but I love Grant's work too. I believe the X-books have to move forward. This isn't forward; it is nostalgia. Nostalgia is fine, but this whole reload stinks of it. I would like some forward monentum to these books. We need good stories not thowbacks to the good old days.

PS I love the Beast's new look. He was just a furry blue guy. Now he is a real beast. You can always go back and read old stories featuring his classic look. Of course, I do like the prospect of Beast on the Avengers. I like the dynamic he has with that group, but he can stay with the X-Men as long as he has something good to do.

[steveupson]

Well this seems like a really safe move, playing up the nostalgia angle.

I must say, I also have very fond memories of old-school X-Men, but now that they've become the commercial giants they are, this just seems a bit uninspired, to put it nicely.

I sympathize with all of the X-men fans out there who want a return to the glory days, but the glory days will never be erased from your back issues: when you open up that old comic, it's still happening NOW.
So, let new comics be new, and go in never-before-imagined directions.
We don't have to dwell on the past, to always remember it.

OK, end of hallmark card.

p.s. I mean no disrespect to Chris Claremont, who I will always admire for the wealth of stories that he created, which means a lot to many people, myself included.

[David P. Lyons]

It's too bad that Claremont didn't accompany the announcements with internal monlogue from each character explaining their powers and their emotional hangups. Then it would have been truly classic Claremont.

Ugh. Given the audience this kind of crap continues to garner I can see even more clearly why popular culture spawns so much crap.

Yeah, I know: "But I liiiiikkkkke it! ."

Ugh.

[cyclopsfan]

Originally posted by sythspawn
It's nice to see that FARSCAPE is alive and well in the X-Men. :) Was that girl's name Rachel (as in Rachel Summers, Phoenix)? Yes it is! Read chapter 5 of The current arc in X-treme for details..

[Beyerstein]

I think it looks real exciting. and thank god they're going back to all caps

[El Dandy]

Originally posted by David P. Lyons
It's too bad that Claremont didn't accompany the announcements with internal monlogue from each character explaining their powers and their emotional hangups. Then it would have been truly classic Claremont.

Ugh. Given the audience this kind of crap continues to garner I can see even more clearly why popular culture spawns so much crap.



For someone who obviously doesn't like Claremont at all, you seem to know all about his writing quirks of the past. And you've taken the time to read all of the pages so you could give your 2 cents.

That tells me you either used to be a fan of his, or you just want to spawn some of that crap you were talking about, and this is your only outlet.

How sad.

[mdhprime]

Welcome back to Chris Claremont and Alan Davis. The first seven pages look great...just wish we did not have to wait for the rest of it!

[theseacow]

Ultimate X-Men Vol. 1-5(collecting #1-25+4) Mark Millar, for sale at ebay,

2 hours left!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2233208328

(get off my ass matt!) (ass-mat? new invention?) fuck it.

[AdamYJ]

I don't know. I like it so far. It may not seem innovative, but it does seem like fun. If you don't like it, I suggest not reading it. That's the way it was when I tried Morrison's take. I read it. I didn't like it. So, I didn't read it anymore. Luckily, there were so many x-books I had the luxury of picking one that I did like and just reading that.

Did anyone else notice that Lockheed is back? We also got confirmation that Rachel Summers is the new Marvel Girl. I'm still wondering what's going to happen to Jubilee during this whole thing.

[dgmagill]

I was getting this anyway, but these pages are exactly what I'm looking for in my X-Men. Yes, I bought and liked most of Morrison's run and I stayed far away from Casey and Austen. I got some of X-treme, but lost interest after Larocca left and only got a few of Kordey's issues (not the Arena, as that was of no interest whatsoever).

Forward ho! This is the lightness back into the lives of the X-Men! Sure, this is nostalgic, but that's the point! Claremont is giving the old-time fans a present, but I would hope that he is ready to move forward as well.

Finally, I have to say to Dan Buckley: THANK YOU for allowing some titles to have all caps lettering!! I have tolerated the mixed case for a long time, but I am so happy to see titles like this (and Avengers/T-Bolts) to have the "comic book" style of lettering.

DGM
Guess I'll have to Byrne-steal the last few X-treme issues to find out how Rachel comes back...

[Bagheera]

:cool:

[David P. Lyons]

Originally posted by El Dandy
For someone who obviously doesn't like Claremont at all, you seem to know all about his writing quirks of the past. And you've taken the time to read all of the pages so you could give your 2 cents.

That tells me you either used to be a fan of his, or you just want to spawn some of that crap you were talking about, and this is your only outlet.

How sad.

Other conclusions could, and actually do, follow from the facts you cite. Specifically, I love the medium. I also love quality work. When banal work succeeds, the medium suffers. It's that simple.

Yes, I read Claremont's X-Men until issue 201, back in the day, when the me of 15 realized that his stories, even then, weren't going anywhere and relied far too heavily on cliches. It's still the same. I don't see how the fact that I enjoyed his work at one time affects the validity of my assesment. Probably because it doesn't.

[David P. Lyons]

Originally posted by AdamYJ
I don't know. I like it so far. It may not seem innovative, but it does seem like fun. If you don't like it, I suggest not reading it. That's the way it was when I tried Morrison's take. I read it. I didn't like it. So, I didn't read it anymore. Luckily, there were so many x-books I had the luxury of picking one that I did like and just reading that.

Did anyone else notice that Lockheed is back? We also got confirmation that Rachel Summers is the new Marvel Girl. I'm still wondering what's going to happen to Jubilee during this whole thing.

Yes. It's all quite important and interesting.

[Mike Marts]

Hey all,

Just for the record, "Jay" is Sam's nickname for his younger brother. Short for "Josh".

Thanks for reading. Glad to see most of you are excited for the new direction this May.

Mike Marts
X-Editor

[David P. Lyons]

Originally posted by dgmagill
I was getting this anyway, but these pages are exactly what I'm looking for in my X-Men. Yes, I bought and liked most of Morrison's run and I stayed far away from Casey and Austen. I got some of X-treme, but lost interest after Larocca left and only got a few of Kordey's issues (not the Arena, as that was of no interest whatsoever).

Forward ho! This is the lightness back into the lives of the X-Men! Sure, this is nostalgic, but that's the point! Claremont is giving the old-time fans a present, but I would hope that he is ready to move forward as well.



I hope that works out for you, but, and you heard this here first: it won't.

[David P. Lyons]

Originally posted by Mike Marts


Thanks for reading. Glad to see most of you are excited for the new direction this May.



Given that Marvel's just interested in flooding the market with crap, that doesn't surprise me.

[cookepuss]

Originally posted by starvenger
You know, you could reference anything that Austen's done - Juggernaut, his tying up of the Mackie's Mutant X crap, etc - but I think that we should never, EVER, talk of The Draco again. I like Austen's stuff, but the Draco was such crap it actually made Mackie's stuff look good.
It wasn't THAT bad. Sure Austen has done better stuff, but he has done worse. I think that there's so much Austen bashing going on that 90's of fanboys must be sheep, willing to go along with the popular sentiment no matter what. Ah... the internet generation at its finest. :)

[The 'Nam]

Originally posted by PeregrineReviews
By god, I think we're on to something here.
X-Men. Friends and family. Baseball. Soap opera.
Claremont's taking the best of what he's been saddled with and what he's inherited from the other titles, and brought back some old, good feelings.

Hey, if you have to go retro with the costumes and all that again, Claremont has it all sewn up. With Alan Davis and Mark Farmer on the artistic assist, it brings me back to the X-Men I truly enjoyed, from a period before it all went ... um, south for the winter. I loved Grant's run, but if you can't beat it, don't try; go back to basics.

NOW I'm excited. This could be some good stuff, as long as the Bad Claremont (cough Storm:The Arena cough) doesn't butt in.

amen to that. my only problem so far is that i prefer it when the x-men play basketball, not baseball :)

[WebHobbit]

Originally posted by Mike Marts
Hey all,

Just for the record, "Jay" is Sam's nickname for his younger brother. Short for "Josh".

Thanks for reading. Glad to see most of you are excited for the new direction this May.

Mike Marts
X-Editor

Thank YOU for getting some great artists lined up for the X-Books! It's about time!

:)

[gwangung]

There seems to be two types of X-men fans here:

Whiny little snots who can't stand anything Morrison did.

and...

Whiny little snots who can't stand anything Morrison didn't do.

Not a lot of room for folks who appreciate the strengths of individual artists and that the tent is big enough for multiple approaches...

[gwangung]

...of course, folks all agree they hate Austen....

[WebHobbit]

Originally posted by gwangung
There seems to be two types of X-men fans here:

Whiny little snots who can't stand anything Morrison did.

and...

Whiny little snots who can't stand anything Morrison didn't do.

Not a lot of room for folks who appreciate the strengths of individual artists and that the tent is big enough for multiple approaches...

I love Grant Morrison's stuff. Too bad much of it suffered along with a parade of terrible art. Nice that it ended with two great ones.

I also LOVE Chris Claremont. As far as I'm concerned he IS the Father of the modern X-Men.

Don't care too much for Austen...that's the nicest way I can put it.

[dogofwar]

Originally posted by thunderkid32
Love it, thank you Buckley and thank god Jemas is gone.
Not lets put the costumes on and get rid of flying brains and human flies.



YEAH!!!!!!

[KSChris]

Love Morrison.

No problem with Austen.

'Nuff said for me.

[wraith]

My thoughts.

1. I read this 7 page preview at the store yesterday, and I LOVED IT. This is how the X-Men are supposed to be writen.

2. Am I the only one who thinks it's hypocritical of those fans who bash Claremont and Davis for taking the X-Men back to a more classic direction, while at the same time praising Morrison on his unoriginal and rehashed X-Men run? That's right kiddies, Morrison's X-Men run was NOT original. I'm also willing to bet that most of the people bashing the Claremont and Davis for taking UXM in a more retro direction, praised Morrison to no end for his retro take on the JLA.

3. I'm glad the lettering in UXM has returned to all caps.

4. Those of you who don't like the idea of Claremont and Davis taking a more retro/classic/old school take on the X-Men, I suggest you follow your own advise and go back and reread all of your od Morrison issues.

5. Thundercat Beast has to go. Return Beast to either his classic blue furry ape form or his even more classic/original human form.

6. I realy wish Gambit andRogue were on the Uncanny team.

7. The whole Draco fiasco needs to be retconned out of continuity forever and never mentioned again.

[csGuy]

I'll say it again:
Cannonball's costume...EEEEEW!!!!!

[William Coate]

It all seems very disappointing to me. The past is the past. You can't go back. Claremont hasn't written a decent X-Men story in years. With the return of SPANDEX and the old stories I am just not interested. Too bad Marvel didn't create a new title following the ideas and concepts of Morrison (And NO I am not talking about that New X-Men title). Even with a new writer it would have been far more interesting to read compared to this crap. I suppose I really have to consider Morrison's run as the final episode in the X-Men saga.

William Coate

[J.C. Bakken]

Originally posted by wraith
4. Those of you who don't like the idea of Claremont and Davis taking a more retro/classic/old school take on the X-Men, I suggest you follow your own advise and go back and reread all of your od Morrison issues.

LOL, word!:D

[wraith]

Originally posted by djshalope
Wow. This looks... horrible. This is what everyone has been waiting for? The X-Men as a bunch of rich, mansion loving media figures? I don't see any point in spending time in Sage's head - a character who seems simply boring to me.

The only time I can recall the X-Men acting as a bunch of rich,mansion loving media figures was durring Morrison's run. It was durring Morrison's run that the X-Men were holding press conferences at the mansion. It was durring Morrison's run that the X-Men did noting to get rid of the massive press gatering outside their mansion night and day. It was durring Morrison's run that most of the X-Men's adventures and stories revolved in and around the mansion.

OMT, have you read any other stories featuring Sage, besides this 7 page preview? If you had, I'm pretty sure (but I could be wrong) tat you would'nt think of her as a borring character.

[William Coate]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by wraith
4. Those of you who don't like the idea of Claremont and Davis taking a more retro/classic/old school take on the X-Men, I suggest you follow your own advise and go back and reread all of your od Morrison issues.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Originally posted by J.C. Bakken
LOL, word!:D

Huh LOL, turd!:eek: :D :eek: :D :eek:

[Frankie Thirteen]

Remember the days when "All New, All Different" used to mean something?

[SBP72]

I'd have to agree with the people who referenced Morrison's "old/new" JLA. No, I'm not saying it will be as good. But Morrison was able to go "retro" with JLA and still make it fresh and forward-moving. I am cautiously optimistic that Claremont can do the same here.
And just a couple of minor quibbles: Cannonball's costume... not so much. I see Sam and think "trapeze artist in hunting vest orange". Love the man, get him a decent uniform. Also not sure
about Cat-Beast anymore. Fit in with Grant's run, but seems out of place now. And the "Draco" reference. I don't mean this as a personal bash, but I was hoping most of Austen's stories would quietly go away. They just seemed out of place.
But overall, curious to see where this may all head...

[Gregg Cummings]

Originally posted by PeregrineReviews
By god, I think we're on to something here.
X-Men. Friends and family. Baseball. Soap opera.
Claremont's taking the best of what he's been saddled with and what he's inherited from the other titles, and brought back some old, good feelings.

The perfect first post! My feelings exactly! The X-Men are back... finally!

Originally posted by mrvlvsdc
These pages look great and I am now looking forward to reading an uncanny x-men issue for the first time in a long time. Anytime the x-men are playing a pickup game of baseball is fine by me and brings back fond memories. I like the return of the costumes and the drama as only Chris Claremont can provide. Alan Davis also appears to be in top form in this issue as everything looks as it should. I can't wait to read this as this is a nice new start for the uncanny x-men after being in a limbo for so many years. I also like how they still have the Stan Lee presents prominently displayed again. My only complaint is I think the color could be a bit crisper, I think Liquid would have been a good pick for this book but that's only nitpicking.

You have no idea how good it feels to know that I am not alone. The first page with the team playing baseball sealed the deal for me! Alan Davis certainly is bringing his A game!

Originally posted by WebHobbit
I could do with out the all-caps...the baseball is fine though.

It had better be! I only wish that Generation X were still around... Joe Mad turned that issue out like a muther!

Originally posted by DaReekstah
Claremont or not.. this has a very old school happy-go-lucky feel to it. A very carefree feel that I haven't seen in X-Men in over a decade.

I'm game.

I am surprised and pleased all at once... I had figured that you would hate it. You have been preaching “step backwards” for some time now.

Originally posted by sikokun
This is what the X-men are all about. It is kinda funny that every few years they have the x-men play a game of baseball with the entire cast. More power to clarmount and davis, i was never really big on davis art but he has sold me. Hope that X-men and astonishing X-men can bring the same feeling to the table

This is what the X-Men are all about for me as well, a family. I too was not a fan of the previous Alan Davis run on both Uncanny and X-Men... my fears have been stripped away with these previews.

Originally posted by sikokun
P.S. BRING BACK THE OLD BEAST!!!That morrison version looks like a muppet from hell, besides why would be second mutate in to a more feral form when his mutation has nothing to do with that? the fur and stuff came for the "cure" he injected into himself not his mutation.

Preach! You are trying to bring logic into a Grant Morrison story line... for shame. The second mutation should have been simian in nature rather than feline. Imagine what Hank would look like if he had not botched the cure and grown blue fur... Imagine at your own risk!

[Somebody]

<style><!--center{ text-align: left}--></style></center>We'll see...

[Bagheera]

Yeah, don't expect a 'retro' feel to the X-Men now that Claremont's on board. He's taken the X-People in more directions than anyone else could have dreamt...

Wolverine in Madripoor? His idea.
X-Men 'dying' in Dallas and moving to Australia? His idea.
The formation of The New Mutants? His idea.
The formation of Excalibur? His idea.
Turning Kitty Pryde into a 'demon' ninja? His idea.
A concentration camp in Magneto's past? His idea.
Showing Logan to be more than 100 years old? His idea.
Making Sabretooth the archnemesis of Wolverine? His idea.
Magneto heading up Xavier's Institute? His idea.
Logan's depiction as a 'failed samurai?' His idea.
The Phoenix force? His idea.
The networking shades used by the X-Treme team? His idea.
Sage shown to be an agent of Xavier? His idea.
Hell, the Hellfire Club? His idea.
The creation of almost every mutant in the Marvel Universe? His ideas.

The fact of the matter is this: A lot of you see Claremont as 'retro' simply because he was before your time. But the man has more ideas in his head than Morrison.

And I like Morrison.:cool:

* * *

And for the love of God, don't bring up Claremont's last run on Uncanny and X-Men. He was saddled with some f*cked-up continuity and at least two crossovers.

He finally hit his stride again with X-Treme. If you never gave it a chance ... well, your loss. Uncanny's gonna' follow through on some of his ideas from that book, I'm sure.

[FigNewton]

I'm still rather surprised by all the people hating on Sam's costume. Honestly, I rather like it.

[wraith]

Originally posted by William Coate
It all seems very disappointing to me. The past is the past. You can't go back. Claremont hasn't written a decent X-Men story in years. With the return of SPANDEX and the old stories I am just not interested. Too bad Marvel didn't create a new title following the ideas and concepts of Morrison (And NO I am not talking about that New X-Men title). Even with a new writer it would have been far more interesting to read compared to this crap. I suppose I really have to consider Morrison's run as the final episode in the X-Men saga.

William Coate

Like I said in a previous post, how is Claremont and Davis retro take on the X-Men any more worse or anyless original then Morrison's rehashed and unoriginal NXM run?

For the record

1. Casandra Nova = the Entity (fom the X-Men and Micronauts mini series) and Onslaught

2. The X-Men and teir school being outed was done in the MC2 universe title J2

3. Here Comes Tomorrow = Days of Future Past

4. Jean becoming the Phoenix (again) and dying (again) has been done before

5. Cyclops falling for another telepathic teammate (Psylocke),thus creating a love triangle between him Jean and the telepathic team mate has been done before

6. The X-Men as teachers has been done before

7. The school being run like an actual school has been done before

8. Beak = Birdboy

9. A bunch of mutants getting killed has been done before

10. Fantomax = Maggot/Gambit

11. the X-Men fighting the Imperial Guard andthe sentinels has been done before

12. Magneto joining te X-Men (again) has been done before

[Mister Sinister]

Yeah, people bash Claremont, but the man darn near created the entire X-Universe. Without him Morrison would not have had an X-Universe to play with. Not every story line that Claremont has written in the X-Universe has been a huge hit, but the man has written thousands of stories, you think this is easy, try it. Claremont's good stories dwarf his bad ones. People must think that it is easy to write stories that top stories that top stories etc..... Not a one of we message board posters could even come close to writing as well as Claremont, therefore have no grounds to insult the man. You have the right not to buy his comics, but not to insult his writing talents.

[dogofwar]

My input:
The Morrison run:For me it was to high concept, Matrixized and to obsessed to be edgy and progressive.Which would have been fine except there were NO fun or exetiment or adventure(yes there were the desttruction of Genosha and the Planet x saga but still...Well think X-men ...BBC stile.

BEAST going back to his previus form:Sure!!!So he looked like a blue chimpanzee with a Wolverine hair-cut? No thanks.

I would like to see in the reloaded x titles:BEAK, FANTOMEX,VARGAS(the guy that killed PSYLOCKE)

I dont whant to see : CASSANDRA NOVA,MARTHA,THE NEOS(remember those ?)

AND BRING BACK PSYLOCKE!!!

[blue13]

Originally posted by thunderkid32
Love it, thank you Buckley and thank god Jemas is gone.
Not lets put the costumes on and get rid of flying brains and human flies.

do you even know buckley and/or jemas?

or is it a popular pastime to bash jemas?

i mean, i don't make any comments because i know nothing about "behind-the-scenes" stuff.

but during jemas' tenure, lots of good things happened. the "ultimate" titles...morrison on x-men...no more unnecessary miniseries featuring stars like gambit and bishop, etc.

[dazzler80mi]

I dont' know about y'all, but i'm just a little excited that Rachel Summers is back, woo hoo...and i love the stories that Claremont wrote...to me he is the greatest writer that the X-Men ever had...true, he didnt' always had the best ideas, but neither did any other writer...even Grant...my god, it was hard to understand his stories after the first couple of arcs...actually after the first couple of arcs, his writing went down hill fast but thats just my opinion, and the scene with Iceman icing up Kitty's arm...is that Colossus sitting next to her? If it is...oh my god, oh my god, I love you Chris, he was one of my favorite X-Men of all time... i would so love to see him make a return, him and Psylocke, anywho...

[AdamYJ]

Though I like Claremont, I don't particularly hate Morrison. I understand he had some good ideas and lots of people liked it, but his book just didn't appeal to me. There are some Morrison ideas that I thought were going to be terrible, but they turned out okay. Turning the mansion back into a school, for example. The X-Mansion historically was a place where almost anybody could come and manage to fit in. High Schools, historically, are the type of place where absolutely nobody truly fits in. Give it a few months and a good comic (New Mutants) and it doesn't seem so bad. Though, I still wonder about some of the less popular kids and if they're doing okay there.

As for Austen, I think he had some potential but didn't really follow through well. I really liked his idea of making Juggernaut the team strong-man and bringing Northstar in was a cool idea that didn't pan out. The Draco was a somewhat interesting idea, but it fell apart pretty quickly. He did manage to get Kurt out of the priesthood, though.

Now, on to the Beast's look. I admit I am partial to Hank's old look. For one, I thought his facial expressions were easier to read when he looked human. However, there is one even bigger reason I liked it: Beast's super-dextrous fingers and toes. As a person who has had a tendency of picking things up with his feet myself (don't laugh) I thought it was very cool that a superhero had that ability too. There are ways of doing the ape-like look without making him seem like a furry Wolverine. X-Men: Evolution managed it. One thing I've been thinking though, if they truly want to make Hank seem beastly, why not play it to the hilt. Make him a composite creature. Face of a lion. Arms and legs of an ape. Mind of a human. Throw one or two other mammalian traits in there. It worked for the Disney version of Beauty and The Beast.

But I digress.

[KyleV]

I know I'm going to regret this...

1. Casandra Nova = the Entity (fom the X-Men and Micronauts mini series) and Onslaught

Like Onslaught because she was related to Xavier in some way? Because beyond that I don't see the connection.

2. The X-Men and teir school being outed was done in the MC2 universe title J2

So it was done in a title that takes place in an alternate timeline. It hasn't been done in current X-men continuity. That's like saying it was done in an issue of JLA or something.

3. Here Comes Tomorrow = Days of Future Past

Which wasn't an original idea, either, since post-apocalyptic futures have been done hundreds of times.

4. Jean becoming the Phoenix (again) and dying (again) has been done before

That's kind of the point of a Phoenix.

5. Cyclops falling for another telepathic teammate (Psylocke),thus creating a love triangle between him Jean and the telepathic team mate has been done before

Those, what, three issues back in the 90's when Scott lusted after Betsy? THAT had lasting impact, didn't it?

6. The X-Men as teachers has been done before

They've ALWAYS been teachers, so it's not like Morrison's the only one who has used that concept. It's like saying by calling them mutants he was trying to pass it off as an original idea.

Ditto for #7.

8. Beak = Birdboy

Aside from both being birdlike (ignoring the fact that Birdboy wasn't even a mutant), explain to me how else they were similar.

9. A bunch of mutants getting killed has been done before

So he's can't kill anyone or he's unoriginal. Wait -- can they use their powers? Or would that be copying?

10. Fantomax = Maggot/Gambit

... How?

11. the X-Men fighting the Imperial Guard and the sentinels has been done before

This is getting unreal. So they couldn't fight any of their established enemies?

12. Magneto joining te X-Men (again) has been done before

This one we can dislike together, but I still have an argument for it! :) I refuse to accept that the character we saw in Planet X was Magneto. I'm under the delusional belief that it was actually Xorn who had snapped and completely believe that he was Magneto. I can even give you evidence to support that theory!

I love Morrison as much as the next guy, but his Magneto was just painful to read.

[BuckySinister]

Well. This was much better than I feared it was going to be. Considering how very much I've disliked everything I've read from Claremont in the last decade, this didn't really seem all that awful. It felt very much like the X-Men of the early and mid-80s, which I suppose is pleasant enough. The series hadn't yet degenerated into the "grimmer than thou" nonsense that later defined it. The stories were fun, the characters more or less made sense, and you didn't need a PhD in X-Men to understand any given issue. It was a nice, safe period of X-Men history.

But Claremont's best days on the book were behind him. The creative energy that defined his run with Byrne was gone, surfacing only occasionally for things like the first Brood arc. The characters hadn't turned into the whining adolescents they would later become, but they were well on the way. Overall, it was an okay run. But nothing to write home about.

And that's how these seven pages read to me: a pleasant, but not at all exciting, reflection of past glories. Grant Morrison's run already revisited all the old X-Men tropes, and laid them neatly in their graves. I don't need to read about them again. So while the art is very, very nice, it's not enough. I'll be giving this one a miss.

[Koolaid]

Originally posted by William Coate
It all seems very disappointing to me. The past is the past. You can't go back. Claremont hasn't written a decent X-Men story in years. With the return of SPANDEX and the old stories I am just not interested. Too bad Marvel didn't create a new title following the ideas and concepts of Morrison (And NO I am not talking about that New X-Men title). Even with a new writer it would have been far more interesting to read compared to this crap. I suppose I really have to consider Morrison's run as the final episode in the X-Men saga.

William Coate


Sorry to see you go William. But I don't see how you can call the issue total crap after just reading a couple of pages. I think you already have it in your mind that your not going to like it.

I for one think that its a step in the right direction. Morrison is a great writer but he never really hit his stride with the X men. I don't see what the hype is with his run.

I mean seriously that Magneto story was utter crap. Magneto to me is one of the greatest characters ever, and Grant pissed on him. The story absolutley sucked.

His start was promising. E for Extinction was interesting, but that was it. Other than that nothing memorable happened.

I agree with most of the post's on this thread.

This is a step in the right direction.

[DarkCrisis]

Lockheed!!!!!!!!!1

And who is that next to Kitty.... Is that Piotr?

[dogofwar]

Originally posted by Koolaid
Sorry to see you go William. But I don't see how you can call the issue total crap after just reading a couple of pages. I think you already have it in your mind that your not going to like it.

I for one think that its a step in the right direction. Morrison is a great writer but he never really hit his stride with the X men. I don't see what the hype is with his run.

I mean seriously that Magneto story was utter crap. Magneto to me is one of the greatest characters ever, and Grant pissed on him. The story absolutley sucked.

His start was promising. E for Extinction was interesting, but that was it. Other than that nothing memorable happened.

I agree with most of the post's on this thread.

This is a step in the right direction.


Exactly my point abot Morrison.

[Hooks]

Want a large collection of *25* X-men trades and graphic novels at a cheap price? Bid now, bid's currently only $50 with a day left to go!

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=35783&item=2233948311&ssPageName=STRK:MESSE:IThttp://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=35783&item=2233948311&ssPageName=STRK:MESSE:IT

[WebHobbit]

:rolleyes:

Spam much?

[zeraze]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Vyper
Okay, okay, I'll pick up this issue, there's no need to get cruel and unusual ;)

In the meantime, though, I'll just have to console myself with the excellent Negation War series.

Read the AintItCoolNews' review of Negation: War #1 (http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/display.cgi?id=17249)

---------------------------------------
"NEGATION WAR #1 is everything a Marvel and DC comic should be but isn't. It's got world threatening menaces, guys in capes and cowls, team-ups, and all kinds of classic-style superheroics."
~AintItCoolNews

Agreed...except for the part about picking up UNCANNY X-MEN 444. (More on that later.) Ambush Bug's review at AICN perfectly sums up why CrossGen's comics are more daring and entertaining than most of the Big Two's offerings. I especially loved this part

"I know what you're going to say. A recommendation for a Crossgen book? Whatever man. That shit ain't cool, it's boring. No. That's not boring. Boring is a book filled with non-stop talking heads and pulse-less plot movement where the hero who's name is on the cover doesn't appear until the very last page of the book laying on his ass in plain clothes and balling like a school girl (see last week's DAREDEVIL, or any other recent Marvel book for that matter). NEGATION WAR is comic book storytelling done right. It looks like a comic book, it reads like a comic book, and it got this Crossgen avoidant to take interested in how it's all going to pan out. Sick of Nu pacing, deconstruction, and shamed self awareness? Give NEGATION WAR a try."

To understand where Ambush Bug's enthusiasm for NW #1 comes from check out this preview:

http://www.comicon.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=36&t=001963

That is what a Superman comic should be like. Because the CGU is not chock full of corporate icons bogged down by decades of continuity, the creators can take more risks like having the alien invaders actually win against the god-like superhero. It's this gutsiness in an industry that too often plays it safe (e.g., X-Men Reloaded except for Exiles, anyone?) which impresses me.

zeraze

P.S.

I said "except Exiles" because the talented Tony Bedard (Negation: War, Kiss Kiss Bang Bang) will replace Chuck Austen starting with issue #46. Hence, this is the X-comic with best shot of living up to the X-Men Reloaded hype. Read more at this recent Newsarama article:

http://newsarama.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10234

[reg hollis]

That dialogue! Aaaaaaaaaaaaah!

It was fine in the seventies, but not anymore!

[tralfaz]

i have a feeling 4 months into this people will be bitching

[KSChris]

Originally posted by DarkCrisis
And who is that next to Kitty.... Is that Piotr?

Looks more like Juggy to me.

[TylerS]

I haven't enjoyed a Claremont story in over 20 years...but I see Lucy holding the football...I'll give it a shot. :o

[scan2001]

Booyah! This is the X-men that I want to see. I will be getting this for sure. People you have to stop crying about Austen. You know he isn't going away any time soon.

[Chris]

I was in love with this preview. I simply can't wait for the issue to arrive now...

With that, I enjoyed Morrison's run for the most part. It was... different. Only this I truly hated was the transformation of Beast.

X-Treme X-Men was hit or miss. I think I enjoyed every OTHER story. The last couple have been pretty good. Classic Claremont.

And... *looks around* I even enjoy most of Austen's Uncanny. He's had a few bad issues, but everyone does. I wasn't offended by Draco like most everyone else. I just thought it was poorly executed.

I have high hopes for the reload... now if only Beast could go back to his previous form...


Chris

[xpositive]

Ah the good old days. Loved those issues where they'd play baseball, do some character development, and didn't have Chuck Austen. Life is good again.

[zeraze]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by scan2001
People you have to stop crying about Austen. You know he isn't going away any time soon.

Well, Marvel has kicked Austen off Exiles (see my earlier post) and Avengers so it looks like his departure will be sooner rather than later. (Thank God. Exiles will finally have a great writer again with the appointment of Tony Bedard.)

zeraze

[The Mirrorball Man]

I think I'll just read my old issues of New X-Men again... and Clan Destine.

[Erik K]

You know, Claremont was the one who was there when I first loved X-Men. And I loved them for a long run, and then grew away, as continuity and sheer overload of characters and timelines got to be too much.

Morrison got me back, and at my, um, older age, I loved the jettisoning of the costumes.

Now, despite the costumes coming back, I'm looking forward to Joss Whedon's run. Claremont had me curious. But these seven pages. Some will think it's great to see all those faces. I just felt overwhelmed by lots of people, jamming in front of the camera. While I know this was a way of introducing the characters and making it a hopping on point, it kind of felt forced to me. I'll hope that we get a better focus on individual characters after this 7 page whirlwind. I know it was a necessary evil...

But Morrison's gone. I loved his run. Now I'm looking forward to some of these new runs (Joss has got my excitement up the most). Here's hoping for that sense of magic I got when I was 15 and Phoenix died (the first time).

[blue13]

Originally posted by Mister Sinister
Yeah, people bash Claremont, but the man darn near created the entire X-Universe. Without him Morrison would not have had an X-Universe to play with. Not every story line that Claremont has written in the X-Universe has been a huge hit, but the man has written thousands of stories, you think this is easy, try it. Claremont's good stories dwarf his bad ones. People must think that it is easy to write stories that top stories that top stories etc..... Not a one of we message board posters could even come close to writing as well as Claremont, therefore have no grounds to insult the man. You have the right not to buy his comics, but not to insult his writing talents.

just like claremont fleshed out stan lee's stories and characters, morrison did the same and updated claremont's stories.

if RCA didn't invent the color TV, some other company would have.

claremont gets the credit for being there first.

but that doesn't mean he gets a free pass for later. it's not ok to write mediocre or bad stories just because you did some good stuff before.

when that happens, it's not time to keep churning out crap, it's time to quit.

[Hdefined]

Originally posted by Fetsur
The art looks great, it all looks fun and intriguing.

But it isn't really going anywhere... I don't care for the baseball... and WHY OH WHY have they brought back the ALL-UPPERCASE lettering? :confused:

Bill Jemas? Is that you?

[Bytor-Snowdog]

Wow, it's finally happened...hopefully. Marvel may have rediscovered what made people actually feel good reading comics...a sense of family, friendship, and fun along with the action. Doom, gloom, edge, and attitude are a nice respite, but it's a place you wanna visit, not live in. Can it be true, are we almost home again? ;)

[Hdefined]

Originally posted by Mike Marts
Hey all,

Just for the record, "Jay" is Sam's nickname for his younger brother. Short for "Josh".

Thanks for reading. Glad to see most of you are excited for the new direction this May.

Mike Marts
X-Editor

Might as well print that in the book when it ships, because a lot of people out there are going to be asking "wtf, isn't his name Josh?" and blame editing errors. Or - here's an idea - just change the name to Josh!

[Earth-2 Mike]

Who is that at bat on page 1? Is that Amanda Sefton?

And why does she say she'll banish Nightcrawler to his father's dimension? Did I miss something? (I bet I have, the only X-Men I've picked up in the last 7 years have been New X-Men tpb's # 1-5)

[Hdefined]

Originally posted by Bagheera
Yeah, don't expect a 'retro' feel to the X-Men now that Claremont's on board. He's taken the X-People in more directions than anyone else could have dreamt...

Wolverine in Madripoor? His idea.
X-Men 'dying' in Dallas and moving to Australia? His idea.
The formation of The New Mutants? His idea.
The formation of Excalibur? His idea.
Turning Kitty Pryde into a 'demon' ninja? His idea.
A concentration camp in Magneto's past? His idea.
Showing Logan to be more than 100 years old? His idea.
Making Sabretooth the archnemesis of Wolverine? His idea.
Magneto heading up Xavier's Institute? His idea.
Logan's depiction as a 'failed samurai?' His idea.
The Phoenix force? His idea.
The networking shades used by the X-Treme team? His idea.
Sage shown to be an agent of Xavier? His idea.
Hell, the Hellfire Club? His idea.
The creation of almost every mutant in the Marvel Universe? His ideas.

And for the love of God, don't bring up Claremont's last run on Uncanny and X-Men. He was saddled with some f*cked-up continuity and at least two crossovers.


You have to be kidding. Let's continue your line of thought . . .

The Neo? His idea
The Twisted Sisters? His idea
Rogue absorbing and keeping multiple powers? His idea
The Whatever Pirates? His idea
Sage joining the X-Men? His idea
Gambit and Rogue leading the teams? His idea
X-Men fighting X-Men? His idea

His last run was downright AWFUL. You can't blame the editors for The Neo. Ugh

[IcemanXtreme]

Originally posted by zeraze
[QUOTE]Originally posted by scan2001
People you have to stop crying about Austen. You know he isn't going away any time soon.

Well, Marvel has kicked Austen off Exiles (see my earlier post) and Avengers so it looks like his departure will be sooner rather than later. (Thank God. Exiles will finally have a great writer again with the appointment of Tony Bedard.)

zeraze

Chuck was never ON exiles. He did a few fill in stories. King Hyperion was amazing in my opinion actually and Blink in time has been solid so far. I guess this is the usual any reason to bad mouth a man I dont know. Get over it, you dont like his writing style dont read his issues. THEY WERE FILL IN ARCS. stop crying and wise up.:rolleyes:

[William Coate]

Originally posted by Chris
... now if only Beast could go back to his previous form...


Chris

Why don't they make him look like Hobbes from Calvin and Hobbes? That way they can create a stuffed animal out of him!!!:D

You guy's are so funny!!!

Beast?!?! What the F*** is Beast anyway? A beast?

Maybe they should make him look like a full on lion and he starts roaring when he's pissed. Or even better when someone says "BY THE POWER OF GREY SKULL" he turns really big and Cyclops can mount him and go into battle!!! :D

You guys want the same old sh**! Don't you ever get tired of it?

I remember reading a Morrison interview that there are only a few specific things you can do with the X-Men. Some people like wraith view them as retreads. These are the concepts best applied to the X-Men. I am thankful that Morrison was able to get to the heart of it and allow the sh** to hit the fan bringing these concepts to the forefront in a really exciting and interesting way.

You can't really expect anything new from the X-Men because maybe it's all been done.

At least we have X3 to look forward to!

William Coate

[beta-ray]

Originally posted by Mike Marts
Hey all,

Just for the record, "Jay" is Sam's nickname for his younger brother. Short for "Josh".

Thanks for reading. Glad to see most of you are excited for the new direction this May.

Mike Marts
X-Editor

Oh. For some reason I thought maybe "Jay" would be his mutant callname... "Jay" like a bird. Oh wells.

[beta-ray]

Originally posted by William Coate
You guy's are so funny!!!

Beast?!?! What the F*** is Beast anyway? A beast?

Maybe they should make him look like a full on lion and he starts roaring when he's pissed. Or even better when someone says "BY THE POWER OF GREY SKULL" he turns really big and Cyclops can mount him and go into battle!!! :D


I have no idea what you are getting at. A Beast can look like many different things. I preferred his older look. Less locked into one type of beast (cat). Again, not sure what point you are trying to make here. That it could be worse?

You guys want the same old sh**! Don't you ever get tired of it?

William Coate

*shrug* Get tired of the whining and negativity, but that is old hat too.

[metr0man]

Hey wait a second...

Did I see the word "Frelling" in there!?!?

Chris is a fan of FARSCAPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Godfather]

Alan Davis is a fantastic artist. Love it.

[LD18]

Originally posted by DaReekstah
You're telling me you stayed through Austen's run, but are going to drop it the minute a dynamic duo like Claremont/Davis gets on?!

Oy vey.

Ya, i stuck around for Austen's run. I'm a sucker for the Juggernaut. Austen has had his good and VERY bad moments on the book ( Draco...Uggh, She lies with Angels...Uggh) but to his credit he seemed to wrap up his storylines fairly well. I'm still reeling from Claremonts stories with Neo/Goth and i believe it was Crimson pirates and the Seadogs or something from a few years back.
I believe the answer for replacing ( or in this case shifting) Austen off Uncanny sure as heck aint Claremont and that he was best served on a book like X-Treme for his hard core fans. So i will be checking out X-men and Astonishing but with my apologies to Mr.Davis, Uncanny gets my axe.

P.S. Hey Marvel, the costumes are a bad idea!!!!

[Fusion]

Originally posted by zeraze
[QUOTE]Originally posted by scan2001
People you have to stop crying about Austen. You know he isn't going away any time soon.

Well, Marvel has kicked Austen off Exiles (see my earlier post) and Avengers so it looks like his departure will be sooner rather than later. (Thank God. Exiles will finally have a great writer again with the appointment of Tony Bedard.)

zeraze

Keep Dreaming. You haven't been able to remove him from comics this far, and I don't think Austen Bashers will anytime soon. :D

[Space Canuck]

Oh yes, this looks great!! I think in this age of a million X-titles, there is room for everyone's favourite version of the X-Men to exist simultaneously.

Space Canuck

[Justice Daye]

I don't understand how GM's run was foward thinking or better than this. His run was a deconstruction of the x-men, using old plots and such repeatedly. His run played heavily to themes and concepts though not so much to plots and characters. His run was a huge rehash (which is all the x-men will ever be since they're properties. A static image is worth money for marvel).

Remember, how he wanted to kill Rogue and create someone named Rogue with her powers?

Nova was the same a Onslaught, a representation of another side to Xavier.

Magneto's "last" story???
Another Phoenix story????
Another evil twin???
Another space war story????
Another evil future story???

All of it was Grant Morrison Sings The Songs of Chris Claremont. Regardless of what concepts CC introduced that were bad, GM still greatly grifted CC's orignal stories(which to a certain degree were original then. This is all okay if you liked it though the only progressive moving stories were E, Germ-Free, and possibly Riot. I mean progressive in terms of moving the x-men foward, not a genre or a medium.This is all well and good if you like "new takes", instead of new stories based on new ideas. What's not okay is this seeming thinking that comics as a medium don't need diverse stories, but only GM's type of stories. The medium needs DIVERSITY and VISIBILITY above all else. The fact that some of us seem to think GM's run was fantastic and all else is tripe is a bit close-minded. I, personally, love Ellis as much as Claremont and Moore as much as Casey and even Busiek as much as Salinger ("Catcher In The Rye"). I love them because they're all diferent and all give me something that no one story could and certainly that GM couldn't hope to, given how he lacks immersive, detailed stories. There should be room in this business for different genres, styles, and writers. Kinda pathetic if you can't see that, really.

And how is this the return of the 90's? While all stories weren't necessarily bad, it was static which this isn't. Because of the costumes? Like people would actually wear black leather(they'd die of heat stroke) or spandex(they'd be very unprotected against the elements). Spandex is more practical than the leather, but if GM was really foward thinking, the x-men would've dressed like the Wildcats currently are.

I'd say, forget about CC's bad stories (which was actually the cause of the scrambling to take advantage of X1 which lead to incomplete stories). What's important is that he's been writing great stories since at least X-Treme #19. If you didn't read the series past the first couple of issues, than you can't really talk can you (in case you're curious GMLK2 was ed. mandate. It was that or have Austen make Stryker the head of the Church of Humanity in his horrible story)? Claremont is purposely writing a nostalgic story. Why is that bad? Why should there only be one kind of x-story? And for future reference, the x-men have played baseball once this decade, 3-4 times in the 90's, and 2-3 times in the 80's (nice to know where you can get this kind of quirky, goofy savant knowledge). Doesn't seem like alot to me and since people still play the game, I don't see how it's old hat. I personally despised GM's heartless, hopeless x-men and I welcome the return to something much more realistic.

Am I the only who noticed how great the dialogue was? It natural and original. Also, the text have been toned down since X-Treme 10 and even now there usually weren't more than 3 per page at 3 sentances per box.

[William Coate]

Originally posted by beta-ray
I have no idea what you are getting at. A Beast can look like many different things. I preferred his older look. Less locked into one type of beast (cat). Again, not sure what point you are trying to make here. That it could be worse?



*shrug* Get tired of the whining and negativity, but that is old hat too.

Do you mean the wining a complaining about whether Beast should look a certain way or the whining and complaining about getting stories that are progressive rather than regressive?

Things change. Beast is what he is and he should stay that way. There is NO way out of his new mutant transformation. It's the way he is!!! GET OVER IT!!!

CHANGE IS GOOD!

COMICS are about adventure are trying new things. It's not about a bunch of people in SPANDEX playing baseball. But I guess that's what you like. Maybe you guys should read Alan Davis's Excalibur run. Talk about adventure.

Instead of back to the basics it's back to the Bullsh**!

Get real! I still think, though, that Beast should transform when someone says "BY THE POWER OF GREY SKULL" because at least it will be different!

William Coate

[William Coate]

Originally posted by Justice Daye
I don't understand how GM's run was foward thinking or better than this. His run was a deconstruction of the x-men, using old plots and such repeatedly. His run played heavily to themes and concepts though not so much to plots and characters. His run was a huge rehash.

Grant Morrison brought the important elements of X-Men and recreated them. He brought forth a realism that no one has in a very long time. At the same time the situations and stories were far more dynamic and exciting. The 90s got really redundant after a while. And I actually USED to like that stuff. GIVE ME A BREAK!


I welcome the return to something much more realistic.


This is funny. What is real about the X-Men? The practical SPANDEX or the COOL leather?

THERE IS NOTHING PRACTICAL ABOUT SPANDEX!

I suppose if you want to see Wolverine with a wedgie that's your problem.

GET REAL!!!

[Justice Daye]

I actually his run wasn't realistic at all. It was full of things that in ANY other story wouldn't be realistic at all. Someone on another board called it "surrealistic" and described it as taking the x-men sideways instead of forward. I think this is much better. X-Treme while the dialogue became the most realistic book, not always, but mostly because it became very grounded after awhile. GM's x-stories left the ground during Imperial. Riot was beginning to ground it again but that changed with Assualt.

Emma and Cyke have to many problems as people to be a couple. Problems which GM brought up and ignored.
Regardless of what GM wanted, he doomed the relationship from the start by not even broaching these questions because everytime Scott dives into something new ater Jean dies, it's forgotten about when she gets back. And GM wanted to push this on us so quickly that he didn't consider, and neither have many fans, that this looks to be Scoot just falling into old habits. But, since GM didn't show it grow and mature, it came off as the same thing Scott does everytime Jean dies... "move on" with Lee, Maddie, and many others. Nothing makes this any different. Scott didn't even show an attraction to Emma until Jean told him to.

His first love, best friend, and teenage sweetheart..died. It'll take more than a kiss to take the pain of such an event. It's also irrational to believe that Poccy's control scarred Cyke so that deeply that he can't be intimate (in any way) with Jean, but he can with Emma. Either she solved his problem with Apocalypse influence or he only had a problem with Jean and Poccy really didn't affect him much. Both these are fairly idiotic given that his problems are supposed to deep and this would make them superficial.

And for Cyke, he's relatively an alcoholic who has admitted that he has a problem, but taken no steps to cure himself of the disease.

A woman who has never had an honest, open, trusting relationship with anyone (and anyone she did is dead) and with huge emotional issues is just going to fall in love and live happily ever after without problems? I'd doubt she'd even be able to approach any man she was actually attracted to because she's likely be an introvert about such.
A guy who's wife and teenage sweetheart just died (she isn't even cold in the ground) after he was possessed by some all-knowing great evil, who went to someone for help who only made his situation worse, who still has alot of self-hatred and self-doubt is simply going to have a serious relationship that is real.

In reality, they wouldn't last a month and probably wouldn't get together at all. It's not that I think Scott and Jean were perfect because they weren't. I think they stuck it out or so long because they were "safe" familiar bets for each other and they did at least genuinely care about each other. Emma and Scoot (that's what I said) have problems that need therapy and pills, that won't be solved with a long talk, some coffee, and a goodnight kiss. These people are seriously disturbed, way too much to start or maintain a serious relationship saying as sexual and serious relationship are rooted deeply in both of their psychoses. And I don't see how anyone, fanboy or writer, can ignore these problems. Besides, since GM never really brought resolved them, these questions would be great story material. You said all the times that Jean died, Scott jumped straight into another relationship? Then, what did he just do with Emma?

Regardless of what GM wanted, he doomed the relationship from the start by not even broaching these questions because everytime Scott dives into something new after Jean dies, it's forgotten about when she gets back. GM wanted to push this on us so quickly that he didn't consider, and neither have many fans, that this looks to be Scott just falling into old habits.
This isn't realistic and barely cohesive.

The reactions weren't realistic at all. Scott going to Emma? I've never gone to a rival or enemy for advice.
And they acted like they were always depressed. There is a range of human emotions and NXM only showed two: anger and sadness. That is not realistic. Even given how hopeless the situation was at times, it wasn't like that always during GM's run and the x-men were still downers. They were in a spiral of self-destruction at times and it turned into a cycle. This is not realistic. The only happy or should I say, well-adjusted person in the book was Beast, while everyone else hated themselves and everyone else. Then during Planet X, Scott, Jean, Emma, and Xavier jgot over of-panel for the most part. That is not realistic. You may like it and it may be interesting, but it doesn't happen in the real world.

And considering, spandex is actually much more practical. You can move around and react quicker in it than heavy leather unless you're Iceman or Storm who can control their body temps. Leather is hot and since you have to move and jump around alot as an x-man, it's not practical because it's well...hot and heavy. And by that same token, it's not protective in winter conditions. However, as I said neither is spandex, but it is light and easy to move around in and therefore, more practical. Leather isn't COOL at all. Neo and the gang stood out like sore thumbs in the matrix. They looked like idiots. Both spandex and leather are extremes. You can't hate one for being what they both are. Spandex is obviously more practical, and that's the only reason I'd pick one over the other. I'd much prefer a mixture of the two or business casual clothing as in Wildcats.

And for anyone paying attention, the end of GM's run subverted everything it was about. Read the last three arcs. He basically says that "the way" shown here, what the x-men have become is wrong. Magneto proved to Charles that what he had become, what he let the x-men become, and what direction they were heading was wrong. That direction led to Magneto It lead to Sublime. It lead to the death and destruction of the dream and the dreamers.

[agent dumbass]

I would have thought there was nothing in the world that could get me reading 'uncanny x-men' again. But no, each time I get out, they keep pulling me back in....

....damn Chris Claremont and Alan Davis!

I feel like a 13-year old fanboy again. Very excited!

[Janin]

Ahh ... the good ol' days of mutant baseball! :D

[Cray_ws]

I couldn't help but to laugh, this is best selling title in this industry? what a crock. X-Men franchise is more nostalgic than any recent toy/cartoon property. FromTransformers, GIJoe, Thundercats, to Ghostbusters.

I'm not saying Claremont/Alan Davis is reason either, Nor Morrison... The X-Men are a nostalgical Shitpond . It doesn't matter who's writing them or doing the art.

Half of you have no idea what your reading, your just tagging along with whatever Marvel feeds you. I'm not insulting your intelligence by saying that. I'm asking you why the hell is X-Men which is without a doubt is retreaded and convoluted and seriously fucked up property the best selling comic? Even the biggest X-fan will admit there's better books out there. But why oh why is this book the par for a great seller?

This book should be dead, sacked , canceled as of yesterday of the future's past, and has already been pillaged beyond belief, its a wonder how it remains to be a top seller. Its totally idiotic to have this on a your "pull list". Stupidist thing you can do is give away your buying power to a publisher instead of forcing them to earn your money. Reserving a copy of retreaded shit is dumb and this industry is never gonna grow because of the X-Men.

You seen this baseball stuff before, You've read hundreds of issues of Claremont/ and Davis. Yes these are talented people but pick up a better comic. Something like Queen & Country, Negation War, or try a different genre like historical fiction like Age of Bronze, how about a Artesia recently awarded 2003 Graphic Novel Book of the Year Award finalist for ForeWord Magazine.

Please pick up something new because after Claremont/Davis are done reloading then is back to same old shit and they reload or retool or re this or fine tune that....and add dozen different X-related books and cancel ones that are not top sellers. This gets old.

How many of you want to see Sylvester Stallone do another Rocky movie and have him jog around to "Eye the Tiger music but this time he's in New York? How about the the return of the Jackson 5 or New Kids on the Block? Other forms of entertainment are always evolving and changing. There's never the same top seller more than few weeks or months. and the Bar is always changing as far as sales and what is considered decent movie, music, novel, TV show. X-Men is crap and the bar hasn't been raised in ages, the last book that effected the market was Spawn, because it wasn't a Marvel or DC book and it remained a top seller for quite long time, but it got old too, which is ok because its ok to find new things to read. Comics must change or die .

[orpheus]

Originally posted by El Dandy
For someone who obviously doesn't like Claremont at all, you seem to know all about his writing quirks of the past. And you've taken the time to read all of the pages so you could give your 2 cents.

That tells me you either used to be a fan of his, or you just want to spawn some of that crap you were talking about, and this is your only outlet.

How sad.

Presumably this makes me sad as well, since I am a long-standing X-Men fan who grew up with Claremont's classic run. unfortunately, as time went on and tastes matured, I found that I had outgrown his writing style and so had, in my opinion, the W-Men.

How is it sad to read others' opinions before stating your own? Is this not the way that one arrives at a reasoned viewpoint?

I know who I think is the real sad person here.

[orpheus]

Originally posted by Mike Marts
Hey all,

Just for the record, "Jay" is Sam's nickname for his younger brother. Short for "Josh".

Thanks for reading. Glad to see most of you are excited for the new direction this May.

Mike Marts
X-Editor

Jay is short for Josh. Jeez, how lazy are the Guthrie clan? Josh is only one bloody syllable long.

[DerekSykes]

Originally posted by Baron Zemo
I love classic X-Men, but I love Grant's work too. I believe the X-books have to move forward. This isn't forward; it is nostalgia. Nostalgia is fine, but this whole reload stinks of it. I would like some forward monentum to these books. We need good stories not thowbacks to the good old days.

PS I love the Beast's new look. He was just a furry blue guy. Now he is a real beast. You can always go back and read old stories featuring his classic look. Of course, I do like the prospect of Beast on the Avengers. I like the dynamic he has with that group, but he can stay with the X-Men as long as he has something good to do.

Totally agree on all points. Having said that, Alan Davis's art demands my attention curse him.

Derek

[OcCaM]

Originally posted by IcemanXtreme
Chuck was never ON exiles. He did a few fill in stories. King Hyperion was amazing in my opinion actually and Blink in time has been solid so far. I guess this is the usual any reason to bad mouth a man I dont know. Get over it, you dont like his writing style dont read his issues. THEY WERE FILL IN ARCS. stop crying and wise up.:rolleyes:

The man wrote at least 11 horrendous issues of Exiles that I know of. By most of today's creators standards that ain't no fill-in that's a regular run.

Hell his supposed "regular" run of Avengers is only one 5 issue arc and another 3 issue arc right? That's less than his supposed fill-in.

Far as I'm concerned that Howard Mackie of a writer needs to go pronto!

I'm just thankful that his run fit in between volumes 4 and 6 of the trades and again between 6 and 8 (presumably that will be the first Tony Bedard trade) so I could easily just scan and quick read to get any revlevant info. hold back the vomit and save a few $$$!

It brings tears to my eyes to know that good trees and great quality paper is being used to waste on that man's writing! Least if they were using the toilet paper that DC uses for its trades it wouldn't be so horrific of a crime!

Well, least Austen is soon to be just on X-Men and a Super-Man title, stuff I can easily live without!

[orpheus]

ROFLMAO

Slightly off topic, but not by much. I just noticed that Claremont's triumphant return is called Reload, and his last big comeback was called Revolution.

Why oh why is he getting rid of the leather?

[OcCaM]

Originally posted by Cray_ws
I couldn't help but to laugh, this is best selling title in this industry? what a crock. X-Men franchise is more nostalgic than any recent toy/cartoon property. FromTransformers, GIJoe, Thundercats, to Ghostbusters.

I'm not saying Claremont/Alan Davis is reason either, Nor Morrison... The X-Men are a nostalgical Shitpond . It doesn't matter who's writing them or doing the art.

[EDITED FOR LENGTH]

How many of you want to see Sylvester Stallone do another Rocky movie and have him jog around to "Eye the Tiger music but this time he's in New York? How about the the return of the Jackson 5 or New Kids on the Block? Other forms of entertainment are always evolving and changing. There's never the same top seller more than few weeks or months. and the Bar is always changing as far as sales and what is considered decent movie, music, novel, TV show. X-Men is crap and the bar hasn't been raised in ages, the last book that effected the market was Spawn, because it wasn't a Marvel or DC book and it remained a top seller for quite long time, but it got old too, which is ok because its ok to find new things to read. Comics must change or die .

I hear what you are saying, but it's going to fall on deaf ears mostly. People like their bad habits. We all have them!

I was collecting this bad habit for around 30 years (sad I know) except for a few years break back in high school. The only thing that drove me away was the Casey/Morrison's run. I just looked at this tripe and said, "what new stuff?" I guess I realized it'd probably been a decade since I really enjoyed the X-Men and was just buying it on auto!

That's pretty sad too! So, it's not as if Morrison's run was pretty bad, it was no worse a re-hash of what had gone before then with Lobdell and all the predecessors. I just grew tired of it. After a few years of not having done more than skim this at the racks I realize that having broken the habit, there's nothing exciting here for me anymore!

Than, I read stuff like Age of Bronze (great recommendation btw. shame I saw the first trade go for $2.50 on e-bay, people wouldn't know a good story if it bit them on the a$$!) and realize how much more interesting stuff there is out there.

Anyway, bad habits are hard to break and most of these people here would never admit that's all it is!

I can't imagine why anyone else would actually admit to liking Austen's writing, unless they are totally retarded errr addicted to a particular comic.

[I refuse to believe there are actually people who follow Austen based on the strength of his name and writing alone! *shudder* That's the worst image I've ever had to think about! Zombies screaming, "Austen we want Austen"]

[Adam Strange]

Originally posted by Somebody
</center>But is there any way we could get a legible version of this page?

http://www.newsarama.com/Marvel/Uncanny444_4.jpg
Do you have the "Enable Automatic Image Resizing" checked under Internet Options?

[Adam Strange]

Originally posted by Earth-2 Mike
Who is that at bat on page 1? Is that Amanda Sefton?

And why does she say she'll banish Nightcrawler to his father's dimension? Did I miss something? (I bet I have, the only X-Men I've picked up in the last 7 years have been New X-Men tpb's # 1-5)
I thought that they said that it was Emma Frost on one of the later pages. the banishing remark threw me too but I just figured that it was her making a joke.

[El Dandy]

Originally posted by orpheus
Presumably this makes me sad as well, since I am a long-standing X-Men fan who grew up with Claremont's classic run. unfortunately, as time went on and tastes matured, I found that I had outgrown his writing style and so had, in my opinion, the W-Men.

How is it sad to read others' opinions before stating your own? Is this not the way that one arrives at a reasoned viewpoint?

I know who I think is the real sad person here.

If you would have read a little more of this thread, you would see my original post and opinion at the top of page 2. Fourth post down on the page.

Now we've all got opinions about this - either good or bad. But the people that are sad are the ones that stick around in a thread just to take a stab at what someone else says. If you blatantly just throw around attitude because you like to stir the pot, or because you're no longer a fan, or because you're just an ass, then go read a different thread. I certainly don't need you bringing the rest of us down.

[El Dandy]

Originally posted by orpheus
I found that I had outgrown his writing style and so had, in my opinion, the W-Men.

By the way, who the hell are the W-Men?

[comicreader666]

>>>You seen this baseball stuff before, You've read hundreds of issues of Claremont/ and Davis. Yes these are talented people but pick up a better comic. Something like Queen & Country, Negation War, or try a different genre like historical fiction like Age of Bronze, how about a Artesia recently awarded 2003 Graphic Novel Book of the Year Award finalist for ForeWord Magazine.


wtf, you know, you start off saying your not trying to insult anyone and then turn around and just freaking assume that noone that buys the x-men, and actually _likes_ it, also doesn't buy any of the books that you mention. christ, you act like all the people that are excited about the x-men apparently buy all the x-men titles every month and piss all over the good books that you list. and then you come in with that assumption and piss all over everyone on this thread that's actually excited by something cool happening with the x-men.

it's people like you that i'd love to look at your back issue collection. i guarentee that you wouldn't have even ever had the chance to read queen and country if you didn't cut your teeth on claremont and byrne back in the day, keeping you in the comics fold.

not to mention that the comics industry these days would be _NOWHERE_ without what those guys (and others of the time, f. miller, a. moore, etc etc etc) did to make you enjoy it back in the day.

what you see at convuluted and fucked up, is to a lot of people a frun read. i wouldn't enjoy it as much without as much history.

OH NO!!!!! i have to actually think about something that happened 5 years ago?? or ten years ago?? omygod the world is coming to an end!!!!!!!! i still find a lot of x-men stories don't require an extensive history knowledge to enjoy, it helps on some more than others.

sorry, just pisses me off when snobs come in here and trample over things like the x-men because it doesn't fit "their" image of what a comic book should be and then just assume that all these people reading the x-men apparently DON'T READ ANYTHING ELSE.

i read lots of books a month, primarily marvel, two or three dc, and lots of indies, and know quite a few people that do the same.

not to mention the fact that your local comic shop wouldn't be able to sell age of bronze if they didn't have the income from the x-men, so you really should be paying thanks that someone is reading these books that you don't like so your local store can stay in business.

cause as much i'd like it to be true, if the market was soley independent driven at this point, it wouldn't not survive.

[comicreader666]

"it wouldn't not survive."

whoops, double negative on my part!! i think you get what i mean though.

[Device]

Originally posted by Fetsur
WHY OH WHY have they brought back the ALL-UPPERCASE lettering? :confused:

Cause Marvel is basically going to give you the EXACT same comics as they did 10 years ago.

[dgmagill]

Originally posted by William Coate
COMICS are about adventure are trying new things. It's not about a bunch of people in SPANDEX playing baseball. I don't see ANY spandex in the baseball scene - almost everyone is wearing regular clothes or baseball uniforms.

William, we get it. You don't like this version of the X-Men, thinking that it is a rehash. Fine. Allow those of us who like it (and, as I said before, I liked the Morrison issues, for the most part) to enjoy it. Vote with your wallet and find something else to buy.

DGM

[J.C. Bakken]

Originally posted by Hdefined
You have to be kidding. Let's continue your line of thought . . .

1. The Neo? His idea
2. The Twisted Sisters? His idea
3. Rogue absorbing and keeping multiple powers? His idea
4. The Whatever Pirates? His idea
5. Sage joining the X-Men? His idea
6. Gambit and Rogue leading the teams? His idea
7. X-Men fighting X-Men? His idea

His last run was downright AWFUL. You can't blame the editors for The Neo. Ugh

1, 2 and 4. His idea, but he also wanted to flesh it out more over time. And not getting allowed to that? Mark Powers' idea.

3, 5-7: Bad ideas? Not in my opinion.

[Hdefined]

Originally posted by J.C. Bakken
1, 2 and 4. His idea, but he also wanted to flesh it out more over time. And not getting allowed to that? Mark Powers' idea.


Mark Powers did something right.

[gwangung]

Originally posted by dgmagill
I don't see ANY spandex in the baseball scene - almost everyone is wearing regular clothes or baseball uniforms.

William, we get it. You don't like this version of the X-Men, thinking that it is a rehash. Fine. Allow those of us who like it (and, as I said before, I liked the Morrison issues, for the most part) to enjoy it. Vote with your wallet and find something else to buy.

DGM

Can't. Part of the fanboy condition is intolerance to variation.

[J.C. Bakken]

Originally posted by Hdefined
Mark Powers did something right.

Well, then it's just the case of you severly not liking Claremont, cause saying that Powers did something right is not something you here everyday.

[kalorama]

I'd be hard pressed to care less about the X-Men, but I will buy pretty much anything Alan Davis draws.

[GOSD]

Originally posted by blue13
do you even know buckley and/or jemas?

or is it a popular pastime to bash jemas?

i mean, i don't make any comments because i know nothing about "behind-the-scenes" stuff.

but during jemas' tenure, lots of good things happened. the "ultimate" titles...morrison on x-men...no more unnecessary miniseries featuring stars like gambit and bishop, etc.

No.

Jemas sucked and most of us are happy he's been forced to shuffle papers like a good bean counter.

Ok, noobie?

[Vector]

Originally posted by Hdefined
You have to be kidding. Let's continue your line of thought . . .

The Neo? His idea
The Twisted Sisters? His idea
Rogue absorbing and keeping multiple powers? His idea
The Whatever Pirates? His idea
Sage joining the X-Men? His idea
Gambit and Rogue leading the teams? His idea
X-Men fighting X-Men? His idea


3,5,6,7 - Good ideas. Five especially. Great 'new' character.

[KSChris]

Originally posted by Device
Cause Marvel is basically going to give you the EXACT same comics as they did 10 years ago.

Yeah, man. UPPER-CASE lettering is the harbringer of doom for all X-Men fans! Its the end of the world! Rehasing of old stories-galore! :rolleyes:

... right.

[Cray_ws]

Originally posted by comicreader666
wtf, you know, you start off saying your not trying to insult anyone and then turn around and just freaking assume that noone that buys the x-men, and actually _likes_ it, also doesn't buy any of the books that you mention. christ, you act like all the people that are excited about the x-men apparently buy all the x-men titles every month and piss all over the good books that you list. and then you come in with that assumption and piss all over everyone on this thread that's actually excited by something cool happening with the x-men. Your putting words in my mouth, only thing I assumed is a majority of comic readers have blinders on and buying the X-Men out of habit. Practically giving Marvel a free trip to your wallet.

it's people like you that i'd love to look at your back issue collection. i guarentee that you wouldn't have even ever had the chance to read queen and country if you didn't cut your teeth on claremont and byrne back in the day, keeping you in the comics fold. I no longer have much of a back issue collection, I used to have 12 long boxes of comics that I accumulated since 92'. I've switched from monthlies to trade and I have only read few of Byrne's stuff, I'm familiar with Claremont from the initial X-Men books I bought when Jim Lee was on the book. I quit X-Men after the Age of Apocolypse storyline. I quickly realized I was being taken for a ride and it was a costly lesson to learn. Nowadays my colllection consist of trades and hardcovers on bookshelves along with my favorite novels. I do have few monthly books saved, mostly a collection sentimental issues in a shoe box.

not to mention that the comics industry these days would be _NOWHERE_ without what those guys (and others of the time, f. miller, a. moore, etc etc etc) did to make you enjoy it back in the day.Just because these talented folks do comics does not mean I need to revere them and owe them any undue respect. These are normal people doing there jobs they enjoy, not messiahs or idols to worship. The name Claremont is obviously common knowledge among comic readers, but many have different opinions about his work, all respect that fact that he's shown longevity with the X-Men. If there wasn't any such book I'm sure he'd be writing something else.


what you see at convuluted and fucked up, is to a lot of people a frun read. i wouldn't enjoy it as much without as much history. This isn't a debate, The property is fucked up and not even remotely linear continuity-wise. There's no way you look at me with straight face and tell me that X-Men are NOT a convulted mess. How you can enjoy that is beyond me because you gotta be blind to see your reading redundant stuff.


OH NO!!!!! i have to actually think about something that happened 5 years ago?? or ten years ago?? omygod the world is coming to an end!!!!!!!! i still find a lot of x-men stories don't require an extensive history knowledge to enjoy, it helps on some more than others. I have no complaint against books with continuity or long histories. If you wanna compare storylines, most them are bland and go nowhere, Everything eventually goes to status quo. There's no such thing is "All new and All Different" or "Major changes that will effect the X-Men forever"

sorry, just pisses me off when snobs come in here and trample over things like the x-men because it doesn't fit "their" image of what a comic book should be and then just assume that all these people reading the x-men apparently DON'T READ ANYTHING ELSE. I'm not making this out to a classwar of Indy readers vs Superheroes fanboys. There's alot shitty indepent books too that don't even deserve shelf space. I'm not complaining about those because its not hogging the market. X-Men have fuckin hold on top selling list like vise and is very poor example of what should be the best selling comic. I'm advocating vareity, I want people to pick up the next hot book instead of sticking with a nostalgical Shitpond.

i read lots of books a month, primarily marvel, two or three dc, and lots of indies, and know quite a few people that do the same. And I bet Alot those books are same books you been buying for years out of habit.

not to mention the fact that your local comic shop wouldn't be able to sell age of bronze if they didn't have the income from the x-men, so you really should be paying thanks that someone is reading these books that you don't like so your local store can stay in business.

cause as much i'd like it to be true, if the market was soley independent driven at this point, it wouldn't not survive. So if I run a shop with no X-Men then what do you supose my best seller would be? probably one the 4 Superman, Batman or Spider-man titles. Based on your theory above that people buy more than just X-men every month then there's no problem filling the void.

These heavily franchised books weren't around 30yrs ago and there were less independents than there are now. The problem today is the lack of variety and the unmoveble foothold these franchise books have. There's never gonna be any real change in the industry unless we get rid of the glut.

[KingStalin]

Originally posted by Cray_ws
So if I run a shop with no X-Men then what do you supose my best seller would be? probably one the 4 Superman, Batman or Spider-man titles. Based on your theory above that people buy more than just X-men every month then there's no problem filling the void.

These heavily franchised books weren't around 30yrs ago and there were less independents than there are now. The problem today is the lack of variety and the unmoveble foothold these franchise books have. There's never gonna be any real change in the industry unless we get rid of the glut.

Now tell me if I'm out of line here, BUT, I could care less if there is any change in the industry. I believe comis have been defeated by DVD, Videogames, and the internet. Will some people always buy them? Yup. I'm noit sure about you but I love the x-Men they got me into superhero comics. Convolted? Retreads? I don't care. As long as I enjoy what's going on in the books I buy them.

Guess what? You talk about comcis neeidng diffenrt genres and what not. Well I don't like most other genres in comic form. Blade works well on film, yet his comic keeps getting cancelled. I love Law and Order and CSI but the onyl crime comic oI like is Powers. To me comics are the home of heroes, vilians, and outrageous situations. I don't want realism or grim and gritty real life stuff. I watch CNN for that and I live in that world. Uncanny is going to be aweosme to me because the down issues are my favorite, especially the Sports issues (remember the team playing football when Jean propsed to Scott?) I guess that's just my taste.

Sorry for any spelling or Grammar mistakes I'm tired as fuck and have a party to plan tomorrow.

[Roguestorm]

Originally posted by KyleV

Those, what, three issues back in the 90's when Scott lusted after Betsy? THAT had lasting impact, didn't it?





it may not have had a lasting impact but it has been done and both times it was equally cheesy and made both emma and betsy look like grade A whores,while jean mother of virginity kept her dignity.

[BuckySinister]

Originally posted by Justice Daye
Emma and Cyke have to many problems as people to be a couple. Problems which GM brought up and ignored.
Regardless of what GM wanted, he doomed the relationship from the start by not even broaching these questions because everytime Scott dives into something new ater Jean dies, it's forgotten about when she gets back. And GM wanted to push this on us so quickly that he didn't consider, and neither have many fans, that this looks to be Scoot just falling into old habits. But, since GM didn't show it grow and mature, it came off as the same thing Scott does everytime Jean dies... "move on" with Lee, Maddie, and many others. Nothing makes this any different. Scott didn't even show an attraction to Emma until Jean told him to.

His first love, best friend, and teenage sweetheart..died. It'll take more than a kiss to take the pain of such an event. It's also irrational to believe that Poccy's control scarred Cyke so that deeply that he can't be intimate (in any way) with Jean, but he can with Emma. Either she solved his problem with Apocalypse influence or he only had a problem with Jean and Poccy really didn't affect him much. Both these are fairly idiotic given that his problems are supposed to deep and this would make them superficial.

***[edit]***

The reactions weren't realistic at all. Scott going to Emma? I've never gone to a rival or enemy for advice.
And they acted like they were always depressed. There is a range of human emotions and NXM only showed two: anger and sadness. That is not realistic. Even given how hopeless the situation was at times, it wasn't like that always during GM's run and the x-men were still downers. They were in a spiral of self-destruction at times and it turned into a cycle. This is not realistic.

***[edit]***

And for anyone paying attention, the end of GM's run subverted everything it was about. Read the last three arcs. He basically says that "the way" shown here, what the x-men have become is wrong. Magneto proved to Charles that what he had become, what he let the x-men become, and what direction they were heading was wrong. That direction led to Magneto It lead to Sublime. It lead to the death and destruction of the dream and the dreamers.

I've edited your post for length. Hope you don't mind; I've tried to leave in everything I wanted to address. If anyone wants to read the whole thing, it's about halfway down page 4 of this thread.

I disagree with you rather strongly about the Scott/Emma relationship, and the lengths to which Morrison went to establish it. Scott's experience with Apocalypse left him with some serious questions about the dark side of his own personality, a side which he'd spent most of his life keeping under very tight control, but which apparently liked some of the things Apocalypse did while in control of his body. That's a very compelling conflict to me; we've all got that dark side within us, though few of us ever have to confront it in so ... epic a manner. But that's funnybooks for you.

At any rate, Scott became bored with Jean as he came to grips with his demons. He'd spent his whole life feeling emotionally constipated because of the nature of his super powers, and because of the responsibility he'd taken on at such a young age. He needed to give vent to the wild, uncontrollable things inside of him, and Emma was the perfect person for him to vent those things with. She's strong-willed and powerful, just like Jean. But unlike Jean, Emma's also terribly aggressive, and not at all concerned with the finer points of sexual morality.

Emma, for her part, initially seemed to have started the whole thing out of a desire to cause mischief, but that's a facade. She was attracted to him, but she didn't know how to deal with it. So she turned it into a sordid psychic affair. Luckily for her, Scott felt pretty much the same way. He wanted to remain faithful to Jean, but his attraction to Emma was too much. He wasn't going to her for marital advice; he was going to her for a good shag, something he didn't think Jean could give him anymore.

It was a dumb, "rebound" kind of relationship, the kind I've seen far too many people fall into over the years. But, as I've also seen happen from time to time, the relationship worked. Scott needs someone exciting and vivicious in his life, someone unconcerned with self-control. And Emma, having just had her prize pupils show her exactly how shallow she really is, needs someone with Scott's rock-solid dependability to show her how to be more. They complement each other, and make each other stronger people.

This relationship not only makes sense, it's the only path these two people can take that won't lead to ruin for themselves and everyone they care about. Because without Scott, Emma will spiral back into an ultimately meaningless existance. Without Emma, Scott will give in to despair. And without Scott, Xavier's Dream will die and pretty much all of society will come crashing down around their ears. He's the only one left who's strong enough to hold it together. Xavier's spirit's been crushed, Wolverine ultimately doesn't believe in the Dream, and Hank, much as we all love him, just doesn't have what it takes. They need Scott Summers.

That's why I also disagree with your point that the final story arc puts the thematic lie to everything that's come before. Sure, Magneto thinks that Xavier's wrong, and makes some pretty strong arguments to that end. And Xavier, ultimately, is too idealistic for his own good. His educational reforms sound nice, but ultimately don't work because too much freedom at too young an age can be a very bad thing.

But that hardly makes Magneto right on the whole. The X-Men don't cause upheaval and destruction. People like Magneto (and Cassandra Nova and Kid Omega) do that (even if they are only acting under the influence of a malignant strand of RNA). The X-Men merely react to the upheaval, and try to make sure that things don't fall completely apart. They're the "positive" evolutionary force that keeps the "negative" force of Sublime's aggressive genetic influence from bringing ruin to all. But somebody's got to be there to believe in the Dream. And, as I said above, that somebody is Scott. He's just lucky that Jean loves him enough to give him the push he needs to do the right thing. Because Scott chooses love over despair, the horrible future we read about won't happen. Which is just about the most powerful reinforcement of the Dream you could ask for.

I'm not making any of this up, or even reading between the lines all that much. It's all there, in the comics themselves. Hell, I'm paraphrasing actual dialogue for some of this. The Scott/Emma subplot is the main throughline of Morrison's entire run on the book, something that's been discussed and set up from the beginning. It's hardly something he crammed in there at the end. Granted, I'm sure it played out a little more quickly than it might have if he'd stayed on the book as he'd originally planned. But I think the end result would have been pretty much the same.

[Justice Daye]

I wasn't saying that Scott isn't attracted to Emma physically (or at least I wasn't trying to). Cyke wasn't attracted to Emma on panel. He went to her, idiotically, for advice and she manipulated him. He was a broken, shattered piece of a man, not ready to face his problems and he let himself be mainpulated.

Scott didn't have a psychic affair with Emma because he liked her. He did it because he couldn't have ANY physical love and he let himself be manipulated by Emma because it felt good. He never stated that Jean did ANYTHING wrong. It was him with the problem. Problems which were never resolved mind you. Read my post again. He and Emma have huge problems that would hinder any relationship. It's been and is being ignored in an eort to keep them together. Also, remember, he walked away from Emma. If said attraction was so strong, he couldn't have. Jean controlled him mentally because she knew what would happen to the x-men. She changed his natural reaction to Emma because she knew if he didn't have someone there with him, he'd abandon the x-men and the dream. Being the only real leader left with Storm, Jean, and Xavier gone and Logan not believing in it, that could not happen.
This, however, does not negate how unreal a relationship like this would be. Read everything in my post. Have those questions and problems been solved/answered? Emma only having had manipulative relationships with men and likely, never having had a long term relationship. Unresolved. Scott never having confronted any issues that Apocalypse's possession brought up besides losing his best friend and teenage sweetheart and wife. Unresolved. Furthermore, there's the fact that this smacks of EVERY OTHER SINGLE TIME Jean has died. He did this with Maddie, Lee, etc. What makes this anymore real? GM could've shown it grow and progress, answered questions that he brought up, but he didn't and they linger and are ignored, making this pairing unrealistic.

And I wasn't saying that Mags was right. Mags as a mouthpiece for GM said that the way the x-men were heading was wrong. Their path of edginess, darkness, losing that idealism, holding tight to that cynicism and growing ennui as well as the growing guilt, anger, and depression leads to Sublime and Magneto winning or the x-men becoming them. Giving up on that faith, hope, and happiness, only turns the dreamer and the dream into that which they fight against. Grant was saying that good can't be good by being evil and it can't win by becoming what it fights against (because it no longer represents anything any more different, powerful, or better than what it's against)--Magneto-- something which during his run, the x-men were heading for. I didn't mean GM was saying Magneto was right, but that becoming like him, his equal morally, ethically, emotionally, and mentally, is wrong. It reafirmed that idealism that have defined the x-men since the beggining.
Because you really can't fight fire with fire, can you?

[AdamYJ]

Well, I personally just don't like Emma. She's an annoying, manipulative, icy bitch. I lost all respect for her after reading the last issue of Generation X, which showed her getting turned on by the idea of killing her sister. From what I've seen, she's gotten worse from there.

To tell the truth, the Emma/Scott relationship doesn't seem as major as the Jean/Scott one. Remember how HUGE a deal it was when they finally tied the knot. I still love reading the issue in which Jean proposed. A lot of the really great X-couples are gone now. There's still Gambit and Rogue, but you know that'll never completely take off. Warren and Betsy, gone. Kitty and Piotr, gone. Storm and Forge, gone. Sean and Moira, gone. Alex and Lorna, gone. Sam and Tabitha, gone (though Sam is back with Lila). Paige and Jonothan, gone. Hank and Trish, gone. Dazzler and Longshot, gone and stuck in limbo. Some of the new couples are okay, but not many make sense. The Warren and Paige thing might work. Paige does seem to be the type who'd dig older guys. The Alex and Annie thing might be pushing it. Annie's character still hasn't been fully realized. Where's the love, folks? It truly is the end of an era.

[marlowe]

This is the type of stuff I grew up with! Baseball, X-men, and COSTUMES!!! Looking forward to this story and run. But please, please, please, no over-explainations in the boxes.




:D

[Spiderguile]

I'm really relieved to see the X-World returning to some kind of normalcy! Return of great creative teams set aside, the decision to bring back costumes is the best made since a long time!
Count on me buy everything X these months to come!
I had just one thing to beg for: find a way to bring my one timez favourite mutant back to life, the shy and mighty powerhouse of the X-Men, Colossus! We miss him and his death was far from being so heroic, knowing the Beast could have perfected the Legacy cure a few months later! The corniest death in all the comicdom...
Return Colossus back, please...
Nuff' said!

[Cartoon Jay]

It may not be the most "original" or the most "progressive" or whatever, but it looks like what I want from an X-Men book. It fills a role in the market, just as other books fill different role and I buy them for different reasons.

Grants run was not what I wanted from the X-Men. It was cold, impersonal, and not nearly as clever as people seem to think it was. Let him do the books like the Invisibles (what he does best) and let Chris do this.

[erik]

This art looks great. I was sortof nervous about the new costumes, and how they would work in Davis' art - but this looks darn near perfect!

Way to go Mr Davis!:D

[Roguestorm]

Originally posted by BuckySinister
I've edited your post for length. Hope you don't mind; I've tried to leave in everything I wanted to address. If anyone wants to read the whole thing, it's about halfway down page 4 of this thread.

I disagree with you rather strongly about the Scott/Emma relationship, and the lengths to which Morrison went to establish it. Scott's experience with Apocalypse left him with some serious questions about the dark side of his own personality, a side which he'd spent most of his life keeping under very tight control, but which apparently liked some of the things Apocalypse did while in control of his body. That's a very compelling conflict to me; we've all got that dark side within us, though few of us ever have to confront it in so ... epic a manner. But that's funnybooks for you.

At any rate, Scott became bored with Jean as he came to grips with his demons. He'd spent his whole life feeling emotionally constipated because of the nature of his super powers, and because of the responsibility he'd taken on at such a young age. He needed to give vent to the wild, uncontrollable things inside of him, and Emma was the perfect person for him to vent those things with. She's strong-willed and powerful, just like Jean. But unlike Jean, Emma's also terribly aggressive, and not at all concerned with the finer points of sexual morality.

Emma, for her part, initially seemed to have started the whole thing out of a desire to cause mischief, but that's a facade. She was attracted to him, but she didn't know how to deal with it. So she turned it into a sordid psychic affair. Luckily for her, Scott felt pretty much the same way. He wanted to remain faithful to Jean, but his attraction to Emma was too much. He wasn't going to her for marital advice; he was going to her for a good shag, something he didn't think Jean could give him anymore.

It was a dumb, "rebound" kind of relationship, the kind I've seen far too many people fall into over the years. But, as I've also seen happen from time to time, the relationship worked. Scott needs someone exciting and vivicious in his life, someone unconcerned with self-control. And Emma, having just had her prize pupils show her exactly how shallow she really is, needs someone with Scott's rock-solid dependability to show her how to be more. They complement each other, and make each other stronger people.

This relationship not only makes sense, it's the only path these two people can take that won't lead to ruin for themselves and everyone they care about. Because without Scott, Emma will spiral back into an ultimately meaningless existance. Without Emma, Scott will give in to despair. And without Scott, Xavier's Dream will die and pretty much all of society will come crashing down around their ears. He's the only one left who's strong enough to hold it together. Xavier's spirit's been crushed, Wolverine ultimately doesn't believe in the Dream, and Hank, much as we all love him, just doesn't have what it takes. They need Scott Summers.

That's why I also disagree with your point that the final story arc puts the thematic lie to everything that's come before. Sure, Magneto thinks that Xavier's wrong, and makes some pretty strong arguments to that end. And Xavier, ultimately, is too idealistic for his own good. His educational reforms sound nice, but ultimately don't work because too much freedom at too young an age can be a very bad thing.

But that hardly makes Magneto right on the whole. The X-Men don't cause upheaval and destruction. People like Magneto (and Cassandra Nova and Kid Omega) do that (even if they are only acting under the influence of a malignant strand of RNA). The X-Men merely react to the upheaval, and try to make sure that things don't fall completely apart. They're the "positive" evolutionary force that keeps the "negative" force of Sublime's aggressive genetic influence from bringing ruin to all. But somebody's got to be there to believe in the Dream. And, as I said above, that somebody is Scott. He's just lucky that Jean loves him enough to give him the push he needs to do the right thing. Because Scott chooses love over despair, the horrible future we read about won't happen. Which is just about the most powerful reinforcement of the Dream you could ask for.

I'm not making any of this up, or even reading between the lines all that much. It's all there, in the comics themselves. Hell, I'm paraphrasing actual dialogue for some of this. The Scott/Emma subplot is the main throughline of Morrison's entire run on the book, something that's been discussed and set up from the beginning. It's hardly something he crammed in there at the end. Granted, I'm sure it played out a little more quickly than it might have if he'd stayed on the book as he'd originally planned. But I think the end result would have been pretty much the same.


ahd hate to break it to you sugah. but if scot really loved emma as much as you claim, he wouldnt have needed jean to push him into kissing her.

[zeraze]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by OcCaM

Than, I read stuff like Age of Bronze (great recommendation btw. shame I saw the first trade go for $2.50 on e-bay, people wouldn't know a good story if it bit them on the a$$!) and realize how much more interesting stuff there is out there.

Anyway, bad habits are hard to break and most of these people here would never admit that's all it is!



Great point. As much as I loved the X-Men as a teen, I haven't been a serious buyer of the various mutant comics in years. I simply get more enjoyment out of the X-Men cartoons and movies, where the creators seem to view the franchise as fun rather than a routine job. Besides, more comic creators are exploring fresh territory so I might as well use my hard earned money to buy those new comics.

On that note, here is a recent column by Matt Maxwell concerning Marvel and DC's recent relaunches of decades-old characters. This section of the column really struck me.

We need new characters, new worlds, new visions. Reinventions are fine and dandy (I liked League of Extraordinary Gentlemen as much as the next guy, but The Invisibles, even with its flaws, is a far more satisfying and provocative work) but if you live by them, you’ll be stuck in some kind of endless loop. Even if the new work surpasses the original (which does happen, but that’s the exception, not the rule) it’s ultimately not much more than pastiche. Yes, there are reinventions that have made a place for themselves, right alongside the original. But honestly, out of the deluge of retreads, there are very few (Doom Patrol as imagined by Grant Morrison and the recent Catwoman series by Ed Brubaker, et al, strike me as two examples) that stand up on their own merits.

Does being an original work automatically make a work better? No, of course not. But an original work that succeeds so far outshines the other stuff, it’s startling. Sure, they’re not all going to succeed. They’re going to stumble along the way. They’re not going to be bought sight unseen (which is pretty much how comics are bought by retailers before you even see ‘em) because they have familiar characters Like You’ve Always Seen Them Before!

Original work takes chances that franchises could never take and they can succeed far beyond franchises (not to mention grab readers who won’t feel it necessary to bone up on thirty years of back history to enjoy the work.)


I'll let you chew on that.

zeraze

P.S.

you can read Maxwell's full column here:

http://www.brokenfrontier.com/columns/fullbleed/fullbleed.htm