DC UNIVERSE PANEL FROM LA

[MattBrady]

<img src=http://www.newsarama.com/dcnew/dclogoblue8jf.gif border=0 align=right><i>by Albert Ching</i>

Saturday's <b>DC Universe</b> panel started about 15 minutes past its scheduled start time, due to the popular <i>Heroes</i> panel in the same room, moderated by Jeph Loeb, running late.

Dan DiDio took the stage, asking, "What's the name of this panel," with fans responding "DC Universe!" and one jokester suggesting "Cup O' Dan!" He jokingly apologized for yesterday's panel being "goofy," and then introduced Nightwing writer Marv Wolfman, with DiDio making more jokes about killing Nightwing. Wolfman says the current storyline deals with a "missing year" in Dick Grayson's life, between the end of the original Teen Titans and the start of New Teen Titans, when the character was in college; essentially how he changed from Robin to Nightwing.

The next creator to take the stage was Bill Willingham, who said he'll tell you "anything you want to know about <b>Shadowpact</b>," in contrast to the notoriously secret demeanor of most DC panels.

<b>Teen Titans</b> writer Adam Beechen was next up, saying that Teen Titans will tie-in to <b>Amazons Attack</b>. DiDio asked him about his involvement in <b>Countdown</b>, and he said "It's a lot of fun, it's great to be working with such amazing writers."

Jimmy Palmiotti and Amanda Conner were up to plate next. Conner talked about <b>Terra</b>, saying that it's a new character taking the mantle. Conner also teased that there's a "brief" scene in the series where Terra is "clothes free" in Dr. Mid-Nite's lab. Palmiotti talked about <b>Countdown</b>, but, as par for the course, didn't reveal much.

The final member of the panel was Vice President of Sales, Bob Wayne.

DiDio repeated yesterday's announcements of new <b>Booster Gold</b> and <b>Infinity Inc.</b> ongoings. He also "accidentally" hinted at a <b>Black Adam</b> series, but quickly said he couldn't say anything more. He then talked about other projects, including a <b>Nightwing Annual</b> and <b>Outsiders Annual</b> that'll fill in the "One Year Later" gap, as in why Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon's proposal didn't stick and why the Outsiders "went bad." He mentioned <b>Amazons Attack</b>, saying not to confuse it with "World War Hulk."

DiDio quickly asked Palmiotti what his favorite scene he wrote in <b>Countdown</b> so far was, and he answered "Some crazy stuff with Mary Marvel." Beechen teased the crowd by saying his favorite part has been "making Batgirl evil six more times."

Again eschewing a slideshow presentation, the panel was then opened up to Q&A.

"What's next for <b>Freedom Fighters</b>?" Palmiotti: "There's going to be another 8-issue miniseries in the fall." DiDio then hinted that an explanation is forthcoming as to why Father Time looks different in different appearances.

"What's up with Wally West and his family?" DiDio: "I think they're trapped in Florida, they couldn't get a flight because of the snow." The rest of the panel ribbed DiDio for the cheesy joke, with Palmiotti saying "the Florida snow goes through your nose" and Beechen saying "trapped in Florida is DC's 2008 event." DiDio then kicked the question to Wolfman, who simply said, as is DC's unofficial policy, "Maybe."

"Is there an actual intent for the writers to slowly move the DC Universe to <b>Kingdom Come</b>?" DiDio: "Some people we're leading into Kingdom Come, some people say we're leading into Dark Knight, some people say we're leading to the Legion. Next question."

A female fan from Australia asked about Spoiler, and if she'd get a Batcave memorial like Jason Todd. DiDio said it was a question he got a lot, and answered that he never really thought of Spoiler as a Robin, and that she won't get a costume in the Batcave.

Another female fan of Spoiler asked more about the character, and why Tim Drake seemingly mourned more over Superboy's death than Spoiler's. Willingham responded that he knew Spoiler was doomed when he took over Robin, and that he wanted to make Spoiler Robin so she had a "brief, shining moment before it all spiraled down to guilt and despair." Speaking of spirals, the conversation degenerated to a degree with unintended sexual innuendos on Willingham's part, but continued to say "my intentions were to do something nice with the character." DiDio added that he completely forgot Spoiler's death was Willingham's story.

A fan asked about <b>Shadowpact</b>, and Willingham joked that although he agreed to give up secrets, fans would have to pin him in the ring set up for the International Fight League's booth on the exhibition floor.

"When will we see some redemption for Dr. Leslie Thompkins?" Willingham: "It was handed down to me, but the character never appealed to me anyway." DiDio said she'll be addressed in an upcoming story in Batman.

"What can you tell me about the Sinestro Corps?" DiDio: "We start with the <b>Sinestro Corps</b> special in June, and then there's a multi-part story in <b>Green Lantern</b>. There's going to be a Sinestro Corps backup in Green Lantern for a while."

"Concerning <b>Brave and the Bold</b>, is Batman going to stick around for a while?" DiDio: "Batman's going to be a principal player in the book, but he's not going to be in every issue."

"Is the new Dr. Fate someone in the DC Universe?" DiDio: "He's someone in the DC Universe, we've just never seen him before."

"Will Deathstroke have his own comic again?" DiDio: "He shouldn't have his own comic, he's a bad guy. I think he's just such a strong villain. He's a prime mover in the DC Universe. I don't think he needs his own book."

"Are you ever going to bring Swamp Thing back into the DCU?" Wayne: "Dan would certainly like to bring Swamp Thing back into the DC Universe," and DiDio added that as long as Swamp Thing is part of Vertigo, they can't do anything with him.

"Collecting anymore '70s and '80s comics in TPB?" Wayne: "Yes."

"Will Ted Kord be back?" DiDio: "I can't say."

[JackHarkness]

Another female fan of Spoiler asked more about the character, and why Tim Drake seemingly mourned more over Superboy's death than Spoiler's. Willingham responded that he knew Spoiler was doomed when he took over Robin, and that he wanted to make Spoiler Robin so she had a "brief, shining moment before it all spiraled down to guilt and despair." Speaking of spirals, the conversation degenerated to a degree with unintended sexual innuendos on Willingham's part, but continued to say "my intentions were to do something nice with the character."

Like have her tortured to death with power tools and then allowed to die by Leslie Thompkins. One wonders what doing something not-nice with the character would have looked like.

[sexyjesus]

Leslie Tompkins not an interesting character?

Letting Willingham on Robin was one of the worst decisions DC has ever made.

I'm up for a Black Adam comic.

[Kolimar]

Conner also teased that there's a "brief" scene in the series where Terra is "clothes free" in Dr. Mid-Nite's lab

Doc is a lucky bastard. :mad: :p

[Kolimar]

He also "accidentally" hinted at a Black Adam series, but quickly said he couldn't say anything more.

:eek: Whoa... Looks like Adam's star keeps rising. :D

[nafannataz]

More detailed report from Comicscontinuum

* Following are highlights:

* Max Fiumara is the artist of the new Infinity Inc. series written by Peter Milligan.

* Wolfman said his third story arc on Nightwing is called "321 Days" and deals with the time period at the end of the first Teen Titans and the New Teen Titans, where he was not in the Batman books and went off to college.

"It's a Dick Grayson strong story," Wolfman said, noting that events from that past will catch up to Nightwing currently. "You find out why he changes from this guy who was quipping puns to a fairly serious character in Teen Titans."

Wolfman also noted that a character, whom he created, will be returning.

* Talking about Shadowpact, Bill Willingham said: "Blue Devil has been promoted to rhyming class demon, and he's having a few troubles. And to add further misery to his life, if you have a demon from hell in Shadowpact, you should go ahead and add an angel for conflicts."

* Beechen said that Teen Titans will tie in to Amazons Attack for two issues.

* Palmiotti and Connor, joined by Justin Gray on Terra, will be a four-issue mini-series.

"It's a complete different Terra," Palmiotti said.

"Nobody in the DC Universe knows anything about her," Connor said. "But she's always popping in to the save the day."

Connor said there's a three-page sequence where Terra is naked in Dr. Mid-Nite's lab. "I have to use all these Austin Powers tricks to keep hiding her naughty bits," she said.

Power Girl will be appearing in the mini-series.

* Palmiotti reiterated that Jonah Hex will go back to single-issue stories for the next year. "There will be a bevy of guest-star artists," he said.

* Amazons Attack will feature a character from Wonder Woman's past with strong ties to her, DiDio said.

* Palmiotti said the new Uncle Sam and the Freedom Fighters mini-series will be eight issues, launching in the fall.

* Beechen said a lot of Tim Drake's "romantic entanglements" will be addressed in Robin.

* Willingham said that Spoiler's death -- out of the Robin costume -- was a condition of him writing Robin. "I just wanted to give her a good moment before the bad moment happened," he said, adding that sales on Robin went up when she was Robin.

Willingham said Tim was numb because of the death of Stephanie, his father and his new girlfriend.

Beechen said that Tim's grief happened during the missing year.

* DiDio said The Spectre will be appearing in a guest-star role in a mini-series that features a character he is familiar with.

* DiDio said Leslie Thompkins will be addressed in an upcoming Batman story.

* DiDio said that the Sinestro Corps story will continue in Green Lantern and Green Lantern Corps.

* Although not in every issue, Batman will be a primary character in The Brave and The Bold.

* DiDio said that Deathstroke shouldn't have his own comic. "He's a bad guy," DiDio said.

* Swamp Thing? "I love Swamp Thing, but as long as he's part of the Vertigo universe, we can't touch him," DiDio said.

* DiDio said that Doctor Fate will be wearing the full helmet in his new series. "It will be explained," he said.

* Wayne said that Absolute Sandman Vol. 2 is targeted for October.

* DiDio said there "are a lot of stories coming" for Kyle Rayner, whom he described as "major player."

* DiDio said that Grant Morrison has more Seven Soldiers. "And you'll be seeing them in books that Grant will be writing," he said.

Beechen said there's a "Soldierly presence" in Countdown.

* DiDio said that plans for the old Aquaman will be revealed in one of the team books.

* DiDio said the Batlash mini-series is targeted for the end of the year.

* DiDio: "I'd love to see more Lobo. Absolutely."

[Kolimar]

A female fan from Australia asked about Spoiler, and if she'd get a Batcave memorial like Jason Todd. DiDio said it was a question he got a lot, and answered that he never really thought of Spoiler as a Robin, and that she won't get a costume in the Batcave.

Sigh... <w>

[Deadshot77]

The next creator to take the stage was Bill Willingham, who said he'll tell you "anything you want to know about <b>Shadowpact</b>," in contrast to the notoriously secret demeanor of most DC panels.

"Will Ted Kord be back?" DiDio: "I can't say."


Why didn't someone ask Bill if he would willingly give up Nightshade & Enchantress back to John Ostrander for Suicide Squad? That's what I want to know. Or if John wanted to use one(hopefully Nightshade). Bill can replace the ladies & spice up the title. I want to see them both back in the Suicide Squad, where John's talents can flesh them out further. No offense to Bill, but John brought those characters out of obscurity.

And Ted hopefully can exist outside the timestream with his buddy Booster, if MJ can save figures from throughout time, his sister, Ted & Sue would have a chance at life beyond the timestream. But that's probably best served for another thread or series beyond Booster's new ongoing! Which is incredibly great news for my depressing weekend. :D

HUGE props to DC for the announcements thus far!

[JLAJRC]

An angel in Shadowpact? I hope it's Zauriel. :)

[wonderfish]

And Ted hopefully can exist outside the timestream with his buddy Booster, if MJ can save figures from throughout time, his sister, Ted & Sue would have a chance at life beyond the timestream.

You read my mind!

[RRGrayson]

Didio has no respect for the Bat-Family whatsoever.

Stephanie won't get either her Spoiler or Robin uniform hung up in the cave??? :eek: There's no acknowledgement that she even existed in the DC universe. Dixon wrote her as a cool character. And she was a love interest to Tim. Not a Robin??? She was Robin for what? a half year? She showed up in Teen Titans, BOP, Tec and Batman as well in Robin as Robin. And you can't think of her as Robin???

:mad:

Didio is treating Stephanie as a speed bump. That's b.s. in my book. www.girl-wonder.org is gonna have a field day with this. And I don't blame them.

Is it me or does it seem like any sensibility just bounces off that chrome/bald/unintelligent dome of Didios???

:mad:

On Leslie Thomkins not being interesting??? COME ON! She was a great character and it sucked when they wrote as of not giving Stephanie the medication to live.

DIDIO PULL YOU #$%^&@#$ HEAD OUT!!!!

[caats19]

aquaman will be adressed in jla i hope!

[KaijubotX]

* DiDio said The Spectre will be appearing in a guest-star role in a mini-series that features a character he is familiar with.

Renee Montoya?

[Ovid]

Like have her tortured to death with power tools and then allowed to die by Leslie Thompkins. One wonders what doing something not-nice with the character would have looked like.It would probably involve selling an action figure of her torturer, with said power tools as "character-specific accessories".

Oh, wait (http://www.dccomics.com/dcdirect/?dcd=3101)...

[Glenn Davis]

:eek: Whoa... Looks like Adam's star keeps rising. :D

I am going on record right now that Black Adam will not get a series. This is Dan Dido trying to make up spilling the beans on other stories like the multiverse etc. It so obvious. Black Adam will die at the end of 52.

[Bane122]

Didio has no respect for the Bat-Family whatsoever.

Stephanie won't get either her Spoiler or Robin uniform hung up in the cave??? :eek: There's no acknowledgement that she even existed in the DC universe. Dixon wrote her as a cool character. And she was a love interest to Tim. Not a Robin??? She was Robin for what? a half year? She showed up in Teen Titans, BOP, Tec and Batman as well in Robin as Robin. And you can't think of her as Robin???

:mad:

Didio is treating Stephanie as a speed bump. That's b.s. in my book. www.girl-wonder.org is gonna have a field day with this. And I don't blame them.

Is it me or does it seem like any sensibility just bounces off that chrome/bald/unintelligent dome of Didios???

:mad:

On Leslie Thomkins not being interesting??? COME ON! She was a great character and it sucked when they wrote as of not giving Stephanie the medication to live.

DIDIO PULL YOU #$%^&@#$ HEAD OUT!!!!

Well, Stephanie WASN' T Robin that long. It may have been six months or so, but ultimately she was a speed bump in Batman history. Dn't get me wrong, I do like the character. And I do think it sucks that she won't have anyhittng in the cave. But it's not really that big of a deal.

Didio isn't the one that said Leslie was uninteresting, Willingham did. And you can't blame someone for thinking a character is uninteresting.

[jmcl89]

"Will Deathstroke have his own comic again?" DiDio: "He shouldn't have his own comic, he's a bad guy. I think he's just such a strong villain. He's a prime mover in the DC Universe. I don't think he needs his own book."


In the last two and a half years (since the start of Identity Crisis), I've seen Deathstroke as a villian in Identity Crisis, Infininite Crisis, Villians United, Teen Titans, Nightwing, Outsiders, Batgirl, Green Arrow, and Birds of Prey. Having his own book would be a demotion :)

[whitemarkd]

I am going on record right now that Black Adam will not get a series. This is Dan Dido trying to make up spilling the beans on other stories like the multiverse etc. It so obvious. Black Adam will die at the end of 52.
No, silly - he'll be the new Spoiler...

[JackHarkness]

And you can't blame someone for thinking a character is uninteresting.

One can, however, blame that person for writing a bad story about the character in question.

[ROBRAM89]

Like have her tortured to death with power tools and then allowed to die by Leslie Thompkins. One wonders what doing something not-nice with the character would have looked like.

They could SO FREAKING EASILY say that she couldn't have saved her, and she just used the situation as an opportunity to teach him a lesson anyway, despite not actually having been able to save her, and only gave up Bruce's respect for her, and not somebody's life, to show him what he was doing.

Also, he's Black Mask. He tortures people to death, that's what he does. It could be worse...Dr Light used to fight teenage superheroes, HE could have gotten to her. [shiver]

[Thalya]

Doc is a lucky bastard. :mad: :p

First Power Girl, then Terra. Too bad Doc's blind..

[Wright Blan]

Doc is a lucky bastard. :mad: :p


Yeah, too bad he's blind. :(

Uh, is this New Terra gonna be a teen-ager? Otherwise, we may have a few problems here.:eek:

[Wright Blan]

Didio has no respect for the Bat-Family whatsoever.

Stephanie won't get either her Spoiler or Robin uniform hung up in the cave??? :eek: There's no acknowledgement that she even existed in the DC universe. Dixon wrote her as a cool character. And she was a love interest to Tim. Not a Robin??? She was Robin for what? a half year? She showed up in Teen Titans, BOP, Tec and Batman as well in Robin as Robin. And you can't think of her as Robin???

:mad:

Didio is treating Stephanie as a speed bump. That's b.s. in my book. www.girl-wonder.org is gonna have a field day with this. And I don't blame them.

Is it me or does it seem like any sensibility just bounces off that chrome/bald/unintelligent dome of Didios???

:mad:

On Leslie Thomkins not being interesting??? COME ON! She was a great character and it sucked when they wrote as of not giving Stephanie the medication to live.

DIDIO PULL YOU #$%^&@#$ HEAD OUT!!!!

Hmmm. did you ever think that Spoiler might not be getting a memorial in the Batcave because she might be still ALIVE? Could it be that Dr. Leslie faked her death? I've just had this funny feeling...

[Johnny Triangles]

"Is there an actual intent for the writers to slowly move the DC Universe to <b>Kingdom Come</b>?" DiDio: "Some people we're leading into Kingdom Come, some people say we're leading into Dark Knight, some people say we're leading to the Legion. Next question."

Hmm, Didio broke character and got a little snippy and defensive there, huh? I guess it hit too close to the truth. Anyway, people tend to say that DC was formerly leading to Dark Knight from the 80s through the 90s, but is now leading to Kingdom Come. And it's true.



Another female fan of Spoiler asked more about the character, and why Tim Drake seemingly mourned more over Superboy's death than Spoiler's. Willingham responded that he knew Spoiler was doomed when he took over Robin, and that he wanted to make Spoiler Robin so she had a "brief, shining moment before it all spiraled down to guilt and despair." Speaking of spirals, the conversation degenerated to a degree with unintended sexual innuendos on Willingham's part, but continued to say "my intentions were to do something nice with the character." DiDio added that he completely forgot Spoiler's death was Willingham's story.

Not only is this answer untrue (as someone else pointed out, there was nothing "shining" about Spoiler's moment, she was belittled and treated like crap throughout before eventually getting fired and killed), it DOESN"T EVEN ANSWER THE QUESTION ASKED. The question asker said nothing about "brief shining moments," but rather why Robin never even mentions her at all. Total dodge of an answer.

[Lex]

Leslie Tompkins not an interesting character?

Letting Willingham on Robin was one of the worst decisions DC has ever made.
But it sounds like making Leslie bad was an editorial decision, not Willingham's.

[richstanz]

Well, Stephanie WASN' T Robin that long. It may have been six months or so, but ultimately she was a speed bump in Batman history. Dn't get me wrong, I do like the character. And I do think it sucks that she won't have anyhittng in the cave. But it's not really that big of a deal.

But she was still Robin.

Jason Todd was Robin for only 5 years, and he still got a memorial. 5 years isn't as long as Dick Grayson or Tim Drake. And Todd was reckless, angry, ruined plans, used excessive force. Yet he still gets a memorial. What exactly did Spolier do worse than Jason Todd, or not enough of, to not be considered a "Real" Robin?

Didio isn't the one that said Leslie was uninteresting, Willingham did. And you can't blame someone for thinking a character is uninteresting.

You can't blame someone for thinking a character is uninteresting - however if you think that character is uninteresting, why write about them? If you don't like a character, why not just ignore them, until someone wants to write about them? And if you're going to take a risk and change the character around - then attempt some follow-through. The War Crimes storyline dramatically changed her and shunted her off to Africa, pretty much to never be seen again.
Good recent example of risk taking, and follow-through: Marvel attempted a radical re-haul of Speedball, it was followed through in Frontline, then Thunderbolts, and Nova (soon). They didn't just change him, ship him off to another country and then promise to pick back up on it two years later.

[Ace_ETP]

Renee Montoya?

He said someone the the Spectre is familiar with, not someone Crispus Allen is familiar with.

My money's on Doctor Fate.

[IronWolf]

This is going to sound weird but i had a dream about being Black Adam the other night, like the whole world was involed ina war and Black adam was the only one who could stop the bad guys. and i saw it all through his eyes it was sick the easter bunny was there Billie Jo from green day and you where there two Grampa. the Black adam books sounds like a good idea.

[Hokeyboy]

Hmm, Didio broke character and got a little snippy and defensive there, huh? I guess it hit too close to the truth. Anyway, people tend to say that DC was formerly leading to Dark Knight from the 80s through the 90s, but is now leading to Kingdom Come. And it's true.
No. It's not true. Characters from Kingdom Come are already dead in the DCU. Heck, in the opening pages of KC, Wesley Dodds (Sandman) is still alive, and he's long since passed. Ted Kord is still there too. Makes no sense.

Just because Thom Kallor shows up at the end of JSA #2 and Red Robin appeared on that Countdown "teaser" image, it doesn't mean that KC is an inevitability. Just as Dark Knight never ended up as an inevitability.

Assumptions & Internet geekboy whining <> truth

[nafannataz]

News on Kyle Rayner

[AM/FM Wizard]

Hmm, Didio broke character and got a little snippy and defensive there, huh? I guess it hit too close to the truth. Anyway, people tend to say that DC was formerly leading to Dark Knight from the 80s through the 90s, but is now leading to Kingdom Come. And it's true.

The reason that it seems like the DCU is headed into these various futures is because some of the DCU titles are taking place on alternate earths. For instance, the Superman and Batman titles are taking place on different earths than Detective and Action. It will all be explained at the end of 52.

Of course, this is just me talkin' out me butt.

[KimEM]

Renee Montoya?

That is the question. :rolleyes:

- Kim ;)

[KimEM]

Hmm, Didio broke character and got a little snippy and defensive there, huh? I guess it hit too close to the truth. Anyway, people tend to say that DC was formerly leading to Dark Knight from the 80s through the 90s, but is now leading to Kingdom Come. And it's true.

I think you might be reading the wrong thing into his reply. Given the hints about the multiverse that've dropped, I'm guessing that all of the above are true, just in different parallel worlds.

I'm thinking that's where Countdown is heading, counting down to the "Great Disaster", in which the world fragments into all it's component worlds, each of which has a different destiny.

- Kim ;)

[Drink]

Beechen teased the crowd by saying his favorite part has been "making Batgirl evil six more times."
Yeah, not really helping your case here, Beechen.

Also, What the hell on the comments re: Spoiler? Torture and sexually suggestive posing was "A nice sendoff?"

[Ignacio Alcuri]

Leslie Thompkins will be the next Spoiler...

[Wright Blan]

More detailed report from Comicscontinuum

* DiDio said The Spectre will be appearing in a guest-star role in a mini-series that features a character he is familiar with.

"


Hmmmmm...wasn't Spectre "familiar" with Jean Loring/Eclipso. :eek:

[ROBRAM89]

Yeah, not really helping your case here, Beechen.

Also, What the hell on the comments re: Spoiler? Torture and sexually suggestive posing was "A nice sendoff?"

I'm so sick of that statement being taken out of context.

He was talking about making her Robin before she died because he liked the character and knew she was going to die whether he killed her or not. He's not trying to spin it into some glorious, heroic death, I doubt that was exactly what he was aiming for.

Has anybody at SD mentioned me not being around?

[Johnny Triangles]

The reason that it seems like the DCU is headed into these various futures is because some of the DCU titles are taking place on alternate earths. For instance, the Superman and Batman titles are taking place on different earths than Detective and Action. It will all be explained at the end of 52.

Of course, this is just me talkin' out me butt.

After Dark Knight, the Batman/Superman relationship was changed to reflect that. The old "best bud" dynamic was forever gone and replaced by "reluctant but respectful friendship." After DKR we got brooding, jerk aloof Bats. If I recall correctly, it was implied that Joker killed Jason in DKR. It soon became reality in the mainstream DCU. A story where Green Arrow loses his shooting arm thanks to Superman happened, seemingly to create circumstances that led to the armless, Superman-hating Green Arrow of DKR (Kevin Smith didn't run with that ball though).

Ever since Kingdom, writers have switched to milking THAT cow dry. Now we have endless harping on the "Trinity," where suddenly Superman, Batman and Wonder Women are three stars of a show called "2 guys, a girl and the justice league." The dynamic is a blatant attempt to recreate the chemistry shown in Kingdom. Plastic Man has a son. Arsenal is turned into Red Arrow twice since Kingdom Come. (Devin Grayson reversed it once, Meltzer brought it back) Gog and Magog have shown up. Starman is now here. I believe more changes will come.

[Johnny Triangles]

I'm so sick of that statement being taken out of context.

He was talking about making her Robin before she died because he liked the character and knew she was going to die whether he killed her or not. He's not trying to spin it into some glorious, heroic death, I doubt that was exactly what he was aiming for.

Has anybody at SD mentioned me not being around?

How did anyone take it out of context? How is making her Robin a "bright, shining" moment if she botches the job, is constantly reminded of her inadequacies while being Robin, is unceremoniously fired and dismissed coldly, then tortured at length and then shot? How did any of that soften the editorially-decreed death at all?

[Wright Blan]

The reason that it seems like the DCU is headed into these various futures is because some of the DCU titles are taking place on alternate earths. For instance, the Superman and Batman titles are taking place on different earths than Detective and Action. It will all be explained at the end of 52.

Of course, this is just me talkin' out me butt.


I hope not. We don't need twenty different Batmans and twenty different Supermans showing up in comics every month. Heck, it's hard enough to get new readers to pick up books with just one Superman in them.

[ROBRAM89]

Gog and Magog have shown up.

Dead wrong. Magog has never shown up, just an alternate version of Gog, who was halfway intended to end up in the mainstream DCU from the moment he was created.

Also, yes, the DCU is getting closer to KC...BUT NOT BECAUSE THEY WANT IT TO BE THE FUTURE OF THE DAMN DCU. They're CLEARLY building toward a major story here, not just setting things up to line up to a story that was written as and is CURRENTLY BRANDED AS an Elseworld. It's crossing over for a big story, then going back to almost-normal, LIKE EVERY SINGLE THING THEY FREAKING DO DOES.

Also? Meltzer, the guy who introduced soem of this stuff, like Red Arrow...he has stated at least once that he holds DKR to be the future of the DCU. And intends to write JLA that way. And I'm not sure if you've noticed, but KC and DKR aren't exactly compatible.

SEXUAL CHOCOLATE! [drops mic, runs off]

[ROBRAM89]

How did anyone take it out of context? How is making her Robin a "bright, shining" moment if she botches the job, is constantly reminded of her inadequacies while being Robin, is unceremoniously fired and dismissed coldly, then tortured at length and then shot? How did any of that soften the editorially-decreed death at all?

Making her Robin was the good part, the rest of it was just repercussions from that one thing. What do you expect to happen when some random girl dresses as Robin? They don't have a wonderful history...Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake...the Little Rascals had better luck than Robin.

[von Doom, M.D.]

I'm so glad I don't give a flying **** about Spoiler.

[Innagroove]

I'll try the Terra series, but I have a feeling I won't care for her being a totally new character.

[ROBRAM89]

I'm so glad I don't give a flying **** about Spoiler.

Not counting scans, I';m reasonably certain I've never read a single book with her in it. Maybe the few WarGames issues I got...we only bought the Batman ones...but other than that, I don't think so.

[ElijahSnowFan]

I am going on record right now that Black Adam will not get a series. This is Dan Dido trying to make up spilling the beans on other stories like the multiverse etc. It so obvious. Black Adam will die at the end of 52.

well, i, for one, sure as hell hope so!

seriously, i'm sympathetic to the guy -- yes, it absolutely sucked what happened to his wife, brother-in-law and country.

but, um, er, well...HE KILLED A FREAKING COUNTRY! again, i say for emphasis, HE KILLED A FREAKING COUNTRY!

unless there's an alien parasite named "Homicidal Maniac" that's grafted itself to his soul, let's not forget that BLACK ADAM KILLED A FREAKING COUNTRY!

yes, Mr. DiDio, you are right: Deasthstroke is a bad guy and shouldn't get a book.

let's just say, for the sake of argument, that when you kill, oh, A MILLION PEOPLE OR SO, you've crossed the threshold of being "a bad guy."

Black Adam's well past that threshold, right?

[Johnny Triangles]

Making her Robin was the good part, the rest of it was just repercussions from that one thing. What do you expect to happen when some random girl dresses as Robin? They don't have a wonderful history...Dick Grayson, Jason Todd, Tim Drake...the Little Rascals had better luck than Robin.

How exactly was making her Robin a "good part" if she utterly failed at it and Didio and company explicitly say that she was never truly Robin in their minds, hence no memorial?

[PatrickG]

How exactly was making her Robin a "good part" if she utterly failed at it and Didio and company explicitly say that she was never truly Robin in their minds, hence no memorial?

Honestly, I think the idea, however poorly articulated, is that almost nobody would care about Steph's death. The people who do care are a minority.

Steph would have screwed up and died whether she had become Robin.

However, she was made Robin so that more people would care.

And had she not failed at being Robin, she would have failed at being Spoiler.

She was dead with or without being Robin and the Robin costume was tacked onto that story as an afterthought because it seemed to make her death matter a bit more. But it was an afterthought.

And she shouldn't matter too much because her character wasn't around before 1949 in any form. That's how things work.

Am I being cynical here? Maybe. But any character who isn't on lunchboxes ultimately isn't going to be that important.

Damage is responsible for the big bang. How often does that come up?

It doesn't.

I LOVE plenty of minor characters but I accept that they are expendable and that it's unrealistic to expect those characters to be anything DC wants readers to dwell on when they've got newer (and older) characters to push.

If it isn't brand new and it isn't forty years old, don't expect respect. I think it's a little unreasonable and a little unrealistic to.

Doesn't make it fair or right to those of us who have our favorite B-listers but it's reality and you need to stay in touch with that.

[caats19]

i didn't even know stephanie brown was robin till i saw it on wikipedia. aka she's not a big deal.

[khuxford]

"Will Deathstroke have his own comic again?" DiDio: "He shouldn't have his own comic, he's a bad guy. I think he's just such a strong villain. He's a prime mover in the DC Universe. I don't think he needs his own book."

Sorry...but I think he could still carry a series as a strong villain. I know DEATHSTROKE THE HUNTED wasn't about him being a villain so much...but you could write a good mini or ongoing using that angle with him as an honest-to-goodness bad guy. Hell...Villains United and Secret Six sold...and they were still bad guys...just that they seemed to be good guys because they were fighting against worse guys. :)

[ROBRAM89]

well, i, for one, sure as hell hope so!

seriously, i'm sympathetic to the guy -- yes, it absolutely sucked what happened to his wife, brother-in-law and country.

but, um, er, well...HE KILLED A FREAKING COUNTRY! again, i say for emphasis, HE KILLED A FREAKING COUNTRY!

unless there's an alien parasite named "Homicidal Maniac" that's grafted itself to his soul, let's not forget that BLACK ADAM KILLED A FREAKING COUNTRY!

yes, Mr. DiDio, you are right: Deasthstroke is a bad guy and shouldn't get a book.

let's just say, for the sake of argument, that when you kill, oh, A MILLION PEOPLE OR SO, you've crossed the threshold of being "a bad guy."

Black Adam's well past that threshold, right?

It's not all that he's a bad guy, it's that he's a bad guy who's already in every book. Black Adam is in about two, 52 and a JSA arc about a year ago.

Also, Black Adam still isn't evil, he's crazy. Deathstroke is utterly amoral. Black Adam could get better, you can't cure "mercenary."

[Cbomb23]

What would be wrong with a book about a villain? (Black Adam or Deathstroke or both) It may be a difficult book to write but both are great characters and I would definitely pick up both titles as long as they remained interesting. Alot of my favorite characters are villians and as long as they are portrayed as villains doing evil things and being successful instead of always failing in superhero titles would be different.

[ROBRAM89]

Venom became an anti-hero and got a book, and he used to eat brains. I mean, come on.

[Snowspinner]

Like have her tortured to death with power tools and then allowed to die by Leslie Thompkins. One wonders what doing something not-nice with the character would have looked like.

I do not think that the direction on that torture scene came from Willingham. I think it was an editorial decision. I know for a fact that Dylan Horrocks was so appalled by those sequences that he refused to write any for his contributions to the crossover. I forget if he succeeded in that, or if he was made to, though I know he left Batgirl shortly after because of things like that plot.

[Snowspinner]

Didio has no respect for the Bat-Family whatsoever.


No. Didio doesn't like Spoiler. I understand the frustration - I like her too. But that's not a disrespect for the entire Bat-Family. It's a disrespect for someone who was always a minor character.

[ROBRAM89]

If I went out with Barbara Gordon, and I decided to dress up as Batman and go out fighting crime, and got myself killed, should my friends get pissed off if he doesn't put up my Batman costume in a big glass Bat-Memorial?

[AM/FM Wizard]

I'm so glad I don't give a flying **** about Spoiler.

You and me both, my iron-encrusted friend, you and me both.

This thread is beginning to take on shades of the Claremont forums found on another comix messageboard that shall remain nameless. Everyone worked into a tizzy over something really lame. I mean, I was Robin for Halloween two years in a row when I was a kid, but you don't see me belly-aching because I'm not represented in the batcave. And yeah, maybe I wasn't tortured with power tools, but I was smacked with a belt by a very large father with an East L.A. Fu-Manchu moustache.

Now let's get back to bitchin' about the important stuff, like whether or not Booster Gold's costume should have the collar. :p

[Zechs]

Beechen teased the crowd by saying his favorite part has been "making Batgirl evil six more times."


No doubt he got booed six more times for bringing that up :p

[jonnynyc]

Did Willingham just bascially say editorial was responsible for all the crappy things that happened while he was on Robin
Why can't Didio note that

[spacekicker]

I asked Beechem about the "romantic entanglements" and Tim Drake being a "Pimp" so it'll be nice to see how that is addressed. I don't know if I want it tim to end up with cassie, cassandra but definately not the one he's after in the Robin comic right now.

The other question was about Ted Kord. I mean Booster, time travel, best friend...come on! He really gave a tell as he stared at me hard and said "I can't say"

The DCU panel was much more fun to me than the Marvel Panel. Dan Didio was hyper, at first in an annoying manner, but you quickly realize he is having a BLAST doing what he is doing. I got the feeling from the Marvel panel that there is a ...snootiness there. Arrogance if you will

Just something I thought

Otherwise good con

[Terram]

Not only is this answer untrue (as someone else pointed out, there was nothing "shining" about Spoiler's moment, she was belittled and treated like crap throughout before eventually getting fired and killed), it DOESN"T EVEN ANSWER THE QUESTION ASKED. The question asker said nothing about "brief shining moments," but rather why Robin never even mentions her at all. Total dodge of an answer.
This Spoiler business is pretty goddamn sick if you ask me.

[khuxford]

The DCU panel was much more fun to me than the Marvel Panel. Dan Didio was hyper, at first in an annoying manner, but you quickly realize he is having a BLAST doing what he is doing. I got the feeling from the Marvel panel that there is a ...snootiness there. Arrogance if you will

Just something I thought

Otherwise good con

At NYCC, I told someone that I really thought if you combined Dan Didio's presentation with what I saw of Joe Quesada's, you'd have an ideal one. Didio is sometimes annoyingly giddy and hyper in his presentation. It is rare that he stops to give a real serious, thoughtful answer (not that he can't give a thoughtful answer at all...when he does, it really makes an impression). He just truly treats the questioning as lightning round stuff...quick hitting answers for the most part...jokes prevail, too.

In comparison, Joe's much more sedate and his jokes seem to be more of a drier wit than Dan's boisterous stuff, on panel. When a fan comes up and says you're killing all my favorite characters, Joe's more prone to give a serious answer even if he's heard it for every convention for the last 2 years. Dan, from my limited experience, will be more flippant about it until the fan follows it up with, "no...I'm serious...you are and it is frustrating me." I personally think that can be a little dangerous, since there are some fans who aren't up at the mic that might want to hear the serious answer.

I think both guys are great and have the best intentions in their approaches, but I skew towards preferring Joe's approach at panels. I think that both could benefit from borrowing a bit from each others' styles.

[NoisyDvL5]

"Is the new Dr. Fate someone in the DC Universe?" DiDio: "He's someone in the DC Universe, we've just never seen him before."


Why do people give dumb answers when responding to questions? Do they think it's cute?

And don't we already know that Kent Nelson has some mysterious never before mentioned relative named Kent Nelson?

[Wright Blan]

Did Willingham just bascially say editorial was responsible for all the crappy things that happened while he was on Robin
Why can't Didio note that

Uh, wouldn't he qualify as editorial? :rolleyes:

[Zechs]

This Spoiler business is pretty goddamn sick if you ask me.

It truly is... Even more for the fact Jason even alive STILL gets more cred with case honoring him even though he's alive while Steph is dead and what does she get? Nothing.. and worse just when you think things don't go any lower Didio has to say that *sigh*.

It times like these I wish Gail have Babs have something to remember Steph by since she's the only writer who acknowledges Steph.. course Beechen does too but very little.

Oh and if Tim is to choose someone chose Cassandra. Poor gal's suffered so much. She needs someone trusting to help her through this difficult time.

[caats19]

a deathstroke book would be lame. he probably shoulda just said it

[BOP Fan]

More detailed report from Comicscontinuum

* Following are highlights:

* Max Fiumara is the artist of the new Infinity Inc. series written by Peter Milligan.

* Wolfman said his third story arc on Nightwing is called "321 Days" and deals with the time period at the end of the first Teen Titans and the New Teen Titans, where he was not in the Batman books and went off to college.

"It's a Dick Grayson strong story," Wolfman said, noting that events from that past will catch up to Nightwing currently. "You find out why he changes from this guy who was quipping puns to a fairly serious character in Teen Titans."

Wolfman also noted that a character, whom he created, will be returning.

* Talking about Shadowpact, Bill Willingham said: "Blue Devil has been promoted to rhyming class demon, and he's having a few troubles. And to add further misery to his life, if you have a demon from hell in Shadowpact, you should go ahead and add an angel for conflicts."

* Beechen said that Teen Titans will tie in to Amazons Attack for two issues.

* Palmiotti and Connor, joined by Justin Gray on Terra, will be a four-issue mini-series.

"It's a complete different Terra," Palmiotti said.

"Nobody in the DC Universe knows anything about her," Connor said. "But she's always popping in to the save the day."

Connor said there's a three-page sequence where Terra is naked in Dr. Mid-Nite's lab. "I have to use all these Austin Powers tricks to keep hiding her naughty bits," she said.

Power Girl will be appearing in the mini-series.

* Palmiotti reiterated that Jonah Hex will go back to single-issue stories for the next year. "There will be a bevy of guest-star artists," he said.

* Amazons Attack will feature a character from Wonder Woman's past with strong ties to her, DiDio said.

* Palmiotti said the new Uncle Sam and the Freedom Fighters mini-series will be eight issues, launching in the fall.

* Beechen said a lot of Tim Drake's "romantic entanglements" will be addressed in Robin.

* Willingham said that Spoiler's death -- out of the Robin costume -- was a condition of him writing Robin. "I just wanted to give her a good moment before the bad moment happened," he said, adding that sales on Robin went up when she was Robin.

Willingham said Tim was numb because of the death of Stephanie, his father and his new girlfriend.

Beechen said that Tim's grief happened during the missing year.

* DiDio said The Spectre will be appearing in a guest-star role in a mini-series that features a character he is familiar with.

* DiDio said Leslie Thompkins will be addressed in an upcoming Batman story.

* DiDio said that the Sinestro Corps story will continue in Green Lantern and Green Lantern Corps.

* Although not in every issue, Batman will be a primary character in The Brave and The Bold.

* DiDio said that Deathstroke shouldn't have his own comic. "He's a bad guy," DiDio said.

* Swamp Thing? "I love Swamp Thing, but as long as he's part of the Vertigo universe, we can't touch him," DiDio said.

* DiDio said that Doctor Fate will be wearing the full helmet in his new series. "It will be explained," he said.

* Wayne said that Absolute Sandman Vol. 2 is targeted for October.

* DiDio said there "are a lot of stories coming" for Kyle Rayner, whom he described as "major player."

* DiDio said that Grant Morrison has more Seven Soldiers. "And you'll be seeing them in books that Grant will be writing," he said.

Beechen said there's a "Soldierly presence" in Countdown.

* DiDio said that plans for the old Aquaman will be revealed in one of the team books.

* DiDio said the Batlash mini-series is targeted for the end of the year.

* DiDio: "I'd love to see more Lobo. Absolutely."


Let me get it straight-sales went up when she was Robin and they still didn't think it was a good idea to keep her around somehow (shakes head in disbelief)?


Best wishes,

Scott

[BOP Fan]

Didio has no respect for the Bat-Family whatsoever.

Stephanie won't get either her Spoiler or Robin uniform hung up in the cave??? :eek: There's no acknowledgement that she even existed in the DC universe. Dixon wrote her as a cool character. And she was a love interest to Tim. Not a Robin??? She was Robin for what? a half year? She showed up in Teen Titans, BOP, Tec and Batman as well in Robin as Robin. And you can't think of her as Robin???

:mad:

Didio is treating Stephanie as a speed bump. That's b.s. in my book. www.girl-wonder.org is gonna have a field day with this. And I don't blame them.

Is it me or does it seem like any sensibility just bounces off that chrome/bald/unintelligent dome of Didios???

:mad:

On Leslie Thomkins not being interesting??? COME ON! She was a great character and it sucked when they wrote as of not giving Stephanie the medication to live.

DIDIO PULL YOU #$%^&@#$ HEAD OUT!!!!


Yeah,that was astoundingly out of character for Leslie and was never really addressed. Do you suppose the problem with leslie is that she's too old to wear spandex?

Best wishes,

Scott

[BOP Fan]

I asked Beechem about the "romantic entanglements" and Tim Drake being a "Pimp" so it'll be nice to see how that is addressed. I don't know if I want it tim to end up with cassie, cassandra but definately not the one he's after in the Robin comic right now.

The other question was about Ted Kord. I mean Booster, time travel, best friend...come on! He really gave a tell as he stared at me hard and said "I can't say"

The DCU panel was much more fun to me than the Marvel Panel. Dan Didio was hyper, at first in an annoying manner, but you quickly realize he is having a BLAST doing what he is doing. I got the feeling from the Marvel panel that there is a ...snootiness there. Arrogance if you will

Just something I thought

Otherwise good con


Regarding Ted-that does sound rather encouraging....

Best wishes,

Scott

[BOP Fan]

Dead wrong. Magog has never shown up, just an alternate version of Gog, who was halfway intended to end up in the mainstream DCU from the moment he was created.

Also, yes, the DCU is getting closer to KC...BUT NOT BECAUSE THEY WANT IT TO BE THE FUTURE OF THE DAMN DCU. They're CLEARLY building toward a major story here, not just setting things up to line up to a story that was written as and is CURRENTLY BRANDED AS an Elseworld. It's crossing over for a big story, then going back to almost-normal, LIKE EVERY SINGLE THING THEY FREAKING DO DOES.

Also? Meltzer, the guy who introduced soem of this stuff, like Red Arrow...he has stated at least once that he holds DKR to be the future of the DCU. And intends to write JLA that way. And I'm not sure if you've noticed, but KC and DKR aren't exactly compatible.

SEXUAL CHOCOLATE! [drops mic, runs off]


DKR stopped being the future of the DC Universe the day Tim Drake showed up. No way does he fit into the DKR chronology...

Best wishes,

Scott

[Happyhatter]

More detailed report from Comicscontinuum


* DiDio said that plans for the old Aquaman will be revealed in one of the team books.

."


this is all i wanted to hear...

[Plantagenet]

"Are you ever going to bring Swamp Thing back into the DCU?" Wayne: "Dan would certainly like to bring Swamp Thing back into the DC Universe," and DiDio added that as long as Swamp Thing is part of Vertigo, they can't do anything with him.

What a freakin' waste of a great character. If Karen Berger doesn't know what to do with him, it's time to let him go and let the DCU writers try him out.

[aylwinatrix]

well, i, for one, sure as hell hope so!

seriously, i'm sympathetic to the guy -- yes, it absolutely sucked what happened to his wife, brother-in-law and country.

but, um, er, well...HE KILLED A FREAKING COUNTRY! again, i say for emphasis, HE KILLED A FREAKING COUNTRY!

unless there's an alien parasite named "Homicidal Maniac" that's grafted itself to his soul, let's not forget that BLACK ADAM KILLED A FREAKING COUNTRY!

yes, Mr. DiDio, you are right: Deasthstroke is a bad guy and shouldn't get a book.

let's just say, for the sake of argument, that when you kill, oh, A MILLION PEOPLE OR SO, you've crossed the threshold of being "a bad guy."

Black Adam's well past that threshold, right?

I don't think Black Adam dies. He's been spotted in Green Lantern among other comics post-OYL. Hasn't he?

[elias_A]

Spoiler was a great character. I miss her very much.

There was some theory that she had to die so that Batman still had a sidekick to mourn after Jason came back. Apparently, that's not the case, but since she is dead, why not exploit it as a big symbol for Batman?
I don't understand the reason.

Unless she is not really dead... But I don't want to be to optimistic...

[EMeadow]

I don't think Black Adam dies. He's been spotted in Green Lantern among other comics post-OYL. Hasn't he?

He hasn't. They always said at the beginning of 52 you wouldn't see any of the main players in any other DCU books until 52 was over.

Booster getting his own series and Steel being a part of Infinity Inc are the first two confirmations that they'll actually be around after 52.

Ralph, Renee, and Black Adam are actually still up in the air. Even though we've all got some ideas on what happens to them next. Nothing official.

[Beetle Bomb]

SEXUAL CHOCOLATE! [drops mic, runs off]

"They play so fine, don't you agree?..."

Gosh dang! That boy can sing!
(You must be crazy...)
He good!!
(You must be crazy...)

[Weaver]

"When will we see some redemption for Dr. Leslie Thompkins?" Willingham: "It was handed down to me, but the character never appealed to me anyway."

You know what? Screw you, Willingham. Screw you and the horse you rode in on. You didn't like the character, so you didn't bother, oh, looking at her personality, maybe doing some research, checking out a couple of past issues - nope, you just thought in that tiny brain of yours maybe you had a good idea and you ran with it.

Why does this make me so angry, when I just bleah at Didio's "no case, she wasn't a Robin, stfu" comment about Spoiler? I don't know. Maybe I've given up on Didio.

But I thought at least one of them might have had a bit of respect for the universe they were playing in.

*sigh*

[STL]

One thing I get reading these DC panels and itnerviews is the sense of the broader universe. Really makes you feel part of something bigger. And that's really helped me expand into the DC franchise, wanting to know a bit more about characters here and there.

Even their treatment of villain's is better than Marvel. Deathstroke, who is new to me, feels like a bona fide threat in every title he appears or is mentioned in. At Marvel, it's either a Doombot, a raving lunatic villain who's a shadow of his former self, a female-version of a villain that will last for one arc. etc etc.

I miss Marvel's old days but if DC keeps this up, I'll find a new home.

[Drink]

Has anybody at SD mentioned me not being around?
Nope. I don't think anyone has even mentioned you at all in the last few months.

Anyway, regarding Steph, whether you cared for her or not, one thing you have to admit is that Batman would be -should be- affected by her death, whether or not she was "really Robin". The explanation that they're trying to give us is utterly contrived, and is frankly a ____ answer.

I mean, would it really hurt the dynamic of the Bat-books to have a Spoiler case in the background occasionally? Or even just make a big deal of it for one issue and never show it again. If nothing else, it will humour those fans who will keep asking for a memorial, and give them some closure on that matter.

The fact that Steph's last words to Batman were "Was I really Robin?" and given Batman's response "Of course you were" immediately shoots down their reasoning, assuming that Batman isn't lying to her on her deathbed. In which case, Batman is a much bigger asshole than we have ever realised.

[Nukeboy]

"When will we see some redemption for Dr. Leslie Thompkins?" Willingham: "It was handed down to me, but the character never appealed to me anyway."

You know what? Screw you, Willingham. Screw you and the horse you rode in on. You didn't like the character, so you didn't bother, oh, looking at her personality, maybe doing some research, checking out a couple of past issues - nope, you just thought in that tiny brain of yours maybe you had a good idea and you ran with it.


For one thing, you can know a lot about a character and still not like or care about them. For another, it sounds like the Leslie Thompkins thing was an editorial decision.

[Dalarsco]

"Are you ever going to bring Swamp Thing back into the DCU?" Wayne: "Dan would certainly like to bring Swamp Thing back into the DC Universe," and DiDio added that as long as Swamp Thing is part of Vertigo, they can't do anything with him.

________. If something created for Vertigo like The Book of Destiny can be an important plot device in The Brave and the Bold then a character originally in the regular DC who was moved to Vertigo can come back.

[joe.perez]

The book of Destiny appeared years before it re-appeared in Sandman

[khuxford]

Let me get it straight-sales went up when she was Robin and they still didn't think it was a good idea to keep her around somehow (shakes head in disbelief)?

Best wishes,

Scott

Say it with me: GIMMICK SALES. I'm sure there was a bit of a sales spike for Azrael as Batman, initially. There was a bump for Blue Superman, too, I'm sure.

[crashed]

I figured somehow Teen Titans would be involved with Amazons Attack, or atleast the team'd mention it considering Cassie was an "honorary" amazon.

That's honestly pretty sad that they won't put a memorial glass costume case up for Stephanie. :[

Who else wants Ted Kord back? I know I do! That mess with Manhunter was completely dissapointing, even if I knew it was too good to be true.

[silverbolt]

Jimmy Palmiotti and Amanda Conner were up to plate next. Conner talked about <b>Terra</b>, saying that it's a new character taking the mantle. Conner also teased that there's a "brief" scene in the series where Terra is "clothes free" in Dr. Mid-Nite's lab. Palmiotti talked about <b>Countdown</b>, but, as par for the course, didn't reveal much.



um, Im probably the only one who's read this, why are they talking like the character hasnt been introduced yet?
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f305/jsoto66/14121_2_012.jpg

[khuxford]

um, Im probably the only one who's read this, why are they talking like the character hasnt been introduced yet?
http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f305/jsoto66/14121_2_012.jpg

Same reason they answer questions at the panel that anyone reading sites like Newsarama or CBR already know the answers to: not everyone has read everything. :D Also, there's probably a percentage of fans that are still saying, "dude...that can soooooooooo be a cloned, brainwashed old school Terra, man." :p

[Wright Blan]

Spoiler was a great character. I miss her very much.

There was some theory that she had to die so that Batman still had a sidekick to mourn after Jason came back. Apparently, that's not the case, but since she is dead, why not exploit it as a big symbol for Batman?
I don't understand the reason.

Unless she is not really dead... But I don't want to be to optimistic...

I get that feeling, too. It'd be the best way to fix a bad idea.

The other way, of course, is for Doc Leslie to drop her corpse in a Lazarus Pit. Fun insues promptly.

[EMeadow]

Say it with me: GIMMICK SALES. I'm sure there was a bit of a sales spike for Azrael as Batman, initially. There was a bump for Blue Superman, too, I'm sure.

LOL A BIT of a bump for AzBats? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh t. :D

The bump for Electrosupes though I'm sure came and went pretty fast. Though I'm sure it was initially pretty big. (Got some fun mainstream coverage as I recall.)

[EMeadow]

Same reason they answer questions at the panel that anyone reading sites like Newsarama or CBR already know the answers to: not everyone has read everything. :D Also, there's probably a percentage of fans that are still saying, "dude...that can soooooooooo be a cloned, brainwashed old school Terra, man." :p

LOL well the last brainwashed, pulled from the timestream Terra is still out there.

[khuxford]

LOL A BIT of a bump for AzBats? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigh t. :D

The bump for Electrosupes though I'm sure came and went pretty fast. Though I'm sure it was initially pretty big. (Got some fun mainstream coverage as I recall.)

That's my point. There was actually a smaller bit of mainstream coverage for a female Robin, too. So the sales going up isn't an indicator of it being a great and interesting move. (I never read it, so I'm not trying to say it was or wasn't...just deconstructing the "evidence" used)

[Terram]

That's my point. There was actually a smaller bit of mainstream coverage for a female Robin, too. So the sales going up isn't an indicator of it being a great and interesting move. (I never read it, so I'm not trying to say it was or wasn't...just deconstructing the "evidence" used) Your point is that an development that actually garners mainstream attention disqualifies it as being "interesting"? (Promoted as a girl Robin no less, something which Didio then does an about face after her terribly written death, and promptly denies)

[Jerry Fell]

Has anybody at SD mentioned me not being around?

Nope. I don't think anyone has even mentioned you at all in the last few months.

I think ROBRAM89 was asking around for him, here and there.

.

[jmcl89]

I kind of understood the desire to thin out the enormous army of Bat-people around the time of War Games, and get back to more of a classic lone-wolf Batman. But the manner in which both Spoiler and Leslie were disposed of was really awful. If they were going to give Stephanie such a horrific death, it really should have had a serious lingering affect on Batman (and on Tim - the only character that really seemed to feel it was Cassandra). If they wanted her dead and forgotten, they could have at least given her a less sadistic and more heroic demise.

At any rate, I imagine she's a character Dan DiDio doesn't really like being asked about. I wouldn't, if I were him.

[khuxford]

Your point is that an development that actually garners mainstream attention disqualifies it as being "interesting"? (Promoted as a girl Robin no less, something which Didio then does an about face after her terribly written death, and promptly denies)

Please don't be purposely obtuse or read one sentence and decide you know what my whole post says, sir. As I said, I'm not taking a position one way or another on whether it was "good" or "interesting", but simply tearing down someone using the "sales bump" as evidence that it was either. Many a bad idea has had a short term sales bump. Spoiler wasn't Robin long enough to see if people stayed beyond the "gimmick" period.

Edit: lest I make it more confusing, I want to point out, again, that I'm not passing judgment on the Spoiler/Robin thing...I'm just saying that a short term sales bump doesn't really qualify a change as popular or interesting.

[beetlebabe]

Man, I hope we get to see Ted again. I'm sure Booster could use some cheering up.

[sonicwhammy]

Perhaps CBR's recap of Willingham's comments provides a little more insight into his intent with Spoiler:

Willingham volunteered more information on the Spoiler/Robin topic. “It’s kind of my fault, the whole Stephanie/Robin thing. I went into writing ‘Robin’ [at that time] with a condition attached that by such-and-such an issue Stephanie is doomed, I knew that going into it.”

“There’s this bar across from DC,” Willingham continued. “We were all in this bar, the drinks were flowing and Bob Schreck was running the Bat office at the time. I said to him ‘If we have to kill spoiler, out of respect for the character can we give her one good moment for the character before we crush her like a bug. Let’s make her Robin for a little while.’ The only condition was to make sure that she’s out of the Robin costume and in the Spoiler costume before [she dies] because the one thing we don’t want to do is have Batman go through losing another Robin. If there wasn’t enough time between those events and was she Robin or was she not Robin, that’s my fault.”

The full recap is here:
http://comicbookresources.com/news/newsitem.cgi?id=10025

[jmyoung]

Oops. I reread the original post more carefully.

[jmyoung]

You can't blame someone for thinking a character is uninteresting - however if you think that character is uninteresting, why write about them? If you don't like a character, why not just ignore them, until someone wants to write about them?

It does not sound like Bill had a choice.

[khuxford]

It does not sound like Bill had a choice.

Yeah...Bill didn't seem to have a choice. What Bill is offering to dive on the grenade about is the big argument being made about why there isn't a monument to Spoiler in the Batcave. Batman didn't want Spoiler operating as a vigilante...supposedly didn't approve of her as Robin...and DC didn't want her strongly identified as Robin around when she died, because they didn't want to deal with Batman losing another Robin as additional baggage for the character. It seems like DC would have preferred not to muddy the sidekick waters with another dead Robin and that, instead of misogynist reasons, is why she doesn't get a monument to her in the Batcave.

[jmyoung]

"When will we see some redemption for Dr. Leslie Thompkins?" Willingham: "It was handed down to me, but the character never appealed to me anyway."

You know what? Screw you, Willingham. Screw you and the horse you rode in on. You didn't like the character, so you didn't bother, oh, looking at her personality, maybe doing some research, checking out a couple of past issues - nope, you just thought in that tiny brain of yours maybe you had a good idea and you ran with it.

Why does this make me so angry, when I just bleah at Didio's "no case, she wasn't a Robin, stfu" comment about Spoiler? I don't know. Maybe I've given up on Didio.

But I thought at least one of them might have had a bit of respect for the universe they were playing in.

*sigh*


Wow. I never read Bill's Robin, but his Vertigo stuff has been nothing less than fantastic. His Shadowpact stuff is good as well, although not great like his Vertigo stuff.

[jmyoung]

Your point is that an development that actually garners mainstream attention disqualifies it as being "interesting"? (Promoted as a girl Robin no less, something which Didio then does an about face after her terribly written death, and promptly denies)


No, that was not the OP's point at all. He was responding to someone else opining that sales increasing when Stephanie was Robin was one more reason was DC was stupid to kill her. Basically, his argument was there were not enough issues with her as Robin to draw that conclusion as any spike in sales could be attributed to a novelty factor and mainstream attention.

The OP also stated he had not read the issues in question and has no opinion on their quality.

[khuxford]

No, that was not the OP's point at all. He was responding to someone else opining that sales increasing when Stephanie was Robin was one more reason was DC was stupid to kill her. Basically, his argument was there were not enough issues with her as Robin to draw that conclusion as any spike in sales could be attributed to a novelty factor and mainstream attention.

The OP also stated he had not read the issues in question and has no opinion on their quality.

Thanks...you got the point rather well. :D

[ziza9]

i didn't even know stephanie brown was robin till i saw it on wikipedia. aka she's not a big deal.

Word. And five years as a Robin beats 6 months anyday. Whether the Robin in question was a jerk or not. (and yeah I voted the little punk dead, but whatcha gonna do?) The DKR Robin counts for sure, but a 6-monther...eh, not so much.

[BOP Fan]

Say it with me: GIMMICK SALES. I'm sure there was a bit of a sales spike for Azrael as Batman, initially. There was a bump for Blue Superman, too, I'm sure.


I will point out that they gave Azrael a book that ran for 100 issues. Stephanie,they killed ignominiously. They took advantage of reader interest in Azarael-gimmick or no gimmick to get a book that ran for over 8 years. Why not take advantage of the interest that he gimmick gave people in Stephanie?


Best wishes,

Scott

[BOP Fan]

Yeah...Bill didn't seem to have a choice. What Bill is offering to dive on the grenade about is the big argument being made about why there isn't a monument to Spoiler in the Batcave. Batman didn't want Spoiler operating as a vigilante...supposedly didn't approve of her as Robin...and DC didn't want her strongly identified as Robin around when she died, because they didn't want to deal with Batman losing another Robin as additional baggage for the character. It seems like DC would have preferred not to muddy the sidekick waters with another dead Robin and that, instead of misogynist reasons, is why she doesn't get a monument to her in the Batcave.


So why kill her in the first place:confused:

Best wishes,

Scott

[khuxford]

So why kill her in the first place:confused:

Best wishes,

Scott

I don't know a good reason for it. They apparently wanted to shrink the cast of characters down. Why they needed to kill her rather than send her off somewhere...especially in such a horrific way...I dunno...

[RDFozz]

More detailed report from Comicscontinuum

* DiDio said The Spectre will be appearing in a guest-star role in a mini-series that features a character he is familiar with.



Spectre/Question? Renee was his partner....

RD Francis

[spacekicker]

Black Adam doesnt die. Didio did one of his slip ups and said that he was getting his own series I believe.

[khuxford]

Black Adam doesnt die. Didio did one of his slip ups and said that he was getting his own series I believe.

With how long the character has been around, there are plenty of years of his life to fall back on for a story. Or there's the whole legacy thing...

[Herald]

I don't know a good reason for it.

There isn't one.

[Johnny Triangles]

So why kill her in the first place:confused:

Best wishes,

Scott

Because it's tacky, exploitative, gimmicky and crass. Meaning it's right up Didio's alley.

[BOP Fan]

I don't know a good reason for it. They apparently wanted to shrink the cast of characters down. Why they needed to kill her rather than send her off somewhere...especially in such a horrific way...I dunno...

My point exactly-there really was no reason to kill her off. DC got a lot of fan resentment and tangled themselves into knots storywise for no good reason. There was still a lot that could have been with Stephanie storywise even if they didn't want to use her in the Bat Books (personally,I think she'd have been a natural for the Titans. I think it would've been interesting to see Stephanie who has no superpowers or special skills-just determination -struggling to keep up with these superpowered beings...)

Best wishes,

Scott

[LuisMa316]

well, i, for one, sure as hell hope so!

seriously, i'm sympathetic to the guy -- yes, it absolutely sucked what happened to his wife, brother-in-law and country.

but, um, er, well...HE KILLED A FREAKING COUNTRY! again, i say for emphasis, HE KILLED A FREAKING COUNTRY!

unless there's an alien parasite named "Homicidal Maniac" that's grafted itself to his soul, let's not forget that BLACK ADAM KILLED A FREAKING COUNTRY!

yes, Mr. DiDio, you are right: Deasthstroke is a bad guy and shouldn't get a book.

let's just say, for the sake of argument, that when you kill, oh, A MILLION PEOPLE OR SO, you've crossed the threshold of being "a bad guy."

Black Adam's well past that threshold, right?

well seeing as this country helped hid the person who killed his family i dont blame him


It just makes him an Anti-hero

I mean Punisher kills too and he has his own book

[Terram]

I'm sure all those babies and elderly Black Adam murdered would understand that line of reasoning.