MARVEL DISPUTES STAN LEE MEDIA LAWSUIT

[MattBrady]

According to the website <a href=http://vfxworld.com/ target=new>vfxworld</a>, Stan Lee Media, having just recently emerged from bankruptcy protection on Dec. 6, 2006, today filed $5 billion suit against Marvel Entertainment. According to <i>vfxworld</i>, Stan Lee Media is claiming co-ownership of all Stan Lee's co-creations for Marvel, including Spider-Man, X-Men and the Incredible Hulk. Stan Lee Media is reportedly requesting half of Marvel's earnings derived from those creations, in addition to damages and legal fees.

According to <i>vfxworld</i>, the Stan Lee Media suit claims that following, “…that throughout his employment with Marvel Stan Lee retained the co-creator rights to all his characters. In Aug. 1998 when Marvel terminated Stan Lee's employment, he regained those rights. Lee then went and formed the dotcom firm Stan Lee Media as a way to tap into the Internet boom. On Oct. 15, 1998, he signed over not only his creations to the new firm, but his likeness as well. Then in Nov. 1998, Lee individually entered an employment agreement with Marvel, signing over his Marvel characters and likeness to Marvel, despite having already signed over the rights to Stan Lee Media. The suit claims Stan Lee Media informed Marvel of their contract and that Marvel "independently and/or in collusion with Stan Lee, intentionally concealed the material terms" of Marvel's new agreement from Stan Lee Media, the public and its own shareholders.”

Late Thursday evening, Marvel Entertainment, Inc. issued the following press release disputing the suit by Stan Lee Media. Marvel's statement also claims that Stan Lee himself is suing the company that bears his name and is challenging the legitimacy of it's current post-bankruptcy management, and that Stan Lee does not support this action by Stan Lee Media.

The full press release follows…

<i>Press Release</i>

<blockquote>NEW YORK--March 15, 2007--Marvel Entertainment, Inc. (NYSE: MVL), reported that a claim was filed today in United States District Court for the Southern District of New York by Stan Lee Media, Inc. The claim against Marvel Entertainment alleges that nine years ago Stan Lee transferred to Stan Lee Media ownership of a number of Marvel comic book characters he co-created. Marvel believes that the claim against it is without merit and that it will prevail in this dispute.

Stan Lee Media was recently in bankruptcy and is being sued by Stan Lee. In his suit, Mr. Lee is challenging the legitimacy of the management of Stan Lee Media. Mr. Lee is a long-time employee of Marvel and its predecessor companies and currently serves as Publisher Emeritus of Marvel Comics. Mr. Lee commented that, "I do not support this action and believe the suit to be baseless."

About Marvel Entertainment, Inc.

With a library of over 5,000 characters, Marvel Entertainment, Inc. is one of the world's most prominent character-based entertainment companies. Marvel's operations are focused on utilizing its character franchises in licensing, entertainment, publishing and toys. Areas of emphasis include feature films, DVD/home video, consumer products, video games, action figures and role-playing toys, television and promotions. Rooted in the creative success of over sixty years of comic book publishing, Marvel's strategy is to leverage its character franchises in a growing array of opportunities around the world.</blockquote>

[The Champion]

I gotta say some of the wording in this press release is confusing to me.

Especially the part about Stan Lee Media being sued by Stan Lee. Huh? Stan's suing himself? Is he not the head of Stan Lee Media?

[WildcardZ]

This sounds really strange. I wonder what characters they are suing for?

[HankPym]

Sounds pretty ridiculous. Should be swatted down in no time.

[Dave_Garcia]

I gotta say some of the wording in this press release is confusing to me.

Especially the part about Stan Lee Media being sued by Stan Lee. Huh? Stan's suing himself? Is he not the head of Stan Lee Media?

From the article:

In his suit, Mr. Lee is challenging the legitimacy of the management of Stan Lee Media.

Unless he is suing himself for incompetence, he doesn't run SLM.

[Dalarsco]

Rule of thumb: When the guy who your company is named after tells you you are full of ____, you are most likely full of ____.

[Violent Gorilla]

I gotta say some of the wording in this press release is confusing to me.

Especially the part about Stan Lee Media being sued by Stan Lee. Huh? Stan's suing himself? Is he not the head of Stan Lee Media?


No one person runs a corporation. There are boards and shareholders who make the decisions, and they don't always have to be on the same page as the person who founded the company. It's how Ted Turner was kicked out of CNN. It's how Steve Jobs was forced out at Apple (before they brought him back, anyway).

I don't have all the facts, but I'd wager that the guys who were in charge of the day to day operations of Stan Lee media ran the thing into the ground and Stan wants back what he invested in it. The guys in charge of Stan Lee Media, on the other hand, are making a half hearted play to get some royalties on the characters Stan created so they won't have to shut down completely. Seriously unlikely that they'll get that, though.

[Arion]

So, who is running Stan Lee Media?

[Howard]

http://www.vfxworld.com/?sa=adv&code=3631a5a1&atype=news&id=19310

Having just emerged from bankruptcy protection on Dec. 6, 2006, Stan Lee Media, today (March 15, 2007), filed suit against Marvel Ent. worth $5 billion. In the suit, Stan Lee Media is claiming co-ownership of all Stan Lee's co-creations for Marvel, including Spider-Man, X-Men and the Incredible Hulk. Stan Lee Media requests half of Marvel's earnings derived from those creations, in addition to damages and legal fees.

I wonder if Peter Paul is still involved with SLM and he's behind this tomfoolery?

[Baron Banter]

Here's something I found from when they had their scandal

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,44491,00.html

[OM]

...You know, it wouldn't surprise me that when it's all said and done, the reason Steve Rogers was killed off along with Black Goliath is that they were both characters SLM claims they now own.

There are boards and shareholders who make the decisions, and they don't always have to be on the same page as the person who founded the company. It's how Ted Turner was kicked out of CNN. It's how Steve Jobs was forced out at Apple (before they brought him back, anyway)....Turner was kicked out because he objected to the way CNN was turning from news stories to talking heads doing talk shows. Larry King Live was one thing, but when you turn on CNN these days, it's easily two hours before you get a news update as they've dedicated the network to Anderson Cooper and the rest of his ilk.

As for (cr)Apple, everyone knows Jobs was ousted over his coke habits, the embezzling that allowed it, and his screwing up the "Color Mac" monitor deal...

[The Spirit]

Huh?:confused:

I wonder what characters Stan Lee wants among other things.

[donkeypuncho]

So... just wondering.. does Paul Jenkins get any royalties for the now popular Sentry? Or BKV for runaways? I'm guessing not

[tiso_spencer]

When you can sue yourself..... America home of the retarded.

[Colonsus]

...You know, it wouldn't surprise me that when it's all said and done, the reason Steve Rogers was killed off along with Black Goliath is that they were both characters SLM claims they now own


Riiiiiight.

This story is one of the most bizarre I've read in ages, and that comment is up there for ridiculosity, too!

[AbacusComics]

Huh? Wha?

I'm going back to bed.

[superboy072]

I'm more surprised at how few people who have written so far clearly haven't even read the article.

[Darkseider]

When you can sue yourself..... America home of the retarded.


Reread the article carefully. Stan Lee isn't suing himself. He created a company called Stan Lee Media then he left the company. At that point the company no longer has ties to Stan Lee the man (If you follow video games this happens a lot. A developer create a company that make a good game, sells the company to EA then they leave to create another company.).

Allegedly, Stan Lee (the man) signed over his ownership of specific Marvel characters to Stan Lee Media (the company). It is kinda in the same ballbark of the Miracle Man issue. If Marvel lost (which they won't. At worst, if Stan Lee Media does have a legitamite greviance, Marvel will settle out of court and buy the rights from Stan Lee Media for a couple of million. Otherwise it would be a long drawn out legal battle that I doubt Stan Lee Media would have the funds to maintain concidering they just got out of bankrupcy.)

At least this would have a better ending than Civil War.:D

[imemine98]

When you can sue yourself..... America home of the retarded.

It's not the first time.

John Fogerty was the lead singer/songwriter of Creedence Clearwater Revival. He wrote a bunch of hit songs for them.

When he became a solo artist he wrote a song that seemed very familiar to one he wrote from when he was with CCR. Some of the other disgruntled band members sued John Fogerty for ripping off a CCR song, despite the fact he wrote them both. In effect he was sued for stealing music from himself.

He won the case when he played both songs for the judge.

[Darkseider]

I'm more surprised at how few people who have written so far clearly haven't even read the article.


Specially when Matt specifically mentioned that Stan Lee Media (a company) and NOT Stan Lee (the man) was suing Marvel. As long as he keeps getting cameos in Marvel's movies Stan is happy.

[sweetmisery]

Either people are trying to be funny(too obvious jokes) or they are that dense and stupid... lol

[nickmaynard]

...You know, it wouldn't surprise me that when it's all said and done, the reason Steve Rogers was killed off along with Black Goliath is that they were both characters SLM claims they now own.

stan lee didn't create captain america. and black goliath makes 0 dollars annually.


and let me also say, STAN LEE IS NOT SUING HIMSELF! he started the company, then he left the company, now the company exists separately.

[Robb Welch]

...You know, it wouldn't surprise me that when it's all said and done, the reason Steve Rogers was killed off along with Black Goliath is that they were both characters SLM claims they now own.
I would like to point out that Steve Rogers was created in Captain America #1. And that Stan Lee's first credited comic book work was not until a short prose story in Captain America #4. So.. no. Thats just not possible.

Without a time machine.
Doctor Doom has a time machine.
And Stan DID co-create Doom.....

As for Black Goliath..... I'm not sure who created him, but I'm fairly sure he was created in the 80's, while Stan was off making Muppet Babies.


I would also like to second the notion that its obvious as least half the posts on this subject are by readers who obviously have not read the article. [not at all directed to the above quote, mind you]

[JKA]

this is ridiculous.

[John Cord]

This is an interesting, if bizarre, bit of news. I don't think that Stan Lee Media will be acquiring any of the revenue that Marvel "owes" them.

With a bone-headed play like this coming out in the news, it's easy to see why Stan Lee is upset with the people running SLM into the ground. First his 'buddy' Peter Paul robs the company blind, and now the internet company is attempting to kill the golden goose itself.

Idiocy.

[Violent Gorilla]

...You know, it wouldn't surprise me that when it's all said and done, the reason Steve Rogers was killed off along with Black Goliath is that they were both characters SLM claims they now own.

...Turner was kicked out because he objected to the way CNN was turning from news stories to talking heads doing talk shows. Larry King Live was one thing, but when you turn on CNN these days, it's easily two hours before you get a news update as they've dedicated the network to Anderson Cooper and the rest of his ilk.

As for (cr)Apple, everyone knows Jobs was ousted over his coke habits, the embezzling that allowed it, and his screwing up the "Color Mac" monitor deal...

I wasn't talking about why, I was talking about how it's able to happen.

[Nakedmanatee]

I would like to point out that Steve Rogers was created in Captain America #1. And that Stan Lee's first credited comic book work was not until a short prose story in Captain America #4. So.. no. Thats just not possible.

Without a time machine.
Doctor Doom has a time machine.
And Stan DID co-create Doom.....

As for Black Goliath..... I'm not sure who created him, but I'm fairly sure he was created in the 80's, while Stan was off making Muppet Babies.


I would also like to second the notion that its obvious as least half the posts on this subject are by readers who obviously have not read the article. [not at all directed to the above quote, mind you]

Ewww.
Sorry. Just the image of Stan "off making Muppet Babies." ;)

yr. buddy,
David

[David P. Lyons]

When you can sue yourself..... America home of the retarded.

Again, it's not "suing yourself." Stan Lee is being sued by a corporate entity named Stan Lee Media: they aren't the same persons. They simply share a name, one designed, on the part of the corporate entity, to trade on Lee's popularity.

Jesus Christ, this isn't quantum physics. Get a real job.

[smrtbob]

damn suing for ALL his creations? that's nuts... desperate grab for money? marvel's gotta have some extra attorneys lying around.

[Zeodiego]

Later career

In later years, Lee became a figurehead and public face for Marvel Comics. He made appearances at comic book conventions around America, lecturing at colleges and participating in panel discussions. He moved to California in 1981 to develop Marvel's TV and movie properties. He has been an executive producer for, and has made cameo appearances in Marvel film adaptations and other movies.

Lee was befriended by a former lawyer named Peter Paul, who supervised the negotiation of a non-exclusive contract with Marvel Comics for the first time in Lee's lifetime employment with Marvel. This enabled Paul and Lee to start a new Internet-based superhero creation, production and marketing studio, Stan Lee Media, in 1998. It grew to 165 people and went public, but near the end of 2000, investigators discovered illegal stock manipulation by Paul and corporate officer Stephan Gordon.[7] Stan Lee Media filed for bankruptcy in February 2001, and Paul fled to São Paulo, Brazil.[8][9] He was extradited back to the U.S., and pled guilty to violating SEC Regulation 10(b)5 in connection with trading of his stock in Stan Lee Media.[10][11] Lee was never implicated in the scheme.

Some of the Stan Lee Media projects included the animated Web series The 7th Portal where he voiced the character Izayus; The Drifter; and The Accuser. The 7th Portal characters were licensed to an interactive 3-D movie attraction in four Paramount theme parks.

In the 2000s, Lee did his first work for DC Comics, launching the Just Imagine... series, in which Lee reimagined the DC superheroes Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern and the Flash.

Lee created the risqué animated superhero series Stripperella for Spike TV. In 2004, he announced plans to collaborate with Hugh Hefner on a similar superhero cartoon featuring Playboy Playmates.[citation needed] He also announced a superhero program that would feature Ringo Starr, the former Beatle, as the lead character.[12] Additionally, in August of that year, Lee announced the launch of Stan Lee's Sunday Comics,[13] hosted by Komikwerks.com, where monthly subscribers could read a new, updated comic and "Stan's Soapbox" every Sunday. The column has not been updated since Feb. 15, 2005.

In 2005, Lee, Gill Champion and Arthur Lieberman formed POW! (Purveyors of Wonder) Entertainment to develop film, television and video game properties. The first film produced by POW! was the TV movie Lightspeed (also advertised as Stan Lee's Lightspeed), which aired on the Sci Fi Channel on July 26, 2006. POW! president and CEO Champion said in 2005 that Lee was creating a new superhero, Foreverman, for a Paramount Pictures movie, in tandem with producer Robert Evans and Idiom Films, with Peter Briggs hired to collaborate with Lee on the screenplay.[14]

Lee in 2005 filed a lawsuit against Marvel for his unpaid share of profits from Marvel movies, winning a settlement of more than $10 million.

Marvel, in 2006, commemorated Lee's 65 years with the company by publishing a series of one-shot comics starring Lee himself meeting and interacting with many of his creations, including Spider-Man, Dr. Strange, The Thing, Silver Surfer and Dr. Doom. These comics also featured short pieces by such comics creators as Joss Whedon and Fred Hembeck, as well as reprints of classic Lee-written adventures.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

there is just one thing in this post worth reading http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Just_Imagine...

[grendel824]

So... just wondering.. does Paul Jenkins get any royalties for the now popular Sentry? Or BKV for runaways? I'm guessing not


Actually, I think they would, though I don't think the numbers are there for them to see anything (and I'm not sure if it's exactly the same as "royalties").

[Alextron]

Next Stan Lee Media (not Stan Lee) will be claiming they own Miracle Man.

As for Creedance Clearwater Revival, a guitar teacher once told me they hardly got any money out of their songs because they signed way the ownership or something.

This is ridiculous. Stan never owned those characters.

[Kolimar]

I hope both Marvel and Stan kick SLM's collective ass. :mad: :p :D

[ColonelLee]

There are those people (I am one of those) who believe that Jack Kirby created the majority of what is now known as Marvel Comics. I mean, how many successful iconic characters did Stan create before he hooked up with Jack Kirby? How many after Kirby left? I don't know of any.

Stan Lee was a great editor. Jack Kirby was a great creator.

So what you got here is two legal entities fighting over creation rights to characters that neither created.

[Kolimar]

I'm more surprised at how few people who have written so far clearly haven't even read the article.

Unfortunately, I'm not. Sigh... :p :D ;)

[Drcharles]

I thought aa lot of these claims had already been settled.
But Stan as a legitimate claim to some degree, as Marvel certainly wouldn't have been the company it is today without 'Stan the Mans' involvement.
Shame is as to come to this........

[theodoros2]

Everybody will loose.
The lowyers will win a lot of money.

Marvel Civil War 2

[Kolimar]

I thought aa lot of these claims had already been settled.
But Stan as a legitimate claim to some degree, as Marvel certainly wouldn't have been the company it is today without 'Stan the Mans' involvement.
Shame is as to come to this........

Re-read the article and read the thread. :p :D ;)

[Scorned1]

I am the last man to defend Marvel but this is just stupid. This is the same kind of thing when the creators of Superman claiming ownership from DC. This is not good for the industry. What are these morons at Stan Lee Media think they are doing? Feels like someone there is too greedy for their good. Stan Lee himself should put a stop to this here and now so that there won't be any bad blood between Stan Lee and Marvel.

[Kolimar]

I am the last man to defend Marvel but this is just stupid. This is the same kind of thing when the creators of Superman claiming ownership from DC. This is not good for the industry. What are these morons at Stan Lee Media think they are doing? Feels like someone there is too greedy for their good. Stan Lee himself should put a stop to this here and now so that there won't be any bad blood between Stan Lee and Marvel.

It's not up to him. Marvel's own press release says he doesn't support this action and believes the suit to be baseless. Reading it would help. :D ;)

[TheToileteer]

I find it hard to believe that Stan Lee could have come to own Marvel characters, and thus be in a position to sell them to Peter Paul. (Hey, two people without surnames! No wonder they clicked.) Or that he would have attempted to sell something that he didn't own. Won't PP have to come up with some sort of contract to this effect before the trial, to demonstrate that he has a case?

As an aside, Marvel says it has a library of 5000 characters ready for licensing, when the number which actually bring them any money would be closer to 50.

[Mike Norris]

There are those people (I am one of those) who believe that Jack Kirby created the majority of what is now known as Marvel Comics. I mean, how many successful iconic characters did Stan create before he hooked up with Jack Kirby? How many after Kirby left? I don't know of any.

Stan Lee was a great editor. Jack Kirby was a great creator.

So what you got here is two legal entities fighting over creation rights to characters that neither created.

Spider-Man, Daredevil & Doctor Strange. While comics are a visual medium I think its wrong to discredit the role writers and editors have in the process.

[Kolimar]

As an aside, Marvel says it has a library of 5000 characters ready for licensing, when the number which actually bring them any money would be closer to 50.

Yeah but most, if not all, have the potential to bring them money. That's the point of the "5000 characters" thing. Prior to the first movie, very few people (including me :p) believed Blade could be such a success. The Mort The Dead Teenager movie project and the Brother Voodoo TV project are even better examples that anything's possible. :D

[WebHobbit]

It's not the first time.

John Fogerty was the lead singer/songwriter of Creedence Clearwater Revival. He wrote a bunch of hit songs for them.

When he became a solo artist he wrote a song that seemed very familiar to one he wrote from when he was with CCR. Some of the other disgruntled band members sued John Fogerty for ripping off a CCR song, despite the fact he wrote them both. In effect he was sued for stealing music from himself.

He won the case when he played both songs for the judge.


Actually it was Saul Zaentz (owner of Fantasy records & now the Lord Of The Rings stuff) that sued Fogerty...the same dude that sent lawyers after me. See here:

http://webhobbit.com


As for this Stan Lee Media suit....this is quite the odd news!

[EmeraldGuy32]

Shouldn't they be asking for 1/4 of the profits? I mean, Stan is only co-creator, and if half goes to Marvel, why should Stan get Ditko/Kirby's half?

[absherlock]

How are the characters created by Stan for Marvel not covered under "work-for-hire"? All arguments of "morally he's entitled to more" aside, can someone please explain this?

[Abstrakt]

How are the characters created by Stan for Marvel not covered under "work-for-hire"? All arguments of "morally he's entitled to more" aside, can someone please explain this?

stan, unlike man other creators at the time, made a deal with marvel with all the creations he made that gave him part of the rights to the characters

its not that he was morally entitled, he was legally entitled. kirby and all of the other creators were morally entitled.

[Hokeyboy]

The amount of people whose reading comprehension skills are at abysmal levels is staggering. :eek:

[rahnefan]

I wonder if one sees it coming: becoming so big that you have to fight your own name. Weird, weird news.

[Bevbos]

I'm more surprised at how few people who have written so far clearly haven't even read the article.

Yeah, really. Honestly, this makes me wonder if Stan the Man didn't accidentally make a colossal mistake. I guess we'll know soon enough. Hope this doesn't screw him, or Marvel, up...

[delawarejoel]

It's not the first time.

John Fogerty was the lead singer/songwriter of Creedence Clearwater Revival. He wrote a bunch of hit songs for them.

When he became a solo artist he wrote a song that seemed very familiar to one he wrote from when he was with CCR. Some of the other disgruntled band members sued John Fogerty for ripping off a CCR song, despite the fact he wrote them both. In effect he was sued for stealing music from himself.

He won the case when he played both songs for the judge.

I think it even goes further back than that - Fogerty wrote all the songs back in the '60's and '70's and then signed the rights away to a guy named Saul Zaentz who was the owner of CCR's record company. (Saul Zaentz may be familiar to some as the guy who owns the film rights to The Lord of the Rings, which he made a bit of money off of thanks to Peter Jackson)...I believe Fogerty tried several times to sue Zaentz for mismanagement of the songs and for years wouldnt even play them live because then Zaentz would get royalties. He wrote a song on his Centerfield album called "Zanz Cant Dance" about a pig named Zanz who steals from people - Saul Zaentz sued Fogerty for defamation of character and won - Fogerty had to change the song to "Vanz Cant Dance"....anyway, just goes to show that when you are both a person, and a corporation, and an artist, you can end up have three different relationships to the same work - that's what's driving this whole Stan Lee thing....

[delawarejoel]

As for Black Goliath..... I'm not sure who created him, but I'm fairly sure he was created in the 80's, while Stan was off making Muppet Babies.


[not at all directed to the above quote, mind you]

Black Goliath first appeared in Luke Cage, Power Man, #24, April, 1975 - he was Luke Cage's girlfriend's ex-husband, as well as Hank Pym's former lab assistant.

[delawarejoel]

There are those people (I am one of those) who believe that Jack Kirby created the majority of what is now known as Marvel Comics. I mean, how many successful iconic characters did Stan create before he hooked up with Jack Kirby? How many after Kirby left? I don't know of any.

Stan Lee was a great editor. Jack Kirby was a great creator.

So what you got here is two legal entities fighting over creation rights to characters that neither created.

And Lee is still alive and even if Jack were alive he couldnt afford those lawyers. But I agree with you on all points.

[aliciabb]

When you can sue yourself..... America home of the retarded.
This quote is so great. I love the retard part.

[jeffcope]

Doesn't Stan Lee Media own (or at least co-own) those Backstreet Boyz comic characters from that old webtoon?

I mean, c'mon, what else could SLM possibly need?

heh.

[jediracer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stan_lee#Later_career

In later years, Lee became a figurehead and public face for Marvel Comics. He made appearances at comic book conventions around America, lecturing at colleges and participating in panel discussions. He moved to California in 1981 to develop Marvel's TV and movie properties. He has been an executive producer for, and has made cameo appearances in Marvel film adaptations and other movies.

Lee was befriended by a former lawyer named Peter Paul, who supervised the negotiation of a non-exclusive contract with Marvel Comics for the first time in Lee's lifetime employment with Marvel. This enabled Paul and Lee to start a new Internet-based superhero creation, production and marketing studio, Stan Lee Media, in 1998. It grew to 165 people and went public, but near the end of 2000, investigators discovered illegal stock manipulation by Paul and corporate officer Stephan Gordon.[7] Stan Lee Media filed for bankruptcy in February 2001, and Paul fled to São Paulo, Brazil.[8][9] He was extradited back to the U.S., and pled guilty to violating SEC Regulation 10(b)5 in connection with trading of his stock in Stan Lee Media.[10][11] Lee was never implicated in the scheme.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_F._Paul#Involvement_in_Stan_Lee_Me dia

In 1998, Paul co-founded Stan Lee Media with comic book legend Stan Lee[1] and took the company public via a reverse-merger into a trading shell in August 1999.[15]

In February, 2000, in the midst of the Internet stock market boom, Stan Lee Media built a 165 person studio, and the company's market capitalization grew to over $370 million.[citation needed] However, at the end of the year, Stan Lee Media ran out of money. Paul alleged in a later civil fraud and coercion suit against Bill and Hillary Clinton that the company failed because of the intervention of Bill Clinton, who he claims persuaded a large investor not to further support the company.[16]

In the aftermath of the company's collapse, it was discovered that Paul and a corporate officer named Stephan Gordon had illegally tried to support the stock's price by using nominee accounts to buy 1.6 million shares of the company's stock, attempting to pay for the stock with bad checks.[17]

In February 2001, Stan Lee Media filed for bankruptcy, and Peter Paul fled to São Paulo, Brazil.[18][19][20] There he managed 112 Interactive do Brazil, a seller of English language acquisition software,[18] and fought extradition.[19]

[vbartilucci]

You'll LOVE this story...

My Mother-in Law was in the hospital, and her daughter (my wife's sister) was going to check up on her. Now, she's not a terribly good driver when she's got a clear head, and she had much on her mond at the moment, and to make a long story short, she hit the hospital. Broadsisded it, wrecked the car.

So my mother in law is in the hospital, and now her car is totaled.

Her lawyer suggested, since her daughter was driver my mother-in-law's car, that her daughter SUE my mother-in-law, so the insurance would pay for the cost of her accident related injuries, and the cost of the new car.

(shake head now...)

As for Stan suing Stan Inc, that's about the same thing. He all but signed the use of his name over to these people, so it seems like everything they're doing, he's doing, which is not the case. Designer Halston actually lost the right to use his own name on clothing when his company came to odds with him.

[pitdroid3]

Ah, good. We have another entry in the "most ridiculous comic arguments" category. I was beginning to fear that the Miracleman issue would remain unchallenged forever.

[vbartilucci]

I think it even goes further back than that - Fogerty wrote all the songs back in the '60's and '70's and then signed the rights away to a guy named Saul Zaentz who was the owner of CCR's record company. (Saul Zaentz may be familiar to some as the guy who owns the film rights to The Lord of the Rings, which he made a bit of money off of thanks to Peter Jackson)...I believe Fogerty tried several times to sue Zaentz for mismanagement of the songs and for years wouldnt even play them live because then Zaentz would get royalties. He wrote a song on his Centerfield album called "Zanz Cant Dance" about a pig named Zanz who steals from people - Saul Zaentz sued Fogerty for defamation of character and won - Fogerty had to change the song to "Vanz Cant Dance"....anyway, just goes to show that when you are both a person, and a corporation, and an artist, you can end up have three different relationships to the same work - that's what's driving this whole Stan Lee thing....
Fogerty signed away the rights to the songs to get out of his contract - he was written out, and near a nervous breakdown, yet Saulron (heh) insisted he fulfill his obligation. Considering how long it took before John could write any more songs, that's a clue as to how serious his situation was.

And to this day, Fogerty's version of the story is "I don't know what all the fuss is about-I just wrote a song about a big fat pig."

First pressings of Centerfield are highly coveted by hardcore Fogerty fans.

Zaentz' connection to LotR for all these years (he's owned the film rights for decades) is the only sadness I have in connection to the films' success. It galls me that he's successful in any way.

BTW, the proper title is "Zanz(Vanz) Kant Danz", and the video was by Will Vinton Productions

[videofarmer]

Wow, nice to see the products of our government schools commenting here.

[Evil Twin]

Stan Lee's played fast and loose with creative rights his whole life. As a non-freelance employee of Marvel he'd have been entitled to nothing, like Julius Schwartz over at DC. Except for the fact that his family owned the company and could cut special deals for him, unlike Ditko and Kirby.

FWIW, I don't think even Stan Lee can claim ownership of Captain America. That's purely a Joe Simon and Jack Kirby creation.

Lee and Marvel likely have good lawyers. And I'm sure Fox and Sony will help if necessary since it potentially could throw off movie rights to some lucrative properties. Of course, without knowing what the contracts that were signed actually say, it's impossible to have any type of definitive opinion. The devil is in the details in contract law.

[vbartilucci]

Stan Lee's played fast and loose with creative rights his whole life. As a non-freelance employee of Marvel he'd have been entitled to nothing, like Julius Schwartz over at DC.
Julie had a lifetime job as editor emeritus at DC mainly out of respect.

This suit is almost certainly a fishing expidition. Marvel has to decide if it's cheaper to actually fight the suit or just settle for some amount of money less than what their legal bills would be.

Considering Stan himself is contesting the suit, they may choose to fight it regardless.

Stan's...not that good of a businessman, is he?

[Iangould]

From the article:

In his suit, Mr. Lee is challenging the legitimacy of the management of Stan Lee Media.

Unless he is suing himself for incompetence, he doesn't run SLM.

Well Rob Liefeld did sue Image for mismagement and incompetence at a time when he was the CEO (or was it President?) of Image.

[BlakSun]

did some of you posters even READ the article before spouting off?

:confused:

[Zombie Uatu]

did some of you posters even READ the article before spouting off?

:confused:

No. Reading is for losers.

In all seriousness, if I were Stan, I'd desperately be trying at this point to find some way to stop SLM using my name. At this point, their use of it is clearly causing disparagment to him, and it could be argued might potentially prevent him from getting work in the future, by making it look like he wastes times on frivolous lawsuits ($10 million says he never wastes time on frivolous lawsuits).

[Hokeyboy]

This quote is so great. I love the retard part.
I hope the irony is not lost on the original poster. :rolleyes:

[vbartilucci]

did some of you posters even READ the article before spouting off?

Of course not, how else could we excercise our right to rant, as clearly specified in the Constitution?

I tell ya, if we ever invented a machine that ran on outrage, we could tell the Middle East to just bugger off.

[Street Carp]

This is retarded! It's disgusting how money hungry some people are. :mad: Leave Stan Lee alone!

(ian)

[rahnefan]

I tell ya, if we ever invented a machine that ran on outrage, we could tell the Middle East to just bugger off.

The tragedy is, subtract the sci-fi and you are almost right. If we invented an automobile that didn't run on oil, they could tell us to bugger off. And we would.

[Flint Reloaded]

As for Black Goliath..... I'm not sure who created him, but I'm fairly sure he was created in the 80's, while Stan was off making Muppet Babies.]


Well.....The character Bill Foster was created in the mid to late 60's. I don't BELIEVE he was in Pyms Astonish adventures but he appeared in the Avengers a few times around when Pym became Goliath. All the original Sons of Serpents stories. He was Hanks assisstant. He became Black Goliath in the mid 70's. He made a fizzled cut-short comeback in a West coast avengers annual in the late 80's then made cameos here and there until his lame death in Civil War. Good guy whose potential never grew...lol

[Spartan]

Sounds pretty ridiculous. Should be swatted down in no time.

That's what I thought about McFarlane's Tony Twist scandal.

:rolleyes: Good luck on Stan Lee Media getting that 5 BILLION.....retards.

I think Stan should aslo add defamation of character to the suit, this just makes his name look bad.

[spiderrob8]

Black Goliath first appeared in Luke Cage, Power Man, #24, April, 1975 - he was Luke Cage's girlfriend's ex-husband, as well as Hank Pym's former lab assistant.

Though the character of Bill Foster first appeared in Avengers by Stan Lee and Don Heck. Circa Avengers 32 or 33, a couple of issues before Roy Thomas took over

[spiderrob8]

I don't believe Stan ever owned the rights to the characters. He was work for hire as well. (Siegel and Shuster were different-they created it pre-working for DC (then National) and thus owned the copyright, and assigned it to DC, a different situation).

However, Marvel likely when tney made the contract with him, had him sign over any rights he MAY have had to the characters, to prevent him from filing any lawsuits and making them look bad, as others had done, but others are not Stan the man. In exchange for that, and i guess his past work and future promotion, he gets $1 million a year, and a percentage of profits from the marvel mvoies (whether he created the characters or not). That was his lawsuit a few years back, which he settled for several million. (not sure if he gave up his right to money for new movies or not-i doubt it).

In the end, I believe Stan had nothing to sign over, to either Marvel or Stan Lee Media.

[SHIM'TAR]

Boys and girls this is really messed up. We are seeing an attack on capitalism and corporate America. I hope this doesn't put the final nail in the coffin for the comics industry as a whole. This systematic suing of rights back from Marvel and DC Comics can not continue. I wonder if this is why Captain America was killed off because maybe Marvel Entertainment knows that bad news is coming down the pike for the Captain America character.

[gypsynuke]

...You know, it wouldn't surprise me that when it's all said and done, the reason Steve Rogers was killed off along with Black Goliath is that they were both characters SLM claims they now own.

...Turner was kicked out because he objected to the way CNN was turning from news stories to talking heads doing talk shows. Larry King Live was one thing, but when you turn on CNN these days, it's easily two hours before you get a news update as they've dedicated the network to Anderson Cooper and the rest of his ilk.

As for (cr)Apple, everyone knows Jobs was ousted over his coke habits, the embezzling that allowed it, and his screwing up the "Color Mac" monitor deal...
But he didn't create Steve Rogers dude.

[superheroNYC]

I would like to point out that Steve Rogers was created in Captain America #1. And that Stan Lee's first credited comic book work was not until a short prose story in Captain America #4. So.. no. Thats just not possible.

Without a time machine.
Doctor Doom has a time machine.
And Stan DID co-create Doom.....

As for Black Goliath..... I'm not sure who created him, but I'm fairly sure he was created in the 80's, while Stan was off making Muppet Babies.


I would also like to second the notion that its obvious as least half the posts on this subject are by readers who obviously have not read the article. [not at all directed to the above quote, mind you]


Black Goliath was created during the Blaxplitation period of the early 70's.

SuperheroNYC

[Hokeyboy]

I would like to point out that Steve Rogers was created in Captain America #1. And that Stan Lee's first credited comic book work was not until a short prose story in Captain America #4. So.. no. Thats just not possible.

Without a time machine.
Doctor Doom has a time machine.
And Stan DID co-create Doom.....

As for Black Goliath..... I'm not sure who created him, but I'm fairly sure he was created in the 80's, while Stan was off making Muppet Babies.


F. Murray Abraham was in Amadeus as well as Scarface.

[Scavenger]

Stan Lee was a great editor. Jack Kirby was a great creator.


Kirby with Lee created the Silver Surfer.
Kirby without Lee created the Black Racer.

'nuff said.

[NoPrize]

What comes around goes around, Not that I have anything against stan the man, but Kirby was chewed up and spit out by the suits, and it appears they are going to do the samething to stan. Lee's argument may prove that how you treat others is how you get treated.

[Hokeyboy]

Kirby with Lee created the Silver Surfer.
Kirby without Lee created the Black Racer.

'nuff said.
Lee with Kirby created the Silver Surfer.
Lee without Kirby created Nightcat, Stripperella, and the entire DC "Just Imagine" line.

'nuff said, indeed. ;)

[joshdahl]

So...

Am I reading that right? There is an Evil Version of Stan Lee who is trying to sieze control of Stan's creations?

Is it the good verion that has the mustache?

This is just too confusing.

Josh Dahl

[J.D. Lombardi]

Ludicris...but I guess some people need to try and make some money when they've got no discernable talents...If Stan Lee actually signed away his likeness though, he is an idiot.

[darkever]

What a load of Bull Donkey.

[OM]

Quick Point Of Order: Those of you anal-retentive misanthropes out there who flamed me for my little satirical comment about this suit being the reason Cap was killed off have obviously forgotten that Conner Kent met his undeserved fate for the very same reason - Kill off whatever form of Superboy that's in print so the Siegel heirs have no chance of getting any $$$ off of them. If you failed to grasp the meaning, that's *your* fault, not -mine-, kids.

So yes, I read the article, and actually understood it. Unlike some others, alas...

Ah, good. We have another entry in the "most ridiculous comic arguments" category. I was beginning to fear that the Miracleman issue would remain unchallenged forever....Well, look at it this way: The "Michael Turner Can't Draw Power Girl's Boobs Worth A S'hit" thread was getting boring for some people, so this thread probably was a welcome relief to those posters. Especially those who love to bitch and whine and moan and belittle, natch.

First pressings of Centerfield are highly coveted by hardcore Fogerty fans.

Zaentz' connection to LotR for all these years (he's owned the film rights for decades) is the only sadness I have in connection to the films' success. It galls me that he's successful in any way.

BTW, the proper title is "Zanz(Vanz) Kant Danz", and the video was by Will Vinton Productions...In order:

1) Most people who bootleg Fogarty MP3s prefer to download the original version, and I've even seen flame wars erupt over people uploading the Vanz version :)

2) Zaentz is already jacking around with the books on that property. Witness the suit by Peter Jackson over the money trail a few months back.

3) According to the stories, Vinton's video had to be totally reworked because of the suit, and the original version was never released because the Pig seriously resembled Zaentz and the Breakdancing Kid closely resembled a specific lawyer of Zaentz.

...On a side note, one of those "what would I do if I won a $300M USD lottery?" dreams I always had was to use the money to leverage a cheap hostile buy out of the CCR holdings from Zaentz, and then outright sell them back to Fogarty for the price of a personally autographed $2 bill, which would then be framed next to a dart board with Zaentz' picture on it.

[Mischiefdrag]

...You know, it wouldn't surprise me that when it's all said and done, the reason Steve Rogers was killed off along with Black Goliath is that they were both characters SLM claims they now own.

Steve Rogers and Captain America were created by Jack Kirby and Joe Simon in March of 1941. Stan Lee did not create him. So that was not the real reason for his death. My reason is a shake up before the reutrn to the status quo. Joe Q. did not rule it out. Everything in Marvel will return to the status quo, but until then enjoy or hate what they do and then just wait for the movie to come out.

Mischief

[jediracer]

Wow, nice to see the products of our government schools commenting here.

are you like a communist or something?

[vbartilucci]

We are of one mind, my BfaM, in re Mr. Zaentz...

...On a side note, one of those "what would I do if I won a $300M USD lottery?" dreams I always had was to use the money to leverage a cheap hostile buy out of the CCR holdings from Zaentz, and then outright sell them back to Fogarty for the price of a personally autographed $2 bill, which would then be framed next to a dart board with Zaentz' picture on it.
I have the exact dream, except with the Beatles' catalog, and hand it to Sir Paul.

Michael oughta be hard enough up for money to make it a viable option any time now.

But I'd wait till after the divorce is final. And I wouldn't give any to Yoko.

In short, no conniving Beatle wives get anything <g>.

[Mischiefdrag]

Actually, I think they would, though I don't think the numbers are there for them to see anything (and I'm not sure if it's exactly the same as "royalties").

Well remember when Marvel changed the name of Cable, X-Force and Deadpool to Soldier X, Static-X, and Agent X? The reason I believe then was to stop paying Liefeld for his Co-Creation of those entities.

Mischief

[Hokeyboy]

are you like a communist or something?
If he was a Communist, he'd be praising government schools.


Public education in America is abominable. But that's just like saying water is wet...

[csatterlee]

This reminds me of the time when Chuck Satterlee Worldwide Enterprises decided to sue powerhouse publisher Markosia over the $50 bucks that Satterlee's properties had earned. Chuck Satterlee had already left the company, and didn't support the lawsuit.

Chuck Satterlee Worldwide Enterprises lost the lawsuit and now they are ...

Oh wait...did I just type that out loud?

I have to stop sleeptyping. It is really becoming a problem. :)

[JLAJRC]

I guess the Mosiac DVD sales aren't doing well, although I liked it. :cool:

[Cyberleader]

I'm more surprised at how few people who have written so far clearly haven't even read the article.


Read it or not what surprises me is how few people apparently understand how corporations, etc. work.

Its pretty clear from the blurb on the front page what's going on, but i've still seen at least a dozen people saying "HOW CAN HE SUE HIMSELF?!?!?!" or equating Stan Lee to Stan Lee Media.

This is why the asian countries are overtaking the west in the marketplace.

[Heffaloo]

Read it or not what surprises me is how few people apparently understand how corporations, etc. work.

Its pretty clear from the blurb on the front page what's going on, but i've still seen at least a dozen people saying "HOW CAN HE SUE HIMSELF?!?!?!" or equating Stan Lee to Stan Lee Media.

This is why the asian countries are overtaking the west in the marketplace.


Wait. . .he's not suing himself? Who is he suing? I thought he got $10million.

[Andy E. Nystrom]

Kirby with Lee created the Silver Surfer.
Kirby without Lee created the Black Racer.

'nuff said.

Lee in one of the 1970s reprint collections (Son of Origins??) stated that Kirby was the sole creator of the Silver Surfer.

[dcbill]

It is kinda in the same ballbark of the Miracle Man issue. If Marvel lost (which they won't. At worst, if Stan Lee Media does have a legitamite greviance, Marvel will settle out of court and buy the rights from Stan Lee Media for a couple of million. Otherwise it would be a long drawn out legal battle that I doubt Stan Lee Media would have the funds to maintain concidering they just got out of bankrupcy.)

Not settling the lawsuit would be as ridiculous as, say, DC not settling over the rights to Superboy, resulting in nobody being able to use the character.

[Mischiefdrag]

Not settling the lawsuit would be as ridiculous as, say, DC not settling over the rights to Superboy, resulting in nobody being able to use the character.

DC can't Superboy right? but what about the name Kon-El or Conner Kent and just give him a name identity. Look at Roy Harper, he had so many name changes.

Just a thought to put out there. Conner Kent aka something new.

Mischief

[Not From Around]

If nothing else, this goes to show that you don't want to start a company with your name on it and then leave it for others to run.

[JakeBat]

The thing i found most telling was in Marvels response stating what their emphasis is on...

"Areas of emphasis include feature films, DVD/home video, consumer products, video games, action figures and role-playing toys, television and promotions."

I don't see comics or publishing on that list. :(

[shizumadrive]

Poor Stan I don't want him to end up pennyless.He should trademark the word excelsior and sue star trek for using the word.

[reenold]

Well, if this suit manages to seriously harm marvel - possible but unlikely - then I wouldn't be surprised to see some Marvel freaks sending death threats to those people :D Hell, I could imagine some nerds fire or suicide bombing them, even :D

This lawsuit pisses ME off, and I don't even like Marvel too much. I hate such opportunistic greedy scum.

[thunderthief]

...You know, it wouldn't surprise me that when it's all said and done, the reason Steve Rogers was killed off along with Black Goliath is that they were both characters SLM claims they now own.




Hahahaha. I seriously doubt that. Stan Lee DIDN'T create Captain America (that was Joe Simon), nor did he create Goliath (that was Roy Thomas).

But that's funny.

Anyways, this is completely baseless, and I'm sure any judge in any court will look at SLM (in financial dire straits) just desperately trying to make a buck.

It wouldn't surprise ME if this was simply a way of SLM stalling for time so they can find a money-making venture.

[MacrossJXS]

Shouldn't they be asking for 1/4 of the profits? I mean, Stan is only co-creator, and if half goes to Marvel, why should Stan get Ditko/Kirby's half?

I totally agree, man. When it comes to the people that should also have a percentage of ownership, that's a lot of hands out, in addition to Stan's.

Len Wein, Chris Claremont, Dave Cockrum, John Byrne, Terry Austin, Glynis Oliver and Tom Orzechowski all contributed to the greatness of the Uncanny X-Men -- to a far greater degree than Stan or Jack -- whose version & vision of the X-Men wasn't all that great.

I still think Marv Wolfman ought to get something more than a pat on the back for having created Blade.

-Josh

[vbartilucci]

F. Murray Abraham was in Amadeus as well as Scarface.
He was in The Last Action hero too, not that I get your point...

"Don't trust him! He killed Motzart!"

[dougfromupla]

On Oct. 15, 1998, Stan signed a contract with Stan Lee Media. On Nov. 1, 1998, he then signed a contract with Marvel. Here, you can compare the contracts.

OCT. 15, 1998 CONTRACT between Lee and Stan Lee Media: http://www.secinfo.com/dsVsb.5Dg.1z.htm

NOV. 1998 CONTRACT between Lee and Marvel: http://contracts.onecle.com/marvel/l...98.11.01.shtml

This is in the second contract with Marvel:

5 (b) You hereby warrant that you have not assigned, licensed, pledged or
otherwise hypothecated, nor attempted to do so any of the Property and
Rights to anyone other than Marvel, its affiliates, predecessors or
their designees and will not do so in the future.

...dougfromupland

[grendel824]

Well remember when Marvel changed the name of Cable, X-Force and Deadpool to Soldier X, Static-X, and Agent X? The reason I believe then was to stop paying Liefeld for his Co-Creation of those entities.

Mischief

That was proven false, especially seeing as how he would still get money from them if they sold enough (which they didn't).

[dougfromupla]

CASE: CV 07 4438 SJO

On July 9, 2007 in Federal District Court in Los Angeles, POW! and Stan Lee were sued by the newly reformed Stan Lee Media. Before you all go crazy and say the suit has no merit, please pay attention. I've read the complaint and seen the exhibits.

During the BK of SLM, an agreement was reached and approved by the court. Stan was allowed to pull out properties such as ACCUSER, STAN LEE PRESENTS, THE DRIFTER, etc., free and clear of debt. They were to be put into a company called SLC LLC and be developed for the benefit of creditors and shareholders. Stan signed that agreement as president of the company in 2002. Unfortunately, the company was never formed by him.

Recorded documents that are part of the exhibits in the case, show that the debtor in possession transferred these and other assets to QED, a subsidiary of POW! Nowhere in the entire bankruptcy file is any reference to this transfer or approval by the court. The judge, trustee, shareholders, and creditors were never aware and never approved of the transfer. That transfer was made a few months prior the November 2006 bankruptcy dismissal.

Even if you know nothing about bankruptcy law, you probably realized that there is a serious problem here.

[Kingbobb]

Not sure where the last post is going...seems to be missing some details about what the new suit is about, in reference to the events around those assets.

But from the SLE contract, I'm not sure their claim against Marvel will stand. Here's some language I snipped...

which will or have been in whole or part disclosed in writing to, published, merchandised, advertised, and/or licensed by Company

This is regarding Stan's transfer of his ownership interest in pretty much any idea he's ever had or ever will have. Personally, I think such a contract term would be seen as overbroad and too vague....a guy that's produced such lucerative concepts signing over the rights to the fruits of his brain for a mere $250,000 a year? On it's face, I see it getting overturned because there's no fair compensation provided. More important, however, is that Stan's assignment of these rights is in exchange for SLE's paying him an annual salary. If they could no longer support their end of the contract, then Stan was no longer bound by it.

Which would clear the way for him to enter into the Marvel contract.

[black-adder]

does this mean we can blame stan lee media for stripperella?