THE NEW CAP?

[MattBrady]

Without preamble, Marvel has posted the following cover on its website with the question: "Is this the new Captain America?"

The cover seems to prove some fans right who noted that Frank Castle, aka The Punisher, was the man who picked up Captain America's mask at the end of <b>Civil War #7</b>. The cover on the right is <b>Punisher War Journal #7</b>, due in may. No further information about the image on the right was given.

<center><a href="http://www.newsarama.com/movies/Hellboy/Iron/889new_storyimage3793928_full.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/movies/Hellboy/Iron/889new_storyimage3793928_full_t.jpg" border="0"></a><a href="http://www.newsarama.com/movies/Hellboy/Iron/PUNWARJ007.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/movies/Hellboy/Iron/PUNWARJ007_t.jpg" hspace="3" border="0"></a></center>

[seethruhero]

Leave Frank in Punisher: MAX!!!!!

[Speedball93]

This looks AWSOME! And I don't even like the Punisher, but if he is going to look like this I will at least check it out. Marvel is really pushing the boundaries right now. I don't think you would have ever seen anything like this 3 or 4 years ago.

Edit : Can I get this in an oversized door poster??? Please??!!

[Eddie Young]

I don't know how I should feel about this.

And I REALLY don't know what Frank is thinking.

[The 'Nam]

I'm not totally against the idea as a temporary little thing, but Jesu Maria! that's ugly.

And I still can't get that ad for the first Ennis/Dillon series out of my head: "No Capes, No Masks, No Mercy." Hmm...

Maybe I'm not quite so fond of the idea, because his sudden hero-worship of Cap was just another example of fitting square pegs in round holes...I believe Frank would obviously have some respect for Cap, but the way Fraction and Millar handled it...well, it seemed a bit much.

Did I mention how ugly that is?

[CaptainTemerity]

I expect it's more misdirection, like the "Cap-American-ized" Iron Man, although I'd enjoy seeing a power struggle of multiple, misdirected Caps trying to fill in Steve's boots.

Interesting either way, though.

[whitemarkd]

Maybe we'll have duelling Captain Americas... (Or is it Americi?)

[jpm1023]

This is so rad...

[nietoperz]

That's the worst (and dumbest) looking costume I've seen in a long time.

[RoiVampire]

my head just exploded

[Jason1749]

Holy crap is that bad. I really hope Fraction uses it to make fun of the Punisher, because, who the hell is going to take him seriously in that get-up? Well, who other than the people he then shoots for making fun of him?

[Doctor_Chronos]

I agree that this is misdirection.

[USAgent]

There is another thread on Newsarama asking "What would it take for you to leave Marvel"?

I think I have my answer. This is disgusting.

Are we in for a "Reign of the Captains America!" ?

This kind of like Americop mixed with Paladin or something.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americop

[newfoundma]

MAX-Punisher would kick the crap out of Cap-Punisher for wearing this.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Here's my response to Marvel, also a question. Are you as stupid as you think we are? They want readers to think he's really dead, and then THIS?!?! Yeah, the new Cap, NOT in the Captain America book, in Punisher War Journal... yeah, THAT makes a lot of sense...

If they don't want us to assume its all hype/Reign of the Supermen retread, then stop proving us correct. Its one thing to have a story about Frank trying to live up to the legacy, but "Is this the new Cap?" Yeah, and also, Magneto is REALLY dead. For serious... You can't constantly deceive readership and then act indignant when they catch on. Dead means dead, except Magneto and Hawkeye... and now Magik, apparently. Oh yeah, and May, and Bucky... And Jean a bunch.... Keep it up Marvel, make your money, but a lot of us aren't fooled. And this is just insulting to the intelligence of the readers.

-Jared

[Speedball93]

I expect it's more misdirection, like the "Cap-American-ized" Iron Man, although I'd enjoy seeing a power struggle of multiple, misdirected Caps trying to fill in Steve's boots.

Interesting either way, though.
Isn't there a solicit for an upcoming issue that says that Frank gets a new costume?? Booyah! Here it is!!

[Brankind]

I like the idea of several different Captain Americas to start the story of "Who is the new Captain America ?"

Punisher is a good start , I wonder who else will try to be Capt America

[Vintage]

Interesting, but still pretty ugly.

[spidertour02]

This has GOT to be a red herring. If it isn't, well ... I'd still buy it. This would be pretty interesting, in my opinion.

[vbartilucci]

Maybe we'll have duelling Captain Americas... (Or is it Americi?)
Actually, it would be "Captains America".

And it would be no less wrong, no matter how gramatically correct it was.

[Indy24la]

Giant unbelievable guns, a million little pouches.... seems to me someone is still preoccupied with 1995.

[Bevbos]

F_CKING YEAH.

[ANGELDOGGIE]

Love Cap..........Like Punisher.............HATE THIS!!! Idon't think the two costumes should mix, I mean, they both are symbols, but of two very different ideals. This is too much!!

[Fletcher]

Hmmmm...I like the art. The design with the star and the skull in the center is pretty neat, even the costume is neat in an odd sort of way. But can Marvel really be serious? T Just my opinion, I don't think this is going to stick around for very long. I give it less time that the horrible Iron Spider Man that was scooped up and passed on to the reader.

[Crump's Brother]

BWAHAHAHA! Look at all the pretty 1990s pouches! Stab his eyes!

[PaxHouse]

Isn't there a solicit for an upcoming issue that says that Frank gets a new costume?? Booyah! Here it is!!

And somehow.....I don't know which is scarier.....Frank's version of Captain American's costume OR that the USA didn't think of this first....!! :rolleyes: :mad: :p

[J.D. Lombardi]

Guys....didn't Marvel just fake something like this to the cover of Civil War: The Initiative? I'd wait until the book actually comes out before we all get our panties in a bunch.

[tgail]

That gun is straight out of the 90's! Yikes!!

[bebopeva88]

Interesting, but I think it's gonna be a another instance of misdirection on Marvel's behalf. Could be true though, as I've suspected Frank would be one version of Cap after reading the solicits to PWJ #6 & 7, and having Frank pick up Cap's mask in CW #7.

[joekelly007]

what i find most ironic about marvel is that they keep repeating the mantra that "we want our characters to operate in the real world" but , in the real world DEAD IS DEAD !!!! WE DONT HAVE SCARLET WITCHES (OR SUPERBOY PRIMES FOR THAT MATTER ) !!

the closest we ever got to "seeing " somebody come back was bobby from dallas (tv, i know but heck it was closer than printed paper)

so now , in our "real world" we dont see miraculous returns 25 issues, or months or anniversary later, if you really want to do the unexpected so we know it wasnt a gimmick, bring him back in issue 42 instead of 50

oh i forgot, you're gonna revert to the original numbering , riighhhtttttt:rolleyes:

[BlueBeetleIII]

Sometimes I get the image of Marvel as a little kid saying "Look what I can do!"

So basically this will all turn out to be "There can be only one Captain America. Steve Rogers"

So who do you think is next? Bucky, Sharon, or Falcon?

[edcoyote]

Let's see....

Punisher as Cap, that fits the Eradicator - Superman spot,

Bucky as Cap, that fills the Superboy - Superman spot,

Iron Cap, that fills the Steel - Superman spot.

Hmmm.... that leaves the Cyborg - Superman open.

Maybe Clor? Vision? Deathlok?

[ElijahSnowFan]

my head just exploded

i've avoided the whole Civil War/Captain America debate, for the most part. i didn't like how it ended. and i don't like a lot of things that this regime of Marvel does.

if Frank Castle is Captain America, and that's the costume...just another reason for me to take comfort in the knowledge that eventually, all things are retconned, so every bad idea this era produces will eventually be wiped away.

[NeoSamurai]

"Marvel is teh awesome for bringing superheroes to the real world".

I laugh at the idiocy for people who buy into that statement then support Punisher wearing a mask and costume. Seriously, the most realistic character in the 616 being made more unrealistic is a big contradicition for creative policy.

[johnchrist]

I like it,
my only concern is that this is going the same way Superman's death went, with all sorts of other guys trying to fill in his shoes... of course Superman is a giant pink-taco and Cap at least had some cajones

[BlueBeetleIII]

Let's see....

Punisher as Cap, that fits the Eradicator - Superman spot,

Bucky as Cap, that fills the Superboy - Superman spot,

Iron Cap, that fills the Steel - Superman spot.

Hmmm.... that leaves the Cyborg - Superman open.

Maybe Clor? Vision? Deathlok?

Nope, people are thinking the wrong way on Cyborg Supes. Who did Cyborg Supes turn out to be? Hows about Red Skull as the new Cap, he is cloned from Steve. What better way to bring down America than take over the role? Just needs a new body or something.

[caats19]

that's really ugly. if punisher wanted to be captain america, he should just keep the same suit.

[johnny.blaze]

Let's see....

Punisher as Cap, that fits the Eradicator - Superman spot,

Bucky as Cap, that fills the Superboy - Superman spot,

Iron Cap, that fills the Steel - Superman spot.

Hmmm.... that leaves the Cyborg - Superman open.

Maybe Clor? Vision? Deathlok?

LOL. Yes Cap's brain in Deathlok would be the Cyborg!!!

ooooor its like Batman: Knightfall where we had Azz-bats n now we have Captain Frank

in any case i LOVE the fact that Frank's taking over the mantle this could be really cool!

[NeoSamurai]

Nope, people are thinking the wrong way on Cyborg Supes. Who did Cyborg Supes turn out to be? Hows about Red Skull as the new Cap, he is cloned from Steve. What better way to bring down America than take over the role? Just needs a new body or something.

Red Skull hasn't been a cloned body of cap for about 2 years.

[johnny.blaze]

LOL. Yes Cap's brain in Deathlok would be the Cyborg!!!

ooooor its like Batman: Knightfall where we had Azz-bats n now we have Captain Frank

in any case i LOVE the fact that Frank's taking over the mantle this could be really cool!

In anycase Ultimate Cap would still kick BOTH of their asses

[razorwing77]

BWAHAHAHA! Look at all the pretty 1990s pouches! Stab his eyes!

You can't! He's wearing goggles!

[theodoros2]

I'm Blind help me!!

Remember when Bill Jemas used to enter newsarama with different names,
and tried to support his ideas?

Sometimes I think that people such as these who like this Punisherica
or Amerisher or Punish America or whatever this is called
are people who just work for Marvel.

This is so ugly and stupid that I want to eat my eyes!
Does Brubaker know about this? Does he aprove it?

I'd like to know his opinion if he enters this forum.

[]o[mosaic]o[]

Let's see....

Punisher as Cap, that fits the Eradicator - Superman spot,

Bucky as Cap, that fills the Superboy - Superman spot,

Iron Cap, that fills the Steel - Superman spot.

Hmmm.... that leaves the Cyborg - Superman open.

Maybe Clor? Vision? Deathlok?
no, no, no...

bucky is the cyborg-cap, remember the arm?
patriot is cap-boy

gotta make sure we have our reign of the caps analogy straight.

[caats19]

i thought for the time, that the reign of superman thing made a lot of sense. some great characters came outa it imo. but yah they cant' do it again.

[cncoyle]

That's the worst (and dumbest) looking costume I've seen in a long time.No kidding. That looks like it hopped out of the 90's What If series.
(And while that series rocked, this would have been one of the few bad issues.)

[Will44]

Sometimes I get the image of Marvel as a little kid saying "Look what I can do!"

So basically this will all turn out to be "There can be only one Captain America. Steve Rogers"

So who do you think is next? Bucky, Sharon, or Falcon?

Actually, I kind of like the idea of Sharon as the next Captain America. Also, didn't Marvel kill Cap once before, and have other people take over for him? Isn't that how we got USAgent?

[BlueBeetleIII]

Red Skull hasn't been a cloned body of cap for about 2 years.
Yes, you are right. He has a cloned body up until his "death". Hence my using the words "All he needs is a new body". He had one clone, why not another.

[Dave Accampo]

hahahaha...I think this is freakin' hilarious. Either it's a joke, and it's a funny one, or it's actually a plot thread that Fraction will tackle in his book. He and Bru write Iron Fist -- I'm sure they're talking about it. I bet if it's part of a story and not just a hoax then it's some joke that lasts half an issue. Do Brubaker and Fraction seem like creators who just sit around and say..."hey, let's rip off Reign of the Supermen!"

C'mon, give 'em some credit...they'd only do anything like this out of a joke or because they have a story they think is good.

[Kolimar]

The new costume looks kinda dumb. With a few minor alterations, I bet it would look much cooler. Like getting rid of those boots. :rolleyes: :p

The old-fashioned Frank looks awesome. Classic Olivetti. It takes me back a decade. :) :)

[Lord Ruthven]

There is another thread on Newsarama asking "What would it take for you to leave Marvel"?

I think I have my answer. This is disgusting.

Are we in for a "Reign of the Captains America!" ?

This kind of like Americop mixed with Paladin or something.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americop

I totally agree, and when I posted a satirical thread outlining the "Reign of the Captains" imaginary storyline I got shot down for it - then Marvel go and pull a stunt like this.

I really hope Marvel are having a self-deprecating joke with this image and don't expect the fans to take them seriously with it.

[Brian009]

Punisher as Cap is sad and funny at the same time. Man-crush? Yikes.

And Ennis/Dillon's first 12-issue series was a fantastic storyline for Castle's character.

And on the subject of Cyborg -Cap - I'd say this could lead to Micro-Cap?

Cheers,

B

[SpyGuy]

You mean there's another Punisher title besides the incredible Garth Ennis MAX series?

People actually BUY it? Huh. Go figure.

[khuxford]

Personally? I love it. I don't care if it is misdirection...some amount of misdirection like this just adds to the enjoyment of comic books. Half the fun of comic book is the anticipation and guessing of what will come next. Something like this? My comic-book-geekiness runneth over. ;)

Still...whatever Punisher does, I'm fairly certain Ed Brubaker ain't making him the star of the Cap book, so we'll have someone else carrying on the name/spirit of the mantle.

[JSS]

the punisher would never kill anyone while dressed as cap,if thats where marvel is going with this then im not picking it up.

[DanteHicks1972]

I don't like the costime and it looks like a "Reign of Supermen" thing. Does anyone think Cap is dead? There's no reason to rhimk he is besides even if he is that'll chang, Joe Q. leave someone other than Uncle Ben for the Book Of The Dead coming back to life is not exciting.....The world did not need Capt Marvel to come back....

[Ace]

Remember Knightfall, when DC did a pretty good job of not giving the fanbase what they needed, but just what they thought they wanted, to show them that what they thought they wanted wasn't really worth it.

Az-Bats was there to show us why the last thing we'd want is a Batman who was 90s Extreme. And it worked.

Punisher is the world's best possible Az-Bats.

[Onslaught]

DAMN IT!!! I was hoping for a clone Captain America, we could call him Captain Clomerica!

[Jon Snow]

You mean there's another Punisher title besides the incredible Garth Ennis MAX series?

People actually BUY it? Huh. Go figure.

There is, sure, and if you're not reading it, your loss.

It's great.

[JJMadera]

Hehe, suddenly I had a 1990's Marvel flashback, is that good or bad?

[Mundungus]

That costume is way too much of a clusterbutt.

I mean, it's cool. But I can't see this lasting past just a comedic relief issue, because I wouldn't be able to take a guy seriously wearing that.


....then again, for most cases it'd be hard to take any superhero seriously.

[Shadowcards]

Not what I wanted to see.

I don't mind him taking over the Cap mantle for a little while, but was hoping he would actually dress the part and try actually BEING Captain America and not a gun-toting vigilante. I don't think he could do it for long, but would be fun to watch him try.

[ZionGhost]

That is the most awsome looking "Cap"? Yet!!!! The captian kills America. YES!!
All you fanboys "quit yer b&%#@in" and pick up a weapon girlscouts, time for some payback"

[The Holy Cow]

Oh my... This is just ridiculous :rolleyes:

[SupermanL]

All I know is that the costume is hideous. It's probably the worst idea of a costume I've seen. That puts Geo Force to shame, and jesus Meltzer brought that retard out of the cob webs in his book. Im not sure that I am against Frank being Cap, but what are the artists doing if thats what he is going to look like.

[Jon Snow]

Remember Knightfall, when DC did a pretty good job of not giving the fanbase what they needed, but just what they thought they wanted, to show them that what they thought they wanted wasn't really worth it.

Az-Bats was there to show us why the last thing we'd want is a Batman who was 90s Extreme. And it worked.

Punisher is the world's best possible Az-Bats.

Sigh...

Marvel actually did something like that in the 90's where there were four Punishers.
That was their "response" to Reign of the Supermen.

And their answer to Az-Bats, was Vengeance becoming the new Spirit of Vengeance.

I'm betting that somewhere out there Bru and Fraction are just laughing their asses off...
I'm sticking around with these guys, they've done me no wrong.

[rwe1138]

DAMN IT!!! I was hoping for a clone Captain America, we could call him Captain Clomerica!
I prefer The Clap. ;)

[Moriarty]

Let the excrement hit the oscillator...:D :p :cool:

[Gamma Charge]

When I clicked on the link and saw the pic I yelled out at my screen. For the first time since... ever! I can't believe Marvel actually went there. I thought all the speculation was bogus. I've liked what I've read of Fractions writing so far. Bru can do no wrong either. Whatever is going to be done with Cap and his legacy... I'll trust them and take the wait and see approach.

I still can't believe it!

[Spade]

looks ridiculous.

[Nate28]

Hes just missing some big shoulder pads and you got one kick ass 90s outfit!

[Kolimar]

I like it,
my only concern is that this is going the same way Superman's death went, with all sorts of other guys trying to fill in his shoes... of course Superman is a giant pink-taco and Cap at least had some cajones

He had some drawers? Was he a chiffoniere? That doesn't sound very manly to me... :rolleyes: :p

[GrimmGargoyl]

This just reminds me of an old WhatIf? comic where Frank became Captain America and used the Punisher persona to take care of things he couldn't do as Cap.

http://www.comics.org/graphics/covers/3864/3864_051.jpg

It's a great idea, but there's no way that they're going to let the Punisher become Captain America or else they wouldn't have started War Journal and Castle would be a part of Cap's supporting cast.

Considering some of the things they've been hinting at, I'd say either Falcon, Bucky, or Hawkeye are the best candidates. Falcon could become American Eagle or something along those lines. Or hell why not have "Squad America," with multiple American themed heroes. *shrug*

Hell, the Reign of the Supermen isn't really all that original either. There were about five or six different Punishers after Castle commited suicide long long ago.

[furioso2012]

Captain Right Wing Death Squad?
Captain Contra?

[PaulCrocker]

the punisher would never kill anyone while dressed as cap,if thats where marvel is going with this then im not picking it up.

I think this is why he is not dressed exactly as Cap. He still going to kill, he is just not doing it while looking exactly like Cap.

[Mendoza]

Somewhere Garth Ennis is wetting his pants with laughter right now.

That is the fugliest costume i have seen in quite some time, I mean come on. I thought the old spandex punsiher get up with the white boots was bad, but damn.

I hope to god this is a fake or misdirection bit because if it isn't ill be dropping punisher war journal.

On the plus side it will make my punisher max issues just all that more fun.

[EmeraldGuy32]

please god no....

[Alexlucard]

Let's see....

Punisher as Cap, that fits the Eradicator - Superman spot,

Bucky as Cap, that fills the Superboy - Superman spot,

Iron Cap, that fills the Steel - Superman spot.

Hmmm.... that leaves the Cyborg - Superman open.

Maybe Clor? Vision? Deathlok?

Bucky is the Cyborg. Patriot is Superboy.

[RickinToronto]

I don't care what the naysayers are saying, but Marvel Comics are very interesting right now. I like how we are shaken out of our complacency and apathy about characters we love and how they interact. Thank you, Marvel!

[Kolimar]

I prefer The Clap. ;)

Heheheh :D

[sephiroth617]

DC fanboys running rampant in this thread I see.

Anyway, I think it's a red herring as well. It'll be interesting to see what comes out of this.

[FallenFate]

You mean there's another Punisher title besides the incredible Garth Ennis MAX series?

People actually BUY it? Huh. Go figure.

You know, honestly, statements like this make me wonder how old the average p[oster is on these boards. "I only read the MAX series cuz it's, like, adult and stuff. The rest of it suxxors." War Journal is a great book and puts the Pubisher where he belongs- in the Marvel Universe.

Heck, I collected Faust when I was a sophomore in high school and it started coming out and I certainly didn't immediately think it was the only thing I would ever read because of its mature themes.

[e_galston]

Here's my response to Marvel, also a question. Are you as stupid as you think we are? They want readers to think he's really dead, and then THIS?!?! Yeah, the new Cap, NOT in the Captain America book, in Punisher War Journal... yeah, THAT makes a lot of sense...

If they don't want us to assume its all hype/Reign of the Supermen retread, then stop proving us correct. Its one thing to have a story about Frank trying to live up to the legacy, but "Is this the new Cap?" Yeah, and also, Magneto is REALLY dead. For serious... You can't constantly deceive readership and then act indignant when they catch on. Dead means dead, except Magneto and Hawkeye... and now Magik, apparently. Oh yeah, and May, and Bucky... And Jean a bunch.... Keep it up Marvel, make your money, but a lot of us aren't fooled. And this is just insulting to the intelligence of the readers.

-Jared

um... to be honest the Magik that's coming back isn't the 616 magik.. but the one from house of m..

[Speedball93]

I don't care what the naysayers are saying, but Marvel Comics are very interesting right now. I like how we are shaken out of our complacency and apathy about characters we love and how they interact. Thank you, Marvel!
You have to admit that this picture alone will create sales for PWJ. It may be misdirection, but how many people will pick up the book just to find out???? Hmmmm.....

[Kenro]

This is laughable. This just doesn't fit. There something very 90's about this and it just doesn't fit Frank. Marvel is too smart to pull a Reign retread but this isn't looking very good.

[ADC]

Bucky is the Cyborg. Patriot is Superboy.

Dead on on Patriot - Superboy.

Punisher is the Erradicator for obvious reasons.

Iron Man is the Cyborg Superman (Cyborg Cap?) beacuse he is evil and has presidential sanction.

Who is Steel? probably Luke Cage..... he is acting like Cap but he isn`t saying that he is Cap and he also is black like John Henry.

Marvel can´t get more predictable like this

[Dallas Bar]

Clap, yeah, why not. If the Red Skull could do it...

But everybody is whistling a different tuna, and they're all red herrings...
Let's wait and see, I bet it's going to be a ride for better or worse.

I TRUST IN BRU!!!

[Jon Snow]

I don't care what the naysayers are saying, but Marvel Comics are very interesting right now. I like how we are shaken out of our complacency and apathy about characters we love and how they interact. Thank you, Marvel!

No, man, don't say stuff like that!
Marvel is evil right now, because they're not doing the same stories they were doing 30 years ago and not using a -- every couple of words -- or so!

And fewer exclamation marks as well!!!!


What were they thinking, bringing back thought ballons?

For shame!!!!!!

[sol]

Everybody's talking about the pouches and belt buckles being from the 90's like they invented it.

All that is is a look Nick Fury perfected in the late 60's early 70's with the S.H.I.E.L.D. bondage outfits still worn to this day.

The 90's don't and shouldn't get credit for anything, other than mostly bad comics and the sudden motivation to read Indy stuff or Vertigo titles.

To comment on the outfit - besides the pouches -

The mask is remisicent of Rogers' mask...but there is a star instead of the 'proud letter A upon it'. I'm thinking this isn't misdirection, but definitely not 'permanent', as these things go.

[1genxer]

Does anyone else get a feeling of dejavu here? All I can think about between the Cap/Iron Man and the Cap/Punisher is DC's horrible Reign of the Supermen. Sure we got Superboy and Steel from that...but we also got Eradicator and Cyborg Superman.:rolleyes: Wow Death of Superman gains huge press, death of Captain America gains huge press. This is all just like watching a skewed re-run!:eek:

P.S. I really like both DC and Marvel...read about 50/50. I still like much of MArvel and commend them for pushing the envelope, but recently I haven't seen much in the way of originality. I honestly see them just jumping on what is current and hot, instead of making what is current and hot. DC has their problems too, but at least the last 3 years have been original. I DO LIKE AND READ MARVEL though.

[krimsun]

Any other character doing this I could believe/enjoy but I always have this memory of Frank and Steve in my head :

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l74/krimsun2006/Punisher1.jpg
http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l74/krimsun2006/Punisher2.jpg

[unytis]

There is no way they would have that be Captain Americas costume. There realy is nothing American about it.

[aceatkins]

I was underwhelmed by Fraction's writing in the first few issues of War Journal. The voice didn't sound like Frank at all, and I agree that the Cap worship was over the top --- he was practically in love with the guy. I suspect this is just a publicity stunt, but I don't care. Won't be buying it anyway. The Punisher works so well as a Max book (the entire Max run has been stellar, not a weak storyline in the bunch), why dilute the character by have him interact with all the silly super-heroes? Just doesn't make sense to me.

[leahcim]

The cyborg superman was Hank Henshaw who was a darker reed richardsish character for DC. So mabey Reed (who has gotten pretty dark) will be cyborg cap.
I also think Falcon will be Steel cap. Can't wait..first all the varients and now this. Bring on the mullet!

[Cheech-Daddy]

I walwyas tell myself "just read the article and completely ignore the inevitable whiny bitchy backlash." And yet I always read on and I always get a headache....

FICTION!

NEW!

DIFFERENT!

BOLD!

FICTION!

And probably a misdirect, or at the very least, that get up is still more Punisher than Cap. If he does wear this thing for a bit. I still don't think he'll call himself Captain America or anything like that. More of a tribute than taking the mantle, per se.

[FallenFate]

um... to be honest the Magik that's coming back isn't the 616 magik.. but the one from house of m..

Aren't they essentially the same person since House of M was just Scarlet Witch's skewed version of the 616 universe? She didn't create a new universe or alternate reality, she warped the 616 one...

[Jon Snow]

I was underwhelmed by Fraction's writing in the first few issues of War Journal. The voice didn't sound like Frank at all, and I agree that the Cap worship was over the top --- he was practically in love with the guy. I suspect this is just a publicity stunt, but I don't care. Won't be buying it anyway. The Punisher works so well as a Max book (the entire Max run has been stellar, not a weak storyline in the bunch), why dilute the character by have him interact with all the silly super-heroes? Just doesn't make sense to me.

'cause that's what the Punisher did for decades, you know, "interacting with all the silly super-heroes"...

[patolee]

I don't care what the naysayers are saying, but Marvel Comics are very interesting right now. I like how we are shaken out of our complacency and apathy about characters we love and how they interact. Thank you, Marvel!

I totally agree with you. I´m having a lot of fun just seeing all this news, media coverage that Marvel is getting. I think it´s good that you say: "I can´t believe that they are doing this". It brings back the excitement to comics, It brings back readers, It brings back a lot of speculation, and yes, it feels like a new Marvel. And I think it´s wonderful.

[FallenFate]

I was underwhelmed by Fraction's writing in the first few issues of War Journal. The voice didn't sound like Frank at all, and I agree that the Cap worship was over the top --- he was practically in love with the guy. I suspect this is just a publicity stunt, but I don't care. Won't be buying it anyway. The Punisher works so well as a Max book (the entire Max run has been stellar, not a weak storyline in the bunch), why dilute the character by have him interact with all the silly super-heroes? Just doesn't make sense to me.


Yeah, um, see my earlier comment...

[Knotman]

I mixed my Cap with my Punisher Taste great..................

I read the Death thru the Return of Superman. Like it.

Batman's Broken back skipped it...glad I did.

Cap's death...the whole thing just had no meaning, no where to go.

I will be back if Cap return's. This reminds me of how good Waid's Cap run was going, then
off to never never land.
I really like the current series. Too bad.

[michaelman9]

this would be a great story to see why frank cannot make it as Captain America. It's interesteing that he wants to try, so this should make for an interesting story.

[Ace]

Sigh...

Marvel actually did something like that in the 90's where there were four Punishers.
That was their "response" to Reign of the Supermen.

And their answer to Az-Bats, was Vengeance becoming the new Spirit of Vengeance.

I'm betting that somewhere out there Bru and Fraction are just laughing their asses off...
I'm sticking around with these guys, they've done me no wrong.

You might have read that wrong, friend.

I was saying that Punisher as Captain America (or even Ultimate Cap as Captain America for that matter) is what some of the younger, Garth Ennis-Mark Millar enthusiasts wouldn't mind in the least.

And that during the 90s, the Bat-editors dealt with a similiar sentiment and that's why they created Azrael to show people how worthless a Batman who kills is.

Much like how a Captain America who killed freely would be pretty damn worthless too.

Except for as a villain, I find Punisher to be about as worthy a character as Azrael so it makes sense to me.

[mopocalypse]

Is punisher on steroids?

[Atom13]

Personally, I think that if anyone replaces Cap', it should be the Winter Soldier. That being said, I think that Bucky should be offered the spot, and turn it down. He should tell everyone that, "Captain American wasn't just a symbol, he was a man-- a man named Steve Rogers that we could all only hope to be half as great as. They've tried to fill that uniform with other men, lesser men, on countless occasions, and they've only managed to prove one thing-- there's only one Steve Rogers. There's only one Captain America".

And that is how the character should be retired. There's no need for a legacy. If the other heroes want to live up to his legacy, they should prove that there's much more to being Captain America than wearing a winged mask and carrying around a shield.

Also, the red star that lights up on the Winter Soldier's bionic shoulder should be replaced with a "Cap shield logo".

[Tophat]

I know I do and I can't keep think this going to be the newest copy of DC reign of superman they did that once with the punisher so why not use him to do it with capn america. AHHHHHHHHHH

I was just getting into the tittle taboat I"m so hoping this is going to be one shot stroy line with this capn america thing just long enough for him to hunt down the sniper and kill him

p.s I admit I didn't bother to read the issue where capn america gets shot.

[Conejoslave]

LOL. The only thing that could make this better is if Fraction dropped it and they gave it to Chris Clairmont. I would pay twenty bucks for that comic book. It would be hillarious.

[!!!1]

so why would a spoiler this big be on the front page?

[McMonkey Nut]

Sh*t on it all you want haters, sh*t on me all you want haters, but I think this looks freakin awesome!!

http://www.newsarama.com/movies/Hellboy/Iron/889new_storyimage3793928_full.jpg

I think it's a cool idea, I Frank is trying to stand up for America and his fallen hero. I get my gangster ass kickin Frank fix in the MAX book, so I want the other Frank to be as far from that as possible and this is it! We know it's not permanent, just like the Iron-Spider, and Armor Cap, so have fun with it, I know I will!!

[Kolimar]

please god no....

God is dead or busy playing dice... :p :D ;)

[Banana_Oil]

Sometimes I get the image of Marvel as a little kid saying "Look what I can do!"

So basically this will all turn out to be "There can be only one Captain America. Steve Rogers"

So who do you think is next? Bucky, Sharon, or Falcon?

Blue Beetle...didn't Max Lord shoot you in the head?

But in a, you know, CLASSY way.

[ron628]

The worst character ever created as Captain America? S-T-U-P-I-D.

[rook74]

Daammmm let the book come out first before you shred it to bits. :mad:

[BlueBeetleIII]

You know what I find funny. People are all ready calling those who don't like it "haters" (obviously because we disagree with Marvel). But then they say I love it, it will be great.

How do they know? Shouldn't you actually read it before you judge?.

I know all it is is an image. Somehwere Joe Q and all are giggling like little school girls thinking they are pulling one over on us.

Then they will release another image to make people got "Oh my god".

Because Marvel doesn't think a story is good unless you "rip the internet in half"

[Mercury]

my god, this is the most ridiculous looking thing ever, it doesn't even fill me with outrage, it just amuses me. how anyone can pay money for this stuff and say "this is so good" just shows why the comics industry is what its become with variants, lateness, superstar egos, "events", and more- people will buy anything. this looks like bad fan fiction or something, or a character rob liefeld created in the 90s. god bless you if you like it, though.

[Jon Snow]

Ok, first things first.
This is clearly misdirection, Marvel's done it recently with the FF, and they'll do it again.
Secondly, we all know that Cap is not really dead.
How many times has he died before?
See here (http://filingcabinetofthedamned.blogspot.com/2005/06/like-jesus-but-with-fisticuffs.html) to see just how many.

One again, i say, relax.
Let the story unfold.
Is it too much to ask that you have some faith in the creators involved?

[Eric Palicki]

I trust Brubaker.

I trust Fraction.

It'll be good. I promise.

[JohnnyZemo]

Easy everyone... easy...

That's not Cap's mask... Cap's mask has an "A" on it.

[sephiroth617]

Daammmm let the book come out first before you shred it to bits. :mad:

A smart person, FINALLY!

To those who bash it based on the picture, I say to you:

"Never assume because you'll make an ASS out of yourself".

I bet there will be someone on this thread who says it sucks right now, but after the issue/story comes out, they'll like it.

That's when I'll bring this thread up and post your initial reaction.

EDIT: Whoever said the boots Frank is wearing is ridiculous doesn't remember that Cap wore the same type of boots.

[Kolimar]

Sh*t on it all you want haters, sh*t on me all you want haters

Ohh, we have a coprophiliac here!! :eek: :eek: :p :D ;)

[tofu]

oh snap.

Love the Punisher but they could have designed a better costume, it looks kinda silly even for a superhero costume.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Ok, first things first.
This is clearly misdirection, Marvel's done it recently with the FF, and they'll do it again.
Secondly, we all know that Cap is not really dead.
How many times has he died before?
See here (http://filingcabinetofthedamned.blogspot.com/2005/06/like-jesus-but-with-fisticuffs.html) to see just how many.

One again, i say, relax.
Let the story unfold.
Is it too much to ask that you have some faith in the creators involved?

Dude, you called me a bitch for saying basically the same thing. I said in my post "ts one thing to have a story about Frank trying to live up to the legacy," but complained about the way they are hyping it. You sir, have confounded me. Calling me a bitch for disliking the marketing, and ignoring the fact that I've said the same thing that you APPARENTLY felt.

Cap has NEVER had this fanfare about his death, and its the publicity that makes this ridiculous. I'm sick of being lied to in marketing, even if it has a temporary sales spike. The marketing ISN'T a good thing, because hype doesn't equal new readers, but speculators. Reports from last Wednesday had non-comics readers buying 20 copies of Cap to sell on E-Bay, bought by many comic fans whose stores were sold out by the time they arrived. Speculators saturated and nearly ruined the market, which is the last thing the comics industry needs. Unless EVERY issue is as media hyped and successful, then it isn't a good thing, because it is sure to drop off, and historically has always dropped off more significantly each time.

[roblewmac]

You know what I find funny. People are all ready calling those who don't like it "haters" (obviously because we disagree with Marvel). But then they say I love it, it will be great.

How do they know? Shouldn't you actually read it before you judge?.

I know all it is is an image. Somehwere Joe Q and all are giggling like little school girls thinking they are pulling one over on us.

Then they will release another image to make people got "Oh my god".

Because Marvel doesn't think a story is good unless you "rip the internet in half"
Don't you know even though Marvel puts out god awefull previews you STILL need to buy the comic to be fair? After all poor Marvel has no idea that anybody would'nt like a picture like this

[Somebody]

Maybe we'll have duelling Captain Americas... (Or is it Americi?)
Captains America. Multiple Captains, singular America :)

[BlueBeetleIII]

A smart person, FINALLY!

To those who bash it based on the picture, I say to you:

"Never assume because you'll make an ASS out of yourself".

I bet there will be someone on this thread who says it sucks right now, but after the issue/story comes out, they'll like it.

That's when I'll bring this thread up and post your initial reaction.

EDIT: Whoever said the boots Frank is wearing is ridiculous doesn't remember that Cap wore the same type of boots.

Actually the quote is "Never Assume as you'll make an ASS out of U and me"

As I said above, what about all the peole assuming it is going to be great? Are you going to bring up their posts if they say it will be great and then they say it isn't? Shouldn't they wait to read it before judging?

[OCM]

I'm Blind help me!!

Remember when Bill Jemas used to enter newsarama with different names,
and tried to support his ideas?

Sometimes I think that people such as these who like this Punisherica
or Amerisher or Punish America or whatever this is called
are people who just work for Marvel.

This is so ugly and stupid that I want to eat my eyes!
Does Brubaker know about this? Does he aprove it?

I'd like to know his opinion if he enters this forum.

Awww come on this is just more lies, errrrr disinformation from the NuMarvel much like Iron Man Captain America.

Get bent out of shape IF this is the new Cap. but I remain highly skeptical. Who knows he might try, doesn't mean it's going to last. Punisher as Cap is so out there and so contradictory and... wait I have no faith in Q. and company understanding their characters anymore, this could very well end up the new status quo.

[amlah6]

Thank the gods for Punisher MAX.

[FanBoyKevbo]

I would really love to hear what Ennis thinks about this? He’s probably either laughing or crying in his Guinness.

But while I’m in the process of posting I got to say…exactly what is happening with Marvel? They play coy about how all of what has happened in the past civil war events and tie ins are just the rational evolution of the marvel universe but I, a rather rational person, can’t make sense of any of it. There is nothing heroic about being responsible for a group of super villains terrorizing, maiming, and ruining others that are trying to do good. There is nothing heroic about “cloning a God” and allowing it to brutally kill a hero, there is nothing heroic about creating a new world order in which you manipulate ad direct every citizens of a nation lives because you feel you have the superior insight to do so. And worst of all, this is all coming from a genuine hero…Tony Stark.

I came into Civil War completely psyched and with out any ill will. I was just getting back into comics (at lease from a stance in which I weekly purchased them) and even throughout the series I remained excited. But now it is over and I read these characters that I have truly become emotionally invested in, and where there is some level of innocence in my others wise realistic and rational life in which I wanted to see someone, not someone flat or one dimensional, but someone fraught with complexity and trials and diversity, actually stand up and do something good…not something they thought was good, not something that the government told them would be good…but something legitimately good that that little shred of innocence inside of me could thrive on. I don’t want this from all of my comics, I love Punisher: Max, Batman, and Dare Devil for that other part of me, the part that thrives on the emotionally complex and dark….But Captain America…Iron Man….both now gone in either a literal or figurative sense…both now leaving me feel empty, confused, un-entertained and tarnished.

Now I’m not the kind of guy that derives his whole life around comics nor am I the kind of guy to shout out that I’ll never read Marvel again. Marvel, if your listening, trust me I will keep buying, you’ve got my money so you don’t have to worry about it. I’ll keep buying because I’m addicted to the continuity. But though I am not one of those aforementioned “guys” you may wonder why it is I would feel so distraught over all of this, I mean their just the funny books right…no they are more than that, I don’t read these things for my damn health, and there is a reason that more people who read comics are guys my age (22) rather than kids. It’s because we find something in them that is appealing, interesting, and at times even moving. And I’ll also note that I’m not societally unaware, just because I read comics doesn’t mean I’m dislike any other responsible adult, I have a real job, a home, and pay my taxes and I keep myself privy to the news of the worlds and I do obviously see the allegory created by Civil War…my thing is though, and I admit I am a bit liberal, they created the allegory and then had the bad guys win. Not Iron Man and Reed as the bad guys, but the guys that strip away what we stand for, our freedoms, for a false premise of our safety.

Here’s my guess…Marvel is either completely unaware of the message of negativity that is being sent by these stories and actually believe in this right winged extreme ideology (which I really don’t think is the case) or they plan on retconning the hell out of the whole 616 universe DC Crisis style. Having Stark keep pushing with his futuristic (which I always found tantalizing and could relate to) ideals until he makes some drastic error and completely wipes out the universe only to have it replaced with a clean continuity in which Marvel can rebuild their franchise to draw in new readership and further push their newest, biggest, and seemingly most profitable venture, their movies.

Wow…that went on a bit longer than I thought but hey I feel better for getting that off my chest. I’m sure most of it was discombobulated and I thank anyone that stuck through to hear my point of view. Please make comments if you have any, I’d love to hear others impressions on Marvel’s new state.

And Marvel, I still love you just…what happened?

-Kevin

[clubzone69]

if Marvel's serious about this new direction, can they at least update the swashbuckler style boots?!? That was one thing i was liked about the Ultimate Cap costume...reminiscent of the old style but very modern to appeal to today's audience.

[Maurice M]

Personally, I think that if anyone replaces Cap', it should be the Winter Soldier. That being said, I think that Bucky should be offered the spot, and turn it down. He should tell everyone that, "Captain American wasn't just a symbol, he was a man-- a man named Steve Rogers that we could all only hope to be half as great as. They've tried to fill that uniform with other men, lesser men, on countless occasions, and they've only managed to prove one thing-- there's only one Steve Rogers. There's only one Captain America".

And that is how the character should be retired. There's no need for a legacy. If the other heroes want to live up to his legacy, they should prove that there's much more to being Captain America than wearing a winged mask and carrying around a shield.

Also, the red star that lights up on the Winter Soldier's bionic shoulder should be replaced with a "Cap shield logo". Wonderful statements.

[BlueBeetleIII]

Don't you know even though Marvel puts out god awefull previews you STILL need to buy the comic to be fair? After all poor Marvel has no idea that anybody would'nt like a picture like this

Yes they do. They know it will get a reaction and that's what they want. I don't have to buy a comic to be "fair. I have a right to say "Doesn't look good to me. I won't buy it" Do you buy every single comic they publish?

It is like the false image of Iron Man painted red white and blue. It was an image to cause discussion and have the internet complaining so people would go read it. It is promotion pure and simple.

[prkiii]

I expect it's more misdirection, like the "Cap-American-ized" Iron Man, although I'd enjoy seeing a power struggle of multiple, misdirected Caps trying to fill in Steve's boots.

Interesting either way, though.

If Marvel did that they would be doing the same thing DC did when they killed superman...you had four versions of superman right after his death....hope Marvel does something different than that...

[SpyGuy]

You know, honestly, statements like this make me wonder how old the average p[oster is on these boards. "I only read the MAX series cuz it's, like, adult and stuff. The rest of it suxxors." War Journal is a great book and puts the Pubisher where he belongs- in the Marvel Universe.


Chances are, I'm probably older than you and have been reading comics for twice as long. So yes, I'm more inclined to read the MAX series instead of PUNISHER WAR JOURNAL -- not because it's "adult," but because it doesn't feature something completely ridiculous like Frank Castle in a pseudo-Captain America costume as a cheap sales gimmick.

If you dig PWJ, great, more power to you. Me, I try to have higher standards for my comics and really recommend you do the same. I think it's like watching TV. AMERICAN IDOL can entertain you only so long before you grow up and start watching THE SOPRANOS or ROME instead. Of course, some people watch both shows, which I really don't get either...

[fmcuonzo]

So can we look forward to four Captain America clones in the future until he comes back with long hair and the black U.S. Agent costume?

[Nychavok]

LAMELAMELAMELAMELAMELAMELAMELAMELAMELAME LAMELAMELAMELAMELAMELAMELAMELAMELAMELAME LAMELAMELAMELAMELAMELAMELAMELAMELAMELAME LAMELAMELAMELAMELAMELAMELAMELAMELAMELAME LAMELAMELAMELLAMELAMELAMELAMELAMELAME

MARVEL PLEASE STOP! PUNISHER AS CAP? THATS JUST REALLY PUSHING IT...

[The D]

MAX is the only real Punisher

[tymax1022]

I love it, makes me think of Marshall Law...

[sephiroth617]

Actually the quote is "Never Assume as you'll make an ASS out of U and me"

As I said above, what about all the peole assuming it is going to be great? Are you going to bring up their posts if they say it will be great and then they say it isn't? Shouldn't they wait to read it before judging?

No I'm not because the people who are ragging about this are ragging about Marvel without any basis except for this one picture. At least the one's who are excited now, read it, and then don't like it WILL have a basis because they're read it!

[kimba1970]

I think I have just throw up in my mounth...

***king Marvel...:mad:
They killed my favourite character (Steve Rogers.. and no that's not the same
thing as Captain America) to give us this...

Oh really, I hate Quesada...

[T.Shock]

You know what I was straddling the fence on the Castle as Cap issue since it was first hypothesized. But no more. The 1940s is dead. The "I love stars and stripes and eagles and freedom" Cap doesn't represent America in its current state. There are still patriots and people who believe in this country, but a good majority of them are disillusioned with the way the words "freedom, security, patriotism" are bantered about like talking points for politicians to gain a couple of extra votes.

Not that I'm done explaining the political/real world side of things, I think Frank Castle as Captain America is a perfect and possibly permanent selection. Cancel Punisher War Journal. Let Ennis tackle old-school Punisher over at MAX (which needs more titles...Nextwave, The Loners, etc.) and let Castle become the symbol of modern America. A vendetta of sorts against the high-ranking pro reg guys like Stark while still tackling super criminals and traditional enemies like The Red Skull. Castle as Cap in the hands of Brubaker going up against The Red Skull. Where the hell do I sign up? In my opinion (and that's all this is before people jump all over me), it's time. It's a subtle allegory and it fits within the context of the Marvel Universe (Back In Black/break-up of the FF/X-Men event later this year). If Infinite Crisis was to make the DCU a nicer, more wholesome place to live and be a super-hero, Civil War and Cap #25 made the Marvel Universe a darker, more real place.

EDIT: But please work on that costume. It looks horrible.

[Jon Snow]

Dude, you called me a bitch for saying basically the same thing. I said in my post "ts one thing to have a story about Frank trying to live up to the legacy," but complained about the way they are hyping it. You sir, have confounded me. Calling me a bitch for disliking the marketing, and ignoring the fact that I've said the same thing that you APPARENTLY felt.

Cap has NEVER had this fanfare about his death, and its the publicity that makes this ridiculous. I'm sick of being lied to in marketing, even if it has a temporary sales spike. The marketing ISN'T a good thing, because hype doesn't equal new readers, but speculators. Reports from last Wednesday had non-comics readers buying 20 copies of Cap to sell on E-Bay, bought by many comic fans whose stores were sold out by the time they arrived. Speculators saturated and nearly ruined the market, which is the last thing the comics industry needs. Unless EVERY issue is as media hyped and successful, then it isn't a good thing, because it is sure to drop off, and historically has always dropped off more significantly each time.

I admit, i had to go back and re-read your first post.
Still stand by my words.
And do please tell me when you've seen Marvel "act indignant when they ( the readers)catch on".

1 - If some idiot chose to pay god knows how much for a copy of this comic, and considering that Marvel and Diamond still had like 100,000 copies left, how is this Marvel's fault?

2 - Are comics just for fans? Does that mean that an average guy on the street having heard this wouldn´t like to buy a copy?

3 - And just how can a guy go to a store and buy 20 copies of a book? Or maybe said guy just did a round of the stores and bought as many as he could?

And dude, marketing IS a good thing, it's how a product gets to be sold.

By the way, that point you made how speculators nearly ruined this biz?
How much of that speculation was made by the very same fans?

[Kerouac]

This looks AWSOME! And I don't even like the Punisher, but if he is going to look like this I will at least check it out. Marvel is really pushing the boundaries right now. I don't think you would have ever seen anything like this 3 or 4 years ago.

Seriously? All it takes for you to read a book is the costume?

And no, we wouldn't have seen this 3 or 4 years ago. We would, however, have seen something EXACTLY like this 13 or 14 years ago.

And that's the problem.

If you were being sarcastic with this...well played. ;)

[caleb]

I'm Blind help me!!

Remember when Bill Jemas used to enter newsarama with different names,
and tried to support his ideas?

Sometimes I think that people such as these who like this Punisherica
or Amerisher or Punish America or whatever this is called
are people who just work for Marvel.

This is so ugly and stupid that I want to eat my eyes!
Does Brubaker know about this? Does he aprove it?

I'd like to know his opinion if he enters this forum.

Damn, you beat me to it! I would fully support this direction in all books formerly featuring the Punisher and/or Captain America, but ONLY if they give him a cool amalgated name, like Captain Punisherica.

[foxhound421]

i knew this was going to happen the minute i saw Frank pick up Cap's mask. i think it's a great idea in theory, but i really don't like that costume. i think it's be much more symbolic for Frank to just put on a Captain America costume.

than again while in the Cap costume (at least) Frank would have to refrain from killing people as, and i'm sure he'd realize this, it would just tarnish public opinion of the idea of a Captain America. I think that Frank would realize the sinifigance of what Cap stood for and stick to his code while in the uniform.

i DO see the point that Marvel is trying to "fit a square peg in a round hole" with Frank's never-before-mentioned admiration of Cap though. but i still think it's a good story... IF they do it right.

[BlueBeetleIII]

No I'm not because the people who are ragging about this are ragging about Marvel without any basis except for this one picture. At least the one's who are excited now, read it, and then don't like it WILL have a basis because they're read it!

And how is that different than those saying it will be great? They are praising it wthout any basis except for this one picture. Is it just because they are saying something good?

Both sides are having an opinon without reading it.

And have you ever looked at something and said "Doesn't look good to me"?

[protege]

There is another thread on Newsarama asking "What would it take for you to leave Marvel"?

I think I have my answer. This is disgusting.

Are we in for a "Reign of the Captains America!" ?

This kind of like Americop mixed with Paladin or something.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americop
Possibly, but we still need Teen America, and Cyborg America.

[Razak]

Nice buccaneer boots, there. *snrk*

[Whipsnakes]

JESUS F'N CHRIST!

IT IS NOT GOING TO BE PERMANENT! A STORY ARC!

THEY ARE NOT GOING TO REPLACE CAP WITH PUNISHER

Do you people even read the books you btich about? Bru has been building to Cap's death for a year or more, he won't shoehorn punisher in. That wouldn't make sense. But it would make sense as a story arc in the New punisher - where he is about to fight the Hate Monger ( an old Cap villian I do believe)

[longshot7]

____, do I hate the Punisher.

[Cray_ws]

This is no more of a misdirection than Superman's replacements were after his Death. Iron Man is Cyborg Superman, Punisher is Steel. All we are missing now are the other two fill ins.Young version of Cap to show up, I bet it's Patriot from Young Avengers. The man who will claim he's the real Cap is Isaiah Bradley or his son Josiah X they'll be equivlant to Eradicator Superman.

We been through all this crap before and Marvel will have no guts and bring back Steve Rogers.

[derfla]

[QUOTE=McMonkey Nut]Sh*t on it all you want haters, sh*t on me all you want haters, but I think this looks freakin awesome!!

http://www.newsarama.com/movies/Hellboy/Iron/889new_storyimage3793928_full.jpg


The white goo dripping from his backside doesn't look like sh*t.
Athough this may be an unexpected consequence of his "man crush."

I feel very unclean now.

[deco_la]

Q for all who bitch and moan about the gimmicks, changes, costumes, twists and turns and all that stuff...

do you actually like superhero comics?

I mean, all this stuff -- dying for shock value; coming back to life; changing costumes, crossovers, spin-offs, girl versions of male heroes, all that stuff that seems to piss you off so much -- it's pretty much what superhero comics are all about. Especially nowadays, but pretty much forever. So if all you can do is complain abt spider-man's iron spidey suit, cap being killed, punny dressing like cap, thor clones, etc. etc. I gotta ask why you bother to show up at all. It's like complaining that the chocolate cake is too chocolaty.

There's plenty to read that doesn't do this stuff (hex, 100 bullets, punisher max), so why get all worked up. I mean, I can't stand American Idol, but I don't watch it -- and I don't get all worked up when somebody who's "good" gets voted off. I just watch my porn, er... "Heroes" I mean, "Heroes"... and enjoy that.

[Drcharles]

April fool's arrived early.......?

[sephiroth617]

And how is that different than those saying it will be great? They are praising it wthout any basis except for this one picture. Is it just because they are saying something good?

Both sides are having an opinon without reading it.

And have you ever looked at something and said "Doesn't look good to me"?

The people bashing it are bashing Marvel as well, if you haven't noticed.

Also, the people giving praise are praising the picture, not the story they have not read yet.

This is unlike the people ragging on it right now.

[jbz16]

I'd wait until the book actually comes out before we all get our panties in a bunch.


Yeah cause it's pretty scary when our collective panties get in a bunch!!!! :eek:

[s*p rules]

Giant unbelievable guns, a million little pouches.... seems to me someone is still preoccupied with 1995.

Figured that one out as soon as I heard they killed Cap.

I agree with whomever said it earleir - max-punisher would pull horrible-costume punisher's heart out and light it on fire if he saw him in that get-up. Ape arms or not.

Quesada should have just given Colbert the mask, too, if this is what we're going to get.

[Dallas Bar]

I would really love to hear what Ennis thinks about this? He’s probably either laughing or crying in his Guinness.

But while I’m in the process of posting I got to say…exactly what is happening with Marvel? They play coy about how all of what has happened in the past civil war events and tie ins are just the rational evolution of the marvel universe but I, a rather rational person, can’t make sense of any of it. There is nothing heroic about being responsible for a group of super villains terrorizing, maiming, and ruining others that are trying to do good. There is nothing heroic about “cloning a God” and allowing it to brutally kill a hero, there is nothing heroic about creating a new world order in which you manipulate ad direct every citizens of a nation lives because you feel you have the superior insight to do so. And worst of all, this is all coming from a genuine hero…Tony Stark.

I came into Civil War completely psyched and with out any ill will. I was just getting back into comics (at lease from a stance in which I weekly purchased them) and even throughout the series I remained excited. But now it is over and I read these characters that I have truly become emotionally invested in, and where there is some level of innocence in my others wise realistic and rational life in which I wanted to see someone, not someone flat or one dimensional, but someone fraught with complexity and trials and diversity, actually stand up and do something good…not something they thought was good, not something that the government told them would be good…but something legitimately good that that little shred of innocence inside of me could thrive on. I don’t want this from all of my comics, I love Punisher: Max, Batman, and Dare Devil for that other part of me, the part that thrives on the emotionally complex and dark….But Captain America…Iron Man….both now gone in either a literal or figurative sense…both now leaving me feel empty, confused, un-entertained and tarnished.

Now I’m not the kind of guy that derives his whole life around comics nor am I the kind of guy to shout out that I’ll never read Marvel again. Marvel, if your listening, trust me I will keep buying, you’ve got my money so you don’t have to worry about it. I’ll keep buying because I’m addicted to the continuity. But though I am not one of those aforementioned “guys” you may wonder why it is I would feel so distraught over all of this, I mean their just the funny books right…no they are more than that, I don’t read these things for my damn health, and there is a reason that more people who read comics are guys my age (22) rather than kids. It’s because we find something in them that is appealing, interesting, and at times even moving. And I’ll also note that I’m not societally unaware, just because I read comics doesn’t mean I’m dislike any other responsible adult, I have a real job, a home, and pay my taxes and I keep myself privy to the news of the worlds and I do obviously see the allegory created by Civil War…my thing is though, and I admit I am a bit liberal, they created the allegory and then had the bad guys win. Not Iron Man and Reed as the bad guys, but the guys that strip away what we stand for, our freedoms, for a false premise of our safety.

Here’s my guess…Marvel is either completely unaware of the message of negativity that is being sent by these stories and actually believe in this right winged extreme ideology (which I really don’t think is the case) or they plan on retconning the hell out of the whole 616 universe DC Crisis style. Having Stark keep pushing with his futuristic (which I always found tantalizing and could relate to) ideals until he makes some drastic error and completely wipes out the universe only to have it replaced with a clean continuity in which Marvel can rebuild their franchise to draw in new readership and further push their newest, biggest, and seemingly most profitable venture, their movies.

Wow…that went on a bit longer than I thought but hey I feel better for getting that off my chest. I’m sure most of it was discombobulated and I thank anyone that stuck through to hear my point of view. Please make comments if you have any, I’d love to hear others impressions on Marvel’s new state.

And Marvel, I still love you just…what happened?

-Kevin

Excellent points, Kevin, really!
But I must ask you this: What is "right"?
In the real world, and JQ said to some extent that the Marvel U is in touch with the real world, what is right isn't always what prevails. It's a very grey place we live in...
The whole CW has been about two sides doing " right" ...
I hope this will not be retconned, but exploited and gradually rectified... to what is right to me.

[David_T]

Iron Man is Cyborg Superman
Really? How so?

[BillReed]

Um... why bother with a new costume for the "new Cap" if he's still going to be a gun-toting vigilante maniac?

[BlueBeetleIII]

The people bashing it are bashing Marvel as well, if you haven't noticed.

Also, the people giving praise are praising the picture, not the story they have not read yet.

This is unlike the people ragging on it right now.

Wow we must be reading different posts. Becuase I see people saying things like "marvel is doing great now ", "Shaking us out of complanancy", & "Things like this wouldn't be done 2-3 years ago"

They are saying that Frank as the punisher is going to be great.

And what is wrong with bashing Marvel? You can not like a direction the company as a whole takes you know. And does it say anywhere "You may not bash Marvel."

[Razak]

This is no more of a misdirection than Superman's replacements were after his Death. Iron Man is Cyborg Superman, Punisher is Steel. All we are missing now are the other two fill ins.Young version of Cap to show up, I bet it's Patriot from Young Avengers. The man who will claim he's the real Cap is Isaiah Bradley or his son Josiah X they'll be equivlant to Eradicator Superman.If anything, I'd say Punisher would be Eradicator Superman since, well, that's what he does.. eradicate people. And Iron Man would be Steel Superman, if not for the same mentality or personality then for the high-tech suit of armor.

Patriot = Superboy makes sense, since Patriot's the young, new kid on the block. That just leaves Cyborg Superman, and I can see the Winter Soldier filling that spot, on account of his cybernetic arm.

[khuxford]

Possibly, but we still need Teen America, and Cyborg America.

Teen America would be The Patriot and Cyborg America would be Winter Soldier. Duh. :p

[foxhound421]

does it occur to anyone else that Marvel released this image just to guage fan(boy) reaction?

[NeoSamurai]

The picture shows Punisher as a pseudo-Captain America. The basic premise can be pulled from that image. For the longest time (even in recent 616) Punisher has been portrayed as one of the most realistic of the 616 characters. This has been consistent up to PWJ#4 and includes his appearances in the last four years in Daredevil (arguing the point that Frank did not "return" to the 616--fans who keep espousing that claim have some selective memory or don't follow the character). The idea of Frank taking up costume vigilantism for any cause is ludicrous. Now, don't get me wrong--Frank will wear a mask/disguise if he needs to for tactical reasons but this is a major stretch. Whoever said it's like putting a square peg into a round hole makes an apt analogy for any Punisher fan.

Regardless of Fraction's writing, I think PWJ is one book that's been pushed into a certain direction by EiC and this picture (if true) shows.

[Crusader K]

Captain Right Wing Death Squad?
Captain Contra?

LOL - exactly.

Nice statement on what seems to be the current US foreign policy.

[sephiroth617]

Wow we must be reading different posts. Becuase I see people saying things like "marvel is doing great now ", "Shaking us out of complanancy", & "Things like this wouldn't be done 2-3 years ago"

They are saying that Frank as the punisher is going to be great.

And what is wrong with bashing Marvel? You can not like a direction the company as a whole takes you know. And does it say anywhere "You may not bash Marvel."

"Bash Marvel" is a recurring theme. I'm sorry that you've only seen it in this thread.

The positive posts are different from the negative posts. The positive posts are giving it a chance while the negative are not. There's a big difference there, I'm sorry that you can not see this.

[FanBoyKevbo]

Excellent points, Kevin, really!
But I must ask you this: What is "right"?
In the real world, and JQ said to some extent that the Marvel U is in touch with the real world, what is right isn't always what prevails. It's a very grey place we live in...
The whole CW has been about two sides doing " right" ...
I hope this will not be retconned, but exploited and gradually rectified... to what is right to me.

Dallas Bar,

Thanks for responding to my post. I've posted a handful of times on newsarama and this is the first I've ever got a response from someone so you defintely made my day. I defintely see your point about what is real and how everything is gray but, and this may sound naive, I don't know if I always want that. I'm fine with stark winning, and i'm fine with there being a disconnect between the reg hereos and the un-reg hereos in hiding. but what i just can't get behind, and actually makes me feel ill while I read it, is when I read through the initiative and in one frame I see Iron Man in glimmering light ready to forge his prosperity upon us helpless citizens and then in the next page i see the thunderbolts taking a relatively innocent man, trapping him in a tight environment and then violently and traumetically beeting the hell out of him...and then even a few more pages after that i see this beautiful young girl, soaring through the air, an image that makes the reader feel excited and free and then to have Marvel Girl crush that for us, telling Cloud-9 that she can't fly (a symbol of her expressing herself) with out following the guidelines and restrictions implemented by those bigger and stronger than her.

Again, maybe I'm looking to far into this but to me the imagey and sybolizim is there and thats how it makes me feel.

Good talking with you and I apologize for an typos, I didn't use a processor and I'm a horrible speller : )

And hey, while I have an audience of one...Check out my short films, they're scifi related so you might dig them. They both also screened at The San Diego Comic Con '05 & '06, respectively.

Poof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1V8Fc8nFxEI

The Day Tomorrow Came: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aFRekXTdvo

-Kevin

[Speedball93]

Seriously? All it takes for you to read a book is the costume?

And no, we wouldn't have seen this 3 or 4 years ago. We would, however, have seen something EXACTLY like this 13 or 14 years ago.

And that's the problem.

If you were being sarcastic with this...well played. ;)
I do think the visual is interesting and the story possibilites could take us in some really cool directions. Brubaker and Fraction have not missed a mark yet on anything that they ahve done and I would like to see what they have to offer on this. haven't been happy with a lot ( read as MOST) of the decision making going on at Marvel right now, but there is something about this that tickles my fancy.

[NeoSamurai]

The positive posts are different from the negative posts. The positive posts are giving it a chance while the negative are not. There's a big difference there, I'm sorry that you can not see this.

And the "postive posts" are decrying that the criticizing posters have no basis to comment and attribute the complaints as whining despite the fact that legitimate reasons have been posted.

[Dark Light]

I don't think they would make Frank the new Cap. If this is true, what a horrible costume! My guess is that the Winter Soldier will be the new Cap. Also, the Punisher does not belong in the regular Marvel Universe!

The Punisher belongs to ENNIS!

[pop monkey]

DO IT!! Shake it up, Marvel! THat's what I like to see!

[GOSD]

Smells like bull$hit to me.

[sephiroth617]

And the "postive posts" are decrying that the criticizing posters have no basis to comment and attribute the complaints as whining despite the fact that legitimate reasons have been posted.

What legitimate reasons?

Again, I ask how do you know they are legitimate reasons unless you read the damn book? Maybe there's a reason the negative posters are overlooking. It's a possibility you know.

Nobody will know until the book comes out.

[BlueBeetleIII]

"Bash Marvel" is a recurring theme. I'm sorry that you've only seen it in this thread.

The positive posts are different from the negative posts. The positive posts are giving it a chance while the negative are not. There's a big difference there, I'm sorry that you can not see this.

I know the bash Marvel is there. Just don't care. It doesn't matter to me if someone bashes something I like or not. Doesn't take away from my enjoyment. It shouldn't do it to yours. There is still nothing wrong with the bashing. I'm sorry you can't see that.

The positive threads aren't giving it a chance. Saying it is going to be great, saying it is going to be a masterpiece or such is not giving it a chance. it is making a judgement without reading it. For them to complain about people having an opinon on something they haven't read while at the same time making a judegment on something they haven't read is hypcritical. What they are really complaining about is people not liking it. If people said "It is going to be great" then they would be happy.

If you can't see that I'm sorry.

I'm sorry that you can't see that that has been on other threads besides this one too.

[johnchrist]

HAHAHAHAHA!
I just love Newsarama, you guys give me such great entertainment while between projects at work. There are the 10% normals who say "hey, cool stuff," or "meh, not my thing" then there is the 80% who say (no matter what preview they see) "I hate you Marvel/DC/Vertigo/Image/Archie Comics!!! I hate everything about you that has changed since 1960/70/80/90!!!" Then someone out of the final 10% of enthusiasts posts a comment akin to "I love this, this rocks, gimmie more!" and the anonymous net-handle flame war begins.
And whoever it was who said half the haters will like this (if it is in fact not a Red Herring) was absolutely correct. I remember the threads during "Iron Spidey," everyone tripped over it (I was never too estatic over the costume either) and then a week later half of the same people were saying how it grew on them, and then one more week later the entire community was geeking out over the new suit's tech.
I guess I'm just curious, why all the half-crazed online screaming right off the bat? Is it because you're bored or because you're trying to feel above everyone else's ideas, or just cause you generally like giving people crap anonymously?
Honestly... I'm just curious

[Xero]

Nope, people are thinking the wrong way on Cyborg Supes. Who did Cyborg Supes turn out to be? Hows about Red Skull as the new Cap, he is cloned from Steve. What better way to bring down America than take over the role? Just needs a new body or something.

Now you're getting into Golden Age territory, that's a whole other kettle of fish. Cap would get some really neat atomic powers though...

[pop monkey]

BWAHAHAHA! Look at all the pretty 1990s pouches! Stab his eyes!
That IS a lot of pouches. But, to be fair, if anyone needs a lot of pouches, its Frank. Y'know, for spare clips!

[NeoSamurai]

What legitimate reasons?

616 most realistic character becoming unrealistic by making a man-crush Cap-costume doesn't seem legitimate? no tactical reason exists for Punisher to do so.

Again, I ask how do you know they are legitimate reasons unless you read the damn book? Maybe there's a reason the negative posters are overlooking.

or maybe there's reasons you refuse to acknowledge. Punisher fans have been burnt in the past (Heavenly assassin Punisher--anyone?). Maybe we're more aware of a good Punisher story than you would think and can recognize the potential for crap pretty easily.

Nobody will know until the book comes out.

and by then it might just be too late.

[Trusty Mutsi]

Are we in for a "Reign of the Captains America!" ?

This kind of like Americop mixed with Paladin or something.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americop

I was thinking the EXACT same thing.

America Boy, Power Armor Cap, Cyborg Cap, and Cosmic Cap.

[BlueBeetleIII]

What legitimate reasons?

Again, I ask how do you know they are legitimate reasons unless you read the damn book? Maybe there's a reason the negative posters are overlooking. It's a possibility you know.

Nobody will know until the book comes out.

So if they replaced Wolverine with a retarded chimp or a 3 week old dead badger would you say "Wait to you read it"

Could there be a reason they are not over looking? It is a possibility you know.

[Jon Snow]

I was thinking the EXACT same thing.

America Boy, Power Armor Cap, Cyborg Cap, and Cosmic Cap.

And instead you'll get a great story by Bru, Epting, Fraction et al.

I swear.

One picture, ONE, merits eight pages of ranting...

I'm with the One-Winged Angel.

[darkever]

There is only 1 Punisher, and it's the MAX Punisher.

Though Cap-Punisher vs. The Russian would be an interesting Cold War fight. Like when Rocky beat Communism.

[sephiroth617]

Maybe we're more aware of a good Punisher story than you would think and can recognize the potential for crap pretty easily.

Key word is bolded. It could be crap, but you don't know.

BB: This doesn't take away from my enjoyment of Marvel. It takes away from my enjoyment of dealing with fanboys. Also, I don't believe I posted my opinion on this. Only that I would give it a chance. Didn't say it was going to be "awesome" or "utterly ridiculous".

It's always a ton of negative threads versus one positive thread.

[BlueBeetleIII]

And instead you'll get a great story by Bru, Epting, Fraction et al.

I swear.

One picture, ONE, merits eight pages of ranting...

I'm with the One-Winged Angel.

What do we get if you are wrong? Since you're promising and swearing.

And who is to judge that it is a great story?

[NeoSamurai]

And instead you'll get a great story by Bru, Epting, Fraction et al.


Bru's story is independent of the Captain Punisher (which I'm betting has more to do with editorial mandate than what Fraction actually wants to write).

[sephiroth617]

So if they replaced Wolverine with a retarded chimp or a 3 week old dead badger would you say "Wait to you read it"

Could there be a reason they are not over looking? It is a possibility you know.

Yes, I would because it would possibly be a joke issue.

[BlueBeetleIII]

BB: This doesn't take away from my enjoyment of Marvel. It takes away from my enjoyment of dealing with fanboys. Also, I don't believe I posted my opinion on this. Only that I would give it a chance. Didn't say it was going to be "awesome" or "utterly ridiculous".

It's always a ton of negative threads versus one positive thread.

Never said you did. Saying that those that do say it is is awesome you ignore. But I realize I won't be able to show you it is just as bad. If it was 8 pages of "This is great" would you say anything?

[BlueBeetleIII]

Yes, I would because it would possibly be a joke issue.

Did I say it was ajoke issue? No it would be the next 9 month story speci.

Nope Wolvierine is dead and this is the new direction.

[Iago27]

The tagline for a Punisher as Cap series should read:

"Putting the Red into Red, White and Blue"

:p

Seriously, guys running around trying to be Cap seems a little lame to me.

[Jon Snow]

What do we get if you are wrong? Since you're promising and swearing.

And who is to judge that it is a great story?

Beetlebum, chill...

I said "I swear" as a way of venting, not as a way of promising anything.

I can judge that it will be at least a very good story considering all the talent involved.
They've never let me down.

I bear no ill will towards this story.
I prefer to let it unfold, and if i am disappointed, well then, so be it.

Will you, if this indeed proves to be a good story, stand by your point, or will you say that you were always in favor of this, as is wont to happen to so many who peruse these boards?

[NeoSamurai]

Key word is bolded. It could be crap, but you don't know.

crap = something I don't like.
i don't like Captain Punisher = crap

My opinion.


BB: This doesn't take away from my enjoyment of Marvel. It takes away from my enjoyment of dealing with fanboys.

:rolleyes: irony.
you're the one bahsing the opinions of fanboys who don't like Cap Punisher as a concept.


Only that I would give it a chance.

That's you're right.


It's always a ton of negative threads versus one positive thread.

You must pick out only the controversial and polarizing threads to read then to make that generalization without reading the other threads.

[sephiroth617]

Never said you did. Saying that those that do say it is is awesome you ignore. But I realize I won't be able to show you it is just as bad. If it was 8 pages of "This is great" would you say anything?

No, honestly, because people are positive about it and willing to give it a chance.

"If you don't have anything good to say, don't say it at all".

Most of the negative posts are Anti-Marvel rants. If you don't like it, don't buy it, plain and simple.

[Jon Snow]

Bru's story is independent of the Captain Punisher (which I'm betting has more to do with editorial mandate than what Fraction actually wants to write).

And you are betting because?
Do you have sources?

[sniperboy65]

They're joking, right? Marvel really can't be proposing this design.

Where is Pez Depenser to bash me?

[God-Man]

That new costume is seven shades of awful.

[NeoSamurai]

I prefer to let it unfold, and if i am disappointed, well the, so be it.

the thing is, fans of the story want one worth the money paid for the price. that means expectations need to be met for the money exchanged. a lot of comic fans in general don't want to lay down the $3 for a book to confirm their initial opinion of it being crap--let alone $15. if a book is going to be good, there tends to be indicators ahead of time.

[TheGrayHulk]

Please people calm down. This doesn't mean anything. It's just Marvel messing with your heads (they just love doing that). This is just like the "Is this the new Fantastic Four?" teaser covers... Expect in the coming days some other teaser covers with Falcon in a Cap costume or maybe Hawkeye with stars on his costume and so on...

All I'm saying is WAIT before you go berserk over this.

[havok_989]

Anyone else think that Clint Barton will be the new Cap?

[NeoSamurai]

And you are betting because?
Do you have sources?
Just most of the interviews where Brubaker's focusing on Captain America in his title past issue#26 and the fact that PWJ is a new series that they won't can.

Now that doesn't mean Cap Pun will not be used in Bru's book--just that they're not intrinisically joined at the hip that it could all fall apart.

[RedRonin]

No wings? Damn. That would make this even better.

[Ace]

And instead you'll get a great story by Bru, Epting, Fraction et al.

I swear.

One picture, ONE, merits eight pages of ranting...

I'm with the One-Winged Angel.

Gee, now I wonder if there's any potential causality for this?

Or is it REALLY just a case of fans being that silly on the internet.

You don't think it's possible that there might be any other causes?

Maybe it's because people don't that Marvel has a very good track record over the last few years?

I've got faith in Bru, somewhat less faith in Fraction, and I've still got a lot of doubts on what this is going to do, because I don't have a lot of faith in the central direction of Marvel.

[sephiroth617]

crap = something I don't like.
i don't like Captain Punisher = crap


:rolleyes: irony.
you're the one bahsing the opinions of fanboys who don't like Cap Punisher as a concept.




You must pick out only the controversial and polarizing threads to read then to make that generalization without reading the other threads.

Again, I ask you how you don't like Captain Punisher when you haven't read how it will unfold? All you've seen is the costume and THAT looks like crap to you. You're not willing to give it a chance.

I'm quite aware that I'm bashing. See how annoying it is to read bash posts? That's how I feel every time Marvel does something and a billion Anti-Marvelites come out of the woodwork. It's no secret that Newsarama is predominately DC fans (which I read as well).

Nope, I read all the threads concerning the topics. I'm not the only one to notice the trend around here of 1000 negative threads vs few positive.

BB: I'd still read it.

[sephiroth617]

All I'm saying is WAIT before you go berserk over this.

Too bad they won't.

[NeoSamurai]

It's no secret that Newsarama is predominately DC fans (which I read as well).

whoa! you really believe that? you might want to consider doing a bit more research.

Nope, I read all the threads concerning the topics. I'm not the only one to notice the trend around here of 1000 negative threads vs few positive.

you have way too much time on your hands if you read all the threads on the site. Additionally, I could point you out to at least five threads on this sight that don't have the "hater" negative posts that you claim exist and generalize to the whole.

[Ace]

Again, I ask you how you don't like Captain Punisher when you haven't read how it will unfold? All you've seen is the costume and THAT looks like crap to you. You're not willing to give it a chance.

I'm quite aware that I'm bashing. See how annoying it is to read bash posts? That's how I feel every time Marvel does something and a billion Anti-Marvelites come out of the woodwork. It's no secret that Newsarama is predominately DC fans (which I read as well).

Nope, I read all the threads concerning the topics. I'm not the only one to notice the trend around here of 1000 negative threads vs few positive.

BB: I'd still read it.

We're all pretty devoted fans or else we wouldn't be here.

You can't know exactly how something will go (personally, I'm not sure if this is just going to show how unfit Frank is as a character to represent the American Dream, or if it's going to be straight and show how out of touch Marvel is with what I want. It could be either. The issues of PWJ so far have made me think it'd be the latter)...

But you can know who the writer is, who the editor is, the general direction of Marvel, what you've heard in interviwes, what you've seen through comics history before, and the preview image and make a damn good guess. An educated guess.

Everyone who posts on this board is a student of the industry and of the genre, at least a little. Or else we wouldn't care enough to be here. And with 95% of projects that come out from Marvel and DC, you can get a pretty good idea of whether you'll like it or approve of it or not long before it comes out.

Occasionally something will take you by surprise, like.. Frank Tieri's Weapon X surprised me. I thought I'd hate it. I didn't. Chuck Dixon's Connor Hawke mini surprised me. I thought I'd like it. I really liked it (so far). I thought I'd love Bru's Uncanny; I haven't.

But past that, if you've read enough of a character and a writer and are following the general direction of the line, you can get a damn good idea of what's going to happen and whether you'll like it or not.

I really, truly hate the argument that you can't make an educated opinion about something, and yes, one that you don't have to start by saying "I think.."

[Jon Snow]

the thing is, fans of the story want one worth the money paid for the price. that means expectations need to be met for the money exchanged. a lot of comic fans in general don't want to lay down the $3 for a book to confirm their initial opinion of it being crap--let alone $15. if a book is going to be good, there tends to be indicators ahead of time.

So you see ONE image, that may not even be a real one at that, and you assume it's going to be crap?

Oy...

Ever heard of that old adage "Don't judge a book by its cover"?

Above all, i have faith in the creators.
If this was being done say, by Liefeld and one of his Extreme buddies, i'd have good reasons to shudder.
And understand, i have NOTHING against said creators, their work just does not ressonate with me, that´s all.

Now, we're talking about established pros here.
Bru. Epting. Fraction.
It's going to be good.
It may not be the story that you'd like to see, but there IS an assurance of quality by just having those names attached.

And, man, if you have expectations, why do they have to be negative?
Don't you even entertain the notion that this may not be what is may appear to be?

There is a good thing, my friend, called "The fifthe element", that as Terry Pratchett would say, is the element of surprise.

Why not let yourself be surprised?

[sephiroth617]

whoa! you really believe that? you might want to consider doing a bit more research.



you have way too much time on your hands if you read all the threads on the site. Additionally, I could point you out to at least five threads on this sight that don't have the "hater" negative posts that you claim exist and generalize to the whole.

So if I don't read the threads, I don't know what I'm talking about but if I do read the threads, I have too much time?

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with that statement. :rolleyes:

Yes, I do believe it because it's been stated by numerous other people other than me. Mods have even stated it.