TALKING SHOP: CAPTAIN AMERICA #25 - THE VIEW FROM THE TRENCHES

[MattBrady]

<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/CapAmerica/DDream/CAPA025_dc_t.jpg" border="0" align="right"><i>by Vaneta Rogers</I>

As fans scrambled last week to pick up issues of <b>Captain America #25</b>, retailers had one of their best Wednesdays of the year as people who haven't set foot into a comics shop in years -- or some, never before -- were stopping by to pick up the hot issue containing the poignant death of one of America's most visible superheroes.

Yet along with the sales came some disappointment among fans and shop owners, as they wondered if the fervor over Cap's death couldn't have been better capitalized upon. For our latest installment of Talking Shop, Newsarama talked to a group of retailers about the issue and asked for their thoughts and perceptions of one of the most publicized superhero deaths of the decade.

One of the main concerns raised after the news broke about the issue was that retailers were caught by surprise, leading to the issue being sold out quickly at local shops and potential new customers being turned away. Every retailer we surveyed sold out of the issue on Wednesday -- most in two to four hours after opening -- leaving many wondering if shop owners should have been given spoilers that would alert them to the real sales potential of the pivotal issue so they could have at least attempted to fulfill the demand.

"I think every retailer wishes they would have ordered more," said Jason Pierce, owner of Alter Ego Comics in Muncie, Ind. "We received virtually no information about this issue being this big. When they did eventually say that is was going to be big, our F.O.C. [final order cut-off] for this issue had passed. I think most retailers can distinguish between comics that are over-hyped for the sake of trying to help it sell and hype that <i>will</i> make it sell. <b>Marvel Zombies vs. Army of Darkness</b> got a lot of hype and <i>will</I> sell well. The Black Panther wedding dress issue got a lot of hype and didn't sell well. I don't think it was too tough for retailers to see the difference between those two comics, but we weren't given enough information on the Captain America issue to be able to make that distinction."

However, Pierce and a few other retailers said they understand the need for secrecy when it comes to spoilers.

<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/CapAmerica/DDream/Cap25_01.jpg" border="0" align="left">"If we had <i>all</i> the info, someone would have leaked it weeks ago, and there wouldn't have been the same amount of frenzy and excitement that steered so many new faces to our shop all this week," said Rick Shea, owner of Famous Faces & Funnies in Melbourne, Fla. "I would have loved a more solid confirmation of what was happening here, but again, I understand the catch-22 Marvel had to deal with here, and don't quite have a solution that would work completely. Considering such a tough situation, I really feel Marvel did what they could to try to find the best possible scenario in an almost impossible situation."

However, Shea wondered if a stronger hint couldn't have been given to alert retailers -- considering they're always told issues are "big."

"Marvel told us that we should really order high on <b>Captain America #25</b>, but I've certainly been burned by believing the hype in the past, and the actual issue not living up to the hype," he said. "I still know dealers with dozens to hundreds of unsold copies of <b>House of M, Truth, Trouble, Namor, Brave New World</b> or other 'sure things.' However, no one I know is stuck with <b>Captain America # 25</b>, and I wish we would have had a bigger hint that this really was going to be as big a hit as it is."

"Of course we wished we'd ordered more," said Mike Wellman, co-owner of The Comic Bug in Manhattan Beach, Calif. "As soon as I read the headline on Yahoo Wednesday morning, we got on the horn with Diamond to order 200 more copies. I think even that number may be too low considering the outpouring of people wanting to purchase the book. Both Marvel and DC have been telling us for years that 'This issue is going to be <i>big</I>! Don't miss it!' I'm numb to statements like that nowadays. Short of telling us exactly what was going to happen (and therefore spoiling the ending), I don't know what Marvel could have done."

<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/CapAmerica/DDream/Cap25_02.jpg" border="0" align="right">Others questioned the need for complete secrecy in solicitations, some pointing out that the death of Superman had been spoiled by the publisher, but still sold well and was hailed as a powerful story.

"I disagree that solicitations with spoilers ruin the story. They ruin the news impact on date of issue (witness Batwoman), but the enjoyment of the story is (or should be) in the journey, not necessarily the arrival," said Paul Stock, owner of Librarie Astro in Montreal, Canada. "Although this Cap issue was pretty transparent, if publishers insist on holding their cards even closer to their chests, I would like to see them engage a panel of respected retailers, who both the publishers and other retailers can trust, to give their opinions of the marketability of an 'event' issue, without revealing the details."

"Marvel could have easily let us in on it earlier in such a way that we wouldn't know <i>what</i>
happened but that we definitely needed more," said Jamie Graham of Graham Cracker Comics in Chicago. "I know they do not want to hear this, but they could have followed DC and what they did with <b>JLA #117</b> (I believe). What DC did was let us know that this issue was a vital <b>Infinite Crisis</b> issue and we will need bunches of it, however it doesn't say that on the cover. So they let us know there was a pivotal issue we needed, but they could not tell us about the ending -- yet they were concerned enough to let us know so we could take care of everybody who wanted it."

Several retailers echoed Stock's idea of a "panel" of trusted retailers who could hear spoilers, then just share their perception of the sales increase it would cause, without sharing the actual spoilers with everyone. But no matter what the solution, everyone just wanted more of a warning -- from someone, somewhere. "We could have been contacted by our Diamond rep during F.O.C. We have a DC rep that lets us know about 'big' events without actually spelling it out," said Bob Moreau, manager of Westfield's Comics Etc. in Madison, Wisc.

While the need for secrecy was hotly debated, some retailers pointed out that they believe an error was made when Marvel apparently didn't release their overprint to or at least communicate well with their distributor -- Diamond Comics -- as the overprint wasn't immediately available. Even those retailers who heard hints of the issue's importance weren't able to increase their orders after FOC.

Usually, retailers cannot <i>reduce</I> their orders after FOC, but they can <i>increase</i> them as long as more issues are available, leaving retailers wondering why they weren't given that opportunity on this issue, since they now know there were plenty of copies available at the publisher.

"We attempted to order more. While generally increases that ship with initial [orders] are accepted and processed up to a few days before shipment, this book has been 'going to backorder' (which effectively means 'sold out at Marvel') for close to two weeks," said Stock of Librarie Astro. "It would appear that Marvel put a block on increase activity. What they could have done was notify us that such was the case, instead they created a sort of artificial shortage situation. I have no idea why they did this. Unless I'm mistaken they haven't blocked increase activity after the FOC since Bill Jemas left, but they chose to surprise us.

<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/CapAmerica/DDream/Cap25_03.jpg" border="0" align="left">"As customer interest grew, I conducted my business as I normally would -- carefully monitoring my customers' wants, and matching my orders appropriately," he continued. "Marvel chose not to accept my orders, nor anyone else's. I have no idea why."

However, Diamond distributors did communicate the existence of the overprint to retailers the next day, with retailers being told on Thursday afternoon that if they had requested backorders by noon, they would get the original printing of the comic. Yet retailers were not told about this <i>before</i> the noon deadline.

"We were told by Diamond that they were not taking reorders -- only backorders for the book," said Graham of Graham Crackers Comics, pointing out that "reorders" mean that there are copies readily available for shipment while "backorders" means there are not. "Many, many retailers hate backorders because of history with Diamond when they would truly mess it up. Some of us have that history so we don't do backorders. Some do. Now then, Diamond sends an email at 4:30 p.m. Thursday that orders needed to be in by noon Thursday to be direct shipped. Otherwise we will have to wait to receive the books until approximately the 19th of March. And what good does that do me?"

Shop owners also pointed out that they weren't warned early enough about the addition of a variant cover, which would have been another reason to increase their orders because many collectors buy two issues when there are two covers. The presence of variant covers might also have alerted them to the importance of the issue, retailers said.

However, most retailers thought that the situation was handled pretty well by the publisher, considering the unpredictable media coverage and resulting demand. And everyone was pleased Marvel had enough foresight to overprint the original issue.

"I'm satisfied with Marvel's handling of the situation," said Joel Pollack of Big Planet Comics in Bethesda, Md. "They were lucky to get a lot of media focus on a slow news day. They are also offering us quick restocks, as they over-printed significant quantities."

<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/CapAmerica/DDream/Cap25_04.jpg" border="0" align="right">"I’ve been very critical of Marvel in the past, however this time they made all the right moves --from dropping hints to retailers, releasing the story to the media even holding copies of the book from Diamond," said J.C. Glindmyer of Earthworld Comics in Albany, N.Y. "It was a brilliant marketing strategy."

And everyone agreed that they were pleased to have such widespread media coverage from the successful Marvel marketing machine. "Nothing better than turning on the evening news and find that everyone is talking about comics!" said Wellman of The Comic Bug. "This proves once again what a vital part of the American culture these characters are."

Another concern retailers expressed was the way ebay sellers were capitalizing on the frenzy for the issue (http://search.ebay.com/CAPTAIN-AMERICA-25_W0QQcatrefZC6QQfromZR10QQfsooZ1QQfsop Z1QQftrtZ1QQsacatZQ2d1QQsatitleZCAPTAINQ 20AMERICAQ20Q2325). Along with the perception that there was a shortage of issues in stories came the desperate ebay purchases by fans and speculators, with prices reaching a high of around $50 per issue by late in the day.

"We did not under-order, we just hit an artificial wall," said Stock of Librarie Astro. "I'm a little dismayed, no, very dismayed at the ebay activity. From all indications there is no shortage of this book. It should not be commanding inflated prices, and it should not be offered as having any kind of rarity, and yet the prices and hype on ebay indicate the opposite."

Barger of Wonderworld Comics also questioned whether one ebay seller might have been given information that other retailers were not, as Wizard Universe, which is owned by the same company as Wizard Magazine, sold hundreds of issues of Captain America #25</b> (http://search.ebay.com/CAPTAIN-AMERICA-25_W0QQcatrefZC6QQfposZ78751QQfromZR10QQ fsooZ1QQfsopZ1QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsacatZQ2 d1QQsadisZ200QQsassZwizarduniverseQQsati tleZCAPTAINQ20AMERICAQ20Q2325QQsbrftogZ1 QQsellerZ1QQsofocusZbs) on ebay on Wednesday at prices from $10 to $50 an issue. "I think this is a case of life imitating art," Barger said. "In <B>Civil War Frontline #11</b>, we find out that Tony Stark and Stark Industries were the real profiteers behind the entire Civil War. And now we find out that Wizard Magazine has abused their privilege as one of comics' media sources to get info on this book, get a variant for their convention exclusive the week after it's released, and on top of that, have their sales arm of the company order way in excess of what any retailer was privy to and start selling them on ebay the morning the story broke -- before many of us were even open to start selling the book to our customers."

<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/CapAmerica/DDream/Cap_pages-2_t.jpg" border="0" align="left">"If they really had that much foresight to order that many more issues of this comic to sell on ebay, then kudos to them," said Pierce of Alter Ego about all the ebay sellers who capitalized on the situation. "But it seems that there was the equivalent of insider trading going on. Some information was passed that the rest of the retailing world didn't seem to get."

Shea of Famous Faces & Funnies agreed. "Wizard seems to be the biggest offender in this situation and I'm sure this won't be the last time an event like this has them at the center of it," he said. "As they've now revealed their upcoming Cap cover on the next <i>Wizard</i> issue featuring 18 pages of Captain America articles, it's obvious they knew all about this well in advance. As Wizard certainly gets early insider information, it's a complete conflict of interest that they're carrying this comic in such incredibly deep levels and selling them for such insane amounts considering they knew what was going to happen in this issue while no other retailers were clued in. I do understand the reluctance of Marvel to give every retailer all the details as it would have surely slipped out somewhere along the way, and we wouldn't have had the full media blitz that we saw the last few days. However, <i>Wizard</i> being both a news source and an online retailer is really questionable territory."

Graham: "I think that many brick and mortar stores pulled them from their shelves to get the short term gain from ebay etc. We at Graham Crackers did not. Like I told Marvel - I am in this for the long haul. This is our 25th year and I expect to be a pain in people's sides for many to come. What I do not like is a media outlet who sells new comics on their website that is able to capitalize on this through their close relationship with Marvel. As of Thursday they had CGC graded 9.8 and 9.8 issues for sale at $1000.00 each."

However, others questioned the assumption that there was any insider information involved in all the selling going on that day. "I don't think ebay sellers knew any additional information or even had more copies than usual. They just happen to be more visible at times like these," said Bob Smethers of Comic City in Detroit.

And with all the publicity, new faces coming into the stores and excitement generated by the story, retailers said over and over again that they were thankful to have the extra sales and attention on the world of comic books.

"Good Lord, it was crazy!" said Mike Banks, owner of Samurai Comics in Phoenix, Ariz. "The local newspaper called almost immediately, and I knew the blitz was on. Early in the day we limited customers to one of each cover. By midday, however, we realized we would still sell out. We then went to a limit of one per customer.

"Probably the best part was being able to turn some of the people who hadn't been in a comic shop before, onto other comics as well," he said. "We ended up selling several extra copies of titles such as <b>300</b> and <b>Civil War</b> to people who came in looking for <b>Captain America</b>. I even got one person to buy <b>Sleeper Volume One</b>, and he came back today for the other trades!"

Pierce of Alter Ego said, when asked for his general impression of the day: "Brrrring, brrring, 'Hello?' 'Yes, do you have <b>Captain America #25</b>?' 'No, I'm sorry but I don't.' Drink, rinse, repeat."

<center><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/CapAmerica/DDream/Cap25_05.jpg" border="0"></center>

But Pierce said he tried his best to turn the negative of not having the issues into a positive, because it did bring some new people into the store. "It absolutely helped getting people to call and come in the store looking for this issue," he said, "and as a store owner, you have to do your best with that. Of course it hurt that we couldn't accommodate them and have that many more potential customers coming back in for <b>Cap #26</b>, but at least they know I'm here and that I do my best to help them out."

Smethers of Comic City agreed. "Stores with good real estate, meaning visible mainstream locations, are more likely to see long-term benefits from this type of exposure," he said. "I also think how stores handled telling customers they were sold out will determine whether they get repeat business out of this as much as Marvel rushing out the reorders. Would you return to the store that spent time belittling the publisher, or the store that happily took down your name and promised a phone call when more arrived? Where would you go in December when it's time to buy a graphic novel as a Christmas present? Retailers should always look at these things as opportunities to sell their store long term."

<i>As always, the views expressed in <b>Talking Shop</b> represent those of the individuals, and not necessarily those of Newsarama.com, LLC</i>.

[JDoudican]

Definitely could have been handled better.

Joe Q, in my book, always gets a thumbs down though.

[SDM]

That sounds really unfair on Wizard's part. Thank God I don't pay for that magazine anymore.

[Speedball93]

There was a lot of shifty things going on with this whole issue. It will be awhile before all of the fallout is fully felt. I am just glad to see it got new blood into the stores where they could be directed to other great books.

[vbartilucci]

In addition to the order levels issue, if the stores had gotten more advance notice of this, they might have been able to come up with a publicity event for it, or at least a way to get the info to the folks on the phone.

Stores had three months to answer questions from the public about the coming Death of Superman event, and the smart ones had a plan in place, whether that be a special proce on all the books, or just taking names and numbers. Here they got blindsided.

Everybody did well, but if they could have rid the razor's edge between spoilers and "INFORMATION CLASSIFIED" every might have done a lot better.

I mentioned it before, but one possibility might have been Marvel telling stores the issue would be returnable. Maybe allow up to 90% or something of the order could be returned, so stores could buy 10 times what they would normally pick up. If a publisher really wants to get behind a book, make it possible to let stores buy like mad at no risk. DC's doing it with Countdown, and kudos to them. THAT would be a real sign that the publisher is betting on a hit.

I'll be curious to see how everyone reacts the next time a publisher tries to make it clear that stores should go long on a potential new book. Will everyone go long and get stuck, or assume that it COULDN'T happen again, and stick with small amounts?

[Kolimar]

"I think every retailer wishes they would have ordered more," said Jason Pierce, owner of Alter Ego Comics in Muncie, Ind. "We received virtually no information about this issue being this big. When they did eventually say that is was going to be big, our F.O.C. [final order cut-off] for this issue had passed.

Ah, Marvel... Sigh...

[Kolimar]

However, Shea wondered if a stronger hint couldn't have been given to alert retailers -- considering they're always told issues are "big."

That's exactly what I thought.

[RichJohnston]

I saw the advice retailers were given by Marvel before the FOC deadline and it was the same advice they were last given by Marvel over Civil War 2 and the unmasking of Spider-Man. Marvel have become reticent of overhyping to retailers of late, and a number of retailers saw the writing on the wall here.

[cookiejar]

That sounds really unfair on Wizard's part. Thank God I don't pay for that magazine anymore.

yeah, that does sound pretty $hitty of them...

[KenButler3]

What gets me is that I've been buying Captain America since issue 1 where Brubaker started his run, but I couldn't get this issue because I didn't go the comic store like Wednesday morning when it came out. The NY Times gets word of this and in come all the collectors, but the actual guys reading the comic as a series? Screwed, I guess.

[IRONMAIDENX]

Captain America #25 was advertised poorly and it showed.

A large majority of the people looking for this book are only looking for this book. Captain America #25, thanks to its media coverage, is just another speculator market log thrown onto the comic fire.

Will Captain America stay dead...ask Superman or Bucky!

Besides, Captain America, IMO Civil War failed with the point and direction it was trying to achieve. It was to big and too rushed with criss crossing titles and lame built up drama. It had a few good points, but thats about it.

Marvel sets itself up to fail. Next we will see World War Hulk, if nobody gets killed in this anger storm or beaten to a pulp for what they did, this will just be another Marvel fubar. Tons of hype with lame return!

Oh well...

[Kolimar]

Others questioned the need for complete secrecy in solicitations, some pointing out that the death of Superman had been spoiled by the publisher, but still sold well and was hailed as a powerful story.

Yeah, that's what I remembered when the death-as-events comparisons began.

[Kolimar]

"I disagree that solicitations with spoilers ruin the story.

Same here.

[Kolimar]

"Although this Cap issue was pretty transparent, if publishers insist on holding their cards even closer to their chests, I would like to see them engage a panel of respected retailers, who both the publishers and other retailers can trust, to give their opinions of the marketability of an 'event' issue, without revealing the details."

Not a bad idea.

[0bsessions]

I saw the advice retailers were given by Marvel before the FOC deadline and it was the same advice they were last given by Marvel over Civil War 2 and the unmasking of Spider-Man. Marvel have become reticent of overhyping to retailers of late, and a number of retailers saw the writing on the wall here.

And can you name me a single comic in the last decade that got as much media attention as Civil War 2 (Outside of Cap #25 itself, of course)? That sounds less like overhyping and more like a really damn strong hint to me.

[Kolimar]

While the need for secrecy was hotly debated, some retailers pointed out that they believe an error was made when Marvel apparently didn't release their overprint to or at least communicate well with their distributor -- Diamond Comics -- as the overprint wasn't immediately available. Even those retailers who heard hints of the issue's importance weren't able to increase their orders after FOC.

Usually, retailers cannot reduce their orders after FOC, but they can increase them as long as more issues are available, leaving retailers wondering why they weren't given that opportunity on this issue, since they now know there were plenty of copies available at the publisher.

"We attempted to order more. While generally increases that ship with initial [orders] are accepted and processed up to a few days before shipment, this book has been 'going to backorder' (which effectively means 'sold out at Marvel') for close to two weeks," said Stock of Librarie Astro. "It would appear that Marvel put a block on increase activity. What they could have done was notify us that such was the case, instead they created a sort of artificial shortage situation. I have no idea why they did this. Unless I'm mistaken they haven't blocked increase activity after the FOC since Bill Jemas left, but they chose to surprise us.

"As customer interest grew, I conducted my business as I normally would -- carefully monitoring my customers' wants, and matching my orders appropriately," he continued. "Marvel chose not to accept my orders, nor anyone else's. I have no idea why."

However, Diamond distributors did communicate the existence of the overprint to retailers the next day, with retailers being told on Thursday afternoon that if they had requested backorders by noon, they would get the original printing of the comic. Yet retailers were not told about this before the noon deadline.

"We were told by Diamond that they were not taking reorders -- only backorders for the book," said Graham of Graham Crackers Comics, pointing out that "reorders" mean that there are copies readily available for shipment while "backorders" means there are not. "Many, many retailers hate backorders because of history with Diamond when they would truly mess it up. Some of us have that history so we don't do backorders. Some do. Now then, Diamond sends an email at 4:30 p.m. Thursday that orders needed to be in by noon Thursday to be direct shipped. Otherwise we will have to wait to receive the books until approximately the 19th of March. And what good does that do me?"

Shop owners also pointed out that they weren't warned early enough about the addition of a variant cover, which would have been another reason to increase their orders because many collectors buy two issues when there are two covers. The presence of variant covers might also have alerted them to the importance of the issue, retailers said.

Whoa... What a screwed up way to run a business.

[Tom Daylight]

"Solicitations with spoilers [don't] ruin the story"? That's like saying a cheese sandwich doesn't have cheese in it. The very definition of a spoiler is something that spoils the content of a story, thereby ruining the story.

And although this death is only one scene in this particular issue (and remarkably early in the proceedings, in my opinion, which makes me a lot less concerned about this spoiler than I normally would) can you imagine reading the last three issues of Civil War in the full knowledge that Captain America would be asassinated at the end of it? The whole thing would have seemed pointless and therefore boring - and imagine if you got to the end and saw that he didn't die; wouldn't you feel a bit ripped off?

but the enjoyment of the story is (or should be) in the journey, not necessarily the arrival

But don't you see how the fictional journey is so much more interesting and realistic and insightful when it's into the unknown?

PS. To those retailers complaining about Wizard's dubious practices... there's nothing to stop you boycotting their products. With the right sort of letter to accompany it, you'd be cutting them off at the arm that feeds them.

[Darthphere]

"Solicitations with spoilers [don't] ruin the story"? That's like saying a cheese sandwich doesn't have cheese in it. The very definition of a spoiler is something that spoils the content of a story.

Thats what I thought. I mean, if the whole story is bsaed on who murdered Sue Dibney, saying Jean Loring did it in the solicitation sort of ruins the whole thing.

[michaelman9]

if marvel/dc is going to make solicitation info "classified" then they should make the books returnable.

If a retailer has to order on faith, then marvel/DC should cover some of the risk

[mike oxbig]

I tried to talk about the Wizard issue here http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=104370

Even had one of their staff try and defend their position. Then it got derailed.

[Grobbel]

Ah, Marvel... Sigh...

You should check Rich Johnston's response right below yours, as the part you quoted was apparently not true.

[DanteHicks1972]

It seems like any time something doesn't go the retailers way the crying begins. Sometimes it's justified others like this seems like sour grapes. With all the rumors, innuendo etc if Marvel said it was going to be big it's their fault for blowing tem off. The fact that Wizard speculated correctly and made a few extra $$$ more power to them. I'm jus t glad my local retailer held alot of issues back for subscribers who don't normall pull Cap.

[Johnny Smith]

"Wizard being both a news source and an online retailer is really questionable territory."


Wizard's actions are pretty indefensible

[durkadurka]

Consider this: had Marvel revealed that Cap would be dying months in advance, either by a retailer leaking it or just Marvel leaking it themselves, it really would have detracted from the feel of the still ongoing Civil War. Regardless how you feel about Civil War, it was a money maker and got some form of media attention.
Now how would you feel if you were really into Civil War, and this got revealed? It probably wouldn't mean anything to the people who just wanted the comic where Captain America dies, but it would have meant something to people who actually kept up with the story. They would have been PISSED! That's why i see this as different as the Death of Superman. That story was just about superman, while others in the DC Universe were affected. Civil War was about a major part of the Marvel Universe. Revealing it ahead of time would have been a big disservice to people who read the comics weekly instead of just people looking to make some money on ebay or whatever.

[0bsessions]

Same here.

Completely disagreed on my part.

Deaths are a huge letdown if you know it's coming three months in advance. Hell, even a "someone dies here" pulls you a good bit out of the story, because you KNOW someone's going to bite it and you've had months to think about the possibilities of who's going to die and how it might happen.

An emotional and logical buildup TOWARDS a death can be fine with spoilers. Aunt May's death back in the nineties was a natural death and could be seen coming a mile away, but it was a death that was built towards, making it logical and just as sad. Meanwhile, when you know months in advance that someone is going to die in battle, it takes a large amount of umph out of it as you're taken out of the scene.

This can be avoided with a breakneck story. As a recent example, when a character was killed off in a recent episode of Heroes, the episode itself was so gripping, I outright forgot someone was supposed to die and then, BAM, it happened. It's hard for a thirty page book to really keep that thought out of your mind when you know it's supposed to happen.

If we had known three months ago that Captain America was going to die, everything in the book these past three months would've been a foregone conclusion that would have detracted from both the lead up and the event itself. Very little beats the shock and awe of something you truly didn't know was coming. A huge death like Captain America is one you shouldn't know is coming.

Imagine how differently Legion Quest would've played out if we DIDN'T know that Xavier was going to die in the end. Imagine Marvel just kept quiet about Age of Apocalypse and we're watching Legion about to finish off Magneto and then suddenly Xavier jumps right out in front and dies. A death we read about in comics should be as sudden to us as it is to the characters. If it's succumbing to a disease like Aunt May or the Question, it's okay to know ahead, because we've been seeing the buildup towards it for months and it's become a direct inevitability. But if someone falls in battle or is killed suddenly and without warning, then knowing it's going to happen three months before the fact takes the entire element of suspense out of it (Unless it's integral to the plot, like Destiny for example).

For all the faults I personally found in Grant Morrison's run on New X-Men, I don't think I would've cared less when he killed off Magneto if I'd known ahead of time about either his death OR his return two months later.

[bigdaddyhub]

if marvel/dc is going to make solicitation info "classified" then they should make the books returnable.

If a retailer has to order on faith, then marvel/DC should cover some of the risk

Great Idea, I agree.

[jaredgood1]

What gets me is that I've been buying Captain America since issue 1 where Brubaker started his run, but I couldn't get this issue because I didn't go the comic store like Wednesday morning when it came out. The NY Times gets word of this and in come all the collectors, but the actual guys reading the comic as a series? Screwed, I guess.
Ditto here. Both LCS's I frequent were out by noon, I don't do the whole "save X for me" thing (I just really enjoy browsing the racks and actually pulling my pulls).

That being said, at about 1:30 last Wednesday, I logged on to a fairly large online seller and put in an order for Cap # 25 (and some supplies I needed). It shipped Friday, and I should get it on Wednesday. At cover price. So, no real problems.

[khuxford]

And can you name me a single comic in the last decade that got as much media attention as Civil War 2 (Outside of Cap #25 itself, of course)? That sounds less like overhyping and more like a really damn strong hint to me.

Not to have to follow Rich around the internet on this (and I do enjoy his column), but he keeps making a big point that David Gabriel rarely hypes stuff personally and that he hyped this and the Spider-Man unmasking issue.

What he forgets is that he similarly hyped the start of PLANET HULK.

So, prior to this cap issue, his two examples were PLANET HULK and Civil War #2...yet you don't see why, even just taking Gabriel's history into account and no one else, retailers couldn't just order tons based on shallow hints.

[Spaz_Monkey]

"Solicitations with spoilers [don't] ruin the story"? That's like saying a cheese sandwich doesn't have cheese in it. The very definition of a spoiler is something that spoils the content of a story.Thats what I thought. I mean, if the whole story is bsaed on who murdered Sue Dibney, saying Jean Loring did it in the solicitation sort of ruins the whole thing.

How about this - "A year in the making, this is where it happens! The culmination of the Civil War is here! Someone dies, and the Marvel Universe will never be the same"

[Darthphere]

It seems to me that, it being the followup issue after the end of Civil War (even before all the delays) wouldve been enough for retailers to order some extra copies.

[Darthphere]

How about this - "A year in the making, this is where it happens! The culmination of the Civil War is here! Someone dies, and the Marvel Universe will never be the same"

I wonder who is going to die, in the book titles Captain America that wll change the Marvel universe forever? Hmm, I know, Sharon Carter.:rolleyes:

[0bsessions]

How about this - "A year in the making, this is where it happens! The culmination of the Civil War is here! Someone dies, and the Marvel Universe will never be the same"

That's entirely the kind of crap, sensationalistic solicit that ruins stories like this. That's pretty much as close as you can get to saying that Cap dies without OUTRIGHT saying that Cap dies.

I stand entirely by Marvel on this one. The only thing that I agree with is the idea of making issues fully returnable, and even that argument has the flaw of retailers potentially overordering and then Marvel's screwed instead. Otherwise, there's only so far they can go to warn people without runing the story.

[leahcim]

It was so exciting and I believe that is the bottom line! But as a retailer it sure did suck! I run a small mom and pop comic store and wed morning was like an attack. So I'm torn...

[durkadurka]

I stand entirely by Marvel on this one. The only thing that I agree with is the idea of making issues fully returnable, and even that argument has the flaw of retailers potentially overordering and then Marvel's screwed instead. Otherwise, there's only so far they can go to warn people without runing the story.
I agree, but on the other hand Marvel just made an assload of cash from Civil War, and will probably do pretty well with World War Hulk. They could've afforded to take a little risk with this one.

[mookydo]

What gets me is that I've been buying Captain America since issue 1 where Brubaker started his run, but I couldn't get this issue because I didn't go the comic store like Wednesday morning when it came out. The NY Times gets word of this and in come all the collectors, but the actual guys reading the comic as a series? Screwed, I guess.

You should get a comic store that has a pull list, then that wouldn't be a problem. I only got a copy because I had it on the pull list.

Nevertheless, more are on the way and it will certainly be reprinted in trade. With all the scenes shown on websites these days, you're not really missing much of the story or how he dies.

[Prometheus3]

That sounds really unfair on Wizard's part. Thank God I don't pay for that magazine anymore.
Same here. Sounds like a real dick move on Wizard's part.

[0bsessions]

I agree, but on the other hand Marvel just made an assload of cash from Civil War, and will probably do pretty well with World War Hulk. They could've afforded to take a little risk with this one.

I feel it's a non-issue to begin with.

There's a huge second shipment going out in two days (With a second printing allegedly on the way for the end of the month) and looking at MSN.com right now, Captain America is still a popular search topic. Every regular buyer who wants the issue still has a chance to get a first run issue and prospective new readers are still interested.

Almost a week later, and I've still got people asking me about it (Everyone I maintain regular aquaintance with knows I read comics). It looks to me that it's a matter of low loss, high gain in this situation and most of the retailers that are complaining either can't come up with a real better solution or are just whining for the sake of whining.

[Spaz_Monkey]

I wonder who is going to die, in the book titles Captain America that wll change the Marvel universe forever? Hmm, I know, Sharon Carter.:rolleyes:

And that's why you start the solicitation with A year in the making, this is where it happens! The culmination of the Civil War is here! Since CW came down to Cap vs Iron Man, the "culmination of the Civil War" could only appear in one of the two titles. Who dies? Hell, it could be Mary Jane, as she and Aunt May are evicted from Avengers HQ. The rumors of her death have been swirling since before CW started.

[Kid Omega]

I got mine thanks to my friends over at ATOMIC CITY COMICS
(642 SOUTH STREET PHILADELPHIA, PA) I don't subscribe but my homeboys had a few copies tucked under the front counter for loyal readers like me that could not make it out to the shop on Wednesday until 6PM. Now that's customer service!!! :D

[michaeljjt]

I blame my comic shop as much as I blame Marvel, if not more. Not for not ordering enough copies, but for refusing to reserve copies for all their regular customers, while annoying idiot speculators were allowed to talk out with 5-10 copies each.

So 6 days later, I still have not read this book (because Im in school and my shop sold out in 2 hours) and others who dont give a crap about the character are trying to make money on Ebay.

Still, even on re-order they are refusing to hold ONE copy for me. So now I need to cut out of school for an hour just to ensure I can actually read this book when the re-orders come in.

[khuxford]

It seems to me that, it being the followup issue after the end of Civil War (even before all the delays) wouldve been enough for retailers to order some extra copies.

Retailers DID order "some extra copies". They were already ordering more than double what Captain America normally sells. They just weren't ordering "hey...this is going to be covered in the NY Daily News as an exclusive" numbers, let alone "hey...CNN, Yahoo, and a ton of other outlets will be piggybacking on the story" type numbers.

[minimalistx]

What gets me is that I've been buying Captain America since issue 1 where Brubaker started his run, but I couldn't get this issue because I didn't go the comic store like Wednesday morning when it came out. The NY Times gets word of this and in come all the collectors, but the actual guys reading the comic as a series? Screwed, I guess.


I couldn't agree more. I've been reading the Brubaker run since issue #1, and not only was the story spoiled for me due to the media coverage, but of course, by the time I got to my LCBS, they were sold out. Long-time readers have been passed over in favor of phantom future-readers (yeah right, they're all gonna be back for issue #26 of Captain America with no Captain America).

All I know is, as big a Brubaker fan as I am, I won't be buying #26 or any subsequent issues unless and until I have an at-retail-cost copy of #25.

[khuxford]

I feel it's a non-issue to begin with.

There's a huge second shipment going out in two days (With a second printing allegedly on the way for the end of the month) and looking at MSN.com right now, Captain America is still a popular search topic. Every regular buyer who wants the issue still has a chance to get a first run issue and prospective new readers are still interested.

Almost a week later, and I've still got people asking me about it (Everyone I maintain regular aquaintance with knows I read comics). It looks to me that it's a matter of low loss, high gain in this situation and most of the retailers that are complaining either can't come up with a real better solution or are just whining for the sake of whining.

A non-issue?

You're right...what people are searching about on the internet will definitely translate into people making the specific trip to a direct market shop to pick up the comic book this week.

Yes...regular readers will have a shot at it...but retailers won't likely have a second shot at the walk-up business they missed out on this last week.

[mike oxbig]

Still, even on re-order they are refusing to hold ONE copy for me. So now I need to cut out of school for an hour just to ensure I can actually read this book when the re-orders come in.

Dude I'm all for bailing on education but check out Midtown Comics http://www.midtowncomics.com/eshop/topsellers.asp?crypt=HPcog%3F%28NPcog%3F %28WugtKF%3F8%3B%3A78%3B7%3B4%28WutPcog% 3F%28WutV%7Brg%3F%28WutNgxgn%3F

Unlike some they're nice enough to sell the reorder at cover price

Edit: Make that less than cover

[SHIM'TAR]

I for one give Marvel Comics lots of credit for not going for the sure thing, huge sales. Instead they kept the secret close to their vests for as long as possible and didn't spoil what turned out to be a great story. The real fans appreciated this and if you didn't get your copy I'm sure a reprint will be on its way real soon.

[Darthphere]

Retailers DID order "some extra copies". They were already ordering more than double what Captain America normally sells. They just weren't ordering "hey...this is going to be covered in the NY Daily News as an exclusive" numbers, let alone "hey...CNN, Yahoo, and a ton of other outlets will be piggybacking on the story" type numbers.


If thats true, than what is the problem then? If they ordered double, they sold double what they usually would on a Cap comic. I fail to see the problem here.

[Nate28]

If thats true, than what is the problem then? If they ordered double, they sould double what they usually would on a Cap comic. I fail to see the problem here.


Well if you owned a store, what would you rather do.

Sell double your regular order

or

sell 10 times your regular order


Dont forget comic stores have to make mula too, and if a event comic is going to come out where people will buy 5-10 of them. You are going to want to order as many as possible. Also to keep a few in storage to sell down the line for more of a profit to keep up with the demand and a profit.

[Darthphere]

Well if you owned a store, what would you rather do.

Sell double your regular order

or

sell 10 times your regular order


Dont forget comic stores have to make mula too, and if a event comic is going to come out where people will buy 5-10 of them. You are going to want to order as many as possible. Also to keep a few in storage to sell down the line for more of a profit to keep up with the demand and a profit.

I understand that, but I dont see how any retailer got cheated here, especially from the positive aspects of this article with people buying other stuff.

[Colonsus]

Wizard makes me absolutely sick.

This, their attempts to muscle out the Heroes Convention in NC, and other shady business practices in recent years really showcase their unvelievable contempt for comics as an artform, a hobby, and a love.

Wizard is the lowest trash in the entire industry and I for one will never be giving them a penny again.

[vbartilucci]

How about this - "A year in the making, this is where it happens! The culmination of the Civil War is here! Someone dies, and the Marvel Universe will never be the same"
OK, you had me right up until "the Marvel Universe will never be the same" because that's just become a running gag.

Here's a wild promotion idea people coulda tried if they had lots and lots of copies and lots of advance notice...

FREE Capitain America #25 with any $20 purchase!

You give people a choice between paying three bucks for a book and getting it free by spending 20, you'd be AMAZED how many will spend 20 and think they're getting the better of the deal.

And for those looking for the other heavily hyped comic, that would be Dark Tower 1. Stores had lots of notice for that - do I recall hearing stores complain about things Marvel did wrong hyping that too?

[...Dallas...]

What gets me is that I've been buying Captain America since issue 1 where Brubaker started his run, but I couldn't get this issue because I didn't go the comic store like Wednesday morning when it came out. The NY Times gets word of this and in come all the collectors, but the actual guys reading the comic as a series? Screwed, I guess.

So it;s everybody elses fault?

Seriously, you've got nobody but yourself to blame for not getting a copy on Wednesday.

[USAgent]

However, Shea wondered if a stronger hint couldn't have been given to alert retailers -- considering they're always told issues are "big."
That's exactly what I thought.

Yeah, but what would they have to say in order to get retailers to believe it? If they didn't want to give the details about the story, and retailers are always skeptical because "every issue is big", what could Marvel had said? I think no matter what it would've been dismissed as just more marketing hype. Certainly not given the credence to order 100+ copies to meet this unanticipated huge demand.

[Nate28]

I understand that, but I dont see how any retailer got cheated here, especially from the positive aspects of this article with people buying other stuff.



Well from my LCS, and others i venture too. They feel they got cheated out of makeing money is what it comes down too. They could have ordered 10 times their reg order, met up with demand with walks ins, regulars, sell some on ebay and store some for a few weeks and then really make a profit. When all they had was enough to please their regulars or those few stores where walk ins bought them all up before the regulars could get into the store.

But thats more or less what i saw with this debacle.

[mpdfuzz]

If Marvel had ordered such a large overprint, why couldn't they have doubled everyone's order and suprised them that morning? An issue this big, they could have informed the retailers that the unsold over-order would be returnable, knowing full well retailers would sell out not needing to return anything.

Seems silly to me, that all these overprints were sitting in a wharehouse for a week, when they could have been on the shelves, at no risk to anyone with something this big.

[Boxful]

Everybody... just... calm... down.

Marvel knows what they are doing.
They've got a ton of extra books printed to send out until every last one of you are happily in possesion of it.

Shame on you Wizard for insider trading. That's a crime in other instances.
Ha Ha for you suckers who jumped the wagon and paid the astronomical price for what will eventually be worthless dollar box fodder.

And if you are simply a reader and not the collector - a snazzy second-print issue will suit you just fine. Relax, you'll get to read your beloved book.

Waaaa to those who whine about having to wait an extra week to read their faux death of Captain America. I can think of worse things to deal with.

It's the retailers I feel bad for as the hype will have come and gone and they've missed that golden opportunity (which was one day only) They can reorder all they want but the newbie enticing collectable aspect of this gimmick will be old news. It'll be right back to cover price and all they got to say about it was 'sorry, we're out of stock'.

That's what stinks. Well, the crybaby diapers could use a changing too.

[lfhobbies]

What gets me is that I've been buying Captain America since issue 1 where Brubaker started his run, but I couldn't get this issue because I didn't go the comic store like Wednesday morning when it came out. The NY Times gets word of this and in come all the collectors, but the actual guys reading the comic as a series? Screwed, I guess.


Talk to your store about a pull list - everyone who had Cap on their list got a 25 and even the guys who had no Cap but they had Civil War on their list got Cap if they wanted it and everyone did. pull lists help everyone involved - talk to your LCS about one

[Allen T]

The thing Marvel should have mentioned was this issue was going to be as big as Civil War #2. Remember that was the one that gots NEWS attention. Retailers would know that it would have been something newsworthy and definately groundbreaking but not exactly what. I think they would have been adequately prepared. Instead they got order as much as you did for Civil Wr it is that important. If they mentioned that this would potentially recieve media attention retailers would have been ready.

[Kid Omega]

Foster better relationships with your retailers and your loyalty shall be rewarded... SUCKAS!

[MacGuffin]

I understand that, but I dont see how any retailer got cheated here, especially from the positive aspects of this article with people buying other stuff.
Speaking only for my store, it's no so much the idea that we got cheated (although the Wizard and Midtown situations are a whole other issue), it's more the frustration of a missed opportunity. There are only so many things in this industry that get the sort of media attention that this did and even fewer that drive people into shops. The inability to provide the customer with what they want when they want it is incredibly frustrating and paints the industry in a bad light. Offering even limited returnability on something like this would seem to be the way to go, allowing the publishers and retailers to share in the risk, especially when the publisher knows that there's going to be at least a small amount of mainstream media attention.

That said, many retailers are flexibile enough to roll with a situation like this and point those customers towards other product and take names and phone numbers for when more copies are available.

Was the majority of the past week more good than bad? Absolutely. But it wasn't nearly on the level that it could and should have been.

[Darthphere]

Speaking only for my store, it's no so much the idea that we got cheated (although the Wizard and Midtown situations are a whole other issue), it's more the frustration of a missed opportunity. There are so many things in this industry that get the sort of media attention that this did and even fewer that drive people into shops. The inability to provide the customer with what they want when they want it is incredibly frustrating and paints the industry in a bad light. Offering even limited returnability on something like this would seem to be the way to go, allowing the publishers and retailers to share in the risk, especially when the publisher knows that there's going to be at least a small amount of mainstream media attention.

That said, many retailers are flexibile enough to roll with a situation like this and point those customers towards other product and take names and phone numbers for when more copies are available.

Was the majority of the past week more good than bad? Absolutely. But it wasn't nearly on the level that it could and should have been.

I totally see the point now. Thanks.

[BornToRun]

I saw the advice retailers were given by Marvel before the FOC deadline and it was the same advice they were last given by Marvel over Civil War 2 and the unmasking of Spider-Man. Marvel have become reticent of overhyping to retailers of late, and a number of retailers saw the writing on the wall here.

Aren't you supposed to be dead?

[Brian009]

I'm more disappointed the assassination didn't take place in CW #7. to have the epilogue somewhere else (especially this big an event) and not even solicit it as such is putrid.

And yet I know I'll hunt down a second or third print just to have it as part of the story. I had the Confession on a pull list already, but might drop Fallen Son - just cause it really doesn't mean anything to me anymore.

I didn't know about Wizard, but how'd they get stuff CGC'd that fast?

Cheers,

B

[mike oxbig]

It's not the CGCing I have the issue with as much as selling an issue released the day before for a 10-15x markup AFTER the announcement of the overprint.

I believe the CGC's are advance solicited meaning they aren't in hand yet but I could be worng.

[Tom Daylight]

I'm more disappointed the assassination didn't take place in CW #7. to have the epilogue somewhere else (especially this big an event) and not even solicit it as such is putrid.


It sounds like you haven't actually read the book yet, but I don't think it's spoiling anything to tell you that his death doesn't really have anything to do with Civil War.

[JPGubicza]

I think Wizard is useless these days. News(arama) and price guides are readily available online. Back Issue magazine has more substantial stories and anecdotes about comics that are/were good not the fluff piece of the month from Wizard. What really ticks me off is their total lack of fact checking as seen in last months issue where they relate news that the forthcoming Justice League Unlimited Season 2 DVD was containing the second part of the first season which was released some six months ago. I am officially done buying FHM, oh I mean Wizard...

[Cray_ws]

This event is finest example of the worst this industry has to offer. In one full sweep the 90's era reared its head and we are one step removed from holographic covers. We all know what happen after DC's Death of Superman event. This industry will lose even more interest thanks to all those with shiny greed.

Those that love this medium too much are likely to change their buying habits to trades because they want no part of this sensationalistic event that attracts the worst kind of people. $200 for a 24 page comic that just came out? That's disgusting, its not even original art. Its just printed copies that everyone could've gotten had there been better communication.

It could've been a day of excitement and intrigue, instead it was case of embarrassment and alot eyerolling when non-comic readers came up to me to discuss to talk about the supposed value of "mint" condition of Captain America #25 and how its going for $200 on Ebay. Question I got is "Should I buy a couple copies? Are these going to be worth more money down the road?" My response...."Read the issue if your interested in it, I have no financial advice. These are books...not stocks & bonds."

I hope this teaches publishers & shops a lesson, I hope it changes the industry. I can see more skepticism from fans and insiders. I can see more greed from local comic shops and rightly so.

However I think this event has caused a turning point in the industry, I think it will jumpstart Digital comics on greater scale, and Graphic Novels (trades) will be even more prevailant in bookstores and select (Soccer mom-friendly) shops, this will eventually reduce the greedy tatics that we unfortunately saw with Captain America's death.

[DarkJared]

As a retailer I love the idea of a committee that is elected from the industry to talk to marvel and Dc about these types of events to then pass on impressions of the solicits and hype. They could use something like an alert code from hot to cold (or god help me like the terror alert colours codes) to pass on to the rest of the association.

This can only benefit the industry as a whole by helping to ensure events like this are maximized industry wide to increase the positioning of comics as a mainstream entertainment medium and to increase new readership from these types of exposures.

I hope the group interviewed take that idea and run with it as I'd join in an association of comic retailers.

[tiso_spencer]

That just pisses me off that Wizard was making hand over fist on this crap before hand. I mean that is some shady BS right there. I could understand retailers taking them off the shelf in order to make money. Marvel is to blame for this crap. How is it the walk-in customer's fault for not getting our issue because of this speculator market BS? Hell I even had the issue I wanted and from the shop and home it was missing. Is it my fault that perhaps some over zealous reseller saw my comic stack while I was in another part of the store getting other books and helped him or herself to it?

[Brian009]

It sounds like you haven't actually read the book yet, but I don't think it's spoiling anything to tell you that his death doesn't really have anything to do with Civil War.


it may not have anything to do with CW, and I am looking forward to reading it. Is it accurate to consider it an epilogue? I've heard Confession referred to as a Coda...

Cheers,

B

[Brian009]

As a retailer I love the idea of a committee that is elected from the industry to talk to marvel and Dc about these types of events to then pass on impressions of the solicits and hype. They could use something like an alert code from hot to cold (or god help me like the terror alert colours codes) to pass on to the rest of the association.

This can only benefit the industry as a whole by helping to ensure events like this are maximized industry wide to increase the positioning of comics as a mainstream entertainment medium and to increase new readership from these types of exposures.

I hope the group interviewed take that idea and run with it as I'd join in an association of comic retailers.


www.comicspro.org

[Toneloak]

I just don't think Marvel thought it would this big of a deal. Cap was mostly a B-list character overall as Comic Book characters have gone over the masses the last few years. His death would be seen in the same light as the death of Prof. X. They seem to have wanted to keep it quiet seeing how CW has ended and this was a important side story for one of the main characters. I wouldn't have expected Cap's death to garner much more attention then CW (the hugest hit of 2 years), so they gave the writer's story more importance. Leaked it to the press in hopes to get some extra sells, BOOM!! Cap's death became the biggest event all year.

The press made it big and who's to know what they would jump on. Cap was almost never talked about during most of the press I heard of CW. I'd hear about the IRAQ war stuff and/or analogs for 42 or the different sides. I never heard mention of the intrinsic qualities of Cap/Steve or Ironman/Tony, and either one's death would seem like a footnote or gimmicky until the rest of the world made it news.

I really like that it was news in England. Now, I wonder about France?

[durkadurka]

This event is finest example of the worst this industry has to offer. In one full sweep the 90's era reared its head and we are one step removed from holographic covers. We all know what happen after DC's Death of Superman event. This industry will lose even more interest thanks to all those with shiny greed.

Those that love this medium too much are likely to change their buying habits to trades because they want no part of this sensationalistic event that attracts the worst kind of people. $200 for a 24 page comic that just came out? That's disgusting, its not even original art. Its just printed copies that everyone could've gotten had there been better communication.

It could've been a day of excitement and intrigue, instead it was case of embarrassment and alot eyerolling when non-comic readers came up to me to discuss to talk about the supposed value of "mint" condition of Captain America #25 and how its going for $200 on Ebay. Question I got is "Should I buy a couple copies? Are these going to be worth more money down the road?" My response...."Read the issue if your interested in it, I have no financial advice. These are books...not stocks & bonds."

I hope this teaches publishers & shops a lesson, I hope it changes the industry. I can see more skepticism from fans and insiders. I can see more greed from local comic shops and rightly so.

However I think this event has caused a turning point in the industry, I think it will jumpstart Digital comics on greater scale, and Graphic Novels (trades) will be even more prevailant in bookstores and select (Soccer mom-friendly) shops, this will eventually reduce the greedy tatics that we unfortunately saw with Captain America's death.

I'm actually completely lost on a lot of what you're saying. Firstly, greed on whose part? It couldn't be marvel's, because they could have made a LOT more money had they leaked the information ahead of time. I personally have no intention of buying the trades because of what just happened, because i really don't think it was that big a deal. Just blown a bit out of proportion.
If somebody wants to pay $200 for 24 pages of copied art, let them. If they've got that kind of money to waste, let them go right ahead. Why get annoyed with it when it happens with every other thing there is? Regardless of why they bought it, it was still a good comic. You can't blame the industry for having people buy a comic just to sell it again. That's like blaming sony for other people making a profit by selling PS3s at exhorbitant amounts. Well, bad example, but still, Marvel isn't going to see a dime from resold comics. How was this about the industry itself in any way? Marvel picked a direction and went with it, and i feel they chose the path that did right by comic fans instead of just trying to make more money.

And finally, what's wrong with holographic covers? They're shiny and you can kind of see yourself in them.

[Corrupteddragon]

Well to say that EVERY retailer didnt realize that the issue was going to be big and not order enough is wrong. I shop at a relatively small store, where if you dont get there on wednesday, good luck on getting some issues of most new releases. But this wednesday they had a metric ass ton of CA25. The last issues ive seen them stock that big were all the CW issues and CW-the return. So, obviously some stores took it seriously that the issue was going to be big, and coming off of CW, how could it not be?

[pop monkey]

I was one of the retailers taken completely by surprise by this. We had no idea it was coming until the phone started to ring off the hook while I was still pulling subscriber files before we even opened! I say "taken completely by surprise", but I guess if I had paid attention to the hype and solicits, I would have had some idea of what was coming. The problem is, I have become numb to such hyping in Marvel's solicitations to the point where it rolls right off my back. I tend to base our store's orders more on creators involved, sales history, event tie-ins.. you know, the sensible factors.

On one hand, it was nice to have something come along that was so unexpected and un-leaked -- on the other hand, we were totally unprepared for the demand that would rush over us like a tidal wave. I might have ordered more copies (I did order a few more based on the 50/50 cover split), if this hadn't come on the tail end of CIVIL WAR when our customers interest in all things CW is starting to cool down greatly. Now, this cooling may have just taken an abrupt about-face, thanks to this event and the attention it's getting. I'm grateful that there's more copies coming (hopefully first print -- we did get our back order in by the arbitrary "deadline").

It's tough to say how this all would have ended up had retailers known full well what was coming before hand -- those poor suckers who paid $150 for both covers on ebay might have saved some money, at least.

[tiso_spencer]

I'm actually completely lost on a lot of what you're saying. Firstly, greed on whose part? It couldn't be marvel's, because they could have made a LOT more money had they leaked the information ahead of time. I personally have no intention of buying the trades because of what just happened, because i really don't think it was that big a deal. Just blown a bit out of proportion.
If somebody wants to pay $200 for 24 pages of copied art, let them. If they've got that kind of money to waste, let them go right ahead. Why get annoyed with it when it happens with every other thing there is? Regardless of why they bought it, it was still a good comic. You can't blame the industry for having people buy a comic just to sell it again. That's like blaming sony for other people making a profit by selling PS3s at exhorbitant amounts. Well, bad example, but still, Marvel isn't going to see a dime from resold comics. How was this about the industry itself in any way? Marvel picked a direction and went with it, and i feel they chose the path that did right by comic fans instead of just trying to make more money.

And finally, what's wrong with holographic covers? They're shiny and you can kind of see yourself in them.

You want to know why that is a problem? It is because of the jerk off buyers who bought the damn book because it was a goddamn special issue so they can re-sell it as a goddamn investment, much like how 90% of the PS3 buyers waiting in line when it first came out did not buy the system to enjoy but as an investment. That is not fair for the actual comic book readers, especially those who could not even buy it, LET ALONE READ IT because pricks saw the big news on Yahoo or whatever and ran to a LCS and bought like 3-5 sets of each cover. My only prize in all of this is that when the overprints and 2nd printings come in that the issue everyone paid $100+ for will be in the dollar bin a few months down the line.

[Tom Daylight]

it may not have anything to do with CW, and I am looking forward to reading it. Is it accurate to consider it an epilogue? I've heard Confession referred to as a Coda...


To be honest, while it touches on the end of the Civil War, I would say that it's more accurate to describe this as its own thing - the majority of the cast is from the regular Captain America title, the bulk of the story continues threads from previous issues of the title; I don't feel like it ties up any lingering story threads out of Civil War. I wouldn't have stuck "Civil War: Epilogue" on the front cover; "Aftermath" might have been more appropriate. Although to be honest I really don't think this book actually needs the benefit of being a Civil War tie-in so that it can sell!! :)

[johnturned51]

What gets me is that I've been buying Captain America since issue 1 where Brubaker started his run, but I couldn't get this issue because I didn't go the comic store like Wednesday morning when it came out. The NY Times gets word of this and in come all the collectors, but the actual guys reading the comic as a series? Screwed, I guess.


Maybe you should have a pull box? this is only your own fault. I've never heard of a store that didn't offer some kind of pull service.

[durkadurka]

You want to know why that is a problem? It is because of the jerk off buyers who bought the damn book because it was a goddamn special issue so they can re-sell it as a goddamn investment, much like how 90% of the PS3 buyers waiting in line when it first came out did not buy the system to enjoy but as an investment. That is not fair for the actual comic book readers, especially those who could not even buy it, LET ALONE READ IT because pricks saw the big news on Yahoo or whatever and ran to a LCS and bought like 3-5 sets of each cover. My only prize in all of this is that when the overprints and 2nd printings come in that the issue everyone paid $100+ for will be in the dollar bin a few months down the line.
Ok, so there will be trades and reprints and whatever, so what is the problem? Yah, the people who actually want to read it can't for, what, a week? Big deal! If you want to read it that bad, read it in a week! What's the problem??? Unless you have it on a pull list, don't try to be all high and mighty. This is a consumer society. If somebody gets to it first, no matter what they want it for, they deserve it (unless they cut your brakes or something to get it). But it seems like you're just venting, even though you know you can just get the reprint.

[khuxford]

Maybe you should have a pull box? this is only your own fault. I've never heard of a store that didn't offer some kind of pull service.

As asinine as it might sound, there are some that don't...so, in the future, you might not want to jump to the conclusion that it is the reader's fault for not having a pull list with the retailer. :D

[Tom Daylight]

Yeah, as much as I agree with what's being said, I know that not all retailers having standing order systems. And for that matter, I've had experiences with a comic shop wherein they ran out of copies of something before they started pulling it. (My solution there was to switch to another shop almost literally across the street that separated the orders out first, but I know some wouldn't have that kind of luxury.)

[lfhobbies]

Speaking only for my store, it's no so much the idea that we got cheated (although the Wizard and Midtown situations are a whole other issue), it's more the frustration of a missed opportunity. There are only so many things in this industry that get the sort of media attention that this did and even fewer that drive people into shops. The inability to provide the customer with what they want when they want it is incredibly frustrating and paints the industry in a bad light. Offering even limited returnability on something like this would seem to be the way to go, allowing the publishers and retailers to share in the risk, especially when the publisher knows that there's going to be at least a small amount of mainstream media attention.

That said, many retailers are flexibile enough to roll with a situation like this and point those customers towards other product and take names and phone numbers for when more copies are available.

Was the majority of the past week more good than bad? Absolutely. But it wasn't nearly on the level that it could and should have been.

I agree - Marvel knew this would be huge - bigger than anything they have stated as 'big' before this - I would have been one happy retailer if they had given us a 50% overship that could have been returned later (but I can't imagine anyone returning them)

That would have fostered a great relationship between Marvel/Diamond and the retailers

[khuxford]

Yeah, but what would they have to say in order to get retailers to believe it? If they didn't want to give the details about the story, and retailers are always skeptical because "every issue is big", what could Marvel had said? I think no matter what it would've been dismissed as just more marketing hype. Certainly not given the credence to order 100+ copies to meet this unanticipated huge demand.

If they had stressed that the issue was going to receive press coverage comparable to Civil War #2, they could have accomplished much more than they did with the vague hints they chose to run with. It wouldn't have given anything away. If you've read that answer 20 other times, I apologize...but people keep making the same statement that doesn't take into account how EASY it would have been to give a much better indicator to retailers without spoiling the contents or their NY Daily News exclusive.

Everybody... just... calm... down.

Marvel knows what they are doing.
They've got a ton of extra books printed to send out until every last one of you are happily in possesion of it.

And if you are simply a reader and not the collector - a snazzy second-print issue will suit you just fine. Relax, you'll get to read your beloved book.

Waaaa to those who whine about having to wait an extra week to read their faux death of Captain America. I can think of worse things to deal with.

It's the retailers I feel bad for as the hype will have come and gone and they've missed that golden opportunity (which was one day only) They can reorder all they want but the newbie enticing collectable aspect of this gimmick will be old news. It'll be right back to cover price and all they got to say about it was 'sorry, we're out of stock'.

That's what stinks. Well, the crybaby diapers could use a changing too.

You're really myopic in your view here. You see all the increased demand as ONLY being about speculation on the part of new customers. That just isn't the case. There will be some new potential readers and lapsed readers ready to give the medium another chance. But those LONG TERM SALES are lost due to the way this event was handled by people BEYOND the retailers.

So...everyone HERE who wanted a copy will be able to get one. Everyone who doesn't even know where HERE is, but wanted a copy to read, might not. Someone who wanted to read it badly enough to pay $40 for it, only for it to turn out to be a $1 comic tomorrow, will be discouraged from coming back to the hobby because they will view it as being screwed over by Marvel or the direct market, not Bob Jones, speculator, who actually sold the issue (or an isolated retailer...like...I don't know...WIZARD UNIVERSE, who isn't necessarily indicative of the whole DM).

[prolix]

[QUOTE=durkadurka]Consider this: had Marvel revealed that Cap would be dying months in advance, either by a retailer leaking it or just Marvel leaking it themselves, it really would have detracted from the feel of the still ongoing Civil War.

Well said. I have no idea how to solve the problem (I didn't get a copy) but I still feel they did the right thing by keeping a lid on it.

[skl183]

anyone discover the magic bullet?

over analysis of the analysis of Cap's life in general.

[kallup]

I blame my comic shop as much as I blame Marvel, if not more. Not for not ordering enough copies, but for refusing to reserve copies for all their regular customers, while annoying idiot speculators were allowed to talk out with 5-10 copies each.

So 6 days later, I still have not read this book (because Im in school and my shop sold out in 2 hours) and others who dont give a crap about the character are trying to make money on Ebay.

Still, even on re-order they are refusing to hold ONE copy for me. So now I need to cut out of school for an hour just to ensure I can actually read this book when the re-orders come in.

FIND ANOTHER SHOP!!!!

[rblythepitt]

I'll make this simple:

Scumbags: Wizard Magazine (those who took advantage of the situation)
Douchebags: Marvel Comics brass and yes-man Joe Q
Fools: Those that bought the issue on E-Bay without playing the waiting game. Honestly, does anyone not know anything about second, third, etc., printing by now?
Heroes: Those that either already picked up Captain America and enjoyed the issue or actually picked up the issue, read it, liked what they read and will start making another trip to the comic-book shop to find more great books to READ. God bless these people.

[Not From Around]

What's ironic is that Marvel, in its zeal to avoid spoiling, failed to give adequate information to retailers, and yet their mainstream media release succeeded in spoiling it for many readers anyway. :rolleyes:

[Eoghann]

Retailers DID order "some extra copies". They were already ordering more than double what Captain America normally sells. They just weren't ordering "hey...this is going to be covered in the NY Daily News as an exclusive" numbers, let alone "hey...CNN, Yahoo, and a ton of other outlets will be piggybacking on the story" type numbers.

The problem with that line of thinking is that Marvel had no way of knowing that the story would get picked up the way it did. If someone famous had died last week, the Captain America story would have been bumped almost entirely off the news.

So if Marvel went all out and encouraged retailers to buy huge quantities of this issue and then hadn't got the publicity they ended up with... everyone would have been bitching that they overhyped it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Some from of return policy on the issue would have helped certainly, but people are acting like this was a terrible thing. It wasn't it was still a success.

[khuxford]

The problem with that line of thinking is that Marvel had no way of knowing that the story would get picked up the way it did. If someone famous had died last week, the Captain America story would have been bumped almost entirely off the news.

So if Marvel went all out and encouraged retailers to buy huge quantities of this issue and then hadn't got the publicity they ended up with... everyone would have been bitching that they overhyped it. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Some from of return policy on the issue would have helped certainly, but people are acting like this was a terrible thing. It wasn't it was still a success.

Bro...they KNEW they had an exclusive in the NY Daily News. It was pre-arranged. They knew that much. Did they know it would take on a life of its own? No. But if they had shared anything about the level of coverage they DID know they were going to get, orders would have been up.

[kallup]

Yje solicitation should habe read:

The aftermath of Civil War for Captain America!
Cap in chains!
Falcon takes to the skies...Sharon Carter in a gunfight...Winter Soldier vs Crossbones!
Dr Faustaus' plans reach fruition!
Manipulation by Nick Fury and the Red Skull!
Guest starring some of Cap's secret Avengers...as one person from that group meets his/her death!
Do not miss this milestone issue that will be the subject of major media attention!

You'd have order hints for Fury fans and Falcon fans, clear warning that it could be a major mainstream media event, ties to Civil War and the milestone feature.
Who'd believe Cap dies while in chains, "unable" to fight back?
And you could draw more new reader among the S&M community with the Cap in chains line.

[Eoghann]

Bro...they KNEW they had an exclusive in the NY Daily News. It was pre-arranged. They knew that much. Did they know it would take on a life of its own? No. But if they had shared anything about the level of coverage they DID know they were going to get, orders would have been up.

You think that exclusive wouldn't have been bumped if a big enough news story broke? My limited experience of news media is they'll pretty much bump any story if they see something that think will grab a bigger audience.

[0bsessions]

As asinine as it might sound, there are some that don't...so, in the future, you might not want to jump to the conclusion that it is the reader's fault for not having a pull list with the retailer. :D

Bluntly speaking: if that's the case, the reader should be accepting some fault for going to a crappy retailer. Pull lists for regulars are more common than not and any retailer that isn't willing to offer their customers that added security doesn't deserve to be in business. There's enough options out there as far as internet ordering and subscriptions where if you read a series regularly, it is absolutely and entirely no one's fault but your own if you can't get it when it hits the shelves.

The simple fact of the matter is that it was a catch 22 situation for Marvel. There was no concievable way that the retailers could have won in this situation and Marvel did the one thing that any smart corporation would do: protect themselves and the bottom line.

Marvel kept the death a secret until it was too late for retailers to do anything about it other than reorder for the next week. No matter what they try to say without spoiling what would happen, there's going to be a lot of retailers that take it with a big grain of salt. If they'd made the orders completely returnable, they would've run a huge risk if the story didn't hit huge. There was no guaruntee that this would be as big as it was, and everything had to line up perfectly. If something went wrong, Marvel would have been screwed.

On the other hand, had they leaked spoilers, or even heavy hints it wouldn't have gotten nearly the press it did and we would have an entirely different missed opportunity.

If we go with the latter option, then everyone loses. Cap sells MAYBE double what it normally does and it's forgotten in a day.

With the former situation, at least Marvel's got a huge profit and we have a lot more potential for new readers involved.

Either situation is going to have lots of missed opportunities, but if you break down all the possibilities, what Marvel did is really not just the smartest option, but really the only sensible one.

[Eoghann]

As a retailer I love the idea of a committee that is elected from the industry to talk to marvel and Dc about these types of events to then pass on impressions of the solicits and hype. They could use something like an alert code from hot to cold (or god help me like the terror alert colours codes) to pass on to the rest of the association.

To my mind the key thing here is it's something the independent stores have to organize and do for themselves, not wait for DC and Marvel to ask them to do it.

Why did Wizard seem to come out of this better? Possibly (I'm speculating) because they're seen to have more influence than any independent store. There's a lot to be said for combining knowledge, promotion and buying power so that you can't simply be ignored.

[0bsessions]

And that's why you start the solicitation with A year in the making, this is where it happens! The culmination of the Civil War is here! Since CW came down to Cap vs Iron Man, the "culmination of the Civil War" could only appear in one of the two titles. Who dies? Hell, it could be Mary Jane, as she and Aunt May are evicted from Avengers HQ. The rumors of her death have been swirling since before CW started.

Well, considering that Aunt May and MJ were in the sights of a sniper at the end of an issue of Amazing Spider-Man and Aunt May has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH CAP'S TITLE then I have to find that entire premise laughable.

[SeanMurphy]

I just don't think there is anyway Marvel could have done this right:
- If they had given any clues to retailers, you can bet people would be accusing Joe Q of selling out fans to make a buck. Heck, people are accusing him of doing that when they are making LESS money than they would have.
- What panel of experts would have recommended increasing orders significantly -- "Triple your order -- this is going to be 'Superboy biting it in Infinite Crisis' big." At best they would have said "buy it at Civil War #2 levels", which according to Rich Johnson is what Marvel said.
- If Marvel had kept it small, had not done any press work, we'd be hearing people complaining about how an icon died, Marvel didn't do any publicity, and how can we keep the industry alive without new interest.

It was a perfect storm... a slow news days combined with the death of a character a lot of people vaguely know. I feel bad for regular buyers who didn't get a copy of the issue and have to wait a week or buy it from an internet shop (one that is not price gouging like Wizard).

But I do take comfort from the fact that most of the people paying outlandish prices on EBay are not regulars in my LCS who didn't get a copy, as they know there are more on the way. I liked seeing some new faces in my LCS, picking up other things when Cap sold out. And personally seeing the death of a comic book character covered the same way any other famous person's death might be.... well, it surprised me. And 35 years of reading these books and years of following sites like this one, that is tough to do.

[DarkJared]

Yeah, but what would they have to say in order to get retailers to believe it? If they didn't want to give the details about the story, and retailers are always skeptical because "every issue is big", what could Marvel had said? I think no matter what it would've been dismissed as just more marketing hype. Certainly not given the credence to order 100+ copies to meet this unanticipated huge demand.

Here's what the solicit should have said because it would be entirely expected:

"Captain America #25 - not just another anniversary issue - this one will have to be seen to be believed! The fate of Steve Rogers is decided here as the Red Skull make shis move! Retailers are strongly advised to order massive numbers of this issue as the sales WILL bring in speculators, collectors, the news crews, and anyone else who hears about this century making comic book to buy stacks of multiple copies. This issue will be the single most important event in the life of Steve Rogers since his creation in 1941."

Now I would have read that and thought hmm... he's either crippled, killed or retires in some kind of permanent manner that it will be in the news. Sounds serious! Maybe I better order more than just a normal increase for special events.

Really - how could Marvel kill off one of their oldest characters and not know the media would react like they did. Even if it was a busy news day it would have gotten airtime just as Superman #75 did. You could bank on it.

Now here's my sarcastic solicit:

"Captain America #25 - Massive! Retailers are advised to order huge as everyone and their pet monkey will want 20-30 copies of each cover. Fox news will cover this issue like it was involving a real actual American soldier and comedy shows will be dipping into the contents of this issue for weeks! You may have gotten burned by ordering tons of Civil War which had such an anti-climactic ending and poor delivery schedule that you'll be donating copies to the local paper mache club for years but this one is the real deal - we mean it! Reallly! This is the way Civil War #7 should have ended but didn't... we're really sorry about that but we know in our heart of hearts that your giant bags of money will make us feel better about it in the long run."

I'll reiterate my strong support for and desire for a cabal of top comic retailers that get the inside scoop and pass on word to the rest of us!

[ME5]

Hello.

To khuxford: I do believe that Marvel told the retailers that Cap #25 would be on par with CW #2. RichJohnston did point that out, and I have not heard any retailer dispute that seeming fact. Considering the hype and news media that surrounded CW#2, that would have been a strong indicator.

I know that many believe Marvel could have handled this differently, but let's not forget that they did handle it well enough for many shops to get record sales, new walk-in customers, and tons of free publicity due to this event. No matter what a retailer wants to say, this media stunt was a huge success. Granted, it might have been able to be bigger, but it seems kind if petulant to be complaining about the fact that sales were only double, rather than quadruple what they normally would have been. Marvel went out of their way to get media coverage for Cap #25, made retailers a sheepload of cash, and still has to be abused for doing so??? Geeze, man. Could it have been handled better? Yes. However, it should not be having such a negative backlash from the few retailers who are going nuts about the whole thing. Don't people ever just say "thanks" for an unexpected and successful sales stunt, anymore?

Be Well...:)

[ME5]

Hello.

To KenButler3 and tiso_spencer: You really don't have any reason to attack or blame Marvel. You will be able to get the book at your LCS on Wednesday, or you can go to Midtown comics online and order a first printing right now for less than cover. Just because the retailer at your LCS was unwilling to keep a copy for his regulars, or is too stupid to have a pull list, that is not Marvel's fault., You both simply have poor retailers and should really consider switching to a responsible retailer willing to put customer service at the top of his priority list.

Good luck getting the comic.

Be Well...:)

[khuxford]

You think that exclusive wouldn't have been bumped if a big enough news story broke? My limited experience of news media is they'll pretty much bump any story if they see something that think will grab a bigger audience.

Where it was in the paper would have been bumped, but it would have appeared somewhere in the paper. It got page 3.

[MacGuffin]

Hello.

To khuxford: I do believe that Marvel told the retailers that Cap #25 would be on par with CW #2. RichJohnston did point that out, and I have not heard any retailer dispute that seeming fact. Considering the hype and news media that surrounded CW#2, that would have been a strong indicator.

Just to make this clear, a respected Marvel rep indicated on a retailer forum that retailers were underordering Cap #25 compared to the demand that Marvel was anticipating. The last time such a statement was made there, it was regarding CW#2. The time before that it was about Incredible Hulk #92. He was right about all 3, although to very different degrees.

[Bandoogiemanz]

Looks like a overall pretty good situation to me. You got these feebayers and such come in buy a whole mess of copies. That's cha-ching. Then you have people who came in and bought the issue b/c of the press, who then may have bought other things as well. That's cha-ching. Then you have the hardcore comic fans who don't buy Cap. but bought this issue. That's cha-ching. And you still have the hardcore, casual, and newbies(I'm included in this list) who will come back next week b/c they couldn't get their hands on an issue this week. If I was a retalier, I'd have written down the name of every single customer who came in looking for that issue and couldn't get it, and have one waiting for them next week. My friends, now that equals cha-ching.

[JLAJRC]

Here's what the solicit should have said because it would be entirely expected:

"Captain America #25 - not just another anniversary issue - this one will have to be seen to be believed! The fate of Steve Rogers is decided here as the Red Skull make shis move! Retailers are strongly advised to order massive numbers of this issue as the sales WILL bring in speculators, collectors, the news crews, and anyone else who hears about this century making comic book to buy stacks of multiple copies. This issue will be the single most important event in the life of Steve Rogers since his creation in 1941."

Now I would have read that and thought hmm... he's either crippled, killed or retires in some kind of permanent manner that it will be in the news. Sounds serious! Maybe I better order more than just a normal increase for special events.

Really - how could Marvel kill off one of their oldest characters and not know the media would react like they did. Even if it was a busy news day it would have gotten airtime just as Superman #75 did. You could bank on it.

!

That's actually a pretty good solicitation there. But would retailor's pay extra attention to it? They seem to be a skeptical bunch, and would probably just see it as more hype. You may have to pretty much say "Cap dies here." to get the orders necessary to fill demand.

[Sky Furnace]

yeah, that does sound pretty $hitty of them...

'Scruples' is a game some people play at lunch. It's always disheartening when you see an alleged fan-service magazine go gouging for dinero. Crap like that is part of what crashed the industry last time.

:rolleyes:

M.E.

[Alan Coil]

.
.
.
QUOTES:
"We attempted to order more. While generally increases that ship with initial [orders] are accepted and processed up to a few days before shipment, this book has been 'going to backorder' (which effectively means 'sold out at Marvel') for close to two weeks," said Stock of Librarie Astro. "It would appear that Marvel put a block on increase activity. What they could have done was notify us that such was the case, instead they created a sort of artificial shortage situation. I have no idea why they did this. Unless I'm mistaken they haven't blocked increase activity after the FOC since Bill Jemas left, but they chose to surprise us."

AND:
"Barger of Wonderworld Comics also questioned whether one ebay seller might have been given information that other retailers were not, as Wizard Universe, which is owned by the same company as Wizard Magazine..."

AND:
"Wizard seems to be the biggest offender in this situation and I'm sure this won't be the last time an event like this has them at the center of it," he said. "As they've now revealed their upcoming Cap cover on the next Wizard issue featuring 18 pages of Captain America articles, it's obvious they knew all about this well in advance. As Wizard certainly gets early insider information, it's a complete conflict of interest that they're carrying this comic in such incredibly deep levels and selling them for such insane amounts"
=============================
Well, it certainly would seem to someone looking at this with a critical eye that Wizard and Marvel were in bed together on this one. No re-orders available for the comics shops, but thousands available from Wizard at inflated prices.

Crap like this could spell the end of the industry.
.
.
.

[Alan Coil]

What gets me is that I've been buying Captain America since issue 1 where Brubaker started his run, but I couldn't get this issue because I didn't go the comic store like Wednesday morning when it came out. The NY Times gets word of this and in come all the collectors, but the actual guys reading the comic as a series? Screwed, I guess.

Ah, but...

Maybe Marvel won't need your dollars what with all the NEW customers they are creating with this stunt.

Oh, wait, even the 'new' customers can't get it.

[Apocrypha]

What gets me is that I've been buying Captain America since issue 1 where Brubaker started his run, but I couldn't get this issue because I didn't go the comic store like Wednesday morning when it came out. The NY Times gets word of this and in come all the collectors, but the actual guys reading the comic as a series? Screwed, I guess.

That's what comic accounts are for.

[Alan Coil]

How about this - "A year in the making, this is where it happens! The culmination of the Civil War is here! Someone dies, and the Marvel Universe will never be the same"

A year in the making! The culmination of XXXX is here! Someone dies, and the XXXX XXXX will never be the same.

There. A one-size-fits-all for all publishers for the future.

:p

[Alan Coil]

Same here. Sounds like a real dick move on Wizard's part.

AMEN.................

[Alan Coil]

I feel it's a non-issue to begin with.

There's a huge second shipment going out in two days (With a second printing allegedly on the way for the end of the month) and looking at MSN.com right now, Captain America is still a popular search topic. Every regular buyer who wants the issue still has a chance to get a first run issue and prospective new readers are still interested.

Almost a week later, and I've still got people asking me about it (Everyone I maintain regular aquaintance with knows I read comics). It looks to me that it's a matter of low loss, high gain in this situation and most of the retailers that are complaining either can't come up with a real better solution or are just whining for the sake of whining.

Dude, do you work for Marvel?

[Alan Coil]

I blame my comic shop as much as I blame Marvel, if not more. Not for not ordering enough copies, but for refusing to reserve copies for all their regular customers, while annoying idiot speculators were allowed to talk out with 5-10 copies each.

So 6 days later, I still have not read this book (because Im in school and my shop sold out in 2 hours) and others who dont give a crap about the character are trying to make money on Ebay.

Still, even on re-order they are refusing to hold ONE copy for me. So now I need to cut out of school for an hour just to ensure I can actually read this book when the re-orders come in.

Sounds like it is time for a new comcis shop.

I think it is important to support your local comic book dealer, but if he can't or won't provide service, replace him or her.

[erudite]

wheres is wizard in all of this? why wasn't wizard or a rep contacted or quoted in this story? i'm eager to hear their defense on this... is that a followup article? or is this softball journalism? Rich J at least asks for comment from all parties involved.

and on the subject of cgc? how did they get that many 9.8's cgc'd? if you submit x amount of books to cgc how many of them, by percentile get a 9.8? doesnt it mean there should be a number of 9.6/9.0's around as well? where are they? or does CGC just say to wizard heres 100 9.8's in exchange for booth space at WWLA?

seems theres an article here too...

[Alan Coil]

Everybody... just... calm... down.

Marvel knows what they are doing.
They've got a ton of extra books printed to send out until every last one of you are happily in possesion of it.

Shame on you Wizard for insider trading. That's a crime in other instances.
Ha Ha for you suckers who jumped the wagon and paid the astronomical price for what will eventually be worthless dollar box fodder.

And if you are simply a reader and not the collector - a snazzy second-print issue will suit you just fine. Relax, you'll get to read your beloved book.

Waaaa to those who whine about having to wait an extra week to read their faux death of Captain America. I can think of worse things to deal with.

It's the retailers I feel bad for as the hype will have come and gone and they've missed that golden opportunity (which was one day only) They can reorder all they want but the newbie enticing collectable aspect of this gimmick will be old news. It'll be right back to cover price and all they got to say about it was 'sorry, we're out of stock'.

That's what stinks. Well, the crybaby diapers could use a changing too.

WHAT A SAD, SAD POST.

And shame on you for posting it.

[Alan Coil]

Foster better relationships with your retailers and your loyalty shall be rewarded... SUCKAS!

Not really true.

I helped a local dealer many times at some smaller comics conventions.
Helped him when he couldn't work because of injury.
Helped him put out new comics on delivery day.
Was a faithful customer for over 5 years.
Placed a special order, asked about it every week after it was due, then it came in and he sold it to another customer.

So, not really true.

[mike oxbig]

wheres is wizard in all of this? why wasn't wizard or a rep contacted or quoted in this story? i'm eager to hear their defense on this... is that a followup article? or is this softball journalism? Rich J at least asks for comment from all parties involved.

Here's the closest thing you'll get to an official statement posted here:

http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=104370

Mike, first off I'm impressed at how much time you spent researching this and posting and reposting. Since I'm a WIZARD employee I can tell you that #1 we did not horde books, we got smart once we saw what they were going for on ebay and raised our prices? Is WIZARD supposed to loose money and not compete the way everyone else is?

#2 why does any of this bother you? I would understand if you couldn't get a copy of the book and WIZARD was the only place left on earth to get it, but clearly thats not the case

I understand people like to pick on WIZARD but atleast the ire should be justified and shared with all the other shops that were selling this at a premium yesterday.

Basically FU we'll do what we want. They fail to see the difference between themselves and the average comic shop.

[Alan Coil]

Speaking only for my store... it's more the frustration of a missed opportunity. There are only so many things in this industry that get the sort of media attention that this did and even fewer that drive people into shops. The inability to provide the customer with what they want when they want it is incredibly frustrating and paints the industry in a bad light.


And there is the gist of the situation. Comics sales are up from years ago, but imagine how much they could be up. An increase of only 10% might be enough to ensure long term viability for many comics shops. That won't happen if too many people get angry about this week's situation.

[papafatass]

Who gives a d@#n about this issue. YOU NOW CAP WILL NOT STAY DEAD. Come on people grow up.

[mike oxbig]

I do, everything that's sprung up around it is interesting and ya know you're on a comic book site right?

[Alan Coil]

I'm more disappointed the assassination didn't take place in CW #7. to have the epilogue somewhere else (especially this big an event) and not even solicit it as such is putrid.

And yet I know I'll hunt down a second or third print just to have it as part of the story. I had the Confession on a pull list already, but might drop Fallen Son - just cause it really doesn't mean anything to me anymore.

I didn't know about Wizard, but how'd they get stuff CGC'd that fast?

Cheers,

B

The assassination SHOULD have taken place in Civil War.

The books are printed about 10-12 days in advance, I think. That is how the preview copied get to the LCS a week ahead of time. Wizard had plenty of time to sort through and find the best copies to CGC. They also would have enough time to read the story and scoop up all the overprint, too, if they were prone to do so.
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And just how is it that there are suddenly 65,000 copies available for reorders? Are they really first prints? Or are they second prints being passed of as first prints? Everybody know Marvel doesn't overprint by 60%.

[Alan Coil]

This event is finest example of the worst this industry has to offer. In one full sweep the 90's era reared its head and we are one step removed from holographic covers. We all know what happen after DC's Death of Superman event. This industry will lose even more interest thanks to all those with shiny greed.

Those that love this medium too much are likely to change their buying habits to trades because they want no part of this sensationalistic event that attracts the worst kind of people. $200 for a 24 page comic that just came out? That's disgusting, its not even original art. Its just printed copies that everyone could've gotten had there been better communication.

It could've been a day of excitement and intrigue, instead it was case of embarrassment and alot eyerolling when non-comic readers came up to me to discuss to talk about the supposed value of "mint" condition of Captain America #25 and how its going for $200 on Ebay. Question I got is "Should I buy a couple copies? Are these going to be worth more money down the road?" My response...."Read the issue if your interested in it, I have no financial advice. These are books...not stocks & bonds."

I hope this teaches publishers & shops a lesson, I hope it changes the industry. I can see more skepticism from fans and insiders. I can see more greed from local comic shops and rightly so.

However I think this event has caused a turning point in the industry, I think it will jumpstart Digital comics on greater scale, and Graphic Novels (trades) will be e