CHRIS YOST ON NEW X-MEN & MAGIK'S RETURN [Archive]

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MattBrady

03-12-2007, 01:53 PM

<a href="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/newxmen/Magik/NEWX037_11_72.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/newxmen/Magik/NEWX037_11_72_t.jpg" border="0" align="right"></a> by Benjamin Ong Pang Kean

Young mutants like Surge, Hellion, Rockslide and Mercury might not be familiar to “old school” X-fans but they and members of the New X-Men have been through a lot like their predecessors from X-Men and the original New Mutants.

Launched in 2003 as part of the now-defunct Marvel Tsunami (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=917) line, the new New Mutants (http://www.newsarama.com/NewMutans.htm) series was written by the husband and wife writing team of Nunzio DeFilippis and Christina Weir.

Later “Reloaded” (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=10042) as part of the X-Men Reload makeover event, the series was then retitled New X-Men: Academy X.

In 2005, M-Day caused millions of mutants from around the world depowered. And with new co-writers Craig Kyle and Chris Yost (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=38438) on board, the junior team of X-Men witnessed first-hand the reality of living in world that really fears and hates them when they faced off against the anti-mutant religious zealot Reverend William Stryker to the advanced Sentinel Nimrod, and saw their numbers shrunk even further as many more mutants and depowered mutants were killed off, including well-liked characters Wallflower aka Laurie Collins and Icarus aka Jay Guthrie.

New X-Men will be a part of the next big X-event that also involves titles like Uncanny X-Men, X-Men, and X-Factor. But before the surviving members are thrust into the next round of mayhem, will they be able to survive “The Quest for Magik,” an event in itself that brings back a familiar fan-favorite character back into the Marvel Universe? And with Magik (the House of M version, by the way) entering the scene, will Belasco be far away?

“The Quest for Magik” kicks off with a special prelude tale co-illustrated by Skottie Young and Pride of Baghdad’s Niko Henrichon in April’s New X-Men #37.

Newsarama.com spoke with one half of the co-writing team, Chris Yost on all things New X-Men.

Newsarama: Looking back for a moment, did you guys have a say in who stays, who dies, and who changes? Or did the Powers That Be dictate the fates of the New X-Men?

Chris Yost: There are 25 students left, not counting Quentin Quire, and sometimes it feels like about 15 too many. From before we took over the book, we had a list going of who we wanted to keep, and who was going to go, one way or another.

A few depowerings were suggestions that came down from the X-Office, most notably Danielle Moonstar. Wind Dancer was another one that had to be decided early, as she appeared mentioned as about to be depowered in the House of M mini itself. But they did run it by us, if I recall correctly.

Things change, from concept to execution. In our initial pitch, it was Sofia – not Laurie – that died from a sniper’s bullet.

NRAMA: It’s obvious that there are still fans and loyalists of original series writers, Nunzio DeFilippis and Christina Weir, and some of them were not happy with the way you guys “got rid of” some of the original members, and the changes done to the others. Okay, we all know that the X-Men is all about change and evolution but in your opinion, why did you think these changes had to be done, especially in the aftermath of House of M?

CY: The name of the event was “Decimation.” If you’re not going to go all the way, then what’s the point? It was the single most significant event in the history of mutantkind, nearly the eradication of the species. We just took what would be the next logical step for anyone who hated mutants – take out the survivors and finish the job.

Every single death is meaningful now. When Cassandra Nova wiped out 16 million plus mutants on Genosha, well, so what? There’s apparently millions left. When you take down one single mutant now, it’s one step closer to extinction.

Although from a statistical standpoint, I think Academy X is having a better time of it than Generation X. I’ll own up to it, despite owning every issue of Generation X, I totally forgot about them when we wrote the mass eulogy in issue #32.

NRAMA: Did you hope to bring in and attract the old school X-fans as well as new fans who enjoyed the X-Men Evolution animated series? After all, X-23 was first introduced in the series. Or did you set out to appeal to the (then) existing fan base who had been sticking with the characters since N&C introduced them in 2003?

CY: We set out to appeal to, and are still shooting for, each and every X-fan on the planet. Craig and I grew up on the classic Claremont run of Uncanny and New Mutants. We adore it. We’re trying to bring that feeling to the book, to appeal to those fans.

But there are 40+ thousand people who read U$ncanny that don’t read this book. Even more who read Astonishing.

Yes, there are people who think that we’ve flushed down the toilet everything that the previous team worked so hard to create, but we believe in this book. We think this book and these characters stand shoulder to shoulder with each and every X-book out there.

Now we just have to convince those 40+ thousand people of that.

NRAMA: Also gone from the series are some of the original New Mutants Danielle Moonstar, Karma aka Xi’an Coy Manh, Magma aka Amara Juliana Olivians Aquilla/Alison Crestmere, Wolfsbane aka Rahne Sinclair (although she’s been seen trailing/keeping an eye on Wither aka Kevin Ford), and former X-Men Northstar aka Jean-Paul Beaubier. Instead, the team’s being tutored by co-headmasters Cyclops and Emma Frost and other X-Men such as Beast. What do the senior members, especially Emma, have in mind for the next generation of X-Men?

<a href="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/newxmen/Magik/NEWX037_72.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/newxmen/Magik/NEWX037_72_t.jpg" border="0" align="left"></a> CY: Keeping them alive is the new goal. And it hasn’t obviously hasn’t been going so well. You’ll see that even the kids now comment on how they can’t rely on the X-Men to save them.

NRAMA: How does X-23 aka Laura Kinney fit into your plans for the team? The current arc features the appearance of Kimura, her handler from her time at the Facility, making life a living nightmare for her, team member Mercury and others in the X-Mansion…

CY: Wolverine basically forced her to come to the Institute. You’ll see more of that relationship in X-23: Target X (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=73455), but she told him it was a bad idea.

But at the same time, being around these kids, Wolverine hopes it will help humanize her. She’s got a long way to go.

NRAMA: Also, will the revelation about her being the Kingpin’s former assassin be further explored and explained in the coming months?

CY: We saw in X-23: TX #3 that the Kingpin hired X-23 to take down a super powered blackmailer. It’s safe to assume he’s contracted her services subsequently. As seen in New X-Men #35, she does seem to have a certain amount of respect for the Kingpin.

NRAMA: Emma has a dislike for X-23 and has most recently used the latter’s relationship with Hellion aka Julian Keller as an excuse to get rid of her. Is Emma trying to make up for past mistakes, i.e. failing to save her former students, the Hellions, and is now making sure that history won’t repeat itself with Hellion and the New X-Men? Or is there more to it than meets the eye? Does she have a history with Wolverine and/or X-23 that’s not been revealed?

CY: Emma wants to keep her students alive, and she sees X-23 as a ticking time bomb in her midst. She knows that all it takes is a dose of Trigger Scent, and X-23 will kill any one of them. In this case, Emma’s desire for X-23 to be far, far away from the school is the most responsible thing Emma’s exhibited in a while.

NRAMA: Unlike Wolverine, X-23’s origin and back stories are being fleshed out so soon after her introduction into the comics in the pages of Joe Quesada and Josh Middleton’s NYX. Why do you think the time is right for the readers and those who were first introduced to her in the X-Men Evolution series were ready to find out most, if not all about this clone of Wolverine now rather than later? Don’t we all love characters with a mysterious past anymore?

CY: Oh, there’s still plenty of mystery to X-23’s life. She was killing for the Facility from the age of something like 13, and there’s still many tales to be told. But one of the key differences between Wolverine and X-23 is that she knows every single bloody thing she’s done, she remembers every murder. Part of the mystery of the character is trying to understand how she’s dealing with that.

Hint: not very well.

NRAMA: As for Surge being the leader of the New X-Men, why is she the right candidate? After all, the team now includes others who’ve been leaders of other squads introduced in N&C earlier run such as Hellion (who once led the Hellions squad and was punished by Emma, who made Surge leader of the New X-Men instead because Julian did not obey her orders to “eliminate” X-23 in a competition), Anole (Alpha Squadron), Match (The Paragons), the now Three-In-One Stepford Cuckoos comprising Celeste, Mindee and Phoebe who once led The Corsairs and even the now depowered but still remains at the X-Mansion David Alleyne who was once offered to lead the New Mutants but declined the offer…

CY: With one or two exceptions (Rockslide), any one of the kids could potentially step up into a leadership position. Even the Facility realized that the chain of command in the team was the triad of Surge-Prodigy-Hellion.

But Surge is the right candidate, because she wants it the least. And you’ll see, it’s taking a big toll on her. Being a leader when you’re doing team sports and field day exercises is one thing, but leading when the stakes are life and death is another thing.

NRAMA: Rockslide’s now larger and more rugged than his earlier form, Mercury’s going through various experimentations (and transformations, I’m sure) in the current arc, Julian’s becoming more powerful than ever… What other changes are in store for these characters?

CY: Change is the name of the game. Rockslide’s transformation is far more complicated than Hellion putting him back together. He’s fundamentally changed, and doesn’t even know it. Yet.

Hellion’s power increase is something he can get a handle on in time, and Mercury’s torture will affect her for months to come. Things aren’t getting easier for poor Cessily, but it’s how she deals with adversity that will define her, and all the kids for that matter.

Even bigger changes are in store for a couple of the other characters.

NRAMA: One of the comments (well, more like arguments) that I’ve come across was that the new team consists of mostly the Hellions squad while the original members were either depowered or killed off. With 25 out of 182 students left after “Decimation”, there’s a chance that others could still make the team. Incoming artist Skottie Young’s been showing new character designs and sketches on his blog, and Pixie and Anole are two individuals who’re, I’m assuming, taking up more screen time, or rather story pages in the coming months. Who else is moving up the chain and taking on more responsibilities and assuming a more pro-active role? Why do you think they’re up for the challenges ahead?

CY: “Quest for Magik” will answer that question pretty conclusively. By the time issue #38 is over, readers will have a pretty good idea who’s stepping up.

But this is post-Decimation New X-Men. Stepping into the limelight isn’t so different than stepping into the crosshairs. If you’ve got a favorite background character, is becoming a full-on member really the best thing for them?

NRAMA: What’s next for Elixir? His story’s not over, right?

CY: Far from it. Anole of all people gave Elixir a suggestion, and Elixir took it to heart. In issue #37, he follows through with it.

And in issue #38, you’ll see that everything has changed for Josh Foley.

NRAMA: Likewise, Wither. What have you guys got planned for him and (former?) Black Queen of the Hellfire Club, Selene?

CY: There are definite plans for young Wither, but a couple of things are up in the air right now.

<a href="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/newxmen/Magik/NEWX037_05_72.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/newxmen/Magik/NEWX037_05_72_t.jpg" border="0" align="right"></a>But if you’re a powerful evil mutant recruiting a young mutant… why stop with just one?

NRAMA: Other than those who’re still in the X-Mansion, will the readers ever see the others who’ve left and find out what they’ve been up to since “Decimation,” especially Sofia Mantega?

CY: You will never see them again. Well, except one of them.

The truth is, who knows? Someone might have an incredible story to tell someday repowering Kidogo, or Spectre. It’s not impossible. They’re still alive. And frankly, it’s not impossible for the dead ones. Pretty much every writer out there could have every single student back among the living in about two panels.

Just not us.

NRAMA: Are there plans to introduce new characters?

CY: Nope. We’ve got plenty. Well, that’s not true. The new Purifiers were new characters, as was Predator X and Nezhno. Nezhno will be appearing, talking and using his powers in “Quest for Magik,” and Predator X will be… around.

NRAMA: While we’re on this topic, one familiar yet new character is making a comeback in the pages of New X-Men soon, and she’s none other than Magik aka Illyana Rasputin. However, as has been revealed, she will be the House of M version and not the one who succumbed to the Legacy Virus back in Uncanny X-Men #303. Now, various versions of Magik have made their way to the X-Universe since then, including most recently one alternate version from Earth-4210 in Exiles and of course, the one seen in the New X-Men issues that tied in to House of M. What went into the decision to bring this version of Magik back into the comics?

CY: We have no interest in writing House of M Illyana Rasputin. Although that version of the character is extremely important to the story.

NRAMA: In your opinion, why is this particular character so popular with X-fans old and new?

CY: She’s Magik, and she’s magic. She was an exciting character, and a tragic one. Innocent, but there was darkness within her. She did her best to keep it at bay, tried to fight it herself, and when she fell, her friends were there to catch her.

And hell, she’s a teenage mutant demon sorceress with pet demons and a bad ass sword and she could go evil at any time. I honestly don’t know what you do to make her cooler.

Except being alive. Hmm…

NRAMA: Will we see more of Armor and Blindfold (assuming they survive Joss Whedon’s “Breakworld” arc in Astonishing X-Men, that is)?

CY: Blindfold appears extensively in “Quest for Magik,” and Hisako has popped up here and there in the book. My understanding is that “Torn” and “Unstoppable” take place in the near future.

So between now and “Unstoppable,” we have to assume classes are going to start up so Hisako can have an impending chemistry test.

NRAMA: With Artie now depowered and Jubilee in the same situation (for now, anyway, as Joe Quesada’s said to look out for this character this year), will we see Emma get in touch and interact with Leech and other former Generation X members such as M (who’s with X-Factor now), Chamber, and Husk?

CY: Not in New X-Men. 25 characters, not counting Emma and Scott. Plenty. Although we did see Husk a couple of times.

NRAMA: Plans for New X-Men to crossover with other X-titles? Just how big and crucial a role will the New X-Men play in the upcoming X-event?

CY: Not a crossover per se, but we did see Jamie and Rahne from X-Factor in #32. But New X-Men is huge in the crossover. I can think of three major elements of the story that are New X-Men centric, and the kids will shine.

NRAMA: Speaking of crossovers, Rockslide did mention that the team should “beat up” the Young Avengers, with him facing off against Hulkling, although fellow students Loa and Anole said the latter would win instead. So, will Santo Vaccarro get to fulfill his wish anytime soon?

CY: There’s been talk.

NRAMA: When asked about X-23 in an interview, Chris did mention that there are plans for more sequels. So, are more minis in the works, or will the readers find out more about the character in the pages of New X-Men instead?

CY: Craig has a structure in place that could generate X-23 stories for years to come. Between Innocence Lost (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=22365), Target X, and New X-Men’s “Mercury Falling,” he and I feel that having put those stories out there, it’s like the X-23 primer. Other writers can see what Craig intended for the character, and really get a feel for who she is.

NRAMA: Craig’s also said that X-23 is "definitely not just Wolverine with female parts." So, what's your mid- to long-term plan for the character in the X-Universe? And as seen in Target X, Captain America and Daredevil know of her existence. What role do you see her in the main Marvel Universe?

CY: As you’ll see in [May’s] X-23: Target X #6, Cap and DD are hearing the story of X-23 first hand, and it presents them with a real problem. Can she be held responsible for what she was made to do? Does X-23 know the difference between right and wrong? And what do you do with her? Turn her over to who, exactly?

Cap feels responsible for letting her escape through his fingers, and she’s killed hundreds since then. But as Emma Frost knows, X-23 is just a weapon. Other people are pointing her. So Cap’s got a big decision to make.

NRAMA: With the House of M Magik arc, which version of Belasco is it going to be? And what does he want from this version of Magik?

CY: The really kick ass, dangerous one. As you’ll see in #37, he’s pissed. What does he want? He wants his apprentice back.

NRAMA: On his blog (http://skottieyoung.blogspot.com/2007/02/nxm-x-tras-02.html), Skottie made it known that Julian is to be modeled after Sawyer from Lost. Who're the rest of the gang modeled after then? Why?

CY: The long term evolution of Julian Keller is to turn him into a red neck con artist with a penchant for nicknaming people with fun, pop culture-y names.

In all seriousness, we saw that deep inside this prick of a man (Sawyer) there was someone good inside. And that’s how we saw Julian. Prick, but at heart a good person. And amazingly, over the hell these kids have gone through the last year and a half, Julian has changed. You’ll see more of that in issue #36.

Regardless of what people may think of the comparison, look back on the last 17 or so issues and judge our characterization of him, not just a comparison or model that was thrown out.

Other models… we didn’t really have any aside from Hellion, and it was just to help us wrap our heads around him. I’ve got one for Pixie, but I’ll keep it to myself, as it’ll get me yelled at on the internet. Yes, we know she’s Welsh.

And lastly, thanks to everyone who’s stuck with us, who’s come on board, and who’s just joining in now. We are so excited about the book and what’s coming, we can’t stand it.

And Skottie Young is going to rock this book.

We promise good junior X-Men excitement, and we aim to deliver. These kids are tough, but they’re still kids. They’re fun, they’re cocky, they’re idealistic, they wear their hearts on their sleeves, they do good, they mess up. All with super powers, to boot.

And in a world that hates, fears, and wants them dead, all they have is each other.

Stick around, the ride is just starting.

Look for an interview with artist Niko Henrichon tomorrow, and another one with Skottie Young soon.

NormanB258

03-12-2007, 01:59 PM

Good to see more attention given to this vastly underrated book.

Keep up the great work guys!

Angelophile

03-12-2007, 02:10 PM

Although from a statistical standpoint, I think Academy X is having a better time of it than Generation X. I’ll own up to it, despite owning every issue of Generation X, I totally forgot about them when we wrote the mass eulogy in issue #32.

Shame on you. :p

I have to say, this writing team have turned it around for me. They started their run on rocky ground. House of M, new creators and then six months of misery as character after character bit the big one. In many cases I didn't care, since the characters had been fleshed out on internet message boards instead of the comic itself) but there were a number of departures that felt gratuitous. Once the dust began to settle, and some of the mis-characterisation was out the way (notably Emma) and the deaths have subsided, Yost and Kyle have finally settled down to tell the story of the surviving kids and suddenly it's obvious that they are good. Very good. Managing to balance character and drama with plenty of nods to past continuity. It's started to feel like a new, dangerous era for the X-men in training and a lot closer to the tone of the original New Mutants than any young mutants book for the past 20 years.

And I have to say, the art here is wonderful.

Ace

03-12-2007, 02:11 PM

Well they taketh away and now they giveth back.

works for me, considering I grew up with Illyana. (and you know if you grew up with her because you called her Maj-eek for years. Or Mah-Gyick as my ex-roomie used to do).

Though, I still think it's a shame that Dani's out of the limelight.

She ought to be an X-Men, or at least an Avenger or something.

VinnyPic

03-12-2007, 02:16 PM

I still think killing Jay was stupid.

And where the hell was Sam's reax to that?

NielsVanEekelen

03-12-2007, 02:16 PM

CY: We have no interest in writing House of M Illyana Rasputin. Although that version of the character is extremely important to the story.

NRAMA: In your opinion, why is this particular character so popular with X-fans old and new?

CY: She’s Magik, and she’s magic. She was an exciting character, and a tragic one. Innocent, but there was darkness within her. She did her best to keep it at bay, tried to fight it herself, and when she fell, her friends were there to catch her.

And hell, she’s a teenage mutant demon sorceress with pet demons and a bad ass sword and she could go evil at any time. I honestly don’t know what you do to make her cooler.

Except being alive. Hmm…

This makes me very happy. I've been thrilled ever since it was hinted that Illyana was coming back, and worried that it was going to be the less interesting House of M version of her.

Have to admit, I had serious issues with the direction of this book since Decimation--it's just not what I want in a book about the junior students of Xavier's. There's already plenty of X-Men squads out there, and I'd like to read about some mutants being kids and students, too.

But Yost pretty much exactly echoes my favorite things about my favorite Marvel character here. I'll be picking the book up with this story arc, and probably in singles, which will be the first Marvel book in a long time I've done that with.

leahcim

03-12-2007, 02:16 PM

I am soooo excited about Magik coming back. She will overshadow all the new x-babies for sure!

Spartan

03-12-2007, 02:23 PM

Angelophile

03-12-2007, 02:28 PM

I still think killing Jay was stupid.

And where the hell was Sam's reax to that?

Shown in New X-men, briefly, and also in Mike Carey's X-men.

Singularity

03-12-2007, 02:28 PM

rwe1138

03-12-2007, 02:31 PM

Evilomar

03-12-2007, 02:34 PM

They have really turned this book from boring teenagers that I cared nothing about to young adults that are believable. The only thing that I am missing are the teachers: Moonstar, Magma, Karma, and hell even Rahne could pop in and out every once in a while.

Ravager

03-12-2007, 02:34 PM

Whats the difference between House of M Magik and the 616 magik?

Colossus better be involved....(Assuming he survives 'Unstoppable')

motteditor

03-12-2007, 02:40 PM

I haven't even read the interview yet, but I'm so stoked for this storyline. I recently netflixed X-Men Evolution, which sent me back to read my OLD Uncanny (and Classic) X-Men and I just got to the first Limbo/Illyana story.

I'll say this for Kyle and Yost. If you can get past their ridiculous penchant for killing off characters (and they seem to be toning that down; only one death in the last three issues!), of all the xbooks, they most harken back to the stories that made me an X-fan in the first place.

the husband and wife writing team of Nunzio DeFilippis and Christina Weir.

Huh. I didn't know they were married...

And with Magik (the House of M version, by the way) entering the scene, will Belasco be far away?

Oh. Disappointing. I suppose I'll have to re-read the HoM issues. Ugh. Just seems like it's going to confuse things any more, and why base it off such a godawful premise? Why not just bring back Illyana. I just hope this version is somewhat like the original, and not the lobotomized version that was in Exiles (don't really remember her sticking out all that much in the HoM story or how much she acted like the New Muties version of the character). Definitely am not crazy about the costume, which seems awfully generic. Hopefully if she sticks around, she'll get a new one.

Chris Yost: There are 25 students left, not counting Quentin Quire, and sometimes it feels like about 15 too many. From before we took over the book, we had a list going of who we wanted to keep, and who was going to go, one way or another.

I thought Quentin was dead...

CY: Emma wants to keep her students alive, and she sees X-23 as a ticking time bomb in her midst. She knows that all it takes is a dose of Trigger Scent, and X-23 will kill any one of them. In this case, Emma’s desire for X-23 to be far, far away from the school is the most responsible thing Emma’s exhibited in a while.

Unfortunately, it was one of those things that really didn't gibe with the rest of the line, where every dangerous mutant in the world was being allowed into the mansion ghetto.

CY: We have no interest in writing House of M Illyana Rasputin. Although that version of the character is extremely important to the story.

Huh. OK. Well, that may make me feel a little better about those comments I made earlier.

CY: Blindfold appears extensively in “Quest for Magik,” and Hisako has popped up here and there in the book. My understanding is that “Torn” and “Unstoppable” take place in the near future.
So between now and “Unstoppable,” we have to assume classes are going to start up so Hisako can have an impending chemistry test.

Cool, I guess. Sounds like Hisako may not make it back, but hopefully they'll use her if she does.

NRAMA: Speaking of crossovers, Rockslide did mention that the team should “beat up” the Young Avengers, with him facing off against Hulkling, although fellow students Loa and Anole said the latter would win instead. So, will Santo Vaccarro get to fulfill his wish anytime soon?
CY: There’s been talk.

That'd be a lot of fun. And then the Runaways, please. And maybe the New Warriors.

Kolimar

03-12-2007, 02:45 PM

Cool images. Good level of detail. Excellent choice.

Bullet_Train

03-12-2007, 02:45 PM

I stopped reading shortway into Academy X for lack of funds but thats changed and honestly, with half of my favorite characters dead or depowered I don't know if I can get back into it. I was never a fan of Julian's character, then again probably because we weren't really supposed to be. But I may get the trades...One thin, I didn't read the Hellions House of M issues, but was there something about Magiks characterization there that they don't want to reflect? Because he says its the Illyana from House of M, but they have no interest in writing House of M Illyana...so Im guessing theyre changing her characterization a bit?

Justice

03-12-2007, 02:52 PM

Shame on you. :p

I have to say, this writing team have turned it around for me. They started their run on rocky ground. House of M, new creators and then six months of misery as character after character bit the big one. In many cases I didn't care, since the characters had been fleshed out on internet message boards instead of the comic itself) but there were a number of departures that felt gratuitous. Once the dust began to settle, and some of the mis-characterisation was out the way (notably Emma) and the deaths have subsided, Yost and Kyle have finally settled down to tell the story of the surviving kids and suddenly it's obvious that they are good. Very good. Managing to balance character and drama with plenty of nods to past continuity. It's started to feel like a new, dangerous era for the X-men in training and a lot closer to the tone of the original New Mutants than any young mutants book for the past 20 years.

And I have to say, the art here is wonderful.

Pretty much exactly what I'd have said. And I love seeing the cameos by the handful of remainind students not on the main squad...I hope they keep those up...and not just in the form of death scenes.

Xero

03-12-2007, 02:57 PM

Be sure to take lots of notes guys, killing a franchise book is an art unto itself.

You know Nunzio DeFillippis and Christina Weir built New X-Men up until it was a viable property, and they had the chops to write a twenty-five member team. But then again they were both GOOD writers. If Jim Shooter isn't permanent, DeFillippis and Weir should be given the Legion of Super-Heroes.

Maurice M

03-12-2007, 03:04 PM

Ace

03-12-2007, 03:08 PM

Anthem

03-12-2007, 03:11 PM

etharos

03-12-2007, 03:13 PM

New x-men is a very good book, buy it. Things happen, characters evolve and yes, there was a lot of characters dying even potentialy good ones.
For the old times x-men fans, the nimrod arc is intersting, at least because you see Nimrod and it's apparition is linked to an old classic story (circa uncanny 180-190 if memory serves).

protege

03-12-2007, 03:14 PM

They killed off icarus? i didn't even know him!

Bugaboo-X

03-12-2007, 03:19 PM

0bsessions

03-12-2007, 03:29 PM

Maybe I'm the only one, but I felt all of the changes to be absolutely necessary. The book before these two came on was completely boring -- I only stuck with it because I had all the issues previous, and wanted to get a complete run of something for fun. :D

The New Mutants are a great concept and secondary X-team, but some of those characters introduced were lust lame. How interesting are pheremone powers? Did we really need another Archangel? Could anyone figure out how Tag could possibly be useful?? The roster is a lot tighter now, and the stories have more consequences. It's a great, unpredictable read.

How much of the run prior to the current regime did you actually read?

The pheremone powers proved INCREDIBLY useful and interesting in the House of M arc (To very diastrous and violent results).

Tag, in my opinion, is the biggest offense of their wholesale slaughter. Tag had one of the most intriguing and original powers introduced in years. It worked at its best in a defensives manner, but there were a couple instances, particularly in the Too Much Information storyline, where he used them very creatively. Imagine them out in the field against a group of enemies, he tags the other group's leader, and suddenly their opposition is completely disorganized and screwed. His power was primarily a support role, but a useful and intriguing one with lots of possibilities.

The characters that the former writers focused on were, primarily, original and interesting.

The current roster is essentially a team comprised entirely of redundant characters. We've got the strong guy (Rockslide), the male version of the original Marvel Girl (Hellion), and the chick Wolverine (And I don't care how many times they tell us she's not, the only difference is she has blades in her feet and is actually even MORE one-dimensional). And for every interesting aspect of these characters and those that aren't unoriginal, they don't utilize them. When was the last time we even saw Rockslide use the only unique aspect of his powers (Hell, how many of you even remember he can remove his appendages)? When was the last time Dust did...well, anything really? Mercury might also interest me if she wasn't whiny Rogue volume 2 (Didn't Rogue herself just finally STOP whining?!).

The only character who's really intrrigued me since Decimation is David, and I'm worried month in and month out that's he's next to get slaughtered.

Look back on the original run, most of the team had original powers, or at least new spins on classics. Most of the cliches were shunted to the background (Or villified) anyway and the only team member without an interesting power was Icarus, and he was created by Austen anyway.

I can get action from X-Men, and it's a lot better there anyway; I don't think we really need X-Men Jr. I LIKED the teen drama vibe of the old team.

0bsessions

03-12-2007, 03:36 PM

Things happen, characters evolve and yes, there was a lot of characters dying even potentialy good ones.

Can you name me ONE single logical character EVOLUTION from the last year? Characters have either been outright completely rewritten to fit the story OR killed off.

I personally hate Yost's attitude. He says the next logical step is to kill off what's left...so WHY did he then subsequently kill off JUST the depowered kids compared to like two powered kids?

Plus, the comment about not wanting to write "House of M Magik" just irks me. If you don't WANT to write her, then don't or at least PRETEND you care what you're doing.

Morbius

03-12-2007, 03:41 PM

Be sure to take lots of notes guys, killing a franchise book is an art unto itself.

You know Nunzio DeFillippis and Christina Weir built New X-Men up until it was a viable property

I respect that you liked the old run, but the fact is that it had abismal numbers, and Kyle and Yost turned that around completely. No matter how good you found their run to be creatively, they certainly didn't build it into a viable property. Kyle and Yost have managed to do that, though.

emmabe

03-12-2007, 03:43 PM

si, rodrigo

03-12-2007, 03:43 PM

Can you name me ONE single logical character EVOLUTION from the last year?
They've stopped their petty fighting and now are bonding to each other. Which would be logical evolution because once your friends die, you would realize that there are more important things in life.

cyberv

03-12-2007, 03:45 PM

...Anybody else note that he's talking about Captain America in the PRESENT tense?

Violent Gorilla

03-12-2007, 03:46 PM

Does no one understand any more that "decimation" means killing one in ten? It's what the Romans used to do to punish a legion that failed them in some way. The 180+ mutants would have had to be "decimated" 19 times (I checked) to only have 25 survivors.

But then, I haven't read an X-book in about 20 years...:rolleyes:

Thanks for being the 2 millionth person to make this observation.

PhoenixFacto

03-12-2007, 03:50 PM

I think one of the subtle aspects of the relationship between Julian and Laura that pleases fans is similiar to the relationship that developed between Connor and Cassie in DC's Y.Justice/Titans: We get to see the younger generation representations of older icons develop greater intimacy than their templates could. In other words, Superboy and Wondergirl got to date even though Superman and Wonderwoman could never really follow through, and X-23 has the opportunity to be romantically involved with Hellion -- their powers representing Wolverine and Phoenix, respectively.

wow thats very insightful. I never thought of the Hellion X-23 relationship in that light. I kind of like that idea. I wasnt a fan of them getting rid of Sofia and I thought it was a bit soon for Julian to take to some one new , but this book has gotten better since the end of the mass slaughter of 2006. That was really to much death in one year. It was horrifically unbelievable.

Also, I don't think anyone gives DeFillipis and Weir enough credit. These guys would have nothing to work with if not for thier early stories. While they might have been soapish and more drama orientied, they made these characters into individuals with different and diverse personalities. Without their base all this book would be is a wolver-clone.

I look forward to seeing this book interact with the other x-books and hope we get to see dani moonstar soon. The elimination of her from the books was also cruel since she adopted one of the kids early on. I get they want a trail by fire attitude but overplaying scott and emma is not the answer bring in some other forms of authority.

Morbius

03-12-2007, 03:53 PM

...Anybody else note that he's talking about Captain America in the PRESENT tense?

Target X is set in the past.

comicfanuk

03-12-2007, 04:12 PM

Yay! Keep it comming guys!
Can't wait for what's to come! :D

0bsessions

03-12-2007, 04:18 PM

They've stopped their petty fighting and now are bonding to each other. Which would be logical evolution because once your friends die, you would realize that there are more important things in life.

Petty fighting: When did this go away exactly? The former New Mutants and the former Hellions are all STILL at each others' throats over a year later, with the exception of Mercury, who was ALWAYS non-confrontational and overall pretty friendly with the New Mutants. Plus, we now have the added petty fighting of White Queen versus X-23.

I find that this title boils down to the comic book equivelant of Linkin Park: all flash and teen angst for the sake of angst rather than to serve a purpose, absolutely no substance.

Rednax310

03-12-2007, 04:25 PM

Does no one understand any more that "decimation" means killing one in ten? It's what the Romans used to do to punish a legion that failed them in some way. The 180+ mutants would have had to be "decimated" 19 times (I checked) to only have 25 survivors.

But then, I haven't read an X-book in about 20 years...:rolleyes:

Actually, another accepted definition of "decimation" is "to reduce drastically especially in number." Pretty sure what happened to the mutants counts as that.

http://209.161.33.50/dictionary/Decimation

Burnt Frog

03-12-2007, 04:26 PM

I have not liked a single comic written by these two, and X-23 would be the worst thing to happen to the X-verse if not for House of M.

However, if they bring Magik back (the real 616 one: accept no substitutes!) in a continuity-accurate way and write her in character, then all sins they have ever done are forgiven. And I'll follow New X-Men like a starving man follows a red-haired clown in yellow overalls.

Doombug

03-12-2007, 04:31 PM

My understanding is that “Torn” and “Unstoppable” take place in the near future.

Finally i'm validated!

si, rodrigo

03-12-2007, 04:31 PM

Petty fighting: When did this go away exactly? The former New Mutants and the former Hellions are all STILL at each others' throats over a year later, with the exception of Mercury, who was ALWAYS non-confrontational and overall pretty friendly with the New Mutants. Plus, we now have the added petty fighting of White Queen versus X-23.

I find that this title boils down to the comic book equivelant of Linkin Park: all flash and teen angst for the sake of angst rather than to serve a purpose, absolutely no substance.

Julian saved Nori from Nimrod, Josh and Julian were completely friendly to each other. Rockslide says that he likes Nori. I could go on, but you asked for only one example.

Then again I like Linkin Park, so maybe it's just me full of teen angst.

Jess Nukem

03-12-2007, 05:11 PM

The previous writers didn't do that great a job with the title. They had way too many elements and they didn't write condensely enough so the book suffered. And yeah, a lot of the secondary characters got developed outside of the book and on the CBR forums.

I find it really pathethic when you have to go online to a messageboard just to get a fuller understanding or more developments for a comic you already paid for that was lacking in the first place.

Chris Claremont operates that way as well. He provides verbose explainations on some of the inconsistancies in his comics on his board at Comixfan.com that he didn't feel was worthy of a rewrite before sending to the artist.

Kyle and Yost, at first seemed a bit trigger happy with all the killing. But the fact remains is, that they killed off the useless and boring characters that had powers that other more established characters already had. They also created an atmosphere of hatred and fear in the comic that the other X-Titles (except X-Factor) have been lacking.

I'll continue to support them, and look forward to many more future stories.

NewChad

03-12-2007, 05:12 PM

I thought Amanda Sefton (Nightcrawlers ex & step-sister) was Magick in 616?

Did something happen to her - or are we due a Magick vs Magick face off in the future?

motteditor

03-12-2007, 05:17 PM

I thought Amanda Sefton (Nightcrawlers ex & step-sister) was Magick in 616?
Did something happen to her - or are we due a Magick vs Magick face off in the future?

I think that was one of those things were Marvel just didn't understand their fanbase. I don't think anyone was saying "We want Magik" back and meaning we want Amanda Sefton to take her place. She's a perfectly fine character, but she's not Illyana.

wow thats very insightful. I never thought of the Hellion X-23 relationship in that light. I kind of like that idea.

I never really saw that that way either. I think the bigger thing their "relationship" is showing is how each will develop. Hellion's better nature is being revealed thanks to proximity to Wolverine Girl. Before, he seemed like the callous one, but now he's trying to save lives and is basically learning how to be a hero. Wolverine Girl on the other hand is apparently getting some more exposure to humanity and what it really means.

Iwoodby

03-12-2007, 05:18 PM

I LOVE NEW X-MEN! I do, I collected the earlier series of them and it I felt like it wasn't ever going anywhere (I mean they hardly left the mansion). Unfortunately, most of the New Mutant squad didn't have viable powers (or unique ones, for ex. Wind dancer and Icarus). I want you to know that I did like the previous versions, but now it feels like these students are actually acknowledged in the X-Universe.

Plus, Chris and Kyle had the issue of putting the genie back in the bottle that Grant Morrison openned. In Grant's run he created a world that had millions of mutants. That didn't exist before him, there might have been a lot, but not millions. Mutants became a dime a dozen. The X-mansion became a Hogwarts for mutants. Even though the killings were gratuitous, I was loving it because they made sure that if some writer decided that he wanted the give mutants their powers back the school wouldn't get overrun with 100+ returning students.

I like that there's a feeling that no one is safe, it doesn't exist with the X-books (most of the time) because the characters are built up properties. These characters that were killed (Icarus, Wallflower, Quill, Tag, etc) were cool characters, but worth the sacrifice to mold the remaining students and transform them into future X-Men who know danger.

I'm excited to see where this is going, because until the recent change in X-Men creative teams, New X-Men was the only book that felt like an old-school X title.

Show of hands, who was shocked and happy to see the skeletal remains of Mammomax?

To the writers of New X-Men, thank you for giving me a book to truely enjoy, I can't wait so see these characters blend into the ranks of the X-Men greats. Oh, and keep Prodigy alive and active.

Remember, we can always see these characters come back from the dead in some way, shape or form in Exiles!

darthdad

03-12-2007, 05:21 PM

i'm more than a little excited about this. heck i loved the character so much as a kid that i named my daughter after her (ellyana instead of illyana). i was disapointed with the house of m story so i'm hoping for a kickin story this time around.

Nine

03-12-2007, 05:25 PM

I think that was one of those things were Marvel just didn't understand their fanbase. I don't think anyone was saying "We want Magik" back and meaning we want Amanda Sefton to take her place. She's a perfectly fine character, but she's not Illyana.

I think the story where Amanda Sefton became Magik was originally supposed to be Illyana's comeback. And then Marvel made Claremont change his story halfway through.

M-Day

03-12-2007, 05:32 PM

This book has been rather shallow. Even without the killings, its a lot of the worst part of Marvel 90's. They've certainly been blessed with great art and promotional opportunties, but I seriously hope we can get a new creative team onboard. The kids have been getting some good moments outside of this book, and I'd hate to see that discontinue when Yost & Co. feel like resuming their sadistic killing spree. It'd be cool to have another reason to read this book other than to see who gets blown up next. Because I can just read it at Borders for that.

kitamu re

03-12-2007, 05:47 PM

My hopes for this are rock bottom. They've been crapping on the characters I've liked for months. They've trashed most of the New Mutants completely (hell, they're not even bringing back the real Magik here). So, I stopped reading and can't see myself coming back even for my favorite New Mutant character's "return"

I'm enjoying the X-23 mini as usual and hope for more after Target X is over.

P.S. Hellion is a stupid character and is dragging the book down, someone kill him

Wait... it's not "Maj-eek"?

totally agree. I dropped this book with last issue..wolverine girl is lame and the fact that they haven't given david his powers back and have so many clicjes characters is not my cup of tea. I liked the last arc with forge and ultron but the current arc is crummy. the magic issue is definitely not up my alley either

Chris

03-12-2007, 06:03 PM

This book went from one that was usually on the bottom of the pile to read, to one of the top. I love the characters... I love that Magik might be coming back. She's one of my favorites. I also hope that the status quo stays for a bit. It's the little things of the book that really stand out. Like Pixie or Anole, or the fact that David's still there. I hope that continues... I don't want to see him leave now... :D

Chris

Mrsupertight

03-12-2007, 06:27 PM

I can't believe the number of naysayers about this book, particularly people who slam it when they haven't even read the lastest arcs. The Nimrod storyline sold me on this book. It has the best classic-x feel out there. Try this book!

I feel the same way. I like what's going on in a the x-books but this is the one I read immediately. It has that Claremont/Byrne feel to it (loved the Nimrod arc). I have a friend that is a huge X-men fan and I'm trying to get him to pick this one up. I loved the new way Paco Medina is drawing, I hope Scottie will wow me as much.

Mrsupertight

03-12-2007, 06:40 PM

My hopes for this are rock bottom. They've been crapping on the characters I've liked for months. They've trashed most of the New Mutants completely (hell, they're not even bringing back the real Magik here). So, I stopped reading and can't see myself coming back even for my favorite New Mutant character's "return" :(

I'm enjoying the X-23 mini as usual and hope for more after Target X is over.

This book isn't about those New Mutants. It never was. The previous writers used the old group as a backdrop. They could have introduced new teachers but they didn't, they used them in order to have a link to the old group, and bring in the old readers of that book. Those new mutants have grown up and moved on.

Did you think this way when Gen X came out???

The real Majik's a mess history wise and we're all better off if everyone leaves that version alone.

Dave41Fan

03-12-2007, 06:50 PM

These "creators" should really be ashamed of themselves for the trite, pretentious nonsense that this book has degenerated into. It's all desperate, shallow shock tactics.

I truly cannot say enough bad things about this book. If anyone who hasn't read this book is considering doing so, don't.

Repeat - AVOID at all costs. You have been warned.

Quoted for bright, shining truth.

If "the world is such a dangerous place", why don't we see other X-books with high death and near-death counts? Why are characters that were presumably training intensely at the Institute under DeFilippis/Weir reduced to nothing more than chickensh-- victims under Yost/Kyle? Finally, the most burning of all my questions, why is there one singular character that somehow avoids all this trouble and death?

Pass on "The X-23 Show", folks.

My favorite line in the interview? "Craig has a structure in place that could generate X-23 stories for years to come." Yeah, we know... it's called "countless Wolverine stories". :-P

Craig

fragility

03-12-2007, 07:03 PM

Im just shocked that Yost is aware that Generation X once EXISTED! :eek: but Im glad they wont be touching the characters. Better to keep the few remaining members safe from their hack-n-slash tendencies...

JaredOh

03-12-2007, 07:10 PM

NRAMA: On his blog (http://skottieyoung.blogspot.com/2007/02/nxm-x-tras-02.html), Skottie made it known that Julian is to be modeled after Sawyer from Lost. Who're the rest of the gang modeled after then? Why?

CY: The long term evolution of Julian Keller is to turn him into a red neck con artist with a penchant for nicknaming people with fun, pop culture-y names.

In all seriousness, we saw that deep inside this prick of a man (Sawyer) there was someone good inside. And that’s how we saw Julian. Prick, but at heart a good person. And amazingly, over the hell these kids have gone through the last year and a half, Julian has changed. You’ll see more of that in issue #36.

Regardless of what people may think of the comparison, look back on the last 17 or so issues and judge our characterization of him, not just a comparison or model that was thrown out.

Other models… we didn’t really have any aside from Hellion, and it was just to help us wrap our heads around him. I’ve got one for Pixie, but I’ll keep it to myself, as it’ll get me yelled at on the internet. Yes, we know she’s Welsh.
Nice to know that you can't make interesting characters on your own. You have to base their personalities off existing ones.

A+ Writer! :)

si, rodrigo

03-12-2007, 07:30 PM

Elixir

03-12-2007, 07:31 PM

Great interview! I hope that all this upcoming excitement will entice lots of new readers, such a great book and amazing characters!

Can't wait for the "new recruits", despite the deaths in year one (only Laurie could really have been considered a main character in the previous run, Jay and Brian were more main-supporting) and the "stepping into the cross hairs" comment, I'm hoping death will stay away from the kids for the forseeable future. None of Kyle & Yosts "main cast" have actually died yet so...

skl183

03-12-2007, 07:40 PM

Elixir

03-12-2007, 07:48 PM

The x-event runs from November - January not summer. Why is it I find myself typing this about 3 times a day?! lol where did the whole "summer" thing come from in the first place?

beetle1million

03-12-2007, 07:53 PM

I politely disagree. I've got a full run since it was launched as New Mutants Vol. 2, and I still love this book.

I'll do you one better- I thought the characters were horrifically bad, and the story was terrible, prior to the current writers. They really made me care and be excited about a book that was one big pile of poo for me before they got there.

beetle1million

03-12-2007, 07:56 PM

Quoted for bright, shining truth.

If "the world is such a dangerous place", why don't we see other X-books with high death and near-death counts? Why are characters that were presumably training intensely at the Institute under DeFilippis/Weir reduced to nothing more than chickensh-- victims under Yost/Kyle? Finally, the most burning of all my questions, why is there one singular character that somehow avoids all this trouble and death?

Pass on "The X-23 Show", folks.

My favorite line in the interview? "Craig has a structure in place that could generate X-23 stories for years to come." Yeah, we know... it's called "countless Wolverine stories". :-P

Craig

Just so you know, that whole quoted for truth thing is way over.

And they weren't reduced to chickenish victims. They were made into more realistic characters with failings and merits beyond the cookie cutter 'gosh we wish we were 80's New Mutants characters' that starred in the book pre-Decimation.

Maurice M

03-12-2007, 08:01 PM

This book isn't about those New Mutants. It never was. The previous writers used the old group as a backdrop. They could have introduced new teachers but they didn't, they used them in order to have a link to the old group, and bring in the old readers of that book. Those new mutants have grown up and moved on.

Did you think this way when Gen X came out???

The real Majik's a mess history wise and we're all better off if everyone leaves that version alone.The book was originally titled "New Mutants". Just becuase they changed the name midway through didn't change the content of the book. It wasn't until this current team came aboard that things derailed. So, no I didn't have that problem with Gen X since it was never titled New Mutants and didn't star half the cast of the original book. I never felt that book needed to appeal to the same crowd or sensibilities.

NoPrize

03-12-2007, 08:07 PM

Sorry about my rants..hot flashes, mood swings.. it was that time of a marvel cycle Claremont and his excellent collabs with artists cast a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng shadow. You could have revamped the book without death, just have students leave or gasp graduate.

Promise you will never have a Wakanda soldier throwing vibro spears again and I will forgive you.
yuck yuck

Wellness

03-12-2007, 08:19 PM

The book was originally titled "New Mutants". Just becuase they changed the name midway through didn't change the content of the book. It wasn't until this current team came aboard that things derailed. So, no I didn't have that problem with Gen X since it was never titled New Mutants and didn't star half the cast of the original book. I never felt that book needed to appeal to the same crowd or sensibilities.

Just because a book is originally titled one thing, doesn't mean it is bound to always feature that exact same group of characters.

The book underwent a change because the old format wasn't working as well as it could, it happens all the time. Every book goes through it and to be fair, this current change despite a rough couple opening months starting off has done a fairly good job of making the characters actually live up to the title of X-Men. Its not the same soft handed approach the previous team did yes, but it still a good book IMO.

Titan Slade

03-12-2007, 08:32 PM

I just wanted to say that I have tried the book out under both writing teams, and I still don't like the characters in the book no matter who has written them, but I am going to buy the book once Skottie Young starts drawing it, for the art alone.

Spartan

03-12-2007, 08:36 PM

How much of the run prior to the current regime did you actually read?

Um...well...ALL of it. Do you know what a "complete run" is?

The pheremone powers proved INCREDIBLY useful and interesting in the House of M arc (To very diastrous and violent results).

And also incredibly boring to draw and extremely difficult to use effectively. C'mon, having Wallflower take down the Hulk with smell powers? Does that make any lick of sense (even if it was a training exercise)? The writers had to go out of their way to make her useful and interesting, it's like trying to find stuff to do with Angel that doesn't involve scouting ahead.

Tag, in my opinion, is the biggest offense of their wholesale slaughter. Tag had one of the most intriguing and original powers introduced in years. It worked at its best in a defensives manner, but there were a couple instances, particularly in the Too Much Information storyline, where he used them very creatively. Imagine them out in the field against a group of enemies, he tags the other group's leader, and suddenly their opposition is completely disorganized and screwed. His power was primarily a support role, but a useful and intriguing one with lots of possibilities.

He also had no skills. How exactly was he supposed to get to an enemy's leader, which would arguably be the most dangerous and well protected individual in an encounter? They'd have to turn him into some kind of cliched ninja to make him useful in a fight, his power is far too situational. Why do you think they gave Rogue flight and super strength?

Look back on the original run, most of the team had original powers, or at least new spins on classics. Most of the cliches were shunted to the background (Or villified) anyway and the only team member without an interesting power was Icarus, and he was created by Austen anyway.

I definately agree with Icarus, the emo version of Angel. But Wallflower is basically a younger version of Stacey X, and Tag is a more useless version of Rogue pre-Ms. Marvel days. They're really only as original as you're willing to allow them to be.

CaptainCanad

03-12-2007, 08:46 PM

If "the world is such a dangerous place", why don't we see other X-books with high death and near-death counts?
Ask the other writers; these guys followed through with the Decimation idea.

Pass on "The X-23 Show", folks.
Apart from the current storyline, X-23 has barely done anything; certainly less than several of her co-stars.

NRAMA: Speaking of crossovers, Rockslide did mention that the team should “beat up” the Young Avengers, with him facing off against Hulkling, although fellow students Loa and Anole said the latter would win instead. So, will Santo Vaccarro get to fulfill his wish anytime soon?

CY: There’s been talk.
They should definitely do that; it's not like anyone else is writing stories about the YA at present.

deadmerc

03-12-2007, 08:49 PM

I stopped buying this shortly after they finished killing a big bunch of kids.

It wasn't the same after the cast I liked was dead. I figured I wouldn't last long after Wallflower's death . . .

Cryptic

03-12-2007, 09:06 PM

The New Mutants are a great concept and secondary X-team, but some of those characters introduced were lust lame. How interesting are pheremone powers? Did we really need another Archangel? Could anyone figure out how Tag could possibly be useful?? The roster is a lot tighter now, and the stories have more consequences. It's a great, unpredictable read.

Actually, I think if they had ramped up Tag a bit in a certain way, he could have had the potential to really **** with people (and perhaps a better name would help, also.) Instead of just making people run away blindly from his "tagged" target, if they would make it work on objects and locations as well, focus it selectively so it affects some and not others, and make him able to reverse the effect (making people drawn toward a person, place or thing) he could control battles on a massive scale, send people literally walking off a cliff, make a speedster, flier or even someone behind the wheel of a car plow into someone or something, effect evacuations (or mass kidnappings), clear out all the grunts from an enemy base, etc. Selective empathic attraction / repulsion with varying intensity. Its defensive value is obvious, but in the right hands its offensive capability could also be formidable. Give it three "settings": attract (compel people to move toward), repel (compel people to move away), and "ignore" (make people ambivalent towards something, this last really ramping up the defensive potential) and it could be a pretty devastating power.

I thought it was a fun idea (back when it was a spell and then a psionic power in a certain roleplaying game), but from the one time I saw it used in NXM: AX it became clear that they had no idea what to do with it.

I like unusual powers... especially with mutant characters. Making them useful is a somewhat fascinating exercise for me. Unfortunately, the trend seems to be to always use the old standards: the super-strong one, the telekinetic, the feral clawed regenerator, etc.

I have to agree on another winged mutant, though. After Sam and his biochemical blast field, Paige and her skin-shedding transformations... I was really hoping that if we had to suffer a gaggle of Guthries they would at least be as interesting in terms of powers.

Ozwas

03-12-2007, 09:09 PM

Well I must confess I wasn't even a newsarama member until i read this.
I just read and was content... until now

I heard about the new-mutant relaunch and was ecstatic. After Ellis' run on Gen X and Morrisson's run on New X-Men I was REALLY looking forward to a Top Ten-ish ensemble book that got Deep into the academy. Boy was i disappointed. Crappy 6 book fluff story arcs, Over-dramatization of b to c rate characters (at best), and missed opportunities with "old-heads" out of x-factor and x-force. Astonishing did a better job of fleshing out their students in 3 books w/ cameo's than new-new x-men did in 15. Morrisons' New X-men students were amazing as characters (even though many went the way of the Dodo) and his take on the school seemed "realistically" portrayed . The new Magik yarn doesn't impress me either (no more than the garbagy wolvie clone used to hide a lack of good writing / ideas.
Here's some thoughts in general to think about...
1- the Magik name was currently used by Amanda Sefton (Nightcrawlers old chick). She was in charge of Limbo and the soul armor/sword (and it seemed like she was doing a good job too). It was even a decent transition in a really messy area of continuity.
2- Even w/ Decimation, this isn't a good ensemble book (25-ish mutants) it's a crappy team book about 6( to10 if you're lucky) kids (hellions) with the Wolvie knock-off getting ungodly amounts of face time (look at the interview).
3- "this book and these characters stand shoulder to shoulder with each and every X-book out there" if by shoulder to shoulder they are referencing a lopsided hunchback with one shoulder below the left glut cheek ... sure

I'm sure if they did a revamp of this book with quality writers like they did with Gen X before canceling or Bendis w/ Avengers or with "fill in blank" the Academy could shine. I've just think poor characterization, writing, plots, etc. has disgraced Morrison's work Wedons's work and "fill in the blanks" work.

But what do I know… right?

Elixir

03-12-2007, 09:19 PM

I stopped buying this shortly after they finished killing a big bunch of kids.

It wasn't the same after the cast I liked was dead. I figured I wouldn't last long after Wallflower's death . . .

But Wallflower was the only main cast member killed. Icarus to lesser extent. Tag was supporting and the others on the bus were background at best, only a few even had names, and would have been going off into depowered limbo anyway. The remaining cast is varied, exciting, visually interesting and are playing really well off of each other...there's a spark that wasn't there before.

CaptainCanad

03-12-2007, 09:23 PM

with the Wolvie knock-off getting ungodly amounts of face time
Before "Mercury Falling," she did very little apart from slice and dice; she hardly ever talked.

She is, in fact, the biggest character on the series in terms of marketability (look at the sales for her own limited series, which are actually significantly higher than the regular series' sales), so using her on covers and such makes sense. But, really, her role in the actual stories has been pretty ordinary overall, certainly no different than most of the other castmembers.

Elixir

03-12-2007, 09:34 PM

Wel
1- the Magik name was currently used by Amanda Sefton (Nightcrawlers old chick). She was in charge of Limbo and the soul armor/sword (and it seemed like she was doing a good job too). It was even a decent transition in a really messy area of continuity.

Why are you judging, second guessing and hating on a story that hasn't even come out yet? You have no idea what their plans are.

2- Even w/ Decimation, this isn't a good ensemble book (25-ish mutants) it's a crappy team book about 6( to10 if you're lucky) kids (hellions) with the Wolvie knock-off getting ungodly amounts of face time (look at the interview).

There are FOUR Hellions remaining. One of those is Dust who has been around since Morrison. Elixir, Surge, Prodigy, X-23 and Anole round up the current "main" cast and some of the other kids will be getting spotlight and stepping up next arc. If you still refer to X-23 as the "Wolvie knock off" then you really don't know anything about her. And it's only the current arc in which she has featured more prominently, before that she had nothing resembling "ungodly amounts of face time" and infact was considerably less involved than some of her co stars.

3- "this book and these characters stand shoulder to shoulder with each and every X-book out there" if by shoulder to shoulder they are referencing a lopsided hunchback with one shoulder below the left glut cheek ... sure

Well it's my favourite by far so...

I'm sure if they did a revamp of this book with quality writers like they did with Gen X before canceling or Bendis w/ Avengers

These guys are quality writers, they've mixed the esptablished characters many have grown to love with exciting situations and scenarios to make for a really good, fun, action packed book which still has enough teen drama in it to cover all bases and like it or not, Marvel are really digging what these guys are doing right now and seem to be giving the book a big push.

...the Academy could shine. I've just think poor characterization, writing, plots, etc. has disgraced Morrison's work Wedons's work and "fill in the blanks" work.

Uh, for one it isn't an "Academy" anymore, that part of the name was dropped over a year ago, there's about enough kids left for a "class". Secondly, what's Morrison got to do with anything? His students were supporting characters and only Dust is on the cast from his days. And HOW do you figure WHEDON is being disgraced?! These kids all existed before he even started writing Astonishing.

But what do I know… right?

You said it ;)

motteditor

03-12-2007, 10:36 PM

Before "Mercury Falling," she did very little apart from slice and dice; she hardly ever talked.

She is, in fact, the biggest character on the series in terms of marketability (look at the sales for her own limited series, which are actually significantly higher than the regular series' sales), so using her on covers and such makes sense. But, really, her role in the actual stories has been pretty ordinary overall, certainly no different than most of the other castmembers.

Agreed, as usual, Capt. I dislike Wolverine Girl as much as anyone, but the writers have generally done a nice job integrating her into this book and NOT making it Wolverine Girl and her Uncanny X-Friends.

ryanrhome

03-12-2007, 11:09 PM

if they are part of this summer's big event, kill more people off please and not repower them just for the sake of doing. Like bring back Apocalypse for the sake of it. Evil is needed in this world according to that retard Cable.

Japareese Psylocke?
God, I dunno how that thing even got started other than Jim Lee had a design of a female he probably was drawing for a while and Claremont liked it.

Kill off all Claremeont's horrid post-Uncanny #183 creations..PLEASE!

Wow there are a lot of hateful things bouncing around this thread. This one I quoted baffles me...who mentioned Claremont? Psylocke switched bodies in the late 80's...it was almost 20 years ago...if you're still sore about it, I don't think anyone here can really help you. Also, not sure if "japareese" was typo or a dig, but if it was the latter than congrats for being racist and disparaging to the mentally handicapped in a single short post.

This whole campaign to get people to stop buying the book (I saw a post above saying "Don't read this book if you haven't yet" or something along those lines) is weird to me: if you don't like it, I understand you not wanting to buy it. But if I do like it, what does it hurt you if I read it? If other people want to try it, let them make up their own minds.

I liked the Nunzio and Christina's run..I really did! I like this run...I really do! I have been excited about this book for the first time in a long time though. I get the feeling that for once, the next generation has a chance of making a smooth transition to full fledged X-Men. The only person in the history of young-X-Men-in-training that made it straight from school to the big leagues was Chamber. Cannonball and Husk made it eventually though. The point is, I'm loving this book. I hope these guys continue to write it for a long time.

silverbolt

03-13-2007, 12:37 AM

YOU KNOW WHAT? I'm totally against this book because of all the crap the team has been through since Grant Morrisson was writing it.
I mean come on, its like the team is completely different.
who are these characters? NOT the ones Grant was writing, I TELL U!
blame it on him. he started it.

...

...

what? who?
:o

cookepuss

03-13-2007, 02:15 AM

I read New X-Men threads like this and I laugh and laugh and laugh.... and laugh again.

I wonder what a New Mutants thread would've looked like if the internet existed back in the 80's.

"WTF? Louise Simonson is a hack! Bring back Claremont."
"How could they bring on Warlock? Hello!!!! This is supposed to be a MUTANT book. No freakin' aliens."
"Gawd!!!! I'm sick of reading 'Magik & Her Amazing Friends'. Bring back Karma. Original NM only."
"I dropped this book after they killed Doug. Who the hell is Boom Boom?"
"Bret Blevins WHO? Bah!!! Give me McLeod any day."
"Time Travel?!?! Hello!!! This is not 'Back to the Future'."
"Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaah!"

:) :D

Honestly. B**ch and moan all you like. That's your right. Just know one thing. Like it or not, the only thing predictable in the X-Men universe is change.

Vol2's New Mutant's didn't keep the spirit of the Vol1 book. The school dynamic was nice. The fact that they felt like teenagers was nice. Unfortunately, the first 2 years of the book didn't give us anything resembling "X-Men: The Next Generation." That's what the Vol1 New Mutants were all about. Had GenX not been so far removed from the center of action by being placed in Boston, they might've been too. (Lots of reasons, creatively, why THAT book tanked, but that's another thread.)

If Vol #1 of "New Mutants" is holy ground, let's examine it to see what the new book has to live up to. Let's look at THEIR first 40 issues and see how much of a normal teenaged life these kids led.

- In the original New Mutants GN, Professor X had no intention of creating a new team. In light of the X-Men's apparent death, he was reluctant to even start teaching new students. By the end of the GN, they were facing a freaking member of the Hellfire Club.
- Issue #2 of the ongoing, they were facing a Sentinel.
- Issue #8, they were halfway across the globe and dealing with a "lost" civilization.
- Issues #14 & #15, they were fighting for their lives against a demon and dealing with its mutant sorceress master.
- Issues #16 & #17, fighting against their Hellfire Club tutored rivals
- Issues #18 - #19, dealing with a demon bear
- Issue #21, they greeted their new alien member, who would soon be followed by his star destroying daddy.
- Issues #26 - #29, the introduction of and battle with Xavier's psycho super mutant son Legion and his various multiple personalities.
- Issue #30 - #34, Karma is back, fat, and being mind controlled by Shadow King, who's bent on killing them all. PLUS There's some Secret Wars 2 stuff going on.
- Issue #35, Magneto takes over the team, which is never a good sign when you resort to THAT
- Issue #37 - #38, Beyonder kills the WHOLE team and then resurrects them to zombie-like tabula rasa states
- Issues #39 - #40, the school closes and the team merges with the Hellions.

PLUS..... Squeezed into that time frame, they also managed to travel to Asgard. Just a couple of issues more and they'd have to deal with time travel, an interstellar team-up with the Star Jammers, and a return fight with Legion.

Looking back on it this way, can you really believe that the Weir/DeFilippis run was really in the spirit of the New Mutants? The book was fun, but it was freakin' "Dawson's Creek" with mutants.

Yost & Kyle have given us a book where these characters face danger at every turn, just like the original New Mutants. They're giving us a book where nothing is predictable and anybody can die or turn traitor, just like the original New Mutants. They see the inside of classes, but are never sheltered from the reality that comes from being the next generation of X-Men. Again, just like the original New Mutants.

About the only things significantly different in how they tell their stories than how Claremont or Simonson did are in pacing and body count. Those things make sense in a 21st century take on the New Mutants.

Marvel's books work in much more trade friendly arcs nowadays. Gone are the days of 2 issue life altering stories. Everything now is either 4 or 6 parts. That's a sad reality of the business end. I'm sure that if they could, they'd cram in as much as Chris & Weezie did in the old days.

As far as the body count goes, these guys know how to tell an action story and they do it quite well. They've upped the ante not just for shock value, but to better illustrate the dangers of the post-HoM's "brave new world." Apart from X-Factor, they're the only X-book to really do that and do it well. With that danger comes death. Even kids can die. Was it gratuitous? Maybe. Was it necessary? Certainly. It shows that the enemy has gotten bolder. It shows that extinction isn't just a word. It's a mortal fear and a daily reminder of why the X-Men need to fight on.

Give this book a chance. Really. These characters are every bit as lovable and memorable as the original New Mutants were in the 80's. Kyle & Yost are extraordinary talents. Read the X-23 limited series' to see what I mean. These guys have only had control of the book for little more than a year. 16 issues this week actually. That's such a VERY short period of time in the grand scheme. the New Mutants Vol1 didn't hit its stride until Magik rolled around, which was 14-15 issues in.

Factor in the fact that Kyle & Yost have to write in a decompressed fashion thanks to editorial edicts that demand rigid arcs. Their 16 issue might only amount to 9 or 10 in the old school storytelling design. Not their fault, but a valid point when considering how much they've done with their 1st 16 issue compared to Vol1's first 16. (I'm not a fan of the structured, trade friendly arc format btw. It's artificial and wholly inorganic storytelling. It's counter-productive, imho.)

Besides, it takes time to build and re-build a book, especially when they've had to run cleanup on the old stuff that didn't work. They're not destroying for the sake of destroying. They've destroyed, knowing full well that stronger characters will rise from the ashes. ... Just like the original New Mutants. Personally, I agree with Yost that 25 character is WAY too many. The book should have no more than half that. They still have lots of clean up to do.

For those that hate the fact that more Hellions survived than New Mutants, it's more about aesthetics than anything else. The Hellions had flashier powers. Comics are a visual medium. It's a lot more exciting to show that a character is strong or has claws than it is showing that a character has super stink. Plus, the fact that the characters weren't so straight laced also made them more interesting. Conflict makes for interesting drama. The Hellions LS proved in 4 issues that they were the keepers.

BTW. to anybody who thinks that it's bad writing if you have to flesh out characters in a LS, as was done with X-23, just reflect back on the 80's New Mutants run. They did it too. They fleshed out their characters in Fallen Angels, Magik, X-Terminators, & even Firestar. It's not bad writing. It's just a side effect of dealing with a large cast. It's a LS or a series of solo issue that risk breaking the flow of the arc.

Cryptic

03-13-2007, 06:18 AM

If you think about it, Illyana pretty much drove the plot for the original New Mutants through almost every story. Both times Emma Frost tried to steal the students, it was Illyana that escaped and made resistance possible. Finding Prof. X in deep space to defeat the Magus, Illyana. Every time they snuck out to do something to the Hellions, with Lila Cheney, or to rescue Birdbrain, it was Illyana. Dealings with the Beyonder, revenge against Freedom Force, confronting their future selves and what they could become, etc. She was a big part of Magneto's failures and triumphs when he attempted to become their teacher. Even when she wasn't central to the plot or making it possible to put the characters where they needed to be, there was the Illyana subplot.

That's not to say the other characters were useless or unlikeable... I liked them all, for the most part. However, not just in teleportation powers but also in personality, she really was the driving force behind the whole thing for a good long while. She provided a good deal of the tension and conflict, got the team into various situations by being stubborn or vengeful, etc. If she wasn't getting them there, she was the reason they were there... and usually it was both.

While it's probably for the best that she avoided the worst of the late 90's trends, killing her off was a major mistake. From what I've read since, the de-aging thing was never meant to last very long and that was more of an editorial decision.

I hope the current regime at Marvel can appreciate her potential this time.

STL

03-13-2007, 08:46 AM

STL

03-13-2007, 08:50 AM

Honestly. B**ch and moan all you like. That's your right.

Back at you, mate.

0bsessions

03-13-2007, 09:54 AM

Julian saved Nori from Nimrod, Josh and Julian were completely friendly to each other. Rockslide says that he likes Nori. I could go on, but you asked for only one example.

Then again I like Linkin Park, so maybe it's just me full of teen angst.

Saving someone's life doesn't mean that you're friends. Julian's not evil, he's just a dink.

Josh and Julian have ALWAYS been kind of friendly. There was a point in the early run where he wanted to land on the Hellions squad, but got stuck on the New Mutants.

Rockslide's always been relatively neutral, kind of a bully. Although, I said NATURAL AND LOGICAL progressions, not out of the blue crap that makes no sense on either way.

You've still yet to give me a valid example that wasn't established well before Yost took over.

0bsessions

03-13-2007, 09:57 AM

Kyle and Yost, at first seemed a bit trigger happy with all the killing. But the fact remains is, that they killed off the useless and boring characters that had powers that other more established characters already had.

Umm, come again? They killed off Tag (Very original power) and kept Hellion (The eight millionth telekinetic to join an X-Team). They depowered David (Similar to Doug Ramsey in the basest sense, but much more useful in a fight) and brought in Wolverine Jr. How the Hell is that killing off the useless and boring ones with redundant powers when they killed off the interesting and original ones IN FAVOR of characters who were ripoffs of established archetypes.

0bsessions

03-13-2007, 10:18 AM

And also incredibly boring to draw and extremely difficult to use effectively. C'mon, having Wallflower take down the Hulk with smell powers? Does that make any lick of sense (even if it was a training exercise)? The writers had to go out of their way to make her useful and interesting, it's like trying to find stuff to do with Angel that doesn't involve scouting ahead.

Just like Laurie, Angel has always been at his best when people get past that stupid and baseless assumption. A proper sense of the capabilities of a power is the first step towards utilizing it to a useful extent. I think Angel's pointed it out in comics before: did you know a buzzard can break a man's arm with the strength of one of its wings? How much larger than a buzzard is Angel? Plus, he's trained at it so extensively that he's an expert combatant in the air.

Laurie's powers, while taken pretty much entirely from Stacy X (Who I'd rather not remember, to begin with), can be incredibly useful when applied correctly. The Hulk scenario made perfect sense. The only way to really, and logically, beat the Hulk is to calm him down. Release the proper pheremones and that'll happen. As far as how boring they are to draw: it's never the character that's the problem, just the creator. Whoever it was that drew the House of M arc did a fine job of properly exhibiting her powers.

He also had no skills. How exactly was he supposed to get to an enemy's leader, which would arguably be the most dangerous and well protected individual in an encounter? They'd have to turn him into some kind of cliched ninja to make him useful in a fight, his power is far too situational. Why do you think they gave Rogue flight and super strength?

Hence why they were broken into squads. In the original Hellion lineup, they could have either Jay or Julian get him to the leader. It's all a matter of balancing the right team. Beyond that, when were the young squads EVER supposed to be a combat unit to begin with? These are all kids and Yost has pretty much run in the opposite direction. These kids were training for two years with their powers to get a measure of control, ALL of them. So, the smartest thing to do is only train 20% of the students how to defend themselves? Makes sense to me. :rolleyes:

I definately agree with Icarus, the emo version of Angel. But Wallflower is basically a younger version of Stacey X, and Tag is a more useless version of Rogue pre-Ms. Marvel days. They're really only as original as you're willing to allow them to be.

They're as original as the writer allows them to be, actually. I still don't see HOW you're relating Tag to Rogue. It's a senseless and baseless comparrison. For one, Tag's powers are fully controlled. You're grasping at straws to make his power unoriginal. Wallflower, I can understand (I never much liked her to begin with).

The thing is, though, most of these original powers were dumped for the sake of common powers I can read in any of the other SIX X-Titles. I liked New X-Men for the fact it was different from the others. Now, they've removed the teaching angle, they've removed the teenage drama and they've simply made it too adult. Adult is nice and I like it in books, but not books about freakin' teenagers. That's what I love about Runaways or Young Avengers. They don't read like they're about adults in teenage bodies, they read like actual teenagers. We've got plenty of books about adult super heroes, I like a nice teenage superbook now and again, but this one's trying to fit the mold of the adult books too much and that takes away any hope of originality.

cookepuss

03-13-2007, 10:19 AM

They killed off Tag (Very original power)
Original to be sure, but it might've gotten old quickly. He could've been quite cool. He could've been a major suckfest. No knowing for sure now though. With the previous writing team, there were just too many characters to flesh out even the broadest detail of his character. As such, he was a prime target for elimination.

They depowered David
Actually, I think that David is much more interesting now than he was before. Like Doug before him, he's now got that insight that comes from being the outsider on the team. Like Xander on Buffy, he's the one person who logically should hide in a corner during a fight, but somehow represents the heart of the team. It's interesting that they chose to depower him. Now, the danger of the X-world is that much more frightening. Here's this guy who, for all intents & purposes, is Joe Q. Normal, yet chooses to remain n the world of the extraordinary even at his own peril. It reminds me of how Charlotte used to hang with the X-Men, body armor and street smarts in tow. Besides, Marvel needs to keep characters like David. The last thing the team needs is another stereotyped angry black guy like the New Warrior's Rage. David's an intelligent, well adjusted teen with no real issues apart from being on the outside looking in. In comics, a minority character like him is a rarity.

Back at you, mate.
Well, I didn't mean it in a bad way. Opinions are like @$$#0!3$. Everyone has one and they all stink. One opinion is as valid as the next where there's something as subjective as this stuff.

If you think about it, Illyana pretty much drove the plot for the original New Mutants through almost every story.
Very true. And you forgot one. Magik was the driving force behind that massive Inferno crossover that swept the whole 616. Even though they had stuff like Mr. Sinister in play, the whole X-over started and ended with her. I for, for one, welcome New X-Men as being a major part of the next X-men event. It's a crying shame that the "junior books" have gotten the shaft in the last decade by having their role downplayed.

On a related note, I'm surprised that nobody remembers the carnage of the Mutant Massacre. THAT was a blood bath. It even led to Angel's crucification, wing amputation, and eventual attempted suicide. Yost & Kyle's little killing spree is pretty minor compared to what Claremont put the X-Men through in the 80's.

Elixir

03-13-2007, 10:26 AM

Whatever.

This book is a pile of you-know-what. Since House of M, all this book has been is a dark, gritty poor excuse for a tenn-book. There's little fun in it which a young teen book should have. And adventure? Not even close.
.

What do you call stealing the X jet, taking it through the old caved in tunnel system, escaping from the sentinel guards, battling lots of robots, fighting Nimrod and saving Forge if not adventure? And X-23 and Hellions little excursion? And then there's the little thing called Quest for Magik coming up....

It's a poor excuse for a teen book?

Teens? Check

Angst? Check

Arguments? Check

Relationships? Check

Drama? Check?

High stakes? Check.

And Rockslide brings plenty of fun.

Umm, come again? They killed off Tag (Very original power)

And very little personality. Not to mention his powers were very limited.

and kept Hellion (The eight millionth telekinetic to join an X-Team).

Jean, Rachel, Psylocke, Cable...ok that makes Hellion the fifth. Telekinesis is a very versatile power and everyone uses theirs in different ways like Psylockes sword. Personality is just as important too, and Julian has bags of it.

They depowered David (Similar to Doug Ramsey in the basest sense, but much more useful in a fight)

David is still playing a large role in the book and his natural smarts are proving hugely useful to the team. His having no powers makes him more interesting to me and I've seen loads of people say they prefer him under C&C

and brought in Wolverine Jr. How the Hell is that killing off the useless and boring ones with redundant powers when they killed off the interesting and original ones IN FAVOR of characters who were ripoffs of established archetypes.

Wallflower had mood altering/pheremone powers. Empath? Stacy X? Not original. And having someone who can just end any fight by putting the enemy to sleep? Yeah sounds like a real hoot. No thanks. Sofias wind powers are very similar to Julians TK but far more limited.

If X-23 is "Wolverine Jr" then I guess that made Wind Dancer "Storm Jr", Icarus "Angel Jr", Wallflower "Empath Jr" and Tag "Karma Jr".

Your argument is completely redundant.

Josh and Julian have ALWAYS been kind of friendly. There was a point in the early run where he wanted to land on the Hellions squad, but got stuck on the New Mutants.

You don't know what you're talking about. They were friendly in the beginning of New Mutants when Josh first came to the school (before squads even existed) but when Julian found out Josh was briefly a Reaver he attacked him and the two have been bitter enemies ever since. Issue #34 was the first time they've spoken to each other in a civil tone in 40+ issues.

cookepuss

03-13-2007, 10:34 AM

Yeah. Rockslide has become quite a fun character and not just a Thing clone. Good to see that they're doing something with him.

Actually, imho, New X-Men ranks up there along with X-Factor and Astonishing as the only 3 X-books that even remotely know how to tell a story. Comparatively, Adjectiveless and Uncanny have been total garbage since the new creative teams came on board. (12 parts for that Vulcan storyline and what do they have to show? What of the children of the vault? Zzzzz....) Again, imo, New X-Men manages to do remain the best X-book you're not reading. Along with Teen Titans, it's my favorite teen book of the last 5 years. Even Runaways has lost its shine a bit, at least in the 2nd season.

Elixir

03-13-2007, 10:45 AM

Nice to know that you can't make interesting characters on your own. You have to base their personalities off existing ones.

A+ Writer! :)

Oh for...

Julian has existed, personality and all in this title since #2 of New Mutants. Long before the new writers, long before Lost. Yost was just making a COMPARISON to Sawyer for Skottie Young to get a brief idea for his new design.

Julian actually shares only a little in common with Sawyer, he's a much more moral person as is evidenced very clearly in the current arc.

motteditor

03-13-2007, 11:50 AM

Whatever.
This book is a pile of you-know-what. Since House of M, all this book has been is a dark, gritty poor excuse for a tenn-book. There's little fun in it which a young teen book should have. And adventure? Not even close.
And the problem is everytime I think about giving the book a try again, I read a review about how grim and dark this book is. You don't need to kill characters to create a sense of 'danger'. The writer should be able to create an atmosphere where the reader cares enough about the characters to worry about the dangers that they face them. It' lazy writing.
Anyway, I won't be back until the present writers go or there's a change in direction of this title.

Funny, I think I've written reviews of (almost?) every issue since the change -- and while it certainly did go overboard with the death at the start -- that's definitely not been the message I've been sending lately.

Yost said it in the interview, but I think it's clear from reading the book how much these writers liked the original Uncanny X-Men and New Mutants. The book is incredibly nostalgic -- I mean, think of who the first stories have used: Rev. Stryker, Forge, Nimrod, Selense. Then there was that Danger Cave scenario with flashback to classic X-Men moments.

I still don't think the book is perfect, but I think it feels like the old-school xbooks more than any other title right now (well, maybe not Astonishing, but the delays on that title have just destroyed any sense of story and/or momentum). I think that's even more true as Yost and Kyle have settled in and, despite Cookiepuss' sentiments, are getting better at mixing up their arcs. I thought that first story went a little too long (which added to complaints about the killing) but since then they've done a couple four-issue arcs and the standalone with Wither.

As for the characters, well, everyone needs to decide what character they like on their own. Personally, I thought W&D did a better job with the Hellions than they did with the New Mutants. Maybe I just liked the characters more (I thought their powers were more original for the most part), but the Hellions mini was the best story I've read from the pair. I thought Kyle & Yost in general did a good job picking the characters they wanted to carry forward with. Yes, the change was very jarring -- and I certainly understand loyalty to an older concept -- but the current issues are a lot of fun. I would guess it will be the first, or one of the very first, books I read tomorrow.

These are all kids and Yost has pretty much run in the opposite direction. These kids were training for two years with their powers to get a measure of control, ALL of them. So, the smartest thing to do is only train 20% of the students how to defend themselves? Makes sense to me.

Yeah, that was definitely one of the confusing things, which was surrounding their first issues. Heck, there are still other students there who apparently weren't ever in the 198 ghetto and presumably they're still getting training. I've just kind of assumed the current group was singled out for special training to become X-Men in the future, while the rest are getting the basics of controlling their powers.

They're as original as the writer allows them to be, actually. I still don't see HOW you're relating Tag to Rogue. It's a senseless and baseless comparrison. For one, Tag's powers are fully controlled. You're grasping at straws to make his power unoriginal. Wallflower, I can understand (I never much liked her to begin with).

Yeah, I always equated Wither and Rogue. Hence Wither seeming awful dull to me, though linking him with Selene is interesting enough.

The last thing the team needs is another stereotyped angry black guy like the New Warrior's Rage.

Hey! Don't diss Rage. He went way beyond angry stereotype over the course of the Warriors.

Julian actually shares only a little in common with Sawyer, he's a much more moral person as is evidenced very clearly in the current arc.

Plus, no funny nicknames.

motteditor

03-13-2007, 12:07 PM

On a completely different note, I wish Matt had asked how or whether this storyline will tie into the Mystic Arcana issue about Illyana.

ryanrhome

03-13-2007, 01:29 PM

Hence why they were broken into squads. In the original Hellion lineup, they could have either Jay or Julian get him to the leader. It's all a matter of balancing the right team. Beyond that, when were the young squads EVER supposed to be a combat unit to begin with? These are all kids and Yost has pretty much run in the opposite direction. These kids were training for two years with their powers to get a measure of control, ALL of them. So, the smartest thing to do is only train 20% of the students how to defend themselves? Makes sense to me. :rolleyes:

This has been explained quite a bit. All of the students are being trained in their powers. The teachers have picked what they saw as the students with the most potential to additionally train to be X-Men. I think of it like the Honors classes. It's not like "hey everyone else, thanks for playing but you'll never be X-Men". It's saying that as of now, none of the other students are ready assuming they even want to. You could think of it like the old Alpha Flight ranks where there was Beta and Gamma flights. Alpha Flight is the X-Men. Beta Flight is New X-Men. The other students are in Gamma Flight...for now, maybe forever. I actually think it is a completely logical and realistic process that would make perfect sense were this situation to occur in the real world.

Matopi

03-13-2007, 01:44 PM

I was no particular fan of Christina and Nunzio's run-- too crowded, not enough focus-- but the the book stands as a shining example of how not have creators change hands. Really, the fact that about half the interview were exchanges along the line of:

"Do you think you maybe killed too many members of the old team?"
"Oh I don't know."
"Do you think that perhaps older fans of the book were insulted?"
"The event was called Decimation."
"Are you sure that your decisions make sense?"
"Sure they do!"

Kind of tells you everything you need to know.

Elixir

03-13-2007, 02:55 PM

And everything you need to know is:

The new direction and revised cast revitalised the book and makes for a far more exciting and engaging experience. The best characters have been kept around, in terms of look, powers and personality.

The dead Wallflower, Icarus, Tag...X-Men of the future? I think not.

si, rodrigo

03-13-2007, 03:09 PM

Saving someone's life doesn't mean that you're friends. Julian's not evil, he's just a dink.

Josh and Julian have ALWAYS been kind of friendly. There was a point in the early run where he wanted to land on the Hellions squad, but got stuck on the New Mutants.

Rockslide's always been relatively neutral, kind of a bully. Although, I said NATURAL AND LOGICAL progressions, not out of the blue crap that makes no sense on either way.

You've still yet to give me a valid example that wasn't established well before Yost took over.

Right before Yost took over (not at the beginning of the run) the new mutants and the hellions were always bickering (that includes Josh and Julian). So that's a change. And Rockslide was probably the most interested one in the petty fighting. If you say Rockslide was neutral, Cess was neutral I'm guessing the fighting came from Emo Josh and Pacifist Dust right? Oh wait there is still Julian..ahh but no. He doesn't fight either right? There are many examples of how characters have changed but if you are trying to make them seem out of the blue, they will always be that for you. So I'm not wasting my time.

Matopi

03-13-2007, 03:43 PM

I'm not disputing whether Yost has a good grasp on which characters are "the best" or not, or if he has a vision for his book, etc.

Clearly, old readers of the book were alienated by how quickly the book was changed, and the way in which it was done. For crissakes, half the interview, ostensibly about the future of the book, is spent revisiting these choices. The book was, and is, colored by this decision. The remainder of Yost's run is going to live in its shadow.

And to what end? The book could have chosen the same final cast, and gotten there without losing as many of its old readers. It could even have done this while managing to kill off the same old characters, if changes had been made more slowly, and with perhaps a bit more deference.

Is the book, strictly speaking, better now? I think yes, although IMO it was quite mediocre before, and it's honestly not amazing now. But it is improved, I agree. But the improvement came at a cost-- evaporating a lot of good will toward the title and toward Yost. And this was all, really, kind of needless.

Again, I don't want to particularly villify Yost here. I have the impression, frankly, from Yost's generally neutral responses, that the slash and burn strategy was either dictated by editorial, or at the very least, Yost has come to regret it himself.

But I stand my original statement: this title stands as a shining example of how NOT to change creators.

0bsessions

03-13-2007, 04:17 PM

And very little personality. Not to mention his powers were very limited.

He was a background character. Read New X-Men: Hellions. He got some great moments in there. A good bit in the Too Much Information arc, too.

Jean, Rachel, Psylocke, Cable...ok that makes Hellion the fifth. Telekinesis is a very versatile power and everyone uses theirs in different ways like Psylockes sword. Personality is just as important too, and Julian has bags of it.

Five and eight aren't that different of a number. Telekinetics are a dime a dozen in the X-Verse and we didn't need a new one. As for personality, Hellion's got A personality, but a rather trite and annoying one. I've had more than enough of the "cocky bad with a heart of Gold" crap. I liked him better as just a plain old, every day jerk.

David is still playing a large role in the book and his natural smarts are proving hugely useful to the team. His having no powers makes him more interesting to me and I've seen loads of people say they prefer him under C&C

He's been turned even more into Cypher Version 3.0 at this stage. His power added a very interesting dimension to the team and his mere presence is a complete contradiction to the entire alleged premise of this squad. I love David and all, but I also love logical plotting.

Wallflower had mood altering/pheremone powers. Empath? Stacy X? Not original. And having someone who can just end any fight by putting the enemy to sleep? Yeah sounds like a real hoot. No thanks. Sofias wind powers are very similar to Julians TK but far more limited.

Like I said, personally not huge on Laurie, never said the previous run was batting 1.000, just that I feel it was superior to the current run in pretty much every way. As for Sofia, though: limited is good. With how overpowered they've made Julian, who really needs a squad? As they've done an effective job of proving in the current arc, this squad is essentially "Wolverine & Phoenix & Friends." Every other character is essentially auxiliary and unnecessary when two members can take on any opposition they face.

If X-23 is "Wolverine Jr" then I guess that made Wind Dancer "Storm Jr", Icarus "Angel Jr", Wallflower "Empath Jr" and Tag "Karma Jr".

[QUOTE]

Let me correct myself: X-23 is more like Wolverine minus any semblance of a personality. Her powers are outright identical. Other than controlling wind and being a bit snobby, Sofia and Storm have no similarities and this required Sofia to be a bit more creative with her winds. Icarus I won't disagree on, but that was an Austen throwaway that they got stuck with by editorial. Wallflower, once again, not my favorite, though personally I would've preferred her as a villain. As for the last one, can someone explain to me the utter fascination with people trying to associate Tag's power with other powers that barely share even the vaguest of similarities?

[QUOTE=Elixir]

Your argument is completely redundant.

[QUOTE]

Because I keep having to repeat the same crap over and over since a handful of people don't seem to be willing to get it.

[QUOTE=Elixir]

You don't know what you're talking about. They were friendly in the beginning of New Mutants when Josh first came to the school (before squads even existed) but when Julian found out Josh was briefly a Reaver he attacked him and the two have been bitter enemies ever since. Issue #34 was the first time they've spoken to each other in a civil tone in 40+ issues.

Friendly is an understatement, they were practically best friends. As I recall, they started to patch things up after the big Rahne mess.

Floodnado

03-13-2007, 06:28 PM

I'll give it another shot come the Magik arc since it seems like there are plans for two of the characters I've liked a lot from the times they first showed up (Anole and Pixie).

But like has been said, Killarama from the first arc or two left a real bad taste in my mouth, especially given that they wound up offing the best developed character in the entire book (and my personal favorite), Wallflower. Like was said, they could've easily arrived at the same team without the needless violence and what gets me is the increasinly worse justification for it. First it was "Well, see, they have to grow up some time." and now it's "Well, it SAYS Decimation right there in the title!". That's stupid. Just admit that it seemed like a good idea at the time and that looking back, you can tell it's caused way more trouble for the book than it should have.

But then, I'm sort of bitter because Nunzio's and Christina's run was what got me reading monthly titles in the first placed and the killing off of all the characters in the first few stories seemed to be a metaphorical killing of everything I had enjoyed about the book.

Still, like I said, I'll give them another chance with the Magik arc.

cookepuss

03-13-2007, 07:07 PM</