CAPTAIN AMERICA #25 - FROM THE SALES SIDE OF THINGS

[MattBrady]

<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/CapAmerica/DDream/CAPA025_dc_t.jpg" border="0" align="right"><b>SPOILERS FOR CAPTAIN AMERICA #25</b>

Yeah - <b>Captain America #25</b>.

While it’s clearly the comic that has made the largest media splash of 2007, <b>Captain America #25</b> is also headed toward being the most controversial in terms of how it was solicited to retailers and subsequently, available to readers.

The short version:

Well, first, the <i>shorter</i> version - if you're being tempted by a <b.Captain America #25</b> with a $30 tag, don't be. According to Marvel, more are on the way, and should be arriving next week in comic shops.

And remember - delayed gratification is good for the soul.

Okay - back to what went down:

Given the changes in Marvel’s scheduling, due to <b>Civil War</b> slipping behind schedule, <b>Captain America #25</b> was originally solicited with Marvel titles that were due to ship in February, but instead shipped last week. At the time the solicitations for February titles came out, Marvel was in full swing of blocking the actual text of the solicitations with SHEILD-themed “Access Denied” banners which prevented readers from being able to read the text. Even when Marvel released the previously “classified” solicitations in a special edition, the description of <b>Captain America #25</b> left the story vague, saying only that the story was one not to miss and its ramifications would be felt for the coming year. As a result, the contents of the issue were a mystery to readers, as was the regular cover (though there are reports that the cover image to issue #25 - showing Cap’s hand on the newspaper - slipped out in some in-house material).

Retailers were likewise kept in the dark on the issue’s contents, however, along with Editor in Chief Joe Quesada and others, Marvel Sr. VP of Sales David Gabriel urged retailers to order heavily on <b>Captain America #25</b>, suggesting that there could be media attention on the issue, noting that, in his view, ordering at <b>Civil War</b> level numbers would be a safe bet.

Some retailers did that, others didn’t, and there are currently several locations, such as ICV2 (http://www.icv2.com./index.html), where retailers are venting their frustrations and anger at how Marvel handled the situation, how it appears that some retailers knew about the issue in advance and were able to inflate their prices (sometimes tenfold) to a demanding public, and, overall, how demand quickly overwhelmed supply.

We spoke with Gabriel about the issue, how it was handled, and how it’s continuing to be handled.

<b>Newsarama</b>: There seems to be some issues with the solicitation of the issue in regards to what retailers knew and when. Point blank, then - did any retailers know the story of the issue prior to ordering, or were all told that this was a "major event..." as the “classified” solicits showed?

<b>David Gabriel</b>: No retailers were told anything other than the "classified" aspect of the event. Diamond did not know what was happening as our production schedule that they receive also had the vague titles and information. First look books did not go out on these issues, solicitation copy was checked and double checked, handbook and spotlight entries were double and triple checked, on sale dates of books that contained spoilers were shifted, in short all the places that we have accidentally leaked out info in the past we kept a close lid on. <i>However</i>, we did have one slight slip up which went out to the entire comics industry, but no one ever caught on. Feel free to hunt for that.

<b>NRAMA</b>: As the order numbers came in, what was your reaction in regards to whether or not retailers got the message? Did you make the decision then that the issue was going to need to be overprinted?

<b>DG</b>: We knew all along that the issue needed a strong overprint, <i>because</i> we had to keep the info classified. It's not really fair to hide the solicits, then not print enough to meet expected demand. We had no idea that the media would hit as hard as it did, and let's be honest if something big had happened in the world, we might not have received the coverage that we did. The overprint had been noted in the weekly Marvel Mailer that goes out to all retailers.

<b>NRAMA</b>: Obviously, you’re not going to give numbers, but just in terms of a ballpark - how large was the overprint on <b>Captain America #25</b> compared to its initial orders?

<b>DG</b>: Let's just say we did the largest ever.

<b>NRAMA</b>: What has the reorder velocity been for the issue?

<b>DG</b>: This book has the highest reorder velocity that we - or Diamond - has ever seen. I don't actually see an hour to hour report so I can't tell you anything more specific than that.

<b>NRAMA</b>: Still, there are a limited number of copies left for reorder, so at this rate, when do you predict the supply being exhausted?

<b>DG</b>: I hate to predict...but I think it may be soon. No one, not Marvel, not retailers, not fans...knew what the media impact would be for this title. But let me state, that just like all of comics, because publishers & distributors may be out of the issue, does not mean that retailers are out... Regarding <b>Captain America #25</b>, <i>there are still copies available all across the country at regular prices</i>. And if your store is out now there’s more on the way.

<b>NRAMA</b>: In your view, how quickly will a second printing of the issue get rolling?

<b>DG</b>: Currently, there are no plans for that...this book should sell for a while now. However, if it is needed, then we will do it.

As we reported yesterday (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=104344), Diamond has issued a statement to retailers, explaining how reorders are being handled. Following is the notice that Diamond has sent to its accounts:

<i>In response to retailer and consumer demand for Marvel Comics’ landmark Captain America #25 (DEC062304D) – which has rapidly sold out in many locations – Diamond wishes to announce that a massive overprint of Captain America #25 will be available at its Memphis Star System hub on Friday evening, March 9!

Please Note: If you placed a back order for Captain America #25 by 12:00 p.m. EDT on Thursday, March 8, your backorder should fill without difficulty. However, you may convert your backorder to a direct ship reorder by contacting your Diamond Customer Service Representative. You must request this conversion no later than Monday, March 12 at 5:00 p.m. EST. If you do not convert your backorder by this deadline, your backorder will remain in force, and your quantities will arrive with your March 21 shipment.

Retailers should also note that mainstream attention on the event continues to escalate, with it scheduled to be featured on Comedy Central’s Colbert Report tonight at 11:30 p.m. EST. Additionally, the story has now been picked up by NPR, The New York Times, The Los Angeles Times and USAToday.com.

If you have additional questions regarding the availability of the issue, please contact your Diamond Customer Service Representative.</i>

Retailers speaking to Newsarama for clarification have said that the turnaround in reorders on this issue, if they arrive on Wednesday, is remarkable, in that it usually takes two weeks for reorders to reach stores.

On Monday, we’ll hear from a variety of retailers about the issue, how they found out, how they ordered, and how they made out.

[Sean Walsh]

So what's all this hoopla about anyway? They kill him or something? ;) :p

[SpyGuy]

My only (minor) gripe? Finding the Ed McGuinness variant cover in my pull instead of the more visually impressive standard cover, then not being able to swap it because of the sellout.

[J. Dincauze]

<img <i>However</i>, we did have one slight slip up which went out to the entire comics industry, but no one ever caught on. Feel free to hunt for that.


Does anyone have any idea what this is?

[erikthered25]

So what's all this hoopla about anyway? They kill him or something? ;) :p


Man I don't know. I think it's a case of folks not taking Marvel seriously enough. The retailers that order high were able to fill the orders those who did not they got burned cuz they only had 2 copies on the shelf.

Cuz if Marvel told me
Retailers were likewise kept in the dark on the issue’s contents, however, along with Editor in Chief Joe Quesada and others, Marvel Sr. VP of Sales David Gabriel urged retailers to order heavily on Captain America #25, suggesting that there could be media attention on the issue, noting that, in his view, ordering at Civil War level numbers would be a safe bet.


I would have ordered a crap load of the Cap since the suggested it would be as big as Civil War.

[maritimer]

He's a clone! ;)

[Tom Daylight]

The cover was in the back of #24. Is this what Djay is talking about?

[Ye Olde Iowa]

At the very least, I'm glad that Marvel did a massive overprint on this one. Yes, they could have warned retailers ahead of time, but given how the ordering system works and how chatty people are, informing retailers would have deadened the surprise and if this weren't a surprise it wouldn't get the media attention that it is now.

What I can't believe is the price gouging on this by some retailers, not to mention the amounts that people are willing to pay. I saw last night on eBay an auction was well over $200 for both covers. They weren't CGC graded either. That' s just insane.

Regardless, if it brings new readers in, I'm not going to argue. Instead, I'll just applaud Bru and Epting on a great issue.

[jaimeramirez]

I wonder what "thing that got through" he is talking about.

I keep thinking back to the New Avengers preview and Cap on the slab. Thought that was SO odd at the time. And it fueled a LOT of the speculation that he was dying around these parts, no?

Anyway. Good book by Brubaker.

JR

[TheGrayHulk]

It's funny how they keep putting "spoilers for Captain America #25" at the beginning of the article.

Yeah, they killed the poor bastard, doncha know that by now boy? :p

[lex luthor]

What I can't believe is the price gouging on this by some retailers, not to mention the amounts that people are willing to pay. I saw last night on eBay an auction was well over $200 for both covers. They weren't CGC graded either. That' s just insane.

The "ebayers" and the speculators are the only people who benefit from this event. Rather crappy situation to be in if your a retailer - you have no idea what the hub-bub is about yet you're expected to put in Civil War type order numbers for what they see as a non-event (and rightly so).

[FixerMX]

He's a clone! ;)

Would you call him Clap?

[razorwing77]

As a result, the contents of the issue were a mystery to readers, as was the regular cover (though there are reports that the cover image to issue #25 - showing Cap’s hand on the newspaper - slipped out in some in-house material).

Yeah, the cover image, sans handcuff, was printed in the "Next Issue!" box of #24.

[BlueBeetleIII]

Man I don't know. I think it's a case of folks not taking Marvel seriously enough. The retailers that order high were able to fill the orders those who did not they got burned cuz they only had 2 copies on the shelf.

Cuz if Marvel told me


I would have ordered a crap load of the Cap since the suggested it would be as big as Civil War.

No they said Order Civil War Numbers not it would be as big as Civil War.

So they ordered the number of they would have ordered during Civil War or they ordered what they were ordering of Civil War and doing well on. If you ordered 500 on civil war and that worked for you you would have ordered 500 Captain America. Now your Cap demand is 700. Then of course what happens if they said "Order Civil War levels" on everything? Should they listen. Then sit on issues that don't sell?

[vbartilucci]

I fear that retailers who didn't order massively are going to lose out long term. people who are just interested in CA will come in, hear you don't have it, and leave. People who are charging usurous prices will win short-term, but will draw back very few new customers.

I hope stores are taking names and numbers for those coming issues. And people need to realize that the books coming today ARE STILL FIRST PRINTING.

And the guys on ebay getting a hundred bucks an issue...well, the less said about them the better.

[tommyx]

Cap ain't dead. Didn't anybody read the Initiative #1? See the conversation between Ms Marvel and Spider-Woman...

[dalunt]

<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/CapAmerica/DDream/CAPA025_dc_t.jpg" border="0" align="right"><b>SPOILERS FOR CAPTAIN AMERICA #25</b>

Yeah - <b>Captain America #25</b>.

While it’s clearly the comic that has made the largest media splash of 2007, <b>Captain America #25</b> is also headed toward being the most controversial in terms of how it was solicited to retailers and subsequently, available to readers.

The short version:

Well, first, the <i>shorter</i> version - if you're being tempted by a <b.Captain America #25</b> with a $30 tag, don't be. According to Marvel, more are on the way, and should be arriving next week in comic shops.

And remember - delayed gratification is good for the soul.

Okay - back to what went down:



I KNEW I KNEW I KNEW!!!!

http://bloodsweat.blogspot.com

January 19 entry, I proclaimed that Captain America would be shot by Sharon Carter, Agent 13.

I am not a retailer but I did figure it out, and no one believed me!

The convo between Ms Marvel and Spiderwoman takes place BEFORE cap 25

[Heffaloo]

I can remember the media reaction to Superman's death. This is Captain America (almost as iconic), in friggin' war time. How could they have possibly not anticipated this kind of mainstream reaction? I call shennanigans.

[TheRay]

Cap ain't dead. Didn't anybody read the Initiative #1? See the conversation between Ms Marvel and Spider-Woman...

I wish I could've but my LCS didn't put a copy of it in my pull and it sold out! :(

[CapnSpandex]

While I can understand retailers being reticent to order high on a book simply based on Marvel hype (Decimation, anyone?) it is ultimately their fault. All they had to even do was cruise online to figure out that Quesada and the gang were heavily hinting this issue could be an even bigger seller than Civil War #7. They can't blame Marvel for their laziness and/or anti-Marvel bias.

[MattBrady]

Cap ain't dead. Didn't anybody read the Initiative #1? See the conversation between Ms Marvel and Spider-Woman...Old news - covered previously (http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=104091).

MattB

[rugbyburn]

is 52 backwards ....hmmmm ...

[dobieck]

No they said Order Civil War Numbers not it would be as big as Civil War.

So they ordered the number of they would have ordered during Civil War or they ordered what they were ordering of Civil War and doing well on. If you ordered 500 on civil war and that worked for you you would have ordered 500 Captain America. Now your Cap demand is 700. Then of course what happens if they said "Order Civil War levels" on everything? Should they listen. Then sit on issues that don't sell?

Well, they didn't lie did they?

[erikthered25]

No they said Order Civil War Numbers not it would be as big as Civil War.

So they ordered the number of they would have ordered during Civil War or they ordered what they were ordering of Civil War and doing well on. If you ordered 500 on civil war and that worked for you you would have ordered 500 Captain America. Now your Cap demand is 700. Then of course what happens if they said "Order Civil War levels" on everything? Should they listen. Then sit on issues that don't sell?

It's called taking a risk. Besides it was rumour Captain America was supposed to die, Marvel said to order Civil War type numbers, the daggone next box in 24 had a cover with blood on it. So even if they didn't kill him, they may have crippled him, which would still cause a media blitz...so in the long run those who refused to take a risk..we left out to dry and those who did take the risk were rewarded handsomely that's that way it goes sometimes.

I'm sure this was a rare announcement. Marvel almost never puts out the word that retailers should up their orders if something newsworthy wasn't gonna be in the book. They wouldn't go through all of the effort to tell the retailers to up their orders if something newsworthy wasn't in the book. In the end it's about putting two and two together and many retailers did not put two and two together so they had no copies to sell of the issue.

[Eddie Young]

Would you call him Clap?

Come on guys, lets reserve that name for my bitch ex-girlfriend.

[vbartilucci]

So they ordered the number of they would have ordered during Civil War or they ordered what they were ordering of Civil War and doing well on. If you ordered 500 on civil war and that worked for you you would have ordered 500 Captain America. Now your Cap demand is 700. Then of course what happens if they said "Order Civil War levels" on everything? Should they listen. Then sit on issues that don't sell?

In an industry where there's a major event every time you turn around, it's not a surprise that stores would react coolly to "hints" from the publisher that a book will be hot.

They're smart enough to overprint massively, and good for them. Its their benefit to sell as many copies as possible; they don't make any more if the LCS raises the price to 100 bucks.

Marvel COULD have put their money where their mouth was and made Cap#25 fully returnable. DC's doing it with Countdown, so people can really go long on it and push the hell out of it.

I think going returnable on certain books that the publisher really wants pushed (or expects a large demand but doesn't want to screw the stores if they're wrong) is a strong idea. It can't be done all the time, but it's a real sign to the stores that the company is standing behind the book.

Lessons were learned after the Death of Superman. The news stories broke three months too early, and NOBODY was ready for the response. DC was actually telling the news media "no comment" and to come back in 90 days. A lot of people came into stores looking for the book, were told it wasn't out yet, and never came back.

Marvel was exactly right to keep the surprise a secret, while still telling the industry that Something Big was going to happen.

[JDooley]

You could call the clone "Clapton" Kudos for Marvel for overprinting so we can all get 1st prints and not going back right away with a second print cover. Although I am sure they will at some point.

[BlueBeetleIII]

Well, they didn't lie did they?

Actually they did. They said order Civil War Numbers. In some places they sold out where they still had Civil War. By Ordering Civil War Numbers.

MY LCS told me everyone was told to hold back 10 copies so they would no sell out. Because while they still ordered Civil War Numbers they were selling out.

Plus it is sort of the bou who cried wolf. How many times have they said something was going to be big and it turned out not to be?

[erikthered25]

Actually they did. They said order Civil War Numbers. In some places they sold out where they still had Civil War. By Ordering Civil War Numbers.

MY LCS told me everyone was told to hold back 10 copies so they would no sell out. Because while they still ordered Civil War Numbers they were selling out.

Plus it is sort of the bou who cried wolf. How many times have they said something was going to be big and it turned out not to be?

Many business men will tell you that to be successful you've got to take a risk. They should have taken the risk. Even Marvel couldn't have predicted that 3 days later folks in the media would still still be asking for interviews and running stories about the death of Captain America. Now if this was all of the dealers then I would say that maybe Marvel made a mistake but it seems like you have 3 categories. There was a segment who believed what marvel said and ordered more copies, those who didn't believe marvel and had no copies, and those who ordered low so they could jack up the price and sell the issue for $30 or so a pop. So at the end of the day, those who lost out just made the wrong choice.

[Morten Pedersen]

is 52 backwards ....hmmmm ...

This actully made me laugh.

[lex luthor]

It's called taking a risk. Besides it was rumour Captain America was supposed to die, Marvel said to order Civil War type numbers, the daggone next box in 24 had a cover with blood on it.

Should retailers have over ordered that issue of FF with Doom on the cover weilding Thors hammer? Doesn't that mean Dr Doom is going to be the new Thor?

A retailers not in business for the express purpose of selling just Marvel comics. If a retailer is expected to allocate a signicant part of his/her resources to one issue, they need to get more than a wink and a nod from Marvel editorial or next issue solicitation text that reads "classified".

As long as the products not returnable, no retailer should ever be expected to take such a massive risk.

[Knowbrainer]

<b>DG</b>: I hate to predict...but I think it may be soon. No one, not Marvel, not retailers, not fans...knew what the media impact would be for this title. But let me state, that just like all of comics, because publishers & distributors may be out of the issue, does not mean that retailers are out... Regarding <b>Captain America #25</b>, <i>there are still copies available all across the country at regular prices</i>. And if your store is out now there’s more on the way.

Why does this kind of remind me of when the president of SCEA said he'd pay $1,200 bounty if anyone could find a PS3 available for purchase in stores, but just the opposite?

Personally, I would LOVE to see the stores that still have this issue and are selling it at cover price, because, well... Seeing is believing.

[Kolimar]

NRAMA: Obviously, you’re not going to give numbers, but just in terms of a ballpark - how large was the overprint on Captain America #25 compared to its initial orders?

DG: Let's just say we did the largest ever.

NRAMA: What has the reorder velocity been for the issue?

DG: This book has the highest reorder velocity that we - or Diamond - has ever seen. I don't actually see an hour to hour report so I can't tell you anything more specific than that.

NRAMA: Still, there are a limited number of copies left for reorder, so at this rate, when do you predict the supply being exhausted?

DG: I hate to predict...but I think it may be soon. No one, not Marvel, not retailers, not fans...knew what the media impact would be for this title. But let me state, that just like all of comics, because publishers & distributors may be out of the issue, does not mean that retailers are out... Regarding Captain America #25, there are still copies available all across the country at regular prices. And if your store is out now there’s more on the way.

NRAMA: In your view, how quickly will a second printing of the issue get rolling?

DG: Currently, there are no plans for that...this book should sell for a while now. However, if it is needed, then we will do it.

Excellent.

[dobieck]

Actually they did. They said order Civil War Numbers. In some places they sold out where they still had Civil War. By Ordering Civil War Numbers.

MY LCS told me everyone was told to hold back 10 copies so they would no sell out. Because while they still ordered Civil War Numbers they were selling out.

Plus it is sort of the bou who cried wolf. How many times have they said something was going to be big and it turned out not to be?

If the friggen EIC and Sales VP are "urging" you to order more, maybe you should listen. I don't know, but I doubt it is standard practice to put this out. Its not previews saying this is going to be hot, or a give-out card saying "event". This is Marvel, saying on the down low, to order more copies, something big is going to happen.

To use an analogy, Marvel and DC are like Ford and GM. If Ford or GM (in my industry) urge you, out of the blue, to do something, you do it. You trust that they are telling you in your best interest. Marvel wouldn't be trying to "screw over" the very people that move thier product. Marvel, DC, and the retailers are all partners so to speak.

[KWillyVox]

Comic shops charging over cover price!! If that was my comic shop i''d tell them where to go...

[Darth Wahu]

In two or three years you'll be seeing copies of the issue. It's almost a given.

[ramberk]

I agree. Marvel handled this perfectly well.

I can't believe people are actually arguing "the retailers got screwed". That's a very short-sighted view.

WIthout this 'surprise', you wouldn't have gotten no where near as much excitement and attention as Marvel.

I mean, whats better, a press release announcing his death a few weeks in advance? Or a surprise?

Marvel urged retailers to order a lot. Marvel over printed the issue. They're sending new copies next Wednesday.

At the end of the day, Marvel is out to make money-- that's a given. But having said that, Marvel really gave us all, the hardcore comic book readers, a real 'event'. There's a lot of excitement to this whole dead business and its producing an overall positive effect throughout the whole industry and through the books Marvel produces.

By keeping these things secret, we're surprised again. Its a wonderful feeling.

When you kill a major character-- this is how you do it. All comic book publishers take note.

[Knowbrainer]

So even if they didn't kill him, they may have crippled him, which would still cause a media blitz...

Didn't he become crippled and need a suit of Stark armor to continue being a hero in the (crappy) late 90s? I don't seem to recall that causing a media blitz.

[Dr Stranger]

I can remember the media reaction to Superman's death. This is Captain America (almost as iconic), in friggin' war time. How could they have possibly not anticipated this kind of mainstream reaction? I call shennanigans.

I think that if they and released this information in advance that it would't have received nearly as much media attention as it did. I suspect that a few outlets would have mentioned it in passing, but since they wouldn't have been able to point to an issue (or print/show picutures) that they wouldn't have given it much of a push. And then, when the issue did come out, it wouldn't be news as it would have been known for so long.

edit - And I see that someone else just posted the same thing.

[BlueBeetleIII]

If the friggen EIC and Sales VP are "urging" you to order more, maybe you should listen. I don't know, but I doubt it is standard practice to put this out. Its not previews saying this is going to be hot, or a give-out card saying "event". This is Marvel, saying on the down low, to order more copies, something big is going to happen.

To use an analogy, Marvel and DC are like Ford and GM. If Ford or GM (in my industry) urge you, out of the blue, to do something, you do it. You trust that they are telling you in your best interest. Marvel wouldn't be trying to "screw over" the very people that move thier product. Marvel, DC, and the retailers are all partners so to speak.

What? What do you do for a living?
If you ran a supermarket and Kelloggs told you to stock up on something would you do it? At the expense of ordering other items?

Of course Marvel is going to tell them order heavy. Tell me a time they are going to say "Yeah order less nothing big is going to happen".

So if you were running a comic shop and they told you to order heavy and you did and then wound up witht ons of unsold aterials would you glady say "Oh well" If Marvel said "Order high on everything! It is going to be big" would you?

[BasMallee]

Captain Amurka is gone!:eek:
And the MCU is ruled by Tony Orwell Stark.:mad:
Why didn't they kill that silly man?:confused:
That would surely have been better.;)
Luckily they didn't kill Ms Marvel, phew!:)

[Knowbrainer]

Many business men will tell you that to be successful you've got to take a risk. They should have taken the risk. Even Marvel couldn't have predicted that 3 days later folks in the media would still still be asking for interviews and running stories about the death of Captain America. Now if this was all of the dealers then I would say that maybe Marvel made a mistake but it seems like you have 3 categories. There was a segment who believed what marvel said and ordered more copies, those who didn't believe marvel and had no copies, and those who ordered low so they could jack up the price and sell the issue for $30 or so a pop. So at the end of the day, those who lost out just made the wrong choice.

Out of curiousity, do work in or own a comic shop of your own?

[sniperboy65]

Uh, does anyone remember "The Death of Superman"? This is just another publicity stunt on Marvel's part. They will being Cap back in a year or so and make you all run to the stores and buy his return issue. I am just waiting for Thor to return.

Don't be a tool and let them play you like a fiddle...

[NoBoundaries]

Personally, I would LOVE to see the stores that still have this issue and are selling it at cover price, because, well... Seeing is believing.

Actually, we are still selling our copies at cover, but the copies that are left are only for pull members.

If I had copies on shelves at this moment, even though I would be tempted to raise the price or put it on ebay, I wouldn't. I value my returning customers at more than a quick buck.

I also don't want to promote false hope to people that this book is going to worth $100s when in a week it will be 2.99 and month in my 30% off box and 6 months in my half off sale and in a year I can't even give away, just take it already... jk it will continue to sell well, I hope. :)

[BlueBeetleIII]

By keeping these things secret, we're surprised again. Its a wonderful feeling.

When you kill a major character-- this is how you do it. All comic book publishers take note.

I actually would have been more surprisded if, you know, I read it in the comic before I read it on the news!

Would you feel the same way if while turning on the news they told you the latest ending of the latest murder novel. Big Letters "The Butler Did It!".

[eltopo]

My only (minor) gripe? Finding the Ed McGuinness variant cover in my pull instead of the more visually impressive standard cover, then not being able to swap it because of the sellout.
I had the same problem and I hate ed mcguiness !

[sebzero11]

If the friggen EIC and Sales VP are "urging" you to order more, maybe you should listen. I don't know, but I doubt it is standard practice to put this out. Its not previews saying this is going to be hot, or a give-out card saying "event". This is Marvel, saying on the down low, to order more copies, something big is going to happen.

To use an analogy, Marvel and DC are like Ford and GM. If Ford or GM (in my industry) urge you, out of the blue, to do something, you do it. You trust that they are telling you in your best interest. Marvel wouldn't be trying to "screw over" the very people that move thier product. Marvel, DC, and the retailers are all partners so to speak.

Dude, have you ever worked in or owned a Comic Store? I've done both, and let me assure you Marvel urges you to order heavy on EVERY new issue, arc, and title, they put out, assuring you that each and everyone will "have long felt ramifications on the Marvel Universe".

Hell, back in the '90s Marvel used to send retailers sales packages called "SALES TO ASTONISH" and each one was filled with sales tips that bordered on insulting the intelligence of every reader they had.

....though, to be honest, those old Sales to Astonish tips were probably the most enjoyable read to be had in the '90s....from ANY company.
:D

[ramberk]

Should retailers have over ordered that issue of FF with Doom on the cover weilding Thors hammer? Doesn't that mean Dr Doom is going to be the new Thor?

A retailers not in business for the express purpose of selling just Marvel comics. If a retailer is expected to allocate a signicant part of his/her resources to one issue, they need to get more than a wink and a nod from Marvel editorial or next issue solicitation text that reads "classified".

As long as the products not returnable, no retailer should ever be expected to take such a massive risk.

But that's the catch-22. If Marvel had given retailers explicit information that the issue would contain a death, there would have not been as much excitement and demand for the issue as there was by keeping the death a secret.

The whole reason this has been a success is because it was kept a secret.

I know retailers hate being kept in the dark and it makes running their business a lot more difficult when Marvel hides information but in the long run this is a good business. Solicitations have totally ruined any surprise or suspense in comics. Marvel is now building a genuine level of uncertainty and shock in their books. Its like we're going back to the early days of Marvel when 'shock' was 'real shock'. There's been quite a few deaths and dramatic changes in the last few years of Marvel that have resonated strongly because Marvel kept them secret.

Kudos to Marvel for bringing back some suspense, wonder and surprise in their books. In the short term, they sell less books but in the long term they make happier readers and sell more books.

[StudioNFC]

Diamond did not know what was happening as our production schedule that they receive also had the vague titles and information.

Man. I wish I could solicit a book to diamond like that.

What a bunch of B.S.

Diamond is killing indy comics.

[dobieck]

What? What do you do for a living?
If you ran a supermarket and Kelloggs told you to stock up on something would you do it? At the expense of ordering other items?

Of course Marvel is going to tell them order heavy. Tell me a time they are going to say "Yeah order less nothing big is going to happen".

So if you were running a comic shop and they told you to order heavy and you did and then wound up witht ons of unsold aterials would you glady say "Oh well" If Marvel said "Order high on everything! It is going to be big" would you?

But they don't say order high on everything. And from what I can tell, they've never done anything like this before. This was an out of the ordinary thing.

And, to your point about being stuck with unsold materials. Well, that didn't happen. So back to my point, why wouldn't retailers be trusting who the two companies that they actually move material for. It would not be in Marvel's (or DC to be PC) interest to screw them over!

[Knowbrainer]

Actually, we are still selling our copies at cover, but the copies that are left are only for pull members.

If I had copies on shelves at this moment, even though I would be tempted to raise the price or put it on ebay, I wouldn't. I value my returning customers at more than a quick buck.

I also don't want to promote false hope to people that this book is going to worth $100s when in a week it will be 2.99 and month in my 30% off box and 6 months in my half off sale and in a year I can't even give away, just take it already... jk it will continue to sell well, I hope. :)

Cool. I'm happy to see a retailer that values the business of his customers.

[Rich L]

Didn't he become crippled and need a suit of Stark armor to continue being a hero in the (crappy) late 90s? I don't seem to recall that causing a media blitz.

Yep - and then shortly after, he died in the last issue of Mark Gruenwald's run on the book (not a great storyline to go out on, but a nice last issue with Cap and Batroc). He was revived in the next storyline by Waid and Garney.

Then he died again in Cap #50 which was supposed to lead in to a new launch which was ultimately replaced by the Reiber (?)/Cassaday launch. The death was ignored.

This time, however, Marvel is far more PR savvy - they're smart enough to leak the story on the day of issue as a big deal. And, to be fair, the fact that this is being portrayed on the back ov Civil War and as a political allegory make it a bigger deal. It also helps that this is a creative team which consistently delivers the goods.

Marvel tried to tell retailers without letting slip what was going to happen - if they had solicited the issue fully, then it would have been on the internet in a matter of minutes. This way was much better - reorders are coming next week, and I have never, ever seen Midtown Comics as busy as they were last Wednesday - and it wasn't just Cap and Dark Tower people were buying. They were buying a lot of stuff.

I understand retailers being caught short but they were suggested to order heavily not in a press release to Newsarama but through proper, legitimate sources. I'm in publishing; I get that retailers don't listen to everything a company puts out because of hype - but as I understand it, this was a slightly different situation than the usual hype.

[StudioNFC]

Kudos to Marvel for bringing back some suspense, wonder and surprise in their books. In the short term, they sell less books but in the long term they make happier readers and sell more books.

The didn't make readers happier. In fact they pissed off a lot of them, because of this crap. They made the jerks who haven't bought a comic book since Death of Superman, who only sell on eBay, and not even read the damn books, happier.

Marvel has proven themselves to be nothing more than deceitful.

Case in point. Sentry. That whole fiasco was nothing more than a lie.

Case in point. The return of Colossus. That whole fiasco was nothing more than a fake bull crap cover being used for solicits.


Case in point. The whole zombie thing in Ultimate Fantastic Four when readers were left to believe the Ultimate Universe was meeting regular Marvel for the first time. Man, they even alluded to how they pulled a quick on with the last line of that book "Ever feel like you've been had?"

And now we get this.

It's sad when Marvel, has to use deceit to sell huge numbers. Especially when the story told, could do the same itself.

[MattBrady]

Man. I wish I could solicit a book to diamond like that. Make Diamond millions of dollars in a year, set up a brokerage partnership with them, and I bet you'd be able to talk them into bending some rules upon occasion.

And why in the world would you <i>want</i> to solicit a new title, that people - especially retailers - <i>don't</i> know about about in such a way?

MattB

[ramberk]

I actually would have been more surprisded if, you know, I read it in the comic before I read it on the news!

Would you feel the same way if while turning on the news they told you the latest ending of the latest murder novel. Big Letters "The Butler Did It!".

I agree, the media did spoil it. Maybe regular comic book readers should go on a "media-blackout" every Wednesday until they read their weekly books. :)

[dobieck]

Dude, have you ever worked in or owned a Comic Store? I've done both, and let me assure you Marvel urges you to order heavy on EVERY new issue, arc, and title, they put out, assuring you that each and everyone will "have long felt ramifications on the Marvel Universe".

Hell, back in the '90s Marvel used to send retailers sales packages called "SALES TO ASTONISH" and each one was filled with sales tips that bordered on insulting the intelligence of every reader they had.

....though, to be honest, those old Sales to Astonish tips were probably the most enjoyable read to be had in the '90s....from ANY company.
:D

No I haven't. And, if sending out special messages to urge you to buy more of 1 particular issue is the norm, then, I am wrong. I will admit it.

But I was under the impression that this particular announcement was not the norm. I would like to see what the comic shop owners have to say about the "announcement" and why they did or didn't use the information.

[zengoth]

Actually, we are still selling our copies at cover, but the copies that are left are only for pull members.

If I had copies on shelves at this moment, even though I would be tempted to raise the price or put it on ebay, I wouldn't. I value my returning customers at more than a quick buck.

I also don't want to promote false hope to people that this book is going to worth $100s when in a week it will be 2.99 and month in my 30% off box and 6 months in my half off sale and in a year I can't even give away, just take it already... jk it will continue to sell well, I hope. :)

I wish MY LCS valued it's returning customers. They sold out on Wed., are getting a limited amount next Wed (out of that massive overrun, BTW :rolleyes: ), and will sell to everyone (pull member or not) at $7.00 - limit 1 per customer...

[erikthered25]

Should retailers have over ordered that issue of FF with Doom on the cover weilding Thors hammer? Doesn't that mean Dr Doom is going to be the new Thor?

A retailers not in business for the express purpose of selling just Marvel comics. If a retailer is expected to allocate a signicant part of his/her resources to one issue, they need to get more than a wink and a nod from Marvel editorial or next issue solicitation text that reads "classified".

As long as the products not returnable, no retailer should ever be expected to take such a massive risk.

Marvel never told retailers to bump their orders because there maybe a media blitz with it either..hence the difference. No one asked them to take a massive risk. In the end they had a choice. To order the same or bump their orders. Um they didn't want to spoil Civil War which would have pissed more people off because folks complain Marvel can't keep a lid on nuthin and when they do keep a lid on stuff they get hammered for it. It's damned if you do and damned if you don't.

[Scooby2099]

I wish MY LCS valued it's returning customers. They sold out on Wed., are getting a limited amount next Wed (out of that massive overrun, BTW :rolleyes: ), and will sell to everyone (pull member or not) at $7.00 - limit 1 per customer...

Jacking the price to $7.00? I suggest you find somewhere else to shop. I wouldn't give a shop like this another penny.

[ramberk]

The didn't make readers happier. In fact they pissed off a lot of them, because of this crap. They made the jerks who haven't bought a comic book since Death of Superman, who only sell on eBay, and not even read the damn books, happier.

Marvel has proven themselves to be nothing more than deceitful.

Case in point. Sentry. That whole fiasco was nothing more than a lie.

The return of Colossus. That whole fiasco was nothing more than a fake bull crap cover being used for solicits.

And now we get this.

It's sad when Marvel, has to use deceit to sell huge numbers. Especially when he story told, could do the same itself.

I don't understand what your arguing? What do you mean Marvel is deceitful? How did they 'lie' about Cap's death?

About scalpers. Its not Marvel's fault that scalpers exist. If you hate scalpers, you should ask your local comic book shop owner to limit one book per customer. But Marvel' can't control scalpers.

Another thing, I'd much rather be shocked and surprised by events in a book then have those details spoiled on the internet or through solicitations. Do you like it when someone tells you the ending to a book your reading before you finish reading the book? I don't think most people like that. This is the same thing.

Lastly, we all know what happens in comics with regards to 'deaths.' But that still doesn't mean we can't enjoy the 'event'. I had heard the rumors about Cap's death but was genuinely surprised Wednesday morning when the news broke out. I thought that was great.

I also know that its very likely for Marvel to eventually bring back Cap. But I don't dwell on that. I just enjoy the ride. Geeze. Enjoy the ride.

[StudioNFC]

I understand retailers being caught short but they were suggested to order heavily not in a press release to Newsarama but through proper, legitimate sources. I'm in publishing; I get that retailers don't listen to everything a company puts out because of hype - but as I understand it, this was a slightly different situation than the usual hype.

Oh bullcrap, dude. Look I've worked in a comic shop. Retailers do NOT go off of just a promise that something is "going to be huge". They have numbers that they have to order. And when it's just a random book like Captain America, and they get something along the lines of "This book is going to be huge SHIELD classified info blah blah blah" at best, they're going to think it's just a set up for a 6 issue or so storyline in Cap. Not the death of the character.

Marvel KNEW retailers would be pissed because of low numbers. They KNEW fans would be pissed because of a vague solicitation. And they KNEW they could cover themselves regardless of who was pissed with the media on their side.

They didn't take fans into consideration at all. They took a sales pike into consideration. And while it may be fruitful in the short term, in the long run it's going to bite them in the ass when Steve Rogers (yes Steve Rogers, not Captain America) returns in some retarded way ala a clone or LMD. Because then fans will lose any and all faith in the company that they haven't already lost.

[StudioNFC]

Jacking the price to $7.00? I suggest you find somewhere else to shop. I wouldn't give a shop like this another penny.

No kidding.

I left my LCS (and I worked there by the way) because of how they jacked up prices on the variant Civil War covers, on the day they were released, when across town those variants were cover price. And mind you there are roughly twenty shops in my area.

It sounds like your retailer is just trying to rape wallets.

[ramberk]

Marvel KNEW retailers would be pissed because of low numbers. They KNEW fans would be pissed because of a vague solicitation. And they KNEW they could cover themselves regardless of who was pissed with the media on their side.


If Marvel is so hell-bent on making the retailers and customers so angry, explain the following...

Explain why Marvel hugely overprinted this issue and is sending re-orders to retailers next Wednesday. How does that serve to make retailers angry?

Explain why Marvel kept the death a secret in order to surprise readers? Are you saying that everyone would have been much happier if they had known weeks or months in advance that Cap was gonna get killed?

Marvel is not perfect but it looks to me that you'll take anything that Marvel does and spin it as a negative.

[FlipNite]

My shop -- the New England Comics in Norwood, Mass. -- had a huge amount of both covers. They were also selling the variant McGuiness at cover price, when they normally bag the variants and sell them at a markup. I grabbed one of each, although seeing those eBay numbers, I wish I had grabbed more!

Anyway, I'm just wondering, if my store was well prepared, why weren't all of them?

And what's the big deal with a boatload more on the way (still first prints)?

[Knowbrainer]

Yep - and then shortly after, he died in the last issue of Mark Gruenwald's run on the book (not a great storyline to go out on, but a nice last issue with Cap and Batroc). He was revived in the next storyline by Waid and Garney.

Then he died again in Cap #50 which was supposed to lead in to a new launch which was ultimately replaced by the Reiber (?)/Cassaday launch. The death was ignored.

I wonder, did Joe Simon complain about being shocked that Marvel killed him off those times? Also, the media didn't get wind of those issues.

The Death of Superman... Sure, people knew about it three months in advance. I won't doubt that some numbskull non-comic readers went to the stores looking for book, found it wasn't out yet, left, and never came back. But I remember my store having lists made up for people that wanted all the parts and were assured they would receive those books. People knew he was going to die, yes, but I doubt that ruined any surprise since they all knew it was coming. I think what people REALLY wanted to know was HOW.

There are a few things I credit for being responsible for what the market is these days. The Batman and Superman debuts. Spider-Man and Fantastic Four debuts, signalling - nay, heralding - Marvel's birth. Stan 'The Man' Lee and the way he promoted comics. Death of Gwen Stacy, Crisis on Infinite Earths, Dark Knight Returns, and Watchmen. Then things REALLY picked up with The Death of Superman because it caused the initial boom in the biz. Granted, that led to an implosion later, but everyone in the market had to learn from that (which in a way makes it a good thing). Finally, Joe Quesada taking over as EIC of Marvel.

I'm not happy with Marvel going to the news outlets and letting them know that Captain America was going to die in the issues that would hit stores that very same day. If Marvel was going to give the retailers any sort of heads up regarding the issue, I now think that they should have simply told the retailers that they (Marvel) were going to go to news outlets regarding the book. Saying something like that doesn't spoil the issue's story, but would be a far better motivator than suggesting that they order Civil War numbers.

[erikthered25]

The didn't make readers happier. In fact they pissed off a lot of them, because of this crap. They made the jerks who haven't bought a comic book since Death of Superman, who only sell on eBay, and not even read the damn books, happier.

Marvel has proven themselves to be nothing more than deceitful.

Case in point. Sentry. That whole fiasco was nothing more than a lie.

Case in point. The return of Colossus. That whole fiasco was nothing more than a fake bull crap cover being used for solicits.


Case in point. The whole zombie thing in Ultimate Fantastic Four when readers were left to believe the Ultimate Universe was meeting regular Marvel for the first time. Man, they even alluded to how they pulled a quick on with the last line of that book "Ever feel like you've been had?"

And now we get this.

It's sad when Marvel, has to use deceit to sell huge numbers. Especially when the story told, could do the same itself.

Now we're name calling. Deceit. It's Marvels job to hype their product. You're trying to get people to purchase your product you have to hype your product a little to get the interested. Also most folks hated the fact that Marvel U (616) and the Ultimate line were meeting so early. So I'm assuming that they were pleasantly surprise that they were actually meeting the Zombie Marvel Universe and not the regular one. Sentry they were trying to introduce a new character, so what if they told us that he had been around forever. They just used a little misdirection. It's used all of the time. No Man's Land was partly build on misdirection and someone operating in the background trying to buy up all of Gotham which turned out to be Lex Luther. Come on this is nothing new. The internet had made it almost impossible for anything to be kept a secret or to be kept silent so they use a little misdirection so surprises like Cap America dying could happen. There is nothing wrong with that. What makes this Cap America thing so awesome is that no one saw it coming. It heralds to the time when before the net became so common place, you didn't know what to expect when you went to ur comic book box.

[dobieck]

Oh bullcrap, dude. Look I've worked in a comic shop. Retailers do NOT go off of just a promise that something is "going to be huge". They have numbers that they have to order. And when it's just a random book like Captain America, and they get something along the lines of "This book is going to be huge SHIELD classified info blah blah blah" at best, they're going to think it's just a set up for a 6 issue or so storyline in Cap. Not the death of the character.

Marvel KNEW retailers would be pissed because of low numbers. They KNEW fans would be pissed because of a vague solicitation. And they KNEW they could cover themselves regardless of who was pissed with the media on their side.

They didn't take fans into consideration at all. They took a sales pike into consideration. And while it may be fruitful in the short term, in the long run it's going to bite them in the ass when Steve Rogers (yes Steve Rogers, not Captain America) returns in some retarded way ala a clone or LMD. Because then fans will lose any and all faith in the company that they haven't already lost.

So retailers will not listen to a special announcement by Marvel's VP of sales?

[Knowbrainer]

My shop -- the New England Comics in Norwood, Mass. -- had a huge amount of both covers. They were also selling the variant McGuiness at cover price, when they normally bag the variants and sell them at a markup.

Well... the covers came in a 50/50 ratio. It wasn't a 1 per 10 cover deal.

[Starpilot]

And the guys on ebay getting a hundred bucks an issue...well, the less said about them the better.

The less said about them? Man, what about the poor sods buying the book for $100 when Marvel still has considerable stores of first printings that will be available for cover price next week?

[StudioNFC]

I don't understand what your arguing? What do you mean Marvel is deceitful? How did they 'lie' about Cap's death?


I didn't say they "lied" about Cap's death. I said they were deceitful in how they solicited the issue. just like how they were deceitful with the return of Colossus. And the whole Sentry thing was a big lie. And the Ultimate Universe running into the Marvel universe and we got zombies instead....that was deceitful too. And the sad part is, all of these stories were really good. marvel didn't have to be deceitful to sell huge numbers on them. The stories themselves would have sold those numbers. Marvel was deceitful in their solicitation, by giving a vague (at best) solicit of what the issue contained. Sorry if I confused you with my earlier statement.


About scalpers. Its not Marvel's fault that scalpers exist. If you hate scalpers, you should ask your local comic book shop owner to limit one book per customer. But Marvel' can't control scalpers.


I agree Marvel can't control scalpers but they knew this crap would happen. That's why they did it. For the attention buzz they're currently getting. And asking a shop to limit one book per customer. Yeah it's kind of hard to do that with the type of solicit Marvel gave, isn't it?


Another thing, I'd much rather be shocked and surprised by events in a book then have those details spoiled on the internet or through solicitations. Do you like it when someone tells you the ending to a book your reading before you finish reading the book? I don't think most people like that. This is the same thing.

So stop reading Internet spoilers. I don't read them yet I still use the Internet every day of the week. And guess what. I don't get spoilers, except in rare cases like this. Hell I didn't even pick up Civil War 4 until 7 was released (then I bought 4,5,6, and 7 all at once). And guess what....in all that time I didn't read one single spoiler. And it wasn't because of a lack of them. It was because I chose not to read them.


Lastly, we all know what happens in comics with regards to 'deaths.' But that still doesn't mean we can't enjoy the 'event'. I had heard the rumors about Cap's death but was genuinely surprised Wednesday morning when the news broke out. I thought that was great.

I also know that its very likely for Marvel to eventually bring back Cap. But I don't dwell on that. I just enjoy the ride. Geeze. Enjoy the ride.

First off I don't even read Captain America. I don't like it. I dig Ed's other books, but Cap ain't my thing. If someone else digs the book that's cool though. My issue isn't with the fact that he died. It's with the fact of how Marvel has handled the entire thing with their solicitation of the issue.

[Boxful]

There is nothing collectible about something with an enormous print run like this book. Marvel is sitting on a boatload of them ready to send out next week. Hell, they're probably the ones putting them up on Ebay in the meantime.

Catching the public by suprise and not offering a second shipment or printing would be the best thing for them and the industry. To keep this book in the high-demand category could in turn bring more fans back looking for the next diamond in the rough. But no. Not Marvel. They'll milk it for all it's worth.

People buying ten copies? That's so 90's.

So relax, tons of this junk will be in the dollar boxes where it belongs soon enough. And I'll still pass on it.

[NoBoundaries]

I wish MY LCS valued it's returning customers. They sold out on Wed., are getting a limited amount next Wed (out of that massive overrun, BTW :rolleyes: ), and will sell to everyone (pull member or not) at $7.00 - limit 1 per customer...

I'm sorry to hear that.

This tatic hurts everyone in the long and short run. The retailer who is seen as shady , the buyer who feels screwed, Marvel who indirectly will be associated with this act, and the industry that seems to say that this good to do.

I honestly would say to voice your opinion directly to them by telling them, MARVEL has said there will be enough copies that even in 100 years there will over a million copies of #25 available so don't screw with me cuz I need my fix (little exageration never hurts) or simply go to another shop if there is one.

I'll put this offer on the table now, when I receive my order and fill the rest of my pull list members that want it. I will more than gladly ship out a copy at regular cover price plus postage to anyone being screwed at a regular priced copy.

[dobieck]

The less said about them? Man, what about the poor sods buying the book for $100 when Marvel still has considerable stores of first printings that will be available for cover price next week?

100% agree. I sell a ton of stuff on ebay. If someone is willing to pay over $200 bucks for this comic then man, that's their problem, not mine. I listed it at .99, and they bid it up. Not my problem.

[Scooby2099]

My shop -- the New England Comics in Norwood, Mass. -- had a huge amount of both covers. They were also selling the variant McGuiness at cover price, when they normally bag the variants and sell them at a markup. I grabbed one of each, although seeing those eBay numbers, I wish I had grabbed more!

Anyway, I'm just wondering, if my store was well prepared, why weren't all of them?

And what's the big deal with a boatload more on the way (still first prints)?

Well, I'd think they should be selling that McGuinness variant at cover price especially since it shipped at a 50/50 ratio (and they got the exact same discount on it as the regular cover). Not all "variants" are scarce.

[borghe]

as a smaller retailer I figured I'd weigh in on this. In a mild defense of Marvel I went back and looked at my mailers and in two different mailers before FOC they made a BRIEF mention that retailers should seriously consider increasing orders. Very brief and very vague and not very adequate given the magnitude of the events. On Wednesday I was in total agreement with StudioNFC on this. However since then and since getting a rough understanding of around how many of my reorders are going to be filled, I have to give credit to Marvel on the way they've handled this. They knew there was no way retailers would order the "correct" number of copies and thus the overprint. In light of that they have done a great job of making sure there are enough FIRST PRINTINGS to get out there to readers. Again, I really give Marvel credit where credit is due.

As for the second area StudioNFC is touching on, that has little to do with Marvel. Retailers jacking prices up, scalpers (or retailers) hitting ebay, etc. If people are willing to pay $30 for a three day old book, there is no law stopping someone from selling it to them. I don't agree with it for sure, but it is their right to do so. If you don't like it, simply stop shopping at the place that's doing it? There are plenty of us out there who don't scalp hot books (I had Spider-Man Reign #1 in stock and at cover until I got the second printing in) and would love you as a customer. But to actually crucify a shop for taking part in capitalism is kind of attacking what makes this country great. No need or name calling or public criticism. Just find a new shop and move on.

So retailers will not listen to a special announcement by Marvel's VP of sales?
just to point out, I personally never saw any special announcement from Marvel/Diamond. Just two weekly mailers that had the vague mention I stated above.

[0bsessions]

There is nothing collectible about something with an enormous print run like this book. Marvel is sitting on a boatload of them ready to send out next week. Hell, they're probably the ones putting them up on Ebay in the meantime.

Catching the public by suprise and not offering a second shipment or printing would be the best thing for them and the industry. To keep this book in the high-demand category could in turn bring more fans back looking for the next diamond in the rough. But no. Not Marvel. They'll milk it for all it's worth.

People buying ten copies? That's so 90's.

So relax, tons of this junk will be in the dollar boxes where it belongs soon enough. And I'll still pass on it.

So you're saying the best thing for the industry and Marvel is for them to encourage speculation and make it impossible for the casual reader to read this comic without spending ten times the cover price?

Yeah, that makes PERFECT sense!

[dobieck]

I'm sorry to hear that.

This tatic hurts everyone in the long and short run. The retailer who is seen as shady , the buyer who feels screwed, Marvel who indirectly will be associated with this act, and the industry that seems to say that this good to do.

I honestly would say to voice your opinion directly to them by telling them, MARVEL has said there will be enough copies that even in 100 years there will over a million copies of #25 available so don't screw with me cuz I need my fix (little exageration never hurts) or simply go to another shop if there is one.

I'll put this offer on the table now, when I receive my order and fill the rest of my pull list members that want it. I will more than gladly ship out a copy at regular cover price plus postage to anyone being screwed at a regular priced copy.

Kudos to you No Boundries. See, not everyone is out to get you (you meaning all the negative posters)

[StudioNFC]

So retailers will not listen to a special announcement by Marvel's VP of sales?

Short Answer: No.

Long Answer: No. Retailers listen to previous months sales, and the solicitations given in Previews. However I suppose my LCS has a slight advantage, as it's owned by Mike Malve (Board Member of The HERO Initiative formerly known as A.C.T.O.R.) and he has some close "inside friends", if you will, that can tell him to order high numbers. But no, generally the retailers pay attention to previous month's sales and to the solicits. That's all. And Marvel knows that's how they operate.

[StudioNFC]

Now we're name calling. Deceit. It's Marvels job to hype their product. You're trying to get people to purchase your product you have to hype your product a little to get the interested. Also most folks hated the fact that Marvel U (616) and the Ultimate line were meeting so early. So I'm assuming that they were pleasantly surprise that they were actually meeting the Zombie Marvel Universe and not the regular one. Sentry they were trying to introduce a new character, so what if they told us that he had been around forever. They just used a little misdirection. It's used all of the time. No Man's Land was partly build on misdirection and someone operating in the background trying to buy up all of Gotham which turned out to be Lex Luther. Come on this is nothing new. The internet had made it almost impossible for anything to be kept a secret or to be kept silent so they use a little misdirection so surprises like Cap America dying could happen. There is nothing wrong with that. What makes this Cap America thing so awesome is that no one saw it coming. It heralds to the time when before the net became so common place, you didn't know what to expect when you went to ur comic book box.

If you don't want spoilers, stop reading them.

I don't read them and I get surprised all the time.

[BlueBeetleIII]

If you don't want spoilers, stop reading them.

I don't read them and I get surprised all the time.

How do I avoid spoilers when it is over the news. Am I suppose to go into seculsion until I get my comics? Not talk to anyone, not watch the news? Not listen to the radio? Read the newspaper?

[DARTH NOOBIE]

Does anyone remember when John Walker was Cap? He was "shot and killed" by a sniper at a news conference to welcome back Steve Rogers. Cap's most likely in hiding with Nick Fury. He will return to make Iron Man's life hell. Could we get an original story please? I do have faith in Bru though. Hell, he made Bucky cool.

[blankpoint]

Can anyone tell me why Diamond has been telling me since yesterday afternoon that I CANNOT order more copies? They say the cutoff was yesterday at noon. And yet on Wednesday, they were not accepting backorders, saying it would go to second printing and orders could be placed then.

[StudioNFC]

How do I avoid spoilers when it is over the news. Am I suppose to go into seculsion until I get my comics? Not talk to anyone, not watch the news? Not listen to the radio? Read the newspaper?

I am on the internet ALL DAY every day.

I didn't read one single spoiler on any of the Civil War stuff.
If you want to avoid spoilers then don't read them. Most places that provide spoilers provide a spoiler WARNING. Not all, but most.

If you REALLY want to avoid spoilers, you can. It isn't hard.

[dobieck]

I am on the internet ALL DAY every day.

I didn't read one single spoiler on any of the Civil War stuff.
If you want to avoid spoilers then don't read them. Most places that provide spoilers provide a spoiler WARNING. Not all, but most.

If you REALLY want to avoid spoilers, you can. It isn't hard.

I went to check my Yahoo email and on the front page of Yahoo at 10am, "Captain America Killed off by Marvel Comics"

Not too avoidable, in this case.

[StudioNFC]

Make Diamond millions of dollars in a year, set up a brokerage partnership with them, and I bet you'd be able to talk them into bending some rules upon occasion.

And why in the world would you <i>want</i> to solicit a new title, that people - especially retailers - <i>don't</i> know about about in such a way?

MattB

Who said it would be a new title?

[StudioNFC]

I went to check my Yahoo email and on the front page of Yahoo at 10am, "Captain America Killed off by Marvel Comics"

Not too avoidable, in this case.

Granted. And as I stated earlier, this is a rare case, when it comes to avoiding spoilers.

[borghe]

Can anyone tell me why Diamond has been telling me since yesterday afternoon that I CANNOT order more copies? They say the cutoff was yesterday at noon. And yet on Wednesday, they were not accepting backorders, saying it would go to second printing and orders could be placed then.
check your pm.

[erikthered25]

If you don't want spoilers, stop reading them.

I don't read them and I get surprised all the time.

That's your answer for everything huh. But when your waiting for the see the new lineup for JLA and the writer won't reveal it until the 6th issue for some reason and when you go to the comicbook shop and the comicbook dealer has up the JLA#1 variant that shows the new line up in the shop, you can't help but be spoiled. All I'm saying is that spoilers can happen anywhere. Just a simple trip to yahoo.com and I found out that Cap was dead. But that was an add on my main comment is that it's okay for a company to use misdirection to see their product or hype their storyline. I guess the complaining will never end. Folks will always have something to complain about. But seriously, TV shows do this all of time and no one complains why can't comics do this. Um mystery books do the same thing, mystery shows do the same thing. Once again why can't comics do the same thing?

[StudioNFC]

Marvel is sitting on a boatload of them ready to send out next week. Hell, they're probably the ones putting them up on Ebay in the meantime.

Dude, I'm bashing Marvel all over the place and even I can say, that that's not fair to say about Marvel (in regards to them selling on eBay).

[MattBrady]

Who said it would be a new title? whatever, then. Have the same relationship, be responsible for bringing millions in the door like Marvel and DC, and you can do it, too.

MattB

[StudioNFC]

That's your answer for everything huh. But when your waiting for the see the new lineup for JLA and the writer won't reveal it until the 6th issue for some reason and when you go to the comicbook shop and the comicbook dealer has up the JLA#1 variant that shows the new line up in the shop, you can't help but be spoiled. All I'm saying is that spoilers can happen anywhere. Just a simple trip to yahoo.com and I found out that Cap was dead. But that was an add on my main comment is that it's okay for a company to use misdirection to see their product or hype their storyline. I guess the complaining will never end. Folks will always have something to complain about. But seriously, TV shows do this all of time and no one complains why can't comics do this. Um mystery books do the same thing, mystery shows do the same thing. Once again why can't comics do the same thing?

Ya know man, if you disagree with me, that's cool. No big deal. But you don't have to be rude. "That's you answer for everything". What the hell is that supposed to mean?

How about next time you read the ENTIRE thread before hitting that "REPLY" button. I CLEARLY stated TWICE now, that this was a RARE occasion.:rolleyes:

[erikthered25]

Ya know man, if you disagree with me, that's cool. No big deal. But you don't have to be rude. "That's you answer for everything". What the hell is that supposed to mean?

How about next time you read the ENTIRE thread before hitting that "REPLY" button. I CLEARLY stated TWICE now, that this was a RARE occasion.:rolleyes:

Not being rude but I was replying to my response and it was meant to be sarcastic because I had noticed u had said it a few times above my comment. I'm at work typing in between calls so by the time I had typed all of that those other comments had allready been sent in. So I missed all of those. Will I go back and edit my response...Of course not!!!

A little sensitive are we not??:rolleyes:

[Boxful]

So you're saying the best thing for the industry and Marvel is for them to encourage speculation and make it impossible for the casual reader to read this comic without spending ten times the cover price?

Yeah, that makes PERFECT sense!

No, I mentioned you'll have plenty of opportunity to get a hold of this book as they've printed a boatload (second printing coming too). So it won't be very collectable as everybody will have copies. I didn't say anything about 'impossible'. I said this stuff will be in the dollar boxes soon enough when interest fades. Get off my back, tough guy.

[Fletcher]

What I can't believe is the price gouging on this by some retailers, not to mention the amounts that people are willing to pay. I saw last night on eBay an auction was well over $200 for both covers. They weren't CGC graded either. That' s just insane.

Regardless, if it brings new readers in, I'm not going to argue. Instead, I'll just applaud Bru and Epting on a great issue.


200 bones?
I need to check my auctions! Mine are not CGC graded either and never will be since that stuff is a scam to begin with.
I can see both cases. Marvel said get a lot of copies of this issue. Some stores did and some did not. But some stores can not afford to take the chance on buying more issues of a comic on the publishers word alone. What Marvel could have done was told the retailers het something big is going to happen that we can not tell you. If you buy X more number of Captain America 25 and do not sell them we will buy them back. If they all sell great for the store, they will probably get repeat buisness if the store is run right. If they dont Marvel buys them back, no foul. Its a win win for both parties.

[Fletcher]

No, I mentioned you'll have plenty of opportunity to get a hold of this book as they've printed a boatload (second printing coming too). So it won't be very collectable as everybody will have copies. I didn't say anything about 'impossible'. I said this stuff will be in the dollar boxes soon enough when interest fades. Get off my back, tough guy.


I know I know I am double posting. No one needs to let me know that.

I got to say I agree with you. Its only a matter of time before interest dies down and you can get this book anywhere for cover price or maybe a buck or two more. That is if Wizard magazine didn't sink some dollars into and need to get rid of there copies. I dont trust those people at all. But getting back to the point...I was selling the 1st Iron Spider Man on Ebay ( I was lucky that I was in the right place at the right time and was able to buy a lot of 1st prints). At first I was getting between 20 and 30 dollars a piece, s and H not included. Near the end I was getting maybe six and seven. Intrest died down and no one cared. This will be the same thing. If you were to wait you can get this book as well.

[deworde]

I KNEW I KNEW I KNEW!!!!

http://bloodsweat.blogspot.com

January 19 entry, I proclaimed that Captain America would be shot by Sharon Carter, Agent 13.

I am not a retailer but I did figure it out, and no one believed me!

The convo between Ms Marvel and Spiderwoman takes place BEFORE cap 25


I predicted Spidey removing his mask in 2 months early. Seemed an obvious development to me. And yet everyone was saying "He'd never do that" when it happened.

[johnchrist]

after reading the news I called my LCS at 11:45 am on Wednesday, sold out. The store opens at 11. I'm fine with getting it later, or getting a second printing, honestly I don't read Cap and was jsut curious how it happened (only got into cap during CW saga and not much of a buyer for collection sake anyways), plus I like how it jsut hit us all on Wednesday the way it did. BAM! Completely by surprise, which is rare, and a nice surprise

[StudioNFC]

whatever, then. Have the same relationship, be responsible for bringing millions in the door like Marvel and DC, and you can do it, too.

MattB

Don't get me wrong, I'm not dogging Marvel for making money. They're a business. Who can blame them for that?

In fact to be fair, I suppose my main beef should be with Diamond in general for allowing such a bull crap solicitation to go through in the first place. Retailers aren't the only ones who read Previews. Fans too (as I'm sure you know this).

I understand Marvel didn't want to have a spoiler on all of this, simply due to the fact it was such a big issue. And I can appreciate that. But this all reeks, of sliding in something under the buyers and retailers noses so they won't notice and then will get all in an uproar over to attract attention to Marvel in the end.

Am I wrong?

If so then why is this entire thing ALL OVER Newsarama?

It certainly isn't because of the fact that Cap "died". He's died before and there wasn't a big hubbabaloo like there is now.

My point is, The solicitation that was released was unfair to retailers because they weren't given proper notice (notice I use the word "proper" and not the word "any") of how big this issue would be. Which in turn screwed fans over.

Hey I've got a web comic. And in my next issue a main character dies. Now in pimping my next issue on various internet sites, I'm not being sneaky or anything of the sort. I'm coming out and telling people "Hey someone WILL die." I then put up a poll for reader to vote on who they thought it would be that would kick the bucket. And I'm currently getting over 10,000 hits for my web comic. So it isn't like only a few people are reading it. And since I've put up the poll, my hits have increased dramatically. If this were a print comic (which I plan to print everything as a graphic novel once all is said and done), and I had to do a solicitation for diamond I could easily say that a main character dies and the reader will be shocked by who it is, without giving away the big surprise. In fact then it would cause speculation as to who it would be that was kicking the bucket.

Marvel had a bull crap solicitation. Plain and simple. But I suppose the main fault lies with Diamond who didn't tell Marvel, "Look, this has the potential to piss off a lot of retailers, and more importantly so, fans, if you choose to be so vague".

Marvel could have easily done the same thing and gotten the same huge surprise and reaction. And retailers would have increased their numbers for their sales to where there wouldn't be this kind of circus about all of it now.

So all in all to be fair, Marvel made a bad solicitation. But that's ok. Everyone makes mistakes. And if one feels it wasn't a mistake, then fine. But if we, who do feel it was a FUBAR, can grant Marvel the fact, that the vague solicitation was just a mistake that Diamond should have picked up on, then those who don't feel it was a mistake can just as easily grant those of us with a differing opinion, the same respect we are showing Marvel, when we say "Hey you goofed. No big deal. Hopefully it won't happen the next time Captain America 'dies'."

Just because I have a differing opinion on if the solicitation was bad or not, is no reason for anyone to be mean.

Marvel made a bad solicitation. It was far too vague for retailers. But it was DIAMOND who dropped the ball and didn't come back to Marvel and tell them to do something about it before the solicitation went to press.

That's my opinion. If someone has a different one, that's cool. But let's at least be "Civil".

[StudioNFC]

Not being rude but I was replying to my response and it was meant to be sarcastic because I had noticed u had said it a few times above my comment. I'm at work typing in between calls so by the time I had typed all of that those other comments had allready been sent in. So I missed all of those. Will I go back and edit my response...Of course not!!!

A little sensitive are we not??:rolleyes:

No. Not sensitive. I just can't fathom how your sarcasm adds anything to the conversation.:rolleyes:

[NoBoundaries]

after reading the news I called my LCS at 11:45 am on Wednesday, sold out. The store opens at 11. I'm fine with getting it later, or getting a second printing, honestly I don't read Cap and was jsut curious how it happened (only got into cap during CW saga and not much of a buyer for collection sake anyways), plus I like how it jsut hit us all on Wednesday the way it did. BAM! Completely by surprise, which is rare, and a nice surprise

Sorry John, but you'r the exception to the rule, you have to pay $20 for the second printing.

Just kidding, I'll have a first printing for you. At regular price. Which nowadays seems to be $3.99, love inflation.:cool:

[borghe]

To be fair to Marvel and Diamond, lousy solicitations make it into Previews all the time. Have you bothered ever looking at the solicitations for like Walking Dead or Girls? One sentence if you are lucky. And I know there are others that are just as bad on a regular basis. People aren't crying over this because it was a bad solicitation but because they under ordered and now have to wait up to two weeks to get additional copies. Let's stop talking about the solicitation because we as retailers have ordered dozens of titles on just as bad of solicitations.

The real issue here is Marvel giving us very little advance notice (if I knew I had the authority to I would post the snippets from the two retailer mailers. it wasn't much, trust me). Fortunately they are making up for it on the huge overprint. If it wasn't for the overprint I would agree with much of the negativity in this thread, but the overprint being in Memphis by tonight shows that Marvel had thought this through.

As for Diamond allowing the solicitation through, think about that word for a second. Solicitation. Who is soliciting it? Not Diamond but Marvel. Why should Diamond care what copy Marvel puts through to sell their books? That's just kind of dumb to think Diamond should care.

[dudlyl]

It's called taking a risk. Besides it was rumour Captain America was supposed to die, Marvel said to order Civil War type numbers, the daggone next box in 24 had a cover with blood on it. So even if they didn't kill him, they may have crippled him, which would still cause a media blitz...so in the long run those who refused to take a risk..we left out to dry and those who did take the risk were rewarded handsomely that's that way it goes sometimes.

I'm sure this was a rare announcement. Marvel almost never puts out the word that retailers should up their orders if something newsworthy wasn't gonna be in the book. They wouldn't go through all of the effort to tell the retailers to up their orders if something newsworthy wasn't in the book. In the end it's about putting two and two together and many retailers did not put two and two together so they had no copies to sell of the issue.

This will last about two weeks, maybe a month and then the interest will die down.
Remember death in Marvel means never having to say I died and stayed dead.
So save your hard earned money and wait for the trade which will probaly be released before the summer.

[ChaosMcKenzie]

my problem is as a retailer... we reordered/backordered a large number of Cap #25 on wednesday morning when we discovered we were going to sell out to a bunch of new to comics yuppies who came in for ten copies or more (HA one guy at the store more the death of Superman pinned to his chest with an arrow pointing at how little it's worth today)... but I'm not getting very many Cap 25's next week... and I was way before the Thursday at noon cut off...

errrg... confused...

[DARTH NOOBIE]

Anyone could predict Spidey unmasking. When CW was announced, and they mentioned the long lasting ramifications for Spidey I said to my wife they're gonna unmask him. Spidey has been around for 43 years, the only things that haven't happened to him are putting him in a dress, make him gay (solves that marriage problem), and revealing his identity.

[StudioNFC]

To be fair to Marvel and Diamond, lousy solicitations make it into Previews all the time. Have you bothered ever looking at the solicitations for like Walking Dead or Girls? One sentence if you are lucky. And I know there are others that are just as bad on a regular basis. People aren't crying over this because it was a bad solicitation but because they under ordered and now have to wait up to two weeks to get additional copies. Let's stop talking about the solicitation because we as retailers have ordered dozens of titles on just as bad of solicitations.

The real issue here is Marvel giving us very little advance notice (if I knew I had the authority to I would post the snippets from the two retailer mailers. it wasn't much, trust me). Fortunately they are making up for it on the huge overprint. If it wasn't for the overprint I would agree with much of the negativity in this thread, but the overprint being in Memphis by tonight shows that Marvel had thought this through.

As for Diamond allowing the solicitation through, think about that word for a second. Solicitation. Who is soliciting it? Not Diamond but Marvel. Why should Diamond care what copy Marvel puts through to sell their books? That's just kind of dumb to think Diamond should care.


Oh I agree with you bad solicitations make it through all the time. I've read some real crappers.

But this bad solicitation is what caused retailers to not order high enough numbers.

And Diamond DOES care about your solicitation. They make money off of it too.

[DarkJared]

Retailers were likewise kept in the dark on the issue’s contents, however, along with Editor in Chief Joe Quesada and others, Marvel Sr. VP of Sales David Gabriel urged retailers to order heavily on <b>Captain America #25</b>, suggesting that there could be media attention on the issue, noting that, in his view, ordering at <b>Civil War</b> level numbers would be a safe bet.

Hah - civil war numbers weren't a safe bet for Civil War! I am sleeping on stacks of Civil War comics I ordered heavily on at the 'advice' of Marvel that it was THE event of the year for Marvel. I can't give them away now. (anyone want issues 3-7 I have them at 50% off!) Gonna start shredding them for cat litter....

The warning we got in our regular marvel mailers was this: Retailers are advised to order heavily on this title.

Woohoo - thanks for the heads up. Don't you advise this on every title you are trying to sell us? What sales people don't advise their clients to buy lots of their products? I read every Marvel mailer thoroughly and I don't recal anything that said this is gonna be a massive important issue where the biggest event in Marvel comics history short of the actual creation of the characters is gonna happen. I'd even take this kindof warning: Everyone who collects comics will want to buy this issue even if they hate Marvel because it will be worth something once it comes out.

It's the death of one of Marvels 3 oldest characters and the one of those three regularly featured in multiple titles. Give us something!

This is so a case of the boy who cried wolf - After Civil War and the solicits and warnings I can't trust Marvel for any kind of ordering advice - the least they can do is give us good solicits that tell us what is happenning so we can order accordingly. Hell - I'd sign a confidentiallity waiver if they wanted but you need info to be successful at this biz. I can't just order 100 Captain America comics cause they said I should order heavy - particularly since I blew my blind investment money on CW. As good as the book is ordering 10 is heavy if I only sell 5 a month normally. But I had walk-ins cleaning me out just like back in the good old days of Superman #75 - people who've never bought a comic and never will again.

(oh and by the way the 'massive' overprint is already sold out... in one day. I'm turning people away or putting them on a no-claim waitlist for what I was able to reorder in time.)

[borghe]

But this bad solicitation is what caused retailers to not order high enough numbers.

And Diamond DOES care about your solicitation. They make money off of it too.
but short of announcing it, what the hell could have marvel solicited that would have sold through "correct" amounts of CAPTAIN AMERICA 25. Emphasis mine just to point out that we are talking about a decent selling book, but one that it would normally be tough to sell something major going on in.

As for Diamond, given the ebb and flow of the industry, each publisher in general and each title and single issue in particular, I can almost promise you they don't care about individual solicitations.

The warning we got in our regular marvel mailers was this: Retailers are advised to order heavily on this title.
heh.. thank you for posting this. now I know I can't get in trouble :P And for the record, we received this same line in two mailers before FOC. I don't know where the "Civil War numbers" comment came from.. maybe a con or something. However as a small retailer I can't really be expected to make it to every con to get my ordering advice. :\

[DoctorTom]

Matt,

Thanks for getting the interview and putting up this article. I know the handling of the ordering has been one of the tops a lot of us had been discussing in the other Cap threads, and I'm glad to see an interview with Marvel about the business side of this - good journalistic followup. I'll look forward to seeing the retail response on Monday.

I don't recall hearing Marvel make any mention before of possible media coverage, so was surprised to see it mentioned here. Of course, it might have been something that was just dismissed as the 'same old hype' earlier when it wasn't. Does anyone recall when Marvel might have mentioned media coverage of Cap 25?


Not much else to add yet to this thread - I've talked about this topic in other threads and haven't seen the need yet to repeat what I said there. I did think, though, that Matt deserves an 'attaboy' for following up on an aspect of the whole Cap 25 situation that got a lot of people flam...er...talking :)

[pez dispenser]

Uh, does anyone remember "The Death of Superman"? This is just another publicity stunt on Marvel's part. They will being Cap back in a year or so and make you all run to the stores and buy his return issue. I am just waiting for Thor to return.

Don't be a tool and let them play you like a fiddle...

Awwwwwwww.....need a tissue?
;-)

Chalk up another winning publicity stunt for Marvel!

[erikthered25]

heh.. thank you for posting this. now I know I can't get in trouble :P And for the record, we received this same line in two mailers before FOC. I don't know where the "Civil War numbers" comment came from.. maybe a con or something. However as a small retailer I can't really be expected to make it to every con to get my ordering advice. :\

And the retailer can't expect marvel or dc to offer full disclosure on this type of thing also. So you know what in the end, there will be some major one issue events such as this you just don't get in on because at the end of the day they are trying to get fellow comicbook fans to buy the issue and non-comic books fans to buy the book. I know to some folks it sounds like a whole bunch of malarky but that's what they were attempting to do. I myself am happy that at least one comicbook company with the resources is trying to help spread the comicbook world beyond our little niche and make it part of the mainstream even more. In the long run when you trying to do something like that, you will make mistakes and you will break a few eggs but it's a necessary thing to do to make comics not only a niche market but a mainstream market as well.

I know someone may say that when they show up and the comic is not there they'll leave without buying, etc..etc.. etc.. but it's just like books when folks show up to the store and all copies of a Steven Kings Dark Tower VII or any other red hot novel is sold out, some will leave and go somewhere else, other will leave and be like well I guess I won't read it, while others will inquire when will your new shipment come in and then they'll come back for it at a later date.

[zengoth]

I'm sorry to hear that.

This tatic hurts everyone in the long and short run. The retailer who is seen as shady , the buyer who feels screwed, Marvel who indirectly will be associated with this act, and the industry that seems to say that this good to do.

I honestly would say to voice your opinion directly to them by telling them, MARVEL has said there will be enough copies that even in 100 years there will over a million copies of #25 available so don't screw with me cuz I need my fix (little exageration never hurts) or simply go to another shop if there is one.

I'll put this offer on the table now, when I receive my order and fill the rest of my pull list members that want it. I will more than gladly ship out a copy at regular cover price plus postage to anyone being screwed at a regular priced copy.

:cool:

Very cool. I'll definately keep you in mind...

[DarkJared]

And the retailer can't expect marvel or dc to offer full disclosure on this type of thing also.

Why not? they are in the business of selling new comics - not inflating the back issue market. I could have sold 20 times what I ordered in one day if I had the stock - based on my waitlist. Why not be straight up with the people who are selling the books for them. It works only to their advantage and ours. win - Win. They could have sold a ton more copies than they printed if they had only given us the info up front. hell they would have had even more media coverage as it could have gone on longer. Killing Cap was way more important to the mass-media than civil war was - they'd have been all over it for weeks leading up to it.

Sure they'll sell second and thrid prints etc but the demand will have died by then. Strike while the iron is hot and go gonzo on the first print. I would have if I'd only known something would actually happen in the issue worthy of the hype.

Oh and to clarify a concept - in your LCS have you ever noticed the back issue bins? Those are books that have sold out at Marvel and Diamond too - but not at the retailer. If it hasn't sold out at the retialer it is not sold out. Cap #25 is the first book I've sold out of in a long time and I'll wager one of the first books from either Marvel or DC that has truly sold out in the first week at the retailer level warranting a second print in the last 5 years.

[IronWolf]

I saw Both covers going on Ebay for like a hundred some thing bucks on wendsday! i kept thinking it was thursday and thinking i really missed out all comics must have sold out, but ifound it on Midtowncomics web site for regular price. rock i want to read this comic. and yell NOOOOOOOOO as my wife tell me i'm an geek. its a fetish lol

[coy_dog0]

Not the readers and not comic books in general. Is a cheap publicity stunt the ONLY way comics can get on CNN ?

Here's a question for Joe Quesada:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwPZsSgoXP0

What did you gain ???

[Gridironham]

It's called taking a risk. Besides it was rumour Captain America was supposed to die, Marvel said to order Civil War type numbers, the daggone next box in 24 had a cover with blood on it. So even if they didn't kill him, they may have crippled him, which would still cause a media blitz...so in the long run those who refused to take a risk..we left out to dry and those who did take the risk were rewarded handsomely that's that way it goes sometimes.

I'm sure this was a rare announcement. Marvel almost never puts out the word that retailers should up their orders if something newsworthy wasn't gonna be in the book. They wouldn't go through all of the effort to tell the retailers to up their orders if something newsworthy wasn't in the book. In the end it's about putting two and two together and many retailers did not put two and two together so they had no copies to sell of the issue.

I love it!:D
You post is meant as satire, right?
:D
dave

[Tupper1979]

Someone call the Waaaaa-bulance.

I think a lot of you forget that Comics is first and foremost a business. They need to make money to survive. I've seen this sort of thing done before, and you're flat out wrong if you say it was handled poorly. Here's the specifics;

- book has widely respected talent behind it putting out quality work for the past 2 years.

- major character that was at an (apparent) empass due to storyline (this is a good thing BTW).

- opportunity to create buzz surrounding the end of a major event and continue to keep spotlight on the industry.

- controversial death of said major character.

Who benefits? Everyone. Marvel makes money and has plenty of spotlight turned on their just ended Civil War story and current Marvel Universe storylines. Retailers have increased foot traffic in their stores as curious people wander in due to media attention, potentially leading to more sales. Fans see an exciting development by an established creative team.

Where's the loss there people? I see money being made and creativity continuing.

I think too many of you have been burned by fake-out deaths over the years that when deaths with purpose happen it seems cheap and ham-fisted. Of course, anyone with a third grade education can see a fake cheap death when they happen (hello Xavier's death in recent Ultimate X-Men comics).

Bottom line here is if you don't read or like Cap, then shut the hell up about it already. Brubaker and Epting have done a hell of a good job so far, so let them keep going. And stop complaining about the marketing aspect. If you hippie sensibilites can't stand "The MAN" making money from poor 'gullable' Jimmy because another comic character has died, then please, for all our sakes, move to Amish country and take up butter churning.

[hosstbl]

<b>David Gabriel</b>: No retailers were told anything other than the "classified" aspect of the event.


When you consider how many copies the Wizard Group had up on EBay early Wednesday morning at heavily inflated prices, I'd don't think it's unreasonable for an intelligent person to conclude that this is bull ____. Plus apparently the Wizard folks don't have a diamond account and don't get their books through diamond.

[beta-ray]

I fear that retailers who didn't order massively are going to lose out long term. people who are just interested in CA will come in, hear you don't have it, and leave. People who are charging usurous prices will win short-term, but will draw back very few new customers.

I hope stores are taking names and numbers for those coming issues. And people need to realize that the books coming today ARE STILL FIRST PRINTING.

And the guys on ebay getting a hundred bucks an issue...well, the less said about them the better.

Who knows. Risk is part of business everywhere.

I do take heart in this though...

The good news is that we heard of record days on Wednesday from more than one retailer, indicating that Captain America wasn't all that was selling.

http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/10210.html

[beta-ray]

The warning we got in our regular marvel mailers was this: Retailers are advised to order heavily on this title.

Woohoo - thanks for the heads up. Don't you advise this on every title you are trying to sell us?

No.

Do you have proof that they say this for every title?

[DarkJared]

No.

Do you have proof that they say this for every title?


Deep discount ordering offers that come to retailers almost every month. Plus months and months of marvel mailers (the email that goes out only to retailer accounts through diamond from Marvel sales dept.) where they entice us to buy the 'big' issue that month or the big event that will change the marvel universe. We are advised to order big on all sorts of books in one way or another whether it's hype and hyperbole or good old fashioned sales lingo. They maybe have not used those exact words on other books regularly but any retailer here will tell you that that warning does not stand out amongst the rest of the sales trash we have to sift through each week. Certainly not adequate warning for an event and sales opportunity of this magnitude that is going to attract so many people from outside the regulars in our stores.

It's sales. I challenge you to name a sales man or group who doesn't want me to buy lots of what they are selling...??

[sniperboy65]

Awwwwwwww.....need a tissue?
;-)

Chalk up another winning publicity stunt for Marvel!





"There's an old saying in Tennessee — I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can't get fooled again." —President George W. Bush, Nashville, Tenn., Sept. 17, 2002

[JLAJRC]

Now we're name calling. Deceit. It's Marvels job to hype their product. You're trying to get people to purchase your product you have to hype your product a little to get the interested. Also most folks hated the fact that Marvel U (616) and the Ultimate line were meeting so early. So I'm assuming that they were pleasantly surprise that they were actually meeting the Zombie Marvel Universe and not the regular one. Sentry they were trying to introduce a new character, so what if they told us that he had been around forever. They just used a little misdirection. It's used all of the time. No Man's Land was partly build on misdirection and someone operating in the background trying to buy up all of Gotham which turned out to be Lex Luther. Come on this is nothing new. The internet had made it almost impossible for anything to be kept a secret or to be kept silent so they use a little misdirection so surprises like Cap America dying could happen. There is nothing wrong with that. What makes this Cap America thing so awesome is that no one saw it coming. It heralds to the time when before the net became so common place, you didn't know what to expect when you went to ur comic book box.

Exactly. Sentry was a fun hoax. As for the F4 thing, all they did was show the cover, and the fans jumped to conclusions (as they usually do).

[skinnyboy23]

My only (minor) gripe? Finding the Ed McGuinness variant cover in my pull instead of the more visually impressive standard cover, then not being able to swap it because of the sellout.

My EXACT EXACT problem.

[ANGELDOGGIE]

Does anyone have any idea what this is?
I think it's the small picture at the bottom of the letters page of Cap#24. that's what I think.;)-----------------I POSTED THIS AFTER READING ONLY HALF OF THE FIRST PAGE. SHOULD'VE WAITED A BIT LONGER. TO THE COUPLE OF POSTS THAT STATED THE SAME GUESS......I THINK YOUR RIGHT!! ( glad I got to edit this)

[edyhdrawde]

You know the sad thing is, this issue has made for greedy store owners and it's sad. I've been around the comic business since I was twelve, even owning my own store in my mid twenties, I'm mid thirties now, anyway, Captain America #25 made me ashamed to have been involved with this medium that I love so much. I went to the closest comic store to my house Wednesday before noon, they open at 11 an, and I was told that Cap was sold out. I go into the same store today and find out that they weren't sold out. After pulling for subs, the owner set aside the issues he had left over and today was selling them, both covers, for $40 a pop. I find that sad and pitiful enough. Then I hear him tell a subscriber who had Cap on his pull list and didn't receive it, that he didn't have anymore left, but he would get him a second printing when they became available. All the while it sitting on his wall for $40. You know it's bad enough to screw the guy walking in off the street, but to do the same to a loyal customer is a disgrace. It's time like this that make me hate the people involved in this business.

[brothereye]

"NRAMA: Obviously, you’re not going to give numbers, but just in terms of a ballpark - how large was the overprint on Captain America #25 compared to its initial orders?

DG: Let's just say we did the largest ever."
This is my only problem with this par