CAPTAIN AMERICA: THE FALLOUT - DAY 3

[MattBrady]

<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/CapAmerica/DDream/cap25-variant.jpg" border="0" align="right"><b>SPOILER FOR CAPTAIN AMERICA #25</b>

It’s another day, Captain America is still dead, and the news keeps rolling. To start things off, as we reported yesterday, Cap’s death was the feature of last night’s “THE WØRD” segment on Comedy Central’s <i>The Colbert Report</i>:

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Rolling on with the early reports form various media:

Hey - Cap made the <i>LA Times</i> Editorial page as the subject of an impassioned view (http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-heilbrunn9mar09,1,7493354.story) by Jacob Heilbrunn.

An excerpt:

<i>FORGET THE endless congressional debates about Iraq. The most telling measure of America's current distemper can be found in a more mundane place * in the gory assassination of Captain America in issue No. 25, which hit the stands Wednesday.

The startling demise of Captain America, who until recently had been leading an underground insurgency against a government 9/11-style "Superhuman Registration Act" that forced superheroes to divulge their secret identities, captures the growing sense that America itself is floundering in the war on terrorism.

That message hasn't been missed by conservatives such as Michael Medved, who complains that Captain America is setting a terrible example for America's youth by turning soft on terrorism and is "anti-American." But a look at Captain America's evolution over the decades suggests he should not be dismissed so easily. In fact, Marvel Comics has almost always had a perfect feel for America and its moods.</i>

And also, or, of course, the news made <i>The Onion</i> (http://www.theonion.com/content/amvo/captain_america_killed) with our favorite quote of all:

<i>Diego Lopez, Florist "Oh, man! Why are all the really cool assassinations wasted on make-believe people?"</i>

Newsweek (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17534644/site/newsweek/) - so far just online, but may appear in next week's print edition.

We'll keep the updates coming as we find them...

[AAB]

Brubaker and Epting have produced some great work with Captain America.

Imagine if Marvel Comics knew how to market and advertise their works of fiction in a way that has mass appeal appreciation for artistic creativity and thought provoking discussions instead of event headline driven sparks like on Colbert Report and CNN -Any press is good press to begin with though, but it is useless if it ends where it started, in a hype machine ("Civil War: The Return" and Marvel Comics Tsunami and Next line of books).

I guess Disney did not become the number one merchandising behemoth by being thought provoking, yet some recent Marvel Comics stories have shown depth (Bendis/Gaydos' insightful "Alias", Bendis/Maleev's "Daredevil", Morrision/Quitely first arc on "New X-Men", Morrison/Lee's "Fantastic Four 1234", Milligan/Allred on "X-Force" and "X-Statix", Millar/Hitch's epic "Ultimates", Ellis/Granov's "Ironman: Extremis" story, and Quesada's "Daredevil Father") and provide some great entertainment no matter how old one is. I still think that even though the event driven headlines can stir a buzz in the mainstream, this should be followed up via some interviews and articles conveying the quality work that Marvel has produced in the past 7 years.

This type of marketing/advertising could instigate more than a pop cultural movement in a generation that could enjoy inspiring and insightful stories along with spending their money on some Marvel brand associated goods. You would feel that your spending is justified in valuing quality and cutting edge art and entertainment.

[Korkuss]

I'm still sad about it...

:(

Hum? First post??? Wahooo

[Korkuss]

Ow!!!

Second post...

[durkadurka]

Geez, with all this media attention, they kind of have to keep him dead now. At least until Bush is out of office.

[KWillyVox]

I hope Steve Rogers comes back some day, hands over the Captain America mantle to Bucky, then gets married to Sharon and raises a family, has 2.1 children, buys aluminum siding, and drives a Ford Truck. Let Steve live the American Dream for once.

[Moriarty]

My roommate and I caught Colbert last night and had a good chuckle (more so him at my reaction to Colbert's Batcave reference). The "Hasn't Filed taxes since '44" and "Pick a Side, Wolverine" did get a LOL from me, though.

[dwiese]

I just wish that Marvel would have given some heads-up to the shops that they may need to order a few more copies than usual. It's not spoiling it to tell owners to order a couple more copies. Lots of annoyed regulars at the shop I go to.

http://www.pulllist.com/comic/marvel_comics/captain_america/25

[scorpion mk]

i find it funny how some columns/news program's are reacting to Captain America's death, they sound no better than Sally Floyd's question's to Cap in CW:FL#11

[JTempos500]

I just wish that Marvel would have given some heads-up to the shops that they may need to order a few more copies than usual. It's not spoiling it to tell owners to order a couple more copies. Lots of annoyed regulars at the shop I go to.

http://www.pulllist.com/comic/marvel_comics/captain_america/25

Marvel did tell retailers to order heavy. But, alas, without a promise of returnability, a lot of retailers didn't want to get burned and ended up getting burned in the process.

[RocketeerZ]

<img src="http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/CapAmerica/DDream/cap25-variant.jpg" border="0" align="right"> In fact, Marvel Comics has almost always had a perfect feel for America and its moods.</i>

I don't know about that... to tell you the truth, I feel that Marvel actually finds themselves constantly in "catch up mode". Maybe they do a good job once they've realized they're behind and storm forward as good as anyone, but having a perfect feel? Can't agree.

I thought the issue was well handled... count me among the hordes that hasn't really read much Capt. Amercia over the years... I've read it on and off... it's actually been more of a finance issue (me having to choose what books I read based upon my comics budget) than anything else... I haven't found Capt to be quite.. well... relevant to me (such as Superman often has not been) and it usually does take some sort of "event" for me to give it a shot... but each time I do and give it a few issues it's kind of blended back into the same mold and I've wound up dropping it again (just as I've done with Superman over the years).

While I don't think killing Cap off is a "desperation" move on Marvel's part looking for as much publicity as possible, such as I've heard some people say, but I do think there is some calcuation on the editorial mind to try and sway some focus off the negatives that have come from HOUSE OF M and CIVIL WAR. By negatives I mean continuity issues, characters acting totally unlike their past selves or acting almost incompetent, lateness issues, lukewarm to bad reviews, etc... No one can argue that Civil War was a HUGE sales success... and I (despite being a DC guy) did get into the first few issues, which I thought were handled well, but by issue 3 it was slipping and I felt the entire thing just spirialed out of control from a story and characterization standpoint (although I do agree that the ending was most likely just about the best -- and maybe even most realistic -- scenario they could have given). HOUSE OF M was, in my opinion, a disaster from a story and charatcerization standpoint. It seriously ranks up there with the worst comic "events" such as Secret Wars 2 and War of the Gods. It was just bad. I read it... and i Paid for it... but to this day I don't know why.

In the end, this feels very, very familar. It is, basically, THE DEATH OF SUPERMAN all over again. I can think about about three or four plausable ways that Steve Rogers can eventually come back... and my gut says he'll be back no later than 2009. I give credit to Marvel for getting themselves back into the mainstream press promotional wave, but I do feel that this was a move to try as hard as possible to circumvent the success DC has been seeing since ID CRISIS all the way through the start of COUNTDOWN. in the end, it does kind of reek of desperation, but if good stories come along with it... hey... don't we all win? Here's hoping some good stories and directions come from this. I do not have a tremendous amount of faith in Joe Quesada, but I'll give the writers the benefit of the doubt.

[jaredgood1]

"There are two things you can't argue in film: comedy and erotica. If something doesn't make you laugh, no one can tell you why it's funny, and likewise, it's hard to argue someone out of an erection." Roger Ebert

Colbert isn't funny.

[Mr Prince]

I love that some of the neocon pundits (I use the term pundit loosely, as most are not experts, past sharing an opinion and often in bad taste or hysterics) are commenting on it and turning it into an issue. As usual, the American punditry (either liberal or conservative, this time conservative) are grabbing onto a character that's easy for people to grasp and using it as a soapbox instead of dealing with real issues in our gov't, civil service leaders, and the lies and mendacity that have been perpetuated.

I remember some of this happening when the phrase "lipstick lesbian Batwoman" hit the AP.

Perhaps it needs to appear in a comic book format for them to follow up on the Scooter Libby sentencing and the bigger picture of what that means for the current administration.

Civil War has definitely been interesting from a literary-allusion standpoint of the issues facing us.

<Politico rant over>

Happy Friday everyone... All the best...

Scott

[DoctorTom]

[QUOTE=MattBradyHey - Cap made the <i>LA Times</i> Editorial page as the subject of an impassioned view (http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-heilbrunn9mar09,1,7493354.story) by Jacob Heilbrunn.

(snip):

That message hasn't been missed by conservatives such as Michael Medved, who complains that Captain America is setting a terrible example for America's youth by turning soft on terrorism and is "anti-American." </i>
[/QUOTE]


Does anyone have the original source for Michael Medved? I'd like to know if he actually said this the way the LA Times reported it. But, someone saying Cap's turning soft on terrorism obviously hasn't actually been reading Cap. Maybe he should go read 21st Century Blitz and see if he feels the same. Even with Cap not quite reflecting the majority of the American population in Civil War, though, it still seems hilarious (in a scary way) to be referring to Captain America as "anti-American".

[NotAnIssue]

In the end, this feels very, very familar. It is, basically, THE DEATH OF SUPERMAN all over again. I can think about about three or four plausable ways that Steve Rogers can eventually come back... and my gut says he'll be back no later than 2009. I give credit to Marvel for getting themselves back into the mainstream press promotional wave, but I do feel that this was a move to try as hard as possible to circumvent the success DC has been seeing since ID CRISIS all the way through the start of COUNTDOWN. in the end, it does kind of reek of desperation, but if good stories come along with it... hey... don't we all win? Here's hoping some good stories and directions come from this. I do not have a tremendous amount of faith in Joe Quesada, but I'll give the writers the benefit of the doubt.

You're confused. You start by saying that this is exactly like "Death of Superman" (why, because a major character died?)...then you follow right up with "he'll be back by 2009''....if this was like DoS, he'd be back within a year.

This story has nothing to do with trying to out-do whatever DC Comics is doing...it's about telling a good, epic story.

[KingMattress]

...yet some recent Marvel Comics stories have shown depth (Bendis/Maleev's work in "Alias"...
Bendis and Maleev did Daredevil, another good example. You're looking for Gaydos there.

[Ian]

You're confused. You start by saying that this is exactly like "Death of Superman" (why, because a major character died?)...then you follow right up with "he'll be back by 2009''....if this was like DoS, he'd be back within a year.

This story has nothing to do with trying to out-do whatever DC Comics is doing...it's about telling a good, epic story.

He didn't make that comparison up. It's Marvel and the media who made that comparison first in some of their press releases.

[adwomack]

I just wish that Marvel would have given some heads-up to the shops that they may need to order a few more copies than usual. It's not spoiling it to tell owners to order a couple more copies. Lots of annoyed regulars at the shop I go to.

http://www.pulllist.com/comic/marvel_comics/captain_america/25

I believe they have been saying for some time that Cap #25 was going to be an important issue. They say that alot, but I remember it being mentioned several times. And the cover imagine has been available for some time as well if I'm not mistaken, so there were some hints that something big was happening.

They have also said that they massivly over-printed the issue so stores can still get more issues, they just have to wait a week.

I know it sucks for people to have to wait, but when trying to keep a story like this secret, I believe they did about a good a job as possible.

[DoctorTom]

As usual, the American punditry (either liberal or conservative, this time conservative) are grabbing onto a character that's easy for people to grasp and using it as a soapbox instead of dealing with real issues in our gov't, civil service leaders, and the lies and mendacity that have been perpetuated.

Scott

Grabbing something and using it as a soapbox instead of dealing with the real issues that thing deals with? It seems like any of us forum posters would at least meet those qualifications! Where can we sign up to be political pundits? :)

[MattBrady]

I love that some of the neocon pundits (I use the term pundit loosely, as most are not experts, past sharing an opinion and often in bad taste or hysterics) are commenting on it and turning it into an issue. Eh - this is nothing. Wait until 300 gets rolling, and the idea that 300 true believers had to sacrifice themselves in the face of an unpopular military conflict in order to unite a country behind a cause - which just happened to be stopping Middle Eastern invaders - <i>that's</i> going to be an issue. :)

MattB

[Kolimar]

And the media reaction keeps going... :D

[DoctorTom]

Marvel did tell retailers to order heavy. But, alas, without a promise of returnability, a lot of retailers didn't want to get burned and ended up getting burned in the process.


You've made an extremely valid point here, which Marvel (and the other comics companies, for that matter) should consider. I can understand Marvel's not wanting to come out beforehand and just say to retailers "Hey guys, Cap's dying in this issue!", but Marvel just saying 'order heavy' doesn't convey the importance of the issue (they've said 'order heavy' before on things that turned out not nearly as important). The best thing to do is, along with advising people to order heavily, is to also inform the retailers that there will be a push in the major media about this story which should boost sales, and backing this up by making the orders fully returnable so that the retailers don't feel as much risk.

I don't know at what stage Marvel decided to have give the press information - quite easily after the Previews copy was solicited. It could have as easily just been the last week, when Marvel started getting inquiries from the press about Cap's death, that made them put together a press release. On the other hand, it could have been Marvel's press release prompting all the major media interest. I'd be interested in a timeline of how the information flow worked. Was Captain America #25 included last week in the advance comics mailed out to retailers? I suspect it hadn't or else we'd have heard the media mentioning it before Wednesday.

[Kolimar]

Eh - this is nothing. Wait until 300 gets rolling, and the idea that 300 true believers had to sacrifice themselves in the face of an unpopular military conflict in order to unite a country behind a cause - which just happened to be stopping Middle Eastern invaders - <i>that's</i> going to be an issue. :)

MattB

Heheheh... I hadn't thought about that :D

[WebHobbit]

Marvel did tell retailers to order heavy. But, alas, without a promise of returnability, a lot of retailers didn't want to get burned and ended up getting burned in the process.


http://www.pulllist.com/comic/marvel...ain_america/25



Why are the credits on CA25 all incorrect in that link?

[DoctorTom]

Eh - this is nothing. Wait until 300 gets rolling, and the idea that 300 true believers had to sacrifice themselves in the face of an unpopular military conflict in order to unite a country behind a cause - which just happened to be stopping Middle Eastern invaders - <i>that's</i> going to be an issue. :)

MattB

It started last weekend with some press members asking the producer which side was George Bush. I imagine that by the time of the Sunday talk shows we'll be full of the political commentary on it - most likely with very little or no comment on the previous movie '300 Spartans' or even the historical incident. We'll probably be able to use this movie as a political litmus test for any pundit out there. :-)

[Kolimar]

You've made an extremely valid point here, which Marvel (and the other comics companies, for that matter) should consider. I can understand Marvel's not wanting to come out beforehand and just say to retailers "Hey guys, Cap's dying in this issue!", but Marvel just saying 'order heavy' doesn't convey the importance of the issue (they've said 'order heavy' before on things that turned out not nearly as important). The best thing to do is, along with advising people to order heavily, is to also inform the retailers that there will be a push in the major media about this story which should boost sales, and backing this up by making the orders fully returnable so that the retailers don't feel as much risk.

I don't know at what stage Marvel decided to have give the press information - quite easily after the Previews copy was solicited. It could have as easily just been the last week, when Marvel started getting inquiries from the press about Cap's death, that made them put together a press release. On the other hand, it could have been Marvel's press release prompting all the major media interest. I'd be interested in a timeline of how the information flow worked. Was Captain America #25 included last week in the advance comics mailed out to retailers? I suspect it hadn't or else we'd have heard the media mentioning it before Wednesday.

Excellent points.

[caleb]

Damn you, Matt Brady! I totally forgot how much I missed having cable until I watched a clip of the Colbert Report!


Am I the only one who thinks the Captain Terror Alert level looks pretty sweet?

[JmH Reborn]

See if Colbert can see that Wolvie not picking a side and duking it out sucks balls why couldn't Marvel! Damn you Tom for not answering my question

AAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHH HHHHHHH

Whew...what's for breakfast folks?

[durkadurka]

"There are two things you can't argue in film: comedy and erotica. If something doesn't make you laugh, no one can tell you why it's funny, and likewise, it's hard to argue someone out of an erection." Roger Ebert

Colbert isn't funny.
Roger Ebert licks goats.

[Woody]

I hope Steve Rogers comes back some day, hands over the Captain America mantle to Bucky, then gets married to Sharon and raises a family, has 2.1 children, buys aluminum siding, and drives a Ford Truck. Let Steve live the American Dream for once.
maybe if it was still 1959, that would be the American Dream.

It's 2007

[jaredgood1]

Roger Ebert licks goats.
Licking goats does not invalidate the observation.

[durkadurka]

Licking goats does not invalidate the observation.
I don't know...how many people do you think would still think Stephen Hawking was so smart if word came out he was a goat licker?

[David_T]

"There are two things you can't argue in film: comedy and erotica. If something doesn't make you laugh, no one can tell you why it's funny, and likewise, it's hard to argue someone out of an erection." Roger Ebert

Colbert isn't funny.

But he does give people erections.

[jaredgood1]

I don't know...how many people do you think would still think Stephen Hawking was so smart if word came out he was a goat licker?
The same percentage of people who reelected Marion Berry after he was busted smoking crack.

[grayhulk76]

maybe if it was still 1959, that would be the American Dream.

It's 2007


I hope Steve Rogers comes back some day, hands over the Captain America mantle to Bucky, then co-habitates w/ Sharon, then seperates and raises a family & dog, has 1.856 children, buys vinyl and/or wood siding, and drives a Ford SUV, Hybrid, using a "flex fuel" engine. Let Steve live the American Dream for once. :D

[jaredgood1]

I hope Steve Rogers comes back some day, hands over the Captain America mantle to Bucky, then co-habitates w/ Sharon, then seperates and raises a family & dog, has 1.856 children, buys vinyl and/or wood siding, and drives a Ford SUV, Hybrid, using a "flex fuel" engine. Let Steve live the American Dream for once. :D

You're only missing two things: the little dog and the reality show. ;)

[erikthered25]

You've made an extremely valid point here, which Marvel (and the other comics companies, for that matter) should consider. I can understand Marvel's not wanting to come out beforehand and just say to retailers "Hey guys, Cap's dying in this issue!", but Marvel just saying 'order heavy' doesn't convey the importance of the issue (they've said 'order heavy' before on things that turned out not nearly as important). The best thing to do is, along with advising people to order heavily, is to also inform the retailers that there will be a push in the major media about this story which should boost sales, and backing this up by making the orders fully returnable so that the retailers don't feel as much risk.

I don't know at what stage Marvel decided to have give the press information - quite easily after the Previews copy was solicited. It could have as easily just been the last week, when Marvel started getting inquiries from the press about Cap's death, that made them put together a press release. On the other hand, it could have been Marvel's press release prompting all the major media interest. I'd be interested in a timeline of how the information flow worked. Was Captain America #25 included last week in the advance comics mailed out to retailers? I suspect it hadn't or else we'd have heard the media mentioning it before Wednesday.

Man I'm sick of all of this boohoo crying about not being told before hand. Marvel and DC has been fattening these retailers pockets for about 2-4 years now with Identity Crisis, Infinite Crisis, 52, House of M, Civil War so I can't believe that they are hurting for cash. My comic book dealer said that he made a killing off of Civil War. Civil War has been a media success and a retailer success so if they had to bite the bullet on this one, So be it. You can't get an exclusive for everything. Besides some retailer would have spoiled it anyway. Marvel told them to order heavy. I know they don't want to be stuck with issues but honestly if the word comes down the pipe to order heavy on this issue, I'd order heavy because the alternative is worse than having a few extra issues of Captain America on the shelf. Besides they had all that extra money lying around from Civil War, so many if not all could afford to order some extra books just incase something awesome is in the book. Then the flip side of this is that since they ordered light now, it's now a collector's item, they can jack up the price like they normally do. Also there had been rumours all along that Cap was going to die, business is about taking a chance. If I heard a rumour that Cap was going to die after Civil War and then Marvel advises me to up my issue on Cap #25. I would have put two and two together and upped my orders. Now I say sell those extra copies of Civil War, sell those extra Cap. America Copies you got on the shelf until the reprints get to ya this wednesday..

[durkadurka]

The same percentage of people who reelected Marion Berry after he was busted smoking crack.
Pssshh. As if smoking crack automatically makes you a crackhead.

[durkadurka]

Man I'm sick of all of this boohoo crying about not being told before hand. Marvel and DC has been fattening these retailers pockets for about 2-4 years now with Identity Crisis, Infinite Crisis, 52, House of M, Civil War so I can't believe that they are hurting for cash. My comic book dealer said that he made a killing off of Civil War. Civil War has been a media success and a retailer success so if they had to bite the bullet on this one, So be it...
The only flaw in your argument is that Marvel could've given retailers the option of full refund on any they want to return, like DC is doing for the first 4 issues of Countdown.

[Peter Price]

i find it funny how some columns/news program's are reacting to Captain America's death, they sound no better than Sally Floyd's question's to Cap in CW:FL#11

Kind of adds a bit of realisim to Floyd's character. I liked Frontline # 11 but I wonder if the critics who thought Paul Jenkins displayed bad writing on that issue would change their mind given the current comments by some members of the media.

[erikthered25]

Eh - this is nothing. Wait until 300 gets rolling, and the idea that 300 true believers had to sacrifice themselves in the face of an unpopular military conflict in order to unite a country behind a cause - which just happened to be stopping Middle Eastern invaders - <i>that's</i> going to be an issue. :)

MattB

I doubt that. The movie barely got a fresh rating on rottentomatoes.com. Which is strange because for about 2 weeks it was like at 100%, I guess it was comicbook lovers who reviewed it first and then the other media outlets reviewed it. It'll probably debut with little hoopla and then disappear and become a cult classic.

[Dave41Fan]

I take issue with it being Marvel's fault that "regulars" couldn't get their copies of Captain America.

Any comic book store worth its salt knows how many people read a given book. They track sales numbers at their own location. My local store owner was aware that not only was this going to have two copies, but it was also "important" as hyped by Marvel. Sure, the F.O.C. for the issue fell a week before Civil War 7, but that isn't the point. Civil War 7 did little to change what this book meant; that is, Cap being arrested could have been written independently of Cap dying. With this in mind (but not knowing what was in the book), my store nearly doubled its order. We went through our stock quickly on Wednesday, but all the people with Captain America on their pull lists got a copy as well as, I'd estimate, 40+ walk-in customers that don't normally read the series. For the first hour that the shop was open, I saw a few people picking it up, but not every customer grabbed it.

Now, after the severe overprint fills the reorders, we're going to have ten times what we started with. We going to be swimming in copies. Everyone that wants one should be able to get one. As for the mainstream press and casual fans, let's ask the other question: what if Marvel had announced this, Death of Superman style, in advance? Say, three weeks ago, in time for the F.O.C.? For three weeks, you'd have people coming in off the street asking for a copy of Captain America 25. Is it such a shame that comic stores would have to tell Joe Everyman that he has to wait three weeks then? Theoretically, the news would pick up on when the book comes out, but that's not the detail that many people will be looking for. Would you rather have everyone wait seven days, or three weeks?

The greater mainstream influence, in my opinion, is felt in the fact that another comic book hit the headlines. In the past year we've had 52 Week 11 (Batwoman), Dark Tower 1, and Cap 25. One might even argue that Civil War received moderate coverage, though certainly not as widespread as Batwoman and Captain America. With this happening more frequently, it puts the industry as a whole further into the public eye and moves it away from the "mid-20's slacker living in his parents' basement" perception.

Craig

[avery]

Well at least Cap's death got Anna Nichole's rotting corpse out of the news.

[whalemath]

I don't know...how many people do you think would still think Stephen Hawking was so smart if word came out he was a goat licker?

Whoa whoa whoa- who's to say goat licking is unintelligent?

[grayhulk76]

I think Marvel handled this "event" almost absolutely perfectly. Outside of the regular Cap mag customers not getting their copies (which didnt happen at my store, but it is too bad it happend at others :( ) Marvel has done a great job.

First, it seemed like alot of internet crowd was simply ragging on Civil War anyway. Ragging so much that the death of Cap is almost a positive outcome to everything !! :eek: I personalLy enjoyed CW, at least beTter than House of M, which wasnt "bad" but not as good as CW. As it was, i remember people who didnt like Cap in CW and I saw comments like "Cap should just cut his balls off..." or "Marvel cut Cap's balls off..." and some such nonsense....Well I hope people who ragged are happy because Marvel did a de-capitation. Is that better for all the whiners? :rolleyes:

Secondly, in terms of the collectibility of the book, collectibles are typically caused by people overlooking the importance of an object for sale, typically for pop consumption.

With this you get both of these two ideas, a generator of criticism from "fans" and the collectibility of an issue that "slid under the radar," coming together to create a great experience IMHO.

If Marvel had advertised this as such, the "fans" would be ragging before during and after the event. Instead the same jaded and/or pissed fans are out trying to sell their issues or buy the same issues, for $25 a pop, or a little more a little less. And theres a little less complaiing going on to boot.

...quite a media event and quite a stealthful, yet humble, strategy, in any case.

meanwhile, I think the best way to enjoy the event is realized that there is a great potential for interesting, and hopefully enjoyable, comic story telling to be created, as well as maybe bring in a few more comic fans and boost the industry's bottem line.

I have been alot more excited about DC in the last few years but my hat is off to Marvel on this one. Now lest hope all the regular Cap fans get their copies of this remarkable issue.

It seems to me that Marvel crossed the Delaware in the dead of night, when no one was expecting it, and surprised everyone at Trenton....and beyond.

I think the big two should do this more often. When you think about it, alot of the great comic books were exactly like this event: "below the radar," and then their importance grew later, and before readers realized what was going on, there were some really special and iconic(Btman, Supes, Spidy, FF, JLA, etc..), or icono-clastic(Watchmen, JonahHex, Ghostrider, Punisher, Preacher, etc...), issues & stories being created, that caused fans to be inspired by great writing and art.

cheers and enjoy the ride folks.

[erikthered25]

The only flaw in your argument is that Marvel could've given retailers the option of full refund on any they want to return, like DC is doing for the first 4 issues of Countdown.

That's apples to oranges. DC is giving a refund because the retailers have to order months in advance on about 8 issues they have not seen yet as opposed to ordering just 1 issue. Because they have to order I think 2 months in advance then thats 8 books you're ordering sight unseen and if it's a flop you don't have time to adjust, you're just outta money. You don't see bookstores having to asking book sellers for a 100% refund. When they have extra copies of a book, they mark it down and throw it in their 6.99 pile to get rid of it. What's wrong with ya'll. Brubaker and his artist ain't working for free. This is how marvel pays it's writers and artists. Writing and Drawing comics is how they feed their families. And you want them to give a full refund on a book that dealer ordered incorrectly. Marvel didn't say how much to order they just said order heavy or more than usual. If you chose to order 100 copies and only sell 20 who's fault it that. It's the dealer's fault not Marvel's fault. The dealer is supposed to know his/her market.

[grayhulk76]

Well at least Cap's death got Anna Nichole's rotting corpse out of the news.

A-f*kin-MEN.:mad: :D

[siren3-4]

The parker / spidey reveal was also all over the news.

[UnderNoMoon]

Does anyone have the original source for Michael Medved?

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-medved040403.asp

I'm taking a class called "The Creation of Nationalism, Nationalist Cultures and Symbols. Just last week I wrote a paper entitled "The Sentinel of our Shores: Captain America as a Nationalist Symbol." If I only had another week I would have had so many more articles to quote from.

tsk.

[BlueBeetleIII]

That's apples to oranges. DC is giving a refund because the retailers have to order months in advance on about 4 issues they have not seen yet as opposed to ordering just 1issue. Because they have to order I think 2 months in advance then thats 8 books you're ordering sight unseen and if it's a flop you don't have time to adjust, you're just outta money. You don't see bookstores having to asking book sellers for a 100% refund. When they have extra copies of a book, they mark it down and throw it in their 6.99 pile to get rid of it. What's wrong with ya'll. Brubaker and his artist ain't working for free. This is how marvel pays it's writers and artists. Writing and Drawing comics is how they feed their families. And you want them to give a full refund on a book that dealer ordered incorrectly. Marvel didn't say how much to order they just said order heavy or more than usual. If you chose to order 100 copies and only sell 20 who's fault it that. It's the dealer's fault not Marvel's fault. The dealer is supposed to know his/her market.

So what the people working for DC don't have to feed their families? Are they working for free?
If no one bought Cap #25 and Marvel told them to order heavy then what is the differneces on ordering sight unseen?
It is not the dealer's fault if you throw in an unknown quantity into the equation. MY LCS was told to order Civil War Numbers. Then the news release came out. The news release added an unknown quanitity into the equation. So how are they suppose to know the market?

You want it both ways. Marvel says order heavy. If they order 100 and sell 20, their fault they should have ordered less. If they order 50 and sell out they should ahve order more because Marvel said order heavy. Again on something sight unseen.

This just seems to be "Nothing is Marvels fault ever" type thinking.

[durkadurka]

That's apples to oranges. DC is giving a refund because the retailers have to order months in advance on about 8 issues they have not seen yet as opposed to ordering just 1 issue. Because they have to order I think 2 months in advance then thats 8 books you're ordering sight unseen and if it's a flop you don't have time to adjust, you're just outta money. You don't see bookstores having to asking book sellers for a 100% refund. When they have extra copies of a book, they mark it down and throw it in their 6.99 pile to get rid of it. What's wrong with ya'll. Brubaker and his artist ain't working for free. This is how marvel pays it's writers and artists. Writing and Drawing comics is how they feed their families. And you want them to give a full refund on a book that dealer ordered incorrectly. Marvel didn't say how much to order they just said order heavy or more than usual. If you chose to order 100 copies and only sell 20 who's fault it that. It's the dealer's fault not Marvel's fault. The dealer is supposed to know his/her market.
As has been stated before, just saying "order heavy" is not exactly prophetic. Had they said "this issue will cause a mainstream media blitz" or "the contents of the issue will be all over the news," sure, but that would've detracted from the surprise that it was, and all in all marvel handled that pretty well.
Besides, i dont think artists and writers are paid for how well a certain comic does. If they are working for a company, their salaries are already in the contract, regardless if they flop or are a hit. At least, that's how i think it works.

[roshambo]

if Cap was a symbol of America and it's resolve or "righteousness", then it's very appropriate that he was shot, considering America in today's world.

[RDuarte]

The best thing to do is, along with advising people to order heavily, is to also inform the retailers that there will be a push in the major media about this story which should boost sales, and backing this up by making the orders fully returnable so that the retailers don't feel as much risk.

But if Marvel sends out a message to the retailers saying, "Order this comic because there's gonna be a big media push the day it comes out," how hard would it take for retailers to figure out the secret? Probably 5 minutes. It's not like the Falcon dying would make CNN. Unless Captain America #25 feature Cap and the Rawhide Kid in some sex scene in all their glory, the comic would only make the news if Captain Effing America died. And then how long before one retailer forwarded the message to All the Rage, or Lying in the Gutters, or posted it here on Newsarama. Long story short, if Marvel said anything beyond "Order this issue," then the secret would have been out. In life there is risk. Those that under-ordered took the same risk as those that over-ordered. The thing is, only one side was right, and that side is better off.

[t0xin_ven0m]

I thought in Civil War: The Initiative it said that he is still alive at some 'secret base' or something?

[NoBoundaries]

That's apples to oranges. DC is giving a refund because the retailers have to order months in advance on about 8 issues they have not seen yet as opposed to ordering just 1 issue. Because they have to order I think 2 months in advance then thats 8 books you're ordering sight unseen and if it's a flop you don't have time to adjust, you're just outta money. You don't see bookstores having to asking book sellers for a 100% refund. When they have extra copies of a book, they mark it down and throw it in their 6.99 pile to get rid of it. What's wrong with ya'll. Brubaker and his artist ain't working for free. This is how marvel pays it's writers and artists. Writing and Drawing comics is how they feed their families. And you want them to give a full refund on a book that dealer ordered incorrectly. Marvel didn't say how much to order they just said order heavy or more than usual. If you chose to order 100 copies and only sell 20 who's fault it that. It's the dealer's fault not Marvel's fault. The dealer is supposed to know his/her market.

Actually it's not apples to oranges. For the last 6 months we(retailers) have been able to adjust our orders from DC right up to three weeks before the books releases.

The only difference, and this is a major diffrence on my ordering with DC, is that if DC makes the slightest mistake in their printing of an issue (not realeased on time, different writers , artist, wrong solitictation etc), then I can return the issues back and get full refund becuase of their mistake. Last time I have seen Marvel do that, never. Any mistake Marvel makes is our own fault, I guess.

[grayhulk76]

You're only missing two things: the little dog and the reality show. ;)

I had the dog, not "little" though, but forgot the show....word up dude. hahahah that would have made it perfect. :D :D :D

...so who would Steve Rogers be like if he had a reality show? shite, this could be a seperate thread....:confused: :eek: :D

I think Rogers should be a cross between a few different people like Burt Lancaster, Kirk Douglas, Robert Walker Jr., Brad Pitt, Robert Redford, George Lucas, Jensen Ackles, and Ted Nugent "all-rolled-in-one-kind-of- guy." dont know how they would ALL translate into a single specific contemporary actor though...

decisions decisions :D :) :D :)

[loupgaroukid]

"There are two things you can't argue in film: comedy and erotica. If something doesn't make you laugh, no one can tell you why it's funny, and likewise, it's hard to argue someone out of an erection." Roger Ebert

Colbert isn't funny.


Agreed...now what am I to do about that pesky erection 'The Word' gives me every night?:p

[wjclark01]

I was very reactionary until I read the book and then read Brubaker's remarks afterwards. Whoever has been reading Cap can see this is exactly where he was leading towards and that Civil War actually was the proverbial blessing/curse for him. It gave him a great way to get to point B but slowed the process. I don't think Brubaker would've ended Civil War the same way - no way would he have Cap "surrender" unless it was so obvious that he had to that even a blind man could figure it out.

Plus the Faustus/Red Skrull connection is one evil duo and you can see how Cap with all the Civil War stuff would be distracted by it all. One of the biggest problems I had with Infinite Crisis was (especially with the Holy Trinity) the lack of some of their villians who weren't included in attacking all the heroes didn't go after their nemesis individually. The best example was the Joker. The Joker was left out "all the fun" and didn't go after Batman just to mess with him in the midst of all this? Joker is far from stupid, and I know DC would have an excuse (just don't use that lame "Superboy punched the wall" - the lamest excuse in comic history over the last 20 years...) not to use him but doesn't it make sense that if the Joker couldn't get to Alex and the crew, he would mess with Batman just because? It makes sense that Skrull and Faustus would pick the absolute perfect time to come after Cap while he's been so distracted.

I trust Brubaker, especially since it was a done deal regardless of Civil War or not. And do I believe him that he had this planned all along?

Yes, I do. That alone should make this run very interesting indeed.

[metr0man]

Marvel hurt themselves I think. If there were, say, double the amount of copies available, all of them would have sold out imo. They dont even have to think about the retailers, think about all the money they lost!

remember, Marvel makes ZERO money off this becoming a "rare collector's item" that everybdoy is scalping off for 50 bucks a pop.

[NoBoundaries]

Marvel hurt themselves I think. If there were, say, double the amount of copies available, all of them would have sold out imo. They dont even have to think about the retailers, think about all the money they lost!


Ofcourse they have to think about the retailers who do you think sells the majority of their books.

But you have a valid point "think of all the money they lost", it's all going ebay, the ebay sellers, shady retailers that put them on ebay before they put them on the shelves, shady retialers, that would rather make a quick buck by marking them up way above cover price, instead of having a retuning customer.

Another retailer put it best "If Marvel only worked with retailers we would be making more money for them, not ebay"

[SpyGuy]

"There are two things you can't argue in film: comedy and erotica. If something doesn't make you laugh, no one can tell you why it's funny, and likewise, it's hard to argue someone out of an erection." Roger Ebert

Colbert isn't funny.

You're right -- he's not funny, he's hysterically funny.

Good catch.

[Dagman]

Actually it's not apples to oranges. For the last 6 months we(retailers) have been able to adjust our orders from DC right up to three weeks before the books releases.

The only difference, and this is a major diffrence on my ordering with DC, is that if DC makes the slightest mistake in their printing of an issue (not realeased on time, different writers , artist, wrong solitictation etc), then I can return the issues back and get full refund becuase of their mistake. Last time I have seen Marvel do that, never. Any mistake Marvel makes is our own fault, I guess.

The thing is, Marvel was the one operating with full knowledge here. This book had been finished for at least four months (the total cumulative lateness of CW), and they knew they were planning on issuing a press release to coincide with it's release as they did with Civil War #2 and Spider-Man's public unmasking.

Meanwhile, the contents of the issue were classified. All the retailers had to go off of was Marvel's hype. There was no indication for them to expect anything more than what they sold on the last issue of CA released, also a Civil War tie-in. So, Marvel wants to make this surprise a big promotion. You KNOW they know what their order levels are. They could have easily seen if the orders were higher than the average order levels, the heightened Civil War order levels, or higher. They should have acted when they had the orders in and made sure there would be enough supply to meet the demand they were attempting to generate. Given they did not want to give away the secret, they should have made the book returnable quietly on the invoice as they shipped to Diamond and overshipped their initial orders. That way the retailers would have had the books now, while they need them.

Instead there are a lot of people walking into a comic shop for the first time, and they want to buy that Captain America book they saw on CNN or The Colbert Report. Then too many are being told that it was sold out and more would be in next week. They leave. They forget about Captain America and go about their busy lives. The fact they even walked into the comic shop was a miracle unto itself. They will not be back next week and CNN won't remind them either. This is their one shot to make that person into a new customer. Some shops have skilled sales people that can have a shot at selling this new customer something else, most don't. So if they do not have what that new customer wants, they lose out. The new customer loses out because it was a good story that was getting the hype for once. Marvel loses out at a chance of expanding their readership beyond the normal comic store customer. The only ones who have really profited from all this are the ones who bought early and eBayed fast.

[iyamwhatiyam]

Blah blah blah.

Didn't you post this verbatim in a previous thread on the subject?

[iyamwhatiyam]

You're right -- he's not funny, he's hysterically funny.

Good catch.

Quoted for the MF'in Truth. There's nothing subjective about Stephen Colbert's comic genius.

[J. Dincauze]

I just wish that Marvel would have given some heads-up to the shops that they may need to order a few more copies than usual. It's not spoiling it to tell owners to order a couple more copies. Lots of annoyed regulars at the shop I go to.

http://www.pulllist.com/comic/marvel_comics/captain_america/25


There will be more next week, read the other article.

[DoctorTom]

Man I'm sick of all of this boohoo crying about not being told before hand. Marvel and DC has been fattening these retailers pockets for about 2-4 years now with Identity Crisis, Infinite Crisis, 52, House of M, Civil War so I can't believe that they are hurting for cash. My comic book dealer said that he made a killing off of Civil War. Civil War has been a media success and a retailer success so if they had to bite the bullet on this one, So be it. You can't get an exclusive for everything. Besides some retailer would have spoiled it anyway. Marvel told them to order heavy. I know they don't want to be stuck with issues but honestly if the word comes down the pipe to order heavy on this issue, I'd order heavy because the alternative is worse than having a few extra issues of Captain America on the shelf. Besides they had all that extra money lying around from Civil War, so many if not all could afford to order some extra books just incase something awesome is in the book. Then the flip side of this is that since they ordered light now, it's now a collector's item, they can jack up the price like they normally do. Also there had been rumours all along that Cap was going to die, business is about taking a chance. If I heard a rumour that Cap was going to die after Civil War and then Marvel advises me to up my issue on Cap #25. I would have put two and two together and upped my orders. Now I say sell those extra copies of Civil War, sell those extra Cap. America Copies you got on the shelf until the reprints get to ya this wednesday..

Okay, to address your points - I was pointing out ways that Marvel could have helped boost the 1st day sales even further than what they are. Are all the people who don't normally go to comic shops who had the momentary interest in picking up the issue going to go to a comic shop again the next week to see if a copy has shown up? Probably not. Some will have forgotten by the next week, or just won't care anymore.

Pointing out that both Marvel and the retailers could have both done better isn't 'boohoo crying', it's suggesting better business practices that will benefit everyone involved. While DC and Marvel have helped retailers out and made them money (which has made Marvel and DC money), most of them still aren't 'flush with cash' the way you state. Even if they were, wouldn't it make sense to adopt methods that would let them make even more?

As for some retailer 'spoiling it anyway' - did you even bother reading what I wrote? I gave a program which would have put out a lot more comics last Wednesday, could have had lots more Caps sold last Wednesday, all WITHOUT SPOILING the comic.

As I said in the post, Marvel saying "order heavy' isn't enough without some other sign or incentive for actually getting the retailer to order heavier.

Why are you so against actually selling more comic books? Selling more makes the industry healthier - the publisher, the distributor and the retailer all make more off it. You're coming out complaining about people suggesting ways to improve the health of the industry. Are you jealous of all the retailers driving around in their Rolls' and flashing their bling-bling off all the mad cash they made off of Civil War?, Or just shy and wanting the comic industry to hide out from any mainstream attention?

[DoctorTom]

You don't see bookstores having to asking book sellers for a 100% refund. When they have extra copies of a book, they mark it down and throw it in their 6.99 pile to get rid of it.

Actually, you do. Chains like Waldens strip often get refund on books unsold for a period of time. They strip the covers and send the covers back to the publishers while the rest of the book is ostensibly destroyed (though can often show up in flea markets, etc :-) ).A lot of the ones thrown in the 6.99 pile are publisher overruns that the publisher discounts to the chains to take cheap and put on their bargain tables. Of course, this changes between the big chains and the independent bookstores (who don't have the clout that the chains do).

[Somebody]

No comment yet on how the Cap pic shown behind Colbert was ULTIMATE Cap? I'm disappointed in you people :p

[Kevin Ryan]

"There are two things you can't argue in film: comedy and erotica. If something doesn't make you laugh, no one can tell you why it's funny, and likewise, it's hard to argue someone out of an erection." Roger Ebert

Colbert isn't funny.

Eh, if somebody vomits everytime he tastes bacon, you can't explain to him why it's delicious. But I don't really care about that guy, so he won't stop me from eating it. :P

If Dane Cook and Larry The Cable Guy make you laugh and tentacle pr0n gives you erections, that's cool, even if they don't do the same for me. I'll be watching Scrubs and Stephen Colbert, looking at BDSM, and reading anything Ed Brubaker writes(not all at once, of course). Isn't diversity great?

[The Guvnor]

Ha ha. The Onion is always good for a few laughs.

[SmileOnADog]

But he does give people erections.

LOL. I can't explain why that made me laugh. I guess some people just don't get comedy.

[coy_dog0]

Is a cheap publicity stunt the ONLY way comics can get on CNN ?

Here's a challenge for Joe Quesada:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwPZsSgoXP0

What did you gain ???

[Nights]

So what the people working for DC don't have to feed their families? Are they working for free?
If no one bought Cap #25 and Marvel told them to order heavy then what is the differneces on ordering sight unseen?
It is not the dealer's fault if you throw in an unknown quantity into the equation. MY LCS was told to order Civil War Numbers. Then the news release came out. The news release added an unknown quanitity into the equation. So how are they suppose to know the market?

You want it both ways. Marvel says order heavy. If they order 100 and sell 20, their fault they should have ordered less. If they order 50 and sell out they should ahve order more because Marvel said order heavy. Again on something sight unseen.

This just seems to be "Nothing is Marvels fault ever" type thinking.

Well isn't really their fault cause they are doing this make money. But it is shady as all hell and really Marvel has been call in to question over this before. But short of dropping all Marvel books from a shop nothing can be done beside a little belly aching. Marvel knows it has the retailers over a barrel and really can careless what they bitch about cause they know they will deal with them or lose income.

[Conejoslave]

I can't believe how lame some of you are. If you don't like the comic, don't buy damn thing! Who cares if it is or isn't a cheap publicity stunt, I think it's awesome. That's why I read what's happening on Newsarama because I like comics. Why do you even read the article if it just pisses you off? Not to mention, is it really worth crying about it in a post?

I mean, don't get me wrong, everyone has an opinion. There are things I liked and disliked about Civil War, the death of Cap and some character changes I roll with it because I love comics and the good always outways the bad. If it didn't then I wouldn't be reading comic books!

Instead why not get excited about the enless possibilities of things to come! I'd love to see Frank Castle put on the Cap mask, or for Tony to start drinking again, or for Bucky to get a push.

So, take a deep breath and realize Cap is going to be back and half of you will hate his return as much as his death. It's nothing to complain about (unless Chris Claimont writes it ;) )

[JLAJRC]

I loved the "Terror Alert" costume makeover Colbert gave Cap.:D

[Enigma20XX]

... did Superman get this kind of coverage when he was killed?

Honestly... the only people that should be upset about this are Anti-reg supporters(for life, dawg) and Captain America fans(I liked him...)...

Why is this getting so much coverage in the news?!?!?

... oh, and Tony sucks... HARD.

[ROBRAM89]

... did Superman get this kind of coverage when he was killed?

Yes. Next question.

[RichJohnston]

I just wish that Marvel would have given some heads-up to the shops that they may need to order a few more copies than usual. It's not spoiling it to tell owners to order a couple more copies. Lots of annoyed regulars at the shop I go to.

http://www.pulllist.com/comic/marvel_comics/captain_america/25

They did. Some retailers didn't listen.

[HawkeyeX007]

... did Superman get this kind of coverage when he was killed?

Yes he did, but in hindsight.... it's nowhere near as important as this, as ironic as this may sound.

Honestly... the only people that should be upset about this are Anti-reg supporters(for life, dawg) and Captain America fans(I liked him...)...

Why is this getting so much coverage in the news?!?!?

... oh, and Tony sucks... HARD.

Depends on where you stand as far as your political leanings.

Superman's death was shocking and garnered extensive media attention, but wasn't a direct product of a zeitgest. It ended up being part of the 90's zeitgeist instead due to the event occurring in the 90's. Nothing more.

Cap's death is a direct statement to the times we live in, and as seen on the news, it garnered strong reactions from both Left and Right wingers.

I personally think that Marvel did a great job at creating an objective storyline about actions and consequences. Both Iron Man and Captain America were flawed platoon leaders. the pragmatic Iron Man compromised his morals while the idealistic Cap acted recklressly.

But in the end.... Comic geeks are debating topics far more important than "Who'd win in a Hulk vs. Superman brawl...."

[NedPepper]

Eh - this is nothing. Wait until 300 gets rolling, and the idea that 300 true believers had to sacrifice themselves in the face of an unpopular military conflict in order to unite a country behind a cause - which just happened to be stopping Middle Eastern invaders - <i>that's</i> going to be an issue. :)

MattB


I was thinking the same thing while watching that film. There are some interesting parallels in that film, whether intentional or not. I did almost want to replace every time the King yelled SPARTA for USA! And then the loud "hoo-uaah!" from the marines, I mean, Spartan soldiers. ;)

[areacode212]

I woke up to the sound of Ed Brubaker talking on WNYC's On the Media (http://www.onthemedia.org/transcripts/2007/03/09/07).

[Deathangel]

Brubaker and Epting have produced some great work with Captain America.

Imagine if Marvel Comics knew how to market and advertise their works of fiction in a way that has mass appeal appreciation for artistic creativity and thought provoking discussions instead of event headline driven sparks like on Colbert Report and CNN -Any press is good press to begin with though, but it is useless if it ends where it started, in a hype machine ("Civil War: The Return" and Marvel Comics Tsunami and Next line of books).


Marvel NEXT was actually pretty good. It gave us Gravity and Young Avengers, which were both awesome. It also gave us X-23 (whether you like the concept or not, the book was well written) and Livewires, which was very, very fun. Didn't read Spellbinders though.

[AAB]

Bendis and Maleev did Daredevil, another good example. You're looking for Gaydos there.

Bendis' "Daredevil" and "Alias" had been published at the same time.

Excuses aside-> Thank you very much. I just corrected it.:)

[AAB]

Marvel NEXT was actually pretty good. It gave us Gravity and Young Avengers, which were both awesome. It also gave us X-23 (whether you like the concept or not, the book was well written) and Livewires, which was very, very fun. Didn't read Spellbinders though.
Hey, we're all entitled to our opinions. If you liked it then I am glad. :)


My statement was about hype, and the content living up to the hyped up expectations. Excuses aside, "Young Avengers" was cancelled and could not even make a monthly schedule -not the best thing for entertaining new readers while sustaining a marketing campaign. "X-23" was slow for me personally and really did not produce anything new or original as far as story telling goes. "Spellbinders" did not make a blip on the sales charts and was a flop. "Gravity" was such a great idea Marvel killed that character off in a few years of that character's creation -if he comes back I doubt it would have much to do with his previous incarnation, like Winter Soldier and Penance. "Arana" and "Amazing Fantasy" were supposed to be on going series and were a flop. "Machine Teen" was a great high school direction of a story that took us... where?

According the quote from UGO.com:
http://www.ugo.com/channels/comics/features/marvelnext/joequesada.asp
EiC Joe Quesada attempted to hype up the Next line, but none of the titles lived up to the hype:

UGO: Let's start at the beginning. How would you describe the Marvel Next line?

JOE QUESADA: Well, for starters, it's not a line of books as much as it's an initiative. Marvel Next stands for the next wave of new Marvel characters and ideas that are going to set the comic book world on its ear. Either you'll see completely new characters or spins on old favorites that, in some cases, bear no more resemblance to their old counterparts than their name. Also, Marvel Next titles for the most part feature young vibrant characters at the start of their careers. In some ways, NYX and Runaways were the template for this.

My point is, this is great that Captain America #25 is gaining some hype and comics are in the boob tube, but who cares if it is only a bunch of hyperbole? Big whoop.

Over all Marvel Next did not take us to any 'Next level' or line of stories. The Next line was released and .... 'What? It is going on a couple years later and none of these characters have been used to "...set the comic book world on its ear" -Especially considering none of the Next line of characters have played a major role in Civil War, or House of M. CW was, thankfully, built upon founding Marvel Comics characters. And I say 'thankfully', because it's gratifying to see Marvel Comics reinvesting in their established character-based assets while furthering their 'Marvel landscape'.

BUT Livewires was kick-ass, wasn't it?:cool: It was an oasis that was poorly marketed and advertised, as well as to have "...set the comic book world on its ear."


>>>If you are going to have a Marvel Next line of titles, then produce some vibrant, new ideas for marketing and advertising to attract those "Geration Next" readers unfamiliar with comic books. As my original post was leading into, Marvel Comics needs to think out of the box, and step up their marketing and advertising efforts. (Relying on things like "Wizard" magazine, for example, is a decrepit poodle chasing its own tail.:p :D ) If asked, "What does "Marvel Next" mean to you?", how many Generation Next people would immediately say "Oh yeah! Arana, Gravity and Machine Teen!"? The Marvel Next branding was just a brand name in a vacuum.

Most importantly, considering we all prefer to have some respect for reading comics and Marvel to gain recognition for it's great stories and works of art, imagine if Marvel Comics knew how to market and advertise their works of fiction in a way that has mass appeal appreciation for artistic creativity and thought provoking discussions instead of event headline driven sparks like on Colbert Report and CNN -Any press is good press to begin with though, but it is useless if it ends where it started, in a hype machine ("Civil War: The Return" and Marvel Comics Tsunami and Next line of books).

[coy_dog0]

I give it a few months, maybe til the release of the film at most.

Sorry, I can't take this crap seriously anymore, after they resurrected Jason Todd and Captain Marvel.

Pathetic.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UwPZsSgoXP0

Joe Q, what did you gain by leaking the story? What did you gain?

[Deathangel]

I figure he'll be back eventually, but it will be a while.

[roshambo]

I figure he'll be back eventually, but it will be a while.

probably after Bush leaves office.

[iwarrior]

I can't get excited about this. As much of a Marvel fan that I have been for many years, I just can't get excited about anything Marvel does anymore.

I got the issue yesterday and finally read it this evening. I found the whole thing to be anti-climactic. Captain America doesn't die saving the country or the world in some epic battle. He's instead shot by a sniper while handcuffed after being apprehended.

This is just a symptom of one of a number of illnesses affecting Marvel lately. The illness is Civil War which has really been about shaking the snowglobe for its own sake. Hell they didn't just do that. They threw the snowglobe onto the floor and smashed it. All we are left with is a huge mess made by people who claim to have a respect for these characters and what has gone before.

And then we're seeing all of this mainstream coverage over it. Is it going to bring in new readers? No. It rather has become fodder for comedians on late-night television and a something to fill up time and space on newscasts and periodicals.

Will some writer, Brubaker perhaps, find a way to bring him back? Of course. The Red Skull was killed in a similar manner, and now we see him in the comics again. Superman died and was resurrected in order to spike sales. But how many times can they do this?

You know, May Parker met a loving and fitting end in Amazing Spider-Man 400. It was a beautiful story and a touching farewell.

Then they brought her back.

And now it looks like they killed her again.

I think that the comics industry hates itself.

[ajspang]

Great issue. But I think the one thing about his death that gets lost is the fact that even at the end, he died saving someone else. He took a bullet for one of the guards taking him in. Cap would willingly die to save just one man as well as die to save a whole planet. Brubaker did a great job on this issue, and demonstrated Cap's true nobility.

[pseudosham]

Geez, with all this media attention, they kind of have to keep him dead now. At least until Bush is out of office.

right, because keeping your major characters dead is really good for business :rolleyes:

[Woody]

TURN HIM INTO DEATHLOC

[iwarrior]

Tony Norman, a local columnist, weighs in...

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07072/768939-153.stm

[gcoleman99]

Ofcourse they have to think about the retailers who do you think sells the majority of their books.

But you have a valid point "think of all the money they lost", it's all going ebay, the ebay sellers, shady retailers that put them on ebay before they put them on the shelves, shady retialers, that would rather make a quick buck by marking them up way above cover price, instead of having a retuning customer.

Another retailer put it best "If Marvel only worked with retailers we would be making more money for them, not ebay" Exactly. My nearest LCS (Silver City, for those in the Columbia, SC area) had some come in this week. I called them a week ago Thursday, once I heard the news that Marvel had severely overprinted and asked if they were planning on getting any more copies this week. The owner said she was pretty sure they would, that they'd be drop-shipped from Diamond and would arrive separately on Wed. I called back (3 times, actually) to find out if they had come in, and finally they had, so I asked them to save me a copy and I'd be in after work. When I got there, she handed it to me, and it wasn't until she was running the card that I realized that they'd bumped the cover price 2.5 times, to $10. I came VERY close to telling her to void the sale, but didn't because I hadn't noticed the price in time, and I didn't want to be a jerk about it. That said, they now will be the LAST of the 4 stores in my area that I'll go to (one's even 20 miles away in the opposite direction, and I'll go to that one before I'll hit SC, which is right on my route home). Granted, I'm not a regular there (I do mail order, as no shop in the area gives any discounts, even though they all require prepayment if you preorder), but I have spent approx. 4 to 500 dollars there in the 5 years I've lived here. They chose making a quick buck. I paid it, but won't make that same mistake again, and I'll tell everyone I can to not go there, as they don't seem to care about their customers.