MARVEL MAKES AVENGERS: THE INITIATVE AN ONGOING

[MattBrady]

<a href=http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/aveng_initiative/1.html target=new><img src=http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/aveng_initiative/AVNINT001_DC_t.jpg border=0 align=right></a> <a href=http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/aveng_initiative/2.html target=new><img src=http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/aveng_initiative/AVNINT001_DC2_t.jpg border=0 align=right></a>Marvel Comics informs Newsarama that due to "popular demand and an increased importance in the overall tapestry of the post-<b>Civil War</b> Marvel Universe", the upcoming <b>Avengers: The Initiative</b> limited series has been changed to an ongoing series, adding a third Marvel Universe proper ongoing <b>Avengers</b> title to their line-up.

“With the reader and retailer reaction to the climax of <b>Civil War</b>, and the general interest in precisely what comes next for Tony Stark’s Fifty State Initiative, it only made sense to us to promote <b>Avengers The Initiative</b> to a full ongoing series, rather than just a limited," said Executive Editor Tom Brevoort in an announcement. "The number of story possibilities set in place by the new status quo of the Marvel Universe are almost endless, and we’re sure that fans will want to experience them all along with writer Dan Slott and artist Stefano Caselli.”

<b>Avengers: The Initiative</b> premieres next month on April 4th.

<center><a href=http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/aveng_initiative/3.html target=new><img src=http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/aveng_initiative/THEINIZ001006_col_t.jpg border=0></a> <a href=http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/aveng_initiative/4.html target=new><img src=http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/aveng_initiative/THEINIZ001012_col_t.jpg border=0></a><br> <a href=http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/aveng_initiative/5.html target=new><img src=http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/aveng_initiative/AVNINIT002_col_t.jpg border=0></a> <a href=http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/aveng_initiative/6.html target=new><img src=http://www.newsarama.com/marvelnew/aveng_initiative/AVNINIT003_cov_col_t.jpg border=0></a></center>

[Hellblazer]

3 Avengers titles !

[RoiVampire]

whoa, hydro man




cool

[Dalarsco]

Wow, there are now as many Avengers titles as X-Men titles. I'm not sure if I will get this one after the post-event stuff is done, but we'll see.

[guitarsock7]

Has there really been that much popular demand?

[tralfaz]

i just hope that Slott can keep the pace.

[foxhound421]

so, do we know who's in the War Machine armor?

[Gladiator X]

3 Avengers titles !


#&@$ YEAH!!

:cool:

[Tiger47]

surprised to see this one make the jump...i thought brining Omega Flight back to ongoing status would be much more likely...

I'll pick it up for the first arc, but i don't like Casselli at all, so I'll hope they'll find another artist soon.

[RogueSmurf6]

So do The Shocker, Hydro Man and Boomerang become Thunderbolts Lite?

[Jed Saxon]

From ongoing to limited series to ongoing. Woah...

[McMonkey Nut]

This awesome!! Another ongoing Slott book!!! I just crapped my pants a little!!

[aeast317]

i'll see about keeping this book around. it shall be on trial basis.

[Goldenboy]

Dan Slott.

War Machine.

Obscure characters.

The Gauntlet (Who's basically been hyped solely by a single line of dialogue in She-Hulk).

Cool.

[bebopeva88]

Huh...interesting move. I thought this might have been an announcement about Omega Flight. I'll check this out, but I'm not a big fan of Casselli, so unless Slott really steps up, I doubt this'll end up on my pull list.

[Mr Wesley]

so, do we know who's in the War Machine armor?Here's another dumb question. On the bi-fold cover, who are the civilians who are immediately on either side of Iron Man? The man to his right could be Rick Jones, but I don't recognize the two women on his left.

Anybody?

[lesterj]

I love me some Hank Pym. I'll definitely be picking this up. The more Avengers, the better (ah the glory days of East Coast, West Coast, and Solo... oh no, wait, two of those kinda sucked then...)

[Darthphere]

Congrats Dan!

[Mr Wesley]

surprised to see this one make the jump...i thought brining Omega Flight back to ongoing status would be much more likely...

I'll pick it up for the first arc, but i don't like Casselli at all, so I'll hope they'll find another artist soon.Wasn't Omega Flight actually downgraded from an ongoing to a mini?

[jaredgood1]

Shocker. Nice. I'm always happy when ol' quilt face shows up. Now I just need to see a scene where he is in a bar, going on and on about how he hates kids today for ruining his name.

[neodragzero]

I guess I'll give it a read. I do actually like Dan Slott. And it's nice to see War Machine do more. And the art seems decent enough.

[khuxford]

Has there really been that much popular demand?

The first issue hasn't hit the racks yet...so there isn't a REAL groundswell of popular demand...but retailers could already be seeing fans that are clamoring to put it on their pull lists...

[khuxford]

Wasn't Omega Flight actually downgraded from an ongoing to a mini?

That's why the OP said "thought brining Omega Flight back to ongoing status would be much more likely..."

Saying "back to ongoing" acknowledges that it was originally meant to be ongoing...no longer is...and he thought it'd be the most likely to get sent back to the majors...

[Reliant]

I was expecting a third Avengers title in the return of the West Coast Avengers or Young Avengers, but this will work too, I guess.

I guess the plan really is for the Avengers to duke it out with the X-Men as Marvel's top team franchise...

[Lex]

Congrats Dan! Avengers: The Initiative is one of the few Marvel books I'm interested in reading right now, so I'm thrilled to see it become an ongoing.

[skl183]

the last of the 3 covers looks the best, issue #3.

Whoever drew that should be the regular artist on this series.

Awesome cover artists like Delotto and Djurdjevic should get more work on the interior art for the ongoing titles.

[KryptonSite]

I always thought a third Avengers book would be a re-imagined SOLO AVENGERS or something. This is interesting, though I think I'd prefer just seeing a series of mini-series, each featuring a different Initiative-based team.

AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE doesn't sound like the name of a book that will last for years and years like THE MIGHTY AVENGERS would...

Now if only they'd bring back the corner boxes to the Avengers books so we'd have the little heads to know which characters are in which books.

[Typhon24]

Caselli is quickly becoming one of my favorite artists in comics. Exciting news, definitely picking this up.

[tgail]

It'll be nice to have an Avengers book without Bendis for once.

[Mr Wesley]

That's why the OP said "thought brining Omega Flight back to ongoing status would be much more likely..."

Saying "back to ongoing" acknowledges that it was originally meant to be ongoing...no longer is...and he thought it'd be the most likely to get sent back to the majors...I have been duly chastised and reprimanded.

Do I get a spanking now?

[Moriarty]

This really feels unnecessary; I was pefectly happy with both New and Mighty.

[khuxford]

I have been duly chastised and reprimanded.

Do I get a spanking now?

LOL...I didn't mean to come across like I was chastising you. And spanking? Anything is possible for the right fee. ;)

[Mikeyb]

Wow this is great news! The interior artist is really bringin his a game. He has improved so much, this looks so much better than Young Avengers/Runaways. Almost a Pascual Ferry feel to it. 3 Avengers titles!!! Hell yea!!

[cernunnos]

HOT DIGGITY DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:) :) :)

[Mikeyb]

This really feels unnecessary; I was pefectly happy with both New and Mighty.
How does this feel unnessary? Mighty has yet to come out, New Avengers has had only one issue since Civil War. Maybe you guys should try reading something before deeming "unnessesary".

[WildcardZ]

Kickass. I love Slott. She-Hulk is excellent and I was sad to see his Thing series get cancelled. This is going to be fun. He is to the Marvel what Geoff Johns is to DC. Bring on the obscure, underused, and forgotten characters!!!!!!!!!!!!:) :) :) :)

[Mr Wesley]

LOL...I didn't mean to come across like I was chastising you. And spanking? Anything is possible for the right fee. ;)It's okay, Kevin, I'm just a tad drunk. By the way, I enjoyed the article you had a week or two ago.

[Mr Wesley]

How does this feel unnessary? Mighty has yet to come out, New Avengers has had only one issue since Civil War. Maybe you guys should try reading something before deeming "unnessesary".Or, perhaps we should wait until Mighty Avengers comes out before we "demand" another Avengers title.

[khuxford]

It's okay, Kevin, I'm just a tad drunk. By the way, I enjoyed the article you had a week or two ago.

Thanks, man...I enjoyed writing it. :)

[rwe1138]

Congrats to Dan Slott and Stefano Caselli. I think this announcement just netted the title a spot in my pull-box.

[The Guvnor]

Best of luck to everyone involved, but honestly I'm a little sceptical. Can the market support 3 ongoing Avengers titles. Has that ever happened before?

I would have preferred Marvel to wait until they got back sales numbers on the first 4 issues to see if it can sustain the readers. I'm afraid I'll have to sit this one out given money and time constraints. Maybe I'll catch it in trade.

By the way, has Champions been confirmed as an ongoing or has no decision been made yet?

[meblob]

I have to put my hand up and say befor all the crazy war business i was never a Big Avenger person, i would skip past and go for the X line. but now i really am pushing more on the Avenger books, really looking forward to the 3 books. Now if you would please just hurry up with the cheaper download comics that would be great. dont make me feel bad by not paying for great work.

[GSHAG]

oh this is great! between this and countdown over at DC, these are really good "spines" to their respective universes. much like countdown, initiative could tie into nearly everything in the MU, hopefully will keep writers on their toes

[varo]

wow. omega flight gets downgraded and initiative gets upgraded before issue 1 hits the stands.

[astronato]

This already seems more interesting to me than Mighty Avengers. And New Avengers has been dissapointing. Glad to see someone other than Bendis write an Avengers book. Looks good. I'm in.

I wish they would make War Machines helmet more distinctive from Iron Mans though.

[Mikeyb]

Or, perhaps we should wait until Mighty Avengers comes out before we "demand" another Avengers title.
Seems each book is telling a different story with different teams so I can totally see why they would have another Avengers book. Seems this book tells whats going on with all the characters you don't usually hear much about. Sounds like an interesting book. Avengers is the new X-Men.

[Hrungr]

Damn... sounds good to me. Looking forward to seeing where Slott takes this.

[WildcardZ]

The first issue hasn't hit the racks yet...so there isn't a REAL groundswell of popular demand...but retailers could already be seeing fans that are clamoring to put it on their pull lists...
Could also be the numbers from the preorders for the april previews. Variety is never a bad thing. We have another choice. Let's see how it pans out.

[Prometheus3]

Glorious. This can replace New Avengers on my ongoing list.

[Lex]

It'll be nice to have an Avengers book without Bendis for once.
Very good point. I'm not reading New or Mightly Avengers specifically because of Bendis. And that has always made me sad because I really like the Avengers.

But now there's finally an ongoing Avengers book I can read. Yay!

[Scratchy]

Huh...interesting move. I thought this might have been an announcement about Omega Flight. I'll check this out, but I'm not a big fan of Casselli, so unless Slott really steps up, I doubt this'll end up on my pull list.

I find it odd. Reading all the comments, the response to Initiative seems lukewarm at best, with many people giving a 'who cares' look at it and more saying, huh?

I can't find anywhere where this "support" to turn Initiatives into an ongoing came from; what fans?? Issue #1 could sell 15,000, who knows?


Oh, I get it, Editorial support, not customer support. Silly me.

[GenerallZodd]

They should just call it The Initiative and make it Marvel-wide.

[WildcardZ]

With this good news, what are chances of us seeing the Great Lakes Initiative getting bump from a one shot to a mini? :D

[Corrupteddragon]

i think its a great idea to have it an ongoing. Basically, they could switch up the teams every few issues, since you have 50 different teams to choose from. Kinda like that old Avengers Spotlight series they had years and years ago.

[Stalzer2002]

Woo-hoo! The Initiative has gone ongoing! This is great news.

That looks like a cool cover too. Boomerang, Hydro-Man and the Shocker are always a welcome sight.

[Layters]

I still dont get the concept of this book. Theres a core team yeah? How does that work?

THat being said. This in my eyes is the real Avengers book. Fun underused characters and a rotating cast.

This and Omega Flight is the only thing to come out of Civil War.

For the fans awaiting the Omega ongoing. Well I imagine sales figures are in now. If it was going to happen it would probably be by now.

Thats sad news as Omega Flight really is the succesor to West Coast Avengers in my eyes. I still want a real Alpha Flight series though. I guess we can only hope for re-orders.

[artiepants]

well, YAY. no i feel less bad about dropping She-Hulk, i can still give Dan my monthly $2.40
From ongoing to limited series to ongoing. Woah...
i thought it was listed as a mini as long as it's been announced:confused: Wow, there are now as many Avengers titles as X-Men titles.
are there?

team books:
A: Mighty Avengers, The Initiative, New Avengers
X: X-men, Astonishing, Uncanny, New, Excalibur, does eXiles count?

Solo:
A: Cap, Iron Man, Ms. Marvel
X: Wolverine, Wolverine Origins (or do those count as Avengers books now :p)
i suppose the Spidey Books could count for the Avengers too...

but, yeah, from 1 to 3 core team A books is surprising ~ although i'd imagine The Initiative will be a tad "anthologic" becuse the South Dakota Rug Rats really don't need an ongoing or mini...

[Mundungus]

The title The Avengers: The Initiative worked as a mini-series, but for some reason it seems to rigid next to New Avengers and Mighty Avengers.

Needs something to get the title flowin' well. Or just called The Initiative.

Avengers International....or Avengers National. Whatevs.

[amlah6]

Congrats to Dan!

I can't wait for this book. :D

[varo]

yeah, i'm really confused. first off i'm very happy for dan slott and all fans of this series, but being a diehard alpha flight fan we were told that the only way to show support for a book and have our voices heard is through sales, yet issue 1 has not yet hit the stands and this series has been upgraded to a ongoing and omega has been downgraded.........


ha?

btw, are sales figures in for any upcoming book? i know i have tried to pre-order omega through midtown comics and its not yet available.

[Cray_ws]

3 Avengers books, jeez did Marvel forget they tried this before and had to cancel them. I think if they really wanted to make more money it would've been better if they just had one Avenger book and it came out weekly. Just take the 3 books creative teams and spread them out as arcs. This will streamline the continuity as the stories would most likely be in order.

The same thing can be done with the X-Men. Its all a matter if Marvel is willing to risk getting their comics out in a timely fashion.

[Stalzer2002]

I find it odd. Reading all the comments, the response to Initiative seems lukewarm at best, with many people giving a 'who cares' look at it and more saying, huh?

I can't find anywhere where this "support" to turn Initiatives into an ongoing came from; what fans?? Issue #1 could sell 15,000, who knows?


Oh, I get it, Editorial support, not customer support. Silly me.

Well, the orders for issue #1 were due a week ago. I'm guessing that they blew Marvel's expectations out of the water. That doesn't directly translate into an exact figure for customer support, but it at least lets them know what ballpark they're in.

[vbartilucci]

Here's another dumb question. On the bi-fold cover, who are the civilians who are immediately on either side of Iron Man? The man to his right could be Rick Jones, but I don't recognize the two women on his left.

Anybody?
I feel sorry for the 20-30 heroes who got covered up by the Avengers Logo.

[ME5]

Hello.

I am quite pleased to see Justice is going to be involved. If there was ever a character at Marvel other than Captain America who should be on an Avengers team, it is Justice!! Yay!

Be Well...:)

[sweetmisery]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Though comics are a bit expensive here in the Philippines plus shipping and whatnot, count me in!!!!!!!!

[killerbass]

This awesome!! Another ongoing Slott book!!! I just crapped my pants a little!!

Pass the TP...

:D

[mugiwara]

Wait, this is not an Avenger book. I'm sorry, but Hydroman, Shocker or Komodo are NOT Avengers. And Avengers don't fight Spiderman, they fight Kang or Ultron! It's like having Psimon, Mr Mallah and Jericho fighting Batman and calling it JLA! ;) :D

Jokes apart, I'm really glad that Avengers the Initiative became an ongoing and I really hope that it will sell enough to not be cancelled. Art looks great, Slott usually writes good stories, and there is a girl with a magic cloud:D .

Now some issues with Bishop, Batroc or Mach IV would be great. And I wonder how the heroes who were anti registration, like the YA, would react if they must go after Luke Cage or Spiderman.

[BryanS7]

Probably just a combination of factors that lead to this getting bumped to ongoing. The Avengers brand is hot right now, and that's going to guarentee some sales (how many people buy all the Superman/Batman/Spidey/X-Books every month? Some people will buy anything if it has the right name on the cover). Its also been hyped since around July/Aug, whenever that big marvel retreat was, and said then (back when they couldn't mention what it was just 'Dan Slott's Secret Project') that it'd be one of the biggest books spinning off Civil War.

Maybe because its an Avengers book it can demand more money from advertisers than a book like Namor or Omega Flight, I have no idea how that works. Either way, grats to the creative team, I'm a huge Slott fan and will be there day one.

[pop monkey]

I'll pick it up for the first arc, but i don't like Casselli at all, so I'll hope they'll find another artist soon.

Well, they're going to have to, as Casselli probably can't handle a monthly schedule (based on his previous track record) -- unless this is going to turn into another YOUNG AVENGERS which comes out whenever the set creative team can manage to turn in another issue. Slott's had his problems too, of course. Note to the editor of this book: secure an alternating creative team NOW, so we don't experience any delays for the first year of this book! Wouldn't that be a novel change?

[The Spirit]

:eek:

I don't think I can support this...

[BanMan]

Here's another dumb question. On the bi-fold cover, who are the civilians who are immediately on either side of Iron Man? The man to his right could be Rick Jones, but I don't recognize the two women on his left.

Anybody?

They're not civilians.

[...Dallas...]

While I'm happy for Dan Slott and will definitely check this out, I'm not all that impressed with the artist, and I can't help but feel bad for Mike Oeming, so I hope another announcement comes soon. Omega Flight looked like the most promising thing spinning out of CW to me.

[JLAJRC]

[QUOTE=Layters]I still dont get the concept of this book. Theres a core team yeah? How does that work?

THat being said. This in my eyes is the real Avengers book. Fun underused characters and a rotating cast.

QUOTE]

That is a good question, since I'm not quite sure either. Is this going to be the "50 states" title outside of The Champions? Does it have a rotating cast? If so, this could be the "Avengers Unlimited" of the MU.

[Eli Renfro]

I'm not exactly overjoyed with this. I love Slott's work and think he's probably the best writer Marvel has right now, but CW's complete suckiness left me with such a bad taste in my mouth. As a mini I was going to wait, check out the reviews and if it sounded like I could stomach it, I'd get the trade. But now as an ongoing I kind of have to make the decision if I'm going with it right up front. On the bright side, maybe it'll do well enough that Slott could pry one of the REAL Avengers books from that other guy. Sigh. A guy can dream, right?

[Ace]

Whoa.

We have Power Pack Sighting.

[Somebody]

SOooo... when was the last time a Marvel mini/maxiseries was upgraded to an ongoing "by popular demand" before an issue had even shipped?

The Brotherhood, wasn't it? (Announced as 12-issue, upgraded to ongoing, cancelled after 9)

[jedifish]

Has there really been that much popular demand?

Since we're stuck with Bendis on the other 2 and I'm not buying those, I'm glad to have this one.

[chard5000]

Awsome! Another Avengers book not written by Bendis. I'll read this, and Young Avengers (whenever it comes out). The Bendis-Vengers can go to the garbage.

[purplerocket]

Since we're stuck with Bendis on the other 2 and I'm not buying those, I'm glad to have this one.

YAY. I thought there was going to be a Avengers thread where no-one dissed Bendis. Even though he has nothing to do with this book, impressive.

While we're at it I hate Traffic Wardens, Cardiff City FC and Marmite.

[Arion]

3 Avengers titles !

From 1 to 3 in practically no time.

[SpiderCloneJ]

Does anyone else realize that Marvel's essentially making 90% of their superheroes on one big "team". It sound interesting now, but will get old very quickly....
It's like when everyone joined the NWO. Wrestling fans know what I'm talking about....

[khuxford]

Could also be the numbers from the preorders for the april previews. Variety is never a bad thing. We have another choice. Let's see how it pans out.

Yeah...but all of those orders are still based on not a single issue of the series having sold to the consumer...so those numbers don't mean a lot.

[JDoudican]

While Marvel is at it, why don't the get back to Ultimate Wolverine vs Hulk!

[Bevbos]

ANOTHER Avengers title?!?

Fivuck, I love Slott, I like a lot of these characters, and I really want to support this, but I -just can't afford another title-!!!! damn!

[jonnynyc]

YAY DAN SLOTT
I think this is GREAT news for old school Avengers fans
It doesn't get better than Slott

[hadez]

Hum. I'm all for Dan Slott, but I'll need to check up issue 1 before I can decide.

[TheLizard207]

guess im picking this up now

[Titan Slade]

Dan Slott + Obscure Characters = Me buying this.:cool:

[PaxHouse]

Whoa.

We have Power Pack Sighting.

Oh, really.....??:confused:

You mean you've just now noticing a former Packer/Warrior among the 'Team'...?? :rolleyes: :p :D

[Lex]

The Initiative will be a tad "anthologic" becuse the South Dakota Rug Rats really don't need an ongoing or mini...
Bah! That's just because you haven't seen them in action. They've been too busy lately defending Mt. Rushmore from... um... supervillain attacks. Yeah, that's it! :)

I'm from South Dakota, so I hope my state actually ends up with a cool super-team. *hint hint* Dan!

[Rollo_Tomasi]

Here's another dumb question. On the bi-fold cover, who are the civilians who are immediately on either side of Iron Man? The man to his right could be Rick Jones, but I don't recognize the two women on his left.

Anybody?

Aren't they from the team that appears on the cover with War Machine? I think they're called the Rangers.

[Asian Pirate]

Beautiful. :)

[Rollo_Tomasi]

Does anyone else realize that Marvel's essentially making 90% of their superheroes on one big "team". It sound interesting now, but will get old very quickly....
It's like when everyone joined the NWO. Wrestling fans know what I'm talking about....

there are still some heavy hitters on the anti-reg side, and more people are bound to switch sides from pro as time passes...

[PaxHouse]

Aren't they from the team that appears on the cover with War Machine? I think they're called the Rangers.

Nope....the REAL Rangers are already in Texas; as revealed in CIVIL WAR #7.....

And we'll learn who they are within the AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE Series...{though it's very unlikely that they're the Champions...!!:rolleyes: ;) }....

[eltee38]

WAR MACHINE! my favourite character!!! yesss....

[registernow]

surprised to see this one make the jump...i thought brining Omega Flight back to ongoing status would be much more likely...

I'll pick it up for the first arc, but i don't like Casselli at all, so I'll hope they'll find another artist soon.

Really? This has the Avengers name on it, so that will help. And while avid fans may say they are glad to see Beta Ray Bill----i think average readers will wonder what the hell he is.

[MarvelMan777]

Anyone else think that James Rhodes will be the guy in the War Machine armor? Seems like a good reason to have him back due to him being cast in the Iron Man Movie.:)

[Ace]

Oh, really.....??:confused:

You mean you've just now noticing a former Packer/Warrior among the 'Team'...?? :rolleyes: :p :D

Well hey, I'm refering to potentially noticing 3 out of 4 on that cover to 5. Though the ages seem a bit wacky. And now I've been informed that Cloud 9 is apparently a new character named Abby.

Ah well... can't win them all.

[kitty_tc]

No. Real. Avengers.

Where's Hawkeye? Where's Scarlet Witch? Where's Wonder Man? Triathalon? Doctor Druid? Vision? Wasp? Because without Cap's Kooky Quartet, it can't possibly be the Avengers. Isn't that what we've heard ad nauseum for two solid years?

The double standard, and the hypocrisy, is disgusting.

[deathshead2]

Great a third avengers title I don't want to buy. The art doesn't help either.

[ziza9]

Does anyone else realize that Marvel's essentially making 90% of their superheroes on one big "team". It sound interesting now, but will get old very quickly....
It's like when everyone joined the NWO. Wrestling fans know what I'm talking about....

Memories of the LWO, NWO Wolfpack, NWO Black and White....come screaming back to mind. :)

[Remjer]

While I like Slott's writing.....

There is no doubt that Marvel is flooding the market, they should cut down the number of X-Men titles, and not trying to turn Avengers into the same mold.

[GerbilFetus]

WOW.
i love that cheung cover with black costumed spidey!
i love it!
for when young avengers 2 comes out cheung better be back.
need more cheung drawn spiderman!!!!!!

[EyesBL7]

Shocker. Nice. I'm always happy when ol' quilt face shows up. Now I just need to see a scene where he is in a bar, going on and on about how he hates kids today for ruining his name.


Funny you should mention because this appearance confuses me as he was just killed in the Punisher War Journal while he was sitting in a bar complaining.

[Kevinjt4]

3 Avengers titles !

All we need now is Uncanny X-Men Vs X-Men Vs New X-Men Vs New Avengers Vs Mighty Avengers Vs Avengers The Initiative

It will be highly interesting to see what this Huge X-Men event is supposed to be though. Perhaps it will bring our merry mutants to a new standard??? Or will it be a new form of the Mutant Registration Act??? That would be on par with the current MU government's stance on superheroes...

[neodragzero]

Funny you should mention because this appearance confuses me as he was just killed in the Punisher War Journal while he was sitting in a bar complaining.
Oh come on.:D You know death pretty much has no meaning in Marvel, and most definitely DC, comics anymore. With taking Captain Marvel out of the time stream before he gets cancer, I wouldn't be surprised if Uncle Ben or Gwen Stacy came back. Heck, the guy you have as your avatar pretty much proves the point.:D

But more seriously, there's the possibility that he's one of the villains that actually walked out when Spidey suggested that he do so before the place got torched.

[richstanz]

I'm not exactly overjoyed with this. I love Slott's work and think he's probably the best writer Marvel has right now, but CW's complete suckiness left me with such a bad taste in my mouth. As a mini I was going to wait, check out the reviews and if it sounded like I could stomach it, I'd get the trade. But now as an ongoing I kind of have to make the decision if I'm going with it right up front. On the bright side, maybe it'll do well enough that Slott could pry one of the REAL Avengers books from that other guy. Sigh. A guy can dream, right?

I have no idea why, if you love Slott's writing so much, you're letting a story - which was not written by Slott or has no effect on Slott's writing at all, stop you from picking this up.

And how is this *not* a REAL Avengers book - or less of an Avengers book than Mighty Avengers which hasn't seen one issue printed?

[kitty_tc]

Memories of the LWO, NWO Wolfpack, NWO Black and White....come screaming back to mind. :)

Well the three-way war between the two NWO units and the WCW loyalists was damned interesting, and was the height of the show's quality. They really did a good job of keeping the fans guessing and coming up with elaborate plots and reversals and tit-for-tat scheming... then someone in the hierarchy said it was too complex and had to be dumbed down, except they called it "simplified". The whole show jumped the shark not long thereafter.

[Justice]

I'm excited about this. Hopefully they can keep Cheung on covers as long as possible, too. And hopefully this means plenty more of Justice. Not that I'm biased or anything.

[kitty_tc]

On the bright side, maybe it'll do well enough that Slott could pry one of the REAL Avengers books from that other guy. Sigh. A guy can dream, right?

Wrong! Those are not "REAL" Avengers books, because they lack Hawkeye and all the other E-list characters the internet illuminati have given their coronation to as "true" Avengers. Didn't you get the memo? Only the electronic elite can declare an Avengers book or it's characters as "REAL". All others without their sanction are "FAKE" Avengers and are to be reviled and flamed until such time as the fanboy fraternity is pleased, and gives their approval. In other words, NEVER!!!11!1!!!!!!111

:D :p :p

[Lex]

No. Real. Avengers.

Where's Hawkeye? Where's Scarlet Witch? Where's Wonder Man? Triathalon? Doctor Druid? Vision? Wasp? Because without Cap's Kooky Quartet, it can't possibly be the Avengers. Isn't that what we've heard ad nauseum for two solid years?

The double standard, and the hypocrisy, is disgusting.
It appears my hypocrisy knows no bounds.

I imagine you're quoting people who have been critical of Bendis' Avengers. Sure, one of my criticisms was that he stripped the team of all the interesting characters (like Hawkeye and Scarlet Witch) and replaced them with the icons... in a lame attempt to copy DC's JLA book.

My complaints about the current Avengers begin and end with Bendis. IAvengers Dissassembled made me realize that he wasn't going to be writing an Avengers I'd find interesting. And, from what I hear online, I'm glad I've stayed away.

Avengers: The Initiative has no sign of Bendis, as far as I can see. Plus, I like Slott's writing. And the concept of the Initiative is facinating (thought I wished we didn't have to go through Civil War to get it).

So, all that said, Avengers: The Initiative is the only Avengers book I plan on spending my money on.

[Michael P]

One unhatched chicken, two unhatched chickens, three unhatched chickens...

[New Warrior]

No. Real. Avengers.

Where's Hawkeye? Where's Scarlet Witch? Where's Wonder Man? Triathalon? Doctor Druid? Vision? Wasp? Because without Cap's Kooky Quartet, it can't possibly be the Avengers. Isn't that what we've heard ad nauseum for two solid years?

The double standard, and the hypocrisy, is disgusting.


Funny isnt it? I was thinking the same thing

I can not wait for this book. I think it may be more a marvel universe book, and less of an avengers book. I for one hope this turns out well. I would love to have a book knee-deep in the marvel universe with lots of under-used characters. Hopefully thats what this turns out to be...

[wraith]

The first issue hasn't hit the racks yet...so there isn't a REAL groundswell of popular demand...but retailers could already be seeing fans that are clamoring to put it on their pull lists...

In other words, pre-orders on ATI are very high, so Marvel decided to turn this mini series into an ongoing series.

[ROBRAM89]

Sure, one of my criticisms was that he stripped the team of all the interesting characters and replaced them with the icons... in a lame attempt to copy DC's JLA book.

You mean like they did when they created, umm, the first major Marvel superhero comic?

[I am MODOK]

Yee haw. Sold!

[Alextron]

Passing on this one, too. Man, this thing is going to burn out, and when it does, it will be BRUTAL!

[vanhelsin]

Wrong! Those are not "REAL" Avengers books, because they lack Hawkeye and all the other E-list characters the internet illuminati have given their coronation to as "true" Avengers. Didn't you get the memo? Only the electronic elite can declare an Avengers book or it's characters as "REAL". All others without their sanction are "FAKE" Avengers and are to be reviled and flamed until such time as the fanboy fraternity is pleased, and gives their approval. In other words, NEVER!!!11!1!!!!!!111

:D :p :p

I must agree, because when I think of Avengers, I automatically think of Vision, Scarlet Witch, Hawkeye and Quicksilver, with such stalwarts such as Wonder Man, Doctor Druid and the creepiest Avenger of them all, Starfox, thrown into the mix. I defintely do NOT think of Cap, Thor, Iron Man, She-Hulk, Beast, Ms. Marvel, Hulk, Spider-Woman & Cage as Avengers, and perish the thought that I actually would dare to contemplate such a blasphemy against the electronic elite. :D

[khuxford]

In other words, pre-orders on ATI are very high, so Marvel decided to turn this mini series into an ongoing series.

Yes...pre-orders on a book that hasn't had its first issue sell yet and that retailers, I believe, had to put orders in for before Civil War even wrapped up. So...I think the rush to make this an ongoing is unnecessarily premature...and there's still no real demand for it to be an ongoing yet.

[motteditor]

Awesome! Congrats, Dan. I'm so pumped for this. April 4 could be the best day of Passover EVER!

Now just give Omega Flight (aka Avengers West) similar treatment, and have those two and NW be great books that sell well and I'll be as happy as a little girl. And really broke.

[vanhelsin]

Well the three-way war between the two NWO units and the WCW loyalists was damned interesting, and was the height of the show's quality. They really did a good job of keeping the fans guessing and coming up with elaborate plots and reversals and tit-for-tat scheming... then someone in the hierarchy said it was too complex and had to be dumbed down, except they called it "simplified". The whole show jumped the shark not long thereafter.


You mean WCW didn't jump the shark when David Arquette became the WCW heavyweight champion? :p

[khuxford]

One unhatched chicken, two unhatched chickens, three unhatched chickens...

Love the subtlety, sir. Post of the Thread! :)

[kitty_tc]

It appears my hypocrisy knows no bounds.

I imagine you're quoting people who have been critical of Bendis' Avengers. Sure, one of my criticisms was that he stripped the team of all the interesting characters (like Hawkeye and Scarlet Witch) and replaced them with the icons... in a lame attempt to copy DC's JLA book.

My complaints about the current Avengers begin and end with Bendis. IAvengers Dissassembled made me realize that he wasn't going to be writing an Avengers I'd find interesting. And, from what I hear online, I'm glad I've stayed away.

Avengers: The Initiative has no sign of Bendis, as far as I can see. Plus, I like Slott's writing. And the concept of the Initiative is facinating (thought I wished we didn't have to go through Civil War to get it).

So, all that said, Avengers: The Initiative is the only Avengers book I plan on spending my money on.

One: To be absolutely and completely honest with you, in twenty years of Marvel fandom I had never met anyone who liked Hawkeye until I came to these boards. Not one.

Two: You admit to slamming a book you've never read and refuse to ever read.

Three: Yeah, Spider-Woman and Ronin and Luke Cage, what icons! Totally just like JLA, you're right, adding two top sellers and a list of obscure personal favorites to a pair of originals who've been there since the beginning is exactly the same thing as an all-A-list group. On top of that, a team of all A-list characters is an idea unique to DC that Marvel could never have come up with if not for vile, overt plaigarism. How could I have missed such clear parallels?

Four: I'd bet no small amount that if Bendis and Wolverine were obscure and uncared about and Slott and Hawkeye sold like hotcakes, the same people would embrace the former and vilify the latter, just to go against the crowd.

Say it with me, "bashing what's popular and glorifying what isn't does not make me any better, smarter, or cooler than anyone else, and does not make me erudite or elite. It just makes me a troll."

[kitty_tc]

You mean WCW didn't jump the shark when David Arquette became the WCW heavyweight champion? :p

Nah, because it had already jumped way before that point :p :D

[Darth Wahu]

:rolleyes:

Two years from now the Initiative will be to pare down the number of Avengers title back to one or two. What's next, the return of Solo Avengers???

[Nate Palm]

Awesome Warmachine pointing a weapon at a scared little girl. The Avengers are back and better than ever!

[Titan Slade]

So...I think the rush to make this an ongoing is unnecessarily premature...and there's still no real demand for it to be an ongoing yet.

Cool, I had no idea you worked for Marvel comics.

[Ace]

:rolleyes:

Two years from now the Initiative will be to pare down the number of Avengers title back to one or two. What's next, the return of Solo Avengers???

Solo Adventures was a damn fun book

[PhoenixFacto]

I'm in for the first 6 at least, hopefully these will tell a complete story so i can choose at that point whether or not to continue. I hope this book isn't going to be played for comedy like she-hulk. Cuz while i enjoy she-hulk on occasion sometimes i wish it was a bit more serious.

[Knowbrainer]

So the Initiative gets switched to ongoing, and Omega Flight gets bumped down to mini series.

Is it me, or does it look like a connection is there somewhere?

[Sirettx]

well I was going to get this in the trade as I only buy minis in trades, but making this an ongoing, just got it added to my pull list!


cant wait!

[jeffy0825]

Here's another dumb question. On the bi-fold cover, who are the civilians who are immediately on either side of Iron Man? The man to his right could be Rick Jones, but I don't recognize the two women on his left.

Anybody?

Maybe it's the SuperFriends.

[vanhelsin]

I'm in for the first 6 at least, hopefully these will tell a complete story so i can choose at that point whether or not to continue. I hope this book isn't going to be played for comedy like she-hulk. Cuz while i enjoy she-hulk on occasion sometimes i wish it was a bit more serious.


Slott has said that this book will be totally serious, no tongue in cheek or anything of that nature. Even She-Hulk has taken a turn for the more serious lately, with the PLANET WITHOUT A HULK storyline, and I hope it stays in that tone all the time now.

[Gre913]

No. Real. Avengers.

Where's Hawkeye? Where's Scarlet Witch? Where's Wonder Man? Triathalon? Doctor Druid? Vision? Wasp? Because without Cap's Kooky Quartet, it can't possibly be the Avengers. Isn't that what we've heard ad nauseum for two solid years?

The double standard, and the hypocrisy, is disgusting.

You're this emotionally attached to the lineup of an Avengers comic book? Wow.

[vanhelsin]

You're this emotionally attached to the lineup of an Avengers comic book? Wow.


Of course, isn't everyone? I mean..all REAL Avengers fan know that it does NOT get any better then that scrub lineup. ;)

I believe kitty was mocking the faux cries of "desecration" that has been shouted from the hilltops since AVENGERS DISASSEMBLED which will be three yeas ago this summer, along with all the cries about the "murderer" Wolverine and the Cheesecake Spider-Woman, to name but a few lines of comedy gold. :p

[coy_dog0]

I don't think 3 Avengers monthlies is enough. Here are some more title suggestions:

Avengers Unlimited
Sensational Avengers
Avengers: The Hidden Years
Avengers: The Man of Tomorrow
Avengers: War Zone
Avengers: Gotham Central
Avengers Team-Up
Avengers:Origins
Avengers Super-Stories
Peter Parker, The Spectacular Avenger.

and finally:

All -Star Avengers and Robin The Boy Wonder

-mike-el

[Prometheus3]

No. Real. Avengers.

Where's Hawkeye? Where's Scarlet Witch? Where's Wonder Man? Triathalon? Doctor Druid? Vision? Wasp? Because without Cap's Kooky Quartet, it can't possibly be the Avengers. Isn't that what we've heard ad nauseum for two solid years?

The double standard, and the hypocrisy, is disgusting.
There are plenty of "real" Avengers on the cover of the Initiative. If anyone who was on any Avengers team before Avengers Disassembled and New Avengers are considered the "real" Avengers then these "real" Avengers will be in Avengers: The Initiative: Iron Man, Yellowjacket, the Wasp, Black Widow, Wonder Man, War Machine, Ms. Marvel (even though I despise her), She-Hulk, Tigra, and Justice.

Or were you attempting sarcasm?

[beta-ray]

I find it odd. Reading all the comments, the response to Initiative seems lukewarm at best, with many people giving a 'who cares' look at it and more saying, huh?

I can't find anywhere where this "support" to turn Initiatives into an ongoing came from; what fans?? Issue #1 could sell 15,000, who knows?


Oh, I get it, Editorial support, not customer support. Silly me.

Wooooohooooo!

How's that for an enthusiastic response? :p

Seriously though, best news of the day to me. I love Slott's work and the Initiative sounds like an interesting idea. Hope it all comes together well.

And "what fans?" I can't answer that with any certainty, but you do know that Newsarama is only a small subset of comics fandom right? Perhaps marvel got letters? I dunno. Just hate to assume in the negative.

[beta-ray]

No. Real. Avengers.

Where's Hawkeye? Where's Scarlet Witch? Where's Wonder Man? Triathalon? Doctor Druid? Vision? Wasp? Because without Cap's Kooky Quartet, it can't possibly be the Avengers. Isn't that what we've heard ad nauseum for two solid years?

The double standard, and the hypocrisy, is disgusting.

It'd be easier to tell if this is sarcasm if you didn't metnion Wonder Man who is on the cover to the first issue.

[beta-ray]

So the Initiative gets switched to ongoing, and Omega Flight gets bumped down to mini series.

Is it me, or does it look like a connection is there somewhere?

I don't see one. If both happened in the same week maybe I would.

[richstanz]

I have to admit, all I ever seem to read on the internet is:

F*** Marvel for not giving Dan Slott more high-profile work
F*** Marvel for never doing anything with any characters besides Wolverine and Spider-Man (and Luke Cage and Spider-Woman, who are only being featured because Bendis put a gun to Quesada's head)
F*** Marvel for not giving Slott the reigns to the entire MU.
F*** Marvel for putting out another pointless X-Title, when they have plenty of other teams that they never care about.

It seems like this book alleviates all those complaints, and all I read is people bitching about it.

Unbelievable.:rolleyes:

[Bullet_Train]

This is great...but they need to explain how Shocker escaped that bomb in the last Punisher War Journal. From what I could tell Puma took Prowler out before anything happened, and im sure Armadillo survived since he's one of the Texas Rangers and Im positive Rhino did. But others...there'd better be some splainin' goin' on soon.

[kitty_tc]

This is great...but they need to explain how Shocker escaped that bomb in the last Punisher War Journal. From what I could tell Puma took Prowler out before anything happened, and im sure Armadillo survived since he's one of the Texas Rangers and Im positive Rhino did. But others...there'd better be some splainin' goin' on soon.

He didn't escape. He's now the Clocker. :D

[STL]

It'll be nice to have an Avengers book without Bendis for once.

Agreed. And thats why I'll give it a shot. Even if it is spinning out of the worst event ever, I look forward to see Dan's work.

The art seems Cheung-esque at some points.

[paulski]

There are plenty of "real" Avengers on the cover of the Initiative. If anyone who was on any Avengers team before Avengers Disassembled and New Avengers are considered the "real" Avengers then these "real" Avengers will be in Avengers: The Initiative: Iron Man, Yellowjacket, the Wasp, Black Widow, Wonder Man, War Machine, Ms. Marvel (even though I despise her), She-Hulk, Tigra, and Justice.
And therein lies the difference, doesn't it. But apparently some people are so concerned with 'maintaining the rage' against the 'hatas' that they didn't quite get the argument in the first place.

Or were you attempting sarcasm?
Judging by the number of posters that ended up arguing against the point he/she/it was trying to make, I suspect 'rather poorly' would be the answer.

[STL]

I have to admit, all I ever seem to read on the internet is:

F*** Marvel for not giving Dan Slott more high-profile work
F*** Marvel for never doing anything with any characters besides Wolverine and Spider-Man (and Luke Cage and Spider-Woman, who are only being featured because Bendis put a gun to Quesada's head)
F*** Marvel for not giving Slott the reigns to the entire MU.
F*** Marvel for putting out another pointless X-Title, when they have plenty of other teams that they never care about.

It seems like this book alleviates all those complaints, and all I read is people bitching about it.

Unbelievable.:rolleyes:

Some of the complaints make sense though. The market is getting flooded by Marvel post CW and I really worry how some of these titles will hold up. This book included.

Marvel must really believe their sorry excuse for an event brought THAT many new readers in.

I just hope the titles I'm picking up will survive though.

[Beyerstein]

anytime something in comics takes off they oversaturate the market

[grendel824]

One: To be absolutely and completely honest with you, in twenty years of Marvel fandom I had never met anyone who liked Hawkeye until I came to these boards. Not one.

Two: You admit to slamming a book you've never read and refuse to ever read.

Three: Yeah, Spider-Woman and Ronin and Luke Cage, what icons! Totally just like JLA, you're right, adding two top sellers and a list of obscure personal favorites to a pair of originals who've been there since the beginning is exactly the same thing as an all-A-list group. On top of that, a team of all A-list characters is an idea unique to DC that Marvel could never have come up with if not for vile, overt plaigarism. How could I have missed such clear parallels?

Four: I'd bet no small amount that if Bendis and Wolverine were obscure and uncared about and Slott and Hawkeye sold like hotcakes, the same people would embrace the former and vilify the latter, just to go against the crowd.

Say it with me, "bashing what's popular and glorifying what isn't does not make me any better, smarter, or cooler than anyone else, and does not make me erudite or elite. It just makes me a troll."

Quoted for truth.

[grendel824]

One: To be absolutely and completely honest with you, in twenty years of Marvel fandom I had never met anyone who liked Hawkeye until I came to these boards. Not one.

Two: You admit to slamming a book you've never read and refuse to ever read.

Three: Yeah, Spider-Woman and Ronin and Luke Cage, what icons! Totally just like JLA, you're right, adding two top sellers and a list of obscure personal favorites to a pair of originals who've been there since the beginning is exactly the same thing as an all-A-list group. On top of that, a team of all A-list characters is an idea unique to DC that Marvel could never have come up with if not for vile, overt plaigarism. How could I have missed such clear parallels?

Four: I'd bet no small amount that if Bendis and Wolverine were obscure and uncared about and Slott and Hawkeye sold like hotcakes, the same people would embrace the former and vilify the latter, just to go against the crowd.

Say it with me, "bashing what's popular and glorifying what isn't does not make me any better, smarter, or cooler than anyone else, and does not make me erudite or elite. It just makes me a troll."

Quoted for truth.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Anyone else think that James Rhodes will be the guy in the War Machine armor? Seems like a good reason to have him back due to him being cast in the Iron Man Movie.:)


No, we know its James Rhodes. From interviews, and as you also suggest, logic.

[Spiderguy34]

YESS!! I am totally on board for this. Its about time the Avengers finally moved ahead of the X-Men. This is going to be awesome!!

[lordlad]

avengers is to the 2000s what the x-men is to the 90s,

[RedRonin]

Damn it. I was really hoping this was a mini, I didn't want to learn how to spell initiative. Now I have to. DAMN YOU SLOTT!!!!!!

[Jeremy Williams]

:rolleyes:

Two years from now the Initiative will be to pare down the number of Avengers title back to one or two. What's next, the return of Solo Avengers???

Solo Avengers was not a marketable concept when the World was all about the X-Men. Wouldn't you say it's different now. The Initiative is not only created when the Avengers have reached great highs in term of popularity but it's also directly tied to the biggest event of Marvel in the last 5 years, Civil War.

People have been clamoring for new concepts, with Marvel forgetting the rest of their Universe and it's now going to come true. Heck if the fans take issue with that book being an Avengers book, personaly I see it as much more captivating than that. I would not call The Rangers an Avengers team, it's just great to see them again.

Finaly Dan Slott has hooked himself on not only a book that fits him with all these characters but also the high-profile type of lauch that he needed. The sky is the limit with the Initiative.

But one thing comes to light seeing this: Jim Cheung > Stefano Caselli. I know that Caselli is Marvel's hot new thing. But in term of great old fashion kickass super-hero stories, Cheung would fit better to what the fans want. And with Young Avengers and Illuminati, he also has become pretty much Mr. Avengers now.

[Jeremy Williams]

I don't think 3 Avengers monthlies is enough. Here are some more title suggestions:

Avengers Unlimited
Sensational Avengers
Avengers: The Hidden Years
Avengers: The Man of Tomorrow
Avengers: War Zone
Avengers: Gotham Central
Avengers Team-Up
Avengers:Origins
Avengers Super-Stories
Peter Parker, The Spectacular Avenger.

and finally:

All -Star Avengers and Robin The Boy Wonder

-mike-el

Whine whine whine

All you X-Men fans have had their days in the sun. It's time for us to have all the fun.

[EmeraldGuy32]

I will stay on this title as long as Dan Slott is writing it.

[BGSU]

Is Avengers big now because we say it is? BestI can see is we've had a really popular story line, maybe two if you go back to disassembled.
X-Men was extremely popular for a decade or more [deep fan base] before they went to two or more titles. Even then that was artist-fueled [Jim Lee]. I'm not doubting there is demand, but let's not go patting ourselves on the back too much for a title[s] that 3 years ago wasn't that big. X-Force anyone?

[OcCaM]

Awesome Warmachine pointing a weapon at a scared little girl. The Avengers are back and better than ever!

I believe it was popcultureshock.com that I read the first 3 pages to this Initiative, but that's exactly what's happenning.

The page you're looking at is page 3 of that 3 page brouhaha and it's basically WarMachine strongarming a designated young superhuman codenamed Cloud 9 into registering her powers so she can just fly.

Yeah traffic control out of WarMachine yep this new post Civil War is EVERYTHING I want to read about.

Hopefully, this is just a quick scene to show readers the post Civil War Marvel U. who might have bought this without following the other messes and goes on from there.

Much as I love Dan Slott this may be the first book I ever pass on his. Between the art and what might likely be constant reinforcing of this ridiculous registration act, I might lose interest real quickly.

However, if reviews prove that the Avengers remember how to battle REAL villains, y'know people who actually intend harm, then I might pick up the tpb. We'll see...

(Pre-Civil War would have gotten me SOOOOOOOO excited about this Dan Slott project, now I'm generating a meh! But bullying young girls is not what I want to read about. No, no I really don't care what the reasons are either.)

[Mrsupertight]

well, YAY. no i feel less bad about dropping She-Hulk, i can still give Dan my monthly $2.40

i thought it was listed as a mini as long as it's been announced:confused:
are there?

team books:
A: Mighty Avengers, The Initiative, New Avengers
X: X-men, Astonishing, Uncanny, New, Excalibur, does eXiles count?

Solo:
A: Cap, Iron Man, Ms. Marvel
X: Wolverine, Wolverine Origins (or do those count as Avengers books now :p)
i suppose the Spidey Books could count for the Avengers too...

but, yeah, from 1 to 3 core team A books is surprising ~ although i'd imagine The Initiative will be a tad "anthologic" becuse the South Dakota Rug Rats really don't need an ongoing or mini...

Count Exiles made up of mostly some incarnation of X-men. I'd count wolvie as X-men and Spider-man for Avengers. But, you forgot X-factor and Cable & deadpool for X-men. Iron Fist, She-Hulk, Thunderbolts, and I know its not out yet but you have to count the Champions for the Avengers, just to be fair. How about New Warriors??

X-men 10
Avengers 12 (13 when Champions comes out)

[Mrsupertight]

Here's another dumb question. On the bi-fold cover, who are the civilians who are immediately on either side of Iron Man? The man to his right could be Rick Jones, but I don't recognize the two women on his left.

Anybody?

Victor Mancha, from Runaways. He's the son of Ultron.

[khuxford]

Cool, I had no idea you worked for Marvel comics.

Of all the stupid...look...you don't need to work for Marvel to know:

1) A very small number of the first issue have actually been bought by a consumer for their to be ACTUAL demand demonstrated for this to be an ongoing.
2) There's little benefit realized by announcing this as an ongoing NOW before even the first issue hits the racks.
3) When the book hasn't hit the stores yet, no one can have demanded the book be ongoing just on the strength of the content (without having purchased).

Their "demand" is nothing more than them and retailers having a strong hunch right now. They might be spot on (more likely than not), but it is still premature.

[Alextron]

Whine whine whine

All you X-Men fans have had their days in the sun. It's time for us to have all the fun.

The X-men are still great. The difference is the X-men's popularity wasn't forced like NA is. It's spin-offs lasted more than a year or two. We WILL SEE WHO IS LEFT STANDING! The 100 year war for comic supremacy is far from over!:D

[Zugernaut]

Exactly what kind of long-term strategy is it to make likable characters unlikable?

[RonnieThunderbolts]

Victor Mancha, from Runaways. He's the son of Ultron.

No, it isn't. It's one of the new recruits from the mini series, original Dan Slott/ Stefano Caselli creations. The girl with he goggles is Cloud 9, the one with the fin colored green is Komodo, the guy with the dark hair is Trauma. Given the fact that every one of the new recruits in civvies is shown on another cover with the first letter of their name on their shirt (K on Komodo, etc.) for Komodo, Cloud 9 and Trauma, and the blond kid has an H on his shirt, by process of elimination, the brown-haired kid who ISN'T Victor is MVP, we haven't seen the letter on his shirt yet, and we know one of the new characters is MVP.

But logic stands, no other Runaways are on the cover, and they aren't in the mini, so why would that be Victor? Most likely, its MVP, one of several new characters.

[KraziJoe]

I guess I should not have added it to my pull list. Just wanted to see what it was going to be like.
Personally, I dont think the title will amount to much as I have a fanboy view of the Avengers.
I can go for change, like Disassembled, but not for over-saturation.
I will give it 4 issues and if it's just crap with a cover, then it's dropped.

[pez dispenser]

I love the creative team, and I'm an Avengers junkie from way back.
It's funny, I've been paring down my "superhero" comics for more gritty, adult-oriented comics over the last few years, but Marvel keeps pulling me back. First with Runaways, now with yet another Avengers title.

Good stuff.

[summers88]

WOW!! Thank you Marvel!! I have never been a big Avengers fan but since CW I couldn't be happier about another title!! (the ending still wasn't that great though) But thank you for this!! Now just bring back Young Avengers and you'll see one happy collector!!!

[Lex]

One: To be absolutely and completely honest with you, in twenty years of Marvel fandom I had never met anyone who liked Hawkeye until I came to these boards. Not one.

Two: You admit to slamming a book you've never read and refuse to ever read.

Three: Yeah, Spider-Woman and Ronin and Luke Cage, what icons! Totally just like JLA, you're right, adding two top sellers and a list of obscure personal favorites to a pair of originals who've been there since the beginning is exactly the same thing as an all-A-list group. On top of that, a team of all A-list characters is an idea unique to DC that Marvel could never have come up with if not for vile, overt plaigarism. How could I have missed such clear parallels?

Four: I'd bet no small amount that if Bendis and Wolverine were obscure and uncared about and Slott and Hawkeye sold like hotcakes, the same people would embrace the former and vilify the latter, just to go against the crowd.

Say it with me, "bashing what's popular and glorifying what isn't does not make me any better, smarter, or cooler than anyone else, and does not make me erudite or elite. It just makes me a troll."
Wow. You're taking things WAY too seriously.

I'm not bashing Bendis' Avengers because they're popular. I'm bashing them because I personally think Bendis is a bad choice to write Avengers. I hated Avengers Dissassembled, so that told me that I wouldn't like any of his other Avengers work. I had been hoping for Marvel to start a second Avengers book since the beginning of New Avengers... and then they went and started Mighty Avengers.... also written by Bendis (GAH!). That left me feeling like there was no hope of my ever reading an Avengers book again.

But now, I can finally read an ongoing Avengers book. Why? Because there's no Bendis! Oh, and plus I really like Slott.

My point is, all the criticisms just boil down to me not liking Bendis on Avengers. That's it!

So there.

[Samy Merchi]

Best news of the year so far. So friggin' awesome. Slott writing Jim Rhodes, Hank Pym and Vance Astrovik (and the entire MU for that matter) in a high-octane kick-ass fest! This makes the entire Civil War worth it!!

[Superfrick]

Has there really been that much popular demand?

Well, they had an open slot ater downgrading Omega Flight to a limited series

[Lex]

Slott has said that this book will be totally serious, no tongue in cheek or anything of that nature. Even She-Hulk has taken a turn for the more serious lately, with the PLANET WITHOUT A HULK storyline, and I hope it stays in that tone all the time now.
Why are you against fun comics? She-Hulk has been one of the best books at Marvel right now because it's a fun book. Planet Without a Hulk is more serious, but I hope it's just temporary and will go back to be a fun, jokey comic soon.

Why does every comic on the market have to be exactly the same? Why can't some be fun and some be serious and others be inbetween?

[Layters]

So far we have

Komodo
Cloud 9
Trauma
MVP, The All American Athelete.


Gauntlet

seems to be heading up the team.

Justice War Machine and Yellow Jacket have some role too.


Still not sure how the structure of this book will work though.

[Darthphere]

I believe it was popcultureshock.com that I read the first 3 pages to this Initiative, but that's exactly what's happenning.

The page you're looking at is page 3 of that 3 page brouhaha and it's basically WarMachine strongarming a designated young superhuman codenamed Cloud 9 into registering her powers so she can just fly.

Yeah traffic control out of WarMachine yep this new post Civil War is EVERYTHING I want to read about.

Hopefully, this is just a quick scene to show readers the post Civil War Marvel U. who might have bought this without following the other messes and goes on from there.

Much as I love Dan Slott this may be the first book I ever pass on his. Between the art and what might likely be constant reinforcing of this ridiculous registration act, I might lose interest real quickly.

However, if reviews prove that the Avengers remember how to battle REAL villains, y'know people who actually intend harm, then I might pick up the tpb. We'll see...

(Pre-Civil War would have gotten me SOOOOOOOO excited about this Dan Slott project, now I'm generating a meh! But bullying young girls is not what I want to read about. No, no I really don't care what the reasons are either.)

You read the scene with dialogue and everything already? Wow, tell me what happens exactly please.

[AnthonyL]

Wow. I was just reading the Civil War Room Day 3 Q&A and read this by Tom:


TB: There’s always a concern and a question about “how much is too much”, and it’s one that we consider very carefully when undertaking any project. This is why, despite the outrage and protests of Alpha Flight fans, we’re starting OMEGA FLIGHT as a limited series rather than an ongoing, same as AVENGERS: THE INITIATIVE, same as SUB-MARINER. .

Which I thought was cool.

What a difference a day or two makes.

I was at my comic shop this past weekend and my retailer asked me if I wanted everything Initiative related (like I had him pull everything Civil War related, and everything Infinite Crisis related before that)

I said no. I was going to cherry pick this time around what I wanted, and with World War Hulk being bigger than expected, I was starting to get "evented out"

So I said I would just check out the Initiative Limited series some of the tie in issues maybe, but not to pull everything.

Now they make the Limited Series, which I was okay buying because it was just a limited, into an ongoing? I'm already picking up Omega Flight (only because it's a limited) and I've added Mighty Avengers to my pull.

What's up Marvel? I left Marvel a couple years ago (Avengers Dissasembled was my breaking point, I dropped everything except Runaways and Cable / Deadpool and started checking out more DC/Vertigo/Small Press stuff).

I JUST CAME BACK to Marvel as a consumer for Civil War...and you're already making me regret it by making decisions like this. You should leave it alone as a limited, THEN see what people think of it.

Flooding the market is not cool. It drives people (like me) away. It's a turn off. Quality over Quantity.

I know you're a business, Marvel. I understand you're trying to get every dollar you can, but this isn't the way. And no matter how many times the editors at Marvel deny it, this IS starting to look like the 90's all over again, complete with speculation (I can't tell you how many dealers at MegaCon this year tried to talk me into buying key Spider-Man issues as investment opportunities because of the upcoming movie).

Doomed to repeat the past if you don't learn from it.

Anthony L

[Amoebas]

No. Real. Avengers.

Where's Hawkeye? Where's Scarlet Witch? Where's Wonder Man? Triathalon? Doctor Druid? Vision? Wasp? Because without Cap's Kooky Quartet, it can't possibly be the Avengers. Isn't that what we've heard ad nauseum for two solid years?

The double standard, and the hypocrisy, is disgusting.Imo...

It's not "who is an Avenger" it's more "what makes an Avenger". Is an Avenger anyone who says they're an Avenger...

Or is an Avenger someone who will not back down against incredible odds? Someone who will not stoop to the level of the person/thing they are fighting? Someone who will uphold honor and respect for his allies and the public at large?

Hawkeye fits that bill for me. He does not kill. He strives to do the greater good. He talked Mach 1 into turning himself into the authorities for a murder he had comitted when he was the Beetle (why? - because it was the right thing to do).

Wolverine does not fit the bill for me. He does kill. He doesn't show all that much remorse for it. He does not face any type of justice for his actions. As far as I know, he's never even been charged with assault let alone all the maiming and killing he's done. Ms. Marvel faced a court martial for doing once what Wolverine does everyday.

In that same vein - Druid, Tony Stark and Black Widow are no longer worthy of the name either (while Simon, Vision & Jan do).

It's not the costume - it's the heart of the person/entity within that makes an Avenger.
It's the 'ideal' - and not someone that the writer thinks would be 'kewl' to have on the team.

From what I've read of Slott over the years - he GETS it. From what I've seen Bendis do with the Avengers - he does NOT get it.

So for me, the "not a real Avenger" argument is still quite justified.

[Johnny Smith]

(I can't tell you how many dealers at MegaCon this year tried to talk me into buying key Spider-Man issues as investment opportunities because of the upcoming movie).


Too funny!!! :D :D :D

[kitty_tc]

Why are you against fun comics? She-Hulk has been one of the best books at Marvel right now because it's a fun book. Planet Without a Hulk is more serious, but I hope it's just temporary and will go back to be a fun, jokey comic soon.

Why does every comic on the market have to be exactly the same? Why can't some be fun and some be serious and others be inbetween?

Because fighting criminals is not fun and games, and should not ever be portrayed that way. Anytime you have a comedy or lighthearted or worse yet deconstructionist title that takes place in the same continuity as your serious work, you shoot suspension of disbelief in the foot. Really, is it so difficult to understand that grinning, jokey, happy go lucky superheroes kill any sense of tension or danger or fear in your stories? They undermine any attempt to establish a serious tone in your shared universe by mocking it's conventions and injecting levity into situations in which it does not and should never belong.

Honestly, what beyond tradition makes you people think for even a moment that crimefighting is a fun, lighthearted affair? Sure, things like "world's dumbest criminals" happens, and it's certainly appropriate to laugh in situations like that once the danger has passed. Sure, some people are more dangerous than others, but in the field you can never be sure what you're dealing with until the threats are safely neutralized. Underestimating anyone in a potential combat situation --and yes, in law enforcement everything is a potential combat situation-- is a good way to get yourself killed.

No one ever looks at cops and thinks "wow, that's so fun, I bet they grin all day as they face fun, lighthearted, amusing situations", do they? So what gives anyone the idea that adding in inborn weaponry makes the situation better instead of even worse? Really, how does that position even make the slightest bit of sense?

My uncle was a New Orleans cop for many years. He could tell a joke with the best of them, and in fact he had a pretty grim sense of humor because of the things he'd seen and experienced. But there was never for a moment any doubt that what he did was deadly serious, and even as a child it came through loud and clear that law enforcement is just a little bit like war. It's dangerous, stressful work with deadly consequences for failing to take it seriously. Depicting crimefighting in fiction as anything less is a disrespect and a disservice to the subject and the people who do it for real.

The Marvel Adventures line exists for a reason. The kind of fun, lighthearted and humorous kid-gloves storytelling treatment some of you are looking for fits in there, not in the mainline universe where crime needs to be treated with the seriousness it deserves.

[Morbius]

After the butt ugly CW: YA/Runaways, Casselli makes this a no go for me. Although I am a little ticked because they're probably going to try and make me buy it with important events and/or crossovers with New and Mighty. :rolleyes:

[bomaya]

absolutely brilliant news. it has made my day! :D

Slott is my favourite writer in comics right now and I'm overjoyed that this has been re-instated to ongoing status....oh yeah on that: Omega Flight fans, The A:I was also originally an ongoing. It was downgraded to mini at the same time as OF. So, presumably support for the Avengers book has been greater thanks to pre-orders than OF. It's not rocket science.

[khuxford]

absolutely brilliant news. it has made my day! :D

Slott is my favourite writer in comics right now and I'm overjoyed that this has been re-instated to ongoing status....oh yeah on that: Omega Flight fans, The A:I was also originally an ongoing. It was downgraded to mini at the same time as OF. So, presumably support for the Avengers book has been greater thanks to pre-orders than OF. It's not rocket science.

Sorry...but you're wrong.

NRAMA: Wrapping up for this week Joe, we're starting to see glimpses of what the Marvel Universe is going to look like following Civil War. One thing that's still hanging out there - Dan Slott's book. Can you finally say what it is going to be and what it's about?

JQ: I'm not going to go into detail, but it's called Avengers: The Initiative.

Wait, hold on…

What's that… that sound?

Is it… is it… yes it is!

I think I just heard the slightest bit of breaking across the internet!

NRAMA: We've seen an "Initiative" in Civil War, which was part of the Pro-Reg side's plan to have teams of super heroes in each state. Is that what we're talking about here, or has the term been appropriated by others for their own use?

JQ: Well, that is kind of the question isn't it? To reveal that would give away a very interesting plot point of Civil War, so be happy you got that much out of me [laughs].

NRAMA: Well then, going back to what you said, this is one of those scripts that is already generating quite a lot of buzz in the Marvel offices, and, as you've said, was one of the only books to make the cut at the Marvel Editorial summit. What is it about this book that just has everyone so jazzed?

JQ: Dan Slott's ideas. I've now sat in a few creative meetings with Dan and he is really coming of age here. I will say this and I kid you not, when it comes to creative spit balling, he is right up there with Bendis, JMS, Millar, Loeb and Brubaker. Dan Slott is the real deal, he's impressed us to no end, we just have to figure out a way to get him to write faster! He is the biggest superstar in comics that no one knows about.

NRAMA: How many issues, and when will it launch?

JQ: Currently it's planned as a six issue series. Of course, with enough fan support, you never know what may happen afterwards.

See it for yourself at: http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NJF_26.html

A 6 issue series. That's called a mini-series, sir. It was NOT initially announced as an ongoing.

Now...show me where it was an ongoing and then downgraded. You can't. Which means you shouldn't try to jump in and correct people based on your faulty memory with no facts to back it up. :D

[twincast]

I'm confused... I thought that junior Lizard was male. Now there's tits. Well, either way's fine.

Anyway,
I was actually rather happy for my pull list to shrink back down after the six issues...
Well, since it's the only Avengers title I'm really interested in (conceptually and because of the other reasons following), the book with the highest likelihood of having the YA appear in it, written by Slott and with art I like... my wallet weeps.

edit: eh? he also did YA/Runaways? the preview art (while not mind-boggling) looks far better than that crapfest, IMO. strange...

[kallup]

Sorry...but you're wrong.



See it for yourself at: http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NJF_26.html

A 6 issue series. That's called a mini-series, sir. It was NOT initially announced as an ongoing.

Now...show me where it was an ongoing and then downgraded. You can't. Which means you shouldn't try to jump in and correct people based on your faulty memory with no facts to back it up. :D

Your hand must be starting to hurt for all these spankin's you're doling out!

[khuxford]

Your hand must be starting to hurt for all these spankin's you're doling out!

LOL...well...that time was meant to be a bit of a verbal spanking. I mean...if the guy came in uncertain...or didn't make the post about correcting others...I woulda just left it! :D

[longshot7]

Because fighting criminals is not fun and games, and should not ever be portrayed that way. Anytime you have a comedy or lighthearted or worse yet deconstructionist title that takes place in the same continuity as your serious work, you shoot suspension of disbelief in the foot. Really, is it so difficult to understand that grinning, jokey, happy go lucky superheroes kill any sense of tension or danger or fear in your stories? They undermine any attempt to establish a serious tone in your shared universe by mocking it's conventions and injecting levity into situations in which it does not and should never belong.

Honestly, what beyond tradition makes you people think for even a moment that crimefighting is a fun, lighthearted affair? Sure, things like "world's dumbest criminals" happens, and it's certainly appropriate to laugh in situations like that once the danger has passed. Sure, some people are more dangerous than others, but in the field you can never be sure what you're dealing with until the threats are safely neutralized. Underestimating anyone in a potential combat situation --and yes, in law enforcement everything is a potential combat situation-- is a good way to get yourself killed.

No one ever looks at cops and thinks "wow, that's so fun, I bet they grin all day as they face fun, lighthearted, amusing situations", do they? So what gives anyone the idea that adding in inborn weaponry makes the situation better instead of even worse? Really, how does that position even make the slightest bit of sense?

My uncle was a New Orleans cop for many years. He could tell a joke with the best of them, and in fact he had a pretty grim sense of humor because of the things he'd seen and experienced. But there was never for a moment any doubt that what he did was deadly serious, and even as a child it came through loud and clear that law enforcement is just a little bit like war. It's dangerous, stressful work with deadly consequences for failing to take it seriously. Depicting crimefighting in fiction as anything less is a disrespect and a disservice to the subject and the people who do it for real.

The Marvel Adventures line exists for a reason. The kind of fun, lighthearted and humorous kid-gloves storytelling treatment some of you are looking for fits in there, not in the mainline universe where crime needs to be treated with the seriousness it deserves.

So I take it you weren't buying NEXTWAVE, huh? Lighten up - it's only funnybooks.

[camax]

Awesome announcement! Avengers, new/lesser featured heroes, the concept, and the fact that Dan Slott GETS how to write these nostalgic guys - I am signed up for issue one on!

[johnchrist]

god damnit I may have to buy this one... this might finally bring my pull list to 50/50 superhero/alternative comics

[RonnieThunderbolts]

I'm confused... I thought that junior Lizard was male. Now there's tits. Well, either way's fine.

There was an assumption based purely on the cover to issue 2 that Komodo was male, despite reports from Slott and multiple preview materials depicting her as female from the beginning. Even after initial reports of the character, including gender, a few folk here insisted she was male until Slott confirmed it here, all during the NY Comicon a couple weeks ago.

[Eli Renfro]

I have no idea why, if you love Slott's writing so much, you're letting a story - which was not written by Slott or has no effect on Slott's writing at all, stop you from picking this up.

And how is this *not* a REAL Avengers book - or less of an Avengers book than Mighty Avengers which hasn't seen one issue printed?

1. I thought this would be pretty obvious, but I guess not. It's because this book is inextricably linked to the Civil War plot and everything that came from that. I mean, imagine if you were married and you found out your wife was cheating on you and you got divorced. Would you keep going to her favorite restaraunt, or wear the shirt she got you for your first anniversary? Probably you wouldn't want to put yourself though that anymore than you have to, unless you're a masochist.

2. I don't read spoilers that thoroughly, especially more than the next months' comics, but my understanding is that this book is about not one team but all 50 states' teams and that structure. It's not so much about who is and who isn't on the team as that fact that it be, you know, one team of "Avengers." So to me "Avengers: The Initiative" is kind of a misnomer, a better title would be Marvel Universe: The Initiative, or just The Initiative, or maybe North Dakota Needs Super-Heroes Too.

[JediMaster]

3 Avengers titles !

Yeah, but only one is written by Slott! That's the only one that counts!!! ;)

[lfhobbies]

Wow. You're taking things WAY too seriously.

I'm not bashing Bendis' Avengers because they're popular. I'm bashing them because I personally think Bendis is a bad choice to write Avengers. I hated Avengers Dissassembled, so that told me that I wouldn't like any of his other Avengers work. I had been hoping for Marvel to start a second Avengers book since the beginning of New Avengers... and then they went and started Mighty Avengers.... also written by Bendis (GAH!). That left me feeling like there was no hope of my ever reading an Avengers book again.

But now, I can finally read an ongoing Avengers book. Why? Because there's no Bendis! Oh, and plus I really like Slott.

My point is, all the criticisms just boil down to me not liking Bendis on Avengers. That's it!

So there.


Just go down to your LCS and sit down and read the first New Avengers trade - try to do it with no preconceptions or 'Auto Hate Bendis' (AHB is a common infliction that many newsboard posters have that there is currently no cure for :) ) I know that is tough - but try to do it and then come back and say you don't like NA -

If you still don't like it then that is your right - but hating a title and feeling so strongly about it that you write posts about how bad it is and then coming out and saying you haven't read it just seems weird. I currently hate All Star Batman and Robin - the story is amazingly weak, the writer doesn't seem to have a love for the characters. He portrays Batman as an unlikable ass (IMHO). That must mean Frank Miller can't write Batman..... Yeah thats what it must mean :rolleyes:

[DaVeO]

Ugh, gimme Omega Flight ongoing instead please.

[Fan4Fan]

3 Avengers titles !

And I'm even less interested in the Avengers than I used to be.

More power to the folks that can maintain an interest over (and afford) multiple ongoings, but I think this is getting a bit ridiculous.

And don't forget, there is still Marvel Adventures: Avengers... which, quite frankly, has the best chance of getting me to buy a book with Avengers on the cover.

[DaVeO]

I can see the next event: Civil Fan War:Avengers Fans vs X-Men Fans. Whose family are you in? :p

[philibu]

This is great news!

[BlueBeetleIII]

One: To be absolutely and completely honest with you, in twenty years of Marvel fandom I had never met anyone who liked Hawkeye until I came to these boards. Not one.[Quote]

In my 25 years I have met many Hawkeye fans. Guess it is good your boradening your social group.

[QUOTE=kitty_tc]
Two: You admit to slamming a book you've never read and refuse to ever read./[Quote]
There are also a lot of people who praise a book they have no read yet. What do you say to them

[QUOTE=kitty_tc]
Four: I'd bet no small amount that if Bendis and Wolverine were obscure and uncared about and Slott and Hawkeye sold like hotcakes, the same people would embrace the former and vilify the latter, just to go against the crowd.[Quote]
And the people who love Bendis and Wolverine would suddenly love Slott and Hawkeye.

[QUOTE=kitty_tc]
Say it with me, "bashing what's popular and glorifying what isn't does not make me any better, smarter, or cooler than anyone else, and does not make me erudite or elite. It just makes me a troll."
Say it with me "just because you agree with what is popular does not make you any better than those that don't. Have you ever not liked something that was popular? Were you a troll then?

[Salieri]

That makes me seriously chomp at the bit. Especially with that Spidey/Kimono/uber-loser villans art.

[kitty_tc]

Imo...

It's not "who is an Avenger" it's more "what makes an Avenger". Is an Avenger anyone who says they're an Avenger...

Or is an Avenger someone who will not back down against incredible odds? Someone who will not stoop to the level of the person/thing they are fighting? Someone who will uphold honor and respect for his allies and the public at large?

Hawkeye fits that bill for me. He does not kill. He strives to do the greater good. He talked Mach 1 into turning himself into the authorities for a murder he had comitted when he was the Beetle (why? - because it was the right thing to do).

Wolverine does not fit the bill for me. He does kill. He doesn't show all that much remorse for it. He does not face any type of justice for his actions. As far as I know, he's never even been charged with assault let alone all the maiming and killing he's done. Ms. Marvel faced a court martial for doing once what Wolverine does everyday.

In that same vein - Druid, Tony Stark and Black Widow are no longer worthy of the name either (while Simon, Vision & Jan do).

It's not the costume - it's the heart of the person/entity within that makes an Avenger.
It's the 'ideal' - and not someone that the writer thinks would be 'kewl' to have on the team.

From what I've read of Slott over the years - he GETS it. From what I've seen Bendis do with the Avengers - he does NOT get it.

So for me, the "not a real Avenger" argument is still quite justified.

With all due respect, in my mind it's you who don't seem to get it.

"Facing incredible odds" means nothing when you're playing the game with a loaded set of dice, and it's very easy to keep to limited rules of engagement when you're artificially protected from adverse consequences.

Is it brave to rush headlong into battle with only a bow and arrow? Yes, if your enemy can actually kill you. Not so much if that possibility isn't on the table. And of course we all know that popularity is a shield from death in any serialized form of fiction, but the illusion of danger must be there. Suspension of disbelief must be maintained, and events and situations depicted must retain plausibility . If a situation arises where by all logic a character should die or be maimed or injured, and you provide no explanation for why this does not occur beyond a simple desire to avoid negative outcomes, then your story is a farce and cannot possibly be taken seriously.

Is it noble to refuse to kill or use low tactics? Sure, if there are no consequences to your actions. Not so much if your stubborn refusal to adjust to the reality of a situation results in adverse consequences. For example, say you're a parent, and a costumed bowman has a dangerous criminal dead to rights, and refuses to take the shot. Say that criminal goes on to rape and murder your young daughter. How would you feel about said bowman's moral code? Would he seem heroic to you, or negligent? Again, if you set up the situation and then refuse to follow through on the logical outcomes for artificial reasons, it's a cop-out. You cannot insult the intelligence of your readers that way and expect to be taken seriously as a quality storyteller.

Do you understand this? It's the difference between serious fiction and shallow, meaningless pablum. Yes, children's fiction artificially shields it's readers from reality, but mainstream comics are not children's fiction. If you want that, then the Marvel Adventures line is what you should be looking at. If comics are to be taken seriously by and for an adult audience, it needs to be held to the standards of fantasy and science fiction rather than that of juvenile fiction.

"Comics for kids" are and have long been a specialized niche, ever since the early 60's when Stan Lee aimed his comics and his company solidly at a college age market. They are not mainstream, and have not been for forty years now. Please stop trying to hold regular comics to standards that do not apply.

[RonnieThunderbolts]

That makes me seriously chomp at the bit. Especially with that Spidey/Kimono/uber-loser villans art.

Komodo, as in dragon.

[Kolimar]

Excellent news. :)

[richstanz]

1. I thought this would be pretty obvious, but I guess not. It's because this book is inextricably linked to the Civil War plot and everything that came from that. I mean, imagine if you were married and you found out your wife was cheating on you and you got divorced. Would you keep going to her favorite restaraunt, or wear the shirt she got you for your first anniversary? Probably you wouldn't want to put yourself though that anymore than you have to, unless you're a masochist.

2. I don't read spoilers that thoroughly, especially more than the next months' comics, but my understanding is that this book is about not one team but all 50 states' teams and that structure. It's not so much about who is and who isn't on the team as that fact that it be, you know, one team of "Avengers." So to me "Avengers: The Initiative" is kind of a misnomer, a better title would be Marvel Universe: The Initiative, or just The Initiative, or maybe North Dakota Needs Super-Heroes Too.

1. I really don't think that metaphor is appropriate - what would make more sense is if you found out that Dan Slott ghost-wrote CW. The way it sounds/ends is all because of Slott . Would you keep reading your favorite Slott comic? Maybe then I would understand apprehension in reading Slott. But were She-Hulk, and Slott's writing, ruined by CW tie-ins?

2. Yeah, it is a misnomer, and Marvel has admited that they're using "Avengers" to hook readers. But it is Slott writing a majority of the Marvel Universe - something a lot of his fans have wanted for awhile. And I don't think it matters what company-wide editorial directive is going on - talent is talent - so isn't it conceivable that Slott can still write good stories with these characters? Doyou think CW was so awful that its technically impossible for great writers, and your favorite writers, to get good stories out ifs aftermath?

What I think is going with a lot of newsarama posters is Slott has officially joined the other side to them. Now we can't bitch that Marvel doesn't give him enough exposure, because they just gave him a book with the entire MU as his cast. And we can't say they are only throwing it out there - not caring how it does - because it just got bumped up to on-going, despite poor, poor Omega Flight getting downgraded. And making a 3rd Avengers title means that despite how awful Bendis' Avengers concept is, and despite Millar's character-raping CW, it means that somebody out there might want to buy more of it.

I have no reason to believe that this book is going to suffer from an over-saturated market. Its got too big of a hook to not grab readers. If anything, the books that will suffer are Heroes 4 Hire (which already is), Ms.Marvel, the new Ant-Man, Punisher War Journal (maybe), and Omega Flight. Those books that are limited in scope compared to this one. And since its Slott - we all know it will be terrifically written... unless the internet finally wants to admit Slott's not perfect and maybe, just maybe, could write a disappointing story.

[JonahsWhale]

This makes me quite happy. In all honesty, Dan Slott is the one Marvel or DC creator who consistently stands out as truly having FUN in his work. It translates into a consistently great read each month. I wish, given the Thing's unique CW position, that Marvel had allowed Slott to give him voice in his own series instead of cancelling it pre-CW.

[bomaya]

Sorry...but you're wrong.



See it for yourself at: http://www.newsarama.com/NewJoeFridays/NJF_26.html

A 6 issue series. That's called a mini-series, sir. It was NOT initially announced as an ongoing.

Now...show me where it was an ongoing and then downgraded. You can't. Which means you shouldn't try to jump in and correct people based on your faulty memory with no facts to back it up. :D

Heh. Well you were quite polite in your reply so I'll continue in the same vein. ;)

I was referring to the fact that this book was initially mentioned many moons ago as a secret project that Slott was working on. It was said to be far more serious in tone than his other Marvel works, more like his Arkham mini series and would be an ongoing set in the middle of the Marvel Universe.

Oh and in case you think I'm anti-OF, I'm not. I added both books to my pull list as soon as they were solicited. :p

[khuxford]

Heh. Well you were quite polite in your reply so I'll continue in the same vein. ;)

I was referring to the fact that this book was initially mentioned many moons ago as a secret project that Slott was working on. It was said to be far more serious in tone than his other Marvel works, more like his Arkham mini series and would be an ongoing set in the middle of the Marvel Universe.

Oh and in case you think I'm anti-OF, I'm not. I added both books to my pull list as soon as they were solicited. :p