THOR: BEING KING, NO EASY THING

[MattBrady]

<img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/Marvel/Thor1.jpg" width="175" height="307" align="right" border="0">by Chris Partin

While every other “Heroes Reborn” title has gone through creative team, and, in Captain America’s case, imprint changes, Marvel’s Thor has remained consistent for nearly five years in the writing department, with Dan Jurgens giving the Thunder God a new civilian id, taking it away, killing Thor’s father, and parking Asgard over New York City. And he’s only beginning.

Jurgens took the time to talk with Newsarama a little about how Thor has changed as a series and as a character, especially in the last year’s worth of stories. In short, this ain’t yer daddy’s Thunder God.

"I think the series and Thor have changed a great deal." Jurgens told Newsarama. "We spent the first year simply reintroducing Thor to the readers and the second year reintroducing much of his classic cast. Our stories have run the gamut from earth to Asgard and beyond. We've told small earth stories, centering on Thor and Jake Olson, and also gone galactic. Right now we're trying to fuse the two worlds of Thor by bringing Asgard to earth."

In the last year, Jurgens has made some bold moves in the series to take it beyond the status quo and make this Thor all his own. Over the last twelve issues, Jurgens has moved the pieces around on the board in a manner that may not be easy to reset one day (as has been done with various writer’s runs on Thor past) if ever. There have been “classic” tales in years past, but Jurgens has taken the series a step higher by removing a key figure, not only in the series itself, but in Norse mythology - Odin. By killing off Odin, the role for Thor was open to ascend into the position of All-Father of those living in Asgard, and the dynamic of the character was altered. Casual readers may have thought this was a gimmick or a story arc only to bring things back to normal down the road. It wasn’t.

<img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/Marvel/Thor5.jpg" width="175" height="265" align="left" border="0">"I heard a little bit of everything." Jurgens said in reference to the response to Odin's death. "The most prominent response was, 'Oh. Odin's gone…again. Dead. Yeah, right. Thor will run Asgard for a day, find something more important to do and take off so Loki can take control.' Obviously, we haven't done that. For us, Odin really is dead. Gone. Pushing up daisies. Deader than Monty Python's parrot.

"Equally important is the fact that Thor is still Lord of Asgard, and he's making changes. He's no simple caretaker, trying to do what Odin did, that's for sure."

With so many years of history behind the character prior to even Jurgens taking on the series as writer, Thor has become a lot different that he was even when the latest volume of the series began after Heroes Return. But is it just the series or is the need to change with the times and the interest of the readers?

<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/Marvel/Thor2.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/Marvel/Thor2_t.jpg" width="200" height="168" align="right" border="0" alt="Thor's followers meet a bloody end, detail from Thor #58"></a>"I think writing comics in general have changed, along with writing Thor." Jurgens commented, "Our market has changed a great deal over the last four or five years. Readers demand more change from the characters as, more than ever before, we have to respond to the idea that they've read lots of Thor stories already. They don't want to read the same story all over again. As they age and their lives change, they want to see that reflected in the books they read.

"On top of all that, the quality of Marvel books has improved dramatically. Marvel is producing so many great books right now that it keeps us working harder to keep up. For the readers, that's a great thing."

With the continuing evolution of the character and the series, one new aspect is slowly creeping in and that is the views of the people of Earth toward the gods of Asgard. Thor has brought Asgard to the skies of Midgard (Earth – parking it right over Manhattan, actually) and many civilians are taking notice.

<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/Marvel/Thor3.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/Marvel/Thor3_t.jpg" width="250" height="198" align="left" border="0" alt="Thor's seeks cousel on his course of action, detail from Thor #58"></a>Marvel.com is currently providing a preview of January's release of Thor #58 (part one of the three-part “Standoff” crossover with Iron Man and The Avengers) in which Thor’s worshippers are killed for the mere act of worshipping a “pagan” god. Religion has always been in the background of Thor mainly in the knowledge that the series centers around a Norse god, but now that religion is moving to the forefront of the series, how far will it go?

"Frankly, it's going to go quite a long way,” Jurgens said. “We have to ask ourselves how the world might react if someone really started making the changes Thor has made. He's fed the hungry, housed the homeless and removed despots from power. He's cured the sick and turned deserts into fertile fields. But even as all this has transpired, a world that always seems eager to latch onto the Next Big Thing has turned him into the idol of all idols. Thor said he was a god. For the first time ever, a number of people seem ready to accept that notion and they're building religions around him."

Following a fill-in written by Christopher Priest set in the future, Jurgens will explore the implications of the world’s growing “Asgardianism” in issue #60, the first part of the “Spiral” storyarc.

<a href="http://classic.newsarama.com/Marvel/thor_60.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://classic.newsarama.com/Marvel/thor_60_t.jpg" width="175" height="270" align="right" border="0" alt="Thor #60 cover by Dan Brereton"></a> “By all accounts, and given Thor’s actions, life should be great, right? But every action has an opposite reaction and ‘Spiral’ will delve into that,” Jurgens said. “Thor's accomplishments have been incredible. Huge numbers of people are following "Asgardianism" as a religion, devoting themselves to Thor and their thought of what he wants.

”But the negative repercussions are massive and growing fast. Nothing can change so fast or dramatically without giving birth to upheaval and chaos. ‘Spiral’ tells the story of what happens when the ideals are just, but the results aren't. Thor might be able to control events, but what happens when he learns he can't control religious fervor and people?”

In addition to all that has come before, Jurgens wants readers to "come to expect the unexpected."

"One of the things we're really trying hard to do is change the basic perception of what a Thor comic is. We're trying to tell different kinds of stories that add to the legend and myth of a god. For that, the basic premise of the stories has to be huge in scope and we're doing our best to deliver that."

[Aaron Weisbrod]

Great article! :D

I can stress enough how good of a title THOR has become over the past few months.

It's now comparable to a version of THE AUTHORITY that doesn't rely on uber-violnce to be "cool."

Preparing for the flames, ;)
Aaron Weisbrod

[Aaron Weisbrod]

Errr... I meant "violence."

Red-faced,
Aaron Weisbrod

[spid3y]

Thor has been on my "titles to be cancelled as soon as this book sucks" list for 3 years.

But thanks to Dan Jurgens, Thor is still one of my favorite titles.

I'm really glad Marvel hasn't messed with Thor since Heroes Reborn!!!

[toolverine]

I just realized what I was missing about a month ago when I picked up issue #55. Jurgens is doing some awesome things with Thor, a character I previously had no affinity for.

[PopCultureKid]

Seems like the perfect time to be delving into themes of religion and religious fanaticism, doesn't it?

[Howard Roark]

Coming from a THOR reader of 30+ years,... THOR under Dan Jurgens rivals - and in some cases surpasses - the Simonson and Kirby (Yes, AND Kirby) issues. I've enjoyed Dan's work since BATMAN, through WARLORD, various Marvel Comics titles, and of course, SUPERMAN.

Now if only they could nail down a consistent artist. Romita, Jr was exciting, while the others have been average, except for Stuart Immonen(sp?). Though I loved his work, his new darker style is well suited for THOR. His current work on THE INCREDIBLE HULK is beautiful.

Why is Stuart not under an exclusive agreement?

[OM]

...I have only one complaint about this article: did it really need to reference Heroes Regurgitated as much as it did? 96.32% of those who actually read Liefeld's raping of our heroes are still traumatized from that run, and really don't care to have those horrible memories revisited.

No. Really.

[Tom Daylight]

They ought to do Superman like this.

[Fan4Fan]

[quote]"I think writing comics in general have changed, along with writing Thor." Jurgens commented, "Our market has changed a great deal over the last four or five years. Readers demand more change from the characters as, more than ever before, we have to respond to the idea that they've read lots of Thor stories already. They don't want to read the same story all over again. As they age and their lives change, they want to see that reflected in the books they read. <hr></blockquote>

Waid could learn something about this... evolve the characters rather than hit the reset button.

Tho' I've never read Thor or particularly liked the character, Jurgens approach has me interested.

Thanks,
Fan4Fan

[xdemon]

Thor has become one of the best books Marvel produces. I have no idea where it's heading and I love it.

[The Blue Spider]

<Font color=blue>as long as Thor is written in character...

I remember the character remarking once or twice that while he is "a god" he is not the kind that people worship as a diety or should worship as a diety.

Thing is, Thor was split into two beings by Odin. Thor may have learned humility and gained human traits as Donald Blake but after the split into Jake Olsen and Thor we've found that some of his personality traits are missing from each being. His humility and humanity is gone into the form of the man. Thor the god now has even greater power and less temperance. Basically as long as Dan Jurgens keeps track of all of his pieces the story could end up well. If it he loses track of one the story will crash hard under the stress of mischaracterization and shallow drama.

My question is: how does Thor regard the worship of himself even now? How does someone who is not literally omniscient take adulation and recognition as a supreme being?</font>

[Storm]

I've enjoyed watching the Enchantress eclipse Sif as Thor's romantic interest; something I've always wanted to see ever since I was a little kid!

[MikeD]

FROM THE ARTICLE: While every other “Heroes Reborn” title has gone through creative team, and, in Captain America’s case, imprint changes, Marvel’s Thor has remained consistent for nearly five years in the writing department, with Dan Jurgens giving the Thunder God a new civilian id, taking it away, killing Thor’s father, and parking Asgard over New York City. And he’s only beginning.

[quote]Originally posted by OM:
<strong>...I have only one complaint about this article: did it really need to reference Heroes Regurgitated as much as it did? 96.32% of those who actually read Liefeld's raping of our heroes are still traumatized from that run, and really don't care to have those horrible memories revisited.

No. Really.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think there's some confusion here between "Heroes Reborn" and "Heroes Return."

"Reborn" was the Liefeld/Lee debacle, of which Thor appeared in Avengers but did not have his own title.

"Return" re-integrated the characters into the Marvel Universe, which was when the current volume of Thor, under Jurgens, debuted.

[Icewing_X]

Depending on my reaction to the entire Thor issue during the Standoff event (I read the dotComics preview and liked it), I might pick up the title on a regular basis.

We'll see.

~Icewing, 'Spiral' sounds promising

[Mel's Man]

[quote]Originally posted by OM:
<strong>...I have only one complaint about this article: did it really need to reference Heroes Regurgitated as much as it did? 96.32% of those who actually read Liefeld's raping of our heroes are still traumatized from that run, and really don't care to have those horrible memories revisited.

No. Really.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Not to diverge too far from the thread, but I'd have to say that the Heroes Reborn Fantastic Four was cool and the Avengers, after Rob took off, was starting to catch. Now Cap never hit for me and Iron Man was about 1/2 good.
As to the reason for the thread, Dan is a leader (along with Johns and Austen) in bringing back the comicbook feel of comics.
Finally feel okay about giving MAINSTREAM superhero comics to kids again.

Caleb, <a href="http://www.comicworldnews.com" target="_blank">www.comicworldnews.com</a>

[Aaron Weisbrod]

Just for the heck of it I picked-up THOR #55 just for the heck of it a few months back (which is something we ALL should do a little more often), and I was completely blown away by how good the issue was.

Never being a fan of THOR (neither the book or the character) or Jurgens, I was simply amazed by how good the story was. Honestly, I cannot recommend this title highly enough!

Talking with his mouth full,
Aaron Weisbrod

[AvengerPhil]

[quote]Originally posted by xdemon:
<strong>Thor has become one of the best books Marvel produces. I have no idea where it's heading and I love it.</strong><hr></blockquote>

These have been my thoughts for about a year.

[Cloak & Dagger]

I wanna see what the Lai brothers can do with the character. Thor should ALWAYS have an artist with a really powerful style. Something that looks fresh and strong in bright colours.

As for Jurgens run on Thor. I've enjoyed almost everything he's done with the book. There were some issues that didn't really click with me, but otherwise, he's done a commendable job.

[StoneGold]

Jimminy Jillickers! Is this like THE most positive Newsarama response for a Marvel thread EVER???

[TTROY]

Wow I am throroughly impressed, not a negative comment in the bunch....

Jurgens does have one of the longest runs (if not the longest) of any creator currently on a Marvel title....why? because it is good solid comic book work...no bells no whistles...He does his job and entertains on a monthly basis.
I do have this to say the book has been blessed with great artists...Romita,Larsen,Kubert,Immonen and Raney all brought something to the table and it shows the book is a solid read after 5 years
Looking forward to the next five.
Dan - can you last longer than you did on Superman?

[MindTricked]

Y'know, it warms my heart to read all the positivity here. Quick! Everyone feel their heads! There must be a fever going around!

Anyway, let me add to this happy atmosphere. History - I never cared for Thor before I got back into collecting, after a 9-year absence, in '96. I picked up the Heroes Reborn stuff out of curiousity and an off-thought about "collecting stuff that would be valuable." Anywhom, enter Heroes Return. Jurgens (a well-known and liked writer) with JR Jr (one of the current best, period), and the chance to get in on the ground floor. Through this team, I got to really know/like/care about Thor, something I never even considered, despite being a fan of the basic mythology. There were some bumps... but Dan's pulled it through, and the past year or so, he's been on fire (much like Odin, but with a much more pleasant result). Like several posters mentioned, I have no idea where this is all going, and I'm happy for that. I just know that when the $#i+ hits the fan, it's going to be spectacular. Keep it going, Dan... keep it going.

[John Osen]

I don't like Jurgens' Thor or anything else he has ever written. Let the flaming begin. ;) :p

[csGuy]

I had read the beginning of this run and thought it was spectacular, I dropped it after a year or so though, but all the BUZZZzzzz lately got me interested again!

I hope Dan keeps up this pace for the foreseeable future!

[Danilo Raul]

Consistence is the key.

Jurgens has done a terrific job because Qemas hasn't messed with him and has let him do his stories the way he wants, as long as Dan doesn't get fat and happy with the book i think we'll get a nice run even much better than his "Superman" work. Oh and the Lai brothers are gonna drawn this now? damn! there is a God after all.... :D

[Eschel]

When a title piques my interest like this, I usually try to tackle the back-issue bins for the issues that will allow me to catch up. Now, having said that, would a few of you mind giving me a recommendation for a starting point? I'd like to give the book a try but want have a reasonable starting point.

I know that Thor took over when Odin died(?). Might that storyline be a good starting point?

Thanks!

Eschel

[Mike Pawuk]

I like Dan's take on Thor and I think it's great that Marvel is collecting them as trades, too. I just wish Marvel would do the same for Walt Simonson's run from the 80s. I miss Beta Ray Bill. A cameo just isn't enough. :)

[beta-ray]

I picked up a few issues when Beta-Ray guested and found it to be wanting (when was that? A couple years ago?). He really didn't need to be in any of those stories and it really disappointed me (see my screen name). I picked up #50 and couldn't even read all of it.

I guess I am one of the few who doesn't appreciate it around here. Oh well.

[HulkSmashNow]

I dropped Thor as soon as Odin died. I knew this storyline, Thor being the ruler of Asgard and a more proactive god, was coming, and I didn't want to be around for it.

Every month Marvel loses business thanks to me dropping another title: Captain America, Iron Man, Thor, and God knows what next. If not for the rejuvenated Hulk, FF, Avengers, and Spidey, I wouldn't give Marvel the time of day.

Saying this, the current storyline in Thor is interesting and different, but just not my cup of tea.

[mojo]

Wow all the attention Thor is finally getting these days just has me dancing around like a sissy-girl !! It's about frickin' time that people started paying attention to this consistently high-quality read. Seiously though,it can't be said often enough how much of a great job Jurgens has been doing on the title !!!
And it's great to see so much positive response from all the Asgardianites out there. There haven't even been any marvel-basher posts on this topic yet !!!
So here's to years and years more of Jurgens writing Thor !!!!

[Dan20]

Jurgens' run had been off and on for me, but over the last year he's really come into his own on the book, and we're getting high-quality books very consistently.

My only hope is that we get a good reason for masses to be upset with Thor; I can understand fundamentalists and so on; but the average Joe should probably be pretty happy that no one's homeless, sick or starving. So I think we need some good reasons for people to oppose Thor aside from "let us make our own decisions!".

[shakey]

Thor hasn't been this good in years. Jurgens is writing a great, unpredictable story arc that keeps your attention through every page.

Thor should be a MAX title. It could really be a
great fantasy/superhero book that could take advantage of a "Heavy Metal" presentation...but I'm just rambling, back to more Ultimate talk .

[Spikey_Jim]

It's always good to know that in these days of core Marvel books turning to arse in front of our faces, that Thor remains in capable hands. While Iron Man has never, ever been worse than it is today, and Captain America becomes a pin up book, Thor is at it's best ever.

Lets hope it stays this way...

Spikey_Jim

[samnoir]

Hmmm. Not a big fan of Jurgan's work by any stretch, and the only Thor I've ever really enjoyed is Warren Ellis' very brief four issue run.

This does sound interesting enough for me to take a look at.

I've actually always been convinced that Neil Gaiman would be the perfect writer for Thor. More so now after reading his novel American Gods.

I also was really quite amused by Alan Moore's comedic take on the Norse Gods in the pages of Top Ten.

________________________


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[howler]

thor is probably the best written marvel book and the least appreciated. What jurgens has done with this book is astonishing.He truly has taken the title character to places no other writer has dared to. after the lee and kirby run what happened to thor and a lot of other marvel books for years was just a contintuation of every creative team just doing lee and kirby. even simonson's run was a homage to lee and kirby. Jurgens has so changed the character,as miller did with Daredevil that the next creative tea,lets hope not for a while, will have no choice but t continue in the same direction,no way will they every be able to go back to the lee and kirby thor!

[Elayne Riggs]

[quote]Originally posted by Aaron Weisbrod:
<strong>Great article! :D </strong><hr></blockquote>

There was an article? All I noticed were those pretty pictures my husband inked. ;)

- Elayne

[Elayne Riggs]

[quote]Originally posted by Fetsur:
<strong>They ought to do Superman like this.</strong><hr></blockquote>

They already have. Although I think Jurgens actually works better on Thor than on Superman. If you're going to write variations of people staring and pointing and exclaiming "Oh my, look at how godlike he is!" (at which Jurgens excels), you can carry it off much more smoothly if the character actually is a god. ;)

- Elayne

[Elayne Riggs]

[quote]Originally posted by Dan20:
<strong>My only hope is that we get a good reason for masses to be upset with Thor; I can understand fundamentalists and so on; but the average Joe should probably be pretty happy that no one's homeless, sick or starving. So I think we need some good reasons for people to oppose Thor aside from "let us make our own decisions!".</strong><hr></blockquote>

Isn't that a good enough reason? It's the old "bird in a gilded cage" trope. The classic internal confrontation between having a somewhat carefree life as a cared-for child or servant, or a harder life as a grown-up with personal responsibility and decision-making capability.

- Elayne

[Dave Phelps]

[quote]Originally posted by Eschel:
<strong>When a title piques my interest like this, I usually try to tackle the back-issue bins for the issues that will allow me to catch up. Now, having said that, would a few of you mind giving me a recommendation for a starting point? I'd like to give the book a try but want have a reasonable starting point.

I know that Thor took over when Odin died(?). Might that storyline be a good starting point?

Thanks!

Eschel</strong><hr></blockquote>

IIRC, most of the run to date (up to #45) is available in tpb form. But if you want to hunt down back issues... It depends on how far back you want to go:

#50 pretty much summarizes the key points to date so you can start there.

Otherwise, #45 was the first to be titled "Lord of Asgard" and works pretty well as a first issue.

#39-40 is the story where Odin dies and #41-44 is where Thor starts getting more power and assumes the throne.

#34-35 is the first indication that Thor would be taking over soon and it hinted at a rather ominous turn of events should that occur. #36-38 have hints in that direction as well.

Or you can go back to #1! :-) Don't know if I'd particularly recommend it though. #1-28 is basically Jurgens trying to channel Lee/Kirby and #29-32 is an attempt to channel Walt Simonson. It was okay stuff, but I had dropped the book until I saw the last few pages of #35. Now it's one of the few Marvels left on my "must keep buying" pile. :-)

Dave

[Dan20]

[quote]Originally posted by Elayne Riggs:
<strong>
Isn't that a good enough reason? It's the old "bird in a gilded cage" trope. The classic internal confrontation between having a somewhat carefree life as a cared-for child or servant, or a harder life as a grown-up with personal responsibility and decision-making capability.
- Elayne</strong><hr></blockquote>

While I see your point, I don't really think it's a good enough reason. If someone came to Earth and said that he was going to house the homeless and cure diseases, I'd be pretty happy. I'm not going to stand around and tell him to let the dying die because it's "our business". Wrong is wrong and we've got some good examples of injustice going around on this planet, and if a Thor came around and said that he was going to stop it, I wouldn't complain (I might complain about his methods, etc., but it would depend what those methods were).

Also, few people seem to have a problem with the idea of a Messiah coming around and making things right.

[Andrew D. Devenney]

Having just glanced through the dotcomics preview after reading this article, I have only one question:

What exactly did soon-to-be-NATO-and-European-Union-member Slovakia do to piss off Jurgens and Marvel editorial? The only thing more out of place to me would have been to write about Germany today as a military dictatorship--if only because I live in Germany right now.

Jesus. Don't show this issue to the Slovakian Embassy.

[cannon]

I'd just like to add my voice to the chorus. After a lackluster beginning on the title, Jurgens has really taken THOR to new and interesting places.

I don't think it's better than the Simonson or Kirby stuff, but it certainly ranks up there with it.

Still, to be honest, the prospect of Priest doing a fill-in issue is more exciting to me than Jurgens' output.

Jim Cannon

[Elayne Riggs]

[quote]Originally posted by Dan20:
<strong>While I see your point, I don't really think it's a good enough reason. If someone came to Earth and said that he was going to house the homeless and cure diseases, I'd be pretty happy. I'm not going to stand around and tell him to let the dying die because it's "our business".</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yes, but there would be plenty of people who'd say "what's the catch?" And I don't think you can deny that therein lies the stuff of some wonderful fiction. I think it's an interesting conflict to set up, and it works well even on stuff like old otherwise-campy Star Trek episodes.

[quote]<strong>Also, few people seem to have a problem with the idea of a Messiah coming around and making things right.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Sure, if it's their version of a Messiah. But let's take a real-life example of a messianic religion. Look at the varying reactions to Jesus from non-Christians, many of whom believe he was an okay prophet who said cool things that made a lot of sense, but nowhere near the Actual Messiah because if he were the A.M. all our problems would be solved.

Wherever you have people with strongly-held and ingrained belief systems, you're going to have conflict. Even if everyone in their heart essentially has the same wants and desires (health, happiness, etc.), they also have conflicting opinions on how civilization should go about achieving and fulfilling those desires. And conflict is what leads to good drama. I do think Jurgens is touching on a lot of this stuff very well; I read Thor and think "damn, that's pretty much along the lines of the way I'd want to write the book." So you know, Dan, if you want to take a breather for an issue or two... ;)

- Elayne

[Dan20]

[quote]Originally posted by Elayne Riggs:
<strong>Wherever you have people with strongly-held and ingrained belief systems, you're going to have conflict. Even if everyone in their heart essentially has the same wants and desires (health, happiness, etc.), they also have conflicting opinions on how civilization should go about achieving and fulfilling those desires. And conflict is what leads to good drama. I do think Jurgens is touching on a lot of this stuff very well
- Elayne</strong><hr></blockquote>

Oh, I definitely think the book has been excellent lately. I'm not really criticizing it at all.
My only problem was that scene where Jake Olsen talked to Balder or whoever and said "Don't you see what he's doing is wrong?" And I just thought....umm, why? I can certainly see a huge conflict arising, and that's where Jurgens is apparently going to take it. But I just didn't see why an ordinary guy would be off-put by the news that dying people were cured of a disease. ;)

[ElektraFirst]

[quote]Originally posted by Storm:
<strong>I've enjoyed watching the Enchantress eclipse Sif as Thor's romantic interest; something I've always wanted to see ever since I was a little kid!</strong><hr></blockquote>

Same here. I always thought they'd look good together. I hope to see a lot more interaction between her, Sif, Balder and the other more 'righteous' Asgardians. Could add some good drama. An Enchantress cover would be nice.

(deleted)